Mod / Radar help before i lose the will to live

[skip]

I am pretty much a noob at SH4, and these are the mods I have installed in order.

TMO 2.5
TMO 2.5 small patch
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
1.5_Optical Targeting Correction 031312 for RSRDCv502
1.5_OTC for 16 to 9 Aspect Ratio RSRDCv502
Bigger Better Protractors
Mission AoB Test
3000 Yard Bearing Tool (1920x)
Mission High Realism
Mission TDC Training
Missions Radar and TDC Training v1.02
Missions TMO+RSRDC pack
Improved Stock Environment v3 - TMO&RFB
Option 1 - ISE Realistic Colors
Option 2 - ISE New clouds+Waves

Hope this order is ok if not please help.


Iam trying to learn how to use the PPI radar and Ascope.

I have loaded up the radar missions from the mod to do this.

Anyways the PPI radar seems fairly easy do a sweep find a contact and read the range off.

However I cant figure out the Ascope when I have it on sweep it shows nothing even when I leave the PPI scope on focus over a target the Ascope still shows nothing.

Please please someone help me to get the Ascope to work and to understand how to read it.

[Sniper297]

I've been using this;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=89

So I don't need to bother looking at the A scope.

Some explanations;

1. I have the D2D version of SH4 so I never upgraded to 1.5, I'm still patched to 1.4, so I don't know if this has been corrected in 1.5. In SH4 1.4 the radar consoles are mislabeled, the one on the left is the A scope, the PPI is on the right.

2. The radar defaults to focus instead of sweep - if you change from one console to the other the sweep shuts off and you have to click it to restart.

3. The A scope is nothing more than a simple oscilloscope that shows range to target with a vertical spike. If the radar is sweeping, a spike will appear when the beam sweeps past the target (again it defaults to focus so if there's no spike you have to reset it to sweep to see anything other than a straight line) and the range is read from the line at the bottom. Note it says "mX100" so if it says 150 that's 15,000 yards. The range is very rough, it's actually more primitive than what they really had at the time.

Accurate range and bearing from the radar itself is impossible without some kind of radar mod, unless you have map contacts on, in which case you can measure from the gray targets on the chart.

[donna52522]

Are you talking about the 3-D TDC and radar range unit, if so what boat are you in, I don't think it is available in the early boats. I am not sure what boat class you need in order for it to become active. Even with a Salmon/Sargo class with radar I don't believe the 3-D TDC will work.

I may not even thinking of the same thing as you.

[CapnScurvy]

Skip, since your using the Optical Targeting Correction (OTC) mod, you're going to have the ability to use both the A-Scope and PPI screens to find targets. I have my own idea of how the radar scopes should work, so reading anything in the TMO manual won't help you when using the OTC Radar. In OTC you'll find documentation about the Radar, and the use of the two different screens the game has provided. I suggest you read the OTC documentation.

That being said, if you can find targets using the PPI screen, yet can't seem to get the A-Scope to do the same......I'm suspecting some kind of mod conflict going on.

I'll start down your list:

The "TMO 2.5 Small Patch"......I don't know what it does, and I did not make OTC to work with it. This mod is not made by Ducimus, and as far as I know, its not supported by him (if it where, he'd put it into TMO). Since OTC wasn't designed to work with a "TMO Patch", you shouldn't think things will work as expected.

You do have the correct edition of OTC to work with RSRDC (which works with TMO) so things are correct there.....its just the "Small Patch" mod that could be fouling up the works.

The mods following the "1.5_OTC for 16 to 9 Aspect Ratio RSRDCv502" may be causing problems too. I haven't looked at what the "Bigger Better Protractors" will do......but if it changes something in the "menu_1024_768.ini" file then this mod may be conflicting too. The "Mission AoB Test" and "3000 Yard Bearing Tool (1920x)" should be fine (I know something about those) but, the Mission Training mods.....I'm not so sure.

The final three mods regarding environmental things may be OK. You need to see what happens if you remove most of them, and start with just the following:

TMO 2.5
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
1.5_Optical Targeting Correction 031312 for RSRDCv502
1.5_OTC for 16 to 9 Aspect Ratio RSRDCv502
Mission AoB Test
3000 Yard Bearing Tool (1920x)

Start with these mods, see if the A-Scope works like the PPI station. If so, then add the following:

Improved Stock Environment v3 - TMO&RFB
Option 1 - ISE Realistic Colors
Option 2 - ISE New clouds+Waves

A word of caution.....NEVER remove a mod out of sequence. In other words, don't remove a mod that's not last on the list in the "Activation" list of JSGME. If you want to remove the "TMO 2.5 Small Patch" mod......remove all others, in their order of "Activation", before getting to the mod you wish to "deactivate".

And, while at it, might as well remove all mods from activation, then open the "Tasks...." menu in JSGME and let the apps "Compare Snapshot" (of the original stock game files) check to see what if anything has changed to the original game files. Didn't take a "Snapshot" of your clean game files after just installing the game? Might as well not take out fire insurance when working in a smoke shop! Reinstall the game completely, take the "Snapshot", then try the mod list I suggest.

[ETR3(SS)]

The PPI and A scope display two different radars. PPI is for the SJ Surface Search Radar while the A Scope is the SD Air Search Radar. The A Scope radar is omnidirectional, meaning it transmits and receives 360 degrees. Because of that you can only get range information off of the radar and not bearing.

[CapnScurvy]

The PPI and A scope display two different radars. PPI is for the SJ Surface Search Radar while the A Scope is the SD Air Search Radar. The A Scope radar is omnidirectional, meaning it transmits and receives 360 degrees. Because of that you can only get range information off of the radar and not bearing.

No, that's not true.

In "real life" the SD Air Search Radar used the older A-Scope unit to find air targets, however, the game doesn't distinguish a difference between the two stations. They are both treated the same, being primarily SJ Surface Search Radar. Actually, the regular game only alerts the player of found air targets (you're supposed to believe the detection is done by the SD Radar) by the text messages received, or by the plane icons appearing on the Navigation Map. This is done even if you haven't got the capabilities of using the Radar stations in-game (usually prior to mid 1942). SD Radar is already on the subs at the start of the war. When the Radar Stations are made available, their the SJ Surface Search. Both stations should show the same information.....just in a different way.

When using OTC, both stations are directional, meaning the antenna needs to be pointed towards a specific target in order for it to show on the screen. You do this by turning the antenna to a specific bearing by hand, or having the antenna "sweep" 360 degrees to find a target. Both stations need to have the correct range set to get a return....always have the range set to the farthest distance when sweeping 360 degrees, then move the "Range Switch" closer for greater accuracy. On the PPI screen, the blip is a small circle, the A-Scope screen provides a "Spike" upon hitting a return.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/USA-Scope.jpg


The above OTC A-Scope station is showing a return "spike". If the Range Switch were set to the mid setting of 32,000 yards, the spike would be read on the middle range scale at 24,000 yard distance. If the Range Switch were set at the shortest distance (4000 yard distance), the spike would be determined to be only 3000 yards away.

How do you find the A-Scope bearing of a target? Use the Bearing Indicator found mounted on the wall above the A-Scope screen.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/USAscopeStation.jpg

The above Bearing Indicator has the spike at approximately 10 degrees Starboard.

To check the OTC PPI station:


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/USPPI.jpg

The blip is at the 10 degree bearing mark, with the lowest Range Switch set, the target is 3000 yards away. Same for both stations.

With the OTC radar, planes are found on radar (where they are not on other mods). You know you have a plane by the increased speed the spike or blip moves on the screens. OTC also gives you a zoom feature to both radar stations, allowing for better viewing of either scopes, or the Bearing Indicator for the A-Scope Radar.

[donna52522]

The TMO Small Patch reverts these 4 files back to the previous TMO edition without the "Terrible T" campaign...As that was broken.

UPCData

CareerSart.upc
Flotillas.upc

---------------------------------

Submarine

NSS_Tambor.upc
NSS_Tench.upc

[ETR3(SS)]

I'm just gonna duck out of this one, because it seems what is historically accurate and what the game portrays and then what different mods portray are all different it seems. Best of luck in solving your issues.

[Sniper297]

You're thinking of SH3, in that one the A scope was strictly an aircraft warning with range only. Das Boot never had surface search radar or a PPI scope in real life.

SH4 fleet boats have an SD radar for aircraft warning but they failed to include any kind of receiver for it in the game, used the A scope for SJ range info instead. That could possibly have been accurate for early SJ radar (the first experimental British radar was a jury rigged oscilloscope with a center spike that got longer or shorter with range) but improvements in PPI scopes made a separate range indicator redundant very early in the war. The mods with the range rings are more correct for the era.

[TorpX]

He may of been thinking of SHCE (SH1); the SD radar was properly modeled in that game. Too bad Ubisoft forgot about it.

[CapnScurvy]

The TMO Small Patch reverts these 4 files back to the previous TMO edition without the "Terrible T" campaign...As that was broken.

UPCData

CareerSart.upc
Flotillas.upc

---------------------------------

Submarine

NSS_Tambor.upc
NSS_Tench.upc

I've taken a look at what's changed within these four files (using the tool WinMerge) compared to "1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5"; plus the differences when adding "RSRDC_TMO_V502"; then the differences between "1.5_Optical Targeting Correction 031312 for RSRDCv502".

I can tell you without a doubt, the "TMO 2.5 Small Patch" is useless after adding RSRDC v502 to the mod list:

1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
1_TMO_25_small patch
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1

The RSRDC "CareerStart.upc" and the "Flotillas.upc" are vastly different than either TMO's or the Small Patch addition. Having the Small Patch added after RSRDC would only break RSRDC. To what extent....I don't know. But, the files will be changed. I ran the game using the following mod list:

1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
1_TMO_25_small patch

The Campaign game started Dec. 8 1941 (RSRDC starts Dec. 6 1941), stating it's at Pearl, yet the game unfolds your sub sitting in Midway Harbor. Your home base is indeed at Pearl, yet the game has you starting at Midway. What happens after this is any one's guess.

Actually, the differences between the small patch and OTC files are fairly minor....I was going to suggest to just copy and paste the small patch "Submarine/NSS_Tambor.upc" and "NSS_Tench.upc" into OTC's files. But, after seeing the differences between RSRDC and the "small patched" TMO "UPCData/" files.....it would be no cake walk to correctly merge the files.

As a side note, I don't see where the conflict of the above mods could cause the A-Scope Radar to not work.

As was said by Sniper297:
"The radar defaults to focus instead of sweep - if you change from one console to the other, the sweep shuts off and you have to click it to restart". Could be the only reason for it not to appear to work.

[ETR3(SS)]

He may of been thinking of SHCE (SH1); the SD radar was properly modeled in that game. Too bad Ubisoft forgot about it.
This could very well be. While I have SH2 & 3, I never was one for the uboats.

[skip]

Many thanks for all the help and suggestions folks very much appreciated.

I finally figured out how to use both the radars for detecting ships, I believe that the mods were not at fault just my incompetence :).

However all is well now just one more thing does the radar contacts on the Ascope differ at certain angles.. I mean sometimes the spike hardly shows at all.

Thanks

[CapnScurvy]

Many thanks.........

However all is well now just one more thing does the radar contacts on the Ascope differ at certain angles.. I mean sometimes the spike hardly shows at all.

Thanks

The return size of the spike is hard coded in-game.

One of the things I found with it (besides being inaccurate), it's back wards to what it should be. The greater the distance away from the sub, the larger the spike. The nearer to the sub, the smaller the spike. Doesn't make sense, but that's what it does. Typical to some of the short comings of over site on quality control with the game.

If your using OTC's A-Scope, you'll find a couple of things that can't be changed/removed. Like the original scale found along the very bottom of the A-Scope:


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/da993eef-ca25-470e-a214-99e11bf11806_zpsfce2aea9.jpg

I can make the scale line, and the radar signal line (where the spike is) smaller in oveall size, yet I can't remove it entirely. With it showing though, you can compare the accuracy of the stock scale, compared to the three different range scales added to the scope screen. Comparing to the stock scale, the spike is around the 2700, 2800 yard distance. It's hard to tell for sure since the only marks are in 1000 yard increments. I can tell you the target is sitting at exactly 3000 yards distance from the sub (I put it there in an edited test mission I made for correcting the radar). The mod is accurate; stock game....not so much.