The benefits of Islam - Good ole US Education

[Feuer Frei!]

There are?

The points don't convince me one iota.

And school banishment for Father.

SOURCE (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/31/marine-dad-upset-with-assignment-on-islam-banned-from-daughters-high-school/)


And an alternative view:

SOURCE2 (http://www.paratusfamiliablog.com/2014/10/the-benefits-of-islam.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ParatusFamiliaBlog+%28Paratus +Familia+Blog%29)


"How did Muslim conquerors treat those they conquered?" A homework assignment obtained by MyFoxDC.com showed the correct answer was, “With tolerance, kindness and respect."

:yeah:

[Admiral Halsey]

"How did Muslim conquerors treat those they conquered?" A homework assignment obtained by MyFoxDC.com showed the correct answer was, “With tolerance, kindness and respect."

To be fair Saladin apparently did actually treat PoW's at least with respect. IIRC the crusaders actually respected the guy which is really saying something.

[Tchocky]

This thread promises not to disappoint.

*EJECT*

[Feuer Frei!]

This thread promises not to disappoint.

*EJECT*

Well, i assume there are some reasonable folks on this forum, no?

The trolls can be dealt with.

[Cybermat47]

Islamic nations in the Middle Ages were very honourable. Saladin sent Richard the Lionheart some medicine when Richard fell ill, and the Ottoman Empire didn't force Christian and Jewish subjects to convert.

But that was the Middle Ages. Now Islamic nations (or rather their governments) are either...

a) Similar to most Western Nations

b) a bit backwards

or c) absolutely crazy.

[Betonov]

"How did Muslim conquerors treat those they conquered?" A homework assignment obtained by MyFoxDC.com showed the correct answer was, “With tolerance, kindness and respect."



They taxed them

[Catfish]

I always wonder how people can listen to Fox News, and then criticize russian propaganda media.

[Skybird]

Sigh. The servility of modern western mind. Or is it cowardice? Well, both terms are not too far apart anyway. That school should see some change in teaching personnel.

To be fair Saladin apparently did actually treat PoW's at least with respect. IIRC the crusaders actually respected the guy which is really saying something.
No, that is a myth if you generalise it that way. Before Richard landed in the unholy land, and Saladin still was commander in service of some king on today'S Syrian territory, he defeated a French army and had the noble elite of it, princes and noblemen, executed along with all other prisoners without any logicstical or military need, to send the Europeans a message of the kind IS tries today. During and after the struggle for Jerusalem, he sometimes let prisoners live and traded them for gold from Europe, like it was common habit amongst the feudal leaders in East and West alike in those times, but then he also sometimes executed prisoners, especially if they belonged to the military Christian elite. The Templars for example were such an elite, and also he knew that because they effectively were warrior monks, their motivation was such that not only they would not be converted, but also would continue to fight once they got released from prison. So these also were executed. Saladdin reigned with iron fist and commanded the execution of many reformists and critical Muslim minds, some of the most promising alternative thinkers in the Islamic world of that time were brought to death by his will. The shrine they build for him holds a scripture that only rarely gets translated when they make another TV film about it: "He cleaned the earth of the dirt of the infidels". Ridley Scott painted a hopelessly distorted picture of him, though the usual fascinating one that the world now is used to believe in .

Saladdin is one of the most transfigured figures in history that I know of. But the substance does not justify the holy shine, even if many famous names fell for it, like Voltaire and Goethe. Voltaire at least in the end corrected his mistake. Goethe died ignorant on Islam.

However, the whole modern reinterpretation of the crusade wars is a hopeless case. Tells more about modern western mind and Islamic self-understanding, than history.

Regarding the respect you mentioned, the rule of that time was simply this: "king does not kill king".

[Feuer Frei!]

I always wonder how people can listen to Fox News, and then criticize russian propaganda media.

Who's that.
What propaganda.

[mapuc]

I have only this to say:

If you hate Islam, you believe every negative publicity about Islam and the Muslims and you dismiss every positive Mentions about this religion

Markus

[Betonov]

I have only this to say:

If you hate Islam, you believe every negative publicity about Islam and the Muslims and you dismiss every positive Mentions about this religion

Markus

Read an article today about some German tourists that risked it and went on a vacation in Iran.
They were surprised how Iran is nothing like the media tries to sell us. Women wore a scarf and men wore long trousers, they had a guide (not the North Korean kind) that translated for them and gave them a few no-go areas like army bases and certain facilities. Apart from that no one gave them a hard time for being European or white, people were hospitable and polite, never felt threatened and ancient Persian sights were well kept and accesable.

Media is selling us manure to make money, politicians are feeding us manure to get votes and chicken little is crying that the sky is falling. Same idiotism, different day.


The original article was on my phone newsfeed and can't find it, here's the next best thing

http://mic.com/articles/78597/why-every-american-should-take-their-next-vacation-in-iran

[Catfish]

The anchorman of the german main TV news is a member of the "Transatlantikbruecke".

What do you expect, from the media :03:
It is all propaganda.

[Feuer Frei!]

To be fair Saladin apparently did actually treat PoW's at least with respect. IIRC the crusaders actually respected the guy which is really saying something.

They taxed them

I have only this to say:

If you hate Islam, you believe every negative publicity about Islam and the Muslims and you dismiss every positive Mentions about this religion

Markus

Well Gentlemen,

There is of course the other side of the coin, teachings of Islam in US Schools is all rosy and dandy, a religion of peace, prosperity and love thy neighbour is taught in over 100 schools in US.

We now look towards that other side of the coin and reveal what isn't taught: 1,400 year history of Jihadi wars, land appropriations, cultural genocide and enslavement.
I'm sure there is more.

And also on that other side of the coin is the Shahada and the Five Pillars of islam.
Another subject matter being taught with Social Studies and World History in those schools.
We all know what Shahada and the five pillars of islam are don't we?

http://www.noisyroom.net/blog/homework1.jpg


http://www.noisyroom.net/blog/homework2.jpg

http://www.noisyroom.net/blog/homework3.jpg


Enjoy :haha:

Islam being taught is one thing.
Teaching with sugar-coating and ignoring (some) facts is another.

[Skybird]

If what you show on those photos represents the common status of school education about Islam, the tone in this forum and the general public cluelessness about Islam is no surprise then. Some of the - suggestive - questions border brainwashing.

As I use to say: we live in the age of collective infantilization and general dilettantism.

Its not the fault of the young, they just got born into this freak show without getting asked. Us older ones, letting things slide, staying indifferent on too many things and for too long, and raping the precious cultural heritage our forefathers for so long time have fought and suffered for, only for us now carelessly trading it away for more fun, show FX and multi-kulti-selfdeception - its our fault.

We will only get what we deserve. But we pull down those coming after us along with us. And that is unforgivable - and one of the reasons why I am so grim and unforgiving about certain kind of people.

LINK: Reading tip (German) (http://www.amazon.de/Die-Stunde-Dilettanten-verschaukeln-lassen/dp/3552055541/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415029551&sr=8-2&keywords=Rietzschel)

[Oberon]

Well, i assume there are some reasonable folks on this forum, no?

The trolls can be dealt with.

:har::har::har::har:

That's a good one! :up:

[Betonov]

We now look towards that other side of the coin and reveal what isn't taught: 1,400 year history of Jihadi wars, land appropriations, cultural genocide and enslavement.
I'm sure there is more.



European colonization and scramble for Africa, Ghengis Khan, Trail of tears and the US westward expansion, the thirty years war in Europe, all the invasions of Scotland, Shaka Zulu forcefully uniting the Zulu tribes, Conquistadors, Atlantic slave trade, Austrian annexation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Chinese civil war, Japan in WWII, Napoleonic wars, Hindu rebellion in British India...

1,400 year history of wars, land appropriations, cultural genocide and enslavement.

[NeonSamurai]

1,400 year history of Jihadi wars, land appropriations, cultural genocide and enslavement.
I'm sure there is more.

Wait are we talking about the Middle East, Europe, or America? I'm confused :06:

Last I checked that statement would work for all three (including Jihadi wars if you use what the it means).

[Catfish]

"260 million cluster bombs" or "two million tons of ordnance"
Was there ever a war declared ?

Speaking of Laos:
http://legaciesofwar.org/about-laos/secret-war-laos/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-mike-honda/vietnam-war-continues-in_b_558370.html

You say IS would also do it if they had the bombs ? Be sure ..
But then they do not exactly claim to be a free peaceful democracy.

[Armistead]

There are?


"How did Muslim conquerors treat those they conquered?" A homework assignment obtained by MyFoxDC.com showed the correct answer was, “With tolerance, kindness and respect."

:yeah:

Yea...the point being after how they brutally conquered...and of course even then it's very subjective to what period and then what rules were applied to those that didn't follow Islam...

Course, Christianity was much the same, but thankfully has grown out of the dark ages.

[Skybird]

European colonization and scramble for Africa, Ghengis Khan, Trail of tears and the US westward expansion, the thirty years war in Europe, all the invasions of Scotland, Shaka Zulu forcefully uniting the Zulu tribes, Conquistadors, Atlantic slave trade, Austrian annexation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Chinese civil war, Japan in WWII, Napoleonic wars, Hindu rebellion in British India...

1,400 year history of wars, land appropriations, cultural genocide and enslavement.

We have been at inquisition and slave trade and witch hunting. We left it behind. Parts of the Muslim world still practice it until today.

Our forefathers committed these crimes in violation of the teachings of Jesus, and humanistic ideals. Islam does its barbary not in violation of Muhammad's will, but by order of Muhammad. Heck, we had the unfolding of a humanistic tradition, Islam has no pendant to that.

Your self-victimization of our culture simply does not work the way you intend to achieve. But endlessly relativising things until no standards and scales exist anymore in the sign of modenr times, it seems.

BTW, the French did not go to the Northafrican slave rtzaders and orderd shiploads of slaves - the slave barons offered the idea to the French as a business model, since they had run it since always. Genghis Khan and Shaka Zulu are nothing to hold the Europeans responsible for. Pol Pot and China we also refuse to accept responsibility for, as a Western civilization. Hitler and Stalin did not act on behalf of Jesus' teachings, but in violation of it.

The monumental difference in what Jesus wanted people to do, and what Muhammad wanted people to do, cannot be repeated often enough, and cannot be overestimated at all. It makes all the difference between the Koran and Sunna, and the Glad Tidings. They do not compare. And that is why the Western world - influenced tremendously by Christian tradition -, and the Islamic world, do not compare as well. We have moved on a bit. They got stuck some thousand years ago.

That has consequences: thats why they buy technology, know-how, medicine and clever scientific gadgets from us and Asia, and not the other way around. :shucks: And thats why us, Jews and Asians get the Nobel prizes, but not them.

[Stealhead]

"260 million cluster bombs" or "two million tons of ordnance"
Was there ever a war declared ?

Speaking of Laos:
http://legaciesofwar.org/about-laos/secret-war-laos/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-mike-honda/vietnam-war-continues-in_b_558370.html

You say IS would also do it if they had the bombs ? Be sure ..
But then they do not exactly claim to be a free peaceful democracy.

To be fair there is plenty of Soviet/Chicom unexploded ordnance in Laos. It may not have been a declared war but there where pro western bloc and pro eastern bloc Laoitan parties fighting each other. Oh let me guess a Chinese B40 rocket grows into lotus if it is a dud.

Got to love onesided stories.

[Oberon]

Chinese B40 rocket grows into lotus if it is a dud.

Got to love onesided stories.

I think it grows into political power...

Or at least that's what Mao said... :hmmm: :03:

[Betonov]

That has consequences: thats why they buy technology, know-how, medicine and clever scientific gadgets from us and Asia, and not the other way around. :shucks: And thats why us, Jews and Asians get the Nobel prizes, but not them.

What are you, googleitupophobe ????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_Nobel_laureates


And what do you mean ''And thats why us...'', you're so far away from a Nobel prize like I am from winning every gold medal in the next olympics.
WE or US don't receive Nobel prizes,HE or SHE, individual scientists, doctors, writers etc. and their respective teams receive Nobel prizes.
So don't count that your paranoid, uneducated, untraveled, unresponsive, inflexible and incapable of a decent pun (reasonophobe) mind has anything remotely to do with Nobel prizes.

Individuals win medals, earn prizes, cut heads and blow themselves up.

Unless some of you think it's still faschism or communism out there, they tended to group individuals into one entities.

[Catfish]

Where on earth have you been?
Read the bloody news, all that crap still goes on in the "christian" west:doh:

No, we have completely changed !

See, we have "recycling parks" for scrapyards, and a "defence minister" instead of a war minister, workers are not fired but "set free", soldiers dieing are "casualties", maimed and PTSD-suffering are "heroic" "veterans" and "patriots", dead civilians are "collateral damage" etc.
All is so neat and sweet and humane, Orwell's newspeak is everywhere.

And now listen to Fox Newspeak (or insert any media), and obey ! :stare:

[Rockstar]

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/JscDS.jpg

[Dread Knot]

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/JscDS.jpg

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

Hell, he's got my vote. All politicians are Decepticons when you think about it.

[MH]

No, we have completely changed !

See, we have "recycling parks" for scrapyards, and a "defence minister" instead of a war minister, workers are not fired but "set free", soldiers dieing are "casualties", maimed and PTSD-suffering are "heroic" "veterans" and "patriots", dead civilians are "collateral damage" etc.
All is so neat and sweet and humane, Orwell's newspeak is everywhere.

And now listen to Fox Newspeak (or insert any media), and obey ! :stare:

At least you can complain or conspire just about anything without getting beheaded.
You also live in a country that requires special skills to totally screw up your life or get abused by the government.

What are you, googleitupophobe ????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...obel_laureates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_Nobel_laureates)


And what do you mean ''And thats why us...'', you're so far away from a Nobel prize like I am from winning every gold medal in the next olympics.
WE or US don't receive Nobel prizes,HE or SHE, individual scientists, doctors, writers etc. and their respective teams receive Nobel prizes.
So don't count that your paranoid, uneducated, untraveled, unresponsive, inflexible and incapable of a decent pun (reasonophobe) mind has anything remotely to do with Nobel prizes.

Individuals win medals, earn prizes, cut heads and blow themselves up.

Unless some of you think it's still faschism or communism out there, they tended to group individuals into one entities. Really?
I can somewhat understand your urge to oppose Skybird on anything he writes.
Sometimes im not sure if he is serious or simply fooling around with people on this forum yet you response is totally incorrect or even pathetic wishfool thinking.
The social / cultural mindset has very great effect on scientific achievements.
People need to be given the right environment to reach their potential on certain subjects.
This is a issue very much dealt with in the west on every day basis.
Rethink the page you have posted from the wiki im not sure it is good example.

[Catfish]

Did you even read Orwell's 1984 ?


OT the word googleitupophobe is hilarious :haha:

[MH]

Did you even read Orwell's 1984 ?




No I skipped it for certain reason.:haha:
Actually I get uneasy felling in my stomach when people refer to 1984.
Not that referring to this book is unjustified...it seemly depends on who does it and in what context.
There tons of books that address those issues in million different ways.


.....but I have seen the movie.:smug:

And now listen to Fox Newspeak (or insert any media), and obey ! :stare:

....or not.

Maybe you watch too much fox news?

Not that fox news may not be correct on some issues....they simply don't know why.:haha:

[Catfish]

..
Maybe you watch too much fox news?

No, but the problem is that after 70 years of reeducation and NATO membership it seems, our media are not far away from Fox quality, and bias. Anchormen and women of the national puvlic TV are members of the Transatlantikbruecke .. you will never hear anything good about Russsia, or bad about America.

It is somehow like you make a nuclear power company the controller of its sites, and then expect reports that have anything to do with reality :03:

Not that fox news may not be correct on some issues....they simply don't know why.:haha:

That is definitely a good one :haha:

[Betonov]

Really?
I can somewhat understand your urge to oppose Skybird on anything he writes.
.
.
.
Rethink the page you have posted from the wiki im not sure it is good example.

It's my third time in 5 years I opposed him, I'm quite capable of holding back my urges, thank you.

I'm rethinking. Still seeing Muslim Nobel prize recipients.
Maybe.... nope, still seeing Muslim Nobel prize recipients.
perhaps... nah, forget it. Can't shake the feeling that there are Muslim Nobel prize recipients on that list.

[CCIP]

Am I the only one who thinks that threads like these (regardless of original intentions) are driving away people/interest from GT? I don't like xenophobic rants when they're coming from Islamist extremists, but I like xenophobic rants even less when they're tolerated in a place that's supposed to be all about a hobby I enjoy :nope:

[Oberon]

Am I the only one who thinks that threads like these (regardless of original intentions) are driving away people/interest from GT? I don't like xenophobic rants when they're coming from Islamist extremists, but I like xenophobic rants even less when they're tolerated in a place that's supposed to be all about a hobby I enjoy :nope:

Nope, you're not.
I believe we lost Tarjak for this reason, and God alone knows how many others. Mookie probably, Hottentot I think, mostly people who were liberal in nature who just couldn't take this sort of thing any more.
Can't say I blame them.

[Schroeder]

Nope, you're not.
I believe we lost Tarjak for this reason, and God alone knows how many others. Mookie probably, Hottentot I think, mostly people who were liberal in nature who just couldn't take this sort of thing any more.
Can't say I blame them.
I think you can add Stealth Hunter to the list as well...:88)

[MH]

Nope, you're not.
I believe we lost Tarjak for this reason, and God alone knows how many others. Mookie probably, Hottentot I think, mostly people who were liberal in nature who just couldn't take this sort of thing any more.
Can't say I blame them.


It is ridiculous in particular if they come here because of the hobby.
It seems fox channel has won here?:haha:

[Skybird]

It's my third time in 5 years I opposed him, I'm quite capable of holding back my urges, thank you.

I'm rethinking. Still seeing Muslim Nobel prize recipients.
Maybe.... nope, still seeing Muslim Nobel prize recipients.
perhaps... nah, forget it. Can't shake the feeling that there are Muslim Nobel prize recipients on that list.
You really try hard, eh?

Let me "lecture" you a bit, then. There are two (2, that is one more than I knew) scientific Nobel prizes won by scientists of Muslim faith, Ahmed Zewail in chemistry, and Abdul Salam physics, years were 1979 and 1999. They usually list two more names as well, chemistry and medicine, but these two people were of Arab nationality but also of Christian faith, from 1960 and 1990: Elias James Corey, and Peter Brian Medawar.

Peace Nobel Prizes for "Peace" I do not count, they have nothing to do with education standards and cultural standards of school systems, there were 5 for Muslim people, one of whom was a murderer and terrorists, so much for the credibility of Peace Nobel Prizes. Two more Nobels were given for literature, two one guy whose name tells me nothing, and the other was Turkey-critical and quite atypical Muslim Orhan Pamuk, who not only is persecuated by the Turkish state for nationalistric reaosns, but also lives under threats by Muslims because he is secular and thus an apostate from Quran's POV.

And that's it. With 1.7 billion Muslims on the globe. Where are your menaingful numbers of typical Quran Muslims who got awarded academical Nobel Prizes? One name in chemistry, one name in physica - is that really all you have to show up with? Is that really all? - Is that what you want people to impress with in defence of your "argument"? There are 46 countries that would be seen as Islamic nations if counting them Islamic when over 50% of their population is declared to be "Muslim".

There are 75 times more declared Muslims than Jews in the world. Yet Jews nevertheless earned around 140 Nobel prizes in medicine, chemistry and physics alone. Not counting, economics, literature, which would add another 21 or so.

I leave it to yourself to count out the numbers if you compare those impressing numbers of Muslim hard science Nobel awards regarding not only Jewish but all non-Muslim mankind's awards.

Economics I also ignored. To me, economics, like laws, is no science, but more a fictional thing, like literature. No Muslim got one for economics, however, so you have no point to score there. One could however count Yunus in 2006 with his micro credit banking model a candidate for the economics award (he got it as a Peace Nobel). However, his idea meanwhile has proven to be counterproiduzctive and has exploded many debtors and crditors right into their faces. His ideas have bad reputation by now.

A closer look at the Peace Nobel Prizes (no prize that would illustrate the intellectual and educational superiority of a culture and society, however, which was at the basis of my argument):

1978 - Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yasser Arafat
2003 - Shirin Ebadi
2005 - Mohamed ElBaradei
2006 - Muhammad Yunus

Sadat: okay, one can count that one.
Arafat: a murderer and terrorist
Ebadi: a human rights activist and Iranian judge, living in exile in GBR. Obviously not the quran-obedient Muslims that defines Islam, but kind of an apostate already.
Baradei: the liar and manipulator and fraudster at the helm of the UN nuclear watchdog, responsible for delaying alarms over the iranian weapon program.
Yunus: I mentioned him, chosen for the wrong category, and his models having lost reputation by now. A bad awakening.


BTW, the Peace Nobel Prize is for achievements regarding the accomplished demilitarization of nations and reduction of armed forces. That is the criterion as defioned by the will of Alfred Nobel. Only Sadat gets close to that qualification. He also was disobeying fundamental Koranic demands. Thats why Muslims assassinated him. In the end it was for treason - and apostacy.

And one thing you totally overlook, Betonov, although i haver explained it so often. You deal "Muslims" as if thy were an ethnicity, a race. They are not. I have said that so many times now. You are Muslim when you follow the demands that are set up by the Quran. If you disobey that demands, you are no Muslim. Those two scientists who got the Nobel for chjemiostry and physics - find out yourself whether they were devout Muslims, or just were raised from Muslim families. I honestly don'T know, and considering the numerical ratios I illustrated, I honestly don'T care, because it does not mean anything for the great image. However, if they were practicising inflamatory speech and hate speech and were known for the intolerant racism, I doubt that Oslo would have accepted to just ignore that or that they would have been accepted to work at the univsersities of Berkley, Caltech, Princeton, Cambridge, and the Imperial College Londown - because these were the stations those two men lived through when they earned their academical merits - not some random place in the Muslims world.

Just follow the light, see where intellectual creativity and activity shines brightest, and creates the most influential institutions. You will find almpost all of them inb the Werst, and in Asia. Not in Arabia or other Muslim places. That is not by chance. There are places were hard scientific studies are punsihed with death in the Muslim sphere. A tradition that was started by ol Muhammad himself, you know. Only academical activities that in no way can examine or question Islam'S claims are allowed to be practiced, since centuries, since Muhammad. Knowledge and education is an enemy to Islam's claim for power. It always is when religion claims power. And the Quran is seen as the penultimate truth and divine authority that decides what science can prove to be true, or not. Tell me: a science that allows superstition to rule whether a scientific find is seen as valid or not - what value can lie in such a "science"? And what do you think makes the universities in the Muslim world so unattractive for the intellectual heavyweights of the world?Why is the band playing in the West, and Asia - not in the Arab sphere?

Think about it.

[Betonov]

way around. :shucks: And thats why us, Jews and Asians get the Nobel prizes, but not them.

But now you just lectured me in some of them getting the prizes.

A closer look at the Peace Nobel Prizes (no prize that would illustrate the intellectual and educational superiority of a culture and society, however, which was at the basis of my argument):

1978 - Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yasser Arafat
2003 - Shirin Ebadi
2005 - Mohamed ElBaradei
2006 - Muhammad Yunus

Sadat: okay, one can count that one.
Arafat: a murderer and terrorist
Ebadi: a human rights activist and Iranian judge, living in exile in GBR. Obviously not the quran-obedient Muslims that defines Islam, but kind of an apostate already.
Baradei: the liar and manipulator and fraudster at the helm of the UN nuclear watchdog, responsible for delaying alarms over the iranian weapon program.
Yunus: I mentioned him, chosen for the wrong category, and his models having lost reputation by now. A bad awakening.


Still Muslims on that list.
A list you said it doesn't exit on page 2 and on page 3 you confirmed it is.

[Cybermat47]

Am I the only one who thinks that threads like these (regardless of original intentions) are driving away people/interest from GT? I don't like xenophobic rants when they're coming from Islamist extremists, but I like xenophobic rants even less when they're tolerated in a place that's supposed to be all about a hobby I enjoy :nope:

Agreed, threads like this are just stupid. Why anyone would start it is beyond me. What did the OP think was going to happen?

[Betonov]

You have to understand how his mind works.
Muslims don't get nobel prizes, therefore any muslims that do get nobel prizes are obviously not muslims.
Or alternately, they are muslims but don't deserve the prize so it doesn't count.

That's giving too much individuality to Muslims. That can't be true.

[Sailor Steve]

...but I like xenophobic rants even less when they're tolerated in a place that's supposed to be all about a hobby I enjoy :nope:
But GT has nothing to do with that hobby, which is why we have GT in the first place. The simple answer to that idea is to just get rid of GT. The problem there is that there are no longer enough members posting about the hobby to keep Subsim afloat. General Topics is the main place for people to converse these days, and if you restrict what people discuss in GT then why have it at all?

[Skybird]

Don't look at me, Steve, I did not start this - and haven'T started anything like this since a very very long time. Just check my profile, and then "threads started by Skybird". People might be surprised.

It's just that I take the endless repetition of always the same lies as a provocation, and yes, that angers me. In principle getting labelled a mentally insane if not agreeing with politically correct mainstream ideology does not help either. And that is what people do when they call anyone disagreeing with them, a xyz-phobe: they declare him mentally insane. Because a mental derangement lies at the bottom of phobia, which is defined as an irrational and rationally unfounded fear without reasonable, logical basis. If opposing opinion and its explanations get declared to be be an issue of intellectual "disease" that way, I take offence from that maleficent tactic.

From there it is only a small step to when we once again will forcefully put people disagreeing with the politically wanted ideas into mental asylums and "treat" them there.

For their own goodness, of course. Mentally ill people need proper treatment to become "healthy" again, as we all know.

[Bilge_Rat]

Back to the original topic:



"How did Muslim conquerors treat those they conquered?" A homework assignment obtained by MyFoxDC.com showed the correct answer was, “With tolerance, kindness and respect."

:yeah:

really???

Tamerlane's victims would beg to differ with that PC interpretation:


While Timur professed to be a good Muslim, he obviously felt no compunction about destroying the jewel-cities of Islam and slaughtering their inhabitants. Damascus, Khiva, Baghdad... these ancient capitals of Islamic learning never really recovered from Timur's attentions. His intent seems to have been to make his capital at Samarkand the first city of the Islamic world.

Contemporary sources say that Timur's forces killed about 19 million people during their conquests. That number is probably exaggerated, but Timur does seem to have enjoyed massacre for its own sake

http://asianhistory.about.com/od/profilesofasianleaders/p/TimurProf.htm


Delhi was sacked and left in ruins. Before the battle for Delhi, Timur executed 100,000 captives:[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur#cite_note-EI-12)

(...)
After Delhi fell to Timur's army, uprisings by its citizens against the Turkic-Mongols began to occur, causing a bloody massacre within the city walls. After three days of citizens uprising within Delhi, it was said that the city reeked of decomposing bodies of its citizens with their heads being erected like structures and the bodies left as food for the birds. Timur's invasion and destruction of Delhi continued the chaos that was still consuming India and the city would not be able to recover from the great loss it suffered for almost a century.

(...)

In 1400 Timur invaded (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur%27s_invasions_of_Georgia) Christian Armenia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia) and Georgia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)). Of the surviving population, more than 60,000 of the local people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_of_the_Caucasus) were captured as slaves, and many districts were depopulated.[38] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur#cite_note-38)

Then Timur turned his attention to Syria, sacking Aleppo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleppo)[39] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur#cite_note-39) and Damascus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus).[40] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur#cite_note-40) The city's inhabitants were massacred, except for the artisans, who were deported to Samarkand.

He invaded Baghdad in June 1401. After the capture of the city, 20,000 of its citizens were massacred. Timur ordered that every soldier should return with at least two severed human heads to show him. (Many warriors were so scared they killed prisoners captured earlier in the campaign just to ensure they had heads to present to Timur.)

(...)

The conquests of Timur are claimed to have caused the deaths of up to 17 million people, an assertion impossible to verify.[42] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur#cite_note-42)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur

I am so sick and tired of the PC police whitewashing history to suit today's politics.

[Cybermat47]

Back to the original topic:



really???

Tamerlane's victims would beg to differ with that PC interpretation:



http://asianhistory.about.com/od/profilesofasianleaders/p/TimurProf.htm



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur

I am so sick and tired of the PC police whitewashing history to suit today's politics.



Muslims are just like the rest of us, really. I mean, that's an example of a Muslim conquerer who was hardly an example of a good person, but don't forget that the Ottoman Empire was generally tolerant towards conquered people (generally: some Ottoman Emperors were just evil). Jews and Christians, two of the groups most aggressively targeted by Islamic militant groups these days, were actually allowed to keep their beliefs in the Ottoman Empire, provided they wore the correct clothes. A somewhat oppressive law, but hardly as bad as the what some of the Christians in Spain did to Muslims and Jews, or what Christians in Europe did to other Christians!


Really, it just depends on the people in charge.

[Sailor Steve]

Don't look at me, Steve,
I'm not looking at anyone. I only answered CCIP's comment concerning whether certain types of commentary should be banned to keep people from leaving Subsim.

[Sailor Steve]

Restrict what people discuss?

Examples include but are not limited to Neo-Nazi groups, Westboro Baptist Church types, racist supremacists, Klansmen, black militants, Islamic militants, Jewish conspiracists, anti-Semites, posting links to racist music, propaganda denying the Holocaust.
People have discussed all those things here, without problem. There is a difference between discussing those subjects and advocating them.

Can you identify anyone in this topic who used to partake in anti immigrant and anti muslim demonstrations alongside neo Nazis?
No. Can you?

Would their often repeated views on the inferiority of certain large groups of humans make them a racist supremacist?
Possibly. Who has said that here?

When links to hate sites are pointed out it gets a response like..... oh wow I thought the forum filter meant you couldn't write N*****s without it turning into *******
I don't recall anyone saying something like that.

[Oberon]

I think we can all learn a good example from Tchocky on the third post of this thread, it's not as if we didn't know where it was going to go. The same place all Muslim threads go. :nope:

[Bilge_Rat]

My dear fellow, the PC whitewashing in your article is from England in 1587 and America in 1827:har:

So glad you are laughing at your own jokes, its nice to see you can amuse yourself. :har:

[Feuer Frei!]

What did the OP think was going to happen?


Hoping for too much, obviously.

People can't have reasonable discussions about the article linked, ie schooling in the US, and addressing the subject matter, ie NOT a hate islam or all muslims are terrorists.

Am i kidding myself? Obviously.

If it makes the 'community' feel better, then fine, topics like this won't be raised anymore by me, (a bit like the corruption in the law enforcement etc) i'll just post my interactive maps, videos about custom-made guitars and all things rosy in this world so that people can discuss how glorious and perfect this world of ours is.

Seriously, if you are going to start insinuating that this thread had ulterior motives then that is a bit rich.

[Oberon]

If it makes the 'community' feel better, then fine, topics like this won't be raised anymore by me, (a bit like the corruption in the law enforcement etc) i'll just post my interactive maps, videos about custom-made guitars and all things rosy in this world so that people can discuss how glorious and perfect this world of ours is.

Probably the best idea all round, the very word Muslim seems to be a red rag to a bull to some around here, so probably best to eliminate the opportunity for rampaging.
I dare say others will pick up on it anyway, there'll always be Muslim hating here, seems to be par for the course.

[Oberon]

What concerns me, and I'm just going to drop this here and leave it. No need to PM me Steve or Jim, I just want to get this off my chest because despite the exodus of people I respect and like, I still have a lot of people on here that I call friend and this forum is where I interact with them.
But I have my concerns on how its seen from the outside, we have a membership of nearly 100k, I don't know how many of those are active (at the moment there are 71 registered users browsing the forum) now, with nearly 100k members, logic dictates that a percentage of them are quite possibly Islamic, and another percentage are also quite possibly homosexuals.
Now imagine if one of them clicks down here in GT one day and sees some of the viewpoints being raised, do you think that they're going to feel comfortable enough to post beyond what is needed for mods? Do you think they're going to feel welcome?
General Topics is one of the most active areas on this forum thanks to the recent dearth of Submarine simulations, as such it is the beacon to which people will navigate if they want to communicate beyond the big four up top (SHIII, IV and V) in essence, GT shapes the image of Subsim in a large way.
So...perhaps the question might be, what kind of image does Subsim want to project to people?

That's my bit, I'll leave the rest of you to it. :shucks:

[MH]

Actually it would be great if they did post.
Should everything be always comfortable?

BW @catfish
… I guess that is why we have fox nbc or bbc .
Everyone can feel comfortable.

Do you remember the religion festivals you had.
You or Tribsman and the rest did not complaint.

[Oberon]

Actually it would be great if they did post.
Should everything be always comfortable?

BW @catfish
… I guess that is why we have fox nbc or bbc .
Everyone can feel comfortable.

But do you really think that they would feel welcomed enough to post?
Tell me, how many Muslims have posted on GT? Openly.

I can only think of one, and he's been gone for a while now.

[Cybermat47]

-snip-

Okay, first off, I have never said you have ulterior motives. I said you post before thinking.


Secondly, if this thread was made to be a discussion thread and not about how evil Islam is, why did you say in the first post that there are no benefits to Islam?


I'm not saying Islam is perfect. In fact, I strongly disagree with it. But to say that it has no benefits is wrong. Much of 'Western' culture comes from what Muslims did centuries ago. There's a reason we use Arabic numerals rather than Roman ones.

Also, it was a thread like this that made TarJak, a friend of a lot of people here and one of the makers of GWX, leave. So sorry if I'm just a bit sick of this sort of thing.

[Bilge_Rat]

Your post amuses me, its just like reading the Daily Fail or watching O'reilly
on Fox.

Really? Your post reads like it was written by a 12 year old.

[Jimbuna]

Am I the only one who thinks that threads like these (regardless of original intentions) are driving away people/interest from GT? I don't like xenophobic rants when they're coming from Islamist extremists, but I like xenophobic rants even less when they're tolerated in a place that's supposed to be all about a hobby I enjoy :nope:

Agreed :yep:

But GT has nothing to do with that hobby, which is why we have GT in the first place. The simple answer to that idea is to just get rid of GT. The problem there is that there are no longer enough members posting about the hobby to keep Subsim afloat. General Topics is the main place for people to converse these days, and if you restrict what people discuss in GT then why have it at all?

Agreed :yep:

I think we can all learn a good example from Tchocky on the third post of this thread, it's not as if we didn't know where it was going to go. The same place all Muslim threads go. :nope:

Agreed :yep:

Hoping for too much, obviously.

People can't have reasonable discussions about the article linked, ie schooling in the US, and addressing the subject matter, ie NOT a hate islam or all muslims are terrorists.

Am i kidding myself? Obviously.

If it makes the 'community' feel better, then fine, topics like this won't be raised anymore by me, (a bit like the corruption in the law enforcement etc) i'll just post my interactive maps, videos about custom-made guitars and all things rosy in this world so that people can discuss how glorious and perfect this world of ours is.

Seriously, if you are going to start insinuating that this thread had ulterior motives then that is a bit rich.

I'm not subscribing to the ulterior motive theory.

What concerns me, and I'm just going to drop this here and leave it. No need to PM me Steve or Jim, I just want to get this off my chest because despite the exodus of people I respect and like, I still have a lot of people on here that I call friend and this forum is where I interact with them.
But I have my concerns on how its seen from the outside, we have a membership of nearly 100k, I don't know how many of those are active (at the moment there are 71 registered users browsing the forum) now, with nearly 100k members, logic dictates that a percentage of them are quite possibly Islamic, and another percentage are also quite possibly homosexuals.
Now imagine if one of them clicks down here in GT one day and sees some of the viewpoints being raised, do you think that they're going to feel comfortable enough to post beyond what is needed for mods? Do you think they're going to feel welcome?
General Topics is one of the most active areas on this forum thanks to the recent dearth of Submarine simulations, as such it is the beacon to which people will navigate if they want to communicate beyond the big four up top (SHIII, IV and V) in essence, GT shapes the image of Subsim in a large way.
So...perhaps the question might be, what kind of image does Subsim want to project to people?

That's my bit, I'll leave the rest of you to it. :shucks:

Food for thought and best post I've read in recent times.

Okay, I think we're all done here, looks like folk are agreeing to disagree and moving in ever decreasing circles.

What I'm pondering personally is the fact Neal prefers his moderators to use a 'light touch' and to that extent I try to allow as much freedom and non-interference as possible.

Perhaps that approach needs further consideration at times.

This is a good example of one of those times.