What exactly does the gyro do?

[Waervyn]

Heya!

I just bought and modded the game to Wolves of Steel.
Excellent stuff!
I did the Four Bearings tutorial, which was really great, really really helpful.

However, I was a bit confused at the end.
Basically you line yourself up to be at a 90 degree angle with your target, and set the speed of the target, as well as its angle from you (90 degrees).

However...afterwards, you need to put your gyro's on double 0, and fire when the target is in your sight...but I have no idea why! What does the gyro do? Why does it need to be put at double 0, and why don't I have to put in the distance to the target? Speed of the target and the distance towards it should influence whether I miss or hit right?

Thanks a lot for your time, and thanks to everyone for the mods. If I keep playing this game I'll be sure to donate (have to leave for 2.5 months tomorrow, so can't really explore the game much unfortunately :( )

Cheers and thanks again!

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Waervyn

There are 2 gyros

Left is usually the U-Boat

Right is usually the Target

The gyros move round with the Target locked.

The optimum firing position is when both gyros show 0 degrees.

This is done by adjusting your periscope bearing to achieve the 0 degree gyro angle.

At 90 degrees your periscope bearing will be at 0 degrees.

So you may end up with your periscope bearing at 8 degrees to get 0 degree gyro angles.

When the Target crosses 8 degrees on your periscope crosshair you fire your torpedoes.

It is important to get the correct speed.

The range is not so important when firing at 90 degrees.

You will already know the AOB.

Peter

[Aktungbby]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo_Data_Computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo_Data_Computer) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Intercept.pngRemember von Clauscewitz ON War "...in War every thing is simple; but sometimes the simple thing is...difficult.":know:

[reignofdeath]

Heya!

I just bought and modded the game to Wolves of Steel.
Excellent stuff!
I did the Four Bearings tutorial, which was really great, really really helpful.

However, I was a bit confused at the end.
Basically you line yourself up to be at a 90 degree angle with your target, and set the speed of the target, as well as its angle from you (90 degrees).

However...afterwards, you need to put your gyro's on double 0, and fire when the target is in your sight...but I have no idea why! What does the gyro do? Why does it need to be put at double 0, and why don't I have to put in the distance to the target? Speed of the target and the distance towards it should influence whether I miss or hit right?

Thanks a lot for your time, and thanks to everyone for the mods. If I keep playing this game I'll be sure to donate (have to leave for 2.5 months tomorrow, so can't really explore the game much unfortunately :( )

Cheers and thanks again!

HELLO AGAIN :arrgh!:

As I stated in your other post, the gyro being on "0 and 0" means that you are looking at where you want your target to be, with the information you entered (Speed, Direction, your position relative to him [AOB], etc) , so that when you fire, your torpedo will meet him at the point you chose youre torpedo to fire to (In this case, right infront of you)

A Fast 90 (That is the name of the shot) Eliminates the need for range calculations, I still do them honestly because its good practice. When you are at 90 degrees, your targets range becomes irrelevant.

You can actually use this in practice with Convoys. Say you have 2 columns of ships traveling together. You line up on the column closest to you, and pick the first ship in the column as your target. So you dash ahead of him and set up 90 Degrees off his bow, and get your TDC all set and set your scope to where your gyro reads 0. Now the first ship that crosses your sights would actually be the first ship in the second column instead of the one that you set up for (The first in the column closest to you)
[IF YOU LOOK AT IT IN THE MAP, THEY ARE SIDE BY SIDE KIND OF]

BUT! THIS IS OKAY! You can actually bag two ships with 2 torpedos, just click fire when you are ready (As long as your solution is correct, and you are at a 0 gyro angle) Then when the ship you originally want crosses your crosshairs, fire at him. The torpedoes will both impact at the same time. Even though you set your range to the first one.

You can also check this by viewing your solution line, set up for a Fast 90, and look at your torpedo solution line in the TAI or the NavMap, now adjust the range from 5km to 1km to whatever you want. You should notice it only gets longer or shorter, it shouldn't move left or right at all.

Sorry for the long explanation, but I hope this helps.

PS: There are also diagrams of it around here somewhere...:hmm2:

EDIT: If Someone could post the GIF of the sub shooting torpedos at multiple convoy targets that shows range is irrelevant, that would illustrate this greatly. Thanks!

[Waervyn]

Thanks for all the replies, really helpful! And also thanks for the graph drawing! So the gyro is actually the angle of the rotors in the torpedo?

When you are at 90 degrees, your targets range becomes irrelevant.


This I still don't understand, sorry. If your torpedo's have a certain speed, they have to travel further (and thus longer) if the boat is further away right? How is it that range becomes irrelevant?

[Sailor Steve]

This I still don't understand, sorry. If your torpedo's have a certain speed, they have to travel further (and thus longer) if the boat is further away right? How is it that range becomes irrelevant?
At most angles the target and torpedo are heading for the same spot, but at different speeds and different angles. I'm not good enough at math to understand the equations, but I do understand that range is important.

At ninety degrees they are heading for the same spot but also at the same angle. If the torpedo is moving twice as fast as the target it will reach the impact point in half the time, no matter what the range is. This much I do understand. :sunny:

[Trevally.]

Heya!


I did the Four Bearings tutorial, which was really great, really really helpful.



There should be more in game tutorials you can try that will explain how it all works:up:

[Laconic]

This I still don't understand, sorry. If your torpedo's have a certain speed, they have to travel further (and thus longer) if the boat is further away right? How is it that range becomes irrelevant?

Range becomes irrelevant because, if your angle of attack is 90 degrees, then all targets in a particular line will pass your bow at the same time as long as they are in parallel formation to each other (as nearly all multiple-column convoys are). This means that if you fire your torpedoes on a solution to impact at 000 bearing from your boat they will all impact at the same time regardless of the range. The targets could be 10m or 10km away...it doesn't matter as long as their speed and course are the same, they are parallel to each other, and you are set up to attack them at a 90 degree angle. Here's a simple but very elegant animation detailing the tactic (credit to Rockin' Robbins).

The green line is the bearing the scope is pointed at (the shoot-solution for a 90 degree attack), and the blue line is the 000 course for the torpedoes. The submarine fires a torpedo as each red target crosses its wire; because of the changing perspective of the convoy, each target presents itself to that bearing at a different moment, making it possible to target them separately as they cross your bearing. The torpedoes should impact simultaneously regardless of the range due to the intercept angle of 90 degrees.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/Manual%20TDC%20Range/OKanemethodanimation.gif

Here's one video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP16g605MKw&list=UUHR1zAvifzMXj3H7dCMAlnw) that shows the technique; I'll upload another one shortly that shows it even better (in daylight and at greater range).

[Laconic]

Here's the second video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh7qD-EICCM) It's currently uploading and will be available shortly.

Note that on my TDC in both attacks the gyro is set to 0 degrees. This means that the torpedoes will fire straight out of the bow and not turn, traveling along a straight line from my boat. I've got target speed set to 0, making any other solution input (range, AOB) superfluous. I've also locked that data in so that the TDC doesn't try to update any data (especially the gyro angle) as I move my scope.

It's possible to calculate the shoot bearing using the U-Boot's TDC. It's also possible to calculate it on paper yourself using trigonometry. I prefer to "delegate the calculations to my XO" and use Gutted's outstanding solution solver application (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=156698).

[reignofdeath]

Beautiful Laconic, that was the GIF I was looking for.

As far as your Gyro being 0, that does not mean that the torpedo will not turn, when your gyro shows 0, it means your scope is pointed at where it should be based on the solution you entered (Speed of target, AOB, Distance, etc) and when it crosses it, fire for the torpedo to hit the target.

[Laconic]

Beautiful Laconic, that was the GIF I was looking for.

As far as your Gyro being 0, that does not mean that the torpedo will not turn, when your gyro shows 0, it means your scope is pointed at where it should be based on the solution you entered (Speed of target, AOB, Distance, etc) and when it crosses it, fire for the torpedo to hit the target.

0 degree gyro does mean the torpedo won't turn; otherwise it would fire out a safe distance from the boat and then begin making its turn to the gyro angle that the TDC inputted to it. You just described the quick way to calculate a Fast-90 solution with the TDC by inputting the data as if the target were passing your bow and then rolling back the gyro to 0 degrees with your scope until you find the proper shoot bearing. I prefer to discover the shoot bearing and then manually lock my torpedoes to a 0 degree gyro so I don't have to worry about accidentally moving the scope and blowing up my solution.

[reignofdeath]

0 degree gyro does mean the torpedo won't turn; otherwise it would fire out a safe distance from the boat and then begin making its turn to the gyro angle that the TDC inputted to it. You just described the quick way to calculate a Fast-90 solution with the TDC by inputting the data as if the target were passing your bow and then rolling back the gyro to 0 degrees with your scope until you find the proper shoot bearing. I prefer to discover the shoot bearing and then manually lock my torpedoes to a 0 degree gyro so I don't have to worry about accidentally moving the scope and blowing up my solution.

Okay yeah thats true, when I hear 0 on the gyro, I think that the gyro is reading 0, aka you have your scope on the bearing it needs to be.

[Waervyn]

Range becomes irrelevant because, if your angle of attack is 90 degrees, then all targets in a particular line will pass your bow at the same time as long as they are in parallel formation to each other (as nearly all multiple-column convoys are). This means that if you fire your torpedoes on a solution to impact at 000 bearing from your boat they will all impact at the same time regardless of the range. The targets could be 10m or 10km away...it doesn't matter as long as their speed and course are the same, they are parallel to each other, and you are set up to attack them at a 90 degree angle. Here's a simple but very elegant animation detailing the tactic (credit to Rockin' Robbins).

The green line is the bearing the scope is pointed at (the shoot-solution for a 90 degree attack), and the blue line is the 000 course for the torpedoes. The submarine fires a torpedo as each red target crosses its wire; because of the changing perspective of the convoy, each target presents itself to that bearing at a different moment, making it possible to target them separately as they cross your bearing. The torpedoes should impact simultaneously regardless of the range due to the intercept angle of 90 degrees.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/Manual%20TDC%20Range/OKanemethodanimation.gif

Here's one video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP16g605MKw&list=UUHR1zAvifzMXj3H7dCMAlnw) that shows the technique; I'll upload another one shortly that shows it even better (in daylight and at greater range).

Perfect, that GIF answers my question perfectly! :)
Thanks a lot! I'll check the video's tonight as well!

Thanks again!