Windows 10: What You Need to Know

[Jimbuna]

Is anyone getting Microsoft pop up windows banging on about Win10 saying I should upgrade? I'm getting fed up seeing these pop ups badgering me to get Win10. :stare:

I will make my own mind up thank you, I don't need MS trying it on.

I get the pop up every day or so but keep selecting the reschedule option.

[AVGWarhawk]

I get the pop up when starting my work computer. I can not move to 10 on my work computer as our programs are not compatible as yet. I think we have to July to make final installation?

[HunterICX]

Is anyone getting Microsoft pop up windows banging on about Win10 saying I should upgrade? I'm getting fed up seeing these pop ups badgering me to get Win10. :stare:

I will make my own mind up thank you, I don't need MS trying it on.

Remove Update KB3035583 from the installed updates list in the Add/Remove programs list in Windows.

Then after restart if it prompts that, after that go to Windows update allow it to scan for Updates then you'll see the KB3035583 update being listed, right click it and tell it to Hide Update and it should never install again automaticly.

[STEED]

Remove Update KB3035583 from the installed updates list in the Add/Remove programs list in Windows.

Then after restart if it prompts that, after that go to Windows update allow it to scan for Updates then you'll see the KB3035583 update being listed, right click it and tell it to Hide Update and it should never install again automaticly.

Done, I also switched my updates to tell me first so I can decide what to install.

I also deleted this hidden folder installed on July 10th $Windows.~BT size 6.37 GB (6,850,966,453 bytes) size on disk 4.85 GB (5,210,189,824 bytes) contains 17,010 Files, 3,602 Folders, Attributes Read only. Search the net and the info said this was pre Win10 installation files on stand by ready if I was going to upgrade.

I am not going to upgrade to Win10 and once this PC comes to the end of its life I will not be going with Microsoft anymore. Try something new for a change.

Came across a comment saying how to get rid of KB3035583 as said here plus this..

You might want to search for these updates as well
KB3068708, KB3022345, KB3075249,and KB3080149,
and uninstall these as well, as these are the ones
that Microsoft secretly included for Win 7, 8 and 8.1
so it can upload stuff to Microsoft just like Win 10 does.

I have all four on my system and a quick search seems to point to Microsoft gathering info spying, true or false?

[Jimbuna]

Upgraded to W10 yesterday and added Classic Shell and set Google as default search engine....no problems thus far.

[AVGWarhawk]

Upgraded to W10 yesterday and added Classic Shell and set Google as default search engine....no problems thus far.

You are now being stalked.

[Jimbuna]

You are now being stalked.

Yes, some would have me believe :)

[STEED]

You are now being stalked.

Yes, some would have me believe :)

Day and night all year round even when your on the bog. :arrgh!::ping::arrgh!:

[Onkel Neal]

Upgraded to W10 yesterday and added Classic Shell and set Google as default search engine....no problems thus far.

Don't go anywhere, I hope to have my first PC with Win 10 in a couple of weeks. :D

I want to make it as much like XP/Win7 as possible, unless some Win10 feature blows me away with how awesomely useful it is in comparison. I helped a friend a set up his PC last week, and Win 10 seemed to be less organized than Win7, but that was my first impression.

Meanwhile: Windows 10: Control Panel Set To Be Killed Off (http://www.inquisitr.com/2486744/windows-10-control-panel-set-to-be-killed-off/)

[Jimbuna]

I'm usually around here most days :03:

[STEED]

I'm usually around here most days :03:

Not good enough you should be on the case 24/7. :O:

Get your pubs and curry houses fitted with WIFI jim. :)

[Rockin Robbins]

Life has gotten much more complicated in the past several weeks. Not only is Windows 10 determined to be malware, but Microsoft is turning Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 into spyware as well. I just did my weekly research on what Microsoft is up to and it's really bad. Read this article (http://www.askwoody.com/tag/kb-2952664/) and contemplate. Don't worry, I've done due diligence to validate the news.

I have Windows 7 and am not interested in "upgrading" to 8, 8.1 or God forbid, 10. Here are the updates have come down the pike so far to snoop, download Windows 10 installer surreptitiously, or nag you against your will to install Windows 10 with awful and intrusive pop-ups which have really condescending come-ons. It's like they WANT us to hate them.

Updates relating to nag or install Windows 10 or spy on you as Windows 10 would. Remember, this is only pertaining to Windows 7. If you are unfortunate enough to have the cell phone operating systems 8 or 8.1 you'll have to consult the article above:

KB3055583
KB2976978
KB3050267
KB3068708
KB3022345
KB2952664
KB2977759
KB3075249
KB3080149
KB3090045

Some of these updates are duplicates to catch you if you deleted and hid the update that it reinstalls under another number, absolute proof of Microsoft's official function as malware pusher. This really stinks but so far it's manageable. When and if they roll up all this smelly stuff into a service pack there will be some hard decisions to make.

Each of these updates should be removed, a time intensive process as the update function has no search function (wouldn't want you deciding what you wanted your own computer to function like, would we?). Manual scanning and identification is what you're stuck with. Once they are all deleted you'll have to ask for available updates and hide each one so it doesn't do the zombie thing and return to haunt you.

The purpose of all this, and the dishonest Microsoft descriptions of the above updates is clearly to develop a trusting relationship with valued customers so they will be sure that Microsoft is trustworthy and there is nothing to be concerned with in installing Windows 10.

Had anyone said that Microsoft would resort to these sleazy tactics 10 years ago, he would have been called a lunatic. Now, not only does Microsoft do it and lie about it, but most people seem to be actually in favor of it. "Take my freedom, PLEASE!" Sorry, I choose not to participate.

[Rockin Robbins]

By the way, one of the things in the article above is a download for the GWX Control Panel. No, this will not help you control the Grey Wolves Extension for Silent Hunter 3, Microsoft has stolen the GWX label for its automated nagware/spyware program. Turns out you can use the trojan's settings against it and tell it to just go to sleep and not wake up. You do it with the GWX Control Panel.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/GWX%20Control%20Panel_zpsp2pnesx1.jpg (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/RockinRobbins13/media/Silent%20Hunter%204/GWX%20Control%20Panel_zpsp2pnesx1.jpg.html)

Now here's the GWX control panel after I destroyed the above "Dirty 10" upgrades. See it doesn't find GWX anywhere because it's been uninstalled. But it does find something very interesting: Windows 10 download folder found? YES. And it's 5.4 GB of crap I didn't ask for, downloaded on MY bandwidth without my consent and without even advising me that it was taking place. This is my work computer (read small hard drive) and 5.4 GB is NOT chicken feed here. Crap! Let's push the Open Folder button:

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/Windows%2010%20downloaded_zpstsgfw2ah.jpg (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/RockinRobbins13/media/Silent%20Hunter%204/Windows%2010%20downloaded_zpstsgfw2ah.jpg.html)

There it is, in its entirety, snuck onto my system by a trojan horse that if any other company did it they would have executives in prison. Nobody has the right to do that to my machine. If you're running GWX Control Panel, push the button to turn Operating System Upgrades off. Don't worry, you can still VOLUNTEER to upgrade your operating system, it just can't happen without your knowledge or consent now. No system functionality has been compromised.

Now to go delete that $Windows.~BT load of bull excrement. How much you want to bet there are some illegal characters in the folder name that make it impossible to delete? Here goes!

How can ANYBODY trust Microsoft with an operating system "upgrade" after all this? This makes Sony's 2005 rootkit look like a free game of tic-tac-toe.

Update: $Windows.~BT is a hidden directory of course because Microsoft wants you to know that they value you as a customer and informed consent is a hallmark of their respect for you and your property. Once I ran Windows Explorer as administrator, I was able to delete all of it except for a directory called Sources. It's chock full of subdirectories, but when you tunnel down they are full of .avi files and .mui files. I'm not going to make the rookie mistake of assuming these .avi files are harmless videos.

It's time to dig out the Ubuntu Live install disk. You can boot Linux right off the CD/DVD and Linux does not respect Microsoft's rules. It'll delete anything I tell it to. And, of course, as Microsoft amply proves, its rules are no longer worthy of respect.

[Jimbuna]

Don't go anywhere, I hope to have my first PC with Win 10 in a couple of weeks. :D

I want to make it as much like XP/Win7 as possible, unless some Win10 feature blows me away with how awesomely useful it is in comparison. I helped a friend a set up his PC last week, and Win 10 seemed to be less organized than Win7, but that was my first impression.

Meanwhile: Windows 10: Control Panel Set To Be Killed Off (http://www.inquisitr.com/2486744/windows-10-control-panel-set-to-be-killed-off/)

Forgot to mention, if you're currently using Google Chrome as your web browser be sure to export and save your bookmarks as an HTML file/document onto one of your hard drives.

[Onkel Neal]

Forgot to mention, if you're currently using Google Chrome as your web browser be sure to export and save your bookmarks as an HTML file/document onto one of your hard drives.

Ok, thanks for that tip. I'm nothing without my bookmarks. :ping:

[Jimbuna]

Ok, thanks for that tip. I'm nothing without my bookmarks. :ping:

I'm confident you're probably already aware but just in case not....

Top right of Chrome page 'Customise and control Google Chrome' click on that and move cursor down to 'Bookmarks' sub menu appears, choose 'Bookmark manager' click on that and a page opens, click on 'Organise' and a further sub menu appears, choose 'Export bookmarks to HTML file' and save wherever you want. I choose MyDocs on E drive.

It's a good idea to give the saved file a date so you can choose the latest selection should you ever want to import said file in the future.

[Rockin Robbins]

Whoever heard of surrepticiously installed crapware (Windows 10) you couldn't delete? Doesn't matter. Booted Ubuntu 15.04 Live CD. Chose Try Ubuntu, which lets you use Ubuntu without installing it. When the desktop came up clicked on the Nautilus file manager icon in the Unity launch bar. Selected OS disk (C: in Windows land), found the $Windows.~BT directory, pressed delete and a quarter second later it's all gone. No "you don't have permission" popup and no "you must have trusted installer's permission to delete this," Windows is not my mammy, the trojan the other trojan installed is gone forever.

Reboot into Windows and my work computer is once again mine. For now. Now I have to do the entire process for my home computer. Wonder if Win 10 lives there? If so, not for long.....

[Onkel Neal]

A Massive Windows 10 Update Is Coming: Here's What You Need To Know

http://www.ibtimes.com/massive-windows-10-update-coming-heres-what-you-need-know-about-windows-redstone-2139331

Man, I hope I a choose to download this when I am ready, not automatically; this could kill my montly bandwidh allotmet.

(Sorry, mykybaoad s actin up)

[Rockin Robbins]

If you're running Windows 7 there is another update you have to add to my "dirty 10" in order not to be retrofitted with Windows 10 spying tools and not to be pestered to update to Windows 10. Here's the updated list so far:
KB2952664 KB2976978 KB2977759 KB3022345 KB3050267 KB3055583 KB3068708 KB3075249 KB3080149 KB3083710 KB3090045

These updates' only function is either to spy on you and consume bandwidth tattling to Microsoft what you are doing with your computer, to download all of Windows 10 installation files (over 4 GB at your expense!) onto your computer without your knowledge or consent or just to bug you incessantly about why you haven't "upgraded" yet.

Aside: when you have a good product, do you have to plant spyware everywhere to promote it? Do you have to force customers to download it? Do you have to spy on customers who haven't chosen to "upgrade" yet? I am really crazy and definitely wrong, I guess, but I thought when you have a great product that people line up outside stores, camp out all night and fight each other to get in the door first to buy your product. What is Microsoft saying about what they think the quality of Windows 10 is by pursuing these malware/malicious methods to force you to adopt Windows 10? These ARE the exact behaviors you install antivirus, antimalware, firewalls and other tools to prevent, aren't they? I say resorting to these tactics is a tacit admission by Microsoft that "upgrading" is not in your best interest. It is an admission that they believe that without coercion, you will not buy this product, even for free.

Okay, you have Windows 7, you have the list, what do you do now? From your start menu (Windows 10 doesn't have a start menu, it has a billboard for ads) select Windows Update. On the left panel select View Update History. It will take a few minutes to load all the updates, so take a few minutes to marvel at the transparent, three dimensional program frame, the rounded corners, the tasteful and nuanced colors, the three dimensional buttons, all the great stuff you lose with Windows 10, nerfed in favor of garishness and brutish right angles and flatness not seen since Windows 2.0. Many DOS programs had superior UI to Windows 10 and hear the minions praise it! Windows 7 says Apple doesn't have the corner on art within a computer UI. Windows 10 says "we got nothin'"

Your updates should be loaded now. In the upper right hand corner is a search window. Type "KB295" and press search and you'll get a short list to pick your first "update" from. Right-click it on the list and select "uninstall." It will ask if you want to reboot and say "no." You'll reboot only after all have been uninstalled. Then type "KB297" and find and uninstall the next two. Go down the list until they are all uninstalled. Now you can reboot.

But these are zombies and they will return unless we defang Windows update. So do the Start Menu/Control Panel/Windows Update thing again and now we will be looking at the Windows Update home screen where it will tell you that you have a certain number of important updates and a certain number of optional updates available. Our job is to make the "dirty 11" unavailable.

So click on "xx important updates are available." There's your list. Scan it for members of the "dirty 11." When you find them, right click on each and select "hide update." Now go back and click on "xx optional updates are available" and do the same thing, hiding each update in the "dirty 11."

You have now reestablished ownership of your hardware! Congratulations and thank you for your vote for freedom over coercion. Government is not the only entity against which we must be on our guard. All large organizations with too much power are equally susceptible to corruption. All you socialists and lefties out there forget that applies to government. All you right wingers and free traders forget that applies to all corporations, labor unions, trade organizations and other private entities. Corruption respects nobody and loves it when we fight over things like government vs private enterprise, labor unions vs corporations and other artificial "struggles" which are entirely fraudulent. The real struggle is between right and wrong, respect and predation, income from serving others and income from preying on others, freedom and corecion. Nobody talks about that. Many pretend it is naive to think that way. They are wrong. This is reality.

[Rockin Robbins]

A Massive Windows 10 Update Is Coming: Here's What You Need To Know

http://www.ibtimes.com/massive-windows-10-update-coming-heres-what-you-need-know-about-windows-redstone-2139331

Man, I hope I a choose to download this when I am ready, not automatically; this could kill my montly bandwidh allotmet.

(Sorry, mykybaoad s actin up)
It's interesting that with Android I have the controls to update only on WiFi if I want, but with Windows 10 Home there is no such control. Updates are downloaded and installed when Windows decides you will.

I understand that with Windows 10 Pro versions you have some control over when updates and downloaded and installed. Apparently you cannot decide not to install them but have some control on when or how.

[AVGWarhawk]

I understand that with Windows 10 Pro versions you have some control over when updates and downloaded and installed. Apparently you cannot decide not to install them but have some control on when or how.

For some that is a good thing. I can say from experience that some just do not get a good grasp on computers. They use them but keeping the computer functional and up to date is a mystery to them. My W is one of them.

[Rockin Robbins]

For some that is a good thing. I can say from experience that some just do not get a good grasp on computers. They use them but keeping the computer functional and up to date is a mystery to them. My W is one of them.
And that is why it is so despicable that we can't trust Microsoft not to push advertising on her, spy on her, secretly download all the installation files to Windows 10 so that with a click she can get the whole dose of adware/spyware that it is. When 11 "updates" are not updates at all, but adware and spyware snuck onto our machines, Microsoft has roundly turned the corner from having our back to putting knives in it.

Until the "dirty 11" (so far) updates, Windows 7 was working for our benefit. We could trust that when we pushed the start menu we wouldn't be bombarded by animated rectangles hawking who knows what for us to buy. The start menu was to help us control our computers. No longer, with Windows 10. Now it's an advertising vector. How long before there's porn on there?

In the old days, with Microsoft's former definition of an update, putting Windows 7 on automatic update was a perfect solution for people like your wife. Now it's putting her out for the slaughter as Microsoft sells updates for whatever brings money their way, regardless of harm to customers.

How about a computer that kids also use. Click on a cool animated start menu tile and buy an Xbox game for an Xbox they don't even have for $50. There is so much potential for harm here. I don't want that stuff in my face. My operating system is not a vector for advertising that I can't shut off.

[Onkel Neal]

Have you investigated this?
http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10


Free antispy tool for Windows 10


O&O ShutUp10 means you have full control over which comfort functions under Windows 10 you wish to use, and you decide when the passing on of your data goes too far.

Using a very simple interface, you decide how Windows 10 should respect your privacy by deciding which unwanted functions should be deactivated.

O&O ShutUp10 is entirely free and does not have to be installed – it can be simply run directly and immediately on your PC. And it will not install or download retrospectively unwanted or unnecessary software, like so many other programs do these days!

[Rockin Robbins]

Have you investigated this?
http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
Pretty neat! Hope it does more than just work the controls Windows elected to give users. You can turn all those off and still give up twice daily info dumps to the Microsoft Server. I'll have a look!

Now I need a captive Windows 10 installation to play with. Virtualbox to the rescue!

I have used O & O Software products before and they were great quality.

[AVGWarhawk]

And that is why it is so despicable that we can't trust Microsoft not to push advertising on her, spy on her, secretly download all the installation files to Windows 10 so that with a click she can get the whole dose of adware/spyware that it is. When 11 "updates" are not updates at all, but adware and spyware snuck onto our machines, Microsoft has roundly turned the corner from having our back to putting knives in it.

Until the "dirty 11" (so far) updates, Windows 7 was working for our benefit. We could trust that when we pushed the start menu we wouldn't be bombarded by animated rectangles hawking who knows what for us to buy. The start menu was to help us control our computers. No longer, with Windows 10. Now it's an advertising vector. How long before there's porn on there?

In the old days, with Microsoft's former definition of an update, putting Windows 7 on automatic update was a perfect solution for people like your wife. Now it's putting her out for the slaughter as Microsoft sells updates for whatever brings money their way, regardless of harm to customers.

How about a computer that kids also use. Click on a cool animated start menu tile and buy an Xbox game for an Xbox they don't even have for $50. There is so much potential for harm here. I don't want that stuff in my face. My operating system is not a vector for advertising that I can't shut off.

Fortunately my W does everything on her Android phone. That is a whole other story. :rotfl2:

[HW3]

http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-upgrade-nags-become-more-aggressive-offer-no-opt-out/

:/\\!!

[STEED]

So much for freedom of choice. :nope:

MS is clearly getting worrying the way this is going.

[aanker]

For Win 7 users who were surprised to see the Win 10 'Upgrade now' nag icon reappear after Tuesday's monthly patch release, uninstall the KB3035583 update.

It took one hour and deleted 1,365 MB of the files that Microsoft had installed on my computer to prepare it for a quick transition.

I realize I am in the minority, however I like and want to stay with Win 7. I posted this in case there are other people who like their Windows 7 operating system.

Hope this is helpful information for someone.

[STEED]

A friend I know has Win7 on a notebook and has been very lucky not a jot of Win10 nagware or spyware lucky sod.

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, my Dell Inspiron laptop has not seen anything about Win 10 either. I plan to keep this laptop with Win7, my new one will have Win10.

[aanker]

If you're running Windows 7 there is another update you have to add to my "dirty 10" in order not to be retrofitted with Windows 10 spying tools and not to be pestered to update to Windows 10. Here's the updated list so far:
KB2952664 KB2976978 KB2977759 KB3022345 KB3050267 KB3055583 KB3068708 KB3075249 KB3080149 KB3083710 KB3090045
Hey RR, thanks for the detailed instructions on the other 10 to delete - I got 1 yesterday and posted because I missed your two posts here on pp 18.
-
Edit:
Please see Rockin Robbins' posts on pp 18, specifically post #'s: 263 & 270 for a good walk-through of how to proceed and what updates to delete if you like Windows 7.
Post # 264 may be of interest too.

All I can say is Wow!

This Microsoft sneaking Win 10 on to my computer was worse than I expected; 11 files (so far) and over 2,7126 MB deleted.

[STEED]

Is there a site that lists all KB numbers that are spyware and nagware win10 for the last three years to present?

[Onkel Neal]

For Win 7 users who were surprised to see the Win 10 'Upgrade now' nag icon reappear after Tuesday's monthly patch release, uninstall the KB3035583 update.

It took one hour and deleted 1,365 MB of the files that Microsoft had installed on my computer to prepare it for a quick transition.

I realize I am in the minority, however I like and want to stay with Win 7. I posted this in case there are other people who like their Windows 7 operating system.

Hope this is helpful information for someone.

Thanks, it is. :up:

[Rockin Robbins]

The GWX program is a drone. On some computers it sits and does nothing. My wife's computer has not had a single pop-up about Windows 10. However, mine has gone bonkers. GWX communicates with the mother ship and receives instructions that activate its functions and then it does whatever Microsoft tells it to and when it tells it to. GWX is one sophisticated piece of malware.

But I'm here with some NEW news. And you wouldn't believe it if I said it (flame wars would result!http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/shootingsmilie.gif (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/RockinRobbins13/media/smileys/shootingsmilie.gif.html) "Rockin's off his rocker!!!"), so I didn't say it but Microsoft has admitted that a bug in Windows Update has led to some Windows 7 and 8.1 computers automatically starting the upgrade to Windows 10 without ever asking the user for permission. (http://www.digitaljournal.com/technology/microsoft-automatically-upgrading-pcs-to-windows-10-a-mistake/article/446745)

The debacle continues. The only motivation for the craziness that makes ANY sense is that someone at Microsoft wants us to hate them. This is ineptitude on an unimaginable level. Legitimate profits are the result of people seeking out your product, voluntarily paying the price to purchase it and then with a big grin bragging to all their friends how great the purchase was.

[Rockin Robbins]

@aanker, thanks for the attaboy. With what I've had to say here and some of the reactions here I sometimes think that I'm not doing something worthwhile by sounding the alarm. Yeah, I read all those Chicken Little stories and didn't want to grow up to be him. But this is too real for me to be able to keep my mouth shut.

@Steed to the best of my knowledge there is no such site. The logical person to keep such a database, Mark Russonovich, was actually hired by Microsoft, and so won't be doing any such thing. I hope he's screaming his head off about their coercive tactics though and I bet he is.

Microsoft is really commiting suicide here. When you lose the trust of potential customers you lose your business. It takes years to build trust and you can lose all of it in a day. Walmart is a perfect example as its image is in a horrific downhill death spiral which will be nearly impossible to stop.

When the goal of a business ceases to be service to its customers and becomes the immediate bottom line by any means possible, that business is toast. Dollars are the product of service, not an end unto themselves.

[STEED]

Dam..:/\\!!

Just have to go though them all and see what info I find, as for these new nasty KB's keep posting about them. :up:

[Rockin Robbins]

Apparently I'm not the only one marvelling that I have to say such unbelievably outlandish things and checking my facts carefully to see if I need my tin foil hat.

Microsoft stays tightlipped as the world rages (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/analysis/2425886/windows-10-updategate-microsoft-stays-tightlipped-as-the-world-rages#)



This is big. It's important. It's either the end of Microsoft or the willing surrender of all customer rights that Americans and the rest of the world have felt entitled to up to this point. It's amazing that this farcical situation is reality and would be very difficult to overstate how predatory Microsoft's actions have been.


Trust them on Windows 10? When submarines have screen doors. An entire operating system as a trojan horse? Not only yes, but HELL yes. We live in interesting times!

[aanker]

Apparently I'm not the only one marvelling that I have to say such unbelievably outlandish things and checking my facts carefully to see if I need my tin foil hat.

Microsoft stays tightlipped as the world rages (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/analysis/2425886/windows-10-updategate-microsoft-stays-tightlipped-as-the-world-rages#)

This is big. It's important....
Thanks - good read. Keep 'em coming : ) I like the part where it says a writer on "Infoworld" wrote, "It's unlikely that Microsoft's pushing files onto Windows 7 machines."

The fact that some people were 'accidentally' changed to Win 10 by Microsoft - who claim it was not intentional, was a good read too.

Win 10 is all about 'Data Mining' on a personal level for targeted advertising, and quite possibly the NSA isn't complaining too loud about it either.

'This IS big' - my hat isn't tin foil, it's made out of a device scotch-taped onto a childhood newspaper hat.

[Rockin Robbins]

It's amazing to me the extent to which the independent computer geek press is completely drinking Microsoft's peculiar Kool-Aid. They seem willing to engage in some kind of cover-up for Microsoft's benefit.

Remember that the question is "will Microsoft survive" not "are we going to lose computing as we know it." We'll be fine whether Microsoft is looking out for our interests or someone else like Canonical does. We win no matter how this turns out. Either Microsoft has completely lost its moral bearings and dies a well deserved death, it gets new management who value and respect customers as the ones from whom all prosperity flows, this only matters to the fate of Microsoft. We're going to be just fine.

[andy_311]

I'm just pondering, I have windows 10 and got rid of some of the "spyware" that has been mentioned here or at least disabled them but am having some difficulty disabling 2 which are wsappx and runtimebroker.exe both are to do with windows store which read what apps you got on your pc and sends the info to Microsoft they can be stopped but can't be disabled permantly as the services in admin tools are grey out. anyone here know how to stop them.

[Onkel Neal]

hi Andy, maybe this will help with the runtime exe
http://www.tenforums.com/network-sharing/7907-runtime-broker-process.html

[andy_311]

thank you Neal worked a treat.

[Skybird]

Microsoft has me up in full arms. With their overstepping of red lines regardign enforced updating to W10, they finally loaded up the last straw that made the camel's back break. I have started to gain the needed education on Linux to set up at least a dual boot machine, maybe even two machines, one for games and just games, and the other for Linux, surfing, and things I consider to be too sensible as if I would want have Microsoft being involved in it.

If I would speak Russian, I maybe would try to get a Russian OS. :)

However. These days I am more active in the forums of Kunos Simulazioni (Assetto Corsa) and Sector3 (Raceroom), and since the Kunos forums need game-account based subscription, I cannot take it for granted that most people here can get access to it. I thus quote some posts of mine in full, just copying them over.


Is anyone here running AC successfully on Linux, in a Virtual Machine or in any other way?

I am so pissed by the criminal and law-breaking ruthlessness by which MS tries to enforce W10 onto people who even actively set their systems to not accepting it, and now even delivers updates that install the data-kraken-functionality of W10 into W7 and W8 for busers who thought they were safe if not accepting W10 updates. Also, that the many spying channels of W10 cannot be reliably shut down and Micrsoft actively hinders people to do so by threatening technical malfunctions if they do so, or when users use to clean registry entries that help in supporting temporarily but frequently installed data extractors on the HD - and that they as aggressively push for using the cloud so that all what you do ends up on servers located in the NSA's backyard: all this pisses me big time. George Orwell's vision was naive, compared to the vision of Microsoft et.al. , they are the wet dream of the Stasi and Gestapo - and you guys even voluntarily expose yourself to it!? They really want to shove this piece of spyware down our throats NO MATTER WHAT, and for me this is finally the one last straw that breaks the camel's back. W7 will be my last OS by Microsoft, and I have started to study the needed knowledge to migrate to an alternative to Microsoft once W7 has reached the end of its usability. At least I will have two systems in the near future. One exclusively for games and nothing else, and often physically disconnected from the internet whenever the game allows to be played offline, and another platform with Linux or something. Personal data files I do no longer maintain on a computer since years already, and so my only concern left is banking, since more and more banks indicate they plan to push people for exclusive online banking usage, making offline banking more and more expensive, even taking it out of service.

The world is a mental asylum, and it turns worse every month.

So again my question: is there any example of anyone who successfully runs AC on a non-Windows system? Offline, of course, considering Steam. Can it be technically done, via VM or in any other fashion?

P.S. Before you call me a conspiration theorist, google for the problem of enforced W10 migration and according updates that cannot be deinstalled, or reinstall themselves even if you ban them from doing so. Its no joke, and it is no minor nuisance. Microsoft takes very aggressive and deliberate actions here to get its way and make people want what MS thinks they should and must and have to want. Its about profling, the crystal clear consumer, marketing and advertising, selling profiles and making profits with that, and obeyiond the NSA that sues trhe global spreaidng of Microsoft software as one opf its major tools to enforce access to where ever it wants and to whomever it wants. In the main its business - and YOU and all your private life is the item that gets traded.

Also keep in mind that W10 enforces the ordinary user to accept all Windows updates that Microsoft labels in all its wisdom and reasonability as "important" , you can no longer delay them, chose, deselect some, get some research done before installing a critical one, and so on. If you ever had installed faulty Windows Updates and ran into a busy day while trying to repair the damage (happend twice to me, since then Auto Updates are switched off on my system), you might see why I have an issue with that.You are completely at their mercy - and thy have repeatedly demonstrated in the past that they are neither pefect, nor inerrant. If the bring a faulty or dangerous update out, you cannot escape to get tackled by it, it is like a firewall being forced to switch itself off so that hackers can have their easy fun with you.

(...)


Those who cannot value freedom, will carelessly trade it away. And I think they even do not deserve freedom, it is pearls before the swines. When they have lost it, they will care for it. But then it is too late.

Its about your data on your for example health, food habits, private things you give away - being out there and being a wanted treasury for employers. Insurances. Government offices. And they will go after it, no matter what some naive laws and rules say.

Every data that can be used against you one day, will be used against you. The sky is the limit. Compared to that, targetted advertisement bombing and overwatching your consuming habits and movement patterns, all this automatically, stored forever, beyond your control is just an annoyance. But annoying it is nevertheless. Once you do not get a job, or are rejected by an insurance, and are not given a desperately needed credit - maybe that then will make you think instead of giggling. http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/styles/default/xenforo/clear.png What technically can be done, will be done - that is something like a natural law in progress and future'S development. First illegally maybe, and then it will get legalised afterwards. But getting done it will be, no matter what.

Would anyone of you not mind if cameras and microphones get installed in your flat? Oh wait, I forgot many people watch container TV a la Big Brother and voluntarily post themselves half naked in "social media". Okay. My fault. How could I ever come to care or worry...

(...)
And the one I am really after when replying in here at Subsim:

Sorry for returning to it once more, but this is not really unimportant: 4-5 days ago (I learned just today) thousands of users in the US have been assaulted (there is no other word for it) by a Windows Update that changed registry entries once again (even one that is deliberately left by a third-party tool designed to prevent GWX-driven update launch)and ended by leaving these users with only the choice to accept the update or a deadlocked system. Microsoft calls this, like several of its other attacks before, a "mistake", a mishap and error, claiming it was unintentional. But you see, Microsoft happens to suffer so many mistakes recently, all of them opportunistically chosen, it seems, all of them helping Microsoft to get its way, and bypassing user's rejection of W10. The excuse made, that is was just due to an error, is not believable. Its bullying by them, plain and simple.

BTW, GWX means "Get Windows X" (not to be mistaken with the mod for Silent Hunter). If you have an icon named like this on your system but do not intend to go with W10 right now, your alarm bells should now ring DEFCON-1 and you should realise that you already are in the decisive last battle of the war - and that you can still prevent W10 is no certainty any more from here on.

I recommend this reading which includes a link to said tool - it must be run EVERY time you have activated and run Windows Updates, since Microsoft just has demonstrated to have full access to your computer and being able to alter its registry entries in any way they want.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/29...pgrade-block-settings-are-still-in-force.html (http://www.infoworld.com/article/2993835/microsoft-windows/check-that-your-windows-10-upgrade-block-settings-are-still-in-force.html)

Then google a bit by using this search string "Windows 10 enforced update"

Finally, follow the advise here:

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/04/17/how-to-remove-windows-10-upgrade-updates-in-windows-7-and-8/

Note that Microsoft deliberately attacks tips and routines like described here, you may find that some of the updates mentioned for deletion cannot be deleted on your system anymore. In this case, find and download an old tool called "XPantispy", a reliable and classic tool whose author already thought he would go as a pensioner, but is so angry about Microsoft'S crossing of red lines that he has announced to update it after years of hybernation and to make it fit to easily clo9se all those privacy holes in the registry that W10 leaves users vulnerable to. By using that tool, seal your system off and switch off all channels by which the OS contacts the web automatically, from Windows Updates over error notifications to time synchronization - EVERYTHING. Make those settings a profile. Then try to deinstall the critical updates again, reboot, and see whether they are gone. For me, they were gone this way. And only in this way.

Next, you need to check whether the several GB-heavy hidden W10 isntallation f iles already have infiltrated lyur system without your knowledge. Make sure that hidden folders are being displayed, then have a system search for $Windows.~BT. On my W7x64 OS, the place it showed up in was in the Windows folder, other users said they found it at the root of their drive c:\ You need Admin rights to delete it. - Interesting: I NEVER gave consent to get lined up in queue and get a copy of W10 "reserved", never, nowhere. Still I got this junk forced onto my HD in the background, without any notification. I love it when I delivered something that I enver wanted, and aft5erwards getting told that they are just doing what I told them what I want. The arrogance of getting told this lie into my face, is infuriating.

Next, reboot, use a standard profile in XPantispy that opens Windows Updates again, switch off automatic update search, switch off that optional recommended updates get installed just like security updates, and laucnh the search process ,anually (ALWAYS do that manually, ALWAYS!). The critical updates probably pop up again. Rightclick on them, and then chose them for being supressed in any further update search runs. If no security updates need to be done, break off here, and then chose the XPantispy rifle that seals your system again, shutting down the Windows Update Routine alltogether.

This compares to not leaving your front door open and hoping that no bad guy sneaks in but only the good guys do, but to keep it closed and locked and only open it manually at a time of your chosing, with you beign on your guard and overwatching the scene and process. W10 standard ediitons makes htis impossible, btw. You get all updates enforced onto you immediately whenever the wise super mind in Redmont decides that you should get it. Of course they claim its for your own good and that it is about making the world a safer place and blah and blöah and bölah.What it really is about is making you even more defenseless to them.

---
For IT professionals and thos eusing comouters for a living, rejecting W10 right now has some more validity than "just" privacy concerns and being pissed about Microsoft no longer just being enthusiastic in advertising its OS, but clearly overstepping red lines and getting away with it, you may consider these arguments as well:

WHY DID YOU WRITE THIS PROGRAM?
I use my main desktop PC (http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/06/building-new-computer-for-music.html) for music production, and at the moment some applications and hardware that are critical to my work either have known compatibility issues (http://amzn.to/1O21elL) with, or flat-out don't work (http://amzn.to/1KwbTpL) in Windows 10- so I'm sticking with Windows 7 until I'm reasonably confident my stuff will still function correctly after I upgrade. While I don't have any general negative opinions on Microsoft or Windows 10, I found the Get Windows 10 app's relentless upgrade reminders absolutely infuriating because there was no obvious way to stop them. Of course I found some solutions online (of wildly varying complexity and efficacy), but I had a bigger problem...

You see, I also had a lot of friends and family with Windows 7 and Windows 8 on their computers who were also continually pestered by the Get Windows 10 app- and I wanted to give them a solution that was literally so easy my mom could do it. None of the tutorials I'd seen about how to deal with the app are what I'd consider novice-friendly, whereas GWX Control Panel is a one-click solution.

Maybe my recipe list is not the best-structured out there, but you should be able to find just any other, any better, if just playing with search terms yourself and setting time-limits for results of not longer than one year. Its a very hot topic out there, practically every tech magazine and blog writes about it. Since April last year.


Hope one day somebody will hack a predator drone and make it bomb the MS HQ at Redmont, flattening it. It took me years to overcome my laziness and comfortable easiness, but Microsoft has finally succeeded in making even lazy me turning my back on them. I'm done with them. Congrats, MS! I think never before have you managed to make yourself so many new hostile new "friends" in such a short period of time. Hide and rot in that dark hole where the sun never shines.

[Skybird]

P.S. Another nice thing is that recently we learned that the criticised privacy intrusion routines and data-krakening things that W10 does (and that not all can be switched off via options available to the user via the OS interface), now are being delivered to W8 and W7 users as well, dressed as unsuspicious ordinary Windows Updates. Nice move there, MS, all inhibitions have gone amiss.

[Fubar2Niner]

P.S. Another nice thing is that recently we learned that the criticised privacy intrusion routines and data-krakening things that W10 does (and that not all can be switched off via options available to the user via the OS interface), now are being delivered to W8 and W7 users as well, dressed as unsuspicious ordinary Windows Updates. Nice move there, MS, all inhibitions have gone amiss.


Any info on the KB numbers Skybird?

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[STEED]

Any info on the KB numbers Skybird?

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

This thread has some of those nasty KB numbers mentioned. I have turned off my auto updates out right and do it all manually now. I was angry at MS dumping that sodding Win10 BT folder on my system without telling me and their sodding pest pop ups "It's in your best interest to upgrade to Win10" clear off I will make my own mind up which I did. Got rid their win10 nagware/spyware and as I may have said here once my PC comes to the end I will not be buying another Windows system no way.

[Fubar2Niner]

This thread has some of those nasty KB numbers mentioned. I have turned off my auto updates out right and do it all manually now. I was angry at MS dumping that sodding Win10 BT folder on my system without telling me and their sodding pest pop ups "It's in your best interest to upgrade to Win10" clear off I will make my own mind up which I did. Got rid their win10 nagware/spyware and as I may have said here once my PC comes to the end I will not be buying another Windows system no way.

Yep done and done STEED, I also choose which to u/d, but this sounds like a new 'threat' from MS. Any extra info about hidden crap is always welcome mate.

[STEED]

Yep done and done STEED, I also choose which to u/d, but this sounds like a new 'threat' from MS.

The more they get pushy and nasty their true colour's will be all to see.

[Skybird]

Any info on the KB numbers Skybird?

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner
For W7, the new threat seems to include KB 3068708, KB3022345, KB3075249, and KB3080149. I do not have the links to the sites on these anymore, sorry. But Google is your friend.

The older threat is (for W7) KB2952664 (which really can be a pest to remove, it seems to be linked to having tried early installation of W8 on W7 systems already), and then KB3021917, and KB3035583.

I made notes on these in my tiny black book of codes and passwords, but without further explanation, so I cannot tell you exactly what they eahc do,m but when I read about it, these were the ones that were quoted time and again.

KB2952664 seems to have been released by MS severla times in variedf forms, so that an early blocking of this KB number by the user was ignored and got the later version installed. You may need to uninstall it uzp to 5 times. For some, even this did not help.

POleas enote that the siuaiton is extremely difficult and complex, and that there is not one all-cases-included guaranteed fail-safe method to get rid of all this. Many people learn that they cannot get rid of it at all.

For Windows 8 users, it is other updates. One of the links I gave in the quoted original posting, does list some of them, and lists the W7 codes, too.

I have read ten days or two weeks ago on a German tech site , that after a blazing start, W10 distribution has stalled and stagnated. MS was extremely, overly aggressive with W10 from all beginning on, also its super-aggressive pushing of people to use cloud servers and that way expose themselves even further to US server storage and all the risks related to that. If the reports on stagnating W10 distributions are correct, this brutality by MS trying to bully its way through user's lines of resistance, may be a sign of growing desperation. Who cares. A company not listening to people since years and years, instead expecting that people have to want what for the sake of Microsoft's interest people should need to want, does not deserve success or acceptance.

In my opinion, honestly said, they are a case for the state attorney. Parts of what they try in stunts and infiltration tactics, crosses the red line to fraud and coercion (as a legal term).

I strictly recommend now to have all channels to Microsoft shut down and locked, and run Windows Update NEVER in automatic mode, but to manually open the needed service for it, manually search for updates, carefully checking the KB numbers for suspicious candidates, and not before then allow the rest to install. I recommend to completely pass on ALL just optional or recomme3nded updates. Do not use automatic updates anymore. Well, I said what is to be said in the third quoted post.

Have a delay between rerlease of updates every second Tuesday in the month, and the time you install them. Let some weeks pass, 3-4 weeks, so that the tech gurus have time to stumble over and release information on any new traps MS sets up for the unaware user.

Whats more: do not buy Microsoft products anymore, and do not use their tools and services. Boycott them. Sometimes that is uncomfortable, for example Microsoft Word still is the better word editor than Open Office (not very ergonomic interface) or Libre Office (not as powerful), and still: do not surrender this trump card to them - by supporting them by supporting their software. There are useful alternatives to practically every Microsoft software out there.

Another thing that one should worry about when supporting W10: Microsoft planning to close the app market for third party distributors. They are in the powerful seat needed to do that right now already, the only thing that holds them back is corporation customers, and the fear of a public uproar over this then-monopoly. Does this not make you frown?

P.S., Fubar, I think it is possible that I messed up my memory there. The 4 KB numbers I gave you could be related to not the newest threat that you asked about, but to the already known one as well. Sorry. Fact is I no longer know it exactly, I'm not certain. I kept no written explanations on the numbers, just the numbers themselves, in case I reinstall W7 again one day (hope this even works anymore !?).

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

I've been getting that frackin' GWX.exe crap for sometime now in the form of KB3035583. I uninstalled the update only to have Dicrosoft (what I call Microsoft now), ninja install the same KB3035583 update again even after I blocked it. I honestly don't know what the hell the execs at Microsoft where smoking when they came up with this over the top agro marketing campaign to get people to either switch to or buy Win10. They never did that with Win7 or 8, so why do it with Win10? I think Microsoft is really shooting themselves in the foot with this idea and what's the point of forcing consumers to "upgrade from a previous OS that are still fairly new and aren't total bugfests, I mean Win7 isn't perfect but it was a good replacement for XP while Win10 sounds like a repackaged version of Vista.

[STEED]

I was emailed this by a friend, a tool to remove Win10 nagware.

http://win10wiwi.com

A question crossed my mind, why do I have to send them my email address? :hmmm:


BTW: I don't need it I got rid of all that Win10 nag/spyware and all the rest of it.

[aanker]

If you like Windows 7, Rockin Robbins has an excellent walk-through in this Topic on pp 18 post #270 detailing how to remove the 11 suspicious Microsoft updates that install some Win 10 'compatibility files' that then nag you to get Win 10, what their numbers are, and how to keep them from coming back.

I also disabled my 'auto update' and 'download but do not install until I'm ready' options and selected, 'don't download anything from MS update'.

Updates are usually released the second Tuesday of every month and I have always manually selected and installed their updates on that Tue, however now I will carefully research each one first.

Be very careful installing any software that is offered by 3rd party's that claim to remove the Win 10 nag screen icon. Always ask yourself, "is it also a virus or malware?" It is easy to follow Robbins' walk-through and do it yourself, plus you won't have that 3rd party tool to remove if it is even legit in the first place.

You can always upgrade to Win 10 whenever you want, but be aware that the free version of Win 10 will be a step down from your Win 7 version. Win 7 Home Premium will 'upgrade' to Win 10 Home for example:
http://www.cnet.com/news/which-edition-of-windows-10-will-you-get-for-free/

I'm checking back here in this Topic and other places before I install the upcoming Nov 10th Windows 7 updates though. There may be another one or two to add to the 'dirty 11'.

I understand that many people do like Windows 10, which is nice for them. More power to you users, glad you like it.

Happy Hunting!

[Skybird]

If you like Windows 7, Rockin Robbins has an excellent walk-through in this Topic on pp 18 post #270 detailing how to remove the 11 suspicious Microsoft updates that install some Win 10 'compatibility files' that then nag you to get Win 10, what their numbers are, and how to keep them from coming back.

I also disabled my 'auto update' and 'download but do not install until I'm ready' options and selected, 'don't download anything from MS update'.

Updates are usually released the second Tuesday of every month and I have always manually selected and installed their updates on that Tue, however now I will carefully research each one first.

Be very careful installing any software that is offered by 3rd party's that claim to remove the Win 10 nag screen icon. Always ask yourself, "is it also a virus or malware?" It is easy to follow Robbins' walk-through and do it yourself, plus you won't have that 3rd party tool to remove if it is even legit in the first place.

You can always upgrade to Win 10 whenever you want, but be aware that the free version of Win 10 will be a step down from your Win 7 version. Win 7 Home Premium will 'upgrade' to Win 10 Home for example:
http://www.cnet.com/news/which-edition-of-windows-10-will-you-get-for-free/

I'm checking back here in this Topic and other places before I install the upcoming Nov 10th Windows 7 updates though. There may be another one or two to add to the 'dirty 11'.

I understand that many people do like Windows 10, which is nice for them.

Nice, the more info and expoerience on KBs get distrubuted, the better. However, I disagree with your last point:

More power to you users,
No, it is about LESS power to the people.

What you and me now do, switching off updates and choose them manually, is no longer possible under W10, for example, as long as you do not go into the quite expensive higher corporation builds. Also, many options in W10 deceive the customer/user and try to lure him into cloud storage and cloud processing - and what user has power over what gets done in the cloud with his data?

Some people do not care. Some believe in cheap word and glossy paper prospects. Both will not learn until they get hit hard themselves.

Maximum caution and suspicion when dealing with Microsoft. That is the only reasonable option. Everything else is: gamble and pray.

[Skybird]

I've been getting that frackin' GWX.exe crap for sometime now in the form of KB3035583. I uninstalled the update only to have Dicrosoft (what I call Microsoft now), ninja install the same KB3035583 update again even after I blocked it. I honestly don't know what the hell the execs at Microsoft where smoking when they came up with this over the top agro marketing campaign to get people to either switch to or buy Win10. They never did that with Win7 or 8, so why do it with Win10? I think Microsoft is really shooting themselves in the foot with this idea and what's the point of forcing consumers to "upgrade from a previous OS that are still fairly new and aren't total bugfests, I mean Win7 isn't perfect but it was a good replacement for XP while Win10 sounds like a repackaged version of Vista.
I could not get rid of it before using XPantispy and switching off all internet-linking backgroudn services as described earlier. I also needed cold reboots with power off.

As long as I keep it that way, all the I think 7 updates I mentioned do not appear on my HD. Once I switch on these background tasks, even with Windows Update still switched off, a few minutes later I get some of those updates back, and then must manually deinstalled them again with all channels sealed off first.

I am 100% certain that Microsoft pushes some of this stuff not just via official Windows Update service, but by abusing other background tasks for bringing it onto people'S HDs. Which as the hacking that this is, imo is the last hint needed to show that they indeed act and behave criminally.

So switch off automatic clock synchronization and whatever other services there are that are not really needed.

People understanding German a bit, can get the last version of XPantispy for W7. Its years old, but works well, and comfortably. Don't be afraid of it being malware or such. It is a true classic here in German-speaking Europe, and was trusted for years and years and over all versions of Windows since 2000, I already used it myself under XP. W8 and W10 support has started to be worked on, but it could still be some time until release.

http://xp-antispy.org/download/

Last version is from 2011 I think, 3.98.2

[aanker]

Skybird, there are folks I know who really do like Win 10. I don't want to, and it is not my intention to insult anyone.

The expression, "more power to you" is an expression that doesn't apply to my feelings about user power and operating systems.

In the US the expression means something like, "if that is your choice, fine, and good luck with that decision" to 'the person' being addressed.

Occasionally I forget that words & 'common phrases' mean different things in different country's - especially if English is the second language. Sorry for the misunderstanding .... if there was one.
----------
Back on topic:
I wonder if re-installing Win 7 on a blank HD would work for those unhappy with their move to Win 10?? One would need to get the drivers necessary for their computer, and burn them to a DVD first.

A friend just had his computer buddy re-install Win 7 to his computer after saving his heavily modded SH4 configuration first. His computer buddy lives in Philadelphia though, and I don't. :wah:

I hope that it is possible, because about six months ago I bought a Win 7 install disk for my next computer .... lol. Probably just wasted my money that I could have donated to Subsim ; )

Thanks for the new KB numbers Mister!

Happy Hunting!

[DragonRider]

Still Running Windows 10 and after one month all is still good.
No problems of compatibility with any programs I run.
But I do not like the Edge browser so I use Firefox instead :hmmm:.

No drama to report :yeah:

[Rockin Robbins]

Just read an article by Susan Bradley, owner of WinSecrets website. Here's the complete article (http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/attempting-to-answer-whether-ms-is-snooping/), and it has some interesting things to say about why we should insist on knowing the details of what information Microsoft (or any other company) is collecting, why "everyone is doing it" is not a good reason to roll over and play dead, and even more interesting, what you can do with Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and Windows 10 to keep Microsoft from calling the Mother Ship and sending it your encrypted information, whatever it is.

A partial (sorry for the length) quote:

I started this investigation to see whether I could determine exactly what information Microsoft is gathering from my systems. I was pleased that this telemetry data is now protected — but I was also disappointed that I couldn’t answer my primary question: Is Microsoft snooping on us?
Based on Microsoft’s privacy policy and a recent Blogging Windows post (http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/09/28/privacy-and-windows-10/) by Windows honcho Terry Meyerson, I’m fairly comfortable that the telemetry information won’t be used for truly malicious intent; hackers can’t access and use the information to wage attacks on our systems.
But there’s also the “Big Data” aspect. Will that data make its way to other massive services and get combined with other sources of information about us? I recently attended a technology conference that discussed Big Data services, and I came away both impressed and worried.
Still, as noted in a recent ZDNet article (http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-secure-windows-10-the-paranoids-guide/), if you’ve gone through Win10’s numerous privacy settings and you’re still uncomfortable about what the company does with your data, the alternative is to not upgrade to the new OS — or use “Chrome OS, iOS, Android, or any other system that’s tied closely into the cloud.”
I’m not ready to chuck those platforms, and I assume you aren’t either. But that doesn’t mean we should blindly accept vendors’ data-gathering practices.
On Windows 7 and 8.1 systems, you have fewer privacy options. Here, I recommend disabling the Windows telemetry service. Neither OS will see significant enhancements, so we’re mostly concerned with all-important security updates.
Open the start menu and click Administrative Tools/Services (or Control Panel/Administrative Tools/Services). Scroll down the list of services until you find Diagnostic Tracking Service. Click it and stop the service, then click OK. Now right-click the service and open Properties. Change Startup type from Automatic to Disabled (see Figure 2) and then click OK. (Note: If you don’t see the service, it’s probably because you’re behind a domain and didn’t get optional updates KB 3075249 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3075249), KB 3080149 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080149), and KB 3068708 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3068708) installed, install that service.)
http://windowssecrets.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/W20151001-TS-Disable.png
Figure 2. You can reduce the data your Win7 or Win8.1 system sends back to Microsoft by disabling Windows' Diagnostic Tracking Service.

I’m keeping the service disabled on my Win7 (and probably my Win10 systems, too), until I find out exactly what is being sent to Microsoft — or I feel more comfortable with the telemetry process. And I’m keeping a closer eye on all other Web-attached services and software. No matter what you think about Edward Snowden, he made all of us far more aware of how our personal data might be used.

Note that if you've eliminated the "dirty 11" updates as I have, you won't find the Windows Diagnostic Tracking Service. That is good and you need do nothing. But a search of your services once in awhile will ensure that Microsoft hasn't snuck the service back under a different KB number so you can be blessed by their respect for your rights. If it appears, turn it off, then do a search for what update reinstalled it. Microsoft has already done that several times, showing that it will not be bound by respect for our wishes and thinks it has a right to ownership rights to our hardware. Microsoft does not have and will not exercise ownership rights on my computer, even if I have to sunset Microsoft operating systems.

"Maximum caution and suspicion when dealing with Microsoft. That is the only reasonable option." I think Skybird said it best, right there and I'm not going to try to improve on it. And I'm afraid for better or worse, it's going to be the Europeans going to bat over privacy issues on that one. Americans need to grow a backbone and defend the principles we say we're so proud of. Europeans don't bother to make claims. They let their actions show their values. Good on 'em. Better to do something than just show you're a fool for opening your mouth to make claims you aren't willing to back up.

[STEED]

Diagnostic Tracking Service not found on my Win8.1 or those KB numbers.

[Rockin Robbins]

Separate post. One stop shopping for checking out the update package sent to you each Patch Day is at Ghacks.net. (http://www.ghacks.net/category/microsoft-companies/)

Bookmark that link, set your Microsoft Update to download and notify before installation of updates. Then when it says "updates are ready" you can head on over to Ghacks to see what goodies they've sent you.

The batch for October shows that the important updates are good. However in the optional updates we have the return (zombie!) of dirty 11 member, KB2952664, its Win 8/8.1 equivalent KB2976978. The original bad boy of the list, KB3035583 returns for another shot at the unwary! You should hide all those updates before installing the October list.

I've only concerned myself with updates relating to Windows 7 because if you have 8 or 8.1 your soul is already damned to cell phone hell.:D:D:D

[Rockin Robbins]

Diagnostic Tracking Service not found on my Win8.1 or those KB numbers.
You do well, Grasshopper! Remain vigilant.:salute:

[STEED]

You do well, Grasshopper! Remain vigilant.:salute:

What was found under Diagnostic was these..

Diagnostic Policy Service
Diagnostic Service Host
Diagnostic System Host

[Skybird]

Diagnostic Tracking Service is linked to update KB3022345. If you have deleted it, or blocked it from getting installed earlier this year, you are not having DTS. Which is good enough that you should not want to change that.

:03:

Another counter strategy that I leanred about, is "noise generating". Such system floods all output channels with all kind of useless, pointless feedback so that any data that would allow any company to profile the user usefully, gets hidden in a wall of white noise and makes profiling impossible, since when all feedback options for discriminating people get serviced and answered, no useful information is left anymore. Its a wall of white noise, so to speak. Its as if you go into a shop, gets asked by a salesman about this or that possible choice of yours, and you just say consistently to everything, whatever it is, "Yes". Impossible to learn about your preferences that way, what you are up to, or learn anything useful about.

I start to love white-noising. Its just no technique for the average user, but quite advanced. I would not know how to do it so that it indeed works reliably.

And as long as not everybody does it, those few doing it necessarily will attract the attention of automatised intel surveillance mechanisms. A single white-noiser will stand out from the crowd if all around him remain silent. The whole web must be white-noised.

[STEED]

I got nine optional KB's on hold, they are not coming onto my system until I read which ones are OK and which ones are no no.

Win8.1
KB3034348
KB3078405
KB3084905
KB3087418
KB3091297
KB3095108
KB3095649
KB3095701
KB3096433

[andy_311]

If you got the diagnostic tracking service disabled make sure that you also have "wmwappushsvc" disabled too it's part of the package.

[Skybird]

Are you sure you do not mean dmwappushsvc ?

"wmwappushsvc" I do not find anything on.

dmw... in principle is a constant keylogger apparently, covered by Microsoft'S latest privacy policy declaration that people who installed W8 and W10 automatically had to accept. Else they would not have been able to continue with the installation. The service is said to be unable to be deactivated in Windows services.

A keylogger. Wonderful. The more I hear about W8 and W10, the better it gets. My internet banking will come to an end sooner or later, I think.

If it gets backwardls-installed on W7, anyone please telling the KB-number then.

DTS and dmw... should have registry-entries under

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servic es,

if they are present on your system. That way you can quickly check it out whether you are vulnerable or not.

[Skybird]

For those already running W10, these tools may come handy. Be advised I just give the link, I have no experience with these, since I do not have W10.

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/05/donotspy10-configure-windows-10-privacy-settings/

https://github.com/10se1ucgo/DisableWinTracking/releases

Every time I read something about W10, it gets worse. Worse and worse and worse and worse.

[Jeff-Groves]

I installed Windows 10 way back as a Beta tester and got Herpes.
Danged things fly around the house and mess with all kinds of stuff!
:nope:


Oops. Harpies! I meant Harpies!
Nasty creatures.
:haha:

[Aktungbby]

All your harpies gave you herpes while my sirens sweetly singing...gave me migraines:woot:

[andy_311]

Are you sure you do not mean dmwappushsvc ?

"wmwappushsvc" I do not find anything on.

dmw... in principle is a constant keylogger apparently, covered by Microsoft'S latest privacy policy declaration that people who installed W8 and W10 automatically had to accept. Else they would not have been able to continue with the installation. The service is said to be unable to be deactivated in Windows services.

A keylogger. Wonderful. The more I hear about W8 and W10, the better it gets. My internet banking will come to an end sooner or later, I think.

If it gets backwardls-installed on W7, anyone please telling the KB-number then.

DTS and dmw... should have registry-entries under

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servic es,

if they are present on your system. That way you can quickly check it out whether you are vulnerable or not.

yes that what I meant sorry

[andy_311]

For those already running W10, these tools may come handy. Be advised I just give the link, I have no experience with these, since I do not have W10.

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/05/donotspy10-configure-windows-10-privacy-settings/

https://github.com/10se1ucgo/DisableWinTracking/releases

Every time I read something about W10, it gets worse. Worse and worse and worse and worse.

I have used the tool that is described in the fist link and it has disabled a lot of the stuff mentioned here had no problems so far.

[Onkel Neal]

Are you sure you do not mean dmwappushsvc ?

"wmwappushsvc" I do not find anything on.

dmw... in principle is a constant keylogger apparently, covered by Microsoft'S latest privacy policy declaration that people who installed W8 and W10 automatically had to accept. Else they would not have been able to continue with the installation. The service is said to be unable to be deactivated in Windows services.

A keylogger. Wonderful. The more I hear about W8 and W10, the better it gets. My internet banking will come to an end sooner or later, I think.





Yeah, imagine when MS gets hacked a la Target, et all. It could be a mess.

[STEED]

DTS and dmw... should have registry-entries under

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servic es,

if they are present on your system. That way you can quickly check it out whether you are vulnerable or not.

Not found on my Win8.1. :)

[Skybird]

Yeah, imagine when MS gets hacked a la Target, et all. It could be a mess.
Not sure whether you are ironic or not, i do not know what you mean. Target...?

I just say: banking apps. Steam. Webshop access codes for Amazon or Ebay. Antisocial media. And when you change the codes for any or all of that: MS - and who knows who else behind them - already learns about it the moment you change these codes and feel safe again.

Just in case you were ironic, here at the latest you better stop it.

I have started to scan for a cheap notebook. I will install a Linux version on it and then use that for banking and shopping only. My tower main system is to be reinstalled and then only used for gaming anymore. Things have become too dangerous and too suspicious. And I have not even spend much attention to the role of government intel and surveillance in all this.

But I need to learn more about Linux first. I am still almost clueless.

----
I know for certain - from an insider - that the BKA ("German FBI"), when being engaged, takes it as a clue that raises suspicion and could even trigger investigation, when somebody does not own a smartphone. Smartphones could be used for movement profiling, and movement profiles can be used to identify people with as great validity than fingerprints these days, it has been demonstrated that it takes only an unbelievably small number or geographic coordinate references to individually identify any human. Also, smartphones can be used to spy on people's bank transactions and communications, obviously. Not owning a smartphone thus now gets rated as a hint that you have something to hide that makes you wanting to avoid detection. Some politicians even want to make the right to own a smartphone even a basic human right. :o In principle they want to chip people, like cattle, sheep, and pets. In Sweden, some companies already do that with their employees. Naive as the Swedes seem to be on so many issues, they even like they idea. They also want to abandon cash money and force all people to digital money accounts, so that the state can easier steal and plunder and rob from them, and people not being able to defend themselves from this plundering anymore.

A perfectly reasonable, perfectly harmless habit/attitude/wish to not own a smartphone - now is an affirmation for the suspicion that you are guilty in any way, that you have to hide something.

Already several years ago, after 9/11, it got uncovered some time later that for American investigation services, US citizens not having debts and credit cards, were seen as more suspicious possible terror suspects, than citizens who had such debts and credit cards to juggle their debts.

Its getting more and more crazy, and I honestly do not feel like just grinning, and ignoring it with a laugh. Its all not funny anymore. Money, privacy, claims of national security and national freedom - it all gets turned into tools for our suppression. Its frightening. And it becomes worse every quarter of a year.


It is these greater contexts that makes Microsoft's moves so suspicious, dubious, dangerous, and untrustworthy.

I trust nobody anymore, when it is about all these things. Nobody.

[Onkel Neal]

no sir, not being ironic at all

http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/22/news/companies/target-credit-card-hack/

[Skybird]

^Oh. New news to me.

[Onkel Neal]

Alright, my first hands on with Win10, man, it sure is butt ugly. :dead: Am I missing a basic UI setting here? I mean, the windows are all white and beige, the icons look like something from 1987. It's just so simple and crude looking, a big departure from the sleek UI in Win7.

I've installed Classic Shell, that helped a little, got rid of ll those cartoony live tile things.

As for the actual functionality of Win 10, so far, so good, I guess. Nothing that Win XP couldn't do every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Sailor Steve]

I'm not sure what you're seeing. My desktop looks much like it always has. Windows 8.1 (or probably 7) fixed one thing that always annoyed me about XP, but it's a minor screen thing.

I agree about XP though. They could have left well enough alone, and just included some improvements. Kind of like SH5. :O:

[Onkel Neal]

I'm seeing this. Note the toolbars....about the same color as the window. Very bland.

I tried changing to "High Contrast", man, that was 10X worse :haha:

What are you seeing? I know there is probably some setting I am missing....

[Jimbuna]

Alright, my first hands on with Win10, man, it sure is butt ugly. :dead: Am I missing a basic UI setting here? I mean, the windows are all white and beige, the icons look like something from 1987. It's just so simple and crude looking, a big departure from the sleek UI in Win7.

I've installed Classic Shell, that helped a little, got rid of ll those cartoony live tile things.

As for the actual functionality of Win 10, so far, so good, I guess. Nothing that Win XP couldn't do every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Agreed but set up your defaults apps such as email and search engine etc. etc. then get used to the functionality over the next week or so.

I can't say I noticed any major improvements but you get accustomed to it and seeing as it will be the only kid on the block for Microsoft users in a year or so time, the sooner you become assimilated the better.

*hides under rock to avoid incoming*

[Jimbuna]

This is mine (W7 Style).

http://i.imgur.com/lfxNx8B.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, I can see there's no escaping this bland UI. :doh: Maybe after some more searching I will find some themes that make the UI look better, or get used to mediocrity.

[Skybird]

Decisions have been made, first steps have been taken.

I opted for Linux Mint, which has a reputation to be nice and accessible for newcomers.

Having printed several guides and papers from the web, I was not satisfied with the lacking structure of this approach. I am not 24 anymore, I am 48 - and I have started to feel learning very new things becoming a bit more - hm, stressful to my brain. :) So I got myself a Linux Mint introductory book and CD.

I got out the old laptop I once administrated for my mother before I got her a new one, it has still Vista installed and is not needed. I can kill the HD's content, and then use this as a sandbox and playground for my first test installation of Mint. That way - if I can get Mint working on it, it is several years old and I may find it troublesome regarding drivers - I can familiarize myself with Mint without being under any sort of pressure.

If in some months I am satisfied with how things turned out to be, I will get a new computer, and two HDs. I then will have W7 and gaming on one, and Linux and "working", all non-gaming, surfing on the other. The W7 will maybe even change for W10 some not too close day, but since nothing else but games will run under it, if possible offline, this then can do little or no harm.

Things previously just intended and announced, now start to become material reality. The laptop, book and printouts lay on my table for real.

Now off to - hopefully - learn about driver preservation for that old notebook, I never did this kind of stunt before.

[STEED]

Win10 is a anagram for Genisys and Genisys is Skynet. :DL :03:

[vienna]

http://www8.pcmag.com/media/images/299255-what-happens-when-skynet-becomes-self-aware.jpg?thumb=y


<O>

[AVGWarhawk]

Win10 is a anagram for Genisys and Genisys is Skynet. :DL :03:


Doomed I tells'ya. Doomed....

[Skybird]

Tough start, sweet landing.

Yesterday I headjumped into it. Wanted to install Mint 17.1 from Book CD and later 17.2 via burnt ISO on my old laptop. The two things started to bite each other, leading to endless rebootings. Not good a beginning, and all I thought was just ####.

Thinking it was the old hardware (2009 notebook), I installed it for my PC instead, only two years younger - on a USB 3.0 stick. :) This worked, and what I saw once Linux Mint was running, was a revelation and tells me just with booting times already (4 seconds for booting, 3 for going off), what garbage Microsoft is selling the world with its Windows. Looks are superb, handling needs to get used to due to some knowledge needed where things are being done simply differently, but it is excellent. All I want an OS to be: pretty, sorted, and quick, and not constantly telephoning home, or anywhere else. I am currently sealing it off even further. And things are so fast, both in processing and in procedures like installing something. No comparison to the immense data volumes Windows needs to keep itself updated - its lightyears apart.

However, this morning I learned that I must have mistakenly written the boot manager GRUB not to the stick, but the HD, I currently cannot boot the PC to Windows without having that stick plugged in, and even that stick allowing windows to boot, took me an effort in researching. I now need to learn how to repair the windows bootmanager on the HD, and probably will opt to simply reinstall Windows completely.

Meanwhile, after many starting attempts, for a reason I still do not know, the laptop suddenly accepted installation, and I now have a fully encrypted 6 years old notebook with a fresh Linux installation that runs several factors as fast than Vista on it ever did. It's hilarious! It runs as if factory-installed, and being brandnew. A Samsung R509. BTW, Vista had a happy funeral, lots of laughter and mockery. Even the system restore files got plowed under, never no more Vista again nowhere.

The voyage has begun, and I am in mid-transfer. There is no return anymore. I will maintain the PC for gaming under Windows 7, and maybe later fit a second HD or an exchange frame for swapping drives or an external USB 3.0 SSD with Linux for everything else, but for the time being I use that old XXL-Speed-Superlaptop for all non-gaming purposes.

[Rockin Robbins]

Decisions have been made, first steps have been taken.

I opted for Linux Mint, which has a reputation to be nice and accessible for newcomers.

A fine choice. I also have a fondness for Ubuntu derivatives: Lubuntu, Xubuntu, PC Linux, Elementary OS, Linux Mint. I love to see what single or small team programmers can do to refine or reform Ubuntu and they're all very, very good.

I got out the old laptop I once administrated for my mother before I got her a new one, it has still Vista installed and is not needed. I can kill the HD's content, and then use this as a sandbox and playground for my first test installation of Mint. That way - if I can get Mint working on it, it is several years old and I may find it troublesome regarding drivers - I can familiarize myself with Mint without being under any sort of pressure.

And that's the other advantage of Linux--the ability to get great execution speeds out of older equipment. Love your strategy. Enjoy!

[Rockin Robbins]

However, this morning I learned that I must have mistakenly written the boot manager GRUB not to the stick, but the HD, I currently cannot boot the PC to Windows without having that stick plugged in, and even that stick allowing windows to boot, took me an effort in researching. I now need to learn how to repair the windows bootmanager on the HD, and probably will opt to simply reinstall Windows completely.

There is software to allow you to update GRUB to dual boot windows. It works much better that way than using the Windows bootmanager. I'm away from my Linux computer right now so I can't give specific directions. Edit: actually, if you install Mint after you install Windows, Mint (and any other Ubuntu derivative) will automatically (or with your guidance) reduce the size of the Windows partition, install and format the Linux partitions (data and swap), install Linux, install GRUB and auto configure it to dual boot with menu options for Linux, Linux repair and Windows.

And remember, Linux reads and writes to Windows partitions like a native. Windows ignores Linux entirely, neither reading or writing Linux data. In fact if you have a separate drive instead of just another partition for Linux, Windows will pretend the drive doesn't even exist. If they are in separate partitions on the same disk Windows will pretend the Linux partition doesn't exist. Can you see problems with the Windows bootloader working under those constraints? That's why GRUB is a better alternative. Check out GRUB Customizer (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAAahUKEwihwNKxsPfIAhXEQCYKHXzUDwQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Flaunchpad.net%2Fgrub-customizer&usg=AFQjCNEHoAc7q2dSzDcLhsmm93QL9it0PA&sig2=d5rnqSEVzYKGGpwxCPGnkw) at the Launchpad PPA.

Meanwhile, after many starting attempts, for a reason I still do not know, the laptop suddenly accepted installation, and I now have a fully encrypted 6 years old notebook with a fresh Linux installation that runs several factors as fast than Vista on it ever did. It's hilarious! It runs as if factory-installed, and being brandnew. A Samsung R509. BTW, Vista had a happy funeral

That was my most refreshing takeaway from a Linux switch. Running the same Firefox I'm used to with all settings from my Windows installation, the browser just screams with VERY noticeable speed improvements from Windows 7. And it's the same software! No training necessary.

But if you want to experience something really interesting, load up Konqueror, a fascinating combination web browser/file manager/open anything on Earth swiss army knife for your computer. You can download it from their website at https://konqueror.org/ (https://konqueror.org/)or if you use Synaptic Package Manager, as I do, just download it from the Mint or Ubuntu repository.

Just explaining what a repository is would blow the minds of all the Windows drones who don't have a clue about the best way to distribute software. Clue: Microsoft is only about 20 years late to the party and of course they had to copy enough to make it work then ruin it with their greed. Think of the possibilities of actually working for the benefit of users. When I boot up Linux, it automatically (or any way I choose) updates not only the operating system, but EVERY PIECE OF SOFTWARE ON THE SYSTEM. It does it in the background and you don't notice any slowdown of the system.

Especially switching between Ubuntu or derivatives to Windows 10 it feels like you've journeyed back to 1990. Windows 10 just looks crude in comparison.

[Skybird]

Bear with me, my first ever Linux installation is not even 24 hours old, and I am still a newbie to Linux like I was to PCs in the mid-90s when I migrated from Amiga to Windows 95. I cannot sort into the right place most of what you say here. Its a new environment, a brandnew world, so to speak. I need much more time to get orientation. But I already like very much what I see.

What I would like to know right now, is just this: If I wipe my PC's HD, and make it a Win7 (gaming) platform, probably with three partitions again: Windows system files, swap file (easier to delete that one and format the partition than trying to occasionally defragmentize a swap file with a separate tool), and a third partition for games, simulations, Steam, and the needed AntiVir, Firewall, anti-Malware, maybe Sandbox - if I set up my PC for that, is there anything I should make different or should prepare in advance for later attachment of a second HD from which I run Linux? I read that one should install Windows BEFORE Linux, that the other way around could cause troubles. Is there anything I should know about partitioning, max number of partitions, partition types, even when for the moment I only install W7 and game-related stuff - so that later I will not get caught by the revenge of something minor when I want to install Linux on a second HD?

[Rockin Robbins]

What I would like to know right now, is just this: If I wipe my PC's HD, and make it a Win7 (gaming) platform, probably with three partitions again: Windows system files, swap file (easier to delete that one and format the partition than trying to occasionally defragmentize a swap file with a separate tool), and a third partition for games, simulations, Steam, and the needed AntiVir, Firewall, anti-Malware, maybe Sandbox - if I set up my PC for that, is there anything I should make different or should prepare in advance for later attachment of a second HD from which I run Linux? I read that one should install Windows BEFORE Linux, that the other way around could cause troubles. Is there anything I should know about partitioning, max number of partitions, partition types, even when for the moment I only install W7 and game-related stuff - so that later I will not get caught by the revenge of something minor when I want to install Linux on a second HD?

Okay, if you have the two operating systems on two separate drives, you're doing something I heartily recommend. Setting up your Windows disk in three partitions will work great. Windows 7 64-bit doesn't care too much whether a partition is defragmented or not. Being old school I defrag anyway. Then after you're happy with your Windows 7 operation it's time to install Linux on the other hard drive.

Go ahead and let it decide swap partition size. During installation it will automatically find your Windows disk and set up GRUB to dual boot. If you boot the Linux disk you'll get a menu to pick Windows or Linux.

But the beauty of the separate hard drives for different operating systems is that if you boot the Windows disk you have the Windows bootloader intact. That makes all Windows repair, reinstallation, etc work entirely normally and they don't have to ignore the GRUB partition and complain that you are missing the Windows bootloader so can't proceed with the repair. Yes, it is a major headache to deal with Microsoft's willing blindness.

Now you can manually boot each disk separately. With the Linux disk as your default boot disk you get the GRUB menu asking whether you want to run Linux or Windows. So yes, you are installing just as I would and have done.

Steam is adding more and more Linux versions of top games. There's a guy running around Subsim who can set you up to run Silent Hunter 4 flawlessly under Linux. Microsoft is in danger of losing it all with their boneheaded moves. The truth is that we don't need them any more.

They're just like Commodore was with the Amiga. No idea what they have or how to sell it. Clumsy moves getting customers mad could make Microsoft the NEXT Commodore and Windows the next Amiga.

If that happens it will happen fast and take them totally by surprise. One day they'll wake up and find all they are is an article in Wikipedia.

[HW3]

Comments?

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-needs-to-fit-windows-10-with-a-data-collection-off-switch/

[Rockin Robbins]

Decent article, although it pretends that Microsoft is collecting information to improve the mechanics of Windows, when Microsoft is really collecting information to serve you advertisements. The ads you see in the "start menu" which is not a start menu, its a billboard where the squares are for sale and whose squares are meant to induce you to spend money on people's products who buy that space on your computer without any of the purchase price coming to you.

It is possible to simply sniff the packets being sent, find out which servers Microsoft is using and blacklist 'em. You can do that with your router, so Windows wouldn't even be able to prohibit your blacklisting. I would suspect that will be the direction that anti-malware programs will use to defang Microsoft's spyware/adware loop.

But frankly, once shattering the trust of your customers, how do you unbreak that glass. No matter how much glue you use the cracks will always be there, a relationship, millions of relationships really, that can never be the same as they were with Windows 7. Every single person is now open to alternatives they never would have considered two years ago.

We are all rape victims of a trusted member of the family we thought was above reproach. And we're never going to trust Microsoft again. There is no going back.

I suppose if they cleaned house of all responsible for those decisions, eliminated all Facebookization of Windows, acknowledged all the wrong decisions they have made and swore never to do it again, then gave everyone who wanted one a copy of a new operating system that demonstrated that they believe legitimate profit comes as a result of good faith service to customers, pledging that all future actions of Microsoft would be for their customers' benefit, I would reconsider. But they will never do that. The ascendancy of the bean counter is cresting. The fall is near. Treachery has consequences and they cannot be avoided. Sometimes through manipulation, coercion and threats the consequences can be delayed. But that only makes them more severe when they arrive.

Microsoft, change your heart, take out the rubbish, or you are doomed.

[Skybird]

That data policy of W10 is what made me launching for Linux. That they reverse-installed sniffing software from W10 on W7, pissed me even more. That they were sneaking in through the backdoor while I slept, and did so not only without my consent, but against my deliberate and active resistance and measures I have taken to actively keep them away - this was unforgivable.

I had a good day yesterday testing Mint on that laptop, but today, the thing does not boot anymore, is caught in endless rebooting loops, even trying to boot from Mint Live Stick or DVD does not work, but leads to a loading that sooner or later gets interrupted again. I have no clue what is going on, I googled and see that the problem seems to be not rare, quite some people report it.

Whether Linux will make significant progress with the gamers, remains to be seen, I am sceptical. That it progresses and wins gamers I hear and read since over ten years, since 15 years or longer, but essentially they still are where they were 15 years ago, more or less. That a small number of mostly insignificant games are available for it via Steam, doe snot fundamentally change it. There is not even a decent chess GUI comparing to what is available for Windows both commercially or for free. Heck, with Android I get better chess software than for Linux. - Linux and games: I remain very sceptical, and will believe it not before the day I see it happening. None of the games I am interested in, runs under it, btw. The usability of Wine seems to be limited, it lacks in performance power, it seems, and demanding titles thus are a problem for it.

So for the most I go linux to piss MS, to protect my privacy a bit more, and hopefully to get a safer online experience.

But first I must get a stable and trustworthy Linux installation.

[Rockin Robbins]

I have not had the boot loop experience with Mint. I wonder if it is hardware related and if there is a workaround.

I would download the base distro, Ubuntu, and give that a try to see if Mint is the problem. If you are running Ubuntu, you can download the Mint desktop if you like that better. If you find the boot loop problem recurrs with Ubuntu, then I'd suspect you have a rare hardware/software interaction causing the problem. That can be difficult to diagnose for any operating system.

[Skybird]

I created new ISO DVD and stick with new downloads of both, and currently reinstall Mint 17.2. The booting failed maybe 5 out of 6 times, and so did the recognition of the Mint Live stick and DVD yesterday as well as today. It was the same on PC yesterday (tried Live on PC and installed it on USB stick). I also tried a book DVD with 17.1

However, googling it shows that I amj not alone, and that it is not just Mint. These booting loops and impossibilities to have installation media recognised, seems to be present under other Linux distributions, too, also that after installation the system just goes black screen.

For testing running the Windows installation in the laptop as if I wanted to install, went smooth. Drive condition was yesterday found by a checking software to be "good", the laptop just sat on the shelf for the last two years, and my mother did not use it that much at all in the time before. Its in good shape, I am quite sure.

Edit. Meanwhile the installation finished. It reboots - every second time.

Well, tomorrow afternoon I will have access to another system, a foreign one. :D I can test a Mint Live installation there via stick and DVD, and see how it goes.

[Skybird]

The total and ultimate hijack. :D A thread on Windows 10 ending in discussing installation of Linux.

Sign of the times, Microsoft! :salute: You know you deserved this.

[Rockin Robbins]

Actually, skybird, Linux IS what you need to know about Windows 10!:D:D:D

[Skybird]

More bad news, the laptop sometimes boots, but most often does not, but stalls once I'm behind the Grub selection screen. And then it may work all of a sudden, and I have a stable session. Until I turn it off, and start new. Live sessions from stick or DVD - the same. I also tried an ISO of Ubuntu: it starts booting, and then breaks off.

I googled a lot, and only see that many users seem to have problems like these, with many different Linux distributions.

If Linux maybe has one shining bright weakness - I think I stumbled over it.

Think I put XP back on that laptop, the Vista stuff is gone, and that way I can at least use it as another backup drive.

The good news is that I have seen enough yesterday of what i needed to see and learn about Mint, how it works, and all its included applications. Funny it is that just weeks ago I had switched to Libre Office under Windows, too, I never liked OpenOffice. Seeing it under Mint was like meeting a newly found friend once again.

Ordering another hard drive and cable now, another new one already sits on my shelf. Next week is PC reinstallation frenzy.

Until then: Raceroom, and Assetto Corsa. Who knows if by the end of next week I still have a functional PC driving them. :)

[vienna]

So, while the those of us who are running Win 10 are doing so with little or no problems, others are struggling to get a dubious OS to even boot; interesting... :D


<O>

[Skybird]

^ Different to you Win10 folks I do not need to walk around skin-naked. ;) We talk again by the end of next week when I am done with resetting the PC. My worries with that 6 year old laptop right now served exactly the intended purpose: a test environment to learn about Mint for the first time ever, and adapting to what to expect from Linux. Confusions and questions and decisions I had with the very first installation attempts two days ago, can no longer surprise me when doing it for real on my "mainframe". :03:

[Onkel Neal]

So, while the those of us who are running Win 10 are doing so with little or no problems, others are struggling to get a dubious OS to even boot; interesting... :D


<O>
I want Win 10 to succeed, I really do. And it probably will... after a lot of open beta testing by us.


So far, after 5 days I have had 3 BSOD. Something I almost never got with Win 7. :shifty:

At least I was able to get Windows start menu under control.
With Classic Shell it looks like this
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=8434


instead of this freakin' cartoony hodge-podge of mess
http://cdn.bgr.com/2015/07/win10-start-menu.jpg?w=624


.
.
.

Also, if you are like me, and you have a severely limited amount of bandwidth to use each month, you do not want Windows burning through itfor you with updates, and even worse, I discovered that Windows 10 uses your bandwidth to help other PC users update. :/\\!!




Here are details and how to put a stop to it.

http://lifehacker.com/windows-10-uses-your-bandwidth-to-distribute-updates-d-1721091469

http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2015/07/30/windows-10-steals-your-bandwidth-to-send-other-people-updates/

Sheesh, no wonder I am 4GB over my limit this month. :nope:

[vienna]

I had the same BSOD problems at first, but they seem to have been resolved by the updates to the Win 10 system. So far, the only problems I'm having are related to some BIOS issues due to the PC's maker not having been fast enough to deal with some tweaks between Win 10 OS and the BIOS. The manufacturer just a few days ago released some new BIOS updates and it has drastically reduced issues; I have also been really carefully scrutinizing the web support sites for the add-on hardware/software so as to keep up-to-date on the latest drive releases...

I, also, am no fan of the "improved" UI that MS has been using lately. I changed the UI to more closely resemble the older UI and thus be something more familiar to me. I have old age and relentless stubbornness on my side: I will not be dragged into the 21st century... :D


<O>

[Rockin Robbins]

So, while the those of us who are running Win 10 are doing so with little or no problems, others are struggling to get a dubious OS to even boot; interesting... :D


<O>
It's not a dubious OS, it's a rare interaction between hardware and software, similar to those we sometimes wrestle with in Silent Hunter 4. I've run Linux on dozens of computers since 2004 and never had that problem.

However, for every problem Linux has, Windows has dozens. How many times has Windows Update had a crippled update that took millions of systems down? Too many times. And now updates are not optional and must be installed automatically. Do I have to paint the picture? This isn't an "if" situation, it's a "when."

Linux is more reliable, more stable, faster, more customizable. It is the source of Windows programs that we all love, Firefox, Thunderbird, Libre Office, Open Office, Inkscape, Chrome is developed there, the vast majority of Internet servers use Apache on Linux systems, there are dozens more programs, all come from and were developed under Linux before migrating to Windows. Most wireless and wired routers run Linux as their operating system, as do cameras, burglar alarm systems, telephone systems. Why? Because it's much more reliable, stable and customizable than Windows. Even NASA and ESA are using Linux instead of Windows. Why? For mission critical software, it's better. And they have ironclad assurance that THEY are in 100% control of their hardware.

No, Skybird is encountering a rare interaction of some kind which does not reflect on the quality of Linux. Dubious is the LAST word that can be used to describe Linux. Every improvement to Windows has been a copy of something long used in Linux. When Windows made the 8 to 8.1 transition it was accomplished by stealing just enough from Linux' Unity GUI (Linux has more than a dozen GUIs to choose from) to make Windows barely workable. Repositories mutating into the Windows Store are a prime example of tragic mutation of a 20 year old Linux accomplishment.

[Skybird]

My problems with my old notebook must be hardware-related. I tested the same Mint-DVD that I used before on another notebook today - and it worked flawlessly, fast, and smooth like a breeze. Its the notebook my Mum is using. :D I planned to just test the Live mode (a demo setup that installs nothing on HD), but when I had it running after 5 minutes :D, it worked so smooth and flawlessly that I just hit the install-button on desktop and installed it right from there on top and right into the middle of the existing Windows 7 partition. :woot:Mayxbe not always recommended to do so - but it works.

All needed software comes with this install already, all that she needs, and Firefox that she already knows. I showed her Thunderbird, which looks and works a lot like Live Mail, I installed the usual antiscript-addons and such for Firefox, I updated the OS, and 20 minutes later she was already handling the whole thing all by herself. No more maintenance needed for her (antiVir, Firewall, MBAM, Sandbox,Windows updates that in parts must be deinstalled again, XP antispy and what else you need to run to make Windows a "tight" and halfway secure OS). No data migration needed, since Linux recognises all Windows stuf and files and folders.

Its hilarious, and a disgrace for Microsoft! :haha: :yeah: This week I really learned how much Microsoft cheats its customers and blinds them and sells us crap that smells beyond what you can believe!

Full setup, complete system, all tuning and addons set. In far less than 30 minutes. With all what is needed: its done, its present.

And just in case: the old Windows 7 installation still is there and can comfortably be switched to, too.

Another Hd is ordered, and when I have those twol new HDs next week, I reinstall as planned, everything. This weekend will belong to backing up data.

Vienna: who laughs last, laughs best. :salute: :har:

BTW, the laptop of my Mum boots four times as fast or faster than before, and the browser runs practically without any noticable delay now - click a page, and you are there. Turning the notebook down: 3-4 seconds at best. :haha: That thing is already over two years old and costed less than 550 bucks.

Neal,
consider to split your notebooks partition and go for a dual boot. The one thing I learned this week is this: installing Linux and getting used to the ordinary everyday working routines while using the old Windows data files, is incredibly easy. You could do this: get a Mint 17.2 ISO file, and a tool to burn it onto a bootable DVD (USB sticks can but must not cause troubles sometimes). Use that disc than to boot under Linux in a demonstration mode, and test it. It does not overwrite your existing HD and W10. Once you feel comfortable, install Linux 17.2 from right that demo mode running. You then boot the laptop of yours, and always get asked at the beginning whether you want to boot Linux or Windows. From Linux, you can access all your Windows workfiles - but from Windows you will not be able to see any Linux files. Really, its as easy as this. Just use that demo mode before.

[Skybird]

Robbins,

what are good and safe Linux pendants to Skype Video Chat, Team Viewer, Bandicam, and how is it with Google Earth under Linux?

Stellarium is available under Linux, I see. ArtRage 4 unfortunately not, which is a shame.

What I cannot do in Linux, will find a place in the Windows 7 gaming setup.

Shredder 12 (chess) is also available for Linux, but expensive and not really eqivalent to Shredder under Windows, I read.

[Rockin Robbins]

Robbins,

what are good and safe Linux pendants to Skype Video Chat, Team Viewer, Bandicam, and how is it with Google Earth under Linux?

Stellarium is available under Linux, I see. ArtRage 4 unfortunately not, which is a shame.

What I cannot do in Linux, will find a place in the Windows 7 gaming setup.

Shredder 12 (chess) is also available for Linux, but expensive and not really eqivalent to Shredder under Windows, I read.

Skype is available on Linux. You just have to add the repository it lives in and it just works really well. Teamviewer is a native Linux application and works flawlessly under Linux--no alternative necessary. Google Earth runs really well in Linux.

My astronomy program du jour is a French program they unfortunately called Sky Charts in English. I prefer the French hame Cartes du Ciel. It is just a flawlessly extraordinary astronomy program with databases including all stars down to about magnitude 14. Patrick Chevalley is a total genius and has made a masterpiece there. It works better in Linux than it does in Windows and it runs wonderfully in Windows. I use it to plan my cell phone astrophotography sessions. I believe I have the world's first cell phone photo of galaxies. I'm working on the Cygnus area now, featuring the North American nebula. If I get it I'll be outperforming $1500 DSLRs. That would be fun!

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Andromeda%20w%20black%20screens%20best%20copy_zpsm rtrlvo3.jpg

I'm not really sure about a Bandicam replacement. I haven't done any game recording in Linux, but after I get Silent Hunter 4 working there I'll be checking that angle out myself. And ArtRage4 is a real niche program with no real analogs, even in Windows software. Since they make an OSX version, that is very, very close to Linux I'd bug 'em about making a Linux version. Linux will blossom when commercial software is sold for it, both games and other applications.

You also might be able to get ArtRage to run in Wine. The fallback is a Virtualbox installation of Windows XP. You can shut off the Internet access of a Virtualbox client and make Windows XP perfectly safe to use. Of course, Virtualbox is a native Linux application that migrated to Windows long after it was a polished app far superior to commercial virtual computing in the Windows world.

[aanker]

I wonder if Arena (a GUI for chess engines) will work with your Linux OS Skybird.

The Arena site says, "it runs on Windows XP or higher or on Linux with Wine 1.0 or higher."
- http://playwitharena.com/?Welcome_to_Arena

I have used Arena (free) on Windows for many years.

[Skybird]

Thanks for the software recommendations.

I know Arena from PC and wondered whether it would run under Wine, I have no idea how well Wine performs or not. I do not expect complex super-charged graphics-wonders working too well in Wine, nor do i think things like FSX-PMDG or Assetto Corsa or Raceroom or soon Fallout 4 would run via Wine.

Arena is the best free chess GUI out there. Even better are only payware GUIs - and that is mainly about looks.

My mother will like to hear Team Viewer running under Linux, although I expect her to run into much fewer problems when i must help on the fly, than before.

Whether it is wise to use Skype anymore, is another question, now that either Google or Microsoft bought it. In the end it is an open channel into systems and I have no idea whether it is wise to arrange oneself with that anymore, even under Linux?! I would like to cut all links to US-based server stations and US corporations completely. :) Is there an unsuspicious replacement service available?

Stellarium I like for the quick overview on what'S up in the sky currently, other such software may do even more ( I have two or three others...), but it does not look so beautiful and also is not that sweet to handle.

Space Engine - running under Wine...?

Bandicam - I forgot that I will not run comploex sims and games under Linux, so it is not needed at all for Linux.

P.S. That old laptop. I just does not like Linux, and Linux doe snoit like it. I installed an old XP onot it, and to works stable. I tried to seal it off as good as possible with free stuff and set options extremely paranoid. That way it should serve as a backup if I need access to the web for information when my main syswtem goes on strike. And if that old thing gets infested - who cares. I will not attach it ever to USB sticks, external drives or anything. Just being able to do researches if needed - a safety measurement. Good to know its there, just in case, handles more comfortably than virtual keyboards on an Android tablet.

[Rockin Robbins]

Stellarium I like for the quick overview on what'S up in the sky currently, other such software may do even more ( I have two or three others...), but it does not look so beautiful and also is not that sweet to handle.
Well now! If it's Stellarium you wish it is Stellarium you shall have! The authors of that software are not American so are not Microslothcentric. And they have an Ubuntu version. Since Mint is Ubuntu based, any Ubuntu program will run flawlessly under Mint.

I wouldn't be surprised if Stellarium were not available already in the Synaptic Package manager. If it is not this link (https://launchpad.net/~stellarium/+archive/ubuntu/stellarium-releases) will set you up with connecting Stellarium's PPA to Synaptic, which will treat it just like all your other software. If, when you log on in the morning, there is an update available, Synaptic will offer you the ability to download the update, or even install it automatically if you configure it that way.

You CAN have your cake and eat it too! Wonder what the translation of that looks like?:D

[HW3]

Neal,

This might be the answer to saving your limited bandwidth.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-stop-windows-10-spying-on-you/

[Onkel Neal]

Some good news, the next update will include some color customization for the interface.
https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/7695/heres-whats-new-in-the-windows-10-fall-update

I knew my bellyaching would pay off :haha:

[Rockin Robbins]

Some good news, the next update will include some color customization for the interface.
https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/7695/heres-whats-new-in-the-windows-10-fall-update

I knew my bellyaching would pay off :haha:
Meh, no gradients, no transparency, no rounded corners, no customization of minimize, window/full screen, close, window shade buttons, heck, NO WINDOW SHADE button at all in spite of the fact that they've stolen (badly) everything that makes 10 better than 8 or 8.1 from Linux.

In 1990 we were looking at flat screens because that's all we had saying "Won't it be great when we can have real 3D buttons with shadows, 3D scroll bars, rounded corners, dare we DREAM of transparency? Well we had all that in Windows 7 and there Microsoft slams us back to 1990 again telling us how we should love it.

Even with the "improvements" Windows 3.1 had more customization, more sophistication to the GUI and we were all excited about 3D. Let's just all pass out the clay tablets because if Microsoft is in charge that's what we're all going to end up with.

Just to show you how far behind Windows is and how they've ineptly stolen from Linux, here's my Gnome (pronounced with a hard G) 2 desktop application selection screen from Ubuntu in 2008! See how it blows Windows 10 away in sophistication seven years before Windows tried unsuccessfully to steal the Gnome/Unity GUI elements?

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/GNOME%20applications%20selection_zpsinjsrnha.png

Look at those beautiful full millions of colors 3D icons showing every program on the machine. It can be scrolled up or down--you're only seeing a partial list. You can filter the list. You can type part of the name and get a smaller and smaller list. You can just browse the list if you don't know what you're looking for. This whole GUI is about expanding possibilities and working YOUR way in a sophisticated and beautiful manner seven years before Microsoft brought you a crippled version.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Screenshot-2_zpsrtuuree1.png (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/RockinRobbins13/media/Screenshot-2_zpsrtuuree1.png.html)

Here I am writing a post to Subsim in 2008. Look at the sophistication of the GUI. The window decorations (buttons, banner colors, borders, etc) are all customizable. You can see that I moved the normal minimize, window/full screen and close window buttons to the top left and that they're circles color coded by function instead of the symbols Windows uses. You can see that the corners of the window are rounded and the bar has a gray gradient. And this window is customized so if you double click the bar on top the window rolls up into the bar opening the screen below. And you can see that the window sticks to the edges of the screen, even bending like Jello when you pull it away as I am doing here.

Now seven years later Windows has us in a monochrome prison, totally flat like a green monitor used to be, choices of dozens, not millions of colors, no transparency, no rounded corners, no roll-up windows. Linux looked better than Windows 10 in 2000. And they have progressed while Windows regresses into the DOS days in sophistication and ease of use.

No thanks. Windows 7 is as good as Microsoft got before their demise.

(http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-growth-sluggish-as-windows-7-windows-8-users-stick-with-their-os/)Windows 10 growth sluggish as Windows 7/8.x users stick with their OS (http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-growth-sluggish-as-windows-7-windows-8-users-stick-with-their-os/)


The truth does not bear out the Microsoft propoganda. Even forcing upgrades has not resulted in success. For all Microsoft's chest thumping, strongarm tactics and hubris, Windows XP still has half again more market share than Windows 10, which is the number 3 Windows operating system. I think it's over.

[Rockin Robbins]

And the latest. What do you do when you cannot persuade people to buy your new products because they have devolved back to 1990? Well, you restrict, you bully, you try to force sales of items nobody wants. You stop selling your superior products to force buyers into the products they don't want. Has Microsoft jumped the shark?

Good Microsoft, Bad Microsoft (http://www.zdnet.com/article/ed-botts-weekly-wrap-good-microsoft-bad-microsoft-edition/)

[Jimbuna]

Neal,

This might be the answer to saving your limited bandwidth.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-stop-windows-10-spying-on-you/

I'm currently using that and as far as I can tell...so far so good.

[Skybird]

Reporting from my new installation with 2 HDs, and Linux Mint 17.2 Base installation and settings completed, now the data migration and finetuning and familiarization comes next, also the re-organization of those simulators. Everything runs fine and solid . I also noticed that I have a slightly faster data transmission rate from internet cable, I mean the net speed by which the stuff drips into my computer before I used to have 10-11 KB/sec, now it is 13-14. In parts that may be to currently no firewall and AntiVir in use.

Since I have both Windows and Linux on one system, I think it is a good idea to have some kind of security to safeguard against Linux hosting some nasties that may not damage itself, but Windows (which is the big problem with Linux, itself it seems to be quite immune, but it spreads a lot of anti-Windows stuff via servers, and windows and Linux data on one rig also is a problem (some say that this even is what speaks against using something like Wine). - Any ideas, Robbins?

As a short thanks for your feedback the past days, just this few minutes of beauty, since you seem to be interested in astronomy, too. You probably heard of it already, but this is one of the videos where it really shines in all its glory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovfhv_9-KIg

[Rockin Robbins]

Since I have both Windows and Linux on one system, I think it is a good idea to have some kind of security to safeguard against Linux hosting some nasties that may not damage itself, but Windows (which is the big problem with Linux, itself it seems to be quite immune, but it spreads a lot of anti-Windows stuff via servers, and windows and Linux data on one rig also is a problem (some say that this even is what speaks against using something like Wine). - Any ideas, Robbins?

In 10 years of running Linux beside Windows XP and 7 I haven't had any cross-fertilization of malware from my Linux to my Windows installation. I can't say that there is no way that it can happen, just that it hasn't. Of course my Windows is reasonably protected. But my feeling on the matter is that Linux is such a small target that the malware producers don't see any money in pursuing it.

As a short thanks for your feedback the past days, just this few minutes of beauty, since you seem to be interested in astronomy, too. You probably heard of it already, but this is one of the videos where it really shines in all its glory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovfhv_9-KIg

I installed it and my first inclination was "Wow!" And where dynamically generated fictitious worlds go, I still say that. But just like Stellarium, knowing too much kills the experience as you find that stuff is just made up of whole cloth and often doesn't agree at all with reality.

I took a journey to some galaxies I know well and found that they were often a completely different type than they really are. Nebulae in the Milky Way are not correct at all, but just a generic artistic representation of a nebulous blob. The Orion Nebula (M 42) is a travesty. Venus has no surface. NGC 4631, an irregular spiral is just a weird nebula when you get there. M 81 is the wrong kind of galaxy at the wrong angle in relation to the Milky Way, it is supposed to be a perfect face on spiral. M-51, probably one of the most distictive double nucleus spiral galaxies is just a generic spiral.

It would be much better as a Spore-like fictitious universe and then I would appreciate it rather than pick it apart so badly, but it really is out of its league when representing the real universe. Beautiful though, although that too comes from fiction, like Stellarium's sky, very artistic, not real at all.

In Stellarium, for one example, looking between the horns of Taurus with the clusters M35, M36, M37 and M38 in view you can see shown brightly, in color no less, faint nebulae that you'll never see in any amateur telescope, while the magnicent star clusters above, naked eye objects, are shown very indistinctly, faintly and if you don't know exactly where to look you'll never find them at all in Stellarium. Its sky is art, not objectivity. It is an illusion made irritation by knowledge.

[Skybird]

I was at a German Mint forum, where they helped me with minor issues indeed - but the moment I asked about security and linked this article:

https://www.av-test.org/en/news/news-single-view/linux-16-security-packages-against-windows-and-linux-malware-put-to-the-test/

they turned religious and it became personal in no time. Tried to stick to a calm tone myself and gave some points that really are reasonable, but it remained to be a poisonous environment from that moment on. Some attackers even followed me into two other threads.

The gospel is clear: It cannot be what should not be. We are the Linux, infidel!

I got warned about the missionary self-understanding of Linux users, now I got a taste of it.

I do not dramatize it, but I remember that Android once was seen this way too: safe, dont worry, we all keep good care. And today!? Nobody is laughing anymore if he is of a sane mind. The nastiness of Linux spreading Windows virusses while not even being aware that it does and not getting harmed itself, seems to be real, and at leasts on server level - another world I know, but still - 12700 botnet attacks in first quarter 2015 being staged from Linux servers and only 10300 by Windows servers is a clear message, I would say. In this regard, with these numbers, Linux is the greater risk for Windows users, than Windows servers are.

My more pragmatic concern is that I snap up a malware, no matter how, and it nests on my Linux partition somehow, and form there harms my Windows data graves, saved games etc. I will need a Linux scanner at least for once-in-a-while manual HD scans. I think reason demands this as a safety.

On Space Engine, keep in mind that it should become a game of any sort (I still cannot imagine what kind of game that should become, since there are no game elements included so far), and that it still is a Beta at best, if not Alpha. That it is not accurate in following astronomic and scientific data known, is forgivable. What it does is it gives with simply handling a very impressive idea of what dimensions and size scaling you face when dealing with this big thing we live in and call the "universe".

[Skybird]

Digital camera, printer (both Canon...) Webcam (Logitech) all work instantly and flawlessly in Mint. Only my scanner, a CanoScan 8400F, is not supported, and I learned during research that Canon seems to literally hate Linux (I assume the former two Canon devices run by generic, foreign drivers).

That scanner still is of excellent scanning quality and specialises for photography and photo negatives. It would be pleasant to have it easily available under Linux. Else I would need to do address my scanning needs (happens not often) under Windows, still.

SANE says they have no support for it. Any ideas, Robbin?

[Rockin Robbins]

Digital camera, printer (both Canon...) Webcam (Logitech) all work instantly and flawlessly in Mint. Only my scanner, a CanoScan 8400F, is not supported, and I learned during research that Canon seems to literally hate Linux (I assume the former two Canon devices run by generic, foreign drivers).

That scanner still is of excellent scanning quality and specialises for photography and photo negatives. It would be pleasant to have it easily available under Linux. Else I would need to do address my scanning needs (happens not often) under Windows, still.

SANE says they have no support for it. Any ideas, Robbin?
If it has a windows driver it can be used in Linux with THAT driver. I have to do some research. I had a HP 4050 Laserjet that had no Linux driver and got it to work fine.

Programming-wise Space Engine is a monumental achievement. It's hypnotic. If Spore were based on this engine it would be a hundred times better. Hope they get filthy rich.

Research complete! What you are looking for is NDISwrapper. It's a swiss army knife that lets you use Windows drivers in Linux. Worked great for me. Synaptic should have it available (just about everything is there.). Here's a generic article (http://www.howtogeek.com/213488/how-to-install-hardware-drivers-on-linux/) on the difference between Windows and Linux driver architecture. Installing Windows wireless drivers in Linux (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1890495)from Ubuntu forums.

Interestingly, when I hooked up Ubuntu 14.10, it automatically found all my hardware and just began using it. Windows 7? Not so much. I was sent on a treasure hunt. In many ways Linux is ahead of Windows in ease of use, believe it or not.

[Onkel Neal]

Neal,

This might be the answer to saving your limited bandwidth.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-stop-windows-10-spying-on-you/

Oh, thanks! :yeah:

I'm glad the author of the article addresses that some of these tools are worse than the MS data collection they claim to shut down.
Talk about taking what is a non-issue and blowing it up into a real problem! No self-respecting privacy tool should install adware onto a system. Period.

Jim, I assume you mean Spybot Anti-Beacon?

[Jimbuna]

.


Jim, I assume you mean Spybot Anti-Beacon?

Yep, got Steve on it too.

[HW3]

I am running it also. One button click on, one button click off, real easy to use.

[Skybird]

If it has a windows driver it can be used in Linux with THAT driver. I have to do some research. I had a HP 4050 Laserjet that had no Linux driver and got it to work fine.

Programming-wise Space Engine is a monumental achievement. It's hypnotic. If Spore were based on this engine it would be a hundred times better. Hope they get filthy rich.

Research complete! What you are looking for is NDISwrapper. It's a swiss army knife that lets you use Windows drivers in Linux. Worked great for me. Synaptic should have it available (just about everything is there.). Here's a generic article (http://www.howtogeek.com/213488/how-to-install-hardware-drivers-on-linux/) on the difference between Windows and Linux driver architecture. Installing Windows wireless drivers in Linux (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1890495)from Ubuntu forums.

Interestingly, when I hooked up Ubuntu 14.10, it automatically found all my hardware and just began using it. Windows 7? Not so much. I was sent on a treasure hunt. In many ways Linux is ahead of Windows in ease of use, believe it or not.
Thansk, but that stuff currently is too complex for me, and I am still busy with setting up other things (sim-related), so I take the shortcut and for the time being run a simple scanning option under Windows - for the one time per year that I need it.

Stellarium does not run stable for me. Also longer mp4 videos from HD do freeze. No clue whether it is VLC or something else.

The rest runs stable so far. At least so it seems.

[aanker]

May be of interest to Win 10 folks. The "clunky" name for the big update is explained in the comments too, in case you care:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3003381/microsoft-windows/kb-3105210-kb-3105213-windows-10-updates-lead-patch-tuesday-deluge.html

Any news on the KB numbers to avoid for Win 7 users? I've read at a couple places not to update Win 7 yet with this months patches.

I'll wait just to be safe - ha! .... isn't that awful? I don't trust MS any more.

[Rockin Robbins]

Well, it was update Tuesday yesterday and here's the news as I understand it today. Woody at askwoody.com (http://www.askwoody.com/) has instituted a MS-DEFCON system. As he has it:


MS-DEFCON 1 is Current Microsoft patches are causing havoc. Don't patch.
MS-DEFCON 2 is Patch reliability is unclear. Unless you have an immediate, pressing need to install a specific patch, don't do it.
MS-DEFCON 3 is Patch reliability is unclear, but widespread attacks make patching prudent. Go ahead and patch, but watch out for potential problems.
MS-DEFCON 4 is There are isolated problems with current patches, but they are well-known and documented here. Check this site to see if you're affected and if things look OK, go ahead and patch.
MS-DEFCON 5 is All's clear. Patch while it's safe.

Interestingly he has Windows 10 at MS-DEFCON 5. He says that the quality of the cumulative updates has been good. Lower the shields, take the cap off your internet connection and damn the torpedoes, full speed head. Download and install the updates. As if you had a choice.

But for Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 he has the alert at MS-DEFCON 2. Patch reliability is unclear. Unless you have specific problems that a patch relates to don't install.

So what's on the menu this month:
KB3100773 is a Internet Exploder update. It's huge. Exploder updates have also been very unreliable lately. Your fix is to switch to Firefox or Chrome and don't bother to download.

KB3097989, KB3097996, KB3098781 are all .NET Framework updates. Those have been clean for malicious software and generally safe. My personal recommendation is to greenlight those and install.

KB3081320, KB3092601, KB3100213, KB3101246, KB3101722, KB3101746 are labeled as Windows 7 x16 security updates. These are the ones that have been labled as security updates in the past but have depressingly often turned into malware, nagware and spyware. Although I know nothing specifically wrong about these particular updates not, I'm taking Woody's advice and not installing them now.

And then there's KB3097877. This is a baddie. It's been blamed for Outlook crashes, sign-in screen blackouts, Windows sidebar and gadgets are removed and Asus audio center dies. That's one to hide so it never gets offered again.

Also it appears that Microsoft has pulled KB3104540. If you have it on your download list, don't install that.

All this presupposes that you are in "trust Microsoft about as far as you can toss a hippopotamus" mode as I am and have turned automatic updates off. This is no time to start trusting Microsoft. They have a lot of 'splainin' to do before I trust 'em to tell me what time it is.

So there you have it for now. I'll keep you posted when I find something new.

[Skybird]

For W7 I now have formed the habit to install only program updates like Woodie advised for Explorer, also NET updates. All others I no longer download on the second Tuesday of the month, but let them wait until 2 or three days of the following "second Tuesday", when the next wave of updates would come in. This gives the tech world 4 weeks to assess and report on these updates. 2-3 days before the next month's updates come i8n and the list of updates to check grows longer and longer, I check the old ones one by one, and either install them or ban them. The latter is true for porked and broken updates as well as spyware and door-kickers.

Note that you cannot do this in the usual home-versions of W10, you can delay, but you cannot ban or refuse forever any updates MS decides that you should need to want.

---

Edit: oh look, at Robbin's site, I found this: http://www.askwoody.com/2015/consequences-handselecting-individual-win781-patches/ Seems I am not alone! :) Coming to my mind is the idea to maybe even stop updating W7 all together, since I do not surf or work in it anymore, only need it as a table on which to play my installed games. the risk of getting hit by malware that way maybe is smaller than the risk that MS poses. The last comment by ITSecGuy are worth tpo be kept on mind:


I have always been selective of patch deployments due to epic failures. Those epic failures being Servers being taken offline even after running them in a test environment. I also probably have more experience reading between the lines on the security bulletins.
A good example of this is KB3105256 the issue in the security bulletin states that in order to the Kerberos (This is the main security mechanism for windows) to be bypassed the following must occur:
“The bypass can be exploited only if the target system has BitLocker enabled without a PIN or USB key, the computer is domain-joined, and the attacker has physical access to the computer.”
In my situation none of the windows machines at home are part of a domain, HOWEVER….my main concern is that Kerberos can be circumvented. This is an update I could skip due to the fact that we don’t have bitlocker turned on, the machines are not on a domain. I have not verified what would happen if you used an automated tool such as metasploit to see if Kerberos could be circumvented across the network. I am however tempted to try this out to see if this can be done, however erring on the side of caution I’ll deploy this to the machines we have here.
The point is that I no longer trust what information is packed into KB/Security articles due to past behavior. Since Kerberos is a fundamental component for authentication I question whether or not this can only be circumvented by the variables presented.
For most of the readers here, the trick is to know what’s deployed on your systems and how these affected pieces inter-operate and that requires research unfortunately and as software complexity grows so does that effort.---

This makes reinstalling W7 a real time-consuming hassle these days. I did - the procedure to check them one by one taught me to hate MS even more. A company forcing me to do like this, deserves to fall and go down in flames. Neal said he wishes them to succeed with W10, once public beta testing is over in 1 or 2 years. I don't.

I tried for many years to balance my dislike for things MS did, with their sometimes good ergonomic design of their software products' user interfaces (while sometimes it is anything but ergonomic...). But that is no more so. Their intentional stepping above all red lines and their door-kicking methods to push W10 and spyware stuff onto my system, has forever changed that. If you enforce your entry against the declared will and the obviously demonstrated prevention methods of the owner of a place, home, system, then this is nothing else but BURGLARY. The keylogger thing is another Stasi thing that I am unforgiving about.

I do not wish this to succeed, because it is an espionage thing as well. These days, when American company leaders are threatened by American laws with up to 5 or 15 years (not sure which number it was, I think 15) in prison when they make known to the public that intel services of the US demanded them to implement "special features" into their software, any statement by such a manager that their software is "clean" and that they refuse to cooperate with the government, becomes a hollow word shell that means nothing anymore. The wide distribution of W10 globally, the known spying it conducts and its notorious phoning home, the Microsoft practices we have seen in the past months and two years, and the publicly announced policy by the NSA that it makes claim for having or getting access to every single installed computer system int he world, leaves no doubt - not even the smallest doubt - where the voyage goes, and that this W10 also is a tool of US policy support. You just have to add together one and one and one. The result necessarily is three. And that is no tinfoiled conspiracy theory, but just plain reason and logic deduction. Rejecting it compares to trying to argue that the US also is not flying drones around the globe with pilots sitting in the American mainland.

Don't be naive, guys. Its no conspiracy theory. Its the real world.

[Skybird]

Any news on the KB numbers to avoid for Win 7 users? I've read at a couple places not to update Win 7 yet with this months patches.

I'll wait just to be safe - ha! .... isn't that awful? I don't trust MS any more.
That is wise and the most reasonable option we are left with (second only to changing your OS completely).

Just do like I do: install only obvious updates to NET and installed software suites like Office (if you still think you need to use that). Personally, i would get rid of all software suites by Adobe and Microsoft.

Then, after second Tuesday in a month, WAIT. Lock your system so that background internet connections (clock synchronization etc) are also shut down. For W7 users, a tool like XP antispy which i repeatedly mentioned already, makes that a breeze: several dozen registry changes with just clicking a button. And switching them to their former state again with a click on a button. The software has an English interface available.

And not before 2 or 3 days before the second Tuesday of the following month check those updates of the former month, one by one, with a search engine (enter the KB number), and see what the search comes up with on page one.

Chances are that you will not filter out all baddies - but very many of them.

This way, the tech world has had 4 weeks of time to report any news worth to be known about files you then install - or better avoid. Just before the next month's updates come in.

Full autoupdating is not recommended anymore. Microsoft deserve no trust at all anymore. None. Zero.

[aanker]

Thanks Skybird

Thanks for the new numbers RR, much appreciated.

I found and deleted two more that came back I will hide again.

My list prior to today's posts by RR & Skybird

If I've made any mistakes, please let me know so I can edit this post.
------------------
Here's my list of past 'updates' that I've deleted & hid:
KB2952664
KB2976978
KB2977759
KB3022345
KB3035583
KB3050267
KB3055583
KB3068708
KB3075249
KB3080149
KB3083710
KB3090045
------------------
KB3021917 x deleted again
KB3083324 x deleted again
KB2952664 x deleted again
------------------

Over 50% of Windows users are still using Win 7 according to one pie chart I saw.

[Moonlight]

I have it on my hit list. :D
https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/kb/3021917#/en-gb/kb/3021917

[aanker]

Thanks Moonlight

Edit - yep, that KB3021917 took about an hour to delete.

I'm thinking of unplugging this computer from the internet and getting a cheap one to go online.

A BIG Thank You to you gracious people (who are checking this topic only for Win 10 info) for your patience with some of us who want to discuss & share the 'Black Tuesday' updates that are released every month by Microsoft.

This month appears to be a zero install for me and my Win 7 computer including the .NET updates. I'll do like Steed said below and wait until next month to install anything - unless there is breaking news.

[STEED]

I got 15 Important KB's on my list this month and ruled out six of them posted on here and will wait until next month to see how many more pop up as "nasty" along with 7 optional KB's on hold.

Thank goodness I switched off the auto updates.

[vienna]

Just helped someone do the Win 10 major November Update on a tablet; it took a while to download the update and to install, but there have been no problems thus far. The system does seem to have a bit more snap to it, but the big surprise was, after the install, the total space taken up on the C: drive is less than the amount taken up before the update; it appears MS has consolidated and streamlined some of the files...


<O>

[DragonRider]

Just helped someone do the Win 10 major November Update on a tablet; it took a while to download the update and to install, but there have been no problems thus far. The system does seem to have a bit more snap to it, but the big surprise was, after the install, the total space taken up on the C: drive is less than the amount taken up before the update; it appears MS has consolidated and streamlined some of the files...


<O>


Thank you for some useful information :up:

[Rockin Robbins]

Review: New Windows 10 version still can't beat Windows 7 (http://www.infoworld.com/article/3004038/microsoft-windows/review-new-windows-10-version-1511-still-cant-beat-windows-7.html)

Summary:


Edge is still a crippled browser. No improvements with v1511
Microsoft is now selling advertisement for your "start menu."
Improvements aren't. Example, Skype has been shattered into three separate "universal apps." That means cell phone apps that nobody wants. Can somebody please send Microsoft a name they can trademark that means "cell phone apps nobody wants"? Metro Modern and now Universal just are cheezy and lacking punch.
Sugested comedy: ask Cortana "Hey Cortana, show updates" if you want a good laugh.
Microsoft's welching on their promise of unlimited free One Drive space forever calls into question all their other promises, such as Windows 10 is free forever.

Windows 10 RTM held out a world of promise. Win10 version 1511 fills in only a few of the holes. Windows 8.1 users (particularly those tied to the keyboard and mouse) have every reason to jump to Windows 10 -- good riddance to bad interfaces. However, Windows 7 customers need to think carefully about the leap to Windows 10 version 1511.

As long as Edge remains so far behind in the browser wars, there's no reason to move to Win10 version 1511 for a better browser. Chrome and Firefox work nearly identically in Win7 and Win10.....
Thus far, there is simply no compelling reason to switch from Windows 7. But the biggest deterrent to would-be Windows 7 upgraders might be trust.

To take one example: While Windows 10 telemetry may be perfectly innocuous, other types of snooping are designed to improve Microsoft's ability to target ads. Microsoft is selling Bing ads based on this newfound Win10 mojo, and we're beginning to see the result. (Remember the ads that appeared briefly in the Weather app?) Those of you who use Chrome should understand the situation intimately.

A second example: While Microsoft says Windows 10 will be free "for the lifetime of the device," the recent reversal in OneDrive unlimited storage has many people wondering exactly what Windows 10 promises have been made and which ones are made to be broken.

And a third: Microsoft says it will give Win10 users the ability to hold back on patches -- and, further, it promises to start documenting the patches for an anointed subset of customers. But we haven't seen any of the concrete plans, much less followed the results.

All of these are good reasons for Windows 7 users to sit tight and see what unfolds.No good reason to upgrade. Lots of good reasons not to. My first move after buying a new computer would be to spend $100 and upgrade it to Windows 7 or just forget Microsloth and load up one of the great versions of Linux.

All the bought and sold commentators and reviewers are trying to stampede the low information computer user into thinking everyone has already installed Win 10 and if you haven't you're really some kind of a dork. There's been some of that here. But the truth is that Windows 10 is suffering from very low adoption rates. What's the position according to Marketshare.com? As of 11/16/15:
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/screenshot.421_zpsnjwsinuq.jpg (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/RockinRobbins13/media/screenshot.421_zpsnjwsinuq.jpg.html)

What's that? Almost twice the number of Windows XP users as Windows 10? Windows 8 and 8.1 users at 13% compared to Windows 10 under 8% of total users? Don't get stampeded into a bad move. Windows 7 is your place to be if you want to run Windows. I don't expect that to change at least for a year. When it does change I expect the best move to be a Linux version.

[DragonRider]

One thing I still find very annoying is that I have to boot up the machine and then restart it
For Windows 10 to fully start all the functions that my board needs to run at full speed.
I am getting sick of keep seeing the error 40 showing on my board.
I know some of you will say it doesn’t matter that that code is showing well I’m sorry but if
You do not have the right code showing at start up you cannot log in to Windows 10 using the
Digit code because you key board has not been recognized properly also part of you ram will not work as it should.
You may even get a system warning about this. Also you sound card and graphics card will not function properly something to do with usb 3.0.
Although saying all of this once it boots up right all is good.
So honestly I think I will expand that blue area on your graph today.


p.s Sorry for the bad grammar Steve :oops:

[Rockin Robbins]

Frankly I've found Ubuntu (and it qualifies for the whole family of Ubuntu derivatives) recognizes hardware and just automatically puts it to work, where even Windows 7 can be a challenge with my Wacom Graphire 4 tablet.

[DragonRider]

Frankly I've found Ubuntu (and it qualifies for the whole family of Ubuntu derivatives) recognizes hardware and just automatically puts it to work, where even Windows 7 can be a challenge with my Wacom Graphire 4 tablet.

That's cool.:up:
Just as I was about to uninstall Windows 10 I decided to look into the problem for one last go.
And what do you know its now sorted.

Problem solved for Gigabyte error code D4 and Asus error code 04.
Once you have Windows 10 or 8.1 fully installed restart your system and go into the Boot menu and disable the fast boot option.
Also after loading Windows 10 or 8.1 go to the power options and select choose what the power buttons do.
Click the change settings that are currently available/unavailable and then un-tick the fast start up option.
This should solve the problem :hmmm:

[vienna]

I have found there are various problems with third party hardware and software with Windows 10, but, as newer updates/upgrades are released by MS, a very large number of them are being resolved. A great proportion of problems I have seen are caused by the third party publishers, themselves, by being lax about releasing drivers and/or patches for their devices or software to keep them compatible with Windows 10. The general rule of OS upgrades still applies, no mater which OS you use: if there is a significant upgrade or new issue of an OS, always check the support sites for the third party hardware and/or software you use on your system. There are some things even the most comprehensive of OSs can't possibly cover and third party compliance is high on the list...

What does irk me is how a lot of the larger publishers seem to make it a point of not issuing patches or driver for newer OSs apparently to force existing users to have to go out and buy a whole new version of their product. I tend to keep loyalty with publishers who don't forget their long time users and customers; I tend not to patronize those who are trying to squeeze more money out their customers...


<O>

[HW3]

:agree: with vienna.

[DragonRider]

That's cool.:up:
Just as I was about to uninstall Windows 10 I decided to look into the problem for one last go.
And what do you know its now sorted.

Problem solved for Gigabyte error code D4 and Asus error code 04.
Once you have Windows 10 or 8.1 fully installed restart your system and go into the Boot menu and disable the fast boot option.
Also after loading Windows 10 or 8.1 go to the power options and select choose what the power buttons do.
Click the change settings that are currently available/unavailable and then un-tick the fast start up option.
This should solve the problem :hmmm:

This problem is nothing to do with drivers. The reason this problem arises is because
When you tell window 8.1 or 10 to shut down it goes into a low power sleep mode and
When you power on it just wakes. This is called fast boot and this is what causes the error codes
On Gigabyte and Asus motherboards (code D4 and 04) .
If you follow the above change of settings it forces Window to really shut down so it has to do a
Full boot up on System start hence no error codes are shown :03:

[DragonRider]

That's cool.:up:
Just as I was about to uninstall Windows 10 I decided to look into the problem for one last go.
And what do you know its now sorted.

Problem solved for Gigabyte error code D4 and Asus error code 04.
Once you have Windows 10 or 8.1 fully installed restart your system and go into the Boot menu and disable the fast boot option.
Also after loading Windows 10 or 8.1 go to the power options and select choose what the power buttons do.
Click the change settings that are currently available/unavailable and then un-tick the fast start up option.
This should solve the problem :hmmm:



It seems that on the newer Gigabyte Boards you also have to disable the wake by LAN settings found in the bios settings
as well or windows will just keep turning back on with the above settings activated. :doh:

[Skybird]

More good news for W10 users.

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/19/microsoft-rena-and-telemetry/

MS seems to frequently reset settings made by the user (to lock out sniffing "services" from MS) back to default (=totally vulnerable system), and has dodged criticism of its Diagnostic Tracking by - renaming it, to avoid users being aware of it, and so to bypass their guard. A company's war of attrition against customers who impertinently refuse to obey its demands.

Last market numbers from this week show that W7 still claims over half of the market, and that W10 still is just fourth - still behind XP, and W8.

I wonder whether one should ask Anonymous to hack Microsft and erase their Windows, cloud and developement servers. Sounds like a jolly good idea to me. People will never forget that again, because most will be feeling the pain from that. And MS hopefully would seize to exist as a living company after suffering such a blow.

[Rockin Robbins]

Does Microsoft wish to be hated?. Can they actually believe that they can insult their customers and suffer no consequences? Or have they been infiltrated by Apple management who want to kill Microsoft? Or do they not care about the good will of Informed customers and only want those stupid enough to be easily fooled?

It is really difficult to imagine any plausible motivation for Microsoft's baffling behavior.

[Skybird]

They simply think they will get away with it, while keeping the prey of their stunt.

And by the reaction of the majority, they probably are right with that. In the longer run.

The willingness of so many people to still spend endless time (or not to care at all) to fiddle with their Microsoft installations, is absolutely discouraging for me. And this although the endless flood of ever more patches and repairs every month only shows one thing: how wrecked and insufficient and broken this OS from all beginning on is.

Heck, not even the immense security holes in Flash and Java make the majority of people think. Why then wondering about them still wishing that Windows will succeed?

[Rockin Robbins]

Well, it shows the way forward for Ask Toolbar and Conduit homepage hijack and ad server. They just need to change their names to Goggle and Affirmative Security Friend.

[Rockin Robbins]

Latest Microsloth news: the Windows 10 v1511 ISO disk image has been pulled from Microsoft's website. If you are installing Win 10 you must first download the entire obsolete version from July and then download the equally huge 1511 November update via Windows Update whenever it decides to offer it to you. Not satisfied with our default service scorn, they work extra hard to EARN it.
http://www.computerworld.com/article/3007406/windows-pcs/microsoft-yanks-windows-10-november-upgrade-from-download-site.html

Apple couldn't have a more effective advertising campaign. But Linux is your real solution.

[Rockin Robbins]

Do you have Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 and do not want to downgrade to Windows 10? Do you want to make SURE that you aren't forced into voluntarily downloading Windows 10?

Improved GWX Control Panel does an even better job at keeping Windows 10 off your PC (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/17/improved-gwx-control-panel-does-an-even-better-job-at-keeping-windows-10-off-your-pc/)

Microsoft plans to make the Windows 10 upgrade recommended in Windows Update (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/10/30/beware-microsoft-plans-to-push-windows-10-on-even-more-windows-7-and-8-systems/) a recommended and therefore automatically installed update for most people. GWX Control Panel can shut that plan down.

Put Microsoft on a level with Sony, Congress, used car salesmen and the TV weather babe on your trust list.

[aanker]

Thank you again RR. Please continue to post these 'updates' related to Win 10, KB numbers, helpful solutions, etc.

In the future I won't take up space in this topic by thanking you publicly each time you post, but want you to know that I am grateful for the information that you provide. I know I'm not alone : )

So, Thank You for this, and any future info.

Regards,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
GWX Control Panel ver 1.6:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/ptcbupers/GWX-Control_Panel_2_zpslyacvj43.jpg

[STEED]

Thanks for the update news RR. :up:

I got two differences with the GWX image above..

Are Windows Update OS upgrades enabled (NO)

And

Enable Operating System Upgrades In Windows Update (Disabled)


I think it would be better to branch off with a new thread to deal with MS's KB updates on all the Windows below Win10 and leave this one solely for Win10.

[Onkel Neal]

From Forbes: Microsoft Makes Windows 10 Automatic Spying Worse (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/24/windows-10-automatic-spying-begins-again/)

:nope:

Earlier this month Microsoft finally went on record admitting that automatic spying within Windows 10 cannot be stopped. This sparked a lot of outrage and with ‘Threshold 2’ it appeared Microsoft had done a sharp U-turn because the background service at the heart tracking (the ‘Diagnostics Tracking Service’ aka ‘DiagTrack’) appeared to have been removed. Critics celebrated and it was another well deserved pat on the back for Microsoft.

Except it turns out Microsoft had just been very sneaky. What Tweakhound discovered and was subsequently confirmed by BetaNews, is Microsoft simply renamed DiagTrack. It is now called the ‘Connected User Experiences and Telemetry Service’ – which is both a) deliberately vague, and b) misleading (don’t ‘Connected User Experiences’ sound great).


.
Windows 10 November update was pulled for forgetting privacy settings; it’s now back (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/11/windows-10-november-update-was-pulled-for-forgetting-privacy-settings-its-now-back/)
The mystery behind the removal of the Windows 10 November Update, version 1511, has been revealed. Last week Microsoft received reports that, when upgrading from the Windows 10 July release to the November update, four privacy-related settings were getting reset to their default values. Concerned that there might be a significant problem, Microsoft removed the November Update from Windows Update for existing Windows 10 users and also removed the updated Media Creation Tool used to create install media.

When upgrading from the initial Windows 10 release to the new version, four settings (whether to allow apps to use a unique advertiser ID, which apps are allowed to run in the background, whether Smartscreen Web filtering is enabled, and whether settings sync between devices) were reverted to their defaults, as if a fresh Windows installation had been performed. While for most users this made no difference, for those who'd disabled those features previously, the upgrade would silently revert those choices.

Oddly, upgrading from Windows 7 or 8 to Windows 10 wasn't affected, and the November Update was still being rolled out over Windows Update to people upgrading from those operating systems. Only those already on Windows 10 were affected.

Microsoft has now fixed the upgrade/installation process to properly preserve these settings, and the November Update has once more been made available to Windows 10 users through Windows Update. The updated Media Creation Tool has also been restored, re-enabling clean installs of version 1511. The company has also published a knowledge-base article describing the issue and which settings are affected, so any Windows 10 users who have already installed the November Update can double-check their settings and re-establish their preference if necessary.

[Catfish]

You cannot stop Win 10 spying, unless you have the Enterprise version.

Nice business model.

[Onkel Neal]

"inadvertently":har:

[Rockin Robbins]

Neal, I think STEED seems on first glance to have a good idea in separating the Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 preservation material from the Wndows 10 material. But on further thought that is the wrong thing to do. I personally think that the thing you need to know about Windows 10 IS to keep Windows 7 or move to Linux, but maybe I'm wrong an STEED is right.

My position is that Windows 10 is not a fixable thing. Fixing Windows 10 is trying to turn a puppy into a kitten. I think Microsoft has shown enough bad faith to disqualify them as the vendor of a new operating system.

So, moving the Windows 7 preservation posts to a new thread removes "What you need to know about Windows 10" from the thread of that name. Moving the posts about moving to Linux is the same thing.

Every strategy we can come up with to defang Win 10 will be answered. Suppose we use our routers to shut down Microsoft's telemetry servers. They can't use Windows to defeat that, can they? Of course they can, by moving telemetry to the update server so that if you shut it down you lose essential security upgrades.

If a company is intent on doing evil, and Microsoft is, your only wise choice is to avoid their products. Staying with Windows 7 is essentially avoiding their products and shutting down their income stream. Our only power to restrain them is the power of the purse. Loudly retain your cash and jingle it loudly. Want that money? Do what we want. Microsoft's job is to serve us, not to prey upon us. One gets them life. The other gets them death. Hope they choose wisely.

We are the Customers. Our name is spelled with a Captial C. We demand respect for our privacy. We demand that your product serve us. We refuse to purchase products which prey upon us. Every penny you make is because of the service that you provide the Customer. When that service is not rendered you die. Others will gladly take your position and we will not miss you.

[Rockin Robbins]

You cannot stop Win 10 spying, unless you have the Enterprise version.

Nice business model.
Actually, that is not true. It is possible to have a comprehensive fix that keeps Microsoft from ALL spying. My goto guy here is Barnacles Nerdgasm on You Tube. A former 15 year Microsoft employee in the Windows test division (his ENTIRE division was axed--tells you something, doesn't it?), he is a systems programmer who definitely knows more than I do.

This video is 35 minutes long but there is at least 90 minutes worth of good solid information here. Replay value is immense. My scariest takeaway is that he showed how to use your hosts file to block the Bing search engine completely. But Edge actually ignores your privacy settings and bypasses the hosts file to access Bing directly. "Customer preference be damned!"

A close second place scary revelation was that updates routinely change your privacy settings. You don't know when the update happens and Microsoft has no respect for your choices.

The good news is that by following this video, you can shut off ALL the Microsoft Windows 10 privacy invasions and return your desktop operating system to the job of helping you. I would take the process just one step further.

After you're done, use Notepad to load up the Hosts file. Look in the section of changes made by Anti-Beacon and copy all the sites turned off in the hosts file. Now take it for granted that Microsoft's next move will be to screw you, you have no right to make choices.

Simply deny access to those sites through your router blacklist. That takes access out of the ability of Microsoft to restore. It's the only change I'd make to Barnacles' recommendations.

https://youtu.be/u1kGMCfb2xw

[Rockin Robbins]

You cannot stop Win 10 spying, unless you have the Enterprise version.

Nice business model.
Actually, that is not true. It is possible to have a comprehensive fix that keeps Microsoft from ALL spying. My goto guy here is Barnacles Nerdgasm on You Tube. A former 15 year Microsoft employee in the Windows OS test division (his ENTIRE department was axed--tells you something, doesn't it?), he is a systems programmer who definitely knows more than I do.

This video is 35 minutes long but there is at least 90 minutes worth of good solid information here. Replay value is immense. My scariest takeaway is that he showed how to use your hosts file to block the Bing search engine completely. But Edge actually ignores your privacy settings and bypasses the hosts file to access Bing directly. "Customer preference be damned!"

A close second place scary revelation was that updates routinely change your privacy settings. You don't know when the update happens and Microsoft has no respect for your choices.

The good news is that by following this video, you can shut off ALL the Microsoft Windows 10 privacy invasions and return your desktop operating system to the job of helping you. I would take the process just one step further.

After you're done, use Notepad to load up the Hosts file. Look in the section of changes made by Anti-Beacon and copy all the sites turned off in the hosts file. Now take it for granted that Microsoft's next move will be to screw you, you have no right to make choices.

Simply deny access to those sites through your router blacklist. That takes access out of the ability of Microsoft to restore. It's the only change I'd make to Barnacles' recommendations.

https://youtu.be/u1kGMCfb2xw

[Skybird]

Microsoft knows its OS, and has far more resources to learn about it if that would be needed, than any whistleblower, so Microsoft always will claim lead again, and us needing to react. They can, want and will penetrate any defences by users, catching some of them with every new round played.

Its like what I reported earlier on those W7 updates that kept on coming in while Windows Updates service already had been SHUT DOWN by me - not before I also shut down all known background services that frequently connect to the web but have nothing to do with windows updating, these updates stopped from coming in after short while again. Obviously these services ports were used in any way to smuggle in these updates OUTSIDE the official windows updates. Clock, error messaging, online synchronisation, and what else there is running in the background - switch it all off under W7 to your best abilities. - GWX told me two days ago that it found nothing, that no file and folder and installer was detected. I must have done some things right with my manual update file scanning. :yep: But its a PITA.

Keep the updates on things coming, Robbins, and thank you for it. I am absolutely aware that you know much more about these things than I do. The site you recommended and linked to some days ago already is a great help, I currently scan it frequently.

[Skybird]

I would recommend to make sure NOW that you can run W7 for years to come even if you need to reinstall and need to activate Windows.

In a clear case of self defence I could imagine that people might accept to use illegal hacks to activate their legally owned and paid-for copy of W7. That is the first thing needed.

The second is to find a download with the SP1 from a sources not related to MS, SP1 for W7 essentially is nothing more than a collection of 200+ updates from earlier times that stem from a time before W8 was on the horizon. Download that now and keep it. I have no doubt that SP1 downloads via Microsoft in the future, or already now?, will be infested by Microsoft with W10-related poison. When reinstalling your system, use this download from DVD to technically update W7 to a stabvle standard that all games accept - and then PULL THE PLUG, so that MS cannot drive contemporary or future download-dents into it in an effort to corrupt it and make people migrate to W10. Do not do any further updates beyond SP1.

This advise is meant for people like myself, who just need Windows 7 as a starting platform for their games. Also those using specific software for their profession where they do not need online connectivity. Musical software and MIDI, for example. Needless to say that you better do not surf with such an outdaqted version of Windows. Surf with a dual boot's second OS, Linux or whatever. W7 boot is just kept by you to launch your games from it. THAT IS ALL YOU DO WITH IT.

For all non-gaming things - go dual boot, and with another OS. Leave Windows behind. Avoid software that depends on Windows. For the non-professional computer user, there is no argument to stay loyal to Windows, the normal private online needs and tasks can be as well served by Linux and software for it.

I would stay away from all games depending on W10 in the future, or W8. The key is to stick to W7 - and seal your rig off. And that goes beyond just switching of Windows Updates.

Online players may hate it, but do not complainh to me - complain to Microsoft.

[Onkel Neal]

Oh joy. Without warning, many of my Windows 10 settings have been disabled. I have a red line of text in many settings windows saying Some settings are managed by your organization. WTF, MS, I am the organization. :/\\!!

Windows Home edition, no group policy editor.

Anyone else seeing this? It was not there before today, and now I am seeing a lot of privacy and Update options are no longer available to me, such as Defer Upgrades.

[Skybird]

Those privacy options where dummy switches anyway, so don't cry. :D

BTW, its not that you are the organization as you said. You are THEIR organization, and your computer is theirs. ;)

[STEED]

Sorted. :03:



You are THEIR product, and your computer is theirs. ;)

No charge. :DL

[Rockin Robbins]

Oh joy. Without warning, many of my Windows 10 settings have been disabled. I have a red line of text in many settings windows saying Some settings are managed by your organization. WTF, MS, I am the organization. :/\\!!

Windows Home edition, no group policy editor.

Anyone else seeing this? It was not there before today, and now I am seeing a lot of privacy and Update options are no longer available to me, such as Defer Upgrades.

Neal, it's time to spend about $70.00 and buy a copy of Windows 7 Pro 64 while you still can.

In the meantime person number two has appeared on Subsim who is successfully playing SH4 in Ubuntu Linux. I'm going to investigate, do it myself and post instructions your cat could follow.

[Rockin Robbins]

Oh joy. Without warning, many of my Windows 10 settings have been disabled. I have a red line of text in many settings windows saying Some settings are managed by your organization. WTF, MS, I am the organization. :/\\!!

Windows Home edition, no group policy editor.

Anyone else seeing this? It was not there before today, and now I am seeing a lot of privacy and Update options are no longer available to me, such as Defer Upgrades.

Neal if you are using Spybot Antibeacon those messages about management are the result of Antibeacon blocking privacy leaks. If that be the case please watch the video I linked above.

[Onkel Neal]

Thanks, Steve. Good info, and I am going to get a copy of 7 Pro for christmas. Insurance, just in case :up:

I hope Microsoft gets credit for its part in making the PC a rare item in homes. Sure, tablets, smart phones, and Chromebooks have won folks over with their overall excellence, but the thought of relearning the desktop interface yet again has made untold millions of consumers skip past the PC section at the stores.

Well said. http://www.computerworld.com/article/3009440/windows-pcs/windows-10s-usage-share-lead-over-windows-7-evaporates.html

Neal if you are using Spybot Antibeacon those messages about management are the result of Antibeacon blocking privacy leaks. If that be the case please watch the video I linked above.

I see I downloaded it at some point but it does not appear to be installed, cannot find it in add/remove programs. I am using ShutUp, and when I reset it to factory settings and rebooted, the Some settings..." message went away. Still do not understand what happened to the Defer Upgrades option, did I imagine it? :timeout:

[Rockin Robbins]

In Windows 10 Home you should not have had a "defer upgrades" option at all, even before the "upgrade."

And there are a few tweaks you must make to your computer before you insttall Windows 7, the biggest being you have to undo UEFI and restore your computer to using BIOS bootup. The exact procedure varies from computer to computer but I haven't seen it really difficult to do on any I've operated on.

[Onkel Neal]

I know this is a dumb question, but to install Win 7, and remove Win 10, I have to....reformat the c drive first? If not, will installing Win 7 affect my hard drive contents and programs?:dead:

[Aktungbby]

Bottom line here, gentlemen, since I'm not a computer guy: I keep getting these obnoxious upload offers on my Windows-7 for Windows-10. Should I or not: your learned opinions sirs!! I'm not hearing total happiness in the forum and suspect I can live without it.

[Jimbuna]

There are those for and those against.

I pondered for a few months before switching and don't appear to be having any problems but no doubt there will be those who say otherwise.

Your choice.

[STEED]

There are those for and those against.

I pondered for a few months before switching and don't appear to be having any problems but no doubt there will be those who say otherwise.

Your choice.

Apart from the fact MS has a cabinet full of your info. :03:

Dear MS how much are you charging for jim's info, more to the point where is his stash of chilly beef pot noodle? :hmm2:

[Rockin Robbins]

Early next year, Microsoft will tap the Windows 10 upgrade so it automatically downloads to consumer PCs and even begin the installation process. (http://www.computerworld.com/article/3009440/windows-pcs/windows-10s-usage-share-lead-over-windows-7-evaporates.html)

Windows 10 adoption rate has now dropped below that adoption rate for Windows 7 the same number of days after introduction. In addition, see the above. In spite of completely predatory push to get everyone to use a free product, they can't equal the sales of a $100 item. Pretty sad.

Like I said, Microsoft has probably jumped the shark on this one.

[STEED]

My neighbor went from Win7 to Win10 and after two weeks now wants to go back to Win7 nothing to do with the Win10 snooping he just hates the look of it.

[Aktungbby]

Windows 10 adoption rate has now dropped below that adoption rate for Windows 7 the same number of days after introduction. In addition, see the above. In spite of completely predatory push to get everyone to use a free product, they can't equal the sales of a $100 item. Pretty sad.
Actually when I tapped the "later BBY" as opposed to the "now " button, it started down-loading.:nope: I was pissed at the BigBrother pushiness and blew ballast ASAP: ALT/CNTR/DEL to prevent an unwanted intrusion! IT's free now: My mantra is: "The sweetness of price (free)is often made bitter later by the poorness of quality.":shucks: and I hate repeat lessons from an industry that operate$ on the profit motive-at my expense...:hmmm:

[Rockin Robbins]

I know this is a dumb question, but to install Win 7, and remove Win 10, I have to....reformat the c drive first? If not, will installing Win 7 affect my hard drive contents and programs?:dead:
Even though it's a true upgrade, there is no upgrade path from Windows 10 to Windows 7. Also the different boot systems, UEFI vs BIOS means that the drive is formatted differently. That means at the very least that your partitions have to be resized for the introduction of the BIOS dependent Master Boot Record (MBR) on your boot disk.

But even if you did that you would lose your programs and data on installation. So first, download Belarc Advisor and run it, printing out its entire output. Belarc gives you a complete inventory of hardware and software on your machine. This will give you all the software on your machine along with any software licenses and authorization keys. Then you get an alphabetical list of every piece of installed software.

Secondly, locate all your data and back it up. I always make a total disk image, so if I forget some data hidden away in an unexpected place I can copy it back later.

Thirdly you'll have to get rid of UEFI and reinstitute the BIOS routines in your computer. UEFI is a Microsoft scheme to make it as difficult as possible to use competitive operating systems, including their own Windows 7.

Then you want to do a clean install of Windows 7, install all your software (you have a great checklist, thanks to Belarc, so you don't miss any). Finally, copy all your data back into the right places in your freshly upgraded Windows 7 system.

It's fairly complicated but isn't difficult. And the result will be that your operating system will serve your needs instead serving you for dinner. The Twilight Zone episode "To Serve Man" said all you need to know about Windows 10.

[aanker]

On my next computer, my plan is to find/build a decent (old school) gaming rig, put in a blank hard drive after getting and burning the necessary drivers the future computer needs, and install Win 7 on it.

That $70.00 bucks I spent a few months ago seems worthwhile after reading these and other posts. The disk is ready and waiting.

[Rockin Robbins]

I hate repeat lessons from an industry that operate$ on the profit motive-at my expense...:hmmm:
Now let's not make this into some anti-capitalism crusade. Granted, capitalism is the worst system in the world to benefit all the people living under it, if you first eliminate EVERY OTHER ECONOMIC SYSTEM ON EARTH.

Capitalism is the free exchange of money for goods and services without coercion, subterfuge, fraud, or compulsion on either side. Legitimate profit is the product of service to humanity to the standards of those being served. As soon as you introduce compulsion (Obamacare) or coercion (Mafia protection) or fraud (homeopathic medicine) you no longer have capitalism, you have organized crime. In true capitalism both the production and consumption ends of the spectrum are purely voluntary with purchases made out of free will and products made to attract people to gladly spend their money.

Evidence of a true capitalistic exchange if if someone buys an Apple iPhone for double what it's really worth, then braggs about it to all their friends, who buy iPhones for themselves. Think what you want about iPhones (I don't buy Apple products) but this is what capitalism does. Even China is a major market for iPhones and they're not exacly capitalists, are they?

Capitalism has done more good for humanity than all other economic systems combined and will continue to do so in spite of the warpage bad people put on it.

[Aktungbby]

Now let's not make this into some anti-capitalism crusade. Granted, capitalism is the worst system in the world to benefit all the people living under it, if you first eliminate EVERY OTHER ECONOMIC SYSTEM ON EARTH.

Capitalism is the free exchange of money for goods and services without coercion, subterfuge, fraud, or compulsion on either side. Legitimate profit is the product of service to humanity to the standards of those being served. As soon as you introduce compulsion (Obamacare) or coercion (Mafia protection) or fraud (homeopathic medicine) you no longer have capitalism, you have organized crime. In true capitalism both the production and consumption ends of the spectrum are purely voluntary with purchases made out of free will and products made to attract people to gladly spend their money.

Evidence of a true capitalistic exchange if if someone buys an Apple iPhone for double what it's really worth, then braggs about it to all their friends, who buy iPhones for themselves. Think what you want about iPhones (I don't buy Apple products) but this is what capitalism does. Even China is a major market for iPhones and they're not exacly capitalists, are they?

Capitalism has done more good for humanity than all other economic systems combined and will continue to do so in spite of the warpage bad people put on it.
:har: OH! a pro-capitalism crusade! Always acceptable!:O: I'll have a Manhattan wid 'dat!https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/Einstein_tongue.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/Einstein_tongue.jpg)

[AVGWarhawk]

I had Cyberpower make me a new computer. Windows 10 was loaded. No bloatware. I'm not a cheerleader for Windows 10 nor find it that great or better than any previous OS versions with exception of Windows 8. Hell, my computer with Vista was a great machine. At any rate, Windows 10 is going to be on your drive before long because support of OS past lose just that....support. And, no, I do not care that MS is collecting or has my information. Three credit bureaus have my information. The DMV has my information. Hell, my first call to Farmers for car insurance the agent told me in under a minute what cars I currently own. I only gave him my license number. I could find on the internet my past home addresses for the last 3 decades long before Windows 10 arrived. I'm not really sure the Rise of the Guardians is being presented here. Your info is out there already.

[Aktungbby]

I'm not really sure the Rise of the Guardians is being presented here. Your info is out there already. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/image.php?u=219772&dateline=1377884772 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=219772) <no wonder u love that car! ....no damn computer!:woot:i just had to replace a cracked motherboard on my '05 Corolla fuel computer...couldn't reregister it until obeying the recall notice...instantly cleared on the SMOG station's computer!:timeout: I don't mind being owned I just wanna know who owns me!:wah: The FastPasses for the bridges are monitor'd now on all CA highway sensor to study traffic patterns and similar 'study camera's record your license plate #such info to be used...privately!!!:nope: Jack Aubrey: " What a fascinating modern age we live in" rings a little ironically, as my wife and I enjoy the electronic Aubrey novels, blue-toothed to the car's speakers from her tablet on long trips.:arrgh!:

[AVGWarhawk]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/image.php?u=219772&dateline=1377884772 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=219772) <no wonder u love that car! ....no damn computer!:woot:i just had to replace a cracked motherboard on my '05 Corolla fuel computer...couldn't reregister it until obeying the recall notice...instantly cleared on the SMOG station's computer!:timeout: I don't mind being owned I just wanna know who owns me!:wah: The FastPasses for the bridges are monitor'd now on all CA highway sensor to study traffic patterns and similar 'study camera's record your license plate #such info to be used...privately!!!:nope: Jack Aubrey: " What a fascinating modern age we live in" rings a little ironically, as my wife and I enjoy the electronic Aubrey novels, blue-toothed to the car's speakers from her tablet on long trips.:arrgh!:

The 54 Buick is a very dependable 60 year old vehicle. Has never let me down. However, today's vehicles are a far cry better in many regards.

The tolls here in MD also record your tag as you pass through the booth. And, if you don't pay at the Easypass booth a nice letter with picture plus a balance due is sent to your home.

Your's truly getting a top 25 award at a car show that had 650+ entries:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/Warhawk1-avg/FB_20150822_20_37_23_Saved_Picture_zpsb3zkijm6.jpg

[aanker]

....... Three credit bureaus have my information. The DMV has my information. Hell, my first call to Farmers for car insurance the agent told me in under a minute what cars I currently own. I only gave him my license number. I could find on the internet my past home addresses for the last 3 decades long before Windows 10 arrived. I'm not really sure the Rise of the Guardians is being presented here. Your info is out there already.
It doesn't need to be. You can get your exposed information removed from 95% of all of your public listings if you don't mind doing a little cleaning, or hire an outfit like https://www.safeshepherd.com/ to remove your exposed personal information.
The Government records are difficult to scrub, but we're mostly talking about collection of personal data for targeted advertising and other non Gov't information uses.
I like my privacy. I like old Buick's too : )
Congratulations BTW, you deserve that award from exterior appearances in the above photo.

[Skybird]

On my next computer, my plan is to find/build a decent (old school) gaming rig, put in a blank hard drive after getting and burning the necessary drivers the future computer needs, and install Win 7 on it.

That $70.00 bucks I spent a few months ago seems worthwhile after reading these and other posts. The disk is ready and waiting.

Good plan, so did I just two weeks ago. Just be sure you do as I recommended earlier and update Win7 to SP1 standard via a patch collection from a non-MS source, then keep that rig isolated from the web as far as possible. If you still do Windows 7 updates then (for as long as they are still coming), do them always manually only, never automatically, and hand-select them with time delay, after investigating their numbers. MS abuses more and more of these &quot;harmnless&quot; updates as carriers for infesting your W7 with W10 related stuff and spyware. For your surfing needs, go dual boot and Linux. Same regarding all non-game software, as long as you find alternatives for Windows software under Linux. For image editing, there is Gimp (and some more), for office work and text editing, there is Libre Office (which i like more than Open Office). As long as you are no specialised pro using some specialised software, you do not need Windows. Heck even most Windows servers I think are running under Linux. Ordinary private users just writing letters, ordering online, surfing internet newspapers, and sorting their photos, also do not need Windows. --- In the end, W10 is a pest with pre-announcement. We could have seen it coming, if only we would have wanted to see it. And some of us - a minority - have. People never cared for MS getting worse and worse, and so helped MS to get strong enough to now dominate an almost monopolised market. Those people not having been critical - get what they deserve with W10. If you help to build monopoles like this, even if you just do not care fopr them getting built, do not complain if you get bitten by it later on. I am all for capitalism, but even although capitalism seems to have an inbuild tendency for monopole-building, monopoles are the death of capitalism. Like life has a tendency to get old, weak, ill, and finally dies. We cannot avoid it, still we better fight against it: true for death, true for monopoles. And always comes new life, and hopefully always monopoles get destroyed sooner or later - if needed: even by force and violence. But those people who today say they do not care about W10, will be the same who also do not mind to get chips transplanted under their skin or bar codes printed into their necks. Always assuming the best and boastign with their "optimism", they are invulnerable to any historically precedent serving as an exmaple for how evil and criminal monpopolists and governments can become - and sooner or later always seem to become for sure.

[Jeff-Groves]

I don't have a problem with Win 10 or the spying crap.
If you don't want anyone to know what your doing stay off the 'Net!
I type in all kinds of crap in a search just to set up an insanity defense myself.
:haha:

See. I know people are watching. I'm just not paranoid about it.
I got nothing to hide aside from the few hookers I choked to death.
They'll never find them as deep as I buried them in Pearland.
:03:

[Rockin Robbins]

The problem is that the primary function of an operating system should be to quietly organize your options and help you run the software on your computer. As recently as Windows 7,Windows did that.

Now the primary function of Windows is to try to sell you stuff. More than half the tiles on what used to be your start menu are advertising.

The secondary function of Windows 10 is data collection. It is a keylogger. It records audio from your microphone even when you are not using a program which uses the microphone. They do the same thing with your webcam. Then twice a day all that collected information is compacted, encrypted and sent to Microsoft. Equating that with information provided to insurance companies is really ludicrous. We're talking about invasion of privacy way beyond anything reasonable. Then add in the p2p style update system where your bandwidth is used to upload updates to complete strangers at your expense, the automatic login of people on various friends lists to your personal wireless network--all this adds up to an OS which no longer serves its customers. It preys upon them.

[Aktungbby]

The problem is that the primary function of an operating system should be to quietly organize your options and help you run the software on your computer. As recently as Windows 7,Windows did that.

Now the primary function of Windows is to try to sell you stuff. More than half the tiles on what used to be your start menu are advertising.

The secondary function of Windows 10 is data collection. It is a keylogger. It records audio from your microphone even when you are not using a program which uses the microphone. They do the same thing with your webcam. Then twice a day all that collected information is compacted, encrypted and sent to Microsoft. Equating that with information provided to insurance companies is really ludicrous. We're talking about invasion of privacy way beyond anything reasonable. Then add in the p2p style update system where your bandwidth is used to upload updates to complete strangers at your expense, the automatic login of people on various friends lists to your personal wireless network--all this adds up to an OS which no longer serves its customers. It preys upon them.
You are telling this to a guy who puts his FastTraK in a mylar bag so sensors won't trace his movements on CA highways!:doh:

[Skybird]

I don't have a problem with Win 10 or the spying crap.
If you don't want anyone to know what your doing stay off the 'Net!
I type in all kinds of crap in a search just to set up an insanity defense myself.
:haha:

See. I know people are watching. I'm just not paranoid about it.
I got nothing to hide aside from the few hookers I choked to death.
They'll never find them as deep as I buried them in Pearland.
:03:
Once you find insurrances rejecting you as a customer, and this being due to you having talked about your life in a private talk, or you cannot find a job in a profession for similiar reasons - you will stop laughing. Like there is a policy of making people vulnerable and exposed tio state plundering by enforcing digital money and banning cash money, there is a comparable reason why so many companies and especially insurrances propagate the idea of a networking world where everybody is constantly being online and is overwatched and has no privacy anymore.

---

This is not 1984. It is far worse already, because it is subtle, omnipresent, and the evil comes with a smiling face. When you point finger at it, it will be you that people are wondering and laughing about, not the evil that you point at. Against wickedness that yells and threatens, you can protest, and it is easy to be recognised. But when it comes with charms, and flatters people, when it must not hide in shadows but is invited into the spotlights and gets applauded, then you can not defend yourself against it, cannot mobilise peopel against it, cannot organise resistence to it. And you slowly get strangled by it from behind while it friendly smiles in your face.

[AVGWarhawk]

It doesn't need to be. You can get your exposed information removed from 95% of all of your public listings if you don't mind doing a little cleaning, or hire an outfit like https://www.safeshepherd.com/ to remove your exposed personal information.
The Government records are difficult to scrub, but we're mostly talking about collection of personal data for targeted advertising and other non Gov't information uses.
I like my privacy. I like old Buick's too : )
Congratulations BTW, you deserve that award from exterior appearances in the above photo.


I don't mind the non-government collecting of my data for targeted advertising. I liken it to TV were certain programming leads to certain type of advertising. The collecting of this data has not disrupted my day to day. I don't feel my privacy has been invaded in this regard.

Thank you! If you like the exterior, the interior will make you happy as well. She is 100% restored to exactly as she left factory, as well as the dealer( I have the original sales receipt). The purchaser added WW tires, had the roof painted white, flexible steering wheel and undercoating. It was one great day to have taken a top 25 in a field of top notch cars.

[AVGWarhawk]

The problem is that the primary function of an operating system should be to quietly organize your options and help you run the software on your computer. As recently as Windows 7,Windows did that.

Now the primary function of Windows is to try to sell you stuff. More than half the tiles on what used to be your start menu are advertising.

The secondary function of Windows 10 is data collection. It is a keylogger. It records audio from your microphone even when you are not using a program which uses the microphone. They do the same thing with your webcam. Then twice a day all that collected information is compacted, encrypted and sent to Microsoft. Equating that with information provided to insurance companies is really ludicrous. We're talking about invasion of privacy way beyond anything reasonable. Then add in the p2p style update system where your bandwidth is used to upload updates to complete strangers at your expense, the automatic login of people on various friends lists to your personal wireless network--all this adds up to an OS which no longer serves its customers. It preys upon them.

The primary business of any business is to sell you stuff. MS is a business. If anyone believes MS was making OS out of the goodness of their own hearts is sorely mistaken. OS are a item MS sells or hands out for free to promote the business. As a user one accepts all that comes with the OS.

Webcam, do not use one. I do not use one or put a piece of tap over it if the user has one.

Further, collecting of data twice a day is a lot of data. Who is fine tooth combing this information? How are you equating this to information provided to insurance companies? And what insurance companies? Health, house or auto? If it's health insurance, no one can be turned away for any reason per Obamacare.

Friends list? Auto logging in? Preying on customers?

Even this was tapped years ago:

https://divorcediscourse.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/old-phone.jpeg

[AVGWarhawk]

Once you find insurrances rejecting you as a customer, and this being due to you having talked about your life in a private talk, or you cannot find a job in a profession for similiar reasons - you will stop laughing. Like there is a policy of making people vulnerable and exposed tio state plundering by enforcing digital money and banning cash money, there is a comparable reason why so many companies and especially insurrances propagate the idea of a networking world where everybody is constantly being online and is overwatched and has no privacy anymore.

---

This is not 1984. It is far worse already, because it is subtle, omnipresent, and the evil comes with a smiling face. When you point finger at it, it will be you that people are wondering and laughing about, not the evil that you point at. Against wickedness that yells and threatens, you can protest, and it is easy to be recognised. But when it comes with charms, and flatters people, when it must not hide in shadows but is invited into the spotlights and gets applauded, then you can not defend yourself against it, cannot mobilise peopel against it, cannot organise resistence to it. And you slowly get strangled by it from behind while it friendly smiles in your face.

Skybird,

Per the Healthcare Act no one can be turned away from insurance coverage for any reason. What happens in Germany concerning healthcare insurance I can not discuss as I do not have a clue how the system works in Germany. (Although Black Forest cuckoo clocks are wonderful and I purchased one for my daughter for Christmas. Thanks to the net I was able to buy one direct from Germany)

Background check are done for employment purposes already. Some employers use FB as a tool. So, don't post anything your mom should not see because your employer would not want to see it either. My job required an extensive background check.

I do not know of anyone forcing digital money over actual cash money. In Gog we Trust. All others pay cash.


Here's an idea....get off-line and go out to enjoy the fresh air. Can not get into to much trouble with this activity.

[Jimbuna]

I don't have a problem with Win 10 or the spying crap.
If you don't want anyone to know what your doing stay off the 'Net!
I type in all kinds of crap in a search just to set up an insanity defense myself.
:haha:

See. I know people are watching. I'm just not paranoid about it.
I got nothing to hide aside from the few hookers I choked to death.
They'll never find them as deep as I buried them in Pearland.
:03:

LOL :)

You as wel!! :o

[Rockin Robbins]

Skybird,

Per the Healthcare Act no one can be turned away from insurance coverage for any reason.

Unfortunately, that is simply not true. If your AGI is below $24,000 per year you are not eligible for Obamacare. In addition, with the introduction of Obamacare (and you can check this at your local hospital) the signs in emergency rooms that said "Health care cannot be denied for financial reasons" have come down. Hospitals can and do refuse to care for uninsured and uninsurable people. Where we had universal healthcare at a reasonable price before Obamacare, we now have people like me paying more for health insurance than I ever paid for any of my various cars or houses. We have others who simply do not qualify because of their low income and are now shut out. Plus we have millions who are just passing on a crippling cost and daring the government to fine them, figuring that the fine will cost them much less than the premiums. Cynically, they know that if the government dares to fine them there will be a political excrementstorm and the politicians will be out of office who dared to make such a ridiculous law. Forcing millions to buy a product they don't need and can't afford is comical. As Ronald Reagan was fond of saying, "In order for government to give something to you, it must first take it from somebody else."

United Health Care, which last year and the year before, lowballed their prices on the exchanges below their costs to administrate in order to build market share, then drastically increased them to profitable levels this year, have found that strategy just generated a lot of angry people who exit to other plans. They have announced that they will be withdrawing from Obamacare in 2017. If they do so look for other major insurers to jump ship and for Obamacare to be in big trouble.

Of course, Obama will be gone, and like a corporate fatcat with a golden parachute, it will no longer be his problem. It will be OUR problem, we who did not want the program to begin with, a program passed through fraud and administrative hocus-pocus because the votes were not there.

What will we do? If universal health care is what we think government (that's us) should provide, we surely don't have it now and the cost is way too high. The young people who were supposed to pony up the money to pay for us old coots haven't ponied up and they won't. Insurance companies are looking queasy and the #1 company is already announcing they're taking to the lifeboats.

Background check are done for employment purposes already. Some employers use FB as a tool. So, don't post anything your mom should not see because your employer would not want to see it either. My job required an extensive background check.

When you say your job required an extensive background check, that means a criminal background check and possibly a credit check. It did not require you to put a keylogger on your computer. It didn't involve their ability to listen to your microphone and watch your webcam any time they chose, while you are singing in the bathroom, what you say if you stub your toe on the end table, a family arguement. They aren't collecting every keystroke, including passwords, and sending the info dump to their company twice a day forever. There is no equivalency between background checks and other monitoring like your house's CLUE report, your credit report or arrest record. A year ago if someone would have told you you had a keylogger on your computer you would download software to eliminate it. Now you're saying it's no problem at all. What changed? I say right is still right. Wrong is still wrong. Reasonable is still reasonable and unreasonable is still unreasonable. What Microsoft does is wrong and unreasonable, conduct preying on the customers they are supposed to serve.

I do not know of anyone forcing digital money over actual cash money. In Gog we Trust. All others pay cash.
In fact most governmental transactions, like corporate fees and income tax refunds, are required to be paid for by digital money electronically transferred. Oftentimes the only payment method accepted is using their website to make payment with a credit or debit card. Some private companies, like car and truck rental companies, also do not permit cash to be used. "Legal for all debts, public and private" now means nothing at all in either public or private spheres.

Legally the practice is illegal but as usual with present and past administrations, they pick and choose which laws they wish to enforce, making arbitrarily chosen actions either quasi-illegal or quasi-legal. We are no longer a nation of laws. We are the nation of arbitrary rule by capricious and corruptable individuals. It was no error when President Obama, upon his election, began his goals with "Under my rein....." The imperial presidency under all recent presidents is just as much a danger to our culture as representation without taxation for more than 50% of citizens. We are running our country like it would be reasonable to allow Ford owners and managers to vote in GM corporate meetings. No stake in the system should mean no vote.


Here's an idea....get off-line and go out to enjoy the fresh air. Can not get into to much trouble with this activity.Yes, if we all just accept gross invasion of privacy with a smile and just go out and play, no harm will ever result. I'm sure all the articles I've posted were entirely the products of warped imaginations from people who don't go outside and breathe.

Microsoft's behavior is going to get even worse (http://www.computerworld.com/article/3009440/windows-pcs/windows-10s-usage-share-lead-over-windows-7-evaporates.html)before anything gets better. It will only get better after we, their customers, refuse to buy products whose purpose is marketing and invasion of privacy. When we refuse their EULAs, which tell us exactly how to bend over and when to smile in the graphic and unashamed language of a character from The Godfather.

[AVGWarhawk]

Unfortunately, that is simply not true. If your AGI is below $24,000 per year you are not eligible for Obamacare. Funny, my wife's cousin makes less than $24k a year and she has healthcare for free. So what your telling me is what exactly? In addition, with the introduction of Obamacare (and you can check this at your local hospital) the signs in emergency rooms that said "Health care cannot be denied for financial reasons" have come down. Hospitals can and do refuse to care for uninsured and uninsurable people. Where we had universal healthcare at a reasonable price before Obamacare, we now have people like me paying more for health insurance than I ever paid for any of my various cars or houses. We have others who simply do not qualify because of their low income and are now shut out. Plus we have millions who are just passing on a crippling cost and daring the government to fine them, figuring that the fine will cost them much less than the premiums. Cynically, they know that if the government dares to fine them there will be a political excrementstorm and the politicians will be out of office who dared to make such a ridiculous law. Forcing millions to buy a product they don't need and can't afford is comical. As Ronald Reagan was fond of saying, "In order for government to give something to you, it must first take it from somebody else." So what does this entire paragraph have to do with Windows 10?

United Health Care, which last year and the year before, lowballed their prices on the exchanges below their costs to administrate in order to build market share, then drastically increased them to profitable levels this year, have found that strategy just generated a lot of angry people who exit to other plans. They have announced that they will be withdrawing from Obamacare in 2017. If they do so look for other major insurers to jump ship and for Obamacare to be in big trouble. Again, what does this have to do with Windows 10?

Of course, Obama will be gone, and like a corporate fatcat with a golden parachute, it will no longer be his problem. It will be OUR problem, we who did not want the program to begin with, a program passed through fraud and administrative hocus-pocus because the votes were not there.

What will we do? If universal health care is what we think government (that's us) should provide, we surely don't have it now and the cost is way too high. The young people who were supposed to pony up the money to pay for us old coots haven't ponied up and they won't. Insurance companies are looking queasy and the #1 company is already announcing they're taking to the lifeboats.



When you say your job required an extensive background check, that means a criminal background check and possibly a credit check. It did not require you to put a keylogger on your computer. It didn't involve their ability to listen to your microphone(what microphone? I have none) and watch your webcam(I have no webcam) any time they chose, while you are singing in the bathroom(I do not sing in the bathroom), what you say if you stub your toe on the end table, a family arguement. They aren't collecting every keystroke, including passwords, and sending the info dump to their company twice a day forever. There is no equivalency between background checks and other monitoring like your house's CLUE report, your credit report or arrest record. A year ago if someone would have told you you had a keylogger on your computer you would download software to eliminate it. (you assume to much) Now you're saying it's no problem at all. What changed? I say right is still right. Wrong is still wrong. Reasonable is still reasonable and unreasonable is still unreasonable. What Microsoft does is wrong and unreasonable, conduct preying on the customers they are supposed to serve. (buy Apple)


In fact most governmental transactions, like corporate fees and income tax refunds, are required to be paid for by digital money electronically transferred. (now your are talking specifics. Last post it was all encompassing requiring electronic transactions) Oftentimes the only payment method accepted is using their website to make payment with a credit or debit card. (then go to the mall) Some private companies, like car and truck rental companies, also do not permit cash to be used. "Legal for all debts, public and private" now means nothing at all in either public or private spheres. (at the end of the day, when my card was compromised twice, the bank returned all monies taken, issued a new card number. Life went on. And truth be told, the card compromised was last used at a restaurant where the card leaves my sight to be charged. The server took the number. It had nothing to do with a web purchase.)

Legally the practice is illegal but as usual with present and past administrations, they pick and choose which laws they wish to enforce, making arbitrarily chosen actions either quasi-illegal or quasi-legal. (I can assure you the folks in DC are not getting keylogged by MS, watching webcams and pulling their wallet out of their pockets) We are no longer a nation of laws. We are the nation of arbitrary rule by capricious and corruptable individuals. It was no error when President Obama, upon his election, began his goals with "Under my rein....." The imperial presidency under all recent presidents is just as much a danger to our culture as representation without taxation for more than 50% of citizens. We are running our country like it would be reasonable to allow Ford owners and managers to vote in GM corporate meetings. No stake in the system should mean no vote. (this Windows 10 thread has turned into railing against government)

Yes, if we all just accept gross invasion of privacy with a smile and just go out and play, no harm will ever result. I'm sure all the articles I've posted were entirely the products of warped imaginations from people who don't go outside and breathe. (If you are sure why did you post them? Quite honestly, the cloak and dagger here is a bit out of control)

Microsoft's behavior is going to get even worse (http://www.computerworld.com/article/3009440/windows-pcs/windows-10s-usage-share-lead-over-windows-7-evaporates.html)before anything gets better. It will only get better after we, their customers, refuse to buy products whose purpose is marketing and invasion of privacy. When we refuse their EULAs, which tell us exactly how to bend over and when to smile in the graphic and unashamed language of a character from The Godfather.

Apple has a MAC for you. :up:

I understand where are coming from RR but no one is forcing anyone to use Windows. Chromebook, Apple and Amazon Kindle are other choices. However, these are just as nosy. I know many that survive just fine without the use of the internet and all it's ills.

[AVGWarhawk]

I have found this site that walks a Windows 10 user through getting rid of the open book privacy issue with Windows 10. When I get a chance I will go through each step on my home computer with 10 to see what is what.

https://www.hackread.com/windows-10-is-spying-on-you/

[AVGWarhawk]

Straight from MS:

1. Safety and Reliability Data
We collect a limited amount of information to help us provide a secure and reliable experience. This includes data like an anonymous device ID, device type, and application crash data which Microsoft and our developer partners use to continuously improve application reliability. This doesn’t include any of your content or files, and we take several steps to avoid collecting any information that directly identifies you, such as your name, email address or account ID.A great example of how this data was used effectively was just last month, when aggregate data showed us that a particular version of a graphics driver was crashing on some Windows 10 PCs, which then caused a reboot. This driver was not widely used, but still the issue was impacting customers. We immediately contacted the partner who builds the driver and worked with them to turn around a fix to Windows Insiders within 24 hours. We used the data on Insiders’ devices to confirm that the problem was resolved, and then rolled out the fix to the broad public via an update the next day – all-in-all, this data helped us find, fix and resolve a significant problem within 48 hours. 3. Advertising Data We Don’t Collect
Unlike some other platforms, no matter what privacy options you choose, neither Windows 10 nor any other Microsoft software scans the content of your email or other communications, or your files, in order to deliver targeted advertising to you.http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/windows-privacy-faq



With all the issues concerning Hillary and emails do we believe that MS has simply sent a new OS that allows them to check State Department emails and dump a list of contacts as well?

[AVGWarhawk]

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/windows-10-privacy/

Data or telemetry
One of the keys to understanding why the Microsoft privacy policies aren’t that scary is knowing the difference between data and telemetry. While data is the actual contents of the files on your system, telemetry is the usage data that every system keeps track of, and Microsoft treats them very differently.



Solutions to avoid
One of the most popular solutions the privacy changes in Windows 10 is to stick with Windows 7. That’s a far greater security risk than updating, even if you’re convinced Microsoft’s cronies are after you.


Microsoft couldn’t be clearer about the difference. In a plain English blog post discussing privacy concerns in Windows 10, it’s clearly stated that collected data includes “an anonymous device ID, device type, and application crash data” and “doesn’t include any of your content or files.” In addition, Microsoft takes “several steps to avoid collecting any information that directly identifies you, such as your name, email address or account ID.”

[AVGWarhawk]

As far as MS not listening, they are. RR, you stated a few post back about accepting gross privacy invasion and everyone going outside to play, there are many like you that blow the whistle and get corporations to take heed. We are after all in the information age. I doubt MS thought that invading privacy with such ferocity(real or imagined) would not go unnoticed.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/28/9409557/microsoft-windows-10-privacy-concerns-response


While Microsoft isn't addressing every concern today, the company is welcoming feedback if Windows 10 isn't "behaving the way it should with your privacy settings." Issues can be reported at Microsoft's website (http://support2.microsoft.com/gp/privacy-page?ln=EN-US) or though the Insiders program (https://insider.windows.com/).

[AVGWarhawk]

From ZDNet.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/does-windows-10-really-include-a-keylogger-spoiler-no/


If there were really anything resembling a keylogger in the Windows 10 Technical Preview, it would be very easy to discover and document exactly what information it's transmitting. I've done a cursory check and can't find anything that matches that description. And I'm certain that researchers in the security and privacy communities would immediately publish details of their findings if they found something through a more thorough search.
I'll update this post immediately if any such evidence turns up. So far, there's nothing.
What I'm finding from good sources appears to make the "Grand MS Conspiracy" anything but.

[fred8615]

What I'm finding from good sources appears to make the "Grand MS Conspiracy" anything but.
Yeah, but haters are gonna hate.

[Catfish]

Straight from MS:

“We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to.”

“To enable Cortana to provide personalized experiences and relevant suggestions, Microsoft collects and uses various types of data, such as your device location, data from your calendar, the apps you use, data from your emails and text messages, who you call, your contacts and how often you interact with them on your device.”

“Cortana also learns about you by collecting data about how you use your device and other Microsoft services, such as your music, alarm settings, whether the lock screen is on, what you view and purchase, your browsing and Bing search history, and more.”

Fixed this for you :D

[AVGWarhawk]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2363118#post2363118)
Straight from MS:

“We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to.”

“To enable Cortana to provide personalized experiences and relevant suggestions, Microsoft collects and uses various types of data, such as your device location, data from your calendar, the apps you use, data from your emails and text messages, who you call, your contacts and how often you interact with them on your device.”

“Cortana also learns about you by collecting data about how you use your device and other Microsoft services, such as your music, alarm settings, whether the lock screen is on, what you view and purchase, your browsing and Bing search history, and more.”

If Cortana likes what she is finding she quite possibly will date you. However, for full disclosure, Cortana is a known gold digger.



Fixed this for you :D

I made an addition. :O:

[AVGWarhawk]

I took a look at the settings on my new machine. The privacy on/off buttons is quite extensive. From ad tracking to shutting down the camera not allowing any app use it at all. The privacy statement is quite clear. I really can not find cause for alarm. Ok, so new updates are installed automatically. That can be addressed as well.

BTW, I clicked on the button to stop Cortana from following my arse. She is now in the Gulag.

[Jeff-Groves]

AVG,

You know you are now branded as a heretic and blasphemer right?
Anyone that posts ANYTHING the differs from the "SMASH MICROSOFT" BS is after all an idiot it seems.
:hmmm:

I'll give you all a clue. If your storing personal info on a system hooked to the 'Net?
Your an idiot and deserve your **** getting hacked.

[HW3]

I guess they haven't figured out that their ISP stores a whole lot more personally identifiable info on them, that their government can get anytime they want, without a warrant, by using NSL's. Info includes browsing history, searches, IP's, browsers used, ect. And all of it traceable by their name right to their web access point. And they are worried about MS collecting info.:nope:

[AVGWarhawk]

AVG,

You know you are now branded as a heretic and blasphemer right?
Anyone that posts ANYTHING the differs from the "SMASH MICROSOFT" BS is after all an idiot it seems.
:hmmm:

I'll give you all a clue. If your storing personal info on a system hooked to the 'Net?
Your an idiot and deserve your **** getting hacked.

I'm willing to accept that.

[AVGWarhawk]

I guess they haven't figured out that their ISP stores a whole lot more personally identifiable info on them, that their government can get anytime they want, without a warrant, by using NSL's. Info includes browsing history, searches, IP's, browsers used, ect. And all of it traceable by their name right to their web access point. And they are worried about MS collecting info.:nope:


From what I have read, MS attempts to collect two pieces of information, what sites users visit so to target sales advertising for things said user enjoys. Second, how the user navigates the OS so MS can enhance/improve the OS product. I have found the user can opt out of both. Generally the question asked by MS is, "Would you like to participate..."

Tracing IP's and such appears to be a necessary evil. Years ago phone lines were traceable. Often tapped without warrant.

[Rockin Robbins]

I took a look at the settings on my new machine. The privacy on/off buttons is quite extensive. From ad tracking to shutting down the camera not allowing any app use it at all. The privacy statement is quite clear. I really can not find cause for alarm. Ok, so new updates are installed automatically. That can be addressed as well.

BTW, I clicked on the button to stop Cortana from following my arse. She is now in the Gulag.
The articles I have posted fully rebutted each and every point you have made. They are from the most respected computer related watchdogs on the planet. Especially 35 minutes with Mr Barnacles Nerdgasm would be the only antidote you need to conquer blindness.

Now since Microsoft claims the right to access every character you type, every file you save, in fact, every file on your computer, claims the right to use any attached peripherals like webcams and microphones (almost all laptops have those), let's convince ourselves that Microsoft is the white knight in shining armor, never going to disrespect our soverignty over our personal lives.

Just like Norway, fine and meticulous record keepers that they are, carefully compiled records on the religious orientation of all its citizens as a metter of course, and of course, faithfully guarded that information against malicious use, when Germany invaded, there were complete records of virtually all the Jews in the country. It was child's play to round them all up to kill them. Italy, which had no such tradition of innocuous and harmless record collection, successfully resisted participating in the Final Solution, even though they were an ally of Germany not conquered by force as Norway was.

Moral of story, children friends: goodness does not justify invasion of privacy. Somebody bad can come into possession of the information and do evil things. Therefore it is not acceptable for Microsoft to collect this information even if they are our friends.

Reading the articles I have posted from a wide variety of experts, shows clearly that Microsoft is NOT our friend. We should be on our guard and defending ourselves.

As for the post that you slathered with "WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH WINDOWS 10" you opened the door to that discussion with a direct question, to which that post was the answer. Analogy is often the stronges argument, analyzing difficult to understand situations with universally understood situations.

But because they invade our privacy rights with a smile and a pat on the back it makes them MORE eggregious, not less harmful. The first step in a mugging is to disarm your victim. If it only takes a smile or a smarmy comment about "good faith" then all the better. What follows is still a mugging.

It's amazing to me that governments all over the world, including that of Republican George Bush were suing and prosecuting Microsoft in the early 2000's for restraint of trade and monopolistic practices merely for including Internet Exploder in Windows. Now with truly gangster tactics being used, those same people are winking, giving Microsoft the old thumbs up and giving excuses for their bullying. I'm not willing to give them a free pass. And I will continue to provide information for the benefit of those who are similarly concerned.

That information is not directed to those who don't want to listen. It is directed for those who can see the truth. Sometimes I include information in a reply, not for the benefit of the specific person I'm replying to, but the benefit of others reading the thread. Sometimes I talk about historical situations where similar behavior came to a bad end. In doing so I knowingly leave myself open to the attack that I am not responding to the subject at hand. I believe, however, that history has lessons to tell and by paying attention to it we might not have to make the same mistakes others have already paid the price for.

Microsoft is not acting in good faith, for the benefit of its customers or in accordance with long accepted standards of business behavior. They are acting as a predator and we are its prey.

Fun assignment for the week: Visit a bank and get the branch manager to utter and define the words "fiduciary responsibility." Then then have them explain how a computer program that bounces the maximum number of checks (example: you are $50 overdrawn because of a $50 check. Instead of bouncing the one check, the computer program will bounce as many smaller checks as it can to increase bank income from fees.) is an exercise of the bank's fiduciary responsibilities to its customers. Ask them if their bank uses such a program. Be prepared to be disgusted or thankful that your bank knows right from wrong.

[AVGWarhawk]

Rocking Robbin:

Moral of story, children friends:Belittlement is not necessary.

The articles I have posted fully rebutted each and every point you have made. The articles I have posted rebutted your articles. None are points that I have made. These articles are from MS and valid sources.

As for the post that you slathered with "WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH WINDOWS 10" you opened the door to that discussion with a direct question, to which that post was the answer.

No sir. It was stated by you and Skybird that one could get denied insurance. I countered with what insurances do you two speak off. There are after all more then one kind of insurance.


Although I do not appreciate the belittling, I do appreciate your taking time to point out MS dealings concerning their OS. However, as a consumer of products and services we here in the US have a choice not to use products and services that are flawed. Further, I understand MS is not my friend. Most if not all "friends" in any industry disappear after the contract is signed. I'm truly wondering when you will understand MS is a business that wants to make money. If you would like to us their product they will ask to do certain things during the use of said product. You have the right to decline and find another avenue to enjoy the internet. I do not understand the vendetta with MS.

[aanker]

The articles I have posted fully rebutted each and every point you have made. They are from the most respected computer related watchdogs on the planet. Especially 35 minutes with Mr Barnacles Nerdgasm would be the only antidote you need to conquer blindness.
You are a prolific writer RR, informative reads, all.

I'm curious, if you have Win7 64 as I do, did you do the dot Net & Office updates last month? I haven't - yet - I can't seem to find a definitive answer on those two.

Don't laugh (or cry), I'm still running Office Outlook 2003 because I like it. I let web-mail sort out the spam online, and only download from those on my 'white-list'.

When installing updates that I 'need', do I re-configure (disable entirely) the GWX_control_panel?

For years I have researched and hand selected any updates that MS has offered and hid the unnecessary ones - especially thankful for that practice since I uninstalled the first instance of the nag screen and related Win 10 files approx 5 months ago.

I ask because we have 'Update Tuesday' fast approaching again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks RR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Dec 2014 Update Edit:
I updated the dot Net and MS Office 2003, however today there was more KB # info on the sites & forums I look at; Ask Woody et al, and found the two new additional updates listed were suggested by most to keep hidden until more info was available. One had to do with a USB I don't even have.
The three new Optional updates listed I hid as usual - and as suggested.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[AVGWarhawk]

Rocking Robin:

Especially 35 minutes with Mr Barnacles Nerdgasm would be the only antidote you need to conquer blindness.

The Barnacles Nerdgasm that was laid off by MS? Now I see the vendetta.

[Rockin Robbins]

You are a prolific writer RR, informative reads, all.

Translation: I have a BIG MOUTH. I am not shy about sharing a room with a strong opinion.

I'm curious, if you have Win7 64 as I do, did you do the dot Net & Office updates last month? I haven't - yet - I can't seem to find a definitive answer on those two.

Don't laugh (or cry), I'm still running Office Outlook 2003 because I like it. I let web-mail sort out the spam online, and only download from those on my 'white-list'.

When installing updates that I 'need', do I re-configure (disable entirely) the GWX_control_panel?

For years I have researched and hand selected any updates that MS has offered and hid the unnecessary ones - especially thankful for that practice since I uninstalled the first instance of the nag screen and related Win 10 files approx 5 months ago.

I ask because we have 'Update Tuesday' fast approaching again.

I always apply the .NET and Office updates. I also use Office 2003 (wonder how long that will last) because I like it better. I'm also going to do a survey to see what the experts have found out about the lethality of last month's updates and will post what I find. I expect to be applying some of those, hiding the rest and having a clear deck for update Tuesday this month.

GWX Control Panel only changes settings pertaining to updating to Windows 10. It doesn't change your update settings for other updates. Folks, watch out as Microsoft has already announced that Windows 10 will download itself and at least partially install on Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 machines during the first quarter of 2016. This will apply even if you have no interest in Windows 10. Shields up!:up:

[fred8615]

Here's another article calling out the Win 10 bashers:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/dont-let-the-grinches-put-you-off-windows-10/

And from a guy who primarily uses OS X.

[AVGWarhawk]

People willing dump their information on Facebook and Google yet Windows 10 is a gather of information looking to take over the world.

This gentleman analyzes it nicely:


Dave Blair (https://www.quora.com/profile/Dave-Blair), Nerd.

Full disclosure: I'm a Linux nut, so I can't deny feeling a little bit of satisfaction and Schadenfreude that Microsoft are getting a bad rep, again.

Having said that:

This addresses a wider issue – data privacy and why people get excited about it like nothing else. I think it's borderline hysterical. My explanations are as follows:


I'm special! My data is valuable! Of course. The billions of other users are also special, every bit of data counts. Not really. The data is mainly used for market research, and only once statistically analysed – by other computers. Even if the data isn't anonymized, an individual user's data is only interesting to that one person.
Computers are running the world! They have spectacular algorithms that can tell your shoe size and embarrassing medical problem from your age, date of birth and favourite colour. Nope, computer algorithms aren't intelligent, they can't pick up nuances and mannerisms. Humans are far more capable of that. For the challenge and to dispel the boredom, I tracked one paranoid "google knows everything" merchant that claimed that they never posted anything private, right down to their address and phone number by following specific topics the person wrote about, writing style and e-mail addresses left on public boards, through to a small ad they'd left on some obscure trading website. Took me half an hour. No supersleuthing needed. No profiling software, however sophisticated, can do that. I simply assume that if anyone wants to find out anything about me, they can do the same.
The statistical use of the Web would suggest that most of us have been on certain websites we really wouldn't want our boss, family members or whoever knowing about.
Lots and lots of false information: This or that website can find your IP address! They use Google Analytics, OMG! Sorry, anyone that hosts a website knows your IP address and most web space service providers come with a record of which IP address accessed your website and which website they were referred from. That's what Google Analytics does, only it's a little more refined. Besides, you can't find out who someone is from their IP address unless you give them your name. But then... you've given them your name.
Conspiracy theories, they're in cahoots with the government, CIA, Mossad, ZOG, Bilderberg Group, NWO and the like... sorry that really only interests conspiracy nuts, I'm not even going to go into that. They don't want to run the world, they want to sell you tampons... but it would be good to know whether you're in the market.
Helplessness: It's all too complicated and I'm not in control, someone has to help me and ban stuff and look out for me me me. Usually involves the children and old people argument. Ties in closely with Conspiracy and I'm special.
Specifically Facebook: I'll never understand this. You disclose information on yourself and then get worried it might get used for something. It's in the public domain, anyone can do what they want with your information.

The problem is: It's an elephant shoot. Big companies like Google and Microsoft are easy targets, but they're the last people anyone should be worried about – they have masses of information, and that alone means that finding that special information about you is like finding the needle in the really big haystack. They also have clear and plausible business models that don't involve selling your info to the spam mafia, or worse. Itty-bitty little dotcom companies with unknown provenance – not so much. They might be tempted to boost their tight start-up budget with a little data dealing on the side.

[AVGWarhawk]

Here's another article calling out the Win 10 bashers:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/dont-let-the-grinches-put-you-off-windows-10/

And from a guy who primarily uses OS X.


There is no denying 10 collects data. So did any previous OS, as well as, Google and Facebook.

There is no denying the computer under your dashboard is also collecting data about your driving habits. Progressive has a device that plugs into your under dash ALDL that sends the driving data to Progressive. How fast your have driven. Hard braking. How much you drive. Where is the outrage that your cars computer is collecting that data and anyone can access it? VW computer will keep track of redlining the engine.

Image if getting insurance requires a reading from your current cars computer about your driving habits? You could be denied insurance!

Another way to keep all your data safe is never connecting to the internet. Nice talking to you.....

[Rockin Robbins]

There is no denying 10 collects data. So did any previous OS, as well as, Google and Facebook.

There is no denying the computer under your dashboard is also collecting data about your driving habits. Progressive has a device that plugs into your under dash ALDL that sends the driving data to Progressive. How fast your have driven. Hard braking. How much you drive. Where is the outrage that your cars computer is collecting that data and anyone can access it? VW computer will keep track of redlining the engine.

Image if getting insurance requires a reading from your current cars computer about your driving habits? You could be denied insurance!

Another way to keep all your data safe is never connecting to the internet. Nice talking to you.....
So your argument is that consensual data gathering by Progressive equals nonconsentual gathering if info through subterfuge. Pretty weak. Consensual sex does not equal to and does not justify rape. There I go again illustrating the unknown with the universally agreed upon equivalent.

[Jimbuna]

I think all I'll say up to this point is....

This thread has a lot of interesting detail that I should imagine many of our community find most interesting (myself included).

My two penneth of advice is....if you don't want to be spied on or have information about yourself gathered....don't use the internet.

Finally...mutual civility and respect for one another would make this thread even more enjoyable/readable.

[Rockin Robbins]

Let's marshall the evidence for my contention that Microsoft is not acting in good faith, that they have changed their business plan from serving their customers to preying upon their customers. And, of course, my conclusion that the reasonable course of action is to be on guard and defend yourself against conversion of your property to their use without permission or consent, invasion of privacy in an environment where privacy is expected, using your hardware to transfer cost from Microsoft to you.

Disable Windows 10 Spying - Privacy & Security (https://youtu.be/u1kGMCfb2xw)

Early next year, Microsoft will tap the Windows 10 upgrade so it automatically downloads to consumer PCs and even begin the installation process. (http://www.computerworld.com/article/3009440/windows-pcs/windows-10s-usage-share-lead-over-windows-7-evaporates.html)

Improved GWX Control Panel does an even better job at keeping Windows 10 off your PC (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/17/improved-gwx-control-panel-does-an-even-better-job-at-keeping-windows-10-off-your-pc/)

Review: New Windows 10 version still can't beat Windows 7 (http://www.infoworld.com/article/3004038/microsoft-windows/review-new-windows-10-version-1511-still-cant-beat-windows-7.html)

Woody's MSDEFCOM system and advice (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/askwoody.com)

Good Microsoft, Bad Microsoft (http://www.zdnet.com/article/ed-botts-weekly-wrap-good-microsoft-bad-microsoft-edition/)

Windows 10 growth sluggish as Windows 7/8.x users stick with their OS (http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-growth-sluggish-as-windows-7-windows-8-users-stick-with-their-os/)

Ghacks.net (http://www.ghacks.net/category/microsoft-companies/)

Susan Bradley, (http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/attempting-to-answer-whether-ms-is-snooping/) Attempting to answer whether MS is snooping (http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/attempting-to-answer-whether-ms-is-snooping/)

Microsoft stays tightlipped as the world rages (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/analysis/2425886/windows-10-updategate-microsoft-stays-tightlipped-as-the-world-rages#)

Updates relating to nag or install Windows 10 or spy on you as Windows 10 would. Remember, this is only pertaining to Windows 7. If you are unfortunate enough to have the cell phone operating systems 8 or 8.1 you'll have to consult the article above:

KB3055583
KB2976978
KB3050267
KB3068708
KB3022345
KB2952664
KB2977759
KB3075249
KB3080149
KB3090045
MS-DEFCON 3: Patch Windows, but beware the snoops (http://www.askwoody.com/tag/kb-2952664/)



http://betanews.com/2015/09/11/remov...nd-windows-8-x (http://betanews.com/2015/09/11/remove-unwanted-windows-10-upgrade-files-from-windows-7-and-windows-8-x)
http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/28/mic...and-8-systems/ (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/28/microsoft-intensifies-data-collection-on-windows-7-and-8-systems/)
http://www.extremetech.com/computing...to-windows-7-8 (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/213183-once-more-with-tracking-microsoft-backports-privacy-invading-windows-10-features-to-windows-7-8)
http://betanews.com/2015/08/13/windo...ivacy-settings (http://betanews.com/2015/08/13/windows-10-phones-home-to-microsoft-even-if-you-change-privacy-settings)
http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/31/tech...ter/index.html (http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/31/technology/windows10-mozilla-letter/index.html)

From the EULA: "We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your e-mails, other private communications, or files in private folders) when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary"

Windows 10 Privacy and Freedom Concerns Surrounding the EULA | Vlog (https://youtu.be/ULq1ajA1Jek)

How to use Firefox as your default browser (http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/31/technology/windows10-mozilla-letter/index.html)


What's left after you disable (http://betanews.com/2015/08/13/windows-10-phones-home-to-microsoft-even-if-you-change-privacy-settings) Microsoft data collection


http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=N3Q...BDqAy67krLYggQ (http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=N3Q_o&m=3mVC1cMzE2xsuk2&b=qCVCJdL.BDqAy67krLYggQ)


http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=N3Q...YyqYc.B8prNRMw (http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=N3Q_o&m=3mVC1cMzE2xsuk2&b=cbo.P9QqYyqYc.B8prNRMw)


The good thing about Microsoft is that knowing that people no longer believe privacy is one of their inalienable rights and so don't care if they are data-mined any more, is not bashful about telling you exactly how eggregious their invasion of privacy is. They TELL you that people on various friends lists around the Internet have default access to your home network. They TELL you that they will access every part of your computer and its software, taking data from all files that they can hack their way to. They tell you that your microphone and other peripherals will be recorded and sent to Microsoft.


Menus no longer serve the purpose of helping you do what you want, but are for the purpose of hiding what you want and making that increasingly difficult to do. As part of the process for picking Firefox as your default browser you must actually select Edge, for instance. Privacy related issues are menued by a bright shiny button saying "slay me" and a tiny greyed out option out of your attention that allows you to protect yourself.

And after all that the reply comes back "No problem." What would have alarmed us to no end a year ago is now accepted as unavoidable and when people who retain their values from a year ago raise the alarm, they are derided as crazies.

[HW3]

My two penneth of advice is....if you don't want to be spied on or have information about yourself gathered....don't use the internet.

Exactly!!!!:agree:

[STEED]

My two penneth of advice is....if you don't want to be spied on or have information about yourself gathered....don't use the internet..

Not good enough, get off the grid and live in a cave....Oh hang on there are satellites that can gather info on you like what day you hunt for food and what veg you are growing! :damn:

Seems to me there is only one answer, you never come into being.

[Skybird]

You are right, Robbins, MS is waging a war of attrition against resistance by "customers". They do not adapt to people'S wishes - they train them to have other wishes, wishes that are in congruence with what MS wants them to wish. Serve the crap often enough, and every connoisseur will turn into a pig sooner or later. And he will even claim to like it. Its just that people like you and me, being critical of this, are getting pulled over sooner or later, too. The others I have no real compassion for, they only get what they deserve and not one bit more, but us few - we will need to pay the price for their indifference sooner or later, too. And that is what is unfair. The large majority just gets what it deserves. The few get plowed under. To hell with it.

[Rockin Robbins]

For Windows 7 users, here's the skinny on the November batch of updates. To make our screening job harder Microsoft has changed their documentation procedures for updates. Where documentation for updates was very comprehensive and complete, documentation is now.....well, basically nothing at all! All those arguing that Microsoft is operating in good faith for the benefit of its users, I'd love to hear a plausible theory about how nixing documentation of updates constitutes "good faith."

In spite of that, Woody has backed off to MS_DEFCON 4. but first:

(http://www.infoworld.com/article/3011040/microsoft-windows/windows-update-patches-kb-3112336-and-kb-3112343-are-all-about-windows-10.html?nsdr=true)Windows Update patches KB 3112336 and KB 3112343 are all about Windows 10 (http://www.infoworld.com/article/3011040/microsoft-windows/windows-update-patches-kb-3112336-and-kb-3112343-are-all-about-windows-10.html?nsdr=true)

MS-DEFCON 4: Patch, but watch out for KB 3101488, and clean up afterwards (http://www.askwoody.com/2015/msdefcon-4-patch-watch-kb-3101488-clean/)

Read carefully. What he says is After installing the patches, Windows 7 and 8.1 users should immediately run GWX Control Panel (http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html). (The latest version has a feature called Monitor Mode that’ll run the program automatically after your update.) If privacy is important to you – and it should be – Win 7 and 8.1 users should then follow the advice at the end of Susan Bradley’s article (http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/attempting-to-answer-whether-ms-is-snooping/) last month in Windows Secrets Newsletter, and turn off the Diagnostic Tracking Service.If you want to keep up on what each patch does, your one-stop shopping is Susan Bradley's Patch Release Grid (https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?cid=C756C44362CD94AD&resid=c756c44362cd94ad!2257&qt=sharedby&app=Excel). Oops, that's for Windows 10 only--still useful.

I hid the updates above, KB3112336 and KB3112343 because they are only about "easy" updating to Windows 10.

[HW3]

For those who have questions. Those who have already made up their minds, don't bother wasting your time.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/dont-let-the-grinches-put-you-off-windows-10/

[Skybird]

http://www.zdnet.com/article/dont-let-the-grinches-put-you-off-windows-10/
That piece is wantonly negligent. :nope: Claims not founded but just claimed, and reported negative facts as witnessed by many, many users, completely ignored. Lousy.

[Rockin Robbins]

Yes, as with Windows 8 and 8.1 the majority of the computer press is acting as Microsoft cheerleaders. You must analyze their writing critically to expose their bias and it's fun to speculate on their motives. I think lots of US Government portraits of dead presidents on special cotton-based paper are involved.

Anyway, just spend a little time with Barnacles Nerdgasm's video (https://youtu.be/u1kGMCfb2xw). He LIKES Microsoft--used to work for them. He's not angry, he's heartbroken that a company which served mankind for so long has changed gears to preying on mankind. He lays out the case very clearly, without rancor and tells you what you can do about it. I'd only add one thing to his technique. I'd use my router's blacklist to shut off those Microsoft servers from your network. No Windows hack (and that's what updates have become) can defeat that.

Anyway, the purpose of this post: I installed all the updates from last month's Black Tuesday updates, except for KB3112343, which joins the dirty 11 to make the dirty dozen, because it is only about updating to Windows 10 and I'm not doing that.

So what's the score? Remember, this is the before snapshot by GWX Control Panel:
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/GWX%20Control%20Panel_zpsp2pnesx1.jpg

At that point I had defanged all Windows 10 upgrades and the GWX Control panel found that Windows had already polluted 5.4 GB of my hard drive with a complete installation copy of Windows 10, at my expense, without my knowledge or consent. Imagine if I was a Comcast customer with a 1 GB quota and they caused me to exceed my quota by over 5 TIMES! Well that happened to many thousands, who had to pay dearly for Microsoft's invasion of personal property and theft of personal freedom to decide. Of course that is all reasonable and above board. Atta boy Microsoft!

I deleted the 5.4 GB payload. Then yesterday I installed all of the November updates except the one mentioned above. And just now I ran GWX Control Panel. Let's see what changed without notice, against my will and without my consent.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/screenshot.423_zpsr9y17lr2.jpg

Look! After I turned Windows operating system upgrades off, Microsoft turned them BACK ON! After I eliminated GWX and removed its (hidden--doesn't that show how honorable Microsoft is?) directory, it's been reinstalled. It's a terrorist sleeper cell on my computer! Not for long.

So Microsoft disregards the choices of its customers and installs hidden sleeper programs to take part in the planned (and announced--see my post above) re-download and automatic at least partial installation of Windows 10 some time in the first quarter of 2015.

Folks, when you know your product is not in the best interest of your customers, when you know that very few will willingly use your product, when you know that no knowing, thinking person with self-respect, who believes in the innate right of privacy would purchase or even take your product for free, the only option left is to force its use. That is Microsoft's course, to steamroller the wishes, preferences, rights and privileges of its victims and force them to do something which will hurt them. Anybody have any plausible explanation that paints Microsoft as the great white horsed knight full of virtue and honor? Please be careful, because there is a fine line between apologetics and comedy.

So: go ahead and install all the updates except for KB3112336 and KB3112343. One of them appears for Win 7 and the other for 8 and 8.1. After the updates, run GWX control panel to turn off Windows operating system updates (again). Then you can look in your Windows directory, possibly Windows\system 32 for the hidden GWX directory. Delete it and all contents.

Finally, if you believe, as I do, that Microsoft is actively probing your machine to see if you have made changes to retain ownership and to block Microsoft (that's why they change 'em back), then you'll like that Spybot Anti-Beacon has been updated to provide similar protection that it already provided to Windows 10, to immunize Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 also against data snooping added by "updates" which violate Microsoft's past definition of what an update is. I just did that. Anti-Beacon lets you choose exactly what to block: it isn't just an on-off button for everything. It is the nuanced customer approval tool that Microsoft should have included in Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 after its snooping policy began. At all times the customer should be in charge of data mining of his life.

Question for Microsoft apologists: Did Spybot change their program because Microsoft has nothing to block and is acting to protect its customers from harm? Or did Spybot update Anti-Beacon because Microsoft introduced unacceptable changes through the back door into Windows 7, 8 and 8.1?

Remember the days when after a system crash, Windows XP (and 7) used to say "Do you want to send data to Microsoft that will be analyzed to help prevent similar crashes in the future? No personally identifiable information will be sent." And do you remember the button on such quaint dialog boxes that said "Show me what information will be sent to Microsoft?" Well, those days of respect for customers is gone. Its a party now and you are the cake and ice cream. Enjoy!

I consider my desktop computer a fundamentally different environment from my cell phone. I operate it from a different set of tolerances, a different set of rules. But with Google on the cell phone I can shut off the data mining with clearly provided controls. There is no subterfuge or obfuscation as there is with Microsoft. But I have no expectation of privacy on my cell phone while I demand it on my desktop. I will have it too, with or without Microsoft's help.

[AVGWarhawk]

So your argument is that consensual data gathering by Progressive equals nonconsentual gathering if info through subterfuge. Pretty weak. Consensual sex does not equal to and does not justify rape. There I go again illustrating the unknown with the universally agreed upon equivalent.


Progressive?
Subterfuge? (there is a disclaimer for all to read and accept/reject after W10 is installed. Where is the subterfuge? Read the fine print as always stated when fine print is presented to one.)


I have no argument. What I take issue with is the "sky is falling" approach to Windows 10 as if there is something new going on here. Google, FB and a plethora of other OS/apps/programs collect data and have done so for quite sometime.

If someone would like 100% privacy then live on an island. Other than that, all are subject to some form of privacy intrusion.

[AVGWarhawk]

The good thing about Microsoft is that knowing that people no longer believe privacy is one of their inalienable rights and so don't care if they are data-mined any more,


RR,

MS specifically written a disclaimer that is either accepted or rejected by the user. The OS was created by MS and if you would like to use the product this is what will happen....collecting data to make the experience better for the user. If you have an issue with that USE ANOTHER OS. You have the right not to use the OS. No one is forcing any user to run the OS. No one needs the OS to function in life.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes, as with Windows 8 and 8.1 the majority of the computer press is acting as Microsoft cheerleaders. You must analyze their writing critically to expose their bias and it's fun to speculate on their motives. I think lots of US Government portraits of dead presidents on special cotton-based paper are involved.

Anyway, just spend a little time with Barnacles Nerdgasm's video (https://youtu.be/u1kGMCfb2xw). He LIKES Microsoft--used to work for them. He's not angry, he's heartbroken that a company which served mankind for so long has changed gears to preying on mankind. He lays out the case very clearly, without rancor and tells you what you can do about it.

How can one "Exposing their bias" when you having fun speculating? Either you have information on the media bias(not sure what the media will gain to be a cheerleader to MS) or it is nothing but speculation.

I'm sure Barnacles absolutely loves MS after he was sent packing. He is only heartbroken over the missing auto-deposit into his checking account that MS completed weekly for Mr. Barnacles. But I'm only speculating on his bias. However, I can assure you that the two companies that downsized me out the front door are anything but on my likable list.

As far as this, that a company which served mankind for so long has changed gears to preying on mankind. , I think this is a bit melodramatic. And definitely Twilight Zone as you(or someone) mentioned in a earlier post. If one does not want to be the raptors claws use another OS.

[Rockin Robbins]

Progressive? WTF!!! It's Swiftkey Neural Keyboard gone stark raving mad, and as a result, the only reliable letter is the first one. And my demented mind can't recall what the word was. Swiftkey Neural Keyboard is a marvelous cell phone app that I would not permit on my PC for privacy reasons. After providing the first word it sometimes completes whole sentences by just selecting the words.

Watch Barnacles Nerdgasm's video (https://youtu.be/u1kGMCfb2xw). Decide for yourself if subterfuge is a proper word when:


Your privacy selections are routinely changed from "protect me" to "rape me" on "updates."
Update 1511, without notice or consent removes (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/24/beware-latest-windows-10-update-may-remove-programs-automatically/) Speccy, Spybot Search and Destroy, Windows 7 Games for Windows 10, Printer drivers, Acer Desktop, Ccleaner, sets your default PDF viewer to Edge, Edge default home page is reset to Bing
Whole services are deleted. "Yay! Diagnostics Tracking Systems service is gone!"....."O Crap! It's just been renamed 'Connected User Experiences and Telemetry.' If you disabled tracking Microsoft just turned it back on (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/19/microsoft-rena-and-telemetry/) and reinstalled under a new name. <sarcasm>Sure, THAT's honorable and "not subterfuge." </sarcasm> This is the equivalent of the renaming of "torture" to "enhanced interrogation techniques."

And note that while I provide links so that my word doesn't have to be depended on with specific examples of subterfuge, the only reply to the contrary is a bland and unsupported general statements of acceptance of our Brave New World. This is 1984 on steroids.


Again, I have no expectation of privacy on my cell phone. On my PC I demand and enforce it. My PC is not and never will be a cell phone. Shields up!

And yes, AVG, the reference to the Twilight Zone episode "To Serve Man" was mine. What an amazingly appropriate episode to illustrate Microsoft's new business plan. Like all good science fiction, it was an analogy of our willingness to adopt free benefits that are accompanied with horrible penalties. Of course, why those aliens would make their cookbook available on Earth so it could be translated was never really explained.....:D:D:D

[AVGWarhawk]

Again, I have no expectation of privacy on my cell phone. On my PC I demand and enforce it. My PC is not and never will be a cell phone. Shields up!

Then one can create their own OS as any and all current OS/browsers/programs/apps, in one form or the another, collect data from said user.

I use Bing exclusively on my computer at home. I tire of Google, Firefox, etc. Needing to know all gets tiresome.

I'm sorry, I do not see a crisis at hand here. The reason being we are not forced to use MS.

But again, I see your upset and understand completely.

[Rockin Robbins]

Then one can create their own OS as any and all current OS/browsers/programs/apps, in one form or the another, collect data from said user.

I use Bing exclusively on my computer at home. I tire of Google, Firefox, etc. Needing to know all gets tiresome.

I'm sorry, I do not see a crisis at hand here. The reason being we are not forced to use MS.

But again, I see your upset and understand completely.
Yes, to some degree, Java, Flash, HTML itself, HTML-5, all browsers are included in a family of programs which essentially are operating systems running inside your operating system.

That's why even if you run Linux, some degree of shielding is necessary. Apple is now supporting ad blockers, Google lets you shut off telemetry entirely while allowing you to retain cloud-based backup of photos, system settings and the like. Firefox encrypts your backup and, as an open source provider has not exploitive commercial interest.

Basically we have a collision of two systems. They happen to be commercial and non-commercial but that is not what makes them different--the shoes could be on opposite feet and would still fit fine. One side says that your computer is their property to use as they see fit and your expenses to purchase and maintain your system, including Internet access fees are just admission charges to use their system. The other side says that your hardware is your property, that you enjoy sovereign rights to determine how it is used or not used.

I don't see the vast superiority to users that the Microsoft scheme brings. Other commercial operations: Apple, Google, don't need the subterfuge, give you full control over your system and are more profitable than Microsoft. Why? Profit follows service to customers.

A second group of commercial operators and government operators, like NASA, European governments, Steam are flagships, have adopted Linux as a system that works for the user, is fully customizable, has full open source, and which works for the sole benefit of the user. When top games are playable on Linux the switch will begin. I played Borderlands 2 on Ubuntu the other day and it was magnificent.

[AVGWarhawk]

Rockin Robin:
Apple, Google, don't need the subterfuge, give you full control over your system and are more profitable than Microsoft. Why? Profit follows service to customers.

Apple and Google are profitable companies that have a leg up on MS. MS has fallen behind in a couple regards. First being the mobile phone. Apple hands down has a good grip on this market segment. Android has a good grip on it as well. Windows Phone not so much. Although I use a Windows Phone and love it. Many do not give it a try. Personally I can't stand Android. To many fingers in the pot. Second, MS latest OS 8 and 8.1 that followed a bad Vista but successful 7 culminating in Windows 10...users get a bit tired of being the lab rat with new OS issued by MS. So what does MS do to win back some market share? Give out free goodies and let the users know that collected data is only to help "better" their experience. And most, as you pointed out, simply click accept to the terms and enjoy exploring the new OS. At best a poor marketing scheme not well thought out for launch. The alarms started fast and furious. Hopefully MS will not be a Trojan Horse in the future as a result.

[Rockin Robbins]

The alarms started fast and furious. Hopefully MS will not be a Trojan Horse in the future as a result.
If they practiced full disclosure, gave users control over the telemetry process and....heck that's about all they need to do to regain customer trust. But every time they get the chance to reform their ways they step in even deeper excrement.

It's like a horror movie where the monster is upstairs and the cute woman needs to go up there to get a nail file. She hears the scary noises, might even see a little blood, she can walk away with no problems but she blithely steps upstairs and into the jaws of the monster. Microsoft just keeps getting deeper into trust deficit and either doesn't realize it (impossible) or thinks that it can just impose its will without consequence.

The public is very fickle. Remember MySpace? Remember Oldsmobile or Plymouth or the USSR? Huge "irreplaceable" behemoths, gone in a second. Pretty much nobody misses them and Microsoft can go the same way very quickly. All they have to do is totally lose customer trust. It's happening.

[Fubar2Niner]

@RR & Skybird

New bunch of updates for Win 7, after clearing out the danger list and running GWXCP I am clean. First peek at Update I look at I found these:

"Security"

(KB2961072)
(KB3069114)
(KB3088195)

"Update Win 7"

(KB2882822)
(KB3014406)

All are labelled Important,also one Optional;

(KB3095649)

I have seen no mention of them on ghacks. I'm holding on them for a week. What you guys think?

Thanks for your continued heads up.

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[Rockin Robbins]

I'm holding steady for now. I held the last batch for 3 weeks before installing them all. I install .NET, MS Office and Security Essentials Security Definitions as a matter of course and wait for the all clear on the others. The November batch, I installed all but one and still had to reset some of my security options afterwards as you can see the details in a previous post.

[Fubar2Niner]

@RR

3 weeks it is then mate :salute:

Fubar

[AVGWarhawk]

If they practiced full disclosure, gave users control over the telemetry process and....heck that's about all they need to do to regain customer trust. But every time they get the chance to reform their ways they step in even deeper excrement.


The public is very fickle. Remember MySpace? Remember Oldsmobile or Plymouth or the USSR? Huge "irreplaceable" behemoths, gone in a second. Pretty much nobody misses them and Microsoft can go the same way very quickly. All they have to do is totally lose customer trust. It's happening.

MS has one very huge customer, the US government. The government uses MS/IE quite extensively. Many of my inter-company programs I use are IE based. MS is embedded quite deeply.

[Rockin Robbins]

MS has one very huge customer, the US government. The government uses MS/IE quite extensively. Many of my inter-company programs I use are IE based. MS is embedded quite deeply.
Well, parts of the government have already abandoned them.

[Jeff-Groves]

What you guys think?



I think the sky is falling.
:o

Isn't there a conspiracy thread some where this needs moved to?
Or do I earn a red warning thingy for stating the truth?
:har:

[Blazing88's]

So I am doing this post to get downloading again thingy... Saying hi to all the good peeps

[Skybird]

It was in the tech blogs that MS tries to opush W10-code into W7 by simply declaring them as recommended or even security updates, all that sniffware that W7 does not really benefit from anyway. DO NOT TRUST MS PATCH DESCRIPTIONS ANYMORE. They re-relase the unwanted stuff and W10-code injections into W7 under different name, again and again and again, hoping that sooner or later it flies into your system while staying below your radar. Same is true for W10, several of its critical updates - what an euphemism! - simply get re-released time and again, under different names. The very critically welcomed Diagnostic Tool seems to have been given up by MS - until you learn that the same thing still is being released just days ago, just under totally different name. Also, the ammount of time needed to safeguard your W7 installation against this dirt spilled out by MS, is hilarious by now. I do not care for updating my W7 anymore, if you have not noticed it, Fubar2Niner. I described earlier what I did instead. Its the better and more economic solution. Even better would be to maintain TWO separated systems, one for gaming under W7 -AND ONLY THAT -, the other for evertyhign else, using a different OS. Not updating W7 anymore is not ideal, its just the lesser of two evils. Everybody doing like me needs to practice discipline to indeed not use that Windows installation for anythign more than just as a launching platform for his games. Not a single email. No surfing. No nothing. Leave all that for the other installation, the non-Windows OS. - Im doing fine the way I run it since 3 weeks. Windows Updates I do not care for anymore. I would have more trust in some dubious pirateware site from Russia or Romania, than in Microsoft's updates. It seems, so the blogs write, that half or more of W7 "updates" by now do not improve the OS of software anymore, but are busy with preparing the migration to W10 by force, or outreading data for MS that before were not outread by W7 at all - all goodies implemented by W10 that later MS decided to bring into W7 as well. It's all a total mess by now.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, parts of the government have already abandoned them.

Must be janitorial as all government offices I deal with continue to work with MS/IE.

[Rockin Robbins]

Last I knew NASA and the US Navy were two parts of the US Government.

Holy cow! How long has the attachments button been up there beside the smiley button when you post on Subsim? Great job Neal!

[AVGWarhawk]

Last I knew NASA and the US Navy were two parts of the US Government.

Holy cow! How long has the attachments button been up there beside the smiley button when you post on Subsim? Great job Neal!

NASA, Microsoft Collaboration Will Allow Scientists to ‘Work on Mars’



https://www.nasa.gov/press/2015/january/nasa-microsoft-collaboration-will-allow-scientists-to-work-on-mars


I can assure you the Navy also uses MS/IE for day to day operations.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/26/technology/microsoft-windows-xp-navy-contract/

[debbie11]

I don't have any problems running under Windows 10

[debbie11]

ISO for Windows 10 could download free here http://pc4u.org/windows-10-home-pro-version-32-64-bit-iso-full-version-free-download/

[Aktungbby]

debbie11! :Kaleun_Salute:

[Jimbuna]

Welcome to SubSim debbie11 :sunny:

[HW3]

Welcome Aboard fellow Windows 10 user debbie11!!!

[Jimbuna]

Took nearly an hour and a half for the installation of the latest W10 update and noticed Edge had been made a default programme as well as my PDF reader and the printer icon ceased working.

Soon sorted out the above but a little worrying to see that Spybot Anti-Beacon had a few services switched off....put those to rights too and also blocked the CEIP scheduled tasks.

[AVGWarhawk]

Took nearly an hour and a half for the installation of the latest W10 update and noticed Edge had been made a default programme as well as my PDF reader and the printer icon ceased working.

Soon sorted out the above but a little worrying to see that Spybot Anti-Beacon had a few services switched off....put those to rights too and also blocked the CEIP scheduled tasks.


Edge is horrible. Search in the box lower left hand corner IE and you will find the IE that we are familiar with. Pin to your task bar. If you use IE. :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Edge is horrible. Search in the box lower left hand corner IE and you will find the IE that we are familiar with. Pin to your task bar. If you use IE. :hmmm:

Currently using Google Chrome, Chris.

[AVGWarhawk]

Currently using Google Chrome, Chris.

Understood. I primarily use IE as most of my programs and sites I pay bills require IE. Also, I tire of knowing the ins/outs of each type of browser and OS, etc. I try to simplify my life. It is complicated enough!

[Jimbuna]

Understood. I primarily use IE as most of my programs and sites I pay bills require IE. Also, I tire of knowing the ins/outs of each type of browser and OS, etc. I try to simplify my life. It is complicated enough!

Rgr that matey.