What are the two dials in compass and possibly a bug

[nwhite654]

Hey Guys! I can't figure out what the inner dial in the compass is for. Anyone know?

Also the dials in the UZO and periscopes don't appear to match.

An image is worth a thousand words:

https://5b54b8c04e39640ddb9f2df3bcae870559bdddf4.googledri ve.com/host/0BziHJTPXbrHteDM0SVNqMWMzNzA/SH3%20smaller.jpg

I don't know if it matters but these are the mods I'm using:

NYGM Tonnage War V2.5 – Stand Alone Version
NYGM3_New
NYGM3_6D
IABLShipsforNYGM_New
3rd Flotilla Mod
NYGM HiRes Submarines
Van1920x1080


Thanks!

[TECHNICOLOR]

the bottom indicator shows your position compared to the cardinal points.In the image it shows that your boats nose is pointing West approximately.
The top one i got no idea.

[Sailor Steve]

The extra set of numbers in the UZO view is new to me. I don't recall ever seeing it before, so it must be an NYGM thing.

The outer ring in the compass is the compass itself. The inner ring is wrong, because the real inner ring was marked 1-10.

http://a.imageshack.us/img144/4531/sh3img45201017106376.png
Screenshot courtesy Nemo7

The inner ring would rotate completely once for every degree turned, allowing accuracy to 10ths of a degree. Unfortunately the game doesn't allow the inner ring to turn, so even with Hitman's version it's still only for show.

[Pisces]

It's impossible to know exactly without knowing with what course the boat is actually moving on the map. And what direction the uso is looking at. Zoom in on the uboat marker on the map and look at which direction it moves. What is the angle versus the horizontal and vertical directions.

To know which dial represents the UZO viewdirection turn towards the bow or aft. You should see the shark teeth on the bow and know that that is in front of you.

It might be just easier to simply lookup the NYGM manual or documentation.

I'm guessing the top dial above the uzo is the Gyro angle, the course that the torpedoes turn to if you shoot at that direction. It doesn't match the angles in the lower circular dials. The one below the is likely the viewing direction of the uzo, measured relative to the bow.

I guess the lower dials show that the boat is moving on course 288 (where the 0 of the inner compass circle points to). It makes no sense to consider the bow north, and port West and so on. The compass scale with the N,E,S, W on it is likely the real north compass. Your pointing direction is shown by the inner compass scale.

[nwhite654]

I think both issues were bugs. I resolved the "problem" by loading different/additional mods. So this is the new loadout:


NYGM Tonnage War V2.5 – Stand Alone Version
NYGM3_New
NYGM3_6D
Restore Gods Eye View
IABLShipsforNYGM_New
3rd Flotilla Mod
NYGM HiRes Submarines
Ahnenerbe WideGui 1920 x 1080
Supplement to V16B1 (JSGME)

[BigWalleye]

I think both issues were bugs. I resolved the "problem" by loading different/additional mods. So this is the new loadout:


NYGM Tonnage War V2.5 – Stand Alone Version
NYGM3_New
NYGM3_6D
Restore Gods Eye View
IABLShipsforNYGM_New
3rd Flotilla Mod
NYGM HiRes Submarines
Ahnenerbe WideGui 1920 x 1080
Supplement to V16B1 (JSGME)

Your original problem was really quite simple and easily fixed:

(From vanjast's documentation for Van1920x1080)

"This mod is built on top of NYGM 3.6D and Hitman_GUI_NYGM3_1.0 mods."

Just add the Hitman_GUI mod to your original mod list and everything should be OK.

And your "solution" is fraught with peril.

(From Ahnenerbe's documentation for Ahnenerbe WideGui 1920x1080)

"This mod was created on the basis of Conus' SH3GWXWS 2.3 1360x768 with subsequent global changes under resolution of 1920x1080."

Ahnenerbe's GUI was developed for and tested with GWX3.0. I don't believe I have seen a post that indicates it will run successfully with NYGM. It might, but it doesn't seem likely.

vanjast's 1920x1080 mod was developed and tested with NYGM and Hitman's GUI. I can vouch for the fact that it works fine when activated over the mod list vanjast recommends, with none of the problems you experienced. Try it. I think you will get the most satisfactory results that way.

[Leitender]

nwhite654

The inner "dial" of the compass is a fixed 360° disk of the bearing, where 0° ist straight ahead, and 180° ist straight back. The outer one ist the course (or heading) itself. This design is "american-like", whereas the fixed bearing disk on german compasses is located on an outer ring. Please see the documentation in my Anschütz Compass Mod (regrettably only in german, but with many self-explaining pictures).

The upper display on top is, as already mentioned, the gyro angle. If you like to synchronise the gyro angle with your bearing, set target speed to "0" and range to "100hm" (maximum, to minimize the parallaxe correction of the TDC, AOB doesn´t matter), and then you will aim with your optics.

sailor steve

The outer ring in the compass is the compass itself. The inner ring is wrong, because the real inner ring was marked 1-10.The inner ring isn´t wrong, it´s a kind of "american" design. The 10° ring is a vernier used by Anschütz compasses.

Unfortunately the game doesn't allow the inner ring to turn, so even with Hitman's version it's still only for show. Of course it does! You probably missed to include the additional vernier dial into dials.cfg. This idea from master anvart was one of the most awful improvements of controlling the boat in SH3. Please see also my compass mod. I´m sure you will enjoy it :up:

[BigWalleye]

[QUOTE=Leitender;2246346] This design is "american-like", whereas the fixed bearing disk on german compasses is located on an outer ring.
(...)
The inner ring isn´t wrong, it´s a kind of "american" design.QUOTE]

Leitender, could you please provide the source for those statements, in particular that the design illustrated is an "American" version? It doesn't agree with the information provided in NavShips 324 0149, The Arma Gyrocompass, Mark 7 Mod 4, dated August 1944 (available online here: http://www.hnsa.org/doc/gyromk7/). This is the official US Navy maintenance manual for the gyrocompass produced by the Arma Corporation of Brooklyn, NY, USA under a US Navy contract, for use in US submarines. The diagram on Page 28 clearly illustrates a dial face with a fixed external ring and a rotating inner compass card, the way nautical compass faces in ships of all nations have been laid out for a couple of hundred years. See, for instance, the photo of the compass binnacle aboard USS Constitution (commissioned 1797) https://www.google.com/search?q=uss+constitution+compass+binnacle&newwindow=1&biw=1920&bih=970&tbm=isch&imgil=KFT1vmv8CGW_cM%253A%253BDac_3DB7NlE1UM%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Facademyphotos.net%25252Fph otogallery%25252Fdisplayimage-424-Ships'-Compass-Binnacle.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=KFT1vmv8CGW_cM%253A%252CDac_3DB7NlE1UM%252C_&usg=__DI3u2NfeZEtc97rvpNTiqLMRMY0%3D or that of HMS Victory (commissioned 1778) https://www.google.com/search?q=hms+victory+compass+binnacle&newwindow=1&biw=1920&bih=970&tbm=isch&imgil=vHFam1_1jFY0SM%253A%253B7A8Z6Af7FBLnDM%253Bh ttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.flickr.com%25252Fphot os%25252Fdamiavos%25252F6273422419%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=vHFam1_1jFY0SM%253A%252C7A8Z6Af7FBLnDM%252C_&usg=__ccy5lgeYezHYa_HjrX9koa2WcCo%3D.

I'd really appreciate knowing the basis of your statement.

[Pisces]

nwhite654

The inner "dial" of the compass is a fixed 360° disk of the bearing, where 0° ist straight ahead, and 180° ist straight back. ...Then how come the inner 0 degrees isn't straight on top (in the OP image) if it is fixed? Why is it turned such that 70-something degrees is upright?

I don't know what the NYGN mod has in it's interface, or any derivatives of it. I just find this curious.

[BigWalleye]

Then how come the inner 0 degrees isn't straight on top (in the OP image) if it is fixed? Why is it turned such that 70-something degrees is upright?

I don't know what the NYGN mod has in it's interface, or any derivatives of it. I just find this curious.

The "stock" NYGM (updated to NYGM 3.6D) large slider compass has a fixed heading disk at the center (oriented to dead ahead equals zero degrees) and a rotating outer ring. The smaller compass in the lower right cluster has a non-functional Vernier center dial.

Hitman's GUI adds a functional Vernier to the large slider compass in place of the heading disk. The Vernier on the small dial is remains non-functional.

Van1920x1080 uses pieces cropped from both the "stock" NYGM Targa image files and from Targa files added by Hitman. All the assembly is, of course, controlled by Van1920x1080's own menu_1024_768.ini file. The gemisch that results from using Van1920x1080's menu_1024_768.ini file when some of the specified files are missing (OP did not activate Hitman_GUI) probably best explains the image OP posted.

(Sorry I couldn't post any screenies. Still haven't learned how to post images on SubSim.)

[Sailor Steve]

(Sorry I couldn't post any screenies. Still haven't learned how to post images on SubSim.)
Join Imageshack or PhotoBucket. They show you how to upload pictures to their sites, and transfer them to SubSim. It's easy and it's free. :sunny:

[BigWalleye]

Join Imageshack or PhotoBucket. They show you how to upload pictures to their sites, and transfer them to SubSim. It's easy and it's free. :sunny:

JOIN?!!!??:O:

Oh, well. I suppose I gotta.

Thanks for the info.

[Pisces]

The "stock" NYGM (updated to NYGM 3.6D) large slider compass has a fixed heading disk at the center (oriented to dead ahead equals zero degrees) and a rotating outer ring. The smaller compass in the lower right cluster has a non-functional Vernier center dial.

Hitman's GUI adds a functional Vernier to the large slider compass in place of the heading disk. The Vernier on the small dial is remains non-functional.

Van1920x1080 uses pieces cropped from both the "stock" NYGM Targa image files and from Targa files added by Hitman. All the assembly is, of course, controlled by Van1920x1080's own menu_1024_768.ini file. The gemisch that results from using Van1920x1080's menu_1024_768.ini file when some of the specified files are missing (OP did not activate Hitman_GUI) probably best explains the image OP posted.

(Sorry I couldn't post any screenies. Still haven't learned how to post images on SubSim.)Ah I see, rancid mod-soup.

[BigWalleye]

Ah I see, rancid mod-soup.:D

In this case, not enough cooks....

[Leitender]

I'd really appreciate knowing the basis of your statement.

Well, I believe to have seen a compass design of the same way than the one in Silent Hunter. But I´m sorry for not having in mind where it was, since it is long ago. The only thing I remember was that it appears clear to me why the design was that way in Silent Hunter.

IIRC, the compass design was untouched in all versions of Silent Hunter, and the initial version was an american submarine in the pacific (SH1). So this explained the difference for me. I´m not sure to have read the source you´ve linked above earlier, but now it seems for me that my assumption could be wrong. But what was the reason for the SH Devs to create that design? Did they have different sources?

[BigWalleye]

Well, I believe to have seen a compass design of the same way than the one in Silent Hunter. But I´m sorry for not having in mind where it was, since it is long ago. The only thing I remember was that it appears clear to me why the design was that way in Silent Hunter.

IIRC, the compass design was untouched in all versions of Silent Hunter, and the initial version was an american submarine in the pacific (SH1). So this explained the difference for me. I´m not sure to have read the source you´ve linked above earlier, but now it seems for me that my assumption could be wrong. But what was the reason for the SH Devs to create that design? Did they have different sources?

No, Silent Hunter (SH1) did not have a compass with a rotating outer ring and a fixed inner dial. The compass in SH1 was a fixed card (North up) with a rotating pointer or "compass needle", probably necessitated by the limitations of the SVGA graphics of the time. That compass is clearly illustrated on Page 23 of the Silent Hunter manual, available on-line here: http://www.uboat.cz/down/sim/shmanual.pdf. So SH1 could not have been your source.

Of course, the rotating outer ring and fixed center is exactly the configuration used in Silent Hunter Two. The compass in SHII is illustrated on Page 46 of the Silent Hunter II manual, available on-line here: http://www.knightdiscounts.com/downloads/Silent%20Hunter%202%20Manual.pdf. But SHII is a simulation of German U-boats only, and has no playable American subs.

Are you quite certain that the compass with a rotating outer ring and fixed inner bearing card was not actually a German design?

[Leitender]

Are you quite certain that the compass with a rotating outer ring and fixed inner bearing card was not actually a German design?

I´m quite certain that I never saw a different compass on a german wwII uboat than the Anschütz Gyro compas which I tried to reconstruct in my modification.

In an earlier post you wrote:


a dial face with a fixed external ring and a rotating inner compass card, the way nautical compass faces in ships of all nations have been laid out for a couple of hundred years.So, if this particular compass design has a hundreds of years old tradition, I wonder how the SH devs came to that special design, if they had not a historical ideal. Was it completly artificial? What was the origin of both SH1 / SH2 compass designs? Does anyone knows that?

[BigWalleye]

I´m quite certain that I never saw a different compass on a german wwII uboat than the Anschütz Gyro compas which I tried to reconstruct in my modification.

In an earlier post you wrote:

So, if this particular compass design has a hundreds of years old tradition, I wonder how the SH devs came to that special design, if they had not a historical ideal. Was it completly artificial? What was the origin of both SH1 / SH2 compass designs? Does anyone knows that?

As I mentioned in a previous post, the configuration of the compass dial in SH1 was pretty clearly dictated by the limitations of the computer graphics available at the time. It was not feasible to have revolving dial faces, so no revolving dial faces were used for any SH1 gauges. All SH1 gauges were a simple fixed dial face with a solid white moving pointer. None of these gauges was based on, or made any attempt to look like, any historical prototype. To do so would have exceeded the capabilities of the PCs in use at the time.

I have no idea where the developers of SH2 drew the inspiration for the compass dial design they used. SH2 was obviously targeted for a more capable PC than existed when SH1 was published. The prototype they selected may have been used on a German submarine of WW2 or later vintage. Since the developers of SH2 made use of the improved graphics available to try and give a more historically accurate look to the game, I suspect the compass design was based on an existing U-boat compass that they had seen. Certainly the other gauges in SH2 at least tried to emulate historical U-boat prototypes, as have succeeding titles in the series.

[Sailor Steve]

I´m quite certain that I never saw a different compass on a german wwII uboat than the Anschütz Gyro compas which I tried to reconstruct in my modification.
As I tried to express in my earlier post, the compass you did such a good job of recreating in your very nice mod had two rotating dials. The inner dial was marked 1-10 because each mark was a degree, and it rotated once for every 10 degrees on the outer 360-degree dial.

From photographs I've looked at it seems that the outer dial of the US compass was part of the housing, and it was the inner ring was part of a flat disc that rotated.