State Police Officer Dies in Pennsylvania Ambush

[Gerald]

Law enforcement officers from three states were searching on Saturday for a suspect or suspects who ambushed two troopers at a state police barracks in northeastern Pennsylvania, killing one and wounding the other.
The slain trooper was identified on Saturday afternoon as Cpl. Bryon K. Dickson. The wounded trooper, who was identified as Alex T. Douglass, was in critical but stable condition after undergoing surgery at Geisinger Medical Center in Scranton.


Like these events are always tragic, and it is hard on the whole community.:shifty:


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/us/state-police-officer-dies-in-pennsylvania-ambush.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpHeadline&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news





Note: SEPT. 13, 2014

[BrucePartington]

Is the world going insane, or are these incidents becoming more visible?

[Wolferz]

Is the world going insane, or are these incidents becoming more visible?
Mass media clamors to put bad news on the wire. It's in their nature.:nope:

Considering the rise of the police state and some of the underhanded things they've been doing to otherwise innocent folk, I'm surprised it isn't happening more often.

Law enforcement views itself as an army fighting a war against everything criminal.

http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2012/09/drug-interdiction-for-patrol.aspx

The only problem with this mindset is that all too often innocent people get caught in the crossfire and suddenly the police become judge and jury and will make your life a living hell, leaving you with little recourse or remedy short of a huge attorney bill.
How to lose a large sum of money through police interdiction...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/07/police-intelligence-targets-cash/

There have been numerous law abiding citizens who found themselves on the receiving end of an interdiction traffic stop and had their money seized, even when no contraband is found.

If you're going on a family vacation, don't carry cash.
If you're moving to another state, don't carry cash.
If you're headed somewhere to buy supplies for your restaurant, don't carry cash.

That's three examples of people who were interdicted by law enforcement and were perceived to be in the drug trade and had a large sum of money stolen from them by a police officer, thanks to their usage of increased powers from the Patriot Act. The seized cash gets sent to a Federal interagency sharing program where it gets divvied up and passed around.
I call it legalized highway robbery because maybe one in a hundred traffic stops are found to be actually hauling contraband. The other ninety-nine are just ordinary folk who don't trust banks or can't have a bank account for whatever reason. But, it's enough to arouse suspicion and levy an accusation.

Like I said, I'm surprised it isn't happening more often.:hmmm:

[BrucePartington]

Thanks for the heads up Wolf. I've just skimmed through he articles (will read them later) but I find this whole matter rather disturbing. When I left Pittsburgh in 1993 to return to Portugal, I left my heart there (US) for all the good it did to me. Not any more, as I see the good ol' USofA slowly becoming a police state, with law abiding citizens being harassed and extorted by those who proclaim to "Serve and Protect", and being recruited to the prison system workforce. This saddens me deeply.

[Platapus]

I wonder if "law enforcement officers from three states" would be involved if "just" an ordinary citizen were killed?

[Aktungbby]

^Probably in this case; as on the map off the I-84- only 10 min. dash to the New York/New Jersey boarder getaway wise. Just to cut off the easterly escape route.

[Jeff-Groves]

An idiot might stay on 84 east yea.
Very few exits to take going that way once you cross into New York.
Even before you get to New York State Line it's a pain.
Now the back roads? Hard to cover and so many places to hunker down.
The western way is also a bad choice. Again, exits are slim and easily shut down.
The 84 escape exits would be the first to get blocked.
Given the terrain? A cross country escape route AKA Militry Ambush Tactics would be my choice.
I'd then avoid major routes as they get shut down quickly.
Back roads to a hide out. Avoiding Cabins and such for a back woods camp sight.
I'd then hump it out for a long ways only traveling at night.
4 days should put me nearly 50 or more miles away.

[Wolferz]

An idiot might stay on 84 east yea.
Very few exits to take going that way once you cross into New York.
Even before you get to New York State Line it's a pain.
Now the back roads? Hard to cover and so many places to hunker down.
The western way is also a bad choice. Again, exits are slim and easily shut down.
The 84 escape exits would be the first to get blocked.
Given the terrain? A cross country escape route AKA Militry Ambush Tactics would be my choice.
I'd then avoid major routes as they get shut down quickly.
Back roads to a hide out. Avoiding Cabins and such for a back woods camp sight.
I'd then hump it out for a long ways only traveling at night.
4 days should put me nearly 50 or more miles away.

Clearly by the accounts presented, this was a planned attack and the perp or perps used the same plan as the one illustrated above.

All that can be done now is to speculate on the motive. In all likelihood a crime of passion by an enraged husband or boyfriend who went all jelly.

A common theme since the dawn of time. You mess wid Grug's woman, Grug bash you. Grug not care if you Super Trooper.

[Jeff-Groves]

The motive is speculation at this point.
I know that area fairly well. It's back country for the most part.
Only a fool would attempt major routes as an escape as those would be shut down in a blink of the eye.
The cross country escape would give the time needed as proven in many other areas of operations.
Any trained persons from Boot camp through Advanced Infantry Training could tell one that.
You can't outrun a radio. All LEO's in Cars will hit the Major routes and shut them down.
They can't launch a wide search for the back country in time to stop a planned escape.

Given that details are being withheld? I don't see how the LEO's expect any info flowing in from possible outside sources.
I assume a retaliation/revenge attack at this point in time.

[Wolferz]

The motive is speculation at this point.
I know that area fairly well. It's back country for the most part.
Only a fool would attempt major routes as an escape as those would be shut down in a blink of the eye.
The cross country escape would give the time needed as proven in many other areas of operations.
Any trained persons from Boot camp through Advanced Infantry Training could tell one that.
You can't outrun a radio. All LEO's in Cars will hit the Major routes and shut them down.
They can't launch a wide search for the back country in time to stop a planned escape.

Given that details are being withheld? I don't see how the LEO's expect any info flowing in from possible outside sources.

Shot in the dark, hoping that someone familiar with the gunman will rat on them. If the shooter has any common sense, there won't be any bragging about it. Maybe Trooper Stadanko should have thought twice about messing with a military spouse. Pure conjecture, I know, but, the most likely motivating factor.

[August]

This could aldo have been revenge directed against the police in general rather than a specific officer. Maybe the two victims were just the first targets of opportunity that the killers saw after getting into their sniper position.

Problem is that while you can't outrun a radio a suspect description is still required. From what little I have read they don't have that yet.

[Jeff-Groves]

Details I've seen don't say they were Snipers.
I'll not give them that high of a mark as only one was killed.
Is sounds more like a spray and pray attack.
That points to amatures.
Send in even one AirBorne trained Trooper?
There would have been more DOA.
Send in a Sniper Trained Trooper? Less rounds. More bodies.

[Platapus]

This could aldo have been revenge directed against the police in general rather than a specific officer. Maybe the two victims were just the first targets of opportunity that the killers saw after getting into their sniper position.


I think that is a distinct possibility considering the recent news stories.

If we are lucky, they will brag about it on social media.

[Jeff-Groves]

If we are lucky, they will brag about it on social media.
I'd find that highly unlikely.
One doesn't just brag about killing Cops on Faceboook.
I actually find the details not released by LEO more upsetting.
Where did the Gun men fire from? How many shots? Etc.

As an example.
Given a 75 yard shot? I can take you with a freaking Air Gun and insure it's a death shot.
Time to reload, aim, and fire at same range? I'm sure I could kill 2.
The 2nd Guy would be going to the aid of the first so I know where he's gonna be.
I know this from past service!

I'm very suspicious when LEO's hide details in the name of 'On Going Investigations'.
If I can find details of shooter position, weapons used, rounds fired?
I can get a picture of the attackers.
Other then that? Good Luck Dudes!

[August]

I'm very suspicious when LEO's hide details in the name of 'On Going Investigations'

It takes time to do a crime scene investigation. Would you rather they hurriedly release information that might turn out to be incorrect? Let them do their job. If it hasn't been released in a month or two then there's reason to be suspicious.

[em2nought]

Mass media clamors to put bad news on the wire. It's in their nature.:nope:

Considering the rise of the police state and some of the underhanded things they've been doing to otherwise innocent folk, I'm surprised it isn't happening more often.

Law enforcement views itself as an army fighting a war against everything criminal.

http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2012/09/drug-interdiction-for-patrol.aspx

The only problem with this mindset is that all too often innocent people get caught in the crossfire and suddenly the police become judge and jury and will make your life a living hell, leaving you with little recourse or remedy short of a huge attorney bill.
How to lose a large sum of money through police interdiction...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/07/police-intelligence-targets-cash/

There have been numerous law abiding citizens who found themselves on the receiving end of an interdiction traffic stop and had their money seized, even when no contraband is found.

If you're going on a family vacation, don't carry cash.
If you're moving to another state, don't carry cash.
If you're headed somewhere to buy supplies for your restaurant, don't carry cash.

That's three examples of people who were interdicted by law enforcement and were perceived to be in the drug trade and had a large sum of money stolen from them by a police officer, thanks to their usage of increased powers from the Patriot Act. The seized cash gets sent to a Federal interagency sharing program where it gets divvied up and passed around.
I call it legalized highway robbery because maybe one in a hundred traffic stops are found to be actually hauling contraband. The other ninety-nine are just ordinary folk who don't trust banks or can't have a bank account for whatever reason. But, it's enough to arouse suspicion and levy an accusation.

Like I said, I'm surprised it isn't happening more often.:hmmm:

This is disturbing stuff because it's so hard to transfer money fast from bank to bank now, sometimes we just withdrawl the cash and deposit it again. I've been riding around with $10,000 cash on me before. I've paid for cashier's checks only to have them held for a few days. What's the point of a fracking cashier's check then? Burn it all down man, I'm not a criminal - our gov't is. :arrgh!:

[Jeff-Groves]

Looks like I wasn't far off on my thoughts don't it?

[Nippelspanner]

Mass media clamors to put bad news on the wire. It's in their nature.:nope:
They just give us what we want after all.
It is easy to blame the press for things like this. Then again, there are shows like "Cops" where we just wait for them to riddle that damn "crack-blackguy" with lots of bullets.

Or when they show car chases on the news?
Aren't we all waiting for the big dramatic crash and, hopefully, some fatalities? It's so exciting after all!

Or what about recorded "live!" suicides?

We love that. We want that.
They are just answering the call.

[Aktungbby]

They just give us what we want after all.
fatalities? It's so exciting after all! We love that. We want that.
They are just answering the call. "Ave, Imperator, morituri te salutant" NOTHIN GOOD?($$$):timeout: GOES OUTTA STYLE BBY!:down:vs :up: Literally!http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Jean-Leon_Gerome_Pollice_Verso.jpg/1024px-Jean-Leon_Gerome_Pollice_Verso.jpg
:Kaleun_Salivating:

[Nippelspanner]

"Ave, Imperator, morituri te salutant"
http://i.gyazo.com/eb41f6767cc6475d49e23b3aabea1b7a.png

[Sailor Steve]

They just give us what we want after all.
It is easy to blame the press for things like this. Then again, there are shows like "Cops" where we just wait for them to riddle that damn "crack-blackguy" with lots of bullets.
I'm not.

Or when they show car chases on the news?
Aren't we all waiting for the big dramatic crash and, hopefully, some fatalities? It's so exciting after all!
I'm not.

Or what about recorded "live!" suicides?

We love that. We want that.
They are just answering the call.
Maybe you do. I certainly don't.

[Nippelspanner]

<snip>
Steve, look at my post again, and notice that I put we in italic.
I thought the purpose of this was clear.

[Wolferz]

Though, as usual, nothing in the article states how they came to that conclusion.:-?
All they say is that the named suspect is a survivalist who wants to kill cops and commit mass murder. Again, no info on how they came to that conclusion. :roll:

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/police-barracks-ambush-suspect-sought-mass-murder

[Sailor Steve]

Steve, look at my post again, and notice that I put we in italic.
I thought the purpose of this was clear.
I understood that it's a general reference to the habits of the whole. I happen to disagree, and use myself as an example. I have watched dozens of airshows, hundreds of auto races. I have never once had the desire to see something bad happen. I find it hard to believe that everyone else watches only out of the hope to witness a catastrophe.

That's just my opinion on the subject.

[August]

Though, as usual, nothing in the article states how they came to that conclusion.:-?
All they say is that the named suspect is a survivalist who wants to kill cops and commit mass murder. Again, no info on how they came to that conclusion. :roll:

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/police-barracks-ambush-suspect-sought-mass-murder

Actually they did. From the linked article:

Authorities were led to Frein after a resident who was walking his dog in a wooded area two miles from the barracks spotted a vehicle slightly submerged in a pond and called 911. In the vehicle, police found shell casings that matched those found at the shooting scene, Noonan said.

[Jeff-Groves]

So we find an idiot that claims to be something he is not.
He's a bad shot, can't plan, can't sink a car, and leaves stuff behind.
Bet he'll regret that kind of dumb stuff once Bubba winks at him.
Here's a clue Dude. Watch TV shows!
:nope:

[Stealhead]

You do not have to be the best shooter to be deadly with a firearm. I read somewhere that majority of fatal shootings occur within 8 feet. I also fail to see what your claimed skills have to do this story.

[Wolferz]

I stand corrected on my previous assertion regarding the article.

Still, I can't believe that this suspect was dumb enough to leave evidence behind that would identify him. :roll: Unless that evidence was manufactured.:hmmm: So far it's been circumstantial and hearsay and the staties have already charged the guy with murder and a laundry list of other charges before even having him in custody. Did he call them and confess over the phone?
But, what does it matter? If they do find him, he'll not go down without a fight and will die in the process. Justice will be served. The gene pool cleaned of another turd and all will be right with the world.:-?

[Platapus]

I would opine that most convictions occur because the criminal did something dumb, evidence wise.

[Jeff-Groves]

You do not have to be the best shooter to be deadly with a firearm. I read somewhere that majority of fatal shootings occur within 8 feet. I also fail to see what your claimed skills have to do this story.
Thanks for reminding me why I left in the first place.
"I read somewhere"
Pretty much explains your point of view. I mean if you read it on the 'Net?
It must be true.

Should I prove my shooting skills to you? Nope. Don't think I'll bother.
You'd only claim the targets were rigged and I have people all over the U.S.A. that send AG's to me to work on.
Of course that's only me saying it's true and you'll find issues with that.
Have a nice day.

[Jeff-Groves]

Get in the groove. I asked to have the original account deleted.
Powers that be changed it.
Then I contacted Mods about just doing a new account as I don't want past awards and such.
Anything else you want to jump me for?
Like useing my real name and not hiding behind an account name?
Maybe because I am a caustic person with an opinion that doesn't match the normal?
I don't know. You pick one. THose that run this sight have all the power.
Bitch to them and I may be banned. Can't say it would bother me much.
Given the state of things here at home? I'd probably be better off if you made waves for me and got me shut down.
Then you could pat yourself on the back for doing a good job and go to sleep with a chushy feeling.
I'll state this once............
Subsim and all members have had an impact in my life that goes beyound words.
Membership here extends in other areas with other benifits that I can't even talk about without tears.
I am the Original Richard Cranium. I am someone that looks in the mirror every morning and likes what I see.
I also know I'm not perfect.
General Topics is a tuff area and you have the right to question me.
You should know by now that I'd not do a second account without approval.
In questioning me? I have to question your reason for doing so?

[Jeff-Groves]

You're a very happy chappy

Not really. Read the edited post above.
Of course you are always welcome to PM me.
I believe I'd enjoy a "Hi. I'm Tribesman and I'm a Richard" PM.
:)

[Jeff-Groves]

Good deal then Mate.
I'd still like a PM exchange.
That's only if you can put up with someone like me.
:D

[Stealhead]

Thanks for reminding me why I left in the first place.
"I read somewhere"
Pretty much explains your point of view. I mean if you read it on the 'Net?
It must be true.

Should I prove my shooting skills to you? Nope. Don't think I'll bother.
You'd only claim the targets were rigged and I have people all over the U.S.A. that send AG's to me to work on.
Of course that's only me saying it's true and you'll find issues with that.
Have a nice day.

I can provide a reliable link that proves my statement. Of course judging from your apparent attitude it must be incorrect.

What I find issue with is how you in this thread have done nothing more than brag about how skilled you are and how stupid the assailant must be. I never claimed that you could not shoot so I am unsure why you think I would want you to prove how good or bad you actually are. I have no interest in watching you shoot so it is a good thing you have no desire to show me.

At the end of the day you accuse me believing anything I read as the truth while you so far have provided no verifiable facts yourself on anything you claim which in effect has nothing much to do with the topic at hand.

The reason that I did not provide any link in my previous post was because I was tired and about to go to sleep and I was using my phone and I just felt lazy.

I suggest if you dislike me or what I have to say you make use of the ignore function. I will also pass on having a private message conversation with you.Just letting you know seeing as you keep pestering Tribesman.

http://www.guncite.com/Kleck-Hogan.html

Another source is a retired New York City PD homicide detective who a personal friend.

[Platapus]

Well this has turned out to be another swell GT thread. :nope:

[Onkel Neal]

They just give us what we want after all.
It is easy to blame the press for things like this. Then again, there are shows like "Cops" where we just wait for them to riddle that damn "crack-blackguy" with lots of bullets.

Or when they show car chases on the news?
Aren't we all waiting for the big dramatic crash and, hopefully, some fatalities? It's so exciting after all!

Or what about recorded "live!" suicides?

We love that. We want that.
They are just answering the call.

To a degree, that's true. It's why tabloids are still selling, why non-entities like the Kardashians and Miley Cyrus are on the CNN front page -- daily!


But I still blame the press, they are supposed to be educated, they could set and hold a higher standard.

Well this has turned out to be another swell GT thread. :nope:

Don't blame me, I just got here :) But I would be interested in ideas on improving the tone of GT. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=215627)

[Jeff-Groves]

I'm not going to ignore you. That would be rude on my part.
You do have good points in many threads and I do follow those.

I don't expect others to fully know my past or present shooting skills.
That is something I share in other forums.

[Jeff-Groves]

Well, There's Neal. If you want me banned, AGAIN, PM him!
:haha:

[Platapus]

But I still blame the press, they are supposed to be educated, they could set and hold a higher standard.



But they are educated and they do have a high standard. It is called profit.

It is a mistake to think that the news services today are the same as the news services of yesteryear. For decades news reporting was a profit loss for the corporation. There was no money in news reporting. It was offered as a service and the other programming paid for the costs of the news.

Then, it was discovered that news reporting can be entertainment and therefore sold as a profit making venue for the media corporation. No longer were other shows carrying the freight for the news shows. Now the news shows are expected to work at a profit.

So what is a well educated news media professional supposed to do? The focus on selling a product their customer's like.

That's why there is a Fox News and a MSNBC. Each has a customer base, and each service caters to that customer base. Good business practices.

If you hold the news media business to an unrealistic level of them providing a public service, it is not surprising when the news media falls in our vision.

We want (or think we want) the news service to do (public service), when in reality they are doing (make profit for the corporation).

If you look at them from a business viewpoint, the news media is doing quite well and are exceeding their standards...... it is just that their standards may be different from what we want.

[Jeff-Groves]

Well this has turned out to be another swell GT thread. :nope:

What can I do to improve it? LOL!!
Call Tribesman names? Insult Steelhead? Argue with Neal?
:haha:
And where the heck is Steve and Jim?

[Wolferz]

What can I do to improve it? LOL!!
Call Tribesman names? Insult Steelhead? Argue with Neal?
:haha:
And where the heck is Steve and Jim?

In the corner sharpening their truncheons I think.. :O:

Let's all not forget that...
"Insult can not be given unless it's taken"

Some times we have no choice but to agree to disagree.:yep:
Because you can't make your opponent be right every time.:arrgh!:

I blame the neo news media and their liberal malarkey and that harlot Jodie Foster. :/\\!!

[Sailor Steve]

Well, There's Neal. If you want me banned, AGAIN, PM him!
:haha:
Are you talking to yourself again? :O:

[Jeff-Groves]

Are you talking to yourself again? :O:

I try to talk to the voices in my head. But they speak Spanish or Romanian.
Not sure which.
Just wish they'd get a job!!
:O:

[Wolferz]

I try to talk to the voices in my head. But they speak Spanish or Romanian.
Not sure which.
Just wish they'd get a job!!
:O:

I think I see your problem...
Location, location, location.:03::O: