The White Queen

[Onkel Neal]

I'm on episode 5 of this Starz series. It's very well-made, and the acting is good. But I cannot keep up with who is who, which side they are on, who is the King/Queen du juor, and where the heck they are. Calais, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, France, Burgundy, Flanders--goodness, you would think there was some kind of medieval mass transit. Man, them English are a little crazy when it comes to getting someone on the throne and keeping them there. Right now there are at least 4 guys all trying to be king. Lancasters, Yorks, Tudors, wow.

I don't know how this ends up, I don't know English history that well. I don't want to hear any spoilers, but if you have seen this series (or read the books), chime in, I have some specific questions to ask.

Naturally, I may be the sole person on this forum watching or have watched this series, but who knows.

[Skybird]

:huh:

:timeout:

:shifty:

No chess in here, nothing to see, move on folks, move on...

:O:

[Aktungbby]

:03:I'm on episode 5 of this Starz series. It's very well-made, and the acting is good. But I cannot keep up with who is who, which side they are on, who is the King/Queen du juor, and where the heck they are. Calais, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, France, Burgundy, Flanders--goodness, you would think there was some kind of medieval mass transit. Man, them English are a little crazy when it comes to getting someone on the throne and keeping them there. Right now there are at least 4 guys all trying to be king. Lancasters, Yorks, Tudors, wow.

I don't know how this ends up, I don't know English history that well. I don't want to hear any spoilers, but if you have seen this series (or read the books), chime in, I have some specific questions to ask.

Naturally, I may be the sole person on this forum watching or have watched this series, but who knows.

You are not alone! Ask away! PS: the story really ends in 2013 at Leicester when they found Richard III-a little hunchbacked & worse for wear...some times it's NOT good to be a (de-feeted?) king! 'A horse A horse' ...and always wear your helmet!:oops: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130204153037-richard-iii-renauns-3-horizontal-gallery.jpg

[Oberon]

I've seen bits of it, good series from what I can tell.
In regards to dramatis personae, it boils down to the two rival houses of Plantagenet, the House of York and the House of Lancaster and their fights for power which became known as the Wars of the Roses (named after their respective symbols, the White Rose of York and the Red Rose of Lancaster).

[Betonov]

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsL/25171-7141.gif

"Off with his head, off with his head!" Heads lying about everywhere. One could hardly take a step without tripping over a fallen crown. We're much more civilized now, I assure you.''

[Aktungbby]

Ah the war of the roses, the white rose crops up throughout British history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YIl9dPCxXQ

VERY FUNNY! but actually not a bad idea at Isandlwana: "March slowly, attack at dawn and eat up the red soldiers." The Zulus had been commanded to ignore the civilians in black coats and this meant that some officers, (The only five who survived) whose patrol dress was dark blue and black at the time, were spared and escaped.

[Eichhörnchen]

the story really ends in 2013 at Leicester when they found Richard III-a little hunchbacked & worse for wear...

The joke going around at the time was that the controversial company contracted by the government and charged with assessing disability benefit claimants, had found Richard III "fit for work"...

[Rhodes]

and always wear your helmet!:oops:

That's a post-mortem bone destruction you nincapum!

[Aktungbby]

That's a post-mortem bone destruction you nincapum!
WHA!.....NAME CALLING at :subsim:! :DBACK to your PORT! Good eye on the one severe cut over the left frontal bone though. "Three of the king’s injuries - two to the skull and one to the pelvis - had the potential to cause death quickly, according to the university’s forensic imaging team. They used whole body CT scans and micro-CT imaging of injured bones to analyse trauma to the 500-year-old skeleton carefully and to determine which of the King’s wounds might have proved fatal. They also analysed tool marks on bone to identify the medieval weapons potentially responsible for his injuries.
The results, published today in The Lancet, show that Richard’s skeleton sustained 11 wounds at or near the time of his death: nine of them to the skull, clearly inflicted in battle and suggesting he had removed or lost his helmet, and two to the postcranial skeleton.":oops: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/16/richard-iii-died-battle-losing-helmet-new-research (http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/16/richard-iii-died-battle-losing-helmet-new-research) PS:I did take a course or two, 1 year, in forensics! :sunny: Bottom Line: he's missing some big parts to the cranium- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8239XBKEv8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8239XBKEv8) :hmph: And have a glass of Malmsey...on me!:03:

[Oberon]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/b0/b0ccf5dcf41e3a3f4b63e290bdb0dc465715aa6bbc8154f4a3 99d3079654f08f.jpg

:haha: :03:

[Rhodes]

:haha::woot:

I was more on the joking side do to the picture Akty posted, since the skull injury showed there, in the picture, one can see some white on the borders, so indication of a post-mortem.
I went to see all the images of the skull around the web to see if I was right, and the large majority shows the Occipital injuries in detail. In the serious side, only seeing and analysing the skull in person I can say this or that with some degree of certainty, something I would love to!
In paleopathology, trauma injuries are my favourite, plus in medieval populations.

So, Richard the Third also rise up as a cyberman did not he?:O:

[Jimbuna]

I'm on episode 5 of this Starz series. It's very well-made, and the acting is good. But I cannot keep up with who is who, which side they are on, who is the King/Queen du juor, and where the heck they are. Calais, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, France, Burgundy, Flanders--goodness, you would think there was some kind of medieval mass transit. Man, them English are a little crazy when it comes to getting someone on the throne and keeping them there. Right now there are at least 4 guys all trying to be king. Lancasters, Yorks, Tudors, wow.

I don't know how this ends up, I don't know English history that well. I don't want to hear any spoilers, but if you have seen this series (or read the books), chime in, I have some specific questions to ask.

Naturally, I may be the sole person on this forum watching or have watched this series, but who knows.

No spoilers Neal but a link to the BBC site and explanations regarding characters etc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p018sxqp

[frau kaleun]

Lol Neal if you are going to try to keep track of who was who in the noble/royal families and what they were doing and why during that period of English history, you need a LOT of cheat sheets. Used to be a bit of an obsession of mine and I had multiple family trees drawn up and tucked into all my books, it was the only way to stay sane.

At some point they should have passed a law about not using the same damn name more than once during, say, a three-generation period in any one family.

Aaaaaand every time someone says "Plantagenet" I want to watch The Lion in Winter again, as if anyone needs an excuse to do that. :O:

[Aktungbby]

In paleopathology, trauma injuries are my favourite, plus in medieval populations. INDEED the KISS principle of paleopathology is sometimes best; you're in Gothic full plate with a Sallet http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Sallet_helmet%2C_Southern_Germany%2C_1480-1490_-_Higgins_Armory_Museum_-_DSC05461.JPG/200px-Sallet_helmet%2C_Southern_Germany%2C_1480-1490_-_Higgins_Armory_Museum_-_DSC05461.JPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sallet_helmet,_Southern_Germany,_1480-1490_-_Higgins_Armory_Museum_-_DSC05461.JPG) helmet,(style BBY) generally over a mail coif or arming hood and your horse is down so you, as king, are no longer readily visible to your 'very mercenary' prepaid troops (oops the boss just croaked-we're done-style of combat) who will quickly lose heart and, as with William I at Hastings showing himself still in the fray, you remove said helmet....and most of the pole-arms are held head-high phalanx-style....and now everyone knows where you are....afoot, hunchbacked, unloved and sloooow movin'.... :dead:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Battle_of_Tewkesbury_reenactment_-_fighting_while_arrows_fly.jpg/640px-Battle_of_Tewkesbury_reenactment_-_fighting_while_arrows_fly.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

Lol Neal if you are going to try to keep track of who was who in the noble/royal families and what they were doing and why during that period of English history, you need a LOT of cheat sheets. Used to be a bit of an obsession of mine and I had multiple family trees drawn up and tucked into all my books, it was the only way to stay sane.

At some point they should have passed a law about not using the same damn name more than once during, say, a three-generation period in any one family.

Aaaaaand every time someone says "Plantagenet" I want to watch The Lion in Winter again, as if anyone needs an excuse to do that. :O:

Yeah, it's staggering the number of times the names Edward and Henry get used over and over.

I just started the Red Queen, seems to be the 2nd book in Philippa Gregory's series. The first I just finished, The Lady of the Rivers, sets up the story, and I can tell now, by starting the Red Queen, a lot more about the TV series The White Queen, as in who's who, etc. Seems the TV series skips all the stuff from the first two books and jumps right in, no explanations. Well, now I know who the wretchedly amitious and pious woman in the TV series is, she's Margaret Beaufort, and she's the protagonist in the Red Queen (book 2) ((did I mention there are several Margarets to keep track of, also?)). So, ah ha, I see, and now it's making more sense. Plus the books do an outstanding job of casually filling in the family histories.

No spoilers Neal but a link to the BBC site and explanations regarding characters etc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p018sxqp

Thanks, Jim, that seems to have a list of characters and their profile (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/3qGgzRF2l9Tnv4yTtRylxdb/characters)s, that will help. :salute:

I also need to read up on the Tower of London, I thought that was a prison, but it seems sometimes it also serves as a sanctuary/castle/keep?

One thing is for sure, the English are magnificent, their civilization, even in these early days of confusion and treachery, clearly sets the stage for modern civilization. God save the King! Whoever that happens to be at the moment.

[Oberon]

Just remember, Dickon was innocent! Don't believe the Tudor propaganda! :yep:

Furthermore, I think it's stupid that he will be buried in Leicester, not York. :nope:

[frau kaleun]

Yeah, it's staggering the number of times the names Edward and Henry get used over and over.

I just started the Red Queen, seems to be the 2nd book in Philippa Gregory's series. The first I just finished, The Lady of the Rivers, sets up the story, and I can tell now, by starting the Red Queen, a lot more about the TV series The White Queen, as in who's who, etc. Seems the TV series skips all the stuff from the first two books and jumps right in, no explanations. Well, now I know who the wretchedly amitious and pious woman in the TV series is, she's Margaret Beaufort, and she's the protagonist in the Red Queen (book 2) ((did I mention there are several Margarets to keep track of, also?)). So, ah ha, I see, and now it's making more sense. Plus the books do an outstanding job of casually filling in the family histories.

Margaret, Anne, Henry, Richard, Edward... someone get these people a better baby naming book! :O: It gets even more confusing by the tendency sometimes to refer to a man by his title - Clarence, Warwick, Gloucester, etc., which then has to be mentally reconciled with whichever Tom, Dick or Harry (or rather George, Richard or Henry) who's holding it at the moment.

This site looks to have a pretty decent collections of royal family trees for Britain, going all the way from Alfred the Great to the current generation, plus separate ones for the Plantagenets and Tudors which would likely encompass the period you're dealing with.

http://www.britroyals.com/royals.htm

[Sailor Steve]

I first became interested in the era when I saw Six Wives of Henry VIII back in 1971. Since then I've read a few books, and own a copy of Mike Ashley's British Kings and Queens.
http://www.amazon.com/British-kings-queens-biographical-encyclopedia/dp/0760720347/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=0G68GNK3KMG1ZEDVXG7T

Also I have a copy of the prequel to Six Wives, called The Shadow of the Tower, which is a series about Henry VII. It suffers from being made in the period when the BBC had no money at all, but it's still a great show. One of the main characters is Henry's mother, Margaret Beaufort. Now here she is as one of the players in the Wars of the Roses. I think I'll need to see this series as well.

[Aktungbby]

Just finished off The Winter King- Henry VII on kindle. This details the victory of Henry, Earl of Oxford who defeated Richard III at Bosworth and fathers Henry VIII by his marriage to ...Anne, the White Queen's daughter, in effect a union of York and Lancaster sufficient to end the War of the Roses.

[Oberon]

Just finished off The Winter King- Henry VII on kindle. This details the victory of Henry, Earl of Oxford who defeated Richard III at Bosworth and fathers Henry VIII by his marriage to ...Anne, the White Queen's daughter, in effect a union of York and Lancaster sufficient to end the War of the Roses.

Oi, spoilers. :O:

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, I knew someone would do that:nope:

[Jimbuna]

God save the King! Whoever that happens to be at the moment.

TREASON!!....Our current monarch is Queen Elizabeth II. Her father George IV ruled until 1952 and was succeeded by Elizabeth :know:

Yeah, I knew someone would do that:nope:

Aye, we could have both made a tidy sum if we were betting folk.

[Aktungbby]

Just remember, Dickon was innocent! Don't believe the Tudor propaganda! :yep:

Furthermore, I think it's stupid that he will be buried in Leicester, not York. :nope:

Oi, spoilers. :O:

Yeah, I knew someone would do that:nope:

TREASON!!....Our current monarch is Queen Elizabeth II. Her father George IV ruled until 1952 and was succeeded by Elizabeth :know:
Aye, we could have both made a tidy sum if we were betting folk.

INNOCENT!:hmph: well mostly:doh: Nothing in the show is compromised by my mention from the book which is after that period actually-I just re-watched the last episode to be sure- and my mention of Bosworth and the photo of the late Richard III I used in this thread, # 3, have been utilized in the This Date in History thread at least twice beforehand. No all-knowing Lord of his own Forum:salute: can have failed to be apprised by my previous 'pearls o'! wisdom cast before Swell :subsim: Fellas'':yeah: As to my chief detractors: the Oi man of Wilshire and the venerable Sire of Northumbria :O: a glass of Malmsey and a swift Misericorde to you both for your perfidious calumny; inasmuch as you sort of give it away as well. Ol' Dickon might have got a bad propaganda rap... FYI: Queen Elizabeth II is also the present Duke of Lancaster:know: $omeone alway$ walks off with the loot-an obvious 'happy ending'?!! I therefore CRY Foul Craven! :haha: Shades of 'the Rat, the Cat...now where's Lovell the dog"... oh that could be me!:doh:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Lovell,_1st_Viscount_Lovell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Lovell,_1st_Viscount_Lovell) http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608044417450247766&w=209&h=188&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7 Lawrence Olivier as Richard III-1955 It was directed and produced by Sir 'Larry' who also played the villainous Oscar nominated lead rôle to perfection IMHO, inspired Salvador Dali's portrait of Sir Lawrence Olivier as Richard IIIhttp://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608042987221486969&pid=1.7 @ Neal: as to the White Queen: this'll clear it all up!:nope: just her kids alone(12)! But hey there was no TV to watch in days o' yore and gore...In the boudoir or field::rotfl2: She is the ancestor of every English monarch sinceHenry VIII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_VIII) and every Scottish monarch since James V of Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_V_of_Scotland). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Woodville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Woodville) Thomas Grey, Marquess of Dorset (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Grey,_1st_Marquess_of_Dorset)
Richard Grey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Grey)
Elizabeth, Queen of England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_of_York)
Mary of York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_of_York)
Cecily, Viscountess Welles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecily_of_York)
Edward V, King of England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_V_of_England)
Margaret of York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_of_York_(1472))
Richard, Duke of York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_of_Shrewsbury,_1st_Duke_of_York)
Anne, Lady Howard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_of_York,_Lady_Howard)
George, Duke of Bedford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Plantagenet,_Duke_of_Bedford)
Catherine, Countess of Devon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_York)
Bridget of York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridget_of_York):k_confused:

[Oberon]

You're not getting out of it that easily mister...now tell me, are you a fan of Malmsey wine? :hmmm: :O:

[Aktungbby]

You're not getting out of it that easily mister...now tell me, are you a fan of Malmsey wine? :hmmm: :O:
Only when I'm drinkn' it!:up: Not like poor submerged George, Duke Clarence whose doom I mention'd to Betanov prior to his English journey; since Malmsey originated in Slovenia or Hungary but the varietal also comes from Spain and Portugal at the present as a 'fortified Wine. That a Butt of it would have been on hand attests to the tribulation of the times as the Tower was well stocked for siege..and drinking from the sewage filled Thames was unwise. As a transplanted Minnesotan to the wine capitol of the universe...See Bottleshock-the movie: Napa (take that ya Froggies) Man doth not live by Hamm's Alone:woot: Naturally, were I to acquire a used French oak Butt; and upon drinking it dry, would reshape it somewhat: USS Turtle> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Turtle_model_at_the_Royal_navy_submarine_museum.jp g/220px-Turtle_model_at_the_Royal_navy_submarine_museum.jp g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Turtle_model_at_the_Royal_navy_submarine_muse um.jpg)and sink canoes in the Napa River! :O: :sunny: Just to stay on a submersible theme!:yep: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Blandy%27s_Malmsey_Madeira.jpg http://www.luminarium.org/encyclopedia/clarencemurderers.gif (http://www.luminarium.org/encyclopedia/clarencemurderers.jpg)drowned in the Butt of malmsey

[Onkel Neal]

Well, dang. Edwards has done gone and died and all hell's breaking loose.

The series has taken a real dive in quality from episode 6 on. No nuance, the characters are all the same (plotting, plotting, PLOTTING!) and even Richard, the noble one, is a jerk now. BBC really botched this.

[Aktungbby]

Good King Richard III, found dumped in a pit, will be buried with all honors due an annointed King of England this 3/26 in the Cathedral at Leicester. The enthusiasm and turn-out is said to be remarkable...Merry old England! http://static2.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2158669.1427046549!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/467241738.jpgI've been following this story for 50 years:http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/thousands-honor-king-richard-iii-funeral-procession-article-1.2158509 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/thousands-honor-king-richard-iii-funeral-procession-article-1.2158509) RIP KING!:salute:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a8/b8/14/a8b814f6347e29ebbfa9463bfae5aa99.jpg