Australian subs may be built in Japan

[TarJak]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-09/industry-look-for-answers-around-sa-submarine-contracts/5729052

This may just be a storm in a teapot, but there are some irate businesses in South Australia that there is no clarity yet on what is being built where.

One the one hand I get the government's view that it will be cheaper and faster to get the hulls built in Japan then assembled and fitted out here but on the other hand the jobs and industry skills etc being lost are disappointing.

The bigger puzzle for me is once built, how we intend to crew 12 of the things when we struggle to crew the 6 Collins class subs we have now.

[Aktungbby]

THIS IS ACTUALLY BRILLIANT PLANNING on the part of the Australian Navy! They should be home-ported ("forward deployed"is the actual term) there as well just to piss off 'whom it should concern' :x the most- time and space wise! :sunny: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=214616 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=214616) Welcome to your new base at Sasebo or Yokosuka BBY!:up::salute:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Seventh_Fleet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Seventh_Fleet)

[TarJak]

I find our media's bleating about what how this move will tick the Chinese off both humorous and disgusting.

[Stealhead]

It will be the final straw in Sino-Aussie relations no doubt.

[magicstix]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-09/industry-look-for-answers-around-sa-submarine-contracts/5729052

This may just be a storm in a teapot, but there are some irate businesses in South Australia that there is no clarity yet on what is being built where.

One the one hand I get the government's view that it will be cheaper and faster to get the hulls built in Japan then assembled and fitted out here but on the other hand the jobs and industry skills etc being lost are disappointing.

The bigger puzzle for me is once built, how we intend to crew 12 of the things when we struggle to crew the 6 Collins class subs we have now.

If the businesses wanted to work on the new sub, they should've done a better job on the Collins class, amirite? :P

The crew issue is a major one, it's one of the big reasons only 2 of the 6 Collins subs are able to be fielded at any given time (the other of course being leaks :D).

[TarJak]

Yes they should have. They should also have looked at ways to make this build cheaper to be more competitive to the Japanese bid.

The crew issue is the biggie. I'm not seeing any strategies being put into place to address it either other than chucking a few extra bucks to submariners for their service.:down:

[Jimbuna]

The bigger puzzle for me is once built, how we intend to crew 12 of the things when we struggle to crew the 6 Collins class subs we have now.

Beat me to it :03:

Only good point I could make toward our own decision builders is the fact that thus far they won't have RN warships built abroad....better remain steadfast on that should Scotland decide to leave the union.

[TarJak]

Sounds like the build decision will be March next year anyway. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-09/brissenden-cheaper-foreign-subs-will-be-a-tough-sell-in-sa/5731266

Might just be some union agitation going on. Bill Shortarse got up and made some funny noises in front of some of his old union cronies today which made me giggle a bit. Other than that everyone in government is apparently saying "no decision has been made", which of course is code for, "we're taking the work where we can afford it and bugger the unions because we are the government." From the sound of it the hull construction is the only thing happening overseas, so other than some sheet metal workers, there is unlikely to be any significant job losses over the tender anyway. From my perspective it all sounds a little fishy and my just be a distraction from other things that are going on, like deciding to go to war again in Iraq for no really good reason or not getting their rubbish budget passed in the Senate.

Why can;t we get some good politicians?:har:

[Skybird]

Can't you lease the boats you cannot crew to the Chinese? You get money, they get boats, diplomatic ties improve - a double win situation for all!

:D

[TarJak]

Can't you lease the boats you cannot crew to the Chinese? You get money, they get boats, diplomatic ties improve - a double win situation for all!

:D

:hmmm: That might just work.:D

[Feuer Frei!]

"Australian subs may be built in Japan"

Who cares?

The economy?

I'm sure the 6.-something unemployment rate won't take a hit.

Plus the Japs know how to build stuff.

[Jimbuna]

I'm surprised they aren't after some of our remaining T Class boats....going cheap, we can no longer afford them.

[ikalugin]

Now, immagine if Australia got German, French (other European) or worse still - Russian vessels.

[vienna]

So, will, they be built by Tamiya, Hasegawa, or some other kit company?...


<O>

[nikimcbee]

So, will, they be built by Tamiya, Hasegawa, or some other kit company?...


<O>
:har::yeah:

http://internetmodeler.com/2002/july/ships/ship_typea-13.JPG

Cool! Midget submarines.
http://listcrux.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/3129324_ori.jpg

[ikalugin]

By the way is there any actual info on the submarine type in question, for example anything on its sonar suit?

[nikimcbee]

...and in a twist of irony. The first time they (the Aussies) put their new submarine in drydock, they found this on the keel.

http://us.123rf.com/450wm/ints/ints1303/ints130300015/18627939-made-in-china-rubber-stamp.jpg

[ikalugin]

I thought Collins were a European venture? Still, is there a place where one could read an educated discussion about the various submarine types offered to Australia?

[nikimcbee]

What Australia ordered:
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/reminator3/imageothers/divedive/divediverob.jpg



What they received:
http://www.kk.org/streetuse/Chinesesub.jpg

[Stealhead]

What they received:
http://www.kk.org/streetuse/Chinesesub.jpg

Seems legit.

[TarJak]

By the way is there any actual info on the submarine type in question, for example anything on its sonar suit?

I thought Collins were a European venture? Still, is there a place where one could read an educated discussion about the various submarine types offered to Australia?

As a final decision on what we're getting hasn't officially been made and won't get announced until the Defence White Paper is released in March anything you look at now is officially still speculation. The kerfuffle happening now indicates that a version of the Japanese Soryu class is being preferred. http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/sssoryuclasssubmarin/

No word on systems yet.

[vienna]

Oh, good lord: TarJak's developed a split personality! Holy, mitosis, Batman!!... :D


<O>

[nikimcbee]

No word on systems yet.
xbox?
PS4?
Wii?

A bottle of Fosters (Aussie word for beer if you didn't know):D says it's Nintendo 64.:/\\k:

[TarJak]

We're much more advanced than that. Android FTW.:up:

[nikimcbee]

Plus, when you guys show up the US Navy at the next naval exercise, instead of playing a Men at Work song, you can play this victory song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHT382x8Foo

What am I talking about?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Kv4rqR6RQ

[TarJak]

:haha:

[Buddahaid]

We're much more advanced than that. Android FTW.:up:

ah so it's this then.
http://dl.maximumpc.com/galleries/lostgadgets/GilliganSub_405.jpg

[magicstix]

I'm surprised they aren't after some of our remaining T Class boats....going cheap, we can no longer afford them.

Aussies won't take those for the same reason they decided against trying to get LA class subs from the US: nukyular power is scary boogieman.

[TarJak]

WE have too many greenie tree huggers to go nuke. We can't even get more than the one reactor built on dry land and that is purely for research and nuclear medicine isotope production only.

But we're one of the worlds biggest producers of Uranium, which we sell to most of the bug buyers, so go figure.

[ikalugin]

The article is sadly not very informative, for example it is not clear as to what kind of bow or flank arrays the sub actually gets. From what I could find it has two long/thin low frequency flank arrays and small aperture cylindrical bow, a fairly common set up now a days.

I do wonder though why a large aperture bow/flank arrays are not featured though, like on price 677.

[TarJak]

Thank depends on what systems the client installs on them. I'd suggest some of that is classified, depending on the client.

[ikalugin]

Well the presence and type of the various sonar arrays can be derived from the dry dock pictures, this is true especially for the flank arrays (you can estimate their geometrical dimensions and to lesser extend type).

Ie there is a lot of verifiable open information to get a deep insight into the general architecture/design practices, it just needs to be processed. For example, here you could see the bow sonar of the pr.677:
http://militaryrussia.ru/i/284/217/tmVEdiv5On.jpg
http://militaryrussia.ru/i/284/217/blyU8QHq90.jpg

[d@rk51d3]

WE have too many greenie tree huggers to go nuke. We can't even get more than the one reactor built on dry land and that is purely for research and nuclear medicine isotope production only.


Maybe we could take a leaf from the Japanese whaling handbook.....


......these nuclear subs are purely for scientific research. (and the administration of some bad medicine)..

[TarJak]

Great idea. We could go nukes on nuke subs then purely for research purposes.

[Jimbuna]

If the US built non nukes it stands to reason you'd probably get them from them because most of your military stuff is US in origin :hmmm:

[TarJak]

Possible. But we buy gear from all over including our own design and builds that get exported.

Saw this on TV last night and :haha:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-11/clarke-and-dawe--australian-voting-to-be/5736650

[Jimbuna]

Possible. But we buy gear from all over including our own design and builds that get exported.

Saw this on TV last night and :haha:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-11/clarke-and-dawe--australian-voting-to-be/5736650

Who said Aussies hadn't a humorous side :)

[TarJak]

Well if I'm honest Clarke is a kiwi.

[Jimbuna]

Well if I'm honest Clarke is a kiwi.

You, honest? :o

The joke thread is over there :O:

[TarJak]

Har de har har!:stare:

[nikimcbee]

Har de har har!:stare:

Point: Team Buna.:/\\k:

[Jimbuna]

Point: Team Buna.:/\\k:

:smug:

[Wolferz]

And here I thought we were the only ones who elected morons to office.:haha:

Double speaking as if he had two mouths.:up:

At least the host knew when to cut it short.:shucks:

[ikalugin]

I wonder if Australia would get a better deal with Kilos - only 360 million USD per boat.

[nikimcbee]

If you're hard up for cash, I hear Ukraine has subs for cheap.

http://iliketowastemytime.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/blog_image/ukrainiansubmarine-21.jpg

[Aktungbby]

^A team of sheep-shearers 'll get that wooly mess right!:haha: