Worlds biggest sea port to be built by China and Russia

[TarJak]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-11/china-and-russia-to-build-major-seaport-report/5738036

Major development to be put up on Russia's coast on the Sea of Japan 18 km from the Chinese border. Freight volumes being talked about are massive.

Putin is certainly playing the China relationship in a way that appears to be well beyond US, EU or Australian governments. Being neighbours they can do that for things like ports, but in terms of getting closer economic ties than just buying consumer goods from China or exporting natural resources to it, the Russian's are really standing out from the crowd.

[ikalugin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation

[TarJak]

Thanks for the link. I'd heard of that previously but didn't make the link from the article.

[Jimbuna]

More potential assets to argue and fight over in the future.

Just jealous :O:

That should firmly tip the balance of power in the region.

[ikalugin]

Russia tried to sit on the fense between the Western and Asian integration. Recent events in Ukraine have firmly shifted Russia's focus towards the Asian integration, thus making Russian membership in such organisations more important.

[Skybird]

Russia tried to sit on the fense between the Western and Asian integration. Recent events in Ukraine have firmly shifted Russia's focus towards the Asian integration.
Not really, Moscow tried to close ties with China since some longer tjme already, but so far the price demanded by China to allow that, wwas considered to be too high. With the need to find replacements for the losses frum suffering relations with the West, Moscow could not afford to refuse all Chinese-demanded concessions and conditions anymore.

[Mr Quatro]

Only five responses to one of the biggest naval ports I have heard of in a long time.

Edward Teller (father of the H bomb) tried to interest the USN to build a port in Alaska back in the 1950's. We should've listened, but that's just a pet peeve.

Someone in Russia and China are listening and doing something ... They are friends, uh?

from ikalugin's link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation


Its six full members of the SCO account for 60% of the land mass of Eurasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasia) and its population is a quarter of the world's. With observer states included, its affiliates account for about half of the human species.
They got clout too :yep:

The SCO has established relations with the United Nations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations), where it is an observer in the General Assembly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly), the European Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union), Association of Southeast Asian Nations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Southeast_Asian_Nations) (ASEAN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Southeast_Asian_Nations)), the Commonwealth of Independent States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Independent_States) and the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_Islamic_Cooperation)

[Oberon]

The SCO is shaping up to be a major rival to western groups, whilst it is not a military organisation, there is an element of shared resources involved in it, exercises and that.
It's not inconceivable to consider the possibility of Russia and China creating a sort of new Pact to counter NATO military strength and projection.

[Armistead]

Is this really a case bigger is better?

[Stealhead]

The Sino-Russian relationship is unique to say the least. A good example of two nations with competing intrests getting along because share they common "foes" who are more dangerous to China and Russia.

Long term the military advantage between China and Russia will belong to the Chinese. China has the advantage that it avoids getting involved militarily in other parts of the world unlike Russia and the US. It would be interesting to the world in 2114. Look at all that changed from 1914 to 2114. One thing I can say without doubt is that empires never last forever and our empire (US) wont last 50 more years. The peak was during the Cold War one already fell in from within the other has lasted longer but also will fall from within.

[Jimbuna]

Is this really a case bigger is better?

I think yes...eventually.

[Platapus]

60 million tonnes per year! Wow.

I wonder if the road/rail infrastructure can handle that

[ikalugin]

Not really, Moscow tried to close ties with China since some longer tjme already, but so far the price demanded by China to allow that, wwas considered to be too high. With the need to find replacements for the losses frum suffering relations with the West, Moscow could not afford to refuse all Chinese-demanded concessions and conditions anymore.

Russia has been trying to get along with both West (WTO, OSCE and so on, a lot of cooperation with western companies such as Siemens, there has even been a notion of Russia-France-Germany alliance) and China (SOC, common economic projects in the far east) while building it's own integration project (одкб, ксор, customs union and so on), this is what I mean by "sitting on the fense".

Now due to the western sanctions over Ukraine we have to abandon the diversified approach, though we won't mind returning to status quo (as Lavrov said).

Steelhead, Russian Empire is still sort of here, at least in the minds of people such as Strelkov.

[Dread Knot]

I'm curious as to why an existing Far East port like Vladivostok couldn't upgraded to this purpose. Poor geography, location, infrastructure? :hmmm:

[Stealhead]

I'm curious as to why an existing Far East port like Vladivostok couldn't upgraded to this purpose. Poor geography, location, infrastructure? :hmmm:


That is a good question it does no provide an exact location beyond the fact that it is near North Korea and is on the Russian Sea of Japan Coast. Vladivostok is already in this same general area and is not far from the Chinese-Russian border so why not simply expand and modernize there?:hmmm:

I recon infrastructure though Vladivostok is the major Russian city in this region which would mean that it has the best available infrastructure. Of course this port will be used to transport natural gas so I assume that they chose an area other than Vladivostok but in the same region to facilitate the construction of pipe lines and facilities that perhaps would be too much trouble in Vladivostok which is already pretty crowded.

[Dread Knot]

That is a good question it does no provide an exact location beyond the fact that it is near North Korea and is on the Russian Sea of Japan Coast. Vladivostok is already in this same general area and is not far from the Chinese-Russian border so why not simply expand and modernize there?:hmmm:

I recon infrastructure though Vladivostok is the major Russian city in this region which would mean that it has the best available infrastructure. Of course this port will be used to transport natural gas so I assume that they chose an area other than Vladivostok but in the same region to facilitate the construction of pipe lines and facilities that perhaps would be too much trouble in Vladivostok which is already pretty crowded.


Thanks for the info. If I recall Vladivostok, like San Francisco is built on a series of steep hills, so maybe that is a limiting factor.

I'd also be curious to know if there is any environmental opposition. Here in the States, even shipping Wyoming coal through existing West coast seaports to China has gotten people angry and riled up. Building a whole new seaport would never get off the ground. Heck, we can't even get a pipeline built through the most conservative section of the country. :D

[Stealhead]

Well I was taking an educated guess from what I have seen in photos and on Google Earth Vladivostok looks to be fairly congested and not an ideal location.

I wonder if the gas lines will go through Russia or come down through China and end at the port I assume that they will run down through China that would be much more cost effective.Start in Russia and come down through China over to the port.

[ikalugin]

Vladivostok is indeed built on the hills (been there during the summer of 2013) and had some infrustructure isssues, though some of them were improved for the sammit/forum (forgot which one exactly) that happened there, so the airport and relevant stuff is quite well done as far as I could tell.

However you would use rail and pipelines anyway for the cargo port, so I dont think that the road network matters.

Rail network wise it is where double tracked Tran Siberian ends, it is connected by a rail to North Korea but not to China (and the local geography would mean that building a rail link to China would be somewhat costly).

Enviromental issues that would arise with the port wont matter I think, as Vladivostok has garbage disposal issues already amongst other things.