WW2 PoW stuff:

[Eichhörnchen]

I'm a real sucker for anything PoW: really enjoy pc games Prisoner of War and The Great Escape, all the films plus no end of books. Does anyone remember Hogan's Heroes? (I know they're out on DVD but not sure whether in UK-playable format).

In which film was a character heard to say "Why don't we take our time and get the lot?"

[Joefour]

I'm a real sucker for anything PoW: really enjoy pc games Prisoner of War and The Great Escape, all the films plus no end of books. Does anyone remember Hogan's Heroes? (I know they're out on DVD but not sure whether in UK-playable format).

In which film was a character heard to say "Why don't we take our time and get the lot?"

I'm dating myself here, but I used to watch it on the network when I was a kid. I'm going to guess that the quote you are referring to might be attributed to Newkirk, played by Richard Dawson.

[Eichhörnchen]

Sorry, my fault: I should've stuck that quote on at the beginning, not after mentioning Hogan's Heroes. The quote is from a PoW movie (in black & white, to narrow it down a bit).

I used to watch it as a kid, too, so that's both of us. And the quote I remember most from that is "I know NUSSING!"

[Joefour]

Sorry, my fault: I should've stuck that quote on at the beginning, not after mentioning Hogan's Heroes. The quote is from a PoW movie (in black & white, to narrow it down a bit).

I used to watch it as a kid, too, so that's both of us. And the quote I remember most from that is "I know NUSSING!"

Sergeant Schultz!
Remember 'Raus 'Raus 'Raus! (Out, Out, Out!)?

[Eichhörnchen]

Yes, that was the guy, and the Kommandant was Colonel Klink as I recall. Have you ever played the pc games? There's a great chapter in "Prisoner of War"where you get dumped in Colditz.

I came across a pictorial plate showing the place in an antique shop in Wragby a short while back and my first thought was "Who on earth would want this?" Second was "Who on earth could've wanted to make it?" I think it's quite likely it came from the castle gift shop during the communist era; it was a horrible brown monochrome...

[Bilge_Rat]

trivia:

Werner Klemperer who played Colonel Klink was jewish and escaped Germany with his family in the 1930s.

Several of the actors in "The Great Escape" had been POWs in WW2:

- Donald Pleasance was in the RAF and held in a German POW camp.

- Hannes Messemer who played the Camp commander had been a POW of the Russians;

- Til Kiwe who played one of the German Guards had a been held in an American POW camp. He actually did excape a few times, once making it all the way from Colorado to St. Louis.

- Hans Reiser who played a Gestapo Agent had also been held by the U.S.A.

[Joefour]

Yes, that was the guy, and the Kommandant was Colonel Klink as I recall. Have you ever played the pc games? There's a great chapter in "Prisoner of War"where you get dumped in Colditz.

I came across a pictorial plate showing the place in an antique shop in Wragby a short while back and my first thought was "Who on earth would want this?" Second was "Who on earth could've wanted to make it?" I think it's quite likely it came from the castle gift shop during the communist era; it was a horrible brown monochrome...

I didn't even know there were PC games about POWs. I've always been interested in flight, and the past 6 mos., SUBMARINES.
If you don't mind me asking, why the handle Eichhornchen? Eichhörnchen is squirrel auf Deutsch.

[Aktungbby]

trivia:

Werner Klemperer who played Colonel Klink was jewish and escaped Germany with his family in the 1930s.

Several of the actors in "The Great Escape" had been POWs in WW2:

- Donald Pleasance was in the RAF and held in a German POW camp.

- Hannes Messemer who played the Camp commander had been a POW of the Russians;

- Til Kiwe who played one of the German Guards had a been held in an American POW camp. He actually did excape a few times, once making it all the way from Colorado to St. Louis.

- Hans Reiser who played a Gestapo Agent had also been held by the U.S.A.

ya fergot one; John Banner who played Sergeant Schultz:" John Banner, who achieved television immortality for his portrayal of the Luftwaffe prison-camp guard Sergeant Schultz in the TV series Hogan's Heroes (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058812?ref_=nmbio_mbio) (1965), was born on January 28, 1910 in Vienna, the capital of what was then the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The 28-year-old Banner, who was Jewish, was forced to abandon his homeland after the 1938 Anschluss (union) between Nazi Germany and Austria, which occurred while he was engaged in a tour of Switzerland with an acting company. Unable to return to Austria due to Hitler's anti-Semitic policies of persecution, he immigrated to the United States as a political refugee.

Soon after reaching the States, Banner -- who was completely ignorant of the English language -- was hired to emcee a musical revue. He had to learn his lines phonetically, but the total immersion paid off in that he rapidly picked up English. His accent and "Nordic" look ironically meant that he was typecast in several films as Nazis during the 1940s. He survived the war playing the very villains who were murdering his family who had been left behind in Austria, all of whom perished in concentration camps. He died in Vienna age 63 in 1973 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c8/John_Banner_as_Schultz.jpg/225px-John_Banner_as_Schultz.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John_Banner_as_Schultz.jpg)

[Eichhörnchen]

trivia:

Werner Klemperer who played Colonel Klink was jewish and escaped Germany with his family in the 1930s.

Several of the actors in "The Great Escape" had been POWs in WW2:

- Donald Pleasance was in the RAF and held in a German POW camp.

- Hannes Messemer who played the Camp commander had been a POW of the Russians;

- Til Kiwe who played one of the German Guards had a been held in an American POW camp. He actually did excape a few times, once making it all the way from Colorado to St. Louis.

- Hans Reiser who played a Gestapo Agent had also been held by the U.S.A.

Wow! The only part of that I'd already learned was that Werner Klemperer was jewish...

[Eichhörnchen]

I didn't even know there were PC games about POWs. I've always been interested in flight, and the past 6 mos., SUBMARINES.
If you don't mind me asking, why the handle Eichhornchen? Eichhörnchen is squirrel auf Deutsch.

How on earth did you get an umlaut on your "o", Joefour??

I picked "Eichhornchen" because (so it's said) the Germans used to demand its pronunciation by prisoners they suspected were British. It's apparently one of the words we find hardest to pronounce correctly. Mind you, I can't say "squirrel" after a couple of tots...

[Eichhörnchen]

Years ago, when my second home was the pub, a bunch of like-minded pals and I determined we would get hold of the board game "Escape From Colditz" and immerse ourselves in some regular alcohol-fuelled adventure. The beer-goggles would have proved a hindrance to escape, I'm sure, but then the Germans wouldn't have been able to shoot straight either. I don't think any of us would've got far.

My mate Keith said he would only play if he could be the Germans. Fair enough, but we never got around to it. Has anyone played the game and was it any good? It probably would have still been much more fun than the best pc game, and we might even have finished the evening locked up for real...

[Joefour]

How on earth did you get an umlaut on your "o", Joefour??

I picked "Eichhornchen" because (so it's said) the Germans used to demand its pronunciation by prisoners they suspected were British. It's apparently one of the words we find hardest to pronounce correctly. Mind you, I can't say "squirrel" after a couple of tots...

I have had a terrible time trying to get links in here before, so just do a search for "german ALT codes" (No, has nothing to do with Enigma, He, He) I'm assuming you are on a British keyboard which should act the same as an American one. Hold down the alt key and at the same time type in 0246 on the NUMLOCK keys. Doesn't work with the numerals at the top of the keyboard. You will get an ö. In fact, these ASCII code keys will produce punctuation for all the major european tongues.
The other alternative is to spell the old way they did in german before they came up with the umlaut-means "sound change". ae=ä, oe=ö, ue=ü, etc. You will see this reflected in some old german family names, like the poet Goethe, pronounced Göte. Another good excample is the family here in the NW that sells forest products. Weyerhaeuser. Everybody here calls it "Werhauzer" but the correct german pronunciation would be "Vyerhoizer".

As far as passwords go...
Sounds kinda like what the Americans did in the Pacific, with passwords like "Lalapalooza". A Japanese voice out in the bush would have a helluva time with that one unless he was American born.

[Eichhörnchen]

I take my Hut off to you, Joefour. I hadn't put all this together before, despite doing German rather than French in school; I learned a lot this evening, thanks!

When I'm feeling brave enough I'll have a go at that keyboard thing.

Windtalkers was a good film (movie, now I know where you're from) too, wasn't it? My old dad was a Welshman, and even we couldn't tell what he was talking about half the time; I don't think the British Army ever cottoned on to that idea."Was ist dies "Cariad Bach?" Welsh windtalkers: what a thought... (He was in the Royal Welch Fusiliers in NW Europe, 1944-5 and yes, that IS how they spell it).

[Joefour]

I take my Hut off to you, Joefour. I hadn't put all this together before, despite doing German rather than French in school; I learned a lot this evening, thanks!

When I'm feeling brave enough I'll have a go at that keyboard thing.

Windtalkers was a good film (movie, now I know where you're from) too, wasn't it? My old dad was a Welshman, and even we couldn't tell what he was talking about half the time; I don't think the British Army ever cottoned on to that idea."Was ist dies "Cariad Bach?" Welsh windtalkers: what a thought... (He was in the Royal Welch Fusiliers in NW Europe, 1944-5 and yes, that IS how they spell it).

If the British military had used Welsh or for that matter, Gaelic as a code language and encrypted it, that would have really confounded the hell out of german intelligence. As it was, the B-Dienst was reading almost as much of Allied coms as Bletchley Park was reading Enigma. The problem was that the High Command had their head up their Arsch in insisting that Enigma was unbreakable.

Windtalkers was an excellent movie. By the way, remember The Tom Jones show? Forgive me if I screw up badly with the spelling but... Gwyn eich byd a dymunaf i chwi lawenydd bob amser!

[mako88sb]

Talking about Colditz reminds me of a movie I seen ages ago. Must be about 40 yrs since I seen it and like the pow's at Colditz, they decided to build a glider. Unlike the actual facts, they managed to launch it. I can't remember much else about it such as if anybody actually escaped. One thing I do remember is that they were trying to find some way to cover the frame and ended up using their breakfast porridge to help with that. Obviously they were using some type of fabric and I'm not sure what exactly the porridge was supposed to do. I just remember the camp cook saying he didn't understand what was going on because all the prisoners were coming back for seconds when usually they couldn't stand it.

I had searched IMDB about a year ago under pow movies but nothing came up. Just tried under google and found the movie I'm talking about:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066833/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

I'll have to see if I can track down a copy.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

That looks interesting, I do know that the glider was built and even displayed for a period of time after the Americans liberated Colditz and then afterwards when Colditz ended up as part of East Germany the glider vanished, some say the Russians burned it, other say it's still hidden there but who knows. In the game Prisoner of War they got the location of where the glider was constructed but it was launched in the wrong direction:doh:.

@Eichhornchen you probably can get Hogan's Heroes on DVD in the UK although I'm really not sure you could get it the Region 2 format, you could change the regions with Windows Media Player but it's limited to 5 times.

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj529/zacharybaty/vlcsnap-2012-09-04-23h48m13s192_zps4d4e7e8d.png

[TarJak]

Years ago, when my second home was the pub, a bunch of like-minded pals and I determined we would get hold of the board game "Escape From Colditz" and immerse ourselves in some regular alcohol-fuelled adventure. The beer-goggles would have proved a hindrance to escape, I'm sure, but then the Germans wouldn't have been able to shoot straight either. I don't think any of us would've got far.

My mate Keith said he would only play if he could be the Germans. Fair enough, but we never got around to it. Has anyone played the game and was it any good? It probably would have still been much more fun than the best pc game, and we might even have finished the evening locked up for real...
I played it with some mates as a kid back in the late '70's. It was a bit of fun. The series Colditz was pretty fun as well. I sat and watched the whole lot a few months ago on youtube. Brought back some good memories of watching it when it was first on TV.

[Eichhörnchen]

Yes I remember him well, but you got me, Pal: I speak about as much Welsh as your average Berliner. Cariad Bach (and I'm not even sure if THAT'S the correct spelling) means something like "dearest love" and used as a term of endearment. Well, my dad was at the checkout in a supermarket in Pwllheli once and asked the girl if he could have a carrier-bag (this is true, by the way). Well the way he used to speak English, he'd have said something like "currier bug". She gave him what my Mum would call an "Old-Fashioned Look".

[Eichhörnchen]

If the British military had used Welsh or for that matter, Gaelic as a code language and encrypted it, that would have really confounded the hell out of german intelligence. As it was, the B-Dienst was reading almost as much of Allied coms as Bletchley Park was reading Enigma. The problem was that the High Command had their head up their Arsch in insisting that Enigma was unbreakable.

Windtalkers was an excellent movie. By the way, remember The Tom Jones show? Forgive me if I screw up badly with the spelling but... Gwyn eich byd a dymunaf i chwi lawenydd bob amser!

Sorry, Joefour, I didn't realise this had become so popular and we'd turned the page: see above for my reply...

[Eichhörnchen]

I can't say 'shibboleth' after two tots myself!:()1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth) :har:

I just read this and I suppose we shouldn't be at all surprised that those Gileadites thought of it first, but the BELGIANS?

[Eichhörnchen]

Talking about Colditz reminds me of a movie I seen ages ago. Must be about 40 yrs since I seen it and like the pow's at Colditz, they decided to build a glider. Unlike the actual facts, they managed to launch it. I can't remember much else about it such as if anybody actually escaped. One thing I do remember is that they were trying to find some way to cover the frame and ended up using their breakfast porridge to help with that. Obviously they were using some type of fabric and I'm not sure what exactly the porridge was supposed to do. I just remember the camp cook saying he didn't understand what was going on because all the prisoners were coming back for seconds when usually they couldn't stand it.

I had searched IMDB about a year ago under pow movies but nothing came up. Just tried under google and found the movie I'm talking about:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066833/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

I'll have to see if I can track down a copy.

Yes! Yes! I'd forgotten all about that movie but I did see it too, YEARS AGO. Now I gotta have it! The porridge was supposed to "dope" the fabric and make it taut. Thanks for finding that for me, chum...

[Eichhörnchen]

That looks interesting, I do know that the glider was built and even displayed for a period of time after the Americans liberated Colditz and then afterwards when Colditz ended up as part of East Germany the glider vanished, some say the Russians burned it, other say it's still hidden there but who knows. In the game Prisoner of War they got the location of where the glider was constructed but it was launched in the wrong direction:doh:.

@Eichhornchen you probably can get Hogan's Heroes on DVD in the UK although I'm really not sure you could get it the Region 2 format, you could change the regions with Windows Media Player but it's limited to 5 times.

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj529/zacharybaty/vlcsnap-2012-09-04-23h48m13s192_zps4d4e7e8d.png

You're right about the glider, but there is a one-third scale replica hanging in a museum at East Kirkby airfield, Lincolnshire. I think the camouflage was a blue Gingham-Check.

I've seen the DVDs on sale and, as you say, I'd have to use that special thingy to switch regions (is that still included in Windows 8?) No matter, since there would probably be too many discs to convert.

[Eichhörnchen]

I played it with some mates as a kid back in the late '70's. It was a bit of fun. The series Colditz was pretty fun as well. I sat and watched the whole lot a few months ago on youtube. Brought back some good memories of watching it when it was first on TV.

I got the boxed-set. I remember my Mum (again...) had a thing about the German security officer. Wasn't he about the only German actor in that? He looked the part, though. And in the way that some of these characters were fictionalised for film and TV, I think he was loosely based on a bloke called Reinhold Eggers (are you reading this, Reinhold?) who himself wrote a book.
By all accounts he was a pretty good Eggers, too...

[TarJak]

This is supposed to be a photo of the original glider:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/04/article-2183626-0041D95300000258-709_634x409.jpg

[Eichhörnchen]

Yes, got that photo; you can go up into this roofspace and work on the glider in the pc game, as pointed out by Kptlt. Hellmut above. They did a pretty good rendition of the castle, with lots of places to sneak about in...

[Eichhörnchen]

(Published in 1973)

I had a friend who owned a second-hand bookstore and he regarded me through half-closed eyes once as he dropped another "kriegie" volume into my bag and said he thought there must be something deep within my psyche (something wrong, I assume) for me to be collecting all this stuff. "I think it must say something about you" he told me.

He should've got on my wife's case: she's the gentlest soul, with her card-making and all, but she's into zombie slasher movies...

[mako88sb]

Yes! Yes! I'd forgotten all about that movie but I did see it too, YEARS AGO. Now I gotta have it! The porridge was supposed to "dope" the fabric and make it taut. Thanks for finding that for me, chum...

Your welcome. Actually, your thread reminded me to search for it again so I owe you some thanks as well. I ordered it off amazon.ca last night and should have it by Monday. Sounds like about 10 mins has been edited out of it however although it's been so long since I seen it that it shouldn't be a problem.

[Joefour]

I just read this and I suppose we shouldn't be at all surprised that those Gileadites thought of it first, but the BELGIANS?


The man knows his Bible. I looked into the Welsh language quite some time ago because I had come across some recordings of Welsh mens' choruses.
Spectacularly beautiful, they send chills up and down your spine. One I always like to listen to is Cwm Rhondda (pronounced Koom Rhontha, with the th voiced), often called in english "Bread of Heaven".

[Eichhörnchen]

Do you know the last time I heard that, I was standing in the Cathedral in 's-Hertogenbosch listening to a Welsh male-voice choir. I'd gone to Holland with my dad on his (as it happens) last veterans' anniversary trip.

It was unbelievable the way even young people outside in the City streets were running up to these old guys with flowers and hugs as they marched by. I really can't see us Brits demonstrating our gratitude in quite such a manner if it'd been us. We'd probably hide indoors until they'd gone.

Aktungbby gets all the credit for providing the historical contexts (see his link above, but I don't know what happened to his original reply)

[August]

Here's a good one:

Stalag 17

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046359/

Otto Preminger as camp commandant!

http://classicmoviechat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/stalag17.jpg

This is the movie that inspired the TV show Hogans Heroes. Even has a character named Sgt Schultz (played by Sig Ruman).

[Joefour]

Do you know the last time I heard that, I was standing in the Cathedral in 's-Hertogenbosch listening to a Welsh male-voice choir. I'd gone to Holland with my dad on his (as it happens) last veterans' anniversary trip.

It was unbelievable the way even young people outside in the City streets were running up to these old guys with flowers and hugs as they marched by. I really can't see us Brits demonstrating our gratitude in quite such a manner if it'd been us. We'd probably hide indoors until they'd gone.

Aktungbby gets all the credit for providing the historical contexts (see his link above, but I don't know what happened to his original reply)

You folks over in the old world still have some respect for yesteryear. Here in the States what was once a branch of european culture has been systematically destroyed and done in such a way that the populace never even noticed. Rap has become the norm; one idiot Supreme Court Chief Justice's misinterpretation of separation of church and state back in the 50's has resulted in things like grade school kids being sent home with a nasty note from the teacher because Junior said grace before he ate his lunch. In Oregon you will go to jail if you are caught swatting your misbehaving brat. Culture has broken down. I should shut up and get off my soapbox-this isn't Hyde Park. Sorry for the rant.

[Eichhörnchen]

Here's a good one:

Stalag 17

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046359/

Otto Preminger as camp commandant!

http://classicmoviechat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/stalag17.jpg

This is the movie that inspired the TV show Hogans Heroes. Even has a character named Sgt Schultz (played by Sig Ruman).

Well I didn't know that either, and I'd forgotten all about Stalag 17. What a great photo, and wasn't William Holden in this movie? It's another one I still haven't got...

[Eichhörnchen]

You folks over in the old world still have some respect for yesteryear. Here in the States what was once a branch of european culture has been systematically destroyed and done in such a way that the populace never even noticed. Rap has become the norm; one idiot Supreme Court Chief Justice's misinterpretation of separation of church and state back in the 50's has resulted in things like grade school kids being sent home with a nasty note from the teacher because Junior said grace before he ate his lunch. In Oregon you will go to jail if you are caught swatting your misbehaving brat. Culture has broken down. I should shut up and get off my soapbox-this isn't Hyde Park. Sorry for the rant.

No you go ahead, pal. Don't we all sometimes wish we were the Commandant sitting behind the big desk in a prison-camp? :yep:

[Platapus]

Just watch the movie "Chicken Run" and you will get the best of all the POW movies. :up:

[Joefour]

No you go ahead, pal. Don't we all sometimes wish we were the Commandant sitting behind the big desk in a prison-camp? :yep:


Don't encourage me, I tend to go off with things like that. It's just that the US of A today is an entirely different place than the US of A when I was a kid. Things really started to go south when JFK was killed in Dallas.
There would have been no Viet Nam, for one thing, which split the nation asunder. He also had plans to trash the Federal Reserve (which by the way, is not part of the Federal Government but rather a private corporation) and put this country back on a debt-free currency.

I'm going to shut my face now and let you go to bed. I realize that you Brits are about 9 hrs. or so ahead of me, and it's 4:00 P.M. here.

[Eichhörnchen]

My God, you must live a long ways from here; my sister went to live in PA in about 1963 and she's five hours behind us...

By the way, I'd been fishing out frogspawn in a jar from a pond the day JFK was killed.

[Eichhörnchen]

Just watch the movie "Chicken Run" and you will get the best of all the POW movies. :up:

Absolutely agree. I've got a 13 year old son so we get to see all this stuff. Current favourite is "Rango": really funny. Took him to see "Planes 2" last week.

[Joefour]

My God, you must live a long ways from here; my sister went to live in PA in about 1963 and she's five hours behind us...

By the way, I'd been fishing out frogspawn in a jar from a pond the day JFK was killed.


Pacific Daylight Time, about 35 miles south of Seattle. The day Jack Kennedy was killed, I remember being in the 3rd grade in elementary school. We were taken from our classroom to another one down the hall where the school's only television set was set up and the live news was going with all the reports coming in.

Frogspawn-is that what we here in the "colonies" call tadpoles?

[Eichhörnchen]

It's still mind-boggling to me that we can be communicating with such immediacy over such a vast distance.

Frogspawn is while it's still frogseggs to us.

[Joefour]

It's still mind-boggling to me that we can be communicating with such immediacy over such a vast distance.

Frogspawn is while it's still frogseggs to us.


The internet is indeed a wonder.

[Eichhörnchen]

Do you, as I suspect, have a background in linguistics?

People who know languages have much more insight into their neighbours on the planet, I think. So what do you reckon the Germans make of the British and U.S. male's habit of seeming to be able to regard them only in the context of the war? It's often not a negative context, either: when we make models, the most popular tables at shows always seem to be the ones covered in German stuff. And when we were kids playing War, everyone wanted to be the Germans. And one of the most popular comedians over here is a German, because he makes us roar with his own references to the war.

I feel sad and rather guilty as a Brit now when I hear young Germans saying they feel bad about the war, because they weren't there, but it doesn't seem to stop us picking away at this, because we still make shows like 'Allo 'Allo (do you know it?)

[Joefour]

Do you, as I suspect, have a background in linguistics?

People who know languages have much more insight into their neighbours on the planet, I think. So what do you reckon the Germans make of the British and U.S. male's habit of seeming to be able to regard them only in the context of the war? It's often not a negative context, either: when we make models, the most popular tables at shows always seem to be the ones covered in German stuff. And when we were kids playing War, everyone wanted to be the Germans. And one of the most popular comedians over here is a German, because he makes us roar with his own references to the war.

I feel sad and rather guilty as a Brit now when I hear young Germans saying they feel bad about the war, because they weren't there, but it doesn't seem to stop us picking away at this, because we still make shows like 'Allo 'Allo (do you know it?)


Never heard of 'Allo, 'Allo. To answer your question, yes. I suppose you could call me an amateur linguist. Ever since my german teacher in high school, Herr Peerenboom got me interested. I could never understand english grammar until I had studied german. One thing that I find fascinating is word origins, such as curfew-from old french "couvrir le feu", cover the fire, or companion- "with bread", the person you break bread with. As far as how young germans feel about the war, I'm not going down that rabbit hole publicly.

[Eichhörnchen]

My Dictionary of English Etymology is always close by.

If you've never heard of 'Allo 'Allo then you've missed a treat. It's a rather pantomimic comedy series set in occupied France, with an extremely vulgar take on things as you might expect from us, though without any bad language. In the same style of the "Carry On" films, if you know what I mean.

Or how about "Dad's Army", then, a comedy series about the Home Guard? If you've never seen that then you've missed absolute Comedy Gold: the best thing ever made for TV by anyone.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

My Dictionary of English Etymology is always close by.

If you've never heard of 'Allo 'Allo then you've missed a treat. It's a rather pantomimic comedy series set in occupied France, with an extremely vulgar take on things as you might expect from us, though without any bad language. In the same style of the "Carry On" films, if you know what I mean.

Or how about "Dad's Army", then, a comedy series about the Home Guard? If you've never seen that then you've missed absolute Comedy Gold: the best thing ever made for TV by anyone. I love 'Allo 'Allo, I've got the whole series on DVD and it's one of the best WW2 comedies I've ever seen! Here's a couple of YT vids for you Joefour just to kind of get a "taste" of 'Allo 'Allo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOhsHRLX7fw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liYMZlLUNek Also on YouTube there's a playlist someone put together of what seems like the whole series. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo4_LZPk4l3dVpFLLjlBKDQJu4dA3tfCV

[Joefour]

My Dictionary of English Etymology is always close by.

If you've never heard of 'Allo 'Allo then you've missed a treat. It's a rather pantomimic comedy series set in occupied France, with an extremely vulgar take on things as you might expect from us, though without any bad language. In the same style of the "Carry On" films, if you know what I mean.

Or how about "Dad's Army", then, a comedy series about the Home Guard? If you've never seen that then you've missed absolute Comedy Gold: the best thing ever made for TV by anyone.

About the only British shows that make it over here on the "telly" on a regular basis is what brought in by PBS (Public Broadcasting System, free but donation based television channels). Upstairs, Downstairs, Are You Being Served?, Benny Hill, etc. I think Downton Abbey and the Sherlock Holmes series with Jeremy Brett are two of the best series you Brits ever came up with. Good stuff. It's a crying shame Jeremy Brett died of cancer before they could do all of Doyle's Sherlock stories-he was the best Holmes ever, bar none. And they followed the original storylines fairly close to the printed plots.

[Eichhörnchen]

Yes, quite agree; got all the Jeremy Brett SH in a boxed set.

I remember from my one and only trip to the US that PBS or what I think you call the "Education Channel" are the only options. All I can say is you don't know what you've missed.

Couldn't you perhaps Google these shows to get a flavour?

[Eichhörnchen]

I love 'Allo 'Allo, I've got the whole series on DVD and it's one of the best WW2 comedies I've ever seen! Here's a couple of YT vids for you Joefour just to kind of get a "taste" of 'Allo 'Allo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOhsHRLX7fw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liYMZlLUNek Also on YouTube there's a playlist someone put together of what seems like the whole series. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo4_LZPk4l3dVpFLLjlBKDQJu4dA3tfCV

Trust you!!

PS/ "It's That Man Again" is a quote from another great British comedy tradition on the radio, abbreviated to ITMA. This was a wartime morale-booster.

[Eichhörnchen]

Just watched it... never tire! "I have za crabs! I have za crabs!"

Magic! I've got them all too!

You're on blistering form today, Helmut!

[Eichhörnchen]

My Dad's shed (another UK man thing, the shed) had, until it fell down recently, a floor constructed entirely from boards salvaged from an old PoW camp not too far from where we lived in Kent. It was for Italian PoWs, apparently.

I've just been called by wifey for my tea now, so I can't finish this or she'll have me in the cooler...

Speak to you later.

[Joefour]

I love 'Allo 'Allo, I've got the whole series on DVD and it's one of the best WW2 comedies I've ever seen! Here's a couple of YT vids for you Joefour just to kind of get a "taste" of 'Allo 'Allo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOhsHRLX7fw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liYMZlLUNek Also on YouTube there's a playlist someone put together of what seems like the whole series. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo4_LZPk4l3dVpFLLjlBKDQJu4dA3tfCV

Danke schön mein lieber Herr!

[Joefour]

Yes, quite agree; got all the Jeremy Brett SH in a boxed set.

I remember from my one and only trip to the US that PBS or what I think you call the "Education Channel" are the only options. All I can say is you don't know what you've missed.

Couldn't you perhaps Google these shows to get a flavour?

I'll have to when I have a little time;I'm getting ready for my kids coming to visit from out of state. Say, while I got you here, is it true that Sesame Street is banned in the UK? Something about it promoting illiteracy.

[Eichhörnchen]

I'll have to when I have a little time;I'm getting ready for my kids coming to visit from out of state. Say, while I got you here, is it true that Sesame Street is banned in the UK? Something about it promoting illiteracy.

Never heard of that...

I got sick and tired of "The Muppets' Pirate Adventure", though.

[Joefour]

Never heard of that...

I got sick and tired of "The Muppets' Pirate Adventure", though.


So you have never heard of Sesame Street or you have never heard of it being banned?

[Eichhörnchen]

Oh I got sick and tired of Sesame Street when my SISTER was a kid. I'm sure it hasn't been banned here, quite sure. Literacy was the whole point of Sesame Street anyway, wasn't it? I'm sure that can't be true... the Government isn't ALLOWED to ban anything in this country.

[Joefour]

Oh I got sick and tired of Sesame Street when my SISTER was a kid. I'm sure it hasn't been banned here, quite sure. Literacy was the whole point of Sesame Street anyway, wasn't it? I'm sure that can't be true... the Government isn't ALLOWED to ban anything in this country.


I guess I had some bad intelligence on that subject. I too can't stand the damn thing. I've got a grandson whose 1st birthday is coming up in a few weeks. I plan on talking to him in german so he'll pick it up. Get 'em while they are young and haven't formed their speech ingrams in hard copy yet. Little kids pick up language much more easily than adults. Maybe read Grimm's Fairy Tales to him in the original (big maybe-that's some gruesome stuff). If he wants to study some other language in school later he will already have german under his belt. It's his heritage on his daddy's side. (son-in-law)

[August]

Here's a WW2 POW escape movie that you can watch online for free

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEAy7kd0OlM

The Wooden Horse
1950 starring Leo Genn

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/The_Wooden_Horse_FilmPoster.jpeg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/The_Wooden_Horse_FilmPoster.jpeg)

[Joefour]

Here's a WW2 POW escape movie that you can watch online for free

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEAy7kd0OlM

The Wooden Horse
1950 starring Leo Genn

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/The_Wooden_Horse_FilmPoster.jpeg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/The_Wooden_Horse_FilmPoster.jpeg)

Thanks! Looks like an oldie but goodie.

[Eichhörnchen]

Nice one, August. This post of yours has brought things full-circle to my original question: the quote I mentioned came from this very movie, and was asked of Anthony Steel by Leo Genn. It's a must-have in the PoW genre.

[Eichhörnchen]

I guess I had some bad intelligence on that subject. I too can't stand the damn thing. I've got a grandson whose 1st birthday is coming up in a few weeks. I plan on talking to him in german so he'll pick it up. Get 'em while they are young and haven't formed their speech ingrams in hard copy yet. Little kids pick up language much more easily than adults. Maybe read Grimm's Fairy Tales to him in the original (big maybe-that's some gruesome stuff). If he wants to study some other language in school later he will already have german under his belt. It's his heritage on his daddy's side. (son-in-law)

Very interested to learn that your son-in-law is German in view of what I asked earlier, but I won't quiz you further.

I still think you'll turn out to be a professor of linguistics or something.

[Joefour]

Very interested to learn that your son-in-law is German in view of what I asked earlier, but I won't quiz you further.

I still think you'll turn out to be a professor of linguistics or something.


Oh, He's not german himself, but he looks and thinks like one. His grandfather's family was ukrainian german who had to get the hell out when the Bolsheviks took over. I understand the old man used to forget his english and start ranting in german when he got upset. My mother's stepmother's family were also ukrainian german (although mennonites). That's an interesting corner of history in itself. The germans in THE Ukraine go all the way back to Catherine the Great when she invited them to come to the Ukraine and gave them free or cheap land. They fulfilled her intention-they turned the Ukraine into what was proverbially called the Breadbasket that fed "all the Russias".

[nikimcbee]

Just watch the movie "Chicken Run" and you will get the best of all the POW movies. :up:

:salute::up:

[Eichhörnchen]

[QUOTE=Joefour;2235089]I didn't even know there were PC games about POWs. I've always been interested in flight...



If you visit my question entitled "The Great Escape" under Subsims & Naval Games>General Games Discussions, you'll find a kind soul has posted a YT video clip illustrating this game. I don't know whether a like video of "Prisoner of War" exists.

Are you an aeromodeller or a flight-simmer, Joefour??

[Joefour]

[QUOTE=Joefour;2235089]I didn't even know there were PC games about POWs. I've always been interested in flight...



If you visit my question entitled "The Great Escape" under Subsims & Naval Games>General Games Discussions, you'll find a kind soul has posted a YT video clip illustrating this game. I don't know whether a like video of "Prisoner of War" exists.

Are you an aeromodeller or a flight-simmer, Joefour??

I used to do a lot of flight sims before I recently got addicted to SH.

[Eichhörnchen]

I got fed up standing around waiting for fsx to load up, plus it never ran well (does it for anyone) so I recently uninstalled it. fs9 is still my favourite, with photo scenery.

I really wanted to set up this development of cfs3 called "Wings: Over Flanders Fields" which apparently has transformed the basic simulator in every way, whilst turning it into the best WW1 combat sim (I was so angry to find that "Rise of Flight" is online only). Have you heard about this sim? It's download only, so far as I can tell.

I do still enjoy an occasional melee in "First Eagles" and have all the Ubisoft IL-2s plus "Wings of Prey".

[Sailor Steve]

I've known about OFF for years, but my ancient computer won't run it.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106827&highlight=over+flanders+fields
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=209869&highlight=over+flanders+fields

I say I've known about the original for years, but this is the first I've heard of this latest development. Early '15? Enemy who don't want to fight? I'm all for it!

[Eichhörnchen]

Visit: www.wingsoverflandersfields.com

I'm going away to drink my beer now.

[Joefour]

Visit: www.wingsoverflandersfields.com (http://www.wingsoverflandersfields.com)

I'm going away to drink my beer now.

Interesting game, but I don't think it will run on my old machine, it barely runs SH.

[Eichhörnchen]

It' not gonna run on mine, either. I know it.

[Joefour]

I got fed up standing around waiting for fsx to load up, plus it never ran well (does it for anyone) so I recently uninstalled it. fs9 is still my favourite, with photo scenery.

I really wanted to set up this development of cfs3 called "Wings: Over Flanders Fields" which apparently has transformed the basic simulator in every way, whilst turning it into the best WW1 combat sim (I was so angry to find that "Rise of Flight" is online only). Have you heard about this sim? It's download only, so far as I can tell.

I do still enjoy an occasional melee in "First Eagles" and have all the Ubisoft IL-2s plus "Wings of Prey".

I have never tried running FSX on my decrepit old machine either because I don't think it would run. I have however run CFS3, CFS2, and MS Rise of Flight on XP with no problem. There is an interesting (free) add on for CFS2 called RAAF Defence (see, I mispelled defense!) which is centered around the Aussies. Excellent add on. I think I found it and others at www.flightsim.com (http://www.flightsim.com).
The only thing is that the P-40s in it are gutless and won't climb worth a damn. I usually cheat and use a Hellcat or Corsair (which have methanol/water injection on demand). Makes it a lot easier to keep up with those flying beer cans the Japs called Zeros.

[Eichhörnchen]

You're not doing so bad if you can run Rise of Flight, I would've thought.

I DO like cfs2: I downloaded some Battle of Britain Hurricane skins the other day and have been searching ever since for the "old" Aeroplane Heaven Hurricane Mk1 they were designed for, which is supposed to have run in cfs2. The www.netwings.org website is always down for some inexplicable reason; they're supposed to have it, along with lots of other cfs2 aircraft.

The controls work so well in this sim, whereas I have a lot of trouble with the HAT switch in IL-2 and BoBII.

[Joefour]

You're not doing so bad if you can run Rise of Flight, I would've thought.

I DO like cfs2: I downloaded some Battle of Britain Hurricane skins the other day and have been searching ever since for the "old" Aeroplane Heaven Hurricane Mk1 which is supposed to have run in cfs2. The www.netwings.org (http://www.netwings.org) website is always down for some inexplicable reason (they're supposed to have it, along with lots of other cfs2 stuff).

I dunno, it runs. It certainly isn't a gaming computer. Try going to flightsim.com and do a search under CFS2. You will come up with tons of stuff for it. Skins dashboards, planes and missions. One guy even designed a model of the SR-71 for MS FS by working with an ex Blackbird pilot (no classified stuff of course). I flew LA to NY in 2 hrs. at 90,000+ ft. and Mach 3. Ground speed in excess of 1780 if I remember right. It even deploys a parachute when you touch down.

[Eichhörnchen]

I'll take a look there, thanks. It's been a great disappointment that I haven't been able to get BoBII to stay up on my pc (see my other thread in General Games) but I remain hopeful. I think it's because this doesn't work properly I'm looking elsewhere for a good combat Hurricane. I just don't like those in IL-2: quite apart from the misbehaving HAT button they sound awful.

When it comes to realistic engine sound, have you got the Just Flight "Dambusters" for cfs2/FS2002? I've stood under the wing of Just Jane on start-up and I promise you this is EXACTLY how it sounds!

[Joefour]

I'll take a look there, thanks. It's been a great disappointment that I haven't been able to get BoBII to stay up on my pc (see my other thread in General Games) but I remain hopeful. I think it's because this doesn't work properly I'm looking elsewhere for a good combat Hurricane. I just don't like those in IL-2: quite apart from the misbehaving HAT button they sound awful.

When it comes to realistic engine sound, have you got the Just Flight "Dambusters" for cfs2/FS2002? I've stood under the wing of Just Jane on start-up and I promise you this is EXACTLY how it sounds!

Who knows, you might find a Hurricane suitable to your liking at flightsim. Personally, I like the P-38 for it's fire power. The big drawback is it's turning radius sucks. It's too hard in the simulation to do what Dick Bong used to do--feather one of his props to swing his tail around and bring his guns to bear on that Zero in front of him.

[Eichhörnchen]

Another movie I'd been meaning to mention, and since this is "PoW stuff" after all, is "The One That Got Away" starring Hardy Kruger. Seen it? That would be a good candidate for a remake, I think.

And I don't know whether I already mentioned the fact that part of another b/w escape classic, "One of Our Aircraft is Missing" was filmed near here, on the river in Boston. In it you can see the top of Boston "Stump" (the tower of St Botolph's Church). It's very like the Netherlands landscape here, so was used for filming that sequence. The "Stump" is visible for miles around.

[Joefour]

Another movie I'd been meaning to mention, and since this is "PoW stuff" after all, is "The One That Got Away" starring Hardy Kruger. Seen it? That would be a good candidate for a remake, I think.

And I don't know whether I already mentioned the fact that part of another b/w escape classic, "One of Our Aircraft is Missing" was filmed near here, on the river in Boston. In it you can see the top of Boston "Stump" (the tower of St Botolph's Church). It's very like the Netherlands landscape here, so was used for filming that sequence. The "Stump" is visible for miles around.

Never seen it.

[Eichhörnchen]

I just visited flightsim.com but I think this Hurricane is too old to still be in their listings; it's a free download elsewhere, so they're not likely to still have it for sale.

The view from the cockpit is important to me too, and I've no idea how good this is on this model. I DO NOT like the dirtying of the glass around the cockpit framing in Wings of Prey at all. I know what they were trying to achieve but it's far too obtrusive and ruins the view.

[Joefour]

I just visited flightsim.com but I think this Hurricane is too old to still be in their listings; it's a free download elsewhere, so they're not likely to still have it for sale.

The view from the cockpit is important to me too, and I've no idea how good this is on this model. I DO NOT like the dirtying of the glass around the cockpit framing in Wings of Prey at all. I know what they were trying to achieve but it's far too obtrusive and ruins the view.

Well, I thought it might be worth a try. You say elswhere. Were you looking at some model that is for sale? I've downloaded several models from that site that are great, for free. I will admit though that they were for Rise of Flight and not CFS2.

[Eichhörnchen]

Well I only had time for a quick look, I'll go back later.

Speaking of P-38s, I got one (another Just Flight model, I think) from my "free-with-PC Pilot Magazine" CD-ROM once. I don't know whether you ever get this mag. with a cover cd full of free stuff (planes, scenery and the like)?

Increasingly now the content of the magazine is pitched at the most up-to-date sims (DCS World, X-Plane etc) but to be fair the cd is split about 50/50 between fs9 and fsx, because (I suppose) its content is produced largely by amateur guys who're skilled in those platforms.

Now and again they get a freebie for their cd from one of the big boys and then it's REALLY worth getting: one of my favourites was the F-86 for fs9 (think it runs in fsx too)... I can't recall who made it but I can soon look that up. It's the complete package, with a number of skins to choose from (some of these commercial freebies come with an astonishingly generous number of skins; others are a bit mean and either disappear from the screen if you go above 2000' or won't fly at all. These are just demos though: the F-86 was simply a generous gift).

Back to the P-38. My fs9 is on the cusp of falling on its backside much of the time, and this model is so elaborate and big that it just puts too much strain on it. The engine sound is very good. The Sabre, however, a VERY polished model in every sense, runs almost like a dream.

[mako88sb]

Your welcome. Actually, your thread reminded me to search for it again so I owe you some thanks as well. I ordered it off amazon.ca last night and should have it by Monday. Sounds like about 10 mins has been edited out of it however although it's been so long since I seen it that it shouldn't be a problem.

Got "Escape of the Birdmen" yesterday and watched it last night. The quality of the dvd is definitely lacking and as some reviewers stated on Amazon, it looks like someone simply pointed a camera at a tv playing a vhs version. Still I enjoyed it but as I said before, I don't remember much about it since seeing it 43 years ago. Some might notice the missing 10 mins of footage. I forgot to ask if the actual Colditz glider used porridge to dope the fabric?

[Eichhörnchen]

Got "Escape of the Birdmen" yesterday and watched it last night. The quality of the dvd is definitely lacking and as some reviewers stated on Amazon, it looks like someone simply pointed a camera at a tv playing a vhs version. Still I enjoyed it but as I said before, I don't remember much about it since seeing it 43 years ago. Some might notice the missing 10 mins of footage. I forgot to ask if the actual Colditz glider used porridge to dope the fabric?

I was wondering about you, for sure...

I got a dvd like that once ("The Last Days Of Patton"). This movie, too, hadn't been seen for years since it was on TV, so I was chuffed to find it on mail-order dvd. It was really ropey. I couldn't believe they could sell it like that and felt there must be a better "print" of the film somewhere.

Interesting question about the porridge: I suppose it would've been the starch which might make it work as a "dope". I'll see if I can find out whether the real one was treated with porridge.

Thanks for getting back on this...:03:



Just looked it up in "Colditz" by P.R. Reid:

For the doping, "German ration millet was ground fine and boiled in water for hours, forming a paste. This was applied hot to the skin. When cool and dry, it produced a smooth, glossy surface, shrinking the fabric at the same time, so that it became as taut as a drum."

I suppose in this daft movie they thought porridge would be more amusing...

[mako88sb]

Just looked it up in "Colditz" by P.R. Reid:

For the doping, "German ration millet was ground fine and boiled in water for hours, forming a paste. This was applied hot to the skin. When cool and dry, it produced a smooth, glossy surface, shrinking the fabric at the same time, so that it became as taut as a drum."

I suppose in this daft movie they thought porridge would be more amusing...


Thanks for the quick response. I guess their decision worked for me as it's one of the few things I remember from way back then. It was interesting to see Tom Skerritt and Rene Auberjonois in it. A couple great actors I always enjoy to see.

[Eichhörnchen]

I see it was a TV-movie starring Doug McClure and Chuck Connors. I looked up Rene Auberjonois and immediately recognised him as "Odo" in DS9.

Didn't see Tom Skerritt mentioned but I recognise him, too.

I've got a lot of time for Matt Damon as an actor and the "Bourne" movies are keepers for me. Have you seen "The Monuments Men" yet (George Clooney, Matt Damon). Great movie. Captures the feel of time and place perfectly. My dad was in Germany at this time; after he recovered from being blown up (see "Hitler Tried To Get My Dad" thread) they put him in the Civilian Control Commission.

[mako88sb]

I see it was a TV-movie starring Doug McClure and Chuck Connors. I looked up Rene Auberjonois and immediately recognised him as "Odo" in DS9.

Didn't see Tom Skerritt mentioned but I recognise him, too.

I've got a lot of time for Matt Damon as an actor and the "Bourne" movies are keepers for me. Have you seen "The Monuments Men" yet (George Clooney, Matt Damon). Great movie. Captures the feel of time and place perfectly. My dad was in Germany at this time; after he recovered from being blown up (see "Hitler Tried To Get My Dad" thread) they put him in the Civilian Control Commission.

No, I haven't seen it yet but hopefully soon. I'll have to check the thread about your dad. Sounds very interesting.

[Eichhörnchen]

That thread has gained quite some momentum: some really good stuff has been posted there and I'm in hopes there'll eventually be someone with a PoW story.

[Stealhead]

I have a WWII POW story. Actually involving my grandfather who was US Army Signal Corps and German POWs.Certain details I do not have as my grandfather passed away 30 years ago and he had forgotten names.

Most of the war my grandfather had it pretty easy he was Signal Corps and spent 80% of his war in England.They would use POWs in the warehouse section to help organize things. Anyway according to my grandfather a German officer complained to him that he suspected that the Americans where throwing away letters POWs had written. Anyway my grandfather managed to find out that no letters had been thrown away. I suppose that the German officer was pleased enough or finally did get a return letter and believed what my grandfather had told him.

The kind act did not go unrewarded. The German officer informed my grandfather a few weeks later that a group of diehards where planning to make an escape by hiding in the warehouse and having one man feign an injury to get one of the Americans to approach.At which point they would take his weapon(obviously killing him in the process) their goal was to escape into the English countryside and of course attempt to sabotage vital facilities.

Unfortunately my grandfather never did know the Germans complete name or where he was from in Germany. Kind of ironic of course as had the officer not given the warning those diehards might have killed my grandfather or whom ever else might have been on duty at the time had they gotten a chance to carry out their escape plan.

Another story about POWs from my fathers history teacher in high school(this would have been in the early 60's). This time in Italy in Sicily. Apparently the future history teacher was a member of a US Army squad on patrol as they came over the top of a hill in a village down below was a much more sizable force of Italians. At first the squad thought their gooses where cooked being clearly outnumbered so they got ready for what was coming....which was the entire Italian unit which out manned and out gunned the single American squad surrendering to them instead of attacking. Needless to say they headed back to American lines before anyone changed their minds. Good thing I recon that that particular units morale was busted when they saw the Americans at the top of the hill.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Here's a book I would strongly recommend to any fan of P.O.W books, it's called Under the Wire by William Ash and Brendan Foley. The book is about William "Bill" Ash who grew up in Depression Era Texas, who so badly wanted to fight the Nazis he tried to join the RCAF (and failed to do so a couple times) and eventually made to England where he flew Spitfires in the RAF and was eventually shot down. As was said in the book Bill was an "American, flying for Canada, fighting for England, and was shot down over France and captured by the Germans!" His escapes where many and truly legendary.

Another book I would also recommend if it can be found is My War With Imperial Japan by Richard Vernon Hill, Maj. (Ret.), this book is about an American solder who gets caught up in the Invasion of the Philippines, escapes once to the island fortress of Corregidor and is eventually captured by the Japanese and is one of many to suffer the horrors of the Bataan Death March. While in a holding camp this soldier manages to escape again this time (if I remember right) swimming out to a partly sunken freighter in Manila Bay where he hides for a few days, then swims to shore on the southern side of Manila Bay and continues to make his down south. On the way he meets a couple of others P.O.Ws who also managed to escape, together and with the help of the Filipinos make their way further and further from the Japanese. They eventually manage to get a boat from of all places a leper colony! Then the P.O.Ws sailed some 4,000 miles though enemy infested waters and having being stopped by IJN destroyers and flown over and in one instance strafed by Zeros finally make it to Australia. I read this book some odd years ago and it's really worth a read but it is somewhat hard to come by (I looked for it in the library system with no luck) but it can be bought at places like Amazon.

[August]

Here's a book you guys would be interested in.

"The war journal of Major Rocky Gause"

This guy along with a couple other GI's escaped the fall of Corregidor and managed to sail a leaky open boat all the way to Australia dodging the Japanese along the way.

Well written and has a bunch of pictures.

[August]

Here is a pic of the rest of my POW book collection.

http://home.comcast.net/~rdsterling/pwpimages/20140828_213207.jpg?PHPSESSID=99e719f19574849672cc ad14abeef220

[Eichhörnchen]

I have a WWII POW story. Actually involving my grandfather who was US Army Signal Corps and German POWs.Certain details I do not have as my grandfather passed away 30 years ago and he had forgotten names.

Most of the war my grandfather had it pretty easy he was Signal Corps and spent 80% of his war in England.They would use POWs in the warehouse section to help organize things. Anyway according to my grandfather a German officer complained to him that he suspected that the Americans where throwing away letters POWs had written. Anyway my grandfather managed to find out that no letters had been thrown away. I suppose that the German officer was pleased enough or finally did get a return letter and believed what my grandfather had told him.

The kind act did not go unrewarded. The German officer informed my grandfather a few weeks later that a group of diehards where planning to make an escape by hiding in the warehouse and having one man feign an injury to get one of the Americans to approach.At which point they would take his weapon(obviously killing him in the process) their goal was to escape into the English countryside and of course attempt to sabotage vital facilities.

Unfortunately my grandfather never did know the Germans complete name or where he was from in Germany. Kind of ironic of course as had the officer not given the warning those diehards might have killed my grandfather or whom ever else might have been on duty at the time had they gotten a chance to carry out their escape plan.

Another story about POWs from my fathers history teacher in high school(this would have been in the early 60's). This time in Italy in Sicily. Apparently the future history teacher was a member of a US Army squad on patrol as they came over the top of a hill in a village down below was a much more sizable force of Italians. At first the squad thought their gooses where cooked being clearly outnumbered so they got ready for what was coming....which was the entire Italian unit which out manned and out gunned the single American squad surrendering to them instead of attacking. Needless to say they headed back to American lines before anyone changed their minds. Good thing I recon that that particular units morale was busted when they saw the Americans at the top of the hill.


Thanks, Stealhead, and you other guys who've kept this thread alive while I've been confined unexpectedly not by the Germans, but in a hospital about as hard to get out of as Colditz. It looks like some fabulous catch-up reading for me!

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/ie0wCj8.jpg?1

Wanted to follow August's good idea: one or two I can't find right now...

[August]

That's a pretty neat collection. What's also interesting is out of all of them I could only find two matches to what I have. The PR Reid book and The Wooden Horse.

Lot's of material in this genre apparently.

Hope you are feeling better.

[Eichhörnchen]

Thanks, August. I have got The Great Escape somewhere, plus a large format book featuring photos of the many and various fake items and equipment, disguises etc fabricated by prisoners in camps to aid their escapes.

I was remembering earlier today another POW film (British, black & white, 1950s) which I don't think got mentioned in this thread. I don't remember the name of it but it starred James Robertson Justice as a "boffin" (scientist) captured and interned either by the Germans or Italians after an aerial sortie went wrong. The prison camp inmates had to get him out because of important secrets he possessed.

[Jimbuna]

Very Important Person (1961)

http://www.themoviescene.co.uk/reviews/very-important-person/very-important-person.html

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/uD2J48N.png?1


That's the one; thanks for the link, Jim.

[Jimbuna]

Your welcome matey.

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/ZbAoo63.jpg?1


On the first page I mentioned PoW escape games for the pc. These are the two I have, and as far as I know are the only two. I played them as playstation 2 games at first, then found them for the pc: much better to play some games in this way, as many people agree.

They may seem a bit dated by comparison with Bad Company 2 and suchlike games, but the graphics are still extremely good, giving a perfect sense of place, and your pursuers can still run fast and shoot straight.

In the game on the right you get to visit Colditz...

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

I too have both of those games. I really liked how The Great Escape game added a bit more depth to the characters by adding levels that told their story and gave some details into the preparations needed to even attempt to escape from a prisoner of war camp. As for Prisoner of War, the story line was a bit far fetched although it was plausible, I had always hoped that someone would make a second Prisoner of War game with maybe a mix of tales from Pat Reid's books on Colditz and from Bill Ash's book Under the Wire.

[Eichhörnchen]

I never actually concluded the second game on PS2: I was unable, I seem to remember, to get hold of a camera with which to photograph the "traitor" in the Kommandant's office, which was the final task at the end.

I'm playing them both through on pc now, so hoping for better luck this time! Thanks so much for your feedback.

There is another PoW film I ought to mention: "Hart's War" starring Bruce Willis and Colin Farrell. The US perspective on PoW life seems somewhat darker on film than the British (I'm thinking also of "Stalag 17", with William Holden) excepting of course the barmy comedy of "Hogan's Heroes", which inspired this thread in the first place.

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/cqbeQ0o.png?1

[August]

That was a surprisingly good movie. A POW escape movie that turns into a racial movie that turns into a courtroom drama that turns into a sabotage movie. Well done and the choice for camp commandant was excellent. A very Dracula like portrayal.

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/lIUJe9d.png?1

That's a great summary of the film, also I was wondering what it was about the Kommandant: a vampiric performance indeed. This guy is a top actor in Romania and he did look very familiar; I reckon he'd easily fill the jackboots of Anton Diffring, the classic "we need us a Nazi for this picture" actor of the 1960s and 70s.

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/WbzLhTV.png?1

[August]

I think he could but unlike Diffring who was pretty much always a bad guy I think Iures could also do a more sympathetic role kinda like what this guy could do...
.
Karl Michael Vogler
http://image1.findagrave.com/photos/2009/159/38131784_124458804461.jpg

[Eichhörnchen]

I agree with you on that.


And now a discovery I made only this morning, when one of those mail-order DVD booklets arrived. I've never even heard of this film, apparently an escape movie. Have to get it now and see it...

http://i.imgur.com/98INmsf.png?1

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/O1ABfSk.png?1

How did we forget this...?

[August]

Yep von Ryans express is pretty good though I think the book had a much better ending than the movie.

I just picked up this book the other day

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608042845550609867&pid=15.1&P=0

Not too bad so far....

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/3MD9mxi.jpg?1

Saw this for the first time only last year.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

I just finished reading Escape From Davao: The Forgotten Story of the Most Daring Prison Break of the Pacific War, By John D. Lukacs, which I had gotten for Christmas. It is a truly amazing book to read covering everything from the tensions before the outbreak of war between the United States and Japan, though the Battles of Bataan and Corregidor, the horrors of the Bataan Death March, to the camps which the POWs where placed in afterwards, the conditions of the camps. Everything was put down in minute detail. These twelve prisoners who escaped from the Davao Penal Colony on the Philippine island of Mindanao, to tell the world what was happening to their comrades in these camps only to be told by their own government that they couldn't say anything to anyone about what they had seen. One of the men, Major William Edwin "Ed" Dyess (USAAF) wrote this at the start of his report to the War Department, " I had tried to put into words some of the things that I have experienced and observed during these past months, but I fail to find words adequate to an accurate portrayal. If any American could sit down and conjure before his mind the most diabolical of nightmares, he might perhaps come close to it, but none who have not gone though it could possibly have any idea of the tortures and the horror that these men are going though." Maj. William Dyess, August 16, 1943. After reading this book, his words are far more then adequate.

[August]

I just finished reading Escape From Davao: The Forgotten Story of the Most Daring Prison Break of the Pacific War, By John D. Lukacs, which I had gotten for Christmas. It is a truly amazing book to read covering everything from the tensions before the outbreak of war between the United States and Japan, though the Battles of Bataan and Corregidor, the horrors of the Bataan Death March, to the camps which the POWs where placed in afterwards, the conditions of the camps. Everything was put down in minute detail. These twelve prisoners who escaped from the Davao Penal Colony on the Philippine island of Mindanao, to tell the world what was happening to their comrades in these camps only to be told by their own government that they couldn't say anything to anyone about what they had seen. One of the men, Major William Edwin "Ed" Dyess (USAAF) wrote this at the start of his report to the War Department, " I had tried to put into words some of the things that I have experienced and observed during these past months, but I fail to find words adequate to an accurate portrayal. If any American could sit down and conjure before his mind the most diabolical of nightmares, he might perhaps come close to it, but none who have not gone though it could possibly have any idea of the tortures and the horror that these men are going though." Maj. William Dyess, August 16, 1943. After reading this book, his words are far more then adequate.

Interesting. I have a book written by one of his fellow escapees Steve Mellnik. called Philippine Diary 1939-1945.

[Eichhörnchen]

While it was difficult and dangerous enough for escapees in the ETO to get back to the UK in WWII, how on earth did these Pacific escapers get home? I'd be interested in just one example of a route taken by an individual (mustn't spoil it for anyone planning to read these books).

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

While it was difficult and dangerous enough for escapees in the ETO to get back to the UK in WWII, how on earth did these Pacific escapers get home? I'd be interested in just one example of a route taken by an individual (mustn't spoil it for anyone planning to read these books). Most of it was done either on foot or by some form of boat and later by submarine. Although unlike POWs escaping from camps located across Europe the escapees from the Davao Penal Colony (or Dapecol for short) the first stage of their route was used by all the escapees. The other stages for those who where cleared to evacuate was as follows: from Nasipit to El Salvador by sea-going banca (a larger version of the typical canoe used in the Philippines), overland from El Salvador to Iligan, banca from Iligan to Misamis City, overland and by boat from Misamis City to Naga Naga. In total the entire escape route covered somewhere around I'd say 470 miles or more by land, river and sea, (although this is a rough estimate based on the route that I could find using Google Earth so it is probably in the ballpark.)

[August]

You want an example of a route then I recommend The War Journal of Major Damon "Rocky" Gause.

These guys sailed this all the way from the Philippines to Australia

http://www.mainstreetnews.com/PermPhotos/PhotoGauseShip.jpeg

This guy not only fought through the fall of Bataan and Corregidor then escaped from the Japanese and sailed this thing to Australia but he then went to Europe and flew fighters against the Germans.

http://www.mainstreetnews.com/PermPhotos/PhotoGauseSr.jpeg

His book is an excellent read.

http://images.contentreserve.com/ImageType-400/0857-1/B92/85C/77/%7BB9285C77-49D2-41C7-B646-F371C06BB199%7DImg400.jpg

[Jimbuna]

^ First I've heard and will certainly look it up :cool:

[Eichhörnchen]

Just found this today in a second-hand shop, August:

http://i.imgur.com/It4gA9O.jpg

ISBN 0-670-91094-5 published by Penguin/Viking 2002

(These authors collaborated more recently on the similar book, already mentioned, "Home Run" ISBN 978-0-670-91603-0, same publisher)

[August]

Just found this today in a second-hand shop, August:

http://i.imgur.com/It4gA9O.jpg

ISBN 0-670-91094-5 published by Penguin/Viking 2002

(These authors collaborated more recently on the similar book, already mentioned, "Home Run" ISBN 978-0-670-91603-0, same publisher)

Thanks for the heads up! Please let me know what you think of the book.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

I just finished reading an oldie but a goodie. It's called Escape or Die Authentic Stories of the RAF Escaping Society by Paul Brickhill (same author as The Great Escape). It has seven stories in all and take place in both different parts of the world and different operational theaters. It is worth reading if you can find a copy of it, mine came from the library of the Auburn University at Montgomery.

[August]

This is a great thread. :salute:

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/KyWoadv.jpg?1

"Zere vill be no ezgape from ziss thread..."

[Eichhörnchen]

The origins of "Big X":
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2292103&postcount=1
care of our own Von Tonner

[Von Tonner]

The origins of "Big X":
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2292103&postcount=1
care of our own Von Tonner

I find it heart warming that atrocities as happened to the 50 escapees who were executed did not go unpunished. It says a tremendous amount for who we are.

"Big X" was first shot by a "Dr Spann, a senior Gestapo officer, who failed to kill him. Spann then ordered Emil Schulz, a minor civilian official, to shoot Bushell again, which he did reluctantly. Spann was later killed in an Allied air raid, but Emil Schulz was captured, tried for the murder of Bushell, found guilty and executed."

[Eichhörnchen]

Wow, that's also interesting: where did you find that out?

[Von Tonner]

Wow, that's also interesting: where did you find that out?

Here are two links Eichhornchen which I am sure you will find fascinating reading on the last hours of Roger Bushell. The one link in particular asks the question if Emil Schulz was unjustly executed as he was ordered by his superior to fire the fatal shot after Dr Spann's shot failed to kill Bushell.

http://www.pegasusarchive.org/pow/roger_bushell.htm

"He shot the hero of the Great Escape in cold blood. But was this one Nazi who DIDN'T deserve to hang?"
By PHIL CRAIG


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222565/He-shot-hero-Great-Escape-cold-blood-But-Nazi-DIDNT-deserve-hang.html

There is a book by Simon Read titled: "Human Game: Hunting the Great Escape Murderers" - I have not read it but if anyone has I would be interested to know their take on it and if its worth tracking down.

[Eichhörnchen]

That's brilliant: I'll certainly be delving into all of this... many thanks

[Harvs]

I didn't even know there were PC games about POWs. I've always been interested in flight, and the past 6 mos., SUBMARINES.
If you don't mind me asking, why the handle Eichhornchen? Eichhörnchen is squirrel auf Deutsch.

Have you tried Rise of Flight? I downloaded it from steam, its quite a good game.

[Eichhörnchen]

You're lucky: it looks fabulous but I'm unable to play anything via "Steam" so If I want WW1 flight I have to settle for "First Eagles" (there are some screenshots on my Profile Page). I mentioned another sim earlier in this thread (link below) called "Wings Over Flanders Fields", not so much an expansion as a total reworking of cfs3 for WW1. I'm not sure what flight sims Joe plays... I'll ask him.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2235991&postcount=64

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?pictureid=7910&albumid=941&dl=1424717884&thumb=1 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/album.php?albumid=941&pictureid=7910)

First Eagles by G2 Games

[Harvs]

You're lucky: it looks fabulous but I'm unable to play anything via "Steam" so If I want WW1 flight I have to settle for "First Eagles" (there are some screenshots on my Profile Page). I mentioned another sim earlier in this thread (link below) called "Wings Over Flanders Fields", not so much an expansion as a total reworking of cfs3 for WW1. I'm not sure what flight sims Joe plays... I'll ask him.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2235991&postcount=64

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?pictureid=7910&albumid=941&dl=1424717884&thumb=1 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/album.php?albumid=941&pictureid=7910)

First Eagles by G2 Games

If WW1 flight is your interest or combat flight in general I have just finished a book called Lords of the sky by Dan Hampton, what a great book, great history and a good teaching aid.

[Catfish]

Nah, the best WW1 sims are Rise of flight ("RoF"), or Wings over Flanders Fields ("WOFF").

I avoid Steam like the plague, but each to his own.

You do not need Steam though to play RoF, you can download it for free at the RoF website: http://riseofflight.com/download/
After downloading and installing it will update and that's all. You get three planes for free (Albatros D.Va, Nieuport 17 and the SPAD XIII), and can buy other ones if you like.
I advise a joystick, not much fun without it. And you have to learn the controls, or adjust them to your liking. I play it a lot ;)

[Joefour]

Have you tried Rise of Flight? I downloaded it from steam, its quite a good game.

If you are talking about MS Flight Sim. 9, yes. My son-in-law gave me a copy several years ago, and play it from time to time. Just try and recreate Lindbergh's flight without cheating with the GPS; talk about a challenge! Bloody Hell!

[Eichhörnchen]

FS9 is subtitled Rise of Flight or Century of Flight I think, but Harvs means the new(ish) WW1 sim.

I envy Harvs and Catfish: I did load a free, limited, copy of RoF which came on a freeby disc with PC Pilot magazine a while back. Got through the whole palaver of loading, entering CD key and filling in account details, only to be told after I clicked on "Create Account" that there was a problem with my internet connection (there wasn't). Two more tries and I ditched the whole idea.

As for WoFF, that's supposed to be stupendous: revamping of weather, terrain, just about everything (in Combat Flight Simulator 3) but again it requires tremendous internet resources I just don't have. The one aerial combat sim I'd give up all others for though, if I could only get it to keep running, is Battle of Britain II.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?pictureid=7970&albumid=941&dl=1424717884&thumb=1 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/album.php?albumid=941&pictureid=7970)

Battle of Britain II screenshot

[Joefour]

FS9 is subtitled Rise of Flight or Century of Flight I think, but Harvs means the new(ish) WW1 sim.

I envy Harvs and Catfish: I did load a free, limited, copy of RoF which came on a freeby disc with PC Pilot magazine a while back. Got through the whole palaver of loading, entering CD key and filling in account details, only to be told after I clicked on "Create Account" that there was a problem with my internet connection (there wasn't). Two more tries and I ditched the whole idea.

As for WoFF, that's supposed to be stupendous: revamping of weather, terrain, just about everything (in Combat Flight Simulator 3) but again it requires tremendous internet resources I just don't have. The one aerial combat sim I'd give up all others for though, if I could only get it to keep running, is Battle of Britain II.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?pictureid=7970&albumid=941&dl=1424717884&thumb=1 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/album.php?albumid=941&pictureid=7970)

Battle of Britain II screenshot

Not familiar with that one.

[Sailor Steve]

As for WoFF, that's supposed to be stupendous: revamping of weather, terrain, just about everything (in Combat Flight Simulator 3) but again it requires tremendous internet resources I just don't have.
I'm not really into online gaming that much, so WOFF looks like the one for me. From what I've read its best feature is a campaign similar to the one in Red Baron, except possibly better.

[Eichhörnchen]

I never got a chance to play the acclaimed Red Baron: my last PC wasn't up to the task and this one won't even acknowledge its existence in the Drive.

I don't do anything online either (except this). I only have access via a "dongle", so can't play or download much... too expensive in data/££'s.

[Harvs]

Same here i dont play online, too many idiots and yes its the new rof i mean, been trying to dive bomb a German tank but i have more success going kamakazi on it.

[Stealhead]

http://www.gog.com/game/red_baron_pack

For Eichhornchen GOG is DRM free though you do have to down load. GOG is very good about making old games run on newer PCs. Even if you have an old disc you may not ever get it to run due to drivers.

[Eichhörnchen]

Even if you have an old disc you may not ever get it to run due to drivers.

So true. Listen, thanks so much for that, Stealhead: what a useful link!

[fender2610]

Anyone ever read "The Long Walk"?

[August]

Anyone ever read "The Long Walk"?

I have in a Readers Digest collection of short stories. An amazing feat of endurance. I'm talking about the story of Slavomir Rawicz not the Steven King novel.

[fender2610]

I have in a Readers Digest collection of short stories. An amazing feat of endurance. I'm talking about the story of Slavomir Rawicz not the Steven King novel.


Yep, the one by the Polish soldier, a must read for everyone.
I read it when I was 15 or so and it taught me to NEVER QUIT ! EVER !
It actually sent me down another path in life.

[Eichhörnchen]

We had a chat about this one before, in the Book Suggestions thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2263833&postcount=27

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMTI3/z/afoAAOxyNo9Sy3Qi/$_35.JPG (Kindly posted by Dread Knot)

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/Nl31n18.jpg


Not strictly PoW stuff, but I saw this in a shop today; didn't buy it (yet).

Seems he broke in two or three times, with an inmate's help, in order to witness and document the things he'd heard were going on. Incredible but it's a true story...

[Jimbuna]

Yes, good book and the guy was one of the lucky ones who were eventually repatriated to the UK.

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/KarA8rk.jpg


I'd mislaid this when I came to prepare that photo of my stash of books;

published in 1975 by Castle Books of New Jersey;

ISBN: 0 89009 028 9

It contains PoW accounts of escape plus photos of their escape equipment and other paraphernalia.

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/5qtktIo.jpg

Was reminded of this movie yesterday, when I saw it's been digitally restored and re-released.

[Eichhörnchen]

From OSPREY PUBLISHING; ISBN 978-1-84603-583-8

By Michael McNally

I gave this a fresh post because it's important and hasn't been mentioned so far. Lots of photos of the place "then and now" plus a great top-down cutaway artwork showing the whole castle.

[Harvs]

I seen a doco on the telly where they recreated the Colditz glider and launched it off the roof, very cool stuff.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Speaking of Colditz and it's famed glider I snapped this when I visited the castle back in 2010. Now I don't remember if these are the original plans or a copy of them.


http://s6.postimg.org/b963ozj7l/Europe_Trip_462.jpg
I had also just finished reading this:
http://s6.postimg.org/95vohbjep/9781481534291_p0_v1_s260x420.jpg
Strictly speaking Los Baños wasn't a POW camp but a civilian internment camp, although towards the end the civilians where treated much like the POWs in other camps in the Philippines. All things considered the raid was one of the most successful camp liberations in the Pacific. This link is to a video showing the survivors of Los Baños being evacuated by LVTs or Amtracs. http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675040427_Los-Banos-Internment-Camp_internees_burning-barracks_internment-camps

[Eichhörnchen]

You've been to Colditz? I am not worthy...

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

You've been to Colditz? I am not worthy... Yes I've been to Colditz, I wasn't there long but long enough to see the entrance to the French tunnel and the small museum there. Interestingly the part of the castle that housed the garrison is now a hostel. I suppose the jokes on whichever prisoner made up the "Hotel Colditz" poster.

[Eichhörnchen]

I just this morning finished watching the TV series once again, and I noticed in the credits that the camera man was A. A. Englander; unfortunately the sound man wasn't called Schweinhund...

[Eichhörnchen]

Have a gander at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvOfNMUPF1E

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/zZ8oube.jpg ISBN 978-0-7537-2936-6 (Octopus Books)

This is "The Great Escape" story recounted by one of the less famous participants.

[August]

That's neat. I always like these famous stories retold from another persons perspective.

[mako88sb]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bYUXaXWKL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

I read this not too long ago. One of the Doolittle pow's survived hellish conditions but had a chance to read the bible while in solitaire. Incredibly, he vowed to return to Japan as a missionary and that's exactly what he did. I'm not much for religion but found this a pretty amazing book to read.

[Eichhörnchen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gZILkPQXGA

[Eichhörnchen]

I remember picking up a DVD at Tesco recently (I put it back to wait until the price comes down) called Prisoner of War, and starring Jeff Goldblum as the prisoner and Willem Dafoe as the Nazi Kommandant.

Now, searching online, I can find no mention of this movie anywhere; it's not in Jeff Goldblum's movie bibliography and neither is it in Willem Dafoe's (movies.com). Did I dream it?

[August]

Were are you searching? A google of "jeff goldblum prisoner of war" yielded this:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51FuBXC42pL._SY445_.jpg

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Prisoner-War-DVD-Jeff-Goldblum/dp/B01CUD72DC

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[mako88sb]

Were are you searching? A google of "jeff goldblum prisoner of war" yielded this:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51FuBXC42pL._SY445_.jpg



Maybe he dreamed about searching for it unsuccessfully?

[Eichhörnchen]

Thanks guys but that's crazy... the first thing I searched for was "jeff goldblum prisoner of war movie" :haha:

Found it now...

Anyway, what I was going to say was that, in the correct use of the phrase, civilians interned by the Germans in the death camps (or anywhere else for that matter) were not technically 'prisoners of war'; that term should, as I understand it, only be applied to military personnel, and many ex prisoners seeking compensation payable to "Prisoners of War" have had to prove their former status as such before receiving payment.

A good point for debate, to be sure, but I haven't watched this film yet, so it remains to be seen (see what I did there?)

[August]

A good point for debate, to be sure, but I haven't watched this film yet, so it remains to be seen (see what I did there?)

"He that would pun would pick a pocket" but I guess it's the "lesser of of two weevils". :)

[Eichhörnchen]

"Treblinka Survivor" by Mark Smith

The History Press; ISBN no. 978 0 7524 5618 8

Mark Smith's engrossing story of his attempt to discover why the father of a childhood friend took his own life by jumping off a bridge in Scotland, fifty years after he'd finally escaped from perhaps the most horrific nightmare visited on human beings by the Nazis. Again, perhaps not strictly within the remit of my thread, for Treblinka was no PoW camp... it was far worse.

[August]

Again, perhaps not strictly within the remit of my thread, for Treblinka was no PoW camp... it was far worse.

IIRC there were plenty of Soviet POW's run through there.

[Eichhörnchen]

Yes, but to be exterminated rather than incarcerated.

[August]

Yes, but to be exterminated rather than incarcerated.


That was pretty much the story for all Soviet POW's of the Germans, and vice versa. But there were POW survivors I thought.

[Eichhörnchen]

There was a nearby penal camp, so perhaps Russian PoW's were among parties brought in from there for whatever reason; looking back through the book I can find no mention of Russians except among the various nationalities of civilian prisoners.

But the fact is, Treblinka was conceived as an extermination camp, along with Belzec and Sobibor, so I would say not a PoW camp.

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/7vxGkWM.jpg Anyone seen this? I only just discovered it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.O.W._(TV_series)

[Eichhörnchen]

My son's artwork (rediscovered in an old scrap book today) on the theme of 'Colditz'

http://i.imgur.com/kfTFUKJ.jpg

(I'm guessing that's the 'Colditz glider' and a Walther P38? The other two are a bag of golf clubs and one of his school dinnerladies)

[August]

Got a new POW book I just picked up:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2Bn0-DzXDL._SX329_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Story of the Palawan massacre and the survivors escape. I just started it. Will report when I finish. So far it's pretty good.

[Eichhörnchen]

I once lived in a POW camp as a baby, believe it or not. Here's a feature about it by a local history group from my home town. "The Camp", as it was referred to by those who'd stayed there, was apparently built with the help of a Japanese car manufacturer (you'll see what I mean!)

https://tonbridgepeoleandancestry.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/1950-somer-hill-camp-for-homeless.html

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/4dpFCs6.jpg

[Eichhörnchen]

https://i.imgur.com/JPTnIcF.jpg

I saw this in a junk shop the day before yesterday; £14 for this plus some other crappy 1970s game I never heard of. I don't understand why I didn't cough up the 14 quid and chuck the other game in the bin.

I've never played this... is it any good?

[Jimbuna]

https://i.imgur.com/JPTnIcF.jpg

I saw this in a junk shop the day before yesterday; £14 for this plus some other crappy 1970s game I never heard of. I don't understand why I didn't cough up the 14 quid and chuck the other game in the bin.

I've never played this... is it any good?

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=escape+from+colditz+board+gam e

[Eichhörnchen]

http://www.tonbridgehistory.org.uk/archives/war-diary.html

This is a fascinating and unique read, for me not least because Tonbridge is my home town. I've mentioned the Somerhill prison camp before... I actually lived there myself for a while:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2468780&postcount=168

And I've walked the long and beautiful country lane that is Horns Lodge Road (para.5) many times in summers past and know it well. A friend who was a Lancaster tailgunner during the war lived at the top of the road near to the farm, but Horns Lodge Farm was pulled down in quite recent times. Otherwise this lovely place is unchanged since wartime.

[August]

Thanks Eichhörnchen for the link I will check it out.



I finished As Good as Dead awhile back. I found the stories of survival astounding. What the allied prisoners of war had to go though at the hands of the Japanese was just horrific.


Meanwhile I have two more I just added to the Escape Library:

Escape from Davao

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61THLYKsmML._SX328_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

I just started this and so far it is engaging. I'm already familiar with this story having read Melnicks "Philippine Diary".

On deck is this one:
The Longest Winter by Alex Kershaw


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Zl3VXyrYL._SX324_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

[Eichhörnchen]

^ I discovered a new softback retrospective on the 'Bulge' by Charles Whiting in a shop the other day, but didn't pick it up. I think now I'll go back for it.

I checked out the photo pages... it being a new book I reckoned there must be new photos rather than the same old ones we're familiar with. And sure, I didn't recognise any of them, but they were pretty mundane looking.

I'll do you a report later

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

I've owned "Escape From Davao" for sometime now and it's still one of my favorite reads. I recently picked up https://s6.postimg.cc/k7tipc2dt/51_Moh2c_RHc_L._SX326_BO1_204_203_200.jpg
I've also seen the movie but the book is far and away more detailed.

[August]

I've owned "Escape From Davao" for sometime now and it's still one of my favorite reads. I recently picked up https://s6.postimg.cc/k7tipc2dt/51_Moh2c_RHc_L._SX326_BO1_204_203_200.jpg
I've also seen the movie but the book is far and away more detailed.


I read that one awhile back. I had a difficult time feeling empathy for the main character, at least at first. He was such a miserable little brat when he was a kid.

[Eichhörnchen]

ESCAPE TO FREEDOM (1954, Hutchinson & Co Ltd; no ISBN number given)

The Hon. T.C.F. PRITCHIE and Capt W.EARLE EDWARDS

https://i.imgur.com/6KJfFV7.jpg

I came across this by chance today in one of my bookcases... I'd quite forgotten about it (I think it was a gift from a friend who had a second-hand book shop in Boston many years ago)

I don't know whether this is a rare book, but I've not seen or heard anything about it before, and it looks as though it belongs in that canon of fabulous escape books from the post-war period, when the events were still vivid and fresh in the memory

It seems that it will describe experiences and escapes from Warburg Camp, then Spangenburg Castle in Bavaria, by the authors... presumably companions... and I am really looking forward to losing myself in it

[Jimbuna]

^ Copies available here: https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/escape-to-freedom/author/prittie-t-c-f-and-edwards-earle/

[Eichhörnchen]

Thanks... it certainly seems like an important addition to the PoW escape book list

[Platapus]

^ Copies available here: https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/escape-to-freedom/author/prittie-t-c-f-and-edwards-earle/


Abebooks is a dangerous website to visit

Just take all of my money!!!

[Eichhörnchen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spangenberg_Castle_(Hesse)

A sad tale of the fate of an important historical place. I hadn't realised that the original castle was virtually destroyed by a bombing raid shortly after evacuation of the PoWs

[Jimbuna]

Abebooks is a dangerous website to visit

Just take all of my money!!!

I too learned that lesson many moons ago :)

[Eichhörnchen]

Christmas in a WW2 PoW camp

http://www.merkki.com/christmas_and_world_war_ii.htm

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/kriegie-christmas-1944

https://eu.greatfallstribune.com/story/life/my-montana/2014/07/31/christmas-war-pow-recalls-silent-night/13406997/

[Eichhörnchen]

https://i.imgur.com/KGZz4gT.jpg

The most amazing WW2 escape story I've never heard of... Ralph Churches, aka "The Crow"

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/the-flight-of-the-crow-the-greatest-escape-story-never-told-20180314-p4z4e4.html

[Catfish]

Long agao, i know..
Have a Very Kriegie Christmas!
:haha:
No warries :03:

[Eichhörnchen]

https://i.imgur.com/w3IU1Lt.jpg

I just came across this, a PoW movie with a 'true story' tag

"Treats the PoW experience seriously" it says on the box... well I'll let you know



Edit: What a great movie... it's just wonderful! Impeccable production, performances, acting, direction and music... not least the music. I was anticipating at best a capable/bearable PoW yarn with amateur performances and rickety sets... but this just knocked me out completely. A totally magical and immersive film

[August]

Just picked up this one. Technically it's not a POW book as they were never in the custody of the Japanese but they made their bid for escape after the surrender of Corregidor so close enough in my book.



https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51BIddFq1%2BL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

[Eichhörnchen]

I have to get hold of this book sometime:

https://i.imgur.com/nBClfki.jpg

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Password-Courage-John-Castle/dp/0285635875

[August]

That one was made into a movie too!


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/916BvSDaT+L._RI_SX300_.jpg

[Eichhörnchen]

Yes, I was reading an assessment today that said the movie just did not do full justice to the man or his daring deeds... almost as though they feared no-one would believe it

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Yes, I was reading an assessment today that said the movie just did not do full justice to the man or his daring deeds... almost as though they feared no-one would believe it Sadly this is true of most movies based on real events. I've felt that way with The Great Escape having read the book the movie really didn't do the real escape and the job the escapee's did justice.

[Eichhörnchen]

I've had this for a while, picked up in a thrift shop. This is an advance proof copy so no sleeve on it

Subtitled "The untold story of how one French community defied the Nazis and saved thousands of lives"

By Peter Grose; Nicholas Brealey Publishing; ISBN 978 1 857886269


https://i.imgur.com/taNzMVy.jpg

There was a letter from the publisher slipped inside, detailing the book...

Quote: "... the villagers saved the lives of over 5000 men, women and children, many of them Jewish, in full view of the Nazis and the Vichy collaborators. It features an extraordinary cast of characters. They include the.... glamorous female SOE agent with a wooden leg (which she called 'Cuthbert')...." etc

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e15af-1MJhU

[Eichhörnchen]

One for the Christmas list maybe?

https://i.imgur.com/9puLdxB.jpg

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/893142.The_Diggers_Of_Colditz

https://www.amazon.com/Diggers-Colditz-Australian-Completely-Expanded/dp/0864178395

[Jimbuna]

Amazon UK is by far the cheapest Amazon option.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0864178395/ref=x_gr_w_bb?ie=UTF8&tag=x_gr_w_bb_uk-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=6738

[Eichhörnchen]

https://i.imgur.com/6M8kt0B.jpg

I found this in a charity shop today... at first examination it appears to deal mostly with prisoners of the Japanese

Published by Aurum, 2011

ISBN 978 84513 629 1

[Eichhörnchen]

https://i.imgur.com/U8qYOWO.jpg

Another charity shop find in Horncastle yesterday... it professes to avoid the best-known stories and concentrate instead on the groups who aided the escapers

Published by Arms & Armour Press in 1997

ISBN 1-85409-293-6


Perhaps Jim could kindly set up an index for the books we're beginning to collect here now (like the one in the beer thread) and make it easier to find these posts

[Eichhörnchen]

Not forgetting, in this special week, the brave contribution of these lads, who tied up valuable enemy resources by scarpering whenever they could

@ the beast... guys such as your uncle and your tail-gunner workmate :salute:

[Eichhörnchen]

https://i.imgur.com/lRP9pNy.jpg Found on eBay today and ordered (only £5.84)... looks promising

[Eichhörnchen]

https://i.imgur.com/ZHNinGL.jpg

I do include accounts of the Nazis' civilian camps along with PoW camps in this thread and this is going to be a priority read:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Escape-Artist-Broke-Auschwitz-World/dp/1529369045

[August]

Nice!

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

I've managed to get the trilogy of books written by Airey Neave.
https://i.postimg.cc/5tf4XLMz/9780850529975-48.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/NjqfwZJp/91-HZD1-Jhi-OL.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zGCDDp45/23822724-UY630-SR1200-630.jpg
I also got "The Last Escaper" by Peter Tunstall.

https://i.postimg.cc/jdNnNHB3/512i9n4-Puk-L-SX334-BO1-204-203-200.jpg
I found it quite interesting to read the accounts of two POW's who where in the same camps (although not always the same time) other then Colditz. Neave was a Royal Army officer who was captured in Calais after having being sent there during the final days of the fall of France in 1940. His writing after being captured was one of depression, sadness and failure which continued up until he made a "home run" during an escape with a Dutch officer. Neave nearly gave the game away by doing something that while today would see quite absurd was the reality then, he was almost caught for eating a bar of chocolate! Tunstall by contrast was a Handley Page bomber pilot who crash landed on the Dutch coast after an error in navigation caused him to land on a beach due to running out of fuel (the navigator was related to Lord Haw Haw and it was this same navigator who swore that they where over the Irish coast), in spite of a number of escape attempts Tunstall never successfully managed to escape but did rack up 415 consecutive days in the "cooler" manly for a past time known as "Goon Baiting" or in other words annoying the out of Jerry even at gunpoint. Tunstall offers a contrast to Neave as well aside from them being from different parts of the British military, their stories while being intertwined are very much light and dark.

[August]

This is an expensive thread for me to visit. Now please excuse me I got to do some online book shopping! :)

[les green01]

I watch the older movies and shows I knew a guy that was a b-24 gunner that was shot down and captured he owned the General store made the best sandwiches ever had

[Eichhörnchen]

I've managed to get the trilogy of books written by Airey Neave.... I also got "The Last Escaper" by Peter Tunstall

Thanks - I had no idea about any of these books, so I'm with August!

Ironically - given all he'd been through - Neave came to a sad and violent end at the hands of the IRA

[Jimbuna]

Yes, most tragic circumstance....I later worked alongside two of those tasked with investigating the matter.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Yes, most tragic circumstance....I later worked alongside two of those tasked with investigating the matter. I read about that, didn't the IRA put a type of bomb under his car so when it went up the ramp from the underground car park it went off?

[Jimbuna]

I read about that, didn't the IRA put a type of bomb under his car so when it went up the ramp from the underground car park it went off?

Something along them lines but I don't believe the exact details were publicly released, at least not at the time.

[Eichhörnchen]

I have to get hold of this book sometime:

https://i.imgur.com/nBClfki.jpg

I got it today. I might not bother with the movie having discovered that it's a comedy!! :timeout::timeout::timeout:

I can't imagine why they would think it a good idea to make this into a piece of whimsy for Dirk Bogarde

[August]

I got it today. I might not bother with the movie having discovered that it's a comedy!! :timeout::timeout::timeout:

I can't imagine why they would think it a good idea to make this into a piece of whimsy for Dirk Bogarde




It's a dark comedy.

[Eichhörnchen]

^ Thanks - I'll check it out

[Armistead]

I picked an old abandoned house and found basically everything of the two sons that served in the army during WW2. One was captured and a German POW and sent many letters from prison. He actually lived in the family home to work the farm until the day he died in the 80s. Found a mass of letters, his foot locker, some German Nazi stuff I guess he brought back home, his uniforms, a mass of all his war stuff. Here is a letter his brother wrote to mom when they found out he went missing. It was a few months before they found out he was alive and POW.

Dearest Mother - Nov.21, 1944
I will try to write you a few lines tonight as I am thinking of you and wondering how you are by now. I know everyone at home is sick about Tom though I thought maybe I could get to come home, but the Red Cross let me know this afternoon that I cannot get a emergency furlough.
Seems like I might as well forget that I was ever human, as long as I have to stay in the army a fellow isn't considered as human anyway. Maybe this rotten mess will end some day though.
I received your letter yesterday but was on guard last nite and didn't get to do any writing? When was the last letter you had from Tom written. I still have hopes that we will hear he is alive.
I have to attend school most every day but I just cannot seem to get my mind on the class. Guess I won't get very much out of going but I sometime wonder what's the use anyway.
How is Helen by this time?
Do you know if aunt Lillie still hears from all the boys right often these days?
Tell the rest I'll write to them as soon as I can.
I don't know of anything I want you to get for me "Mom" but thanks a million anyway.
Try to take care of yourself Mom and write when you can.
Love to all
Herbert.

[August]

I picked an old abandoned house and found basically everything of the two sons that served in the army during WW2. One was captured and a German POW and sent many letters from prison. He actually lived in the family home to work the farm until the day he died in the 80s. Found a mass of letters, his foot locker, some German Nazi stuff I guess he brought back home, his uniforms, a mass of all his war stuff. Here is a letter his brother wrote to mom when they found out he went missing. It was a few months before they found out he was alive and POW.

Dearest Mother - Nov.21, 1944
I will try to write you a few lines tonight as I am thinking of you and wondering how you are by now. I know everyone at home is sick about Tom though I thought maybe I could get to come home, but the Red Cross let me know this afternoon that I cannot get a emergency furlough.
Seems like I might as well forget that I was ever human, as long as I have to stay in the army a fellow isn't considered as human anyway. Maybe this rotten mess will end some day though.
I received your letter yesterday but was on guard last nite and didn't get to do any writing? When was the last letter you had from Tom written. I still have hopes that we will hear he is alive.
I have to attend school most every day but I just cannot seem to get my mind on the class. Guess I won't get very much out of going but I sometime wonder what's the use anyway.
How is Helen by this time?
Do you know if aunt Lillie still hears from all the boys right often these days?
Tell the rest I'll write to them as soon as I can.
I don't know of anything I want you to get for me "Mom" but thanks a million anyway.
Try to take care of yourself Mom and write when you can.
Love to all
Herbert.


What do you intend to do with all that stuff?

[Eichhörnchen]

Moira came home with this today - she planned to give it me for Christmas but then had second thoughts. Didn't want me choking on my turkey I guess

https://i.imgur.com/h81du0I.jpg ISBN 978 1 52670 187 9

Author: Philip D Chinnery

Publisher: Pen & Sword (Military)

[August]

Cool. That reminds me to mention that I just finished this:

[mapuc]

Eichhörnchen Post about this book his wife gave him made me remember a book I once borrowed on our local library, many many years ago.

I was looking for something interesting to read. I couldn't decide if it has to be history and what kind history(Mostly I borrowed books about military or religious history) or science.

While walking around at the library I saw this book-With the title(From memory)

How life was lived during 30's Germany/Living under/in Hitler's Germany

I borrowed it and it was the best book I had read in a decade.

It was about how ordinary German lived during the 30's and beginning of the 40's Hitler's Germany.

A scene from the book-
Place somewhere outside Cologne
A shop is being demolished by people and some member of Hitler Jugend/Young SS. Police arrive to..no not to stop them from harassing the shop owner, no they came to hold back other citizens.

If I only knew(remember) the exact title.

Edit
I remember more from this book. Following showed how the Nazi's looked at handicapped people.
One one of the pages there was a black and white illustration of a man without a leg sitting in a wheelchair with following text below.
Again from memory
should this man be allowed to burden our community.
End edit

Markus

[Eichhörnchen]

Thanks for that, August I must have that too :yep:

[Eichhörnchen]

How life was lived during 30's Germany/Living under/in Hitler's Germany... If I only knew(remember) the exact title.

Markus

Those events came to be known as "Kristallnacht", when Jewish shops and business premises were attacked and burned

You've reminded me again about a book I saw in a shop which traced the story of a Jewish family right through the rise of the Nazis to their ultimate end in the camps

It was a huge book and quite a lot of money even though second-hand, so I left it. I really still often wish I'd bought that book as I cannot remember the name of it either

[blackswan40]

I'm a real sucker for anything PoW: really enjoy pc games Prisoner of War and The Great Escape, all the films plus no end of books. Does anyone remember Hogan's Heroes? (I know they're out on DVD but not sure whether in UK-playable format).

In which film was a character heard to say "Why don't we take our time and get the lot?"


Could the film in question be devils brigade when the Americans are in the same bar as the Canucs and its abbout to kick off then the lumberjacks crash the bar.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyYcIc9qlKg

[August]

Could the film in question be devils brigade when the Americans are in the same bar as the Canucs and its abbout to kick off then the lumberjacks crash the bar.


I think you might have the right movie but the wrong scene. Wasn't that line said just before they captured the whole town of German troops from the general on down to the cooks?

[Eichhörnchen]

Nope - Leo Genn said this to Anthony Steele in the British PoW movie "The Wooden Horse"

[Eichhörnchen]

https://i.imgur.com/lHCPuTe.jpg

RIP Robert Clary :Kaleun_Salute:

[Aktungbby]

he looks better in his beret than either of us!:O:

[August]

he looks better in his beret than either of us!:O:




He wore his beret like a Frenchman.

[Eichhörnchen]

We know that half of what you see in a war movie is often a condensing of or even a massaging of the truth - here are a few titbits about The Great Escape (it seems it wasn't the ony one)

https://www.historyextra.com/period/second-world-war/five-myths-of-the-ww2-great-escape/

[Eichhörnchen]

This was originally an Xbox game then released for Playstation2 and PC. I played it through years ago on PS2 and then PC but of course the graphics are the same - the main difference being that on the PC you get much more control, plus the opportunity to play in First Person view.

Graphics - particularly the AI characters - are dated but still very good; once you get into it you soon don't notice anymore anyway, and the environments - including the amazing music - are terrific. The rendering of Colditz castle as one of these had me hooked straight away and although I saw one reviewer criticise the cod-German accents I found this an endearing touch to what's all meant to be some fun anyway (no violence in this game - the guards only shoot if you give them no choice and then you only wake up in a hospital bed). The contemporary reviews were all enthusiastic, as I recall, including that guy's. The emphasis in on stealth and stealing what you need for the various escape missions - you don't fight anyone

Here's a run-through which came out to showcase Xbox release

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpWpjJShC_Q

[August]

Found this at the local book donation bin at Hannifords last time I was up in Maine:


Short but very engaging story:


https://i.imgur.com/ZcpdEqJ.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/hlIBY1r.jpg

[Aktungbby]

A U.S. airman teamed with a Romanian noble to save 1,161 Americans during World War II.

Lieutenant Colonel James A. Gunn III was on his hands and knees, stuffed into a cramped, dark, and cold compartment on an Me-109G-6. The space had been designed to hold radio equipment, not a large man in a bulky flight jacket, but he had squeezed in through an 18-inch-square metal door. That door was his only way out, and there was no latch on the inside. Though the plane was flying at 19,000 feet over the Adriatic Sea, Gunn had no parachute, no oxygen equipment. His fate lay largely in the hands of the pilot, a Romanian ace—a prince, no less— credited with shooting down dozens of Allied planes, including an American B-24. Enemies only days before, the two men had now conspired to steal the Me-109 from an airfield outside Bucharest.

How a U.S. pilot came to be flying in a stolen German plane with a Romanian of royal bloodlines is one of World War II’s wildest tales. The story would end with the rescue of more than 1,100 Amer ican airmen once held as POWs. But it started with the 32- year-old Gunn, commanding officer of the Army Air Force’s 454th Bombardment Group, and the gamble he took to save his men.

Ten days earlier, on August 17, 1944, Gunn had led a squadron of B-24s in an attack by more than 200 U.S. bombers on Romanian oil refineries at Ploesti that were fueling Germany’s war machine. This was the 23rd mission against Ploesti, and more than 280 Amer ican bombers had already been lost, along with 2,829 air men captured or killed. Gunn’s plane was brought down, and he was captured and taken to a large POW compound in Bucharest.

Within a few days, Gunn and the other prisoners found themselves caught in the middle of a firefight—this time between Romania and Germany. Romania’s longtime fascist dictator, General Ion Antonescu, had backed Adolf Hitler in the war, supplying more troops for the Eastern Front than all of Germany’s other allies combined. But the country’s ruler, King Michael, a teenager at the war’s start, had made frequent pleas for peace and won support in his country’s military and government. By late August 1944, with Germany reeling and Soviet forces advancing on Romania, the king confronted Antonescu and demanded his resignation.

“What—and leave the country in the hands of a child?” Antonescu replied. The king had the general arrested, a provisional government was formed, and Romania threw its support to the Allies.
he American prisoners, assuming they would soon be free, were ecstatic when they heard the news. But they quickly realized there were new dangers. What if the Germans moved them to other POW camps? Or executed them on the spot? When the Russians arrived in Bucharest, a fight with the remaining Germans would be inevitable, with the Americans caught in between. As if that were not enough, German aircraft launched bombing raids on Bucharest.

Some of the airmen were now held in a ski resort in the Transylvanian Alps. To keep these men safe from German reprisals, Romanian soldiers moved them to a remote nearby village, Pietro sita, where they joined the locals in a raucous celebration of Romania’s changing fortunes. Several of the men had formed a jazz band in prison and offered to play. They started with the hit song “Flat Foot Floogie,” a jazz tune even the Romanians knew, and many young women of Pietro sita jumped up to dance. “The party went on until the early morning hours,” Lieutenant Richard Britt remembered. “American-Romanian relations were firmly cemented that night.”

There were no parties for the POWs in Bucharest. The Romanian guards returned to the Americans their guns but cautioned against wandering around town. That did not stop two lieutenants, Henry Lasco and Martin Roth. They left the compound one night despite hearing rifle shots, commands barked in German, and pounding footfalls. In the dark, Lasco banged his head against something, only to discover it was the boot of a German soldier who had been hanged from a lamppost.

As the two men passed one doorway, they were grabbed and dragged inside by a group of Romanians who hugged and kissed them. “The Americans are with us!” they shouted. The young officers decided they would be safer back at the POW camp.

German He-111s continued bombing the city, spreading chaos. The compound was hit several times, killing at least five Americans and wounding several dozen more. Four prisoners were killed by a German soldier who walked into a crowded restaurant and opened fire. Many POWs were stricken with dysentery but could not find medical help. Staff Sergeant Harry Fritz, who had been a tail gunner, was so sick he could barely move. “I was ready to break physically and emotionally,” he said. Other POWs fled into the city. Some received food and shelter from residents, but others roamed the streets, not knowing where to go or what to do.
As the senior officer at the POW compound, James Gunn was responsible for the men. Determined to get them someplace safe, he contacted Romania’s minister of war and asked permission to fly to one of the American bases in Italy “to make known our situation.” The Romanians agreed, and on the morning of August 26, only nine days after he had been shot down, Gunn was driven to Popesti airfield, a few miles south of Bucharest. The aircraft waiting for him was an old, run-down SM-79 bomber. It didn’t look as if it would make it off the runway. Nor did the pilot inspire confidence. He did not speak English and acted afraid of Gunn—and of flying the plane to Italy. They took off, but within 20 minutes the pilot turned back, claiming there was engine trouble, though everything sounded fine to Gunn.

Back on the ground, Gunn was puzzling over what to do next when a handsome, rakish Romanian air force pilot walked up and made an astonishing offer. “Colonel,” the man said in flawless English, “if you will crawl into the belly of a Messerschmitt 109, I will fly you to Italy.”

The pilot was 38-year-old Captain Constantin Cantacuzino, Romania’s leading ace. Born into a wealthy family of nobles descended from a ruler of the Byzantine Empire, Bazu (“Buzz”), as he was nicknamed, had demonstrated early in life a keen ability to work hard and excel at just about anything. He was an adventurer and a playboy, yet he carried himself with great class. The prince enjoyed many sports, often paying handsomely for training and equipment. He won motorcycle competitions and even set a world record in a Paris-to-Bucharest race, riding for 44 hours. He excelled at tennis and captained the Romanian ice hockey team at the 1933 world championships.

But his primary love, aside from women, was flying. He had won aerobatic contests in his biplane, a Bü-133 Jungmeister. In the late 1930s and early 1940s, Cantacuzino flew throughout Europe, first as pilot for the president of the International Aviation Federation and then as the chief pilot of Romania’s air transport company, LARES. He joined the Romanian air force in 1941 and flew more than 600 combat missions, with at least 43 confirmed kills. Now, talking with Gunn, he outlined a bold gambit: Though he didn’t even have a map, he would fly the Me-109 over German territory and land at an American air base in Italy. The last few miles would be very dangerous: With the plane’s radio removed to make room for Gunn, Cantacuzino could not tell the Americans that the approaching German aircraft was a friendly.

Despite the obvious risks, Gunn jumped at the offer. He sketched on a piece of cardboard the route to the U.S. airfield at San Giovanni, hundreds of miles away in southern Italy, marking the position of antiaircraft guns and barrage balloons he remembered from his Ploesti mission. Large American flags were painted on the Me-109’s fuselage, and airfield workers spent much of August 27 servicing the plane for a departure on the morning of the 28th.
As preparations continued, Cantacuzino grew worried that word of their scheme had spread. German fighters might be waiting at takeoff. The Romanian proposed that they continue to talk as though leaving on the 28th, but instead depart as soon as the plane was ready.

The two put on quite a show to keep their new plan a secret. Late on the afternoon of August 27, Gunn put on a thick leather flight jacket and climbed inside the radio compartment, pretending he was checking to make sure he could fit in the tight space. As soon as he was settled, Cantacuzino closed the panel door, tightened the fasteners, and jumped into the cockpit. Revving the engines, he taxied down the grass field and soared off, leaving onlookers confused.

For the next few hours, Gunn huddled inside the dark and noisy compartment. It vibrated constantly and often violently. As the plane reached 19,000 feet, the lack of oxygen brought on hypoxia; Gunn grew dizzy, his thinking became sluggish, and he had trouble breathing. The higher altitude also exposed him to intense cold. “It wasn’t a pleasant flight,” he said later.

With no window, Gunn also was disoriented; he could not even tell if they were flying over land or water. Feeling around the compartment, he discovered a small, hinged metal plate on the fuselage. When he moved the plate, it revealed a peephole to the outside and the world below. Before long, he felt the plane lose altitude as Cantacuzino began a long, slow descent. They had crossed German territory and entered airspace over Allied-held lands. Now came the flight’s most dangerous moment: Would antiaircraft gunners open fire on the familiar, distinctive shape of the Me-109?

Before taking off, Gunn had told Cantacuzino how to approach the airfield. The Romanian followed those instructions, lowering the flaps and landing gear, reducing speed, and wagging the wings from side to side. The American guns remained silent as the Me-109 touched down, but each was trained on the plane all the way down.
Cantacuzino brought the plane to a stop, opened the cockpit canopy, and stepped out smiling. Heavily armed MPs surrounded him, along with a crowd of curious spectators. He grinned and raised his hands in the air.

“Gentlemen,” he said, “I have a wonderful gift for you. Will someone get me a screwdriver?”

A mechanic handed him the tool. He loosened the fasteners and opened the door to the radio compartment, revealing a pair of regulation U.S. Army Air Force boots.

Gunn slowly backed out of the space. As he stretched and stood up, a few people recognized him and broke into applause. It was 7:40 in the evening of August 27. Colonel James Gunn was safe.

Two days later, at 8 a.m., Cantacuzino pushed forward the throttle of an American P-51B Mustang, which he had learned to fly in a matter of hours. He was going back to Romania in formation with other P-51s flown by crack U.S. pilots who had orders to shoot him down if he made any suspicious move. Arriving at Popesti, while the other fighters circled overhead, Cantacuzino landed, then fired a yellow flare to signal that the field was still under Romanian control. Word was passed to Italy, and just past noon, two B-17s escorted by 32 fighters left for Romania.
A mission dubbed Operation Gunn was under way. Aboard the bombers was a 12-man Office of Strategic Services team. They were to round up the POWs spread around Bucharest and the nearby countryside, then take them to the Popesti airfield. The team was equipped with food and medical supplies; Romania’s secretary of state promised help, including trucks, buses, and cars to transport the POWs.

News of the pending rescue spread quietly by word of mouth: “Tomorrow morning. Be at Popesti Airdrome. We’re leaving.” Any public announcement would have alerted the Germans.

In Italy, three dozen more B-17s were being readied for the rescue mission and carrying large numbers of POWs. Crews stripped the planes of nonessentials, including most of the guns and ammunition. Plywood was laid over the inside of the bomb bay doors. Each plane would carry a crew of six, rather than the usual 10, as there were no bombs to drop and few guns to fire.

The first dozen B-17s left Italy at 8 a.m. on August 31, with the others to follow each hour in groups of 12. More than 250 P-38 and P-51 fighter planes accompanied the flight.

At Popesti, the POWs gathered on the runway in groups of 20, with precisely 150 feet separating each. Tail gunner Fritz remembered they looked like a “ragtag bunch: some in dirty, faded uniforms; some in bits of civilian clothing; some wearing enemy helmets and carrying souvenirs; some in possession of more bottles of wine than it appeared they could carry.”

As each bomber landed, it taxied to the head of a group, cut its engines, and took the 20 passengers into the bomb bay. The pilots immediately restarted their engines and took off.

The men were silent as the planes roared down the field. They had no parachutes. They were about to fly over enemy territory with no way out of the plane, memories of being shot down at Ploesti still fresh.

“We were all nervous,” Lieutenant Richard Britt said. “It was the first time we had been close to a plane since [the] raid. We all remembered our last flight ended in a crash.” Any unusual air turbulence or odd sounds from the engines set their nerves jangling.

All the planes were loaded and airborne again in approximately 30 minutes. More than 700 Americans were ferried to safety that first day. The mission continued until September 3, when all 1,161 Americans were evacuated. Famed Tuskegee pilots flew some of the fighter escorts.

The operation was carried out with incredible precision; not a single man was lost. Thanks to a dashing playboy prince and a determined American pilot, the rescue rates as one of history’s greatest.

The postwar lives of the two heroes of this story took very different paths. Gunn remained in the Air Force until his retirement in 1967 and went on to a successful career in real estate in San Antonio, Texas. He died in 1999. In Romania, Cantacuzino fell on hard times. The Soviet-backed communists who came to power after the war confiscated his property. In 1947 he managed to leave the country for Italy, where his wife at the time (he had had many) was filming a movie. He later went to France and Spain and earned some fame performing in air shows. By 1950, he was bankrupt and began flying old American biplanes as a crop duster. Though he made enough money to buy an acrobatic plane and perform in air shows again, he died on May 26, 1958, following unsuccessful surgery for an ulcer. He was 53.

Sadly, Cantacuzino had tried for many years to obtain a U.S. visa but was repeatedly denied. Somehow the man who had helped save hundreds of American lives was not allowed to come to the country for which he had risked so much.

[August]

A U.S. airman teamed with a Romanian noble to save 1,161 Americans during World War II.

Lieutenant Colonel James A. Gunn III was on his hands and knees, stuffed into a cramped, dark, and cold compartment on an Me-109G-6. The space had been designed to hold radio equipment, not a large man in a bulky flight jacket, but he had squeezed in through an 18-inch-square metal door. That door was his only way out, and there was no latch on the inside. Though the plane was flying at 19,000 feet over the Adriatic Sea, Gunn had no parachute, no oxygen equipment. His fate lay largely in the hands of the pilot, a Romanian ace—a prince, no less— credited with shooting down dozens of Allied planes, including an American B-24. Enemies only days before, the two men had now conspired to steal the Me-109 from an airfield outside Bucharest.

How a U.S. pilot came to be flying in a stolen German plane with a Romanian of royal bloodlines is one of World War II’s wildest tales. The story would end with the rescue of more than 1,100 Amer ican airmen once held as POWs. But it started with the 32- year-old Gunn, commanding officer of the Army Air Force’s 454th Bombardment Group, and the gamble he took to save his men.

Ten days earlier, on August 17, 1944, Gunn had led a squadron of B-24s in an attack by more than 200 U.S. bombers on Romanian oil refineries at Ploesti that were fueling Germany’s war machine. This was the 23rd mission against Ploesti, and more than 280 Amer ican bombers had already been lost, along with 2,829 air men captured or killed. Gunn’s plane was brought down, and he was captured and taken to a large POW compound in Bucharest.

Within a few days, Gunn and the other prisoners found themselves caught in the middle of a firefight—this time between Romania and Germany. Romania’s longtime fascist dictator, General Ion Antonescu, had backed Adolf Hitler in the war, supplying more troops for the Eastern Front than all of Germany’s other allies combined. But the country’s ruler, King Michael, a teenager at the war’s start, had made frequent pleas for peace and won support in his country’s military and government. By late August 1944, with Germany reeling and Soviet forces advancing on Romania, the king confronted Antonescu and demanded his resignation.

“What—and leave the country in the hands of a child?” Antonescu replied. The king had the general arrested, a provisional government was formed, and Romania threw its support to the Allies.
he American prisoners, assuming they would soon be free, were ecstatic when they heard the news. But they quickly realized there were new dangers. What if the Germans moved them to other POW camps? Or executed them on the spot? When the Russians arrived in Bucharest, a fight with the remaining Germans would be inevitable, with the Americans caught in between. As if that were not enough, German aircraft launched bombing raids on Bucharest.

Some of the airmen were now held in a ski resort in the Transylvanian Alps. To keep these men safe from German reprisals, Romanian soldiers moved them to a remote nearby village, Pietro sita, where they joined the locals in a raucous celebration of Romania’s changing fortunes. Several of the men had formed a jazz band in prison and offered to play. They started with the hit song “Flat Foot Floogie,” a jazz tune even the Romanians knew, and many young women of Pietro sita jumped up to dance. “The party went on until the early morning hours,” Lieutenant Richard Britt remembered. “American-Romanian relations were firmly cemented that night.”

There were no parties for the POWs in Bucharest. The Romanian guards returned to the Americans their guns but cautioned against wandering around town. That did not stop two lieutenants, Henry Lasco and Martin Roth. They left the compound one night despite hearing rifle shots, commands barked in German, and pounding footfalls. In the dark, Lasco banged his head against something, only to discover it was the boot of a German soldier who had been hanged from a lamppost.

As the two men passed one doorway, they were grabbed and dragged inside by a group of Romanians who hugged and kissed them. “The Americans are with us!” they shouted. The young officers decided they would be safer back at the POW camp.

German He-111s continued bombing the city, spreading chaos. The compound was hit several times, killing at least five Americans and wounding several dozen more. Four prisoners were killed by a German soldier who walked into a crowded restaurant and opened fire. Many POWs were stricken with dysentery but could not find medical help. Staff Sergeant Harry Fritz, who had been a tail gunner, was so sick he could barely move. “I was ready to break physically and emotionally,” he said. Other POWs fled into the city. Some received food and shelter from residents, but others roamed the streets, not knowing where to go or what to do.
As the senior officer at the POW compound, James Gunn was responsible for the men. Determined to get them someplace safe, he contacted Romania’s minister of war and asked permission to fly to one of the American bases in Italy “to make known our situation.” The Romanians agreed, and on the morning of August 26, only nine days after he had been shot down, Gunn was driven to Popesti airfield, a few miles south of Bucharest. The aircraft waiting for him was an old, run-down SM-79 bomber. It didn’t look as if it would make it off the runway. Nor did the pilot inspire confidence. He did not speak English and acted afraid of Gunn—and of flying the plane to Italy. They took off, but within 20 minutes the pilot turned back, claiming there was engine trouble, though everything sounded fine to Gunn.

Back on the ground, Gunn was puzzling over what to do next when a handsome, rakish Romanian air force pilot walked up and made an astonishing offer. “Colonel,” the man said in flawless English, “if you will crawl into the belly of a Messerschmitt 109, I will fly you to Italy.”

The pilot was 38-year-old Captain Constantin Cantacuzino, Romania’s leading ace. Born into a wealthy family of nobles descended from a ruler of the Byzantine Empire, Bazu (“Buzz”), as he was nicknamed, had demonstrated early in life a keen ability to work hard and excel at just about anything. He was an adventurer and a playboy, yet he carried himself with great class. The prince enjoyed many sports, often paying handsomely for training and equipment. He won motorcycle competitions and even set a world record in a Paris-to-Bucharest race, riding for 44 hours. He excelled at tennis and captained the Romanian ice hockey team at the 1933 world championships.

But his primary love, aside from women, was flying. He had won aerobatic contests in his biplane, a Bü-133 Jungmeister. In the late 1930s and early 1940s, Cantacuzino flew throughout Europe, first as pilot for the president of the International Aviation Federation and then as the chief pilot of Romania’s air transport company, LARES. He joined the Romanian air force in 1941 and flew more than 600 combat missions, with at least 43 confirmed kills. Now, talking with Gunn, he outlined a bold gambit: Though he didn’t even have a map, he would fly the Me-109 over German territory and land at an American air base in Italy. The last few miles would be very dangerous: With the plane’s radio removed to make room for Gunn, Cantacuzino could not tell the Americans that the approaching German aircraft was a friendly.

Despite the obvious risks, Gunn jumped at the offer. He sketched on a piece of cardboard the route to the U.S. airfield at San Giovanni, hundreds of miles away in southern Italy, marking the position of antiaircraft guns and barrage balloons he remembered from his Ploesti mission. Large American flags were painted on the Me-109’s fuselage, and airfield workers spent much of August 27 servicing the plane for a departure on the morning of the 28th.
As preparations continued, Cantacuzino grew worried that word of their scheme had spread. German fighters might be waiting at takeoff. The Romanian proposed that they continue to talk as though leaving on the 28th, but instead depart as soon as the plane was ready.

The two put on quite a show to keep their new plan a secret. Late on the afternoon of August 27, Gunn put on a thick leather flight jacket and climbed inside the radio compartment, pretending he was checking to make sure he could fit in the tight space. As soon as he was settled, Cantacuzino closed the panel door, tightened the fasteners, and jumped into the cockpit. Revving the engines, he taxied down the grass field and soared off, leaving onlookers confused.

For the next few hours, Gunn huddled inside the dark and noisy compartment. It vibrated constantly and often violently. As the plane reached 19,000 feet, the lack of oxygen brought on hypoxia; Gunn grew dizzy, his thinking became sluggish, and he had trouble breathing. The higher altitude also exposed him to intense cold. “It wasn’t a pleasant flight,” he said later.

With no window, Gunn also was disoriented; he could not even tell if they were flying over land or water. Feeling around the compartment, he discovered a small, hinged metal plate on the fuselage. When he moved the plate, it revealed a peephole to the outside and the world below. Before long, he felt the plane lose altitude as Cantacuzino began a long, slow descent. They had crossed German territory and entered airspace over Allied-held lands. Now came the flight’s most dangerous moment: Would antiaircraft gunners open fire on the familiar, distinctive shape of the Me-109?

Before taking off, Gunn had told Cantacuzino how to approach the airfield. The Romanian followed those instructions, lowering the flaps and landing gear, reducing speed, and wagging the wings from side to side. The American guns remained silent as the Me-109 touched down, but each was trained on the plane all the way down.
Cantacuzino brought the plane to a stop, opened the cockpit canopy, and stepped out smiling. Heavily armed MPs surrounded him, along with a crowd of curious spectators. He grinned and raised his hands in the air.

“Gentlemen,” he said, “I have a wonderful gift for you. Will someone get me a screwdriver?”

A mechanic handed him the tool. He loosened the fasteners and opened the door to the radio compartment, revealing a pair of regulation U.S. Army Air Force boots.

Gunn slowly backed out of the space. As he stretched and stood up, a few people recognized him and broke into applause. It was 7:40 in the evening of August 27. Colonel James Gunn was safe.

Two days later, at 8 a.m., Cantacuzino pushed forward the throttle of an American P-51B Mustang, which he had learned to fly in a matter of hours. He was going back to Romania in formation with other P-51s flown by crack U.S. pilots who had orders to shoot him down if he made any suspicious move. Arriving at Popesti, while the other fighters circled overhead, Cantacuzino landed, then fired a yellow flare to signal that the field was still under Romanian control. Word was passed to Italy, and just past noon, two B-17s escorted by 32 fighters left for Romania.
A mission dubbed Operation Gunn was under way. Aboard the bombers was a 12-man Office of Strategic Services team. They were to round up the POWs spread around Bucharest and the nearby countryside, then take them to the Popesti airfield. The team was equipped with food and medical supplies; Romania’s secretary of state promised help, including trucks, buses, and cars to transport the POWs.

News of the pending rescue spread quietly by word of mouth: “Tomorrow morning. Be at Popesti Airdrome. We’re leaving.” Any public announcement would have alerted the Germans.

In Italy, three dozen more B-17s were being readied for the rescue mission and carrying large numbers of POWs. Crews stripped the planes of nonessentials, including most of the guns and ammunition. Plywood was laid over the inside of the bomb bay doors. Each plane would carry a crew of six, rather than the usual 10, as there were no bombs to drop and few guns to fire.

The first dozen B-17s left Italy at 8 a.m. on August 31, with the others to follow each hour in groups of 12. More than 250 P-38 and P-51 fighter planes accompanied the flight.

At Popesti, the POWs gathered on the runway in groups of 20, with precisely 150 feet separating each. Tail gunner Fritz remembered they looked like a “ragtag bunch: some in dirty, faded uniforms; some in bits of civilian clothing; some wearing enemy helmets and carrying souvenirs; some in possession of more bottles of wine than it appeared they could carry.”

As each bomber landed, it taxied to the head of a group, cut its engines, and took the 20 passengers into the bomb bay. The pilots immediately restarted their engines and took off.

The men were silent as the planes roared down the field. They had no parachutes. They were about to fly over enemy territory with no way out of the plane, memories of being shot down at Ploesti still fresh.

“We were all nervous,” Lieutenant Richard Britt said. “It was the first time we had been close to a plane since [the] raid. We all remembered our last flight ended in a crash.” Any unusual air turbulence or odd sounds from the engines set their nerves jangling.

All the planes were loaded and airborne again in approximately 30 minutes. More than 700 Americans were ferried to safety that first day. The mission continued until September 3, when all 1,161 Americans were evacuated. Famed Tuskegee pilots flew some of the fighter escorts.

The operation was carried out with incredible precision; not a single man was lost. Thanks to a dashing playboy prince and a determined American pilot, the rescue rates as one of history’s greatest.

The postwar lives of the two heroes of this story took very different paths. Gunn remained in the Air Force until his retirement in 1967 and went on to a successful career in real estate in San Antonio, Texas. He died in 1999. In Romania, Cantacuzino fell on hard times. The Soviet-backed communists who came to power after the war confiscated his property. In 1947 he managed to leave the country for Italy, where his wife at the time (he had had many) was filming a movie. He later went to France and Spain and earned some fame performing in air shows. By 1950, he was bankrupt and began flying old American biplanes as a crop duster. Though he made enough money to buy an acrobatic plane and perform in air shows again, he died on May 26, 1958, following unsuccessful surgery for an ulcer. He was 53.

Sadly, Cantacuzino had tried for many years to obtain a U.S. visa but was repeatedly denied. Somehow the man who had helped save hundreds of American lives was not allowed to come to the country for which he had risked so much.







Covered extensively in the book.

[em2nought]

Found this at the local book donation bin at Hannifords last time I was up in Maine:


Short but very engaging story:


https://i.imgur.com/ZcpdEqJ.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/hlIBY1r.jpg

Just tonight I read that Dick Van Dyke was in USAAF pilot training when it was determined more pilots wouldn't be needed. Since he really didn't want to be a tailgunner in a B-24 he joined the army's entertainment division. So he said he basically became an actor due to cowardice. My father was in the same position, pilots not needing trained anymore, so my father somehow became a parachute packer instead of a tailgunner. The story about Dick Van Dyke also mentioned that apparently the ball gunner position was the safest position of all, but maybe not the most comfortable. :D

Thread is too long to see if I mentioned this before, but in 8th grade I created an artist's representation of Colditz for a book report on "Escape from Colditz". Not sure it was accurate, but it looked pretty cool if I do say so myself. :hmmm:

I'm not sure I could say which is my favorite "The Great Escape" or "Stalag 17", they'd probably both belong in my top twenty movies I would choose if I had to sit in a room watching the same movies over and over again for eternity. :D

[Eichhörnchen]

I never ever thought we'd manage to get Dick Van Dyke into this thread - but thanks, guys :haha::Kaleun_Salute:

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

I just recently re-read the book "No Picnic on Mount Kenya" by Felice Benuzzi who was an Italian POW and was held at Camp 345 in Nanyuki, Kenya. Felice with two other POW's escaped the camp and eventually climbed the lower summit of Mount Kenya, Point Lenana having tried and failed to reach the summit. Benuzzi's book is very unique in the realm of POW literature in that rather then escaping to rejoin the armed forces of ones of country he escaped and the two who went with him to get away from the mind numbing existence that only can exist in a prisoner of war camp.

[Eichhörnchen]

I never came across this movie until it was on TV last week. I didn't get to watch it so I'm now looking for it on DVD - but it looks like it's going to be next to impossible to find on Region 2 at an affordable price

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be3Le-Q2eRg