can't get rid of destroyers

[Dronston]

Patrol 8, january '41. On my way back to Lorient and I'm at the south entrance of the Irish Sea when I stumble upon a large convoy. I have two eels left in the bow and two in the stern so I decide to try and sink the biggest ship in the convoy which happened to be a British tanker. I had to get within 4 km because I only had electric eels. I release the torpedoes and immediately dive to 90 meters (max depth in this area) and switch to silent running. In the same time I return to my Lorient course. With 50 rpm I hope to sneak away but soon I hear the ominous ping of a destroyer and the depth bombing begins. The destroyer asks 2 others for help and now they take turns trying to blast me out the water.

They have been chasing me for over 3 and a half hours now! So far I only sustained minor damage. They don't seem to run out of depth charges and they don't give up. I am used that at some point they will return to the convoy but that must be over 30 km's away now. I am getting close to 50% of my batteries.

My tactic to avoid depth charges is to go at 1 knot and when my hydrophone oprator informs me of charges in the water I go to full speed.
All 3 boats seem to have sonar so I can't sneak away. In the end I will have to surface. For the moment I am going the opposite direction of the convoy in the hope the destroyers will soon return to them.

I am considering to go to periscope depth and try to take out 2 destroyers with my aft torpedoes but I know this means almost certain death and will in the best scenario still leave one destroyer.
Any tips to get out of my situation?

[Aktungbby]

Well if OTTO Kretschmer could endure the humility so can you. Destroy your enigma. and all codes. Set your charges and blow ballast. Remember your thankyou to the crew speech and have your cleanest T-shirt on a pole so they don't open fire as you broach...you or the exec must handle that detail and it could be dangerous. The fatherland thanks U.......:stare:

[vanjast]

You still have 4.5 hours to go before you beat my record .. :) Track them on the hydrophone and always follow (turn towards) the one that attacks you.. but only after the attack, as this is the next one that will ping you. A gap will soon appear when they're all on the same side... this is when you 'beam' away from the scene. :)

[Dronston]

@Aktungbby (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=313053) thanks for the moral support :shifty:

@vanjast wow, I really hope it won't last that long...
I am not sure what you mean with 'beam away', does that mean speeding away or sneaking away?
Problem I have now is one destroyer starts a run and even before the last depth charge explodes the next in line is already pinging me...I feel I have no chance to escape except for if they leave the scene eventually. I guess I'll take my chances and preserve battery power as much as I can to buy more time. If necessary I will try to attack on my last 10% or so. How I wish settling on the bottom would work...

[Kommandant_Wesser]

i was in this scenario in american i was assigned to raid a harbur and i was getting depth charged at 15 meters i had to ride the bottom (17meters) to escape at 1 knot.

[sublynx]

NYGM, GWX, LSH or vanilla? What is the sea condition and visibility? Day or night? Do you use Stiebler's and/or h.sie's mods? Do you have a guesstimate of who the escorts are? Are they equally good at detecting you? Do they have radar? Any corvettes? Have they lost contact with you for a longer time?

90 meters is pretty awful. I sure hope the seas are at least rough. One mistake I've done is to take the depth charges in the water alarm too seriously. Often the dc's are dropped quite a distance from me. If you cause noise by escaping faster they might spot you again. Changing depth at times and maybe even 0 Rpm at times might be of help. Try to guess where the escort depth charging you is going to turn aftef its run and turn away from it. Go port if it turns to starboard. The one dc'ing you might not be the one that needs to be avoided most. It might be the one going very slowly perhaps listening to you.When you have to use speed try to gain distance to the one escort that you think is the best at spotting you.

I hope someone with shallow water experience can help you with some hints. I haven't been hunted in those kind of waters in years.

Good luck!

[Dronston]

@Aktungbby (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=313053) you suggest giving up before actual defeat. This will not do sir, this will not do. At least not yet...:arrgh!:

[Dronston]

NYGM, GWX, LSH or vanilla? What is the sea condition and visibility? Day or night? Do you use Stiebler's and/or h.sie's mods? Do you have a guesstimate of who the escorts are? Are they equally good at detecting you? Do they have radar? Any corvettes? Have they lost contact with you for a longer time?

90 meters is pretty awful. I sure hope the seas are at least rough. One mistake I've done is to take the depth charges in the water alarm too seriously. Often the dc's are dropped quite a distance from me. If you cause noise by escaping faster they might spot you again. Changing depth at times and maybe even 0 Rpm at times might be of help. Try to guess where the escort depth charging you is going to turn aftef its run and turn away from it. Go port if it turns to starboard. The one dc'ing you might not be the one that needs to be avoided most. It might be the one going very slowly perhaps listening to you.When you have to use speed try to gain distance to the one escort that you think is the best at spotting you.

I hope someone with shallow water experience can help you with some hints. I haven't been hunted in those kind of waters in years.

Good luck!

GWX. Sea is calm, flat no waves whatsoever, at the moment it's about 1 pm, no clouds, visibilty at max... No Stiebler's and/or h.sie's mods. No idea who the escorts are, all seem equally 'talented'. I'm not good at understanding the difference between destroyers and corvettes, one of them is smaller than the res, don't know if they have radar, they never saw me on the surface or detected me before my attack.

The way I try to escape is to go slow (silent running of course) until depth charges are released, than I speed up to avoid them, sometimes I order hard rudder starboard or port. As soon as I think the last charge detonated or when they explode far away I order 1 knot again. I tried to vary my depth but I need some water above me to outrun the charges. Problem in this case is that I am being constantly pinged so I never seem to be 'lost'.

I also tried to just hover in the water at 0 speed but that almost got me killed and damaged my forward deck and cannon and flak gun. I guess I will also avoid shallow waters for a while if I survive this ordeal.

[Aktungbby]

Well I suspect your up against a well trained 'hunt to destruction' oriented flotilla with its act together and in shallow water to boot.:down: " One highly successful tactic employed by Walker was the creeping attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creeping_attack_(naval_tactic)), where two ships would work together to keep contact with a U –boat whilst attacking; a refinement of this was the barrage attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrage_attack_(naval_tactic)), which had three or more sloops in line to launch depth charges to saturate the area with depth charges in a manner similar to a rolling barrage by artillery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery) in advance of an infantry attack." It's a little early in the war yet for Johnny Walker. You'd best have some of the Schnapps yourself and hand out the medic's medicinal brandy...that water's cold. Have a better day than Prien or Schepke! :huh: It's what I love about SHII: the option to surrender! Who want's to die for an Austrian corporal who doesn't like the navy anyhow-" At sea I am a coward"-der Fuhrer!???:stare: :/\\!!

[Dronston]

But, but, but it's supposed to be the happy times for us at this stage of the war...:wah:


Well I suspect your up against a well trained 'hunt to destruction' oriented flotilla with its act together and in shallow water to boot.:down: " One highly successful tactic employed by Walker was the creeping attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creeping_attack_(naval_tactic)), where two ships would work together to keep contact with a U –boat whilst attacking; a refinement of this was the barrage attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrage_attack_(naval_tactic)), which had three or more sloops in line to launch depth charges to saturate the area with depth charges in a manner similar to a rolling barrage by artillery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery) in advance of an infantry attack." It's a little early in the war yet for Johnny Walker. You'd best have some of the Schnapps yourself and hand out the medic's medicinal brandy...that water's cold. Have a better day than Prien or Schepke! :huh: It's what I love about SHII: the option to surrender! Who want's to die for an Austrian corporal who doesn't like the navy anyhow-" At sea I am a coward"-der Fuhrer!???:stare: :/\\!!

[Downunderjock]

Hi.

Have you ever tried it let them (the destroyers.) Leap Frog over you???

It sometimes, works. But make sure your periscope is completely down, first.

Go a full steam ahead, at periscope depth, letting them chase you. Don't alter your course.

And no more than about two maybe three of them, you do this too.

In some cases, you may not receive a lot of damage, or maybe none. (depending on the game setting for realism, you have set up.)

And admittedly, you may get major damage, but you might just take a few of them, too.

If it work's for you. You may see some limp away from you badly, or after going over the top of you, sink then and there, away from you.

Did this in SH4 and SH5, too.


See Ya

[Dronston]

Sounds like a risky strategy but I may try it when I feel I have no options left, it may even help me get rid of the third destroyer if I can torpedo the other two.

Hi.

Have you ever tried it let them (the destroyers.) Leap Frog over you???

It sometimes, works. But make sure your periscope is completely down, first.

Go a full steam ahead, at periscope depth, letting them chase you. Don't alter your course.

And no more than about two maybe three of them, you do this too.

In some cases, you may not receive a lot of damage, or maybe none. (depending on the game setting for realism, you have set up.)

And admittedly, you may get major damage, but you might just take a few of them, too.

If it work's for you. You may see some limp away from you badly, or after going over the top of you, sink then and there, away from you.

Did this in SH4 and SH3, too.


See Ya

[sublynx]

Oh my. You really have a tough situation. More water and/or worse weather the next time would make survival easier. You need to lose the pinging. When I say lose I don't mean not hearing it, but the sound getting weak. When the pinging is strong you know they know exactly where you are. There's a "we see you" ping and a "searching" ping, and a "almost found you" ping - the only difference being the strength of the noise. You need to go fast and turn until you guess the pinging sound indicates they have lost contact. At that time you go back to silent running (or even 0 RPM but just for few seconds or tens of seconds) and you turn with the speed burst you still have from the higher RPM's. Turn to the direction you estimate gains the most distance to the escorts. Then you keep the course straight and steady if the pinging doesn't indicate they are pinpointing you again.

The small ship is probably a corvette. In my experience they often act as eyes for the destroyers with larger stock of depth charges. He might drop his own RPM's quite often to listen to you. You might consider trying to escape the hydrophone contact with the quietest noise - but first you need to use that prescious battery power to lose the pinging.

[danasan]

It could end like this (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=216820) ...

Good luck is all you need now :yep:.

[sublynx]

Here's a picture on the avoiding thing:

http://i.imgur.com/UgVLkFC.jpg

If you manage to shake them off for an instance, in GWX I remember sometimes being able to just keep a steady silent course with no changes to the course. In NYGM that wouldn't work, at least to my knowledge. Of course the 90 meters depth might make that impossible.

And what the picture doesn't take into account is the fact there is a 3rd escort that you also need to avoid. It is probably making DC runs against you as well, so probably the spotter is the one that you need to avoid most.

The depth charge attackers lose contact momentarily after every run. They can't ASDIC to their stern. The spotter who keeps listening to you might have a contact on you all the time. He's the biggest threat, but he is also slow, as he needs to be almost dead in water in order to hear you.

Use your speed bursts to gain distance to the one who is listening. The speed bursts are not only for the purpose of avoiding the explosions.

One thing more. You probably know it already, but some others might not know that the sound of explosions in SH3 don't hinder the escorts from listening to you. In the good old days with Aces in the Deep, you almost welcomed a good DC'ing because the ruckus enabled one to cruise away at flank speed until it was quiet again.

[Dronston]

Thanks sublynx, the strategy in the picture is what I usually do.

But: I went to periscope depth and managed to torpedo the corvette. Unfortunately I missed a destroyer so I am now out of eels.

ATM I am back to 90 meters to see how the dance with the 2 destroyers works out.

[Jimbuna]

Doesn't one just love the AI in GWX http://s4.postimg.org/d56tfu4bd/whistle_1.gif (http://postimage.org/)

[Dronston]

@Jimbuna (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=223849) well I wont be hunting in shallow water for a while that's for damn sure...Also I will only carry the steam powered eels until better torpedoes come along so I can keep more distance to the convoy (escorts) to begin with.
With hindsight I probably should have approached the convoy head on and not from the side so I could have dived under the convoy.

[Dronston]

Well, I got tired of the dance and decided to put my boat at the bottom. I fully expected to get destroyed but strangely enough so far I had only one hit causing only minor flooding which my crew soon repaired. It seems one destroyer is now out of depth charges and the other only throws some ever hour and a half or so. But they keep pinging me and circling my position.

I have been on the bottom for hours now (compressed time x32) and decided to wait 'till dark, preserving battery power. Oxygen should last another good couple of hours. I hope to maybe sneak away on the surface in the dark, maybe I can get some hits with my deck gun in the process.

http://i.imgur.com/g5DJdzB.jpg

[Dronston]

Well, wow...I escaped!!!!!
At about 8 pm I rose from the bottom, still being pinged by both destroyers but they had not thrown charges for hours so both were out. Rose to periscope depth but they were still so close to me that risking surfacing would have been certain death. I plotted a course to the small island group in BF24 hpoint to reach that and maybe ground the destroyers. But in reality it would have too far away. At about 11 pm a corvette joined the party so I was up against 3 foes again, one some depth charging started once again, none hit.

I just kept my course but at around 3 AM suddenly the pinging stopped...I stayed as deep as possible at 1 knot for another hour and then rose to persiscope depth again. They were gone, I still heard and detected a flower class to my starboard side at bout 13 km's away.

So I am now on the surface at full speed while charging my batteries and restoring oxygen and compressed air.

All in all about 17 (game-) hours of cat and mice...but I survived!:yeah:

[Jimbuna]

Well, wow...I escaped!!!!!
At about 8 pm I rose from the bottom, still being pinged by both destroyers but they had not thrown charges for hours so both were out. Rose to periscope depth but they were still so close to me that risking surfacing would have been certain death. I plotted a course to the small island group in BF24 hpoint to reach that and maybe ground the destroyers. But in reality it would have too far away. At about 11 pm a corvette joined the party so I was up against 3 foes again, one some depth charging started once again, none hit.

I just kept my course but at around 3 AM suddenly the pinging stopped...I stayed as deep as possible at 1 knot for another hour and then rose to persiscope depth again. They were gone, I still heard and detected a flower class to my starboard side at bout 13 km's away.

So I am now on the surface at full speed while charging my batteries and restoring oxygen and compressed air.

All in all about 17 (game-) hours of cat and mice...but I survived!:yeah:

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! http://imageshack.com/a/img691/3233/1f5.gif (https://imageshack.com/i/j71f5g)

[Andrewsdad]

My technique... Propellers moving less than 50 rpm. While the depth charges explode go to full ahead, not emergency ahead.
As soon as the charges stop exploding go to all stop.
Let the boat coast to one knot, then resume the 50 rpm on motors.

Rinse and repeat as needed...

Good luck !!!
AD

PS.. Just saw that you made your escape !!! Sehr gut !!!

Sublynx... Are you sure that the destroyers can hear "through" the exploding charges? I always thought that it was the case that they couldn't....

AD

[sublynx]

About the hearing through explosions. I remember someone I esteemed more knowledgeable than me talking about this some time ago but can't pinpoint the thread anymore.

One more thing about evasion. At least in NYGM a perpendicular speed burst is sometimes not enough. A double knuckleboard and then towards the next pinging escort at a good speed is often needed. The maneuver is the most efficient way of gaining distance to the depth charge running escorts - after they run over you and then have to make a 180 degree turn towards you. I hesitate to do that as I always fear that the depth charges hit me when I'm running under them. NYGM's manual calls for a very active approach on evasion. One needs to alternate between running one knot to hide, 2-3 knot to gain distance, and top speed to escape dc'ing, all depending on where the escorts are. Needless to say I've become extremely reluctant to attack in a situation where I am at risk of being found out.

[Zosimus]

Yes, destroyers do normally hear through explosions (cheating bastards) but there's a mod that removes their ability to do so.

[Vince82]

It's a mod by the Darkwraith:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=181513


I like this thread, don't really have the time anymore to play or post. Used to play NYGM about 8 years ago, I still have sh3 installed (gwx but with better sensors for AI). The best I got with that installed was maybe 40000 tons.

[Dronston]

It's a mod by the Darkwraith:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=181513


I like this thread, don't really have the time anymore to play or post. Used to play NYGM about 8 years ago, I still have sh3 installed (gwx but with better sensors for AI). The best I got with that installed was maybe 40000 tons.

Thanks for the tip but I read some reports that this mod causes CTD's?

[scott_c2911]

During my last patrol in Jan 45 I found myself in an almost identical situation as the op. 3.5 hours later and the depth charges were starting to thin out. I noticed from the sounds that they were no longer rolling them off the deck but only using dc throwers. I hadnt changed course in ages. The type xxi is fast enough at avoiding the charges without trying fancy manouvers. As the situation developed further I also observed that the escort was always coming from directly astern matching our course exactly and running directly over the boat. In this situation I realised that at any depth up to periscope depth I would be perfectly safe. I also guessed that the escort would carry on for at least 600m before making a turn. I had by this point lost one dd and were now down to 2. I had plenty of eels but none were homing types so I couldnt spray and pray. I came up to periscope depth but left the scope down. A dd approached as usual. I quickly set the torps for 2m impact and set the pattern to zig zag around after 600m. As the dd passed over I started to bring the scope up. I aimed between the screws and after the dd passed 300m I fired. I blew the stern clean off her. Depth charges straddled us perfectly but caused no damage as none were rolled off the deck too. The last dd was more luck than judgement. Due to the ability to zig zag after firing, one torp scored a lucky hit on the second dd as he lined up off the starboard quarter. I surfaced immediatley into the early morning twilight and sped North back towards the faroe isles.
Why did the dds only use throwers after 3.5 hours?
It must have been to conserve ammo.

[BigWalleye]

Thanks for the tip but I read some reports that this mod causes CTD's?

Some of us have experienced CTDs with it. And some have pinpointed TDW's mod as the cause. That said, there are also a lot of people who use or have used this mod successfully. And TDW is one of the best modders out there - he's coscientious and he doesn't release half-tested crap. So if you are interested, I wouldn't hesitate to give it a try. If you do start experiencing CTDs, you'll know right away how to remedy the problem.

[Dronston]

Some of us have experienced CTDs with it. And some have pinpointed TDW's mod as the cause. That said, there are also a lot of people who use or have used this mod successfully. And TDW is one of the best modders out there - he's coscientious and he doesn't release half-tested crap. So if you are interested, I wouldn't hesitate to give it a try. If you do start experiencing CTDs, you'll know right away how to remedy the problem.

Very true, I will give it a go.

[sublynx]

Great! I'll try this mod ASAP. Hopefully I'm lucky...

[LGN1]

I doubt this mod works in SH3 at all. I have done many tests with it and could not see any difference in the escorts' behavior at all.

In additions, no one could give me an example where I can see that it works. Even in TDW's proposal I could not see any difference.

I wish I was wrong because I tried many times to model such a disturbance, but until I see proof that it works, I don't believe it (no matter who made the mod, I trust in tests not in names).

Regards, LGN1

[BigWalleye]

I doubt this mod works in SH3 at all. I have done many tests with it and could not see any difference in the escorts' behavior at all.

In additions, no one could give me an example where I can see that it works. Even in TDW's proposal I could not see any difference.

I wish I was wrong because I tried many times to model such a disturbance, but until I see proof that it works, I don't believe it (no matter who made the mod, I trust in tests not in names).

Regards, LGN1

LGN1, I never said that it worked.:) All I said was that, based on posted reports, a lot of people use it without experiencing CTDs. It does CTD my installation, so I don't use it and have never tested its performance. You have tried it and see no change in escort behavior - that's useful information.

[Dronston]

I understood that the parameters of the mod can be changed, duration, affected area and so on. A good test would be to exaggerate those settings to test if it works or not.

[sublynx]

I had a look to TDW's mod. From what little I understood, I'm guessing TDW was able to make this mod by simulating the disturbances caused by the explosions by using the game engine's BOLD canisters. If my guess is correct, the "water disturbances" are in effect automatically released BOLD canisters, somehow linked to the depth charging.

If it is like this, it's a really clever way of bending the game engine to do (or rather fake) something what TDW wanted it do.

The crude solution to the fact that the mod causes CTD's, or doesn't seem to work at all would be to cheat:

1. modify the game in a way that gives you BOLD canisters from the start of the war
2. give yourself an unrestricted amount of BOLD canisters
3. modify the BOLD canisters in a way that you think is the correct delay in the enemy hearing you after an explosion
4. have the self-discipline to only use them during explosions - when there's an explosion you have the right to release a BOLD canister

It's a really ugly solution, but I think this should be doable, even with next to no modding experience.

Many problems here, one being the effectiveness of the game engine's BOLD canisters. From what I remember from the one time I survived until 1944 GWX, the BOLD canisters didn't seem to help at all. I'm pretty certain they were very effective when they first appeared, though.

Another problem is the linking of BOLD canisters to explosions. The dual task would cause problems when the BOLD canisters are introduced. The values used to simulate explosion disturbances might not be very sensible to simulate BOLD canister releases.

Another thing came to my mind. Would it be possible to link flank speed key to the releasing of a BOLD canister? Perhaps with SetKeys? With h.sie's engine failure settings I rarely use flank speed, except to avoid imminent depth charging. A more experienced modder might be able to connect flank speed + BOLD together, and then give the option of putting the connection on and off. Like h.sie's mod with its ability to switch time compression limit on and off to enable one to cruise at a bigger time compression even if there are other ships closeby.

Sorry if I'm ranting and unclear, but the possibility of perhaps being able to play with the explosion disturbances simulated is just so exciting :arrgh!:

[LGN1]

I understood that the parameters of the mod can be changed, duration, affected area and so on. A good test would be to exaggerate those settings to test if it works or not.

That's exactly what TDW proposed and what I did in one of my tests. Result: No difference observed. You can read the original thread and see some tests I did.

I had a look to TDW's mod. From what little I understood, I'm guessing TDW was able to make this mod by simulating the disturbances caused by the explosions by using the game engine's BOLD canisters. If my guess is correct, the "water disturbances" are in effect automatically released BOLD canisters, somehow linked to the depth charging.

....

The crude solution to the fact that the mod causes CTD's, or doesn't seem to work at all would be to cheat:

1. modify the game in a way that gives you BOLD canisters from the start of the war
2. give yourself an unrestricted amount of BOLD canisters
3. modify the BOLD canisters in a way that you think is the correct delay in the enemy hearing you after an explosion
4. have the self-discipline to only use them during explosions - when there's an explosion you have the right to release a BOLD canister



That's correct how it works. The problem is that somehow the bold is treated differently from the game than a bold released by the player (see my tests).

I also had the same idea with releasing the bold by yourself. However, the main problem is that the bold in this case is released next to you! So, imaging you are 1000m away from the hunting escorts who might or might not have lost contact with you. Now they throw DCs 1000m away. Will you release a bold that acts as a sound source and might attract the escorts again to your position?

I would really love to see a mod that simulates DC disturbances. That's why I have already spent much time on finding a way to do it, but nothing has worked yet. I hope someone else might find a solution...

Regards, LGN1

PS: Another issue I would like to solve is the 'non-reaction' of ships to a dud torpedo. In SH3 a dud torpedo explodes next to an escort and nothing happens. It's just ignored... :nope:

I tried to solve this by spawning a dummy DC with a huge explosion radius and little damage HP from the dud explosion. In fact, this worked, ships got damaged, but unfortunately didn't react. My theory is that the resulting damage was not considered as coming from 'the enemy' by the game engine (like damage from waves, friendly fire,...) and, thus, no action was taken :-?

[sublynx]

oh damn. The distance was something I did not think about...

[Jeff-Groves]

Part of the CTD issues can be resolved by renaming the dat and a part inside the dat.
:88)

[Downunderjock]

To Dronston and all.

If the Leap Frogging idea, I posted the other day. Was not in the spirit of Submariners, as to avoiding Destroyers, etc.

Or as in the real world, at the time. during WW2 (or WW1.)

As they possibly never did that, for good reasons. And I am aware, of a few. By all means Keel Haul me. And feed me to the sharks.

I just couldn't get over the fact, that it at first, happened to me by accident. Which I didn't expect, too be honest.

I was expecting, instant sinking to the depths, below. Instead, when I got little or no damage, from time to time. It was the destroyers who suffered.

As in some cases, it wreaked their Rudders, or because both my Sub and the DD, was doing Full Steam Ahead, etc.

It ripped out their Propellers, or damaged the hull around the Bow, or both. Which, I either had instant explosion, or them sinking, in some cases.

Or, they limped way, slowly or at speed, with a bent or no rudder or missing Props.

And them, for some slowly sank.

Anyway, like I mentioned, if this is not how it might have happened, in the real world, at the time, pardon for that, to you all.

Take care.

See Ya.

[Vince82]

Patrol 8, january '41. On my way back to Lorient and I'm at the south entrance of the Irish Sea when I stumble upon a large convoy. I have two eels left in the bow and two in the stern so I decide to try and sink the biggest ship in the convoy which happened to be a British tanker. I had to get within 4 km because I only had electric eels. I release the torpedoes and immediately dive to 90 meters (max depth in this area) and switch to silent running. In the same time I return to my Lorient course. With 50 rpm I hope to sneak away but soon I hear the ominous ping of a destroyer and the depth bombing begins. The destroyer asks 2 others for help and now they take turns trying to blast me out the water.

They have been chasing me for over 3 and a half hours now! So far I only sustained minor damage. They don't seem to run out of depth charges and they don't give up. I am used that at some point they will return to the convoy but that must be over 30 km's away now. I am getting close to 50% of my batteries.

My tactic to avoid depth charges is to go at 1 knot and when my hydrophone oprator informs me of charges in the water I go to full speed.
All 3 boats seem to have sonar so I can't sneak away. In the end I will have to surface. For the moment I am going the opposite direction of the convoy in the hope the destroyers will soon return to them.

I am considering to go to periscope depth and try to take out 2 destroyers with my aft torpedoes but I know this means almost certain death and will in the best scenario still leave one destroyer.
Any tips to get out of my situation?

I wonder if it wouldn't have been better to let the convoy go, because it's 90m and you have just four torpedoes left. Maybe it's better to just find a single undefend ship and fire two torpedoes and than go to Lorient for resupply?

[Dronston]

I wonder if it wouldn't have been better to let the convoy go, because it's 90m and you have just four torpedoes left. Maybe it's better to just find a single undefend ship and fire two torpedoes and than go to Lorient for resupply?

Yeah, that would have been the wiser decision. But considering it is only just '41 I thought I could get away with it (which in the end I did even though I thought me and my crew were toast). And someone told me to "be more aggressive". But you can be sure after this I will only risk such an attack in deeper waters or simply return home with my handful of eels, especially when the counter measures will only get better as the war progresses.

[Aktungbby]

Yeah, that would have been the wiser . But you can be sure after this I will only risk such an attack in deeper waters or simply return home with my handful of eels, especially when the counter measures will only get better as the war progresses.
and in shallow water to boot.:down:WELL GRASSHOPPER...something 'sank in':O: ...besides your expensive U-boat! Halsschmerzen — "sore throat" or "itchy neck;" was the term used to describe a reckless or glory-seeking commander, implying an obsession with winning the Knight's Cross (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_German_military_terms#RK). Try not to let what is 'hanging (hopefully) around your neck' interfere with what is 'between your ears'.:Kaleun_Salute:

[BigWalleye]

As has been said: "There are old Kaleuns. And there are bold Kaleuns. But there are NO old AND bold Kaleuns."

[Jeff-Groves]

somehow linked to the depth charging.


It's linked through the particals. Follow the Id's.
:03:

[Jeff-Groves]

Try not to let what is 'hanging (hopefully) around your neck' interfere with what is 'between your ears'.
A very good example is Franz Stigler.
One kill away from the Knight's Cross, he followed what was 'between his ears'.

[LGN1]

Has anyone else done some more tests to figure out whether the mod works as intended?


Part of the CTD issues can be resolved by renaming the dat and a part inside the dat.
:88)

Just for curiosity, Jeff, are there any 'name conventions' in SH3?

Regards, LGN1

[Jeff-Groves]

Umlauts have caused problems.
I've seen long names cause problems at times also.
Duplicate names in multiple files have caused problems on weird occasions.
It's mostly hit or miss as far as I can tell.

[vanjast]

This is my technique for avoiding multiple escorts attacks.

You have to man the hydrophone station through out the whole episode as it requires keeping track of each escort... You can be a very busy Kaleun :har:

Go as deep as you can and start the monitoring process.. a speed of 2 knots will be fine (just enough to keep you bouyant), and silent running.

(A) Usually there is a 'stationary' ship off to the side (the Tracker) pinging you like crazy. There might be more than one if you have a 'pinging madness'.
While they tracking you one of his friends will be creeping up your rear end to drop a few 'WasserBomben'. You'll hear this escort on the hyrdophone..
Do not worry about the other escorts they're not attacking at the moment.. keep your ears on the attacker.
When the Attacker decides to go for it, it'll speed up and turn off to the one side.. You do the same and follow it, as this escort will be the next tracker and you want to get under him asap. Full speed for a minute or two usually suffices.

(B) The reason for getting close now becomes obvious. Once he's finished his attack this escort will slow down, if not come to a halt. and then try to locate you. If you're deep and close enough he will not detect you.
also you will now present a low profile to the next potential attacker.
If there are a few other ships 'floating around' they might still pick you up, but they can only attack one at a time. (unless they're carpet bombing).

(C) Heading under the previous attacker, presents a dilema for our 'digital captains' above.
They can go 'hell for leather' and try attack you - and ram the other ship, compounded by the DC's they've just dropped.. They will just sink themselves.
They cannot creep up on you or drop any DC's as they're now 'check-mated'.
They will 'reset' their attack.. which give you time to sneak away.

The more escorts there are the more you'll have to repeat this cycle.
It works very well (spent 2 sessions (with 4+ escorts) of 8 hours with no damage and 6 hours with scope damage on the first attack, but nothing thereafter) and as soon as you have them all behind you.. keep your heading. They will sweep wide, so turn and twist to expose a low profile.

[sublynx]

Thanks for the tactic, vanjast. I'll be sure to try it. Have you tried it in NYGM? Does it work well in the later war years as well?

[sublynx]

Has anyone else done some more tests to figure out whether the mod works as intended?

I have the mod on right now, and external views enabled so perhaps I could get a peek how things look if I end up hunted.

However, I don't believe I could tell the difference if it worked or not. I have usually played without external views or without taking a peek at the escorts, so I don't know really know that well what their usual routine looks like. I only have an idea what it sounds like in the hydrophone.

[vanjast]

Thanks for the tactic, vanjast. I'll be sure to try it. Have you tried it in NYGM? Does it work well in the later war years as well?

I last tried it with NYGM in mid 1943... then I got side tracked, but don't see why it shouldn't work throughout the war period.

[LGN1]

Umlauts have caused problems.
I've seen long names cause problems at times also.
Duplicate names in multiple files have caused problems on weird occasions.
It's mostly hit or miss as far as I can tell.

Thanks, Jeff!

[sublynx]

I last tried it with NYGM in mid 1943... then I got side tracked, but don't see why it shouldn't work throughout the war period.

If it works in mid 1943 NYGM I guess it works in all supermods and all through the war. I was thinking that escort skill level and equipment might (or might not) have some influence but apparently not.

[vanjast]

I took me about a hour+ to shake them, but then each time they'd sweep wide and regain contact... bloody annoying :arrgh!: .. and the whole process again.. and again.

Eventually I could only make out 2 escorts on the hydrophone when I finally escaped. I wasn't sure whether they had sunk themselves. and the occasional DCs were going off in the distance. After and hour 'on the escape run' I'd have a peek in the scope.
4 buggers all there.. 3 close by and 2 DCing, while 1 just sitting there, and the fourth in the distance doing a slow wide sweep.
Scope down.. 200m and outa there!! :up:

Escort tactics had radically changed in '43
:03:

[sublynx]

Escort tactics had radically changed in '43
:03:

Oh no. :down: I'm already panicking if I'm caught by a couple of 1941 escorts :dead:

[vanjast]

Forgot to mention.. never be tempted to increase speed above 2 knots or secure from silent running.. they will find you :) .. stay at 2 knots and silent running until you're over the horizon..

[sublynx]

thanks, that's good to know. better not get too impatient and just respect the escorts hearing capability.

[Walruss]

Part of the CTD issues can be resolved by renaming the dat and a part inside the dat.
:88)

Could you be more specific? I believe I'm experiencing the CTD after loading my first save post ship-sinking bug and would like to remedy it quickly!

[K-61]

Speaking of BOLDs, does anybody know how many are in stock when they are available? I have used them a few times and never exhausted my supply, but it would be nice to know how many I actually have aboard.

Also, I may need some advice as how best to utilize them. I've released a few, but I am not sure if my evasion tactics with them are the best. I kind of dump them out and pray without really having confidence in them. My evasion tactics without BOLDs, I am okay with them, but I am not really sure how to get the most from my BOLDs.

[McDonnel]

This has been most helpful :Kaleun_Applaud:

I am right now in GWX 3.0 Gold at beginning (Sept 8th 1939) and returning from my patrol in BF18 - and ho, just north of Ireland, since I dare not using the Port of Calais anymore, a convoy shows up - three escorts so far, frigate, destroyer and something unknown yet.

So I decide to engage - still plenty of eels, BF was empty, because the whole fun just started, no damage on u-boot, so I plot the path, get in between the lanes of the convoy and decide to lie dead until convoy is up over me, then go to periscope depth and blast at least 2-3 eels before diving away and disappearing into the blue.

With VIIB this should be ea.... :hmmm:

Well, it isn´t - All is quiet, sonar guy reports slow and steady approach, no speeding from the nearest warship - and blast, few moments later, for some reason, the front destroyer starts sonar pings suddenly and they are all over me, even if I am on "all stop" and silent running, no changes in the course.

No idea what prompts that search, or if the escorts search like this the whole way of the convoy (damn, if this is the case, I do agree I never want to be a sonar operator).

Guess I will have to move from those lanes to side and try it there, or take out the escorts first...

[Jimbuna]

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! http://i.imgur.com/zRozXCA.gif

[Kendras]

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! http://i.imgur.com/zRozXCA.gif

Like that ? :up:

http://i.imgur.com/kqR5wp3.png

[BarracudaUAK]

I did that once in a XXI... DD was dead in the water but wasn't sinking, out of torpedoes, so I shot it up with my AA, still didn't sink.

I decied to get "midieval" on it!:D
So I rammed it, didn't sink.... I backed up about a 1km off, and submerged, charged it at flank speed, and blew ballast, ended up with my bow -just aft of the torpedo tubes- on top of the ship.

Back full, ordered a dive and pulled it under... it finally sank. Then I returned to port to get patched up.:har:

Barracuda

[Jimbuna]

Most innovative :doh:

[Kendras]

Most innovative :doh:

Not really. It's an old technique ! :D

http://i.imgur.com/kufzXsV.jpg

[BarracudaUAK]

Not really. It's an old technique ! :D

http://i.imgur.com/kufzXsV.jpg


Yep, it worked in the middle ages, and the 19th century, why not in 1944/45?:haha:

What's "more aggressive" than RAMMING your target?:har:

Barracuda

[ValoWay]

In real life DDs were supposed to escort a convoy they were assigned to but how does that work out in sh3? Assuming that a convoy keeps on going while DDs keep depth charging me will those DDs eventually leave at some point because of the convoy getting too far away from them or will they stay with me until they the lose track of me no matter what?

Does anybody know how the AI in sh3 deals with that situation cause I'm generally curious after reading this thread!

[Jimbuna]

If a DD loses contact with you for a certain length of game time (I can't remember the precise figure but 15 minutes is ringing a distant bell) they will move on and rejoin the convoy or their pre-determined scripted track.

[UKönig]

Speaking of BOLDs, does anybody know how many are in stock when they are available? I have used them a few times and never exhausted my supply, but it would be nice to know how many I actually have aboard.

Also, I may need some advice as how best to utilize them. I've released a few, but I am not sure if my evasion tactics with them are the best. I kind of dump them out and pray without really having confidence in them. My evasion tactics without BOLDs, I am okay with them, but I am not really sure how to get the most from my BOLDs.

I have used the pillenwefer "bold" to positive results. I have counted a payload of 5 canisters before "wir haben kein bold mehr"... I have used them to pull the attention of nosy destroyers on patrol, and when they came in to investigate, I'd get them with either a G7e or a seeker, depending on circumstances. I've used them mostly to fool enemy sound men into attacking a depth level that I am no longer at. I've learned a lot about how the sonar sets worked and how they didn't, and that's been a huge help to determine how or when an escort may lose track of me...