Oscar Pistorius trial: Murder verdicts ruled out.

[Jimbuna]

My lad received a visit from a shipmate (an Afrikaan) earlier this year and during a visit to my home I asked him what he thought the Pistorius trial outcome would be regarding the murder element of the charges....he replied "Not guilty" and went on to make reference to historical allegations regarding politics and corruption.

He certainly wasn't wrong about the trial verdict.

The judge in the Oscar Pistorius trial has ruled out all murder charges, but says he may still be guilty of culpable homicide (manslaughter).

Judge Thokozile Masipa said the prosecution had failed to prove the Olympic athlete killed his girlfriend deliberately in the toilet after a row, prompting tears from Mr Pistorius.

He cannot have foreseen killing whoever was behind the toilet door, she said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29143540

[TarJak]

Keep up old man: http://subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2241982&postcount=16 :O:

[Skybird]

Just read a summary of the judge's explanations so far. Some things she said already made me scratch my head in disbelief of her - as I would describe them - self-contradictions. I do not know what happened and I did not care for the whole court trial show - but her explanations now in parts do not convince me. I would even describe some of it as negligent (=nachlässig).

Has there been political pressure on the trial in South Africa, anyone knowing the conditions down there?

[Jimbuna]

Just read a summary of the judge's explanations so far. Some things she said already made me scratch my head in disbelief of her - as I would describe them - self-contradictions. I do not know what happened and I did not care for the whole court trial show - but her explanations now in parts do not convince me. I would even describe some of it as negligent (=nachlässig).

Has there been political pressure on the trial in South Africa, anyone knowing the conditions down there?

Well that is what my sons mate was alluding to in #1

[Jimbuna]

Keep up old man: http://subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2241982&postcount=16 :O:

Argh just noticed...merge or what?

[BossMark]

Bet that judge and her two helpers have now got very nice Swiss bank accounts.............

[Jimbuna]

He's not entirely off the hook yet...still awaiting a judgement on the lesser charge of culpable homicide.

[TarJak]

Personally can't see him escaping that. If he does it will be interesting to see the reaction in Pretoria.

[BossMark]

The South African justice system really is something else.

I wouldn't be surprised if Reeva Steenkamp's parents end up having to pay for a new bathroom door.

[Von Tonner]

The judge gave him a 5 year sentence for the CP, and a 3 year suspended sentence for the firing of a firearm. He could be out after 10 months but ONLY if the Correctional Services Department allows that. Good behaviour would be one of their considerations.

My take, he got off very lightly. The State may, and can appeal the judgement and sentence within 14 days - and might very well do so as they are not happy bunnies at the moment.

I fully accept that mercy, retribution, justice, case law, wants of society etc must play a part in sentencing.

My concern here is. What message ARE you sending to society regarding "you did the crime now pay the time".

Think about this scary scenario. Joe Bloggs wants to divorce his wife of say 20 or 30 years. BUT. It will cost him half his assets through a divorce court. (Our courts tend to split the total assets in half irrespective of who earned or contributed the money).

What does our Joe Bloggs now do. Instead of paying an enormous amount of money to a divorce lawyer - and even been granted a divorce - still has to give his wife half their estate in settlement, he rather waits till she gets the urge to go to the toilet in the middle of the night.

Oops, sorry judge, I thought she was an intruder.:nope:

[Jimbuna]

The parents of Reeva Steenkamp told the BBC they were happy with the sentence and relieved the case was over. The defence said it expected Pistorius to serve about 10 months in prison.

Defence lawyer Barry Roux said his client was expected to serve 10 months in prison, with the rest under house arrest.

Dup De Bruyn, a lawyer for the Steenkamp family, told Reuters that "justice was served", although he believed Pistorius would probably serve two years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29700457

[Skybird]

5 years for a taken life, and after earlier repeated display of inappropriate gun use. The judge must have lost her marbles.

And then: suspended penalties, 3 years prison for the earlier inappropriate use of a gun, turned into a 5 years suspended penalty. Of the other 5 years for the killing, he probably will serve a more or less significant amount of time outside the prison.

As a former psychologist I can only laugh about the concept of suspended penalties. Imagined implementation of stimuli is not the stimuli implemented in reality, regarding learning processes and neurla encoding, it is not just miles apart - it is two totally different things. Learning theorists and behaviorists know what I mean. Jurists simply do not know what they are talking about when defending suspended penalties, they just do an exercise in unworldly, abstract bean-counting that mistakes what reality is with one's own theory about what it is.

A suspended penalty is no penalty at all. Not even partially. Not by one bit. Only jurists rating bureaucratic formalities as more meaningful than reality and the way human mind, psyche and cognitions work, can argue with that. From a psychologist's POV, it is drivel.If you want to send a warning message to the subject, reduce the penalty accordingly, make it short. But NEVER suspend it. Regarding learning, it sends completely the opposite of the intended message. Heck, that is even hardwired in our brain's neural network- offenders do not learn from suspended penalties to take them as a warning: they must instead actively learn NOT to understand a suspended penalty as "no penalty". Which completely turns it ad absurdum.

I do not know what would anger me more here: the light amount of penalty, or the way the judge explained her reasons. Pistorius did not suffer a tragic accident, imo. And he was taken note of for his inappropriate gun usage before. I also have an issue with the court dismissing several indications that imo must be considered, but were not considered by the court.

If one does not see it as murder, i would have given him 8-10 years - and no early suspension or prison time cut short. A human life is a human life. The woman will not be given early release from her death. Her killing is not suspended at all.

However, it can be argued that it was murder. Murder by passion, maybe not planned by a long time in advance, but still: murder by passion, by hot-cooking temper - or ice-cold intention to give the impression of that hot emotional arousal, to get away with it. Pistorius seems to be a great stage talent, he showed it repeatedly.

To me, I think it was kind of a mix of both.

[Von Tonner]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29700457

Any and All of what anyone says could very well be true. He could spend 10 months...he could spend 2 years etc.

If I was a betting man however, given Oskar's attitude of entitlement he is going to piss the guards off big time during the course of his stay and kiss the possibility of 10 months goodbye.

"Excuse me Warden, this brown bread with rancid butter - does it not come with lobster, creme fraiche with chives?

[Aktungbby]

If I was a betting man however, given Oskar's attitude of entitlement he is going to piss the guards off big time during the course of his stay and kiss the possibility of 10 months goodbye.

"Excuse me Warden, this brown bread with rancid butter - does it not come with lobster, creme fraiche with chives? He'd better not! They'll take one (or both) of his legs away!:D

[vanjast]

6 months and he'll develop a 'mental sickness', and with appropriately paid correction officials help, he'll be happily living under 'house arrest'.
Jim... your son's friend is correct about the corruption, etc..

Watch this space..
Oscar HAS got away with murder !!
:down:

[BossMark]

Look on the bright side Oscar Pistorius.

If you lived in a council house, you would be released before they get round to fixing your door.

[vanjast]

I can't help thinking that Oscar will be 'fixed', either inside or outside.

Reeva's parents for what they say to the media.. are not happy with this verdict. I certainly would not be, that guy's a slimeball IMHO.
Funny enough.. he's friends of my sister-in-laws friend... and they party together.... fark!!
:arrgh!:

[Platapus]

What I don't understand is the three year sentence for the other gun charges. It is suspended for five years unless he has another gun related crime.

Why would Oscar be allowed to own any guns after this? I would have thought it was a given that he be denied any ability to own/posses any fire arms because he is a Felon.

[Cybermat47]

Why would Oscar be allowed to own any guns after this? I would have thought it was a given that he be denied any ability to own/posses any fire arms because he is a Felon.



Agreed. You'd think that committing a crime would mean people wouldn't want him to have a lethal weapon anymore.

[Feuer Frei!]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29700457


Parents happy with the sentence?

WTF? Funny that.

[Subnuts]

Whew, good thing he was a celebrity. :smug:

[vanjast]

Parents happy with the sentence?

WTF? Funny that.

The problem was that the prosecution went after the wrong charges, 'Intent'. This was impossible to prove, without and admittance from Oscar and he certainly was not going to do that.

They should have gone for what he admitted to, killing her accidental or not. It would have been an open and shut case, and the sentence probably would have been harsher... but now we have rich 'Hollywood lawyers' and I'm sure they're happy either way.
:nope:

[Jimbuna]

Jim... your son's friend is correct about the corruption, etc..


Looks like he was....I'd like to meet him again and ask his opinion of the verdict but whilst my son is currently on study leave, his friend (Jan) is on a ship half a world (literally) away.

[BossMark]

Just when Oscar Pistotius thought it couldn't get any worse.

He gets allocated the top bunk.

[Von Tonner]

Looks like he was....I'd like to meet him again and ask his opinion of the verdict but whilst my son is currently on study leave, his friend (Jan) is on a ship half a world (literally) away.

I am not saying there was no corruption. But to make the claim or assert there was please eloborate where this corruption took place.

Gerrie Nel, the prosecutor in this case was himself arrested one night in front of his family and thrown in jail on trumped up charges by the state. I cannot see a man of his stature ever condoning or turning a blind eye to injustice. Nor have I read anything that would make suspect the integrity of Judge Masipa. I do not agree with some of her findings but that does not mean she is corrupt.

The thing that I have come to realise in this case is what a former Supreme Court Judge said after sentencing. "Oscar's worst nightmares have been realised"

Now think about that statement and replace Oscar with a hardened individual with absolutely no regard for human life or jail time. In other words, the life outside of a prison is far worse. No meals, no medical, no recreation, no roof over his head - in short - he lives in the gutter and knows no other type of quality of life. Such a sentence would mean absolutely peanuts to him for the same crime.

But to the cloistered, high life-style, and comfort zone that Oscar is accustomed to - even two months is hardship - let alone 5 years

I believe Oscar is a dangerous person. He is extremely egotistical, huge self - importance, arrogant sense of entitlement which, together with many other unsavoury personality traits makes him his own worst enemy.

While I believe there has been a travesty of justice in the sentence handed down and in the penalty accorded, (not because of any so called corruption of the judicial process) this guy will not at all appreciate the benefit of doubt that has been accorded to him and will, in his arrogance, fall foul of the law once again. I just hope no one gets hurt in the process.

[Jimbuna]

I am not saying there was no corruption. But to make the claim or assert there was please eloborate where this corruption took place.



I think the best person to ask that of is the individual who originally made the statement...wherever he might be 'work wise'.

[vanjast]

I am not saying there was no corruption. But to make the claim or assert there was please eloborate where this corruption took place.
From experience, the corruption becomes evident over time. To try say prove it now is obviously a near impossibility... but from past experience of the South African, or any African system, it's more or less guaranteed :03:

[BossMark]

Oscar Pistorius is so depressed in the prison hospital wing, he's been put on suicide watch.

Whenever he goes to the bathroom, a nurse knocks on the door to check he's okay.

Talk about rubbing it in.

[Von Tonner]

It looks ever increasing like an appeal is coming.

Witwatersrand University law Prof James Grant has been approached by the prosecutor in the case Gerrie Nel on advice on an appeal.

"In my view... that judgment isn't very well reasoned and I also don't think it would stand up to constitutional scrutiny," Wits law professor James Grant said.

Grant said prosecutor Gerrie Nel had asked for his advice on whether the State should appeal.

"I can confirm Advocate Nel has consulted me for advice and assistance if he appeals. I have advised that he should appeal and agreed to assist," he wrote earlier on social networking site Twitter.

He said Nel and the NPA had yet to decide whether to appeal.

"No doubt many other people are also being consulted and many things considered," Grant said in another tweet.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Pistorius-judgment-not-well-reasoned-expert-20141024?utm_source=news24-pm-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletters

[Jimbuna]

However, the State could encounter a "hurdle" because of the Supreme Court of Appeal case, State vs Seekoei, which limited the State's right of appeal.

The 1982 Seekoei case held that the State could not appeal if a conviction was made on a competent verdict.

"It [the Pistorius judgment] was a competent verdict, he was acquitted of murder and convicted on a competent verdict," Grant said.

Not so straightforward then :hmmm:

[Von Tonner]

No surprises. An appeal on verdict, sentence and on the acquittal of possession of ammunition. That should keep the little turd awake at night if nothing else does. Apparently he is short of 10 million rand's on his legal bill with no prospects of settling it.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/NPA-to-appeal-Oscar-sentencing-conviction-reports-20141027?utm_source=news24-pm-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletters

[Platapus]

I hope they put a garnishment of future monies against him. We don't want Oscar to write a book "how I did it" and keep the profits.

Actually, living the rest of his life in poverty would be a good punishment for him. Every single day of his life he can think of everything he blew away... including his GF.

[vanjast]

Agreed...
He will write a book as he, unbelievably, still has a lot of fans, and the media are hoe's to this type of thing.

From what my outlaws said, is that he seems very arrogant, and some woman just fall for him..even now. :o

According to the latest sunday paper, Reeva's mom said that Reeva never had sex with oscar, and was going to break up with him. This may be mother/daughter confidentiality, mother's wishful thinking, or newspaper sensationalism, but in any case it could very well be the underlying cause of what transpired.

?

[August]

I hope they put a garnishment of future monies against him. We don't want Oscar to write a book "how I did it" and keep the profits.

Actually, living the rest of his life in poverty would be a good punishment for him. Every single day of his life he can think of everything he blew away... including his GF.

You mean like "If I Did It" by OJ Simpson? I don't think he got any profits though...