I officially declare my Business a MUSLIM FREE Zone

[Feuer Frei!]

So says Jan Morgan of the Gun Cave Indoor Shooting Range in Hot Springs, Arkansas.

CLICK ME FOR ARTICLE (http://www.tpnn.com/2014/09/29/controversial-owner-declares-her-store-a-muslim-free-zone-find-out-her-reasoning/)

Just ignore the dumb picture at the top of the article and read the words instead, you are in for a roller-coaster ride of controversy and everything in-between.

I agree with the first line though.

"The western world is at war with radical Islam".



Her paint brush is a very very broad brush indeed.

[ikalugin]

I don't think that it is justified, and it appears to me that it goes against US ideology.

I also wonder where did the 270 million figure come from.

[Feuer Frei!]

I don't think that it is justified, and it appears to me that it goes against US ideology


I think you might be onto something here :haha:

She's a nut job. No diplomacy needed.

[Dread Knot]

The question I always have to ask myself when I see outrageous internet statements like this are; is this a legitimate raving loon, or just a calculated, cynical ploy to gin up business / publicity or drive an agenda?

[ikalugin]

Both probably.

[Dread Knot]

Both probably.

Possibly. Just looking at her little manifesto and all the red button-pushing looks really blatant.

[Wolferz]

She has a right to her opinion just like all of us here.
She also has the right to refuse service in her business to anyone she doesn't like the look of. If she sold weapons and ammo to a home grown terrorist or other murderous individual, some of you guys would be at the head of the line to condemn her for it. Especially if that customer went on a killing spree.

Did the Tea Party nutter logo throw you off that much? She made some very valid points.

Disarming the American populace seems to be a running global theme these days.
You can have my weapons when you pry them from my cold dead fingers. I'll give up the ammo first. Try not to get in its way.:arrgh!:

[Oberon]

She has a right to her opinion just like all of us here.
She also has the right to refuse service in her business to anyone she doesn't like the look of. If she sold weapons and ammo to a home grown terrorist or other murderous individual, some of you guys would be at the head of the line to condemn her for it. Especially if that customer went on a killing spree.

She's far more likely to sell weapons to a white young male who then goes on a killing spree, or has their son go on a killing spree after stealing their weapon than she is to sell a weapon or ammunition to a Muslim who goes on a killing spree.

http://www.prosebeforehos.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/the-real-risk-of-terrorism.jpg

[ikalugin]

She has a right to her opinion just like all of us here.
She also has the right to refuse service in her business to anyone she doesn't like the look of. If she sold weapons and ammo to a home grown terrorist or other murderous individual, some of you guys would be at the head of the line to condemn her for it. Especially if that customer went on a killing spree.

Did the Tea Party nutter logo throw you off that much? She made some very valid points.

Disarming the American populace seems to be a running global theme these days.
You can have my weapons when you pry them from my cold dead fingers. I'll give up the ammo first. Try not to get in its way.:arrgh!:

I think if it comes to that I won't touch your fire arm. Because it would be poisoned by an airborne chemical agent if you catch my drift.

[Feuer Frei!]

She has a right to her opinion just like all of us here.
Sure. But when an opinion is so askew and 'general' and hand-picks phrases out of the Koran and applies that to ALL Muslims then yea, it's an opinion which doesn't do much to raise her credibility.
She also has the right to refuse service in her business to anyone she doesn't like the look of. Sure. But when you 'paint' a broad stroke with the same brush to all of the same type of persons, be it religious, ethnic, cultural, yellow, green, gay, red or purple, then we have a problem. If she sold weapons and ammo to a home grown terrorist or other murderous individual, some of you guys would be at the head of the line to condemn her for it. Especially if that customer went on a killing spree.
Oberon covers that.

Did the Tea Party nutter logo throw you off that much? She made some very valid points
Valid? The only valid point made in that article wasn't by her, it was by the reporter. :haha:

[ikalugin]

To explain my point - if anyone invades mainland US in such a way that locals would require to use their private arms, then I seriously doubt that there would be any issues with using persistent chemical agents or other such means which would essentially negate the armed population.

[Skybird]

5) My range rents and sells guns to my patrons. Why would I want to rent or sell a gun and hand ammunition to someone who aligns himself with a religion that commands him to kill me?
Indeed.

People who insist on following the Koran, are taboo for me. No. Matter. What.

The ideological fundament of Islam is what it is, and it is non-negotiable, since the Koran is understood to be the word of God. As such, it is a racist, totalitarian and intolerant claim for superiority that demands the subjugation and discrimination of Jews and Christians, and the killing of anyone else who is not 'Muslim" or is Muslim but not in the right way (regulated by Shariah), and the killing of all Jews and Christians that revolt against getting discriminated and refusing to pay protection money. That is the Koran, and so that is Islam. To ignore that, means to talk about anything - just not about Islam.

From a libertarian POV I am totally for owners of shops and places being free to deny people a deal with whom they do not want to make deals, no matter what their reasons and motives are. But lets face it, the servile mind of Zeitgeist claims that to be racist, and so laws have been put into place that forbid shop owners to "discriminate" between different customers (that is the original meaning of the word discrimination: to make/to see the differences between two or more different things). What these laws really mean is that those holding private property in form of such a shop, get partially expropriated.

That is a prime argument why I would be extremely hesitant to open a business in Germany. If I am not allowed to be the master in my house, I have no real interest to build it. If I am not free in refusing customers I do not want to make deals with, then I am out.

Interesting that the ten point list of that shop in the US has been taken off the web meanwhile.

[ikalugin]

What would you use to judge that the customer in front of you is a Muslim though? I mean most male customers would be unlikely to advertise their religious views in any definitive fashion.

[Feuer Frei!]

[QUOTE=Skybird;2247808]

You can be the master of your own house, no dramas i'm sure.
But to assume that all Muslims are radicals, like our dear little Jan is just nut case material.


And The Dept of Justice may have had something to do with the removal of that website link.

[Betonov]

I once made my business a muslim free zone.

my kebab stand went bust after 2 days :wah:

[ikalugin]

Was the kebab (shop) removed then?

[Dread Knot]

To explain my point - if anyone invades mainland US in such a way that locals would require to use their private arms, then I seriously doubt that there would be any issues with using persistent chemical agents or other such means which would essentially negate the armed population.

When it comes to private gun ownership these days it's rarely about resisting foreign invasions. It's usually the government is coming to put me in a FEMA camp, so I need my guns. Or they are going to ban all guns, so I need more guns.

A smart man once said to try to plan your life independent of who is elected to office. At least run your life in spite of who is elected.

A friend of mine followed this example. When President Obama was re-elected he bought 2,000 shares of Ruger stock. The stock skyrocketed. He sold half last May. He did not believe for a moment that President Obama was going to succeed in taking away the guns, just that enough other knee-jerk types did.

I can't help but admire his thinking and bank account. :)

[ikalugin]

So the pro gun people are afraid of governmental oppression? Then how does the gun ownership help if there are so many non violent ways to oppress the population?

And if the police does come to imprison you (without proper justification of you commuting a crime), how would the gun ownership help?

[Betonov]

Was the kebab (shop) removed then?

had to close, no customers :O:

[Dowly]

Could her shooting range be considered a public accommodation? :hmmm:

[Dread Knot]

So the pro gun people are afraid of governmental oppression? Then how does the gun ownership help if there are so many non violent ways to oppress the population?

And if the police does come to imprison you (without proper justification of you commuting a crime), how would the gun ownership help?

You could probably put these questions to the lone guerrilla currently living out his law enforcement evasion fantasy in the Poconos Mountains of Pennsylvania.

I doubt you'd get a a rational answer. :dead:

[Skybird]

You can be the master of your own house, no dramas i'm sure.
But to assume that all Muslims are radicals, like our dear little Jan is just nut case material.
For the 1001st time: I describe the ideology of Islam as what it is, with Koran and Hadith, the sura at its basis and fundament. Withotu this fundament, it is not Islam you are talking of, but just an imagination told by subjective fantasy - and then please call it that, but do not call it "Islam": it isn't. And the ideological fundament of Islam is not any different than what I say. You can check that in the most original scripture it claims to be its fundament. Ort do you want to tell Islam that you know better what it is than Islam knows that itself?

Regarding the "me in my shop scenario", I obviously spoke in a far more general context. I would claim the right to deny any customer if that is what I would want to do: refusing to come to a deal with him. It does not matter what my motivation is for that. Like I also determine which price I demand for what item or service I offer.

Regarding Muslims (this time the person, not the ideology), it should be known by now that I see it this way: that the criterion for me whether I could come to terms with somebody claiming to be Muslim is whether I see him following the rules of the Koran, or ignoring them. The Koran would demand a male Muslim to see me as inferior, as an infidel and kuffar that he must help to subjugate and to discriminate (for male Muslims doing so is mandatory by Koran'S ruling), even more, since I am neither Christian or Jew, he would need to wish seeing me being killed, by him, or by other Muslims, since I am an infidel and the Koran demands the killing of infidels that are no members of people of the the book. So, a Muslim living by the Koran for me would be a big problem, obviously. As you and others correctly point out, not all people claiming to be Muslim, indeed want that, and some of these indeed do fall in line with Western cultural demands, values and laws. But it is a fact that by doing so they already have violated what the Koran demands them to do (and I assume for a moment you also do not want to refer to the later-risen tactic of taqiya), and by that from the Koran'S and the Sharia'S POV they are not true Muslims, but apostates, who either fall back into line with Islam, or who are to be killed.

As I repeatedly said, I have talked with several "Muslims" who were in doubt about Islam, and I accompanied two or three of them who turned into full confessing apostates, under great individual sacrifices and emotional suffering, and conflicts. People like you, people of your misled thinking, are betraying thse people, and turn a shrugging shoulder on them, like you also leave families and people in the rain who fled from Isamic tyranny in forign countries, attracted by the promise for liberty and proteciton from rcism in the West - only to see people of your misled thinking denying the terorr they have been thorugh, and enying the reaosns why this terror is being carried oiutk, and denying them the legitmicay of what actually they have experienced themselves and have witnessed with there ver yown senses: you tell them that it is not Islam they were prosecuted by and that wants their women being oppressed. I other words, you laugh the victims in their faces and deny the legitimacy of their claim that they are fleeing from the rule of an dieology's rtule and tyranny that has this content, and not any other. You do that becasue you think you know it better. And you know it better withgout having a cionvincing intellectual basis for your views. You just do not want to admit that Islam could be as bad as it obviously is, that violates your desire for a fair and humane world where we all sit under the tree at springtime, hold each other'S hands and sing happy songs. Hell, I am so sick and tired of this pathologic denial of obvious reality.

Helping those apostates I mentioned to become aware of these contradictions in their thinking (to think of them as muslim identity where in fact they already had decide din their heart that they do not want to live by its grim, barbaric content) was always a major part of their travel towards inner liberalization and freedom, this fight against insane attempts to label themselves as something barbaric that by their humane intentions and ideas they could not and did not want to be any longer. A person that would act and live his life in accordance with the values and ideals of humanistic tradition and liberalism, cannot correctly insist to be seen as a Nazi - it just would nto make sense. A person that refuses to follow the rules of the Koran demanding totalitarianism and intolerance, racism, discrimination, killing and subjugation, cannot claim to be Muslim, for these things are what Muhammad demanded from his followers and what thus is demanded by the Koran. The Koran is not the sermon on the mount. It is a declaration of war against all non-Muslim mankind.

Twist and turn it as long as you want. At the end - you still are wrong. You are not dealing with the real people, Muslims and apostates alike - you are dealing with shadows that are cast by your own mind. In other words, you idea of what reality should be, but what it simply is not.

[Buddahaid]

You bring out your big golden book of stereotypes and check them out. Failing that you hold up a cross and see if they shy away from it. Oh wait that's for something else.....

[Oberon]

Was the kebab (shop) removed then?

had to close, no customers :O:

So...you could say that the Kebab was removed from premises...

http://new3.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Remove+kebab+2012+_6ddff0945578da18ea3e4a58524ee89 c.png

[Skybird]

You bring out your big golden book of stereotypes and check them out.

That is a way to describe the Koran in a way that I never heard before, but in a way you could be right with your description.

Just that it is not my book, but Islam's.

[Armistead]

I wouldn't sell either, but I wouldn't promote it. My only question, if one opens to the public to sell their goods, can they discriminate on religious grounds only?

[MH]

Another... some not Muslims are evil , some not Muslims are not evil thread....
Big mess are making...those ...not believers.
In reality it is easer to get hit by a car than by not Muslim therefore all is good.

Don't loose your heads over it...it is cultural issue..


Meanwhile in the not Muslim ME....

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/06/ISIS-Salahaddin-Division-WC-1.jpg

[Betonov]

That's a Hilux :o
We can surrender now, convert and save us all the troubles.

they got hiluxes, we don't

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk

[MH]

That's a Hilux :o
We can surrender now, convert and save us all the troubles.


Hilux is a car for real men around here...embedded in deeply in the culture.
Possibly even mentioned in Koran:hmmm:...Imam Tribesman may have the answer.

[Armistead]

Good question .
The short answer is ...No
The longer answer is....No you can't.


thanks for clarifying ...

[Rockstar]

Another... some not Muslims are evil , some not Muslims are not evil thread....

Meanwhile in the not Muslim ME....

Hadith indicate that black flags coming from the area of Khorasan will signify the appearance of the Mahdi is nigh. Khorasan is in todays Iran, and some scholars have said that this hadith means when the black flags appear from Central Asia, i.e. in the direction of Khorasan, then the appearance of the Mahdi is imminent. This kind not muslim religious fever only serves to inspire even more not muslim people to take up arms with the other not muslims.

The messenger of allah mr. mohammad said; The black banners will come from the East and their hearts will be as firm as iron. Whoever hears of them should join them and give allegiance, even if it means crawling across snow. Which is what we are hearing about more often in the media.

In Islam there are two flags. One is white and one is black. Written across both flags in Arabic are the words, “There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger”.

The white flag is called Al-Liwaa and serves as the sign for the leader of the Muslim army (I mean not muslim army) and is the flag of the not Islamic State.

The black flag is called Ar-Raya and is used by the not Muslim army. It is also called the flag of jihad, and is carried into battle. One flag is governmental and the other is a military flag.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1HgVFSeO-gY/U8p5NVO36-I/AAAAAAAAEQQ/FK7OYcg9iKw/s1600/67181_IS-jihadists-300x200.jpg

And before anyone feels the need to tell me my world view in incorrect or that I have it all wrong. I suggest you get out from behind your computer and go convince that not muslim in the above photo instead. I'm sure the masters degree in politics will make him quiver in fear of such intellect and insights that he will most certainly and immediately see the light and the error of his ways. Go get'em tiger

[Betonov]

.Imam Tribesman may have the answer.

I can see him now, yelling quotes and replies from a brewery smokestack turned in to a minaret somewhere in Ireland :har:

[Feuer Frei!]

So the 10-point list is back up on her website.

http://janmorganmedia.com/2014/09/business-muslim-free-zone/#5LXiUUG8sImSPioW.99


:haha:

[Oberon]

I think this calls for the facepalm made of facepalms:

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs46/i/2009/176/c/b/epic_face_palm_by_madgod13.jpg

[Stealhead]

Do I get prize if I correctly say how many Capt. Picards are facepalming?

[Feuer Frei!]

Do I get prize if I correctly say how many Capt. Picards are facepalming?

Your prize for guessing correctly will be an all expenses paid Trip to one of Jan's seminars.

[Jimbuna]

The one before Feb.

[Aktungbby]

Two muslims walked in to my range last week with allah akbar ring tone and message alert tones on their smart phones. They spoke very little english, one did not have proof of U.S. citizenship, yet they wanted to rent and shoot guns (http://janmorganmedia.com/tag/guns/?lc=int_mb_1001). They were constantly glancing toward the cameras in the range, then looking at each other and speaking in their own language.
Their behavior was so strange, it frightened my patrons. No one would enter the range to shoot while they were there. Some of my customers left.
(can you blame them?) I have a federal firearms licence… The ATF informed us when we received the license that if we feel any reason for concern about selling someone a firearm, even sense that something is not right about an individual, or if we are concerned about that persons mental state, even if they pass a background check, we do not have to sell that person a gun. Two different ATF agents stressed that it is better to err on the side of caution.
In other words, a federal agency has given FFL’s discretion on firearms deals. An FFL can turn people away if there is any concern about their behavior and or plans for use of the firearm in the commission of a crime.

I have to make my meager living at a range at least 4 times a year and have always monitored who is on the line with me. Mostly for incompetence that might lead to my untimely demise:dead:: boy friends 'teaching' their girl friends etc.!:timeout: I have NO problem with this lady's thinking or reasoning. Less than a week ago I had to challenge three Middle Eastern 20's something gentlemen who entered into the public atm access area of a bank after hours while service was performed on an open machine-precisely my worst case scenario-they understood my concerns and we resolved the identity crises immediately. Only one Saudi spoke English. These are the times and those are the rules.

[Oberon]

http://i.imgur.com/8JjsbeU.jpg?1

[MH]

....And you are 100% to die.:haha:

[Oberon]

....And you are 100% to die.:haha:

At some point. Probably more likely to be killed by an item of your clothing than a terrorist. :dead:

[Wolferz]

I guess most people would rather die of old age.
That one is definitely 100% guaranteed.
So why make a big deal out of all the other ways one could die?
Personally, I don't want to die of old age. Rusted, broken and a burden on others is not an ideal way to live.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Woody Allen once said, "I don't mind dying. I just don't want to be there when it happens."

[mapuc]

About post #46

If you are not so unlucky to be one of these victims of an terror attack

Markus

[Feuer Frei!]

I have NO problem with this lady's thinking or reasoning[COLOR=orange] So no problem at all with her thinking? You sure? So throwing a blanket judgment out there and insinuating that all Muslims are terrorists and that they should be banned because you know, they are Muslims and they are bad? Sterotyping is bs. Until nutcases like Jan learn to not sterotype and make blanket judgement calls then this nutcase and anyone that supports her shallow, bigoted, racially-slurred, narrow-minded nutcase point of view then i'm afraid that there's not much hope for a credible discussion or indeed a credible support for such a decision. and Less than a week ago I had to challenge three Middle Eastern 20's something gentlemen who entered into the public atm access area of a bank after hours while service was performed on an open machine-precisely my worst case scenario-they understood my concerns and we resolved the identity crises immediately What? 3? Not ALL Muslims in the world? Just 3? And if they weren't muslims entering the access area? Germans maybe...because you know, all germans are nazis right? :haha: But in an unbelievable plot twist, you resolved the crysis and they assisted in alleviating you in your fears.
Sad times indeed.

You should go to 1 of Jan's seminars. Sounds like maybe you might start donating to her soon.
Good luck sir. Just hope i don't cross paths with you and ever get into a discussion with you about race, religion and painting broad strokes with a huge thick brush :hmmm:

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/d8/32/75/d83275d1c495d9338d923830a3dc72c7.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Highly emotive times in many parts of the world, not helped by the acts of beheading hostages.

We at SubSim are nothing like those that would carry out such atrocities and as such should maintain a position of friendliness amongst one another.

Calm waters if we can all be so kind.