Julian Assange leaving? [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

Dread Knot

08-18-14, 10:23 AM

WikiLeaks spokesperson has told the media:

""What Julian meant is that his plan is to leave as soon as the British government honours its commitment,"

Does anyone know what commitment by the British government he is referring to? I do not recall the government ever making a deal with this low-life.

As it is it has cost the British tax payer over 6 million pounds to make sure he does not slip out the back door.

There do seem to be a lot of mixed signals in that press conference. So his leaving relies on the Police letting him go?

The statement says

Quote:
"The plan is for him to leave as soon as the UK government decides to honour its obligations in relation to international agreements and calls off the siege outside - it's as simple as that." He claims that he'll leave the embassy when the UK police just let him go - but that isn't gong to happen any time soon.

The Ecuadorian Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino on the other hand seems to feel Mr. Assange will be remaining in the embassy for a long time to come.

Cry for attention perhaps?

Oberon

08-18-14, 12:05 PM

@Oberon: So are we that far, yet ?
Police state, surveillance, threatening people speaking their minds ..
Where is your so-called freedom gone ? :hmmm:

You know i'm really interested:
Clandestine organisations, killing, abducting, torturing, eavesdropping, breaking the law of their own government.
Someone finds that out, and the people want HIM killed ? Interesting behaviour, and perception. :yep:

Freedom has always been a matter of perception. Absolute freedom has not existed since mankind first created a code of laws.

Catfish

08-18-14, 12:37 PM

Freedom has always been a matter of perception. Absolute freedom has not existed since mankind first created a code of laws.

I am not talking about an abstract 'freedom'.
I am talking about common laws that have been created for all, which are disregarded by organisations which claim to support a state that has issued those very laws.
And the laws are being broken by everyone's judgment and perception openly, publicly.

So nothing to see here, move on eh? :03:

STEED

08-18-14, 12:47 PM

Make sure he pays the police bill.

Von Tonner

08-18-14, 12:55 PM

Snowden.

There is. Trouble is, the sheep are the majority.
And corruption runs deep. Very deep.

Transparency.

The sheep just mill around waiting to feed on the crap the governments of this world dish out.

We need more who blow whistles.

Expose expose expose.

Feuer Frei I could not agree with you anymore than I do. Elected governments MUST be held accountable.... my only criteria is ... do NOT hold them to account by exposing men and women in serving that government and country (who may not even support the government you wish to bring account) harm.

In my books...you would be put up against a wall and shot. In a democracy there are a number of channels of dissent available to you. Your dissent should and must not put other peoples lives at risk...particularly when those lives are securing your liberty.

vanjast

08-18-14, 02:02 PM

Why is it that all the leaks are about the USA (Assange, Snowden), why not other countries. The US 'security' establishment must be doing something wrong, or overstepping the mark.

We're talking about the 'west' only here, where we're supposed to be 'free'.

We all know how patriotism, propaganda can be twisted by the 'shepherds'.
Step back and think a bit why this has happened.

:03:

Tribesman

08-18-14, 03:40 PM

Feuer Frei I could not agree with you anymore than I do. Elected governments MUST be held accountable.... my only criteria is ... do NOT hold them to account by exposing men and women in serving that government and country (who may not even support the government you wish to bring account) harm.

In my books...you would be put up against a wall and shot. In a democracy there are a number of channels of dissent available to you. Your dissent should and must not put other peoples lives at risk...particularly when those lives are securing your liberty.
That is interesting.
I thought people had dropped that particular line of arguement when the governments abandoned it as being obviously rubbish.
It is nice to see some people still hold to it.:yeah:

TarJak

08-18-14, 04:08 PM

Why am I not surprised that no-one has mentioned the real reason Assange wants to avoid going to Sweden. And its nothing to do with being extradited to the US.

If the US wanted him that bad they could just as easily get him extradited from the UK.

He simply didn't want to face a rape charge in Sweden where the rape laws are hard for him to escape at least some embarrassment if not jail time. Nothing more. All the other hubris is simply hot air.

Oberon

08-18-14, 04:13 PM

I am not talking about an abstract 'freedom'.
I am talking about common laws that have been created for all, which are disregarded by organisations which claim to support a state that has issued those very laws.
And the laws are being broken by everyone's judgment and perception openly, publicly.

So nothing to see here, move on eh? :03:

I guess it all depends on how much money you have.

That is interesting.
I thought people had dropped that particular line of arguement when the governments abandoned it as being obviously rubbish.
It is nice to see some people still hold to it.:yeah:

Old habits die hard, meneer.

Cybermat47

08-18-14, 04:22 PM

Your dissent should and must not put other peoples lives at risk...particularly when those lives are securing your liberty.

Yes, because the real problem here is that he's leaking information that people deserve to know, not the rape charges :doh:

And how are we supposed to know that those people are securing our liberty when governments keep so much from us?

And I think the Americans and French might disagree with you. Their nations are only what they are today because their dissent cost a lot of lives.

vanjast

08-18-14, 04:55 PM

He simply didn't want to face a rape charge in Sweden where the tape laws are hard for him to escape at least some embarrassment if not jail time

That's where Sweden's sex laws are all 'up the pole'... it takes two to tango, She wasn't wearing a condom was she ??.

Taking it from that angle, Swedens sex laws are sexist to the extreme, and soon Sweden will be really gay :har:

TarJak

08-18-14, 05:58 PM

Regardless of the stupidity or otherwise of the laws, they remain the laws in that country. Britain has already agreed to his extradition to Sweden for questioning but strangely he's not very keen on going.

Non of the leaks rubbish really has anything to do with him hiding in the embassy for two years.

Skybird

08-18-14, 07:09 PM

The very strong indices that the Swedish case is a constructed plot has been repeatedly explained two years ago. And I did that back then, too.

That all that soo fast and so comfortably has been forgotten - or better: gets intentionally ignored again - just illustrates how deep the desire for simple revenge is in many people.

On the Swedish women, their dubious, highly suspicious background also has been pointed out.

Sexual accusations are a formidable tool of diffaming. Support of the crowds is certain - their slobbering mouths as well.

The American operation to minimise any future impacts by Assange by discrediting him and keeping him running, already has achieved its main goal, however: Assange has been seriously isolated from his former support basis, and his resources have been seriously drained, with the man also having personally lost stamina.

I never understood this blind loyalty many people have for their nations, even if it plays foul. To me it is the servility of dogs that do not like to be stripped of their illusions how good and shiny their master is. I do not respoect it one bit. A foul is a foul, even when own team commits it. Assange was the first bringing to the awareness of a very huge crowd the level to which the powers believed to be "good" are playing foul even against their own people. Snowden continued there. Are they heroes? No, and what drives Assange I do not know, I do not like him and somethign about him keeps me alarmed, but I judge his case on the probability of scneairos for the Swedish claims and the importance of what he has achieved with wikileaks. Snowden is different, seems to be a man who maybe was a bit naive, maybe not, but who in the end followed a strong call by his conscience - might it be idealistic or not. Criminals ore "traitors" none of the two are, imo. Just two detemrined people who dared to break a taboo and reveal the dirt under own government's carpets. And the sight of how dirty it is there, indeed is frightening.

ikalugin

08-19-14, 05:51 AM

I (and this is my personal humble opinion) think that the issue here is that while some countries that infringe on personal freedoms do not really deny it (ie it is accepted as normal within that society), USA (and West in general) appears to follow the ideology that forbids such actions.

And hence there is a conflict between the actions of the security services (however justified by valid and present threats they are) and the ideology held by the state (ie where personal freedoms are quaranteed).

That is how it looks like from where I am in any case.

TarJak

08-19-14, 08:40 AM

vanjast

08-19-14, 10:04 AM

Von Tonner

08-19-14, 10:14 AM

Interesting radio interview with one of Assange's Australia legal team: http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/triplej/hack/daily/hack_tues_2014_8_19.mp3

Ignore the bit about Team Australia. It's simple an embarrassment.:oops:

Listened to that and found it very interesting. All of it. Firstly it would appear that the charges from Sweden against Julian will be needed to be addressed first and then later the USA gets the bite.

But what really interested me was Abbot's take on "Australia First" with regards to immigrants. To quote him: "You don't migrate to our country unless you want to join our team"

Two questions here:

Is he correct in his statement?

And the second one is:

What is meant by "our team".

Both of Abbot's statements are those that are been questioned by political scientists.

What is the Nation State? Are we today, moving away from cultural, linguistic, ethnic foundations that gave rise to nation states?

In my country our national flag has changed, street names have been changed, cities too, anthem, icons on currency etc, etc. Yes, this has all been brought about by a majority now able to rule itself which no one can challenge - but coming back to Abbot's sentiments this is not about an indigenous populace wronged. This about people WANTING to move to another country and WANTING to change its character.

I hope Harold Wilson wherever he may be is turning in his grave.

Oberon

08-19-14, 10:39 AM

STEED

08-19-14, 11:04 AM

Take the sod out with a missile and blame it on the French. After all they are a shifty nation. :shifty:

Von Tonner

08-19-14, 11:37 AM

I hope the nation state does become a thing of the past in a world where communication is not halted by borders, however I'm a realist so I don't expect that to happen anytime in the next century.
The ideology of nationalism and nation states, jingo and patriotism has not done great things for the history of mankind. :hmmm:

Oberon what other world order do you propose?

And I ask this question on the basis that any individual ... needs security, be it home, family, culture, language ect.?

Surely you cannot or believe in a world order where any of these concepts play no role.

We are what we are.

Oberon

08-19-14, 11:44 AM

Oberon what other world order do you propose?

And I ask this question on the basis that any individual ... needs security, be it home, family, culture, language ect.?

Surely you cannot or believe in a world order where any of these concepts play no role.

We are what we are.

One individual only needs security because of his or hers mistrust of another. If we must create an identity for ourselves, at least for now, then let it be of one planet, the universe is so huge and dangerous, and our presence on this ball of dirt so fleeting that unless we take some steps to protect ourselves from the hazards of the universe then we will not make it off this planet, and our future is not here, it's out there.
Fantastical, I know, like I said I don't expect anything like this to happen in my lifetime, or that of any children or grandchildren of my generation.
Now, if we realise that our differences should make us unite in sharing the one thing we share in common, living on this planet, then it would be a nice thing. After all, as Sagan put it:

http://ep.yimg.com/ty/cdn/skyimage/pbdwords.jpg

TarJak

08-19-14, 05:05 PM

Unfortunately Jamie, getting a bunch of monkeys to agree on anything is a very unlikely outcome.

Oberon

08-19-14, 05:50 PM

Unfortunately Jamie, getting a bunch of monkeys to agree on anything is a very unlikely outcome.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-x64MA34_Ig4/UGl3Lkigp2I/AAAAAAAAD5s/mvmwc0-bm2M/s400/vlcsnap-2012-10-01-14h59m51s165.png

True that.

Skybird

08-19-14, 06:02 PM

^... except when it comes to building spaceships.

:smug:

Catfish

08-20-14, 04:04 AM

True that ..

However, there are some intelligent people on earth, and there are some who still behave (and have the IQ of) monkeys.
(Sorry monkeys, some of our military leaders, secret service officers or politicians are way below you, by any measure)

So the question is why are those sub-monkeys execptionally often to be met in Secret services, ISIS leaders, politically rightwings and generally in leading positions ?

Why is the rest of mankind, despite their so-called "intelligence", so dumb as to let them do what they want, let them get in those positions and then let them stay there ? :hmm2:

Jimbuna

08-20-14, 05:21 AM

Back OT....I see the figure for this fiasco now reaches £7 million...

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/julian-assange-to-leave-the-ecuadorian-embassy-and-hand-himself-into-police-9675157.html

Catfish

08-20-14, 07:15 AM

Back OT....I see the figure for this fiasco now reaches £7 million...

:rotfl2:

Two years, 3 policemen every day – one can wonder why this was necessary or not – but let's take the (far-fetched!) assumption it was.

Can someone please tell me why this "observation" has costed 7 million pounds ?
The british police seems to be a bit overpaid :hmmm:

Jimbuna

08-20-14, 07:29 AM

Could be the cost of the SAS snipers on the rooftops (one at the front and one at the rear) waiting of him setting foot on the pavement :)

Catfish

08-20-14, 08:00 AM

Could be the cost of the SAS snipers on the rooftops (one at the front and one at the rear) waiting of him setting foot on the pavement :)

How very funny.
But then i guess it is in the best free, law-abiding and democratic tradition, of the British Empire :O:

Nah, it is only to add pressure on Assange, but (i hope) the rest of the world clearly sees what is done there.

Skybird

08-20-14, 08:23 AM

New legislations have been released as a consequence of the Assange mess, making it more difficult to extradite somebody to another nation as long as he is only wanted for questioning, but charges or warrants not being raised. This could be what he is referring to when hinting at a possible deal in the works. I do not think currently that he just steps out, goes to Sweden and accepts the risk of being handed over to the US.

That such new legislation was introduced shows that even the officials have realised that there is something smelly in the situation as it was allowed to become reality two years ago.

It reminds of the way they took out Strauss-Kahn to prevent him voting on an important vote over some Euro policies back then, he was alleged to have forced a servant girl for oral sex while he already was leaving. As the just deceased Peter Scholl-Latour commented on the abstruseness of the whole plot: "She rather could have just bitten into it - then the whole story would have been over immediately." :haha:

Sex not only sells, it also defames better than anything else. New relevations by a post-Snowden source claim that the NSA is systetmiacally tracking the itnernet behavior and porn consummation of opposing politicians in and outside the US, to collect material by which they could be blackmailed if the "need" arises.

Oberon

08-20-14, 08:51 AM

How very funny.
But then i guess it is in the best free, law-abiding and democratic tradition, of the British Empire :O:

Hey, we respected Belgiums neutrality, did you? :O::O::O: :03: :haha:

Catfish

08-20-14, 10:36 AM

^ Hey we wanted, but they did not let us
go through :hmph:

Anyway after reading a lot of history stuff i do not believe in a german exclusive responsibility any more.

When this german minister asked his french colleague after the end of WW1, what the world would say about this war a hundred years in the future, the answer was "They will never say that France invaded Belgium".
What a clever man, he knew exactly what the propaganda had been about :up:

While of course the german minister meant Italy, and the British Empire :03:

Skybird

11-16-18, 05:40 AM

It gets reported currently, with referring to an article in the WP and Wikileaks as main source, that the US have secretly sued Assange and tried to hide it in a bid to arrest him or letting him getting arrested and then handed over, if he leaves the embassay in London.

It seems his "paranoia" is fully justified from all beginning on.

The weaseling in America now, trying to explain this as a warrant that "by accident" :haha: has a wrong name (Assange's name) on it, is an exercise in self-ridiculing.

Skybird

11-16-18, 07:24 AM

Finally a link without subscription needed. The BBC picks it up:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46232609

Catfish

11-16-18, 08:02 AM

What is he accused of?
We know how good friend Saudi-Arabia handles this, or Turkey. So the West is no better.

Sure, after Trump and his fake media there is a lot that has changed in tone, action and respecting international law. And mankind will probably never go back again, after this new low.
So could it be there are indeed some values left in the EU, at least in comparison.

Skybird

11-16-18, 08:50 AM

The Swedes, in a changed way, still want get hands on him. The British said they will arrest him if he leaves the embassy, formally accusing him of having violated conditions of probation in 2010. Both reasons of theirs are all too obvious strawman claims. In any case, no matter promises and claims, will result in him ending up in US custody. They would even arrest him and hand him to the Americans if he would have parked his car in a forbidden place.

The whole plot about rape and abuse in sweden was a staged one, with dubious witnesses and and most suspect circumstances, and that tells probably all the important point there is to know about all this. We discussed this and I made my arguments back then, and I have never had any reason in those years to change and "correct" my original views of all this.

u crank

11-16-18, 10:03 AM

Oh oh. This could present a real dilemma for the left wing media who cheer on Robert Mueller's Russian collusion investigation and demand that he be protected.

Mueller could end up being both the good guy and the bad guy. Can't wait to see how that is spun.

WikiLeaks and Assange loom large in the investigation of Russian influence on the election.

The website released unflattering Hillary Clinton campaign emails beginning Oct. 7, 2016, just weeks before the presidential election.

Mueller, who's directing a federal inquiry into election meddling, in July charged 12 Russian intelligence officers with conspiring to hack Democratic National Committee computers in an effort to disrupt the 2016 election. The indictment referred to WikiLeaks as “Organization 1,” and described its role in receiving and disseminating the emails, without addressing whether Assange knew the material came from the Russians.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/accidental-filing-indicates-indictment-prepared-julian-assange-n937036

Catfish

11-16-18, 01:41 PM

What is Assange accused of?

Barry Pollack, U.S. lawyer representing Assange:
“The news that criminal charges have apparently been filed against Mr. Assange is even more troubling than the haphazard manner in which that information has been revealed,” Pollack said in a statement. “The government bringing criminal charges against someone for publishing truthful information is a dangerous path for a democracy to take.”

There is apparently nothing else against Assange than the elected trusted government being peed off by someone publishing their undemocratic criminal activities, that may reveal even the meddling of a foreign and hostile state.

u crank

11-16-18, 01:51 PM

What is Assange accused of?

3rd paragraph of NBC article. :03:

The prosecutor wrote that the charges and arrest warrant “would need to remain sealed until Assange is arrested in connection with the charges in the criminal complaint and can therefore no longer evade or avoid arrest and extradition in this matter.”

I guess we don't know that. But I'll venture a guess. It concerns the Clinton and Podesta emails.

Catfish

11-16-18, 01:55 PM

u crank

11-16-18, 02:12 PM

This third paragraph sounds like a catch 22 to me :03:
"We have no legal accusation, but come out so we can invent something."
I hope Assange will not move to a Saudi-Arabian embassy, our good friends and guards of human rights and free speech.

:har:

So Assange is accused of helping the Russians against Hillary Clinton, so that Trump won the election. Lmao.

Indeed. You couldn't make up this kinda stuff. The Trump–Russia dossier alleges that among other things that Russia was responsible for the DNC email hacks and their appearance on WikiLeaks. It also claims the operation had been conducted with the full knowledge and support of Trump and senior members of his campaign team etc. That brings you to Mr. Robert Mueller. And it is no secret that the Clinton campaign blames Assange for her 2016 election loss. They hate the guy. You know your in trouble when everybody is out to get you.

They have really tricked Assange into doing this, and now... remove the evidence.

It's like a movie. Politics is a dirty business.

Bleiente

11-16-18, 02:30 PM

Politics is a dirty business.
And for those who try to tell the truth then they are deadly.

Good night to all of us...

u crank

11-16-18, 03:17 PM

And for those who try to tell the truth then they are deadly.

Good night to all of us...

And if you think that authoritarian bent is only on one side of the political divide think again.

Excellent article here by Glenn Greenwald that looks at Julian Assange's case.

Neither the most authoritarian factions of the Trump administration behind this prosecution, nor their bizarre and equally tyrannical allies in the Democratic Party, care the slightest about press freedoms. They only care about one thing: putting Julian Assange behind bars, because (in the case of Trump officials) he revealed U.S. war crimes and because (in the case of Democrats) he revealed corruption at the highest levels of the DNC that forced the resignation of the top 5 officials of the Democratic Party and harmed the Democrats’ political reputation.

They’re willing to create a precedent that will criminalize the core function of investigative journalism because – even as they spent two years shrilly denouncing that most trivial “attacks on press freedom” – they don’t actually care about that value at all. They want to protect only the journalism that advances their political interests, while putting people behind bars who publish information that undermines their political interests. It is this authoritarian, noxious mentality that has united the worst elements of the Trump administration and the Democratic Party that pretends to find tyrannical actions objectionable but is often the leaders in defending them.

https://theintercept.com/2018/11/16/as-the-obama-doj-concluded-prosecution-of-julian-assange-for-publishing-documents-poses-grave-threats-to-press-freedom/

Bleiente

11-16-18, 03:33 PM

And if you think that authoritarian bent is only on one side of the political divide think again.
I totally agree with you.

At the moment you can only work out damage limitation.
It usually gets worse before it gets good... :hmmm:

Mr Quatro

11-16-18, 04:06 PM

I think Ecuador is in on it :yep:

Someone is pressuring Ecuador and you can freely guess it's not the UK.

https://newsok.com/article/feed/7225422/court-filing-hints-at-possible-charges-for-wikileaks-founder

Assange, 47, has resided in the Ecuadorian Embassy for more than six years in a bid to avoid being extradited to Sweden, where he was wanted to sex crimes, or to the United States, whose government he has repeatedly humbled with mass disclosures of classified information.

Ecuadorian officials say they have cut off the WikiLeaks founder's high-speed internet access and will restore it only if he agrees to stop interfering in the affairs of Ecuador's partners — such as the United States and Spain. He is allowed to use the embassy's WiFi, though it is unclear if he doing so. Officials have also imposed a series of other restrictions on Assange's activities and visitors — and ordered him to clean after his cat.

Jimbuna

04-11-19, 06:02 AM

GOTCHA!!

Wikileaks co-founder Julian Assange has been arrested at the Ecuadorian embassy in London.

Mr Assange took refuge in the embassy seven years ago to avoid extradition to Sweden over a sexual assault case that has since been dropped.

The Met Police said he was arrested for failing to surrender to the court.

Ecuador's president Lenin Moreno said it withdrew Mr Assange's asylum after his repeated violations of international conventions.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47891737

https://i.imgur.com/ttxQKr6.gif

Skybird

04-11-19, 08:38 AM

And all of a sudden a request for extradition from the US pops up that was revealed my mistake already last Novembre, I think. What a surprise.

The whole thing still smells as rotten as it already did 7 years ago, and did the Swedish allegations smell.

Those criminals whose crimes he revealed and against which his own - argued over - misconduct pales, will have their revenge and retaliation, no doubt. Its not about justice and legal procedures, that are strawman claims only that only opportunists believe, these strawmen claims are a figleaf. It is and always was about about retaliation and revenge. The whole Swedish and from beginning on extremely dubious, suspicous plot was.

August

04-11-19, 02:53 PM

Apparently the Feds want him for conspiracy (with Bradley "Chelsea" Manning) to break into government computer networks. Nothing (yet) to do with the Podesta emails (the ones that proved that the Dems fixed their primary to give Clinton the nomination).

Platapus

04-11-19, 03:05 PM

It will be interesting to see the actual charges, if any, that will be given to him.

STEED

04-11-19, 03:07 PM

Get that sod out the UK now.

Skybird

04-11-19, 06:31 PM

Journalism needs sources, else its gagged to detah and cannot serve its purpose as the third pillar in a democracy. One must not like Assange in order to fear for free press if he is turned further into an exemplary, deterring case to intimidate others. If it is not already the case: the man lives since 7 years in a self-imposed prison. This all is additionally to the gagging policies of the WH (but other states as well) that are designed to silence unwanted, too critical journalists - not just under Trump, but already under Obama, and before: Bush jr.

It certainly was no brilliant idea that after the change of the leadership in Ecuador Assange's Wikileaks seriously pissed the new strong man in Ecuador by publishing compromising videos, photos and documents showing the man'S brother being engaged in fraud and/or corruption. You do not bite the hand that guards you from your worst enemy. Not his brightest idea. His behaviour inside the embassy gets reported too contradictingly as if I would comment on that: some write he took up to a third of the building, others write he just lived in one small room.

The British charges, are raised over a formality only. The Swedish case however smells rotten from A to Z, I thought back then and still do so that it was a staged scenario, a trap, the women involved appeared to be too dubious as if it could have been like the charges described. According to Swedish law, "closed" cases like this can be re-opened again under circumstances that in almost all other Western countries would prevent this, they explained over here today that it were kind of a "speciality" of Swedish law. It was reported that the Swedes alreayd try to do right that. I predict that if Britain does not extradict Assange to the US, then at the latest the Swedes will go after extradition.

Why must he be such an antipathic guy by behaviour and personality. It sucks to defend somebody like him. But I am about what he did, not about his character. And different to most people here I see the necessity that crimes and lies and foul plays of our own governments get documented even if that means to foul our own nest. The degree of criminal behaviour of those that Wikileaks exposed, outclasses the possible criminal energy you could accuse Assange for - if it was any criminal at all.

em2nought

04-11-19, 07:35 PM

If the US DOJ gets him he'll be in solitary unless he'll provide false testimony against Donald Trump, if he does it will be a dying decree. :up:

Buddahaid

04-11-19, 07:40 PM

If the US DOJ gets him he'll be in solitary unless he'll provide false testimony against Donald Trump, if he does it will be a dying decree. :up:

Seems you have your mind already made up. Try cracking it open to see if anything can pry loose for objective evaluation. :arrgh!:

vienna

04-11-19, 08:34 PM

Trump's already obviously worried about Assange being out in the wild. Trump's already resorting to his usual ploy of denying any knowledge of WikiLeaks in spite of the fact there are slews of recorded material showing him expressing his love for WikiLeks ans encouraging their leaks during his 2016 campaign. It's Trump's "go to" behavior; he'll express great support for someone or something at first, then, when it becomes obvious whoever/whatever he has supported is gonna come back and bite him, he suddenly (and laughably) denies any knowledge of whoever/whatever or their actions and any possible connections they may have to him and his dwindling "empire". Trump's big problem with Assange is complicated by the fact WikiLeaks quite possibly (and probably) has a goodly amount of dirt on Trump and his cronies, just as he had on Hillary. Now Truump faces tha fact if Assange wants to sink him, Assange just might have the torpedoes to do the job. I really doubt the DOJ will try to isolate Assange to try to protect Trump (such a move would be way too obvious to the press and the public) and, likewise, the scenario of Assange having a "bad accident" while in custody (besides being a suicidal move by Trump's minions) would without a doubt make whatever scrutiny Trump has undergone thus far look like a series of very polite questions...

Also to be considered is this: Assange is a very smart con artist and a bit of a blackmailer, and most likely has a backup strategy where, if any thing bad happens to him, one or some of his many, many followers would quite likely release whatever damning material WikiLeaks holds against those who harm him; it may just bode better for Trump and his minions to just let Assange slide...

<O>

vienna

04-11-19, 08:36 PM

Seems you have your mind already made up. Try cracking it open to see if anything can pry loose for objective evaluation. :arrgh!:

I don't think there's a strong enough crowbar made that could do that for him... :D

<O>

em2nought

04-12-19, 02:00 AM

I don't think there's a strong enough crowbar made that could do that for him... :D
<O>

So you're saying I've a mind like a steel trap. :up:

Deepseadiver

04-12-19, 04:13 AM

Skybird

04-12-19, 05:09 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-47902968/what-trump-has-said-about-wikileaks

STEED

04-12-19, 05:09 AM

Julian Assange should not be extradited to US - Jeremy Corbyn

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47904837

Well that was no surprise coming from him. I hear that ding dong of a women has had her say. Ask jim for details he knows. :03:

Skybird

04-12-19, 05:23 AM

One thing is for sure: if you believe that Great Britain has spent seven years at such a tremendous cost and effort to enforce formal arrest warrant for violating probation rules from 2012, it is hard to beat this naivety. If that were so, there would be an eclameric disproportion between utility and cost, a blatant disproportion of means. Real serious criminals have been allowed to slip away due to much lower state expenditures and their weighing against the crime.

Journalism that take sitsel serious and is seen as a controlling pillar od a free society, must have sources. To criminalize the sources or the journalists, are strong indications for dictatorship and supression of free speech and free opinion. Such "journalism" cannot do its job and cannot serve its role for soceity anymore. Instead, it turns into state-selected propaganda.

Jimbuna

04-12-19, 05:38 AM

Whether you're right or wrong Sky, this is the official line from not only the UK but his own government as well.

The arrest was welcomed by the government on Thursday. Prime Minister Theresa May told the House of Commons: "This goes to show that in the UK, no-one is above the law."

Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt said the arrest was the result of "years of careful diplomacy" and that it was "not acceptable" for someone to "escape facing justice".

Meanwhile, Australia said it had received a request for consular assistance after Assange was taken from the embassy.

Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Assange will not get "special treatment" and will have to "make his way through whatever comes his way in terms of the justice system". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47904837

Skybird

04-12-19, 08:24 AM

I love it when gangsters and law-benders morally pose as defenders of justice. Assange most oliely was caught in a honey trap in Sweden. This conspiracy (this is what it mjost, most likely was) to take him out of the game by either getting hands on him or - unplanned - forcing him to take himself out of the game like in the past 7 years now beign claimed to be a legal justfication for persuading him, is rhich, no matter the government.

It was most liekly a staged event back in Ssweden, I remind fo the highly dubouzs circumstances and the shady background of at least on the women involved.

And if that is indeed the case, Jim, then your reasoning is completely invalid.

If he indeed would have committed rape or abuse, I am all for him facing the legalk punsihement for that. But this issue has been highly diozhbtful from all beginning on. And the inteest of players in the background has been all to evident from all beginning on as well.

That he did not put his fate trustfully into the official'S hands, is all too reaosnable and understandable. States are crimninals yndiactes themselves, and the interest to take him out is too much shared amongst British, swedish and American "allies". He had all reason to doubt the fairness of any legal exmaination, with all that political pressure on getting him into American custody.

In such politically uploaded cases, only fools trust the fairness of responsibility of "states".

Laws can be used to promote injustice and commit criminal acts. And it happens more often than we want to see. Law, and justice, are two totally different things. I know that difference very wel, my family lost a six-digit amount of money in a legal dispute that ran against justice but in conformity with some quite twisted written rules. I will never forget and never forgive that lesson in formalised crime committed in the name of "justice". Not even mentioning two far more hurting human losses we suffered that saw the offender both times being early released from his responsiblity - and repeating their offences both times.

Careful with thinking that a written law alone is the penultimate asuthority. The Nazi society in the third Reich based on laws as well. All the crimes committed by the regime, were formally "legal". Even the Mafia has given itself rules, laws.

u crank

04-12-19, 08:47 AM

Trump's already obviously worried about Assange being out in the wild.

That may be true though I doubt it. But if it is true then that of course opens up the possibility that he has more dirt on Hillary and the Obama administration...Clapper, Brennan etc. He may have entertained the possibility that Clinton would win and her administration would have most likely attempted to punish him. And he is certainly devious enough to prep for that possibility.

If you want I can lend you some tinfoil.:D

Skybird

04-12-19, 08:56 AM

Didn't I say they will.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47910820

Mr Quatro

04-12-19, 12:25 PM

He didn't take any thing with him on his forced removal from his self imposed retreat at the embassy, which means any proof of wrong doing by the Clintons or the Trump administration would have to already be in the hands of his trusted followers of which there are many and if he had anything in his apartment/office it is already in the hands of the investigators now.

Now CNN will have more click bait to tickle us with on what secrets Assange has without being able to prove it of course :yep:

em2nought

04-12-19, 01:12 PM

if he had anything in his apartment/office it is already in the hands of the investigators now.
:yep:
...or the more likely thing happening to it right now. :D

https://i.redd.it/dd31tiu7kijx.gif

Platapus

04-12-19, 04:30 PM

Trump's already obviously worried about Assange being out in the wild. Trump's already resorting to his usual ploy of denying any knowledge of WikiLeaks in spite of the fact there are slews of recorded material showing him expressing his love for WikiLeks ans encouraging their leaks during his 2016 campaign.

At this point, I think it is pretty clear that we should discount pretty much anything Trump says as either a lie or perhaps a form of cognitive disorder.

The sad point is that perhaps Trump is not lying, but truly does not remember what he says in the past. He tends to speak in an emotionally reactive manner, saying what ever comes to mind that fits the present situation with little thought about what may have already been said or the future ramifications. This may be why he flip flops so much.

He may be just as surprised as we are when his past recorded statements are brought back.

He was not always this way. I remember interviews years ago when he could form sets of coherent sentences and actually make sense. He was never a great speaker, but was one that was understandable. In the past few years, however, his ability to speak clearly has diminished.

Perhaps this is why he prefers to communicate more electronically.

Skybird

04-12-19, 04:37 PM

At this point, I think it is pretty clear that we should discount pretty much anything Trump says as either a lie or perhaps a form of cognitive disorder.

The sad point is that perhaps Trump is not lying, but truly does not remember what he says in the past. He tends to speak in an emotionally reactive manner, saying what ever comes to mind that fits the present situation with little thought about what may have already been said or the future ramifications. This may be why he flip flops so much.

He may be just as surprised as we are when his past recorded statements are brought back.

He was not always this way. I remember interviews years ago when he could form sets of coherent sentences and actually make sense. He was never a great speaker, but was one that was understandable. In the past few years, however, his ability to speak clearly has diminished.

Perhaps this is why he prefers to communicate more electronically.
Excellent observation, spoken like a true psychologist. Be sure there are quite some psycho and cognitive scientists who took note of these details, you are not alone.

Jimbuna

04-13-19, 07:18 AM

Looks like something has come up that takes the politicians minds off Brexit, even if just for a short time.

More than 70 MPs and peers have signed a letter urging the home secretary to ensure Julian Assange faces authorities in Sweden if they want his extradition.

The Wikileaks founder, who is now in UK custody, was arrested on Thursday after years in Ecuador's London embassy.

Sweden is considering whether to reopen an investigation into rape and sexual assault allegations against him.

And the US is seeking his extradition in relation to one of the largest ever leaks of government secrets, in 2010. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47917325

August

04-13-19, 09:02 AM

At this point, I think it is pretty clear that we should discount pretty much anything Trump says as either a lie or perhaps a form of cognitive disorder.

So in other words if I say I don't know anything about you or Vienna then that would mean that I am lying or crazy even though we have never met?

vienna

04-16-19, 07:29 PM

So you're saying I've a mind like a steel trap. :up:

Yep, rusted and nonfunctional... :03::D

That may be true though I doubt it. But if it is true then that of course opens up the possibility that he has more dirt on Hillary and the Obama administration...Clapper, Brennan etc. He may have entertained the possibility that Clinton would win and her administration would have most likely attempted to punish him. And he is certainly devious enough to prep for that possibility.

If you want I can lend you some tinfoil.:D

He didn't take any thing with him on his forced removal from his self imposed retreat at the embassy, which means any proof of wrong doing by the Clintons or the Trump administration would have to already be in the hands of his trusted followers of which there are many and if he had anything in his apartment/office it is already in the hands of the investigators now.

Now CNN will have more click bait to tickle us with on what secrets Assange has without being able to prove it of course :yep:

If Assange/WL have any more on Clinton, et al, that could serve as a potential 'bargaining chip' with the Trump DOJ, however that could be blunted by the fact such a 'collaboration (I'm avoiding the word 'collusion' :D) would also probably be a bit obvious and, once public, would put Chump in a bigger hole than the Mueller report could dig for him...

...and I don't need tinfoil, although, if you need some, u crank, I have a couple of rolls gathering dust in the cupboard I could send you... :03::D

At this point, I think it is pretty clear that we should discount pretty much anything Trump says as either a lie or perhaps a form of cognitive disorder.

The sad point is that perhaps Trump is not lying, but truly does not remember what he says in the past. He tends to speak in an emotionally reactive manner, saying what ever comes to mind that fits the present situation with little thought about what may have already been said or the future ramifications. This may be why he flip flops so much.

He may be just as surprised as we are when his past recorded statements are brought back.

He was not always this way. I remember interviews years ago when he could form sets of coherent sentences and actually make sense. He was never a great speaker, but was one that was understandable. In the past few years, however, his ability to speak clearly has diminished.

Perhaps this is why he prefers to communicate more electronically.

A nice bit of analysis if you're laying an insanity or diminished capacity defense and have a gullible jury, but past history shows that Trump is a longtime con man and 'convenient amnesia' is a tool of the trade for con artists; the mantra has always been, when caught, "Deny!, Deny!, Deny!". If caught and you can't deny, then either split or try to make a deal to get out of the situation; Trump has relied on this for decades and, in the private sector, where his dishonesty was little-noted and where he could throw around his putative wealth, position and the 'powers' therein 'entitled' to bully down his adversaries, he was, if not successful in actual endeavors, a 'success' in keeping up his appearances. But, now, his fallbacks are failing him and he is well out of his depth against the media and public attention. He is also finding his usual regimen of blustering, bullying, and demanding bending to his will won't work in the face of Federal law and governance. I do think Trump is mentally unstable; I just don't think his lying is an uncontrollable by-product of that instability...

As far as coherence goes, I also recall how, in the past, Trump would talk in circles when he was challenged on matter on which he expounded, particularly when he was defending his wealth; I sometimes wonder if that is why he has such a soft spot for Kellyanne Conway; they both talk the same babbling language. Part of Trump's current incoherence may be attributable to Trump, as he speaks, realizing he might be called out on what he has just said and wheeling around to cut off a possible challenge...

So in other words if I say I don't know anything about you or Vienna then that would mean that I am lying or crazy even though we have never met?

Depends on what you know about me. I'd wager you would be wrong on almost all counts since I really haven't given more than a superficial account of myself on these forums. Now, if you were to go around averring you had actual, verifiable knowledge of myself or my conditions without ever meeting me, then, yes, you would be lying...

...as far as you being crazy, well... :D

<O>

vienna

04-16-19, 07:39 PM

BTW, if anyone is interested, here is a link to the DOJ/Federal Grand Jury indictment against Assange:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1153486/download

<O>

u crank

04-16-19, 08:02 PM

If Assange/WL have any more on Clinton, et al, that could serve as a potential 'bargaining chip' with the Trump DOJ,....

I beleive that is what Robert Mueller would call 'cooperating' to avoid jail time.

vienna

04-16-19, 08:44 PM

I beleive that is what Robert Mueller would call 'cooperating' to avoid jail time.

Actually, those who cooperated with Mueller did. in fact, get jail time; I don't recall anyone actually avoiding jail time completely; the analogy doesn't fit...

<O>

u crank

04-17-19, 06:13 AM

Actually, those who cooperated with Mueller did. in fact, get jail time; I don't recall anyone actually avoiding jail time completely; the analogy doesn't fit...

Neither you nor I know what Mueller offered or what people asked for in regards to avoiding jail time. And we probably never will.

STEED

04-17-19, 06:42 AM

According to the embassy he hacked their computers and did a dirty protest.

Jimbuna

04-17-19, 07:33 AM

'Rude, ungrateful and meddling': why Ecuador turned on Assange.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/11/julian-assange-ecuador-president-lenin-moreno-evict-from-embassy

vienna

04-17-19, 01:13 PM

Neither you nor I know what Mueller offered or what people asked for in regards to avoiding jail time. And we probably never will.

You are right, we don't know; however, we do know anyone who was indicted in the Mueller probes did actually get at least some prison time, some thing to consider when "Individual One" has to answer for his part in the matters investigated...

...and, remember, once someone is convicted and sentenced in the Federal courts, they cannot 'bargain' for reduced prison time...

<O>

Torvald Von Mansee

04-19-19, 03:46 PM

Hmm...I don't think ADX Florence is full. Assange, Snowden, and Manning should all be in there forever.

Catfish

04-19-19, 03:48 PM

Hmm...I don't think ADX Florence is full. Assange, Snowden, and Manning should all be in there forever.

So you think it is alright what is done illegally?
They are called whistleblowers for a reason.

Torvald Von Mansee

04-19-19, 04:05 PM

So you think it is alright what is done illegally?
They are called whistleblowers for a reason.

I might be left of center, but I'm not a traitor.

Catfish

04-19-19, 04:41 PM

The man in the government that acts against its own laws and citizens is the traitor. Why not call him out and hang him.
This has nothing to do with left or right.

Rockstar

04-19-19, 07:35 PM

You are right, we don't know; however, we do know anyone who was indicted in the Mueller probes did actually get at least some prison time, some thing to consider when "Individual One" has to answer for his part in the matters investigated...

...and, remember, once someone is convicted and sentenced in the Federal courts, they cannot 'bargain' for reduced prison time...
.

<O>

everyone except those 13 Russians who hacked DNC emails

vienna

04-22-19, 03:11 PM

everyone except those 13 Russians who hacked DNC emails

I should have worded my post better: all those who have been indicted and gone to court, either to plead guilty or who have decided to contest the indictment, have been convicted; the only outstanding current court action is Stone, who is frantically flailing about for some loophole to prevent actually having to go to trial; as far as the Russians, well, the indictments were mainly to 'connect the dots' to those in the US who were indicted for similar offenses and, basically, to remove the 'you can't indict me if you didn't indict them' sort of defense the Trump minions probably would have tried to use to avoid trial...

...it is also the reason there is a mention of "Individual 1" in the Cohen indictment/plea deal: it formally connects "Individual 1" to the crimes for which Cohen plead guilty and was sentenced; "Ind. 1" hasn't yet been indicted, but his participation in the violation of Federal law is established; its akin to Nixon being noted as an "unindicted co-conspirator in the Watergate court filings...

<O>

Jimbuna

05-01-19, 06:39 AM

Wikileaks co-founder Julian Assange has been sentenced to 50 weeks in jail for breaching his bail conditions.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48118908

I wonder what will become of him after completion of his sentence :hmmm:

ikalugin

05-01-19, 06:50 AM

I bet this is just enough time for US to go through the right motions.

Jimbuna

05-01-19, 07:23 AM

You may well be correct :yep:

Skybird

05-13-19, 04:24 AM

Jimbuna

05-13-19, 11:50 AM

I should imagine that unless they have DNA samples the rape charge might be hard to prove after all this time.

Catfish

05-13-19, 01:37 PM

It would be much easier to denunciate someone who has already been accused or convicted of rape. I do not see any reason for the Glorious West (tm) which now and then deviates a bit from the right path with wars of aggression, torturing and illegal methods, to make up "evidence" DNA-wise in this case. Who should counter-prove it?
Assange is already unsympathetic enough of course, but not yet enough to kill him.

Skybird

05-13-19, 02:20 PM

Sweden is only a plan B, a fallback plan if plan A - USA -ö doe snot work. Anyhow, the idea is anyhow to keep pressure up on him and to have him taken out of aciton, if possible forever. He was locked away,m de facto i n the poast years alkready, and he will be locked away for much longer in the future. The revenge will be served cold and up to the last spoon of the dish, to execute a warning example to everybody what will happen if you blow the whistle.

The Swedish "rape" case is highly dubious, and was from beginning on. And sexual abuse works well to rally the crowd behind you and to kill somebody's reputation. Before you can mistreat him physically or lock him in forever, you must kill his reputation, if you want to get away with it.

If only he would not be so totally unsympathetic. It sucks to always defend a guy like this. I defend his case. But I cant stand the man.

Mr Quatro

05-13-19, 03:11 PM

I can't believe how patient everyone has been on this man and his wrong doings ... :o
there I go again judging, but good golly Miss Molly seven years is a long time :yep:

Catfish

05-13-19, 03:15 PM

^ What exactly ARE his wrongdoings?

Platapus

05-13-19, 03:15 PM

There was not much that could be done with him when he was granted sanctuary in the Ecuadorian Embassy.

It was a waiting game and the judiciary is really good at waiting.

Mr Quatro

05-13-19, 03:18 PM

^ What exactly ARE his wrongdoings?

Sharing classified material received from a US Army specialist, convicted of his crime and served his/her time, meant to do harm to the US intelligence agencies, which it did do. :yep:

Catfish

05-13-19, 03:24 PM

What about the US crimes he uncovered?
What about the US constitution and free speech?
Are crimes no crimes when the US comits them?

Platapus

05-13-19, 03:34 PM

The courts have been reluctant on prosecuting journalists (how ever that is defined these days) who simply receive classified information and publish it. The responsibility is with the person with the security clearance and NDA for the violations. While it would be nice if journalists did not further disseminate classified information, the courts tend not to prosecute.

However, and this is large however, if the journalist conspires with the leaker, that can open up the journalist for prosecution. Now the 64 dollar question is what is and ain't conspiring?

Conspiring can be as simple as asking for the person to violate their NDA
Payment after the breaking of the NDA may or may not be prosecuted under the conspiracy.

Providing the leaker with any assistance before the breaking of the NDA is a huge no-no. That's what they are considering for Assange.

Did he provide Manning with any assistance before Manning broke the NDA? Providing Manning with hacking software or even setting up a secure way for Manning to transmit the classified information would be enough.

Talking to Manning is a grey area.

Right know, I don't know if there is any evidence that Manning and Assange actually communicated directly with each other. That is probably in the Bag of Evidence we have.

Successful prosecution of Assenge is not a slam dunk, especially if he was smart and covered his tracks. But I am sure there is a lot of smart people going through all of Manning's computer files and such. They are pretty good at finding stuff.

It will be an interesting case to follow.

I am less concerned with the Assanges of the world and more concerned with the Mannings. The Mannings are the ones with the clearance and NDA and it is the Mannings who broke the law and their oath. Those are the people we need to focus on.

We don't make journalists swear loyalty.

Eliminate people like the Mannings/snowdons and the journalists can go about their business.

Skybird

05-13-19, 03:59 PM

Without sources, journalism becomes meaningless and can no longer serve as the claimed pillar of democracy it usually gets described as: overwatching the government. Journalism without sources and whistleblowers - is propaganda. Becasue it is the souces being in knowledge, not he journalists. Journalists just collect, add one and one together, and report it to the public. Without sources, neither journalists nor the poublic cpould know whatt hjeb government is really doing, and when it is doing wrong.

Thats why everywhere in the world govenrments crack down on journalism - and their sources. Villain regimes use brute force for this. Western states run more subtle, but not any less effective means. Career killing, social delegitimisation, character assassination, intimidation, legal threats, isolation, exemplary punishment of sources, personnel networking, smear campaigning, etc etc etc. There are even agencies and companies for this "business".

Solid journalism is a dying art. Its almost dead. What we have up the street and down the street and almost everywhere, is propagandists trying to please their masters for making their careers. As a result the present Western population is the best misinformed and manipulated public in history.

Zum Kotzen. Like in the GDR - but now everywhere.

Catfish

05-13-19, 04:03 PM

You can call Manning and Snowdon traitors alright if you want.
They swore an oath, and they broke it.

You could say the same about people breaking their oath to Hitler and being prosecuted by a justice system that was unjust and ethically wrong.They followed their conscience, and had to suffer the consequences. By allied propaganda they are heroes, today.

I am not sure about Manning, but Snowdon surely followed his conscience. And instead of even discussing what some did in the name of the US government, the herald of the wrongdoings is being prosecuted and convicted.

It is somehow strange to see what the US justice is trying to do with someone who discovered their wrongdoing, in a country that invented the international law and prosecution of wars of aggression in 1945.
I do not want to compare Hitler's 3rd Reich with the US but i wonder why the latter does not handle evident war crimes more openly. There are obviously some corpses in their cellar that they do not want to be found.
Killing the messenger under the worlds's eyes will not make the US believable or trustworthy.

By this law, the killing of german sailors by german officers at may 5th 1945 was alright since Hitler's laws still applied, even if they just wanted to get from Norway to Germany after a war obviously lost. Every one trying to do something against the government was a traitor and acted defeatistly (does this word even exist), but somehow this was seen different by those who fought the Axis.

Whatever, Assange did not swear an oath and he is not even a US citizen, so US law can not apply in his case. So they accuse a foreigner of hacking. Quite a difference to killing civilians in a an unjust war.

Skybird

05-13-19, 04:09 PM

acted defeatistly (does this word even exist)
It does, but its just "defeatist".

Platapus

05-14-19, 03:53 PM

Catfish,

Because there is a right way and a wrong way to bring suspected misconduct to the attention of the appropriate authorities.

In both the Manning and Snowdon cases, each had many separate approved venues in which they could have brought up their concerns without breaking any laws. They chose not to use them. Instead they went quickly to the illegal path where they could get the most fame.

There are multiple military channels and channels completely isolated from the military, There federal channels, congressional channels, judicial channels, even some state channels all of which are approved ways of reporting suspected misconduct. As a last resort, there are cleared foreign channels that can be used if the information is releasable.

One can adopt a emotional position where everyone is covering up everything. That may make people feel better cynically, but it does not reflect reality.

If you think that you are the only one who is right and everyone else is wrong, chances are you are mistaken.

This is why I have no sympathy for the Mannings and Snowdens. They had approved venues but chose not to use them. They were out for the fame and got infamy. They were going to show everyone that they were better then the rest of the people.

It was not whistle blowing, it was ego assuaging.

Skybird

05-14-19, 04:45 PM

Sorry but I just had to dry a tear or two. I find it so heartmoving and touching if somebody is so blindly trusting in the formal channels and political institutions. It warms the bottom of my soul.

At least Snowden not one moment gave me ever the impression of being an attention-craving wannabe-star. Quite the opposite. He knew the high price he would pay, and still he accepted it, in advance. Obviously he did not share your optimism, Platapus, that the official ways and channels would have helped in what he wanted to make known to the public. They help mainly in one thing: to hide the darker sides of governments, and to protect it from people's awareness.

And political control? We know parliamentary investigation committees in Germany as well, of course. They are battlegrounds for the parties to beat each other in rhetorics, run for years, cost a lot of money, cheer many political egos, and in the end bring only extremely rarely more than just endless tsunamis of bla and bla, and blablabla.

Governments, administrational infrastructure of states, should never be trusted. Especially not if you attack these very structures themselves. They have their own interests, already for the mere reasons of that they exist. Give them your evidence against the,m and they will make sure that it disappeares. And maybe yourself too.

Catfish

05-15-19, 02:45 AM

Thanks Platapus for taking the time to answer.

I would not go as far and being as radical as Skybird, but there are a lot of sekeletons in the closet the government does not want the american public and the world to see. When it comes to international crime (war crime in this case) and secret services are involved, the regular ways of complaints will isolate you at least, and more probably get you into real trouble including some "harsh treatment" to say at least.

When a president publicly announces without protest that he supports torture as long at is in the interest of America, and killing civilians is acceptable "collateral damage", you may question your belief in this system and have to decide for yourself. And face the consequences of your decision of course.
The US are not Nazi Germany, and the Mossad is not the Gestapo, but the means and methods to reach perceived righteous goals .. thinking of "The little drummer girl" here. Also those civilized nations have their cellars with the white tiles, chains and shackles.

When i think of the people's reactions and juridical repercussions regarding those .. elucidations one might think it probably was not worth it since the public seemed properly disinterested. Still it takes some guts and bravery to do this.
Compare torturers in Abu Ghraib or the helicopter crew playing god, to Snowdon.

Gerald

05-20-19, 09:22 AM

Swedish prosecutor requests Assange's detention over rape allegation.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-wikileaks-assange-sweden-detention/swedish-prosecutor-requests-assanges-detention-over-rape-allegation-idUSKCN1SQ0ID

Julian you are under the ice.

Skybird

05-23-19, 03:38 PM

As was to be expected: Sweden reopens the case.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48253343

I Assange ever ends up in the US, additional, much more severe charges than those now known all of a sudden will appear like magic firework.
Et voila, what did I point at: the magican pulls 17 new white rabbits out of his top hat.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48391266

What the Swedes do and the Ameicans do, imo borders if not oversteps the thin red line to simply arbitrary justice. I know, its all a coup, and in a coup you do foul stuff, but still... Law enforcement on, law enforcement off, law enforcement on, charges come, charges go, charges appear - just as it pleases you.

What we see is an exmaple getting executed to intimidate every source and journalist in the future. In principle its not different than what in regimes like Turkey or Iran is being done: crackinging down on the media and its aids and assistants.

Jimbuna

05-24-19, 05:46 AM

It would appear he is in deep doody now.

Catfish

05-24-19, 06:23 AM

It is perfectly clear what is happening.

He made governmental crimes public, and they can hardly accuse him of that. How embarrassing.

So they try to destroy him with mud of the lowest calibre, so that everyone will hopefully abandon him. It does not matter whether there is evidence, rumours are enough.

It is like the german exiles in Paris before WW2, calling out Nazi crimes in independent newspapers. They were first dealt with by rumours, and when people got bored they were secretly "removed".

And no one asks questions to the government, about war crime and international law. Where is the conviction of crimes in wars of aggression? What a great democracy we have today.

u crank

05-24-19, 08:18 AM

What we see is an exmaple getting executed to intimidate every source and journalist in the future. In principle its not different than what in regimes like Turkey or Iran is being done: crackinging down on the media and its aids and assistants.

It is perfectly clear what is happening.
He made governmental crimes public, and they can hardly accuse him of that. How embarrassing.

Problem is the waters are a little muddy here. Assange and supporters claim that he is a journalist and a whistle blower. Possible true but what he really is without doubt is a political activist. His goals go beyond just journalism and into the political realm. Journalists do not advance conspiracy theories they know are false. Assange did this in the Seth Rich case. It was done to shift blame from Assange to some one else. Robert Mueller's report proved it to be false and that Assange was lying. That is not the way 'journalists' behave.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/mueller-report-julian-assange-smeared-seth-rich-to-cover-for-russians

Bilge_Rat

05-25-19, 07:39 AM

I am no fan of Assange, but charging him with espionage is overreach. By the same token, you could also charge the Ny Times, the Guardian and Spiegel, all of which coordinated with Wikileaks and released the same info in 2010.

Prosecutors are trying to argue Assange is not a "real journalist", but to me it is a slippery slope if the Government gets to choose who are the "real journalists" worthy of protection and who are "political activists" who can be jailed.

How long before all journalists stop reporting the hard news because they are afraid of being prosecuted?

u crank

05-25-19, 09:35 AM

I am no fan of Assange, but charging him with espionage is overreach.

That is debatable. What Assange is accused of is helping a source, a discontented GI, Bradley Manning, to break a code to access government computers. Is that what real journalists do? If you were not a journalist and did that what would happen? Since that is against the law would that not get a real journalist fired. Coming into possesion of vast amounts of classified information and publishing many of them in a time of active combat is not something real journalists do all the time. It crosses a line that most real journalists would not and have not crossed. Being a journalist is not an excemption for illegal activity. Assange's greatest legacy may be the damage he has done to the very trade to which he claims to belong.

STEED

05-30-19, 07:35 AM

Julian Assange was too ill to appear at his court hearing in London on Thursday, his lawyer said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48459760

Sounds like Bull to me.

Jimbuna

05-30-19, 08:34 AM

"During the seven weeks in Belmarsh his health has continued to deteriorate and he has dramatically lost weight," the spokesman said.

I'm wondering what the symptoms are and if it is because of his own actions ie: not eating? :hmmm:

Catfish

05-30-19, 11:17 AM

Or he silently dies for no apparent reason.. there have been some ugly events with the british border police lately, plus US-american pressure :03:

Assange
"mother's plea to police, prison officers, court staff re my son Julian"

Hes been

*8 yrs detained
WITHOUT charge

*6yrs deprived fresh air, exercise,sun/VitD

*3 yrs sick/in pain denied proper medical/dental care

*1yr isolated/tortured

Please be patient, gentle & kind to him"

Oh be sure.. :hmmm:
Nah really, for what i heard he is either on a hunger strike, or getting crazy, or both..
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bild.de%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2F politik-ausland%2Fist-julian-assange-verrueckt-geworden-gesundheitszustand-nicht-gut-61205062.bild.html
(translation from the german "Bild", maybe worse than "The Sun" i'm not sure..

I trust them as much as i would trust "Fox News" or the "Express" :shucks:

Jimbuna

05-31-19, 07:36 AM

Whatever the circumstances are behind his health problems surely he brought them about as a direct result of his own actions.

He chose to do what he did and certainly wasn't forced but obviously there will be those who disagree.

STEED

05-31-19, 02:35 PM

I would buy him a big bag of chips if he clears off out of the UK. :03:

Catfish

05-31-19, 03:33 PM

I would buy him a big bag of chips if he clears off out of the UK. :03:
Why did you arrest him? You could send him to one of your penal colonies, like Australia. After all he was born there :hmmm:

Skybird

05-31-19, 04:26 PM

Jimbuna

06-03-19, 02:26 PM

A Swedish judge has rejected a request to detain Julian Assange in absentia, complicating hopes to extradite him from the UK.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48503730

Will this ruling benefit the US claim I wonder? :hmmm:

Catfish

06-03-19, 02:48 PM

I will never express sympathy for the White Rose resistance group again.
:03:
You do not really think that propaganda has changed much after WW2, especially when it comes to anglosaxon internals?

Mr Quatro

11-19-19, 12:13 PM

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange's rape investigation dropped by Sweden: 'Evidence has weakened'

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/11/19/julian-assange-wikileaks-founder-rape-investigation-dropped/4236803002/

STOCKHOLM – Sweden on Tuesday dropped its investigation into an alleged rape by WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, who is currently in prison in Britain.

Assange, who is battling extradition to the United States, which accuses him of publishing secret documents related to his WikiLeaks work, has been facing potential charges in Sweden since 2010. The 48-year-old has denied all allegations against him.

Prosecutor Eve-Marie Persson said the case was being dropped because "the evidence has weakened considerably due to the long period of time that has elapsed since the events in question."

Jimbuna

11-19-19, 12:59 PM

The 48-year-old Australian was evicted in April and sentenced to 50 weeks in jail for breaching his bail conditions.

He is currently being held at Belmarsh prison in London.

Assange was due to be released from HMP Belmarsh in September after serving the custody period of his jail term.

But a judge ruled that Assange should remain in jail until his extradition hearing because of his "history of absconding".

Last month, a judge rejected Assange's attempt to delay the full extradition hearing, which is scheduled to take place at Westminster Magistrate's Court in London in February.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50473792

Possible extradition to the US early next year then :hmmm:

Catfish

11-19-19, 01:04 PM

^ by which authority?

Jimbuna

11-19-19, 01:12 PM

The British judicial system I presume.

Catfish

11-19-19, 01:17 PM

This is why i ask, by which authority?
As far as i know Assange has done nothing that interferes with UK law. Let alone surrending a foreigner to anwhere else than his nation of birth.

I know it is too bad that the US has once more been caught red-handed, so does that mean that legal behaviour has to be abandoned entirely in your "west"?
Maybe they could surrender him to China, if the latter demanded it? "Take back control" eh?

I do see any legal behaviour and common sense serving the public go down the drain in the last ten years. It is not only the well-known authoritarian nations unfortunately.

Jimbuna

11-19-19, 02:53 PM

Everyone will have an opinion of their own but much of mine factors on the fact he broke his bail conditions at the beginning and is therefore subject to British law.

The fact the US has applied for extradition so the wheels of the judicial system must turn I suppose.

Catfish

11-19-19, 03:11 PM

Everyone has his opinion, and lately some certain "opinion" has obviously become "the law". In how far is the UK better than Russia now.
Lickspittles. Everyone knows exactly what is going on, and the wheels of the english judicial system are unfortunately turning wrong regarding international law. We do not need to discuss it further, Assange will be dead soon and the nationalists will celebrate.
England has come a long way. This article (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/19/extreme-surveillance-becomes-uk-law-with-barely-a-whimper) is three years old.

Skybird

11-19-19, 03:24 PM

The Swedes have served their purpüose and are no longer needed, so they leave the stage.

In the British decision making to follow now, Brexit and the UK being hopeful to get a good trade agreement with the US, will play a role. Trump would not be Trump if not drumming the drum with this stick. His behaviour in blackmailing the Ukraine speaks precedence.

It would serve the British reputation well, if giving Assange a formal sentence for bail violation, calculatung that with the isolation imprisonment Assange is in needlessly and the psychic consequences of that (many speak of de facto torture), and letting him go, ignoring the Donaldinarium across the pond. For the little boy in the WH, Assange is not about treaosn or not, secrecy or not, good or evil, right or wrong: for this big child the Assange case is just an opportunity to bribe miliutary servicemen with theatralic concenssions and buy the sympoathy, like he did with the pardoning of three US-sentenced war criminals short time ago.

And lets face it: no matter whether we like Assange as a person or not - we owe him, like we owe Snowden as well. Many of us still would live in blidnness over certain things that we should kinow our govenrtment and that big data and that intel servicesd are doing against our personal interests. From now , we do not have the excuse anymore that "we did not know". From now on, we must admit that where we continue to ignore unwanted truths - we live in blindness due to our own choice and decision. Before, our ignorrance was was lacking knowledge. Now, our ignorrance is is our choice.

I still cannto stand him as a person, but he has de facto lived in detention since a decade, without a court sentence, and due to the very well founded fear that a plot is staged against him to get the US service's hands on him. De facto he already has served a ten year spriuson sentence. And for what...? That relativizes any staged claim about bail violations. He had good and imo justified reason to violate his bail.

The UK should set him free and let him go immediately. This conspiracy has gone way too far and way too long already. I think he even should be given compensation.

Rockstar

11-19-19, 07:43 PM

Assange can rot. He is not a whistle blower, a whistle blower is an insider who has evidence of misconduct and exposes it. They do not conspire to hack into government computer systems to gather and expose current intelligence and methods. If he toed the line and faced the charges brought against him he most likely would be sent to jail. And I'd wager he would be treated better in a federal penitentiary than he is now.

Catfish

11-20-19, 03:19 AM

I give a rat's a$$ how or by whom this information was obtained.
It is about what has been brought to light.

"Whistleblowers" now do the job of policemen, they whistle to stop the thief. Something real policemen obviously gave up a long time ago when it comes to protect the constitution. Certain "patriots" obviously prefer to actively and willingly ignore crimes and law-breaking of their governments.

You have created the tools for repression, and now that even western psychopaths like Cummings or Trump begin to abuse them, you willingly shut your eyes?
Assange deserves the Nobel Prize, if just to p"§$% off those undertakers of freedom.

Rockstar

11-20-19, 10:30 AM

I dont see myself as a repressed person, I have a freedom protected by people who do what is probably a very dirty and dark but neccessary job. I for one appreciate those people. Assange on the otherhand is repressed because he is hiding from the law which he conspired with others to break under the guise of being a martyr, thats his choice not mine. He didnt do me any favors doing what he did. Time for him to face the music

Skybird

11-20-19, 10:41 AM

Assange spiled the illusion of many people that their governments are holy knights in shiny armor. But they are as dirty and spiled and corrupt as many other. The German word here would be "Nestbeschmutzer", for which i find no online translation, the closest would be "nest polluter", meaning somebody who spoils the illusion of one's own peer group being better than others or better than it claims. This killing of illusions is something many take queer.

Its also about revealing lying and criminal deeds of own govenrment against is own citizens: their rights, freedoms, liberties, value, ideals.

If its a government, never trust it not even a tiny bit. People in governments never were forced with loaded weapons to serve in that position, but always craved to get into the bosses' seats, and this is best evidence for that they are the wrong people in that office. I do not make a single exception for single govenrment in any Western country of the past 30 years. They all play(ed) foul, all of them.

Rockstar

11-20-19, 11:01 AM

Mr Quatro

11-20-19, 11:21 AM

What he exposed should not have surprised anyone. But most are too busy with facebook style drama to care anyway. They certainly are not knights in shiney armor. more like shadowy spooks doing what most dont have the stomach for to protect my country.

Don't be so naive to think that your government (pick any country) has stopped investigating it's people to it's fullest extent, in order to get around any new laws that were not in place, they use independent contractors that have no ties to the three letter agencies that live in little rooms that keep moving around to avoid detection. :yep:

Rockstar

11-20-19, 11:27 AM

naive? my government is investigating me? for what, what did i do wrong?

vienna

11-20-19, 11:59 AM

They'll let you know when they find out...

<O>

Skybird

11-20-19, 12:27 PM

for what, what did i do wrong?
You are either the basis for or a threat to their claim for power. Both lead mto the same consequence: wanting to control you. At best in ways you are not aware of, and let you believe that you form your decisions yourself, on the basis of "facts". If you think you come tio your opinions all by yourself and then comply with their views, then you will not resist to them or challenge them - thats what they want. That you do not resiost to them. That you play by their rules, fall into their schemes. Names come and go, the game beign played stays the same. Its not abotu the names. its about the game.

Under the surface, on the first hidden layer below, it is not about people obeying laws, but to make laws so that they cannot be lived by without either giving up your self-responsibility - or violating them. An independent or record-free citizen cannot be controlled and blackmailed, if need arises. He needs to have become an offender first, or needs to be a dependent. Than you are theirs.

At the next layer beneath this is social isolation by streamlining language and by that: streamlining thought. The censor gest moved from the outside into people's inside: their own heads. People censor their own thinking and opinion voicing, all by themselves they lean on what is politiclaly correct to think. Violators gets socially sanctionised: witchunting them,deminsiing themm delaring them mentally ill, radical, x-y-z-phobic, irrational. The subject looses social respectability, friends, colleagues, social reassurance, in the end job and career chances. Alexander de Toqueville already described this at his time, I repeatedly quote him on that.

Just under this layer, when all the earlier layers fail to acchieve state control, comes open brutality, police tyranny, torture, arbitrary justice, imprisonment: all the wet dreams of tyranism and dicatorship. Its only needed by dilletatees who cannot master contorl via the lyers above this one: if all other means fail, than it is about going back to brute foirce.

Skybird

11-20-19, 12:36 PM

What he exposed should not have surprised anyone. But most are too busy with facebook style drama to care anyway. They certainly are not knights in shiney armor. more like shadowy spooks doing what most dont have the stomach for to protect my country.
In a way I agree. What irks me is that so many peoiple want to live in illusions about what the basis of our dfeence against external threats is. We should be adult and honest enough to bear tzhe truth that for defending oruselves against the threats by external powers, we need to make our hands dirty, too.

We also must understand that our pltlical syste,ms are not the bastions of nobleness and grandeur they claim to be, but that they are corrupted from head to toe by selfishness, lobbyism and egoism. There is a treaosn why amongst top managers and politicians perosnality strictres thgat must be more or less described as anti-social and/or psychopathic, are found to be massively overrepresented. The government is not about protecting its people, but to keep them in a state of being submitted and passve and supportive to individual figure'S ideolgoicao,andd selfish demands. The way the system might have been meant by its origonal dersigners back in history, and the way these system present themselves today, are mightyears apart. I see no reason for dilaism and starry-eyed admiration there. The words on old scrolls and documents sound glorious and noble. Their meaningfulness today - that is an entirely different story.

mapuc

11-20-19, 12:37 PM

Skybird

11-20-19, 01:52 PM

- "I'm not a crook, so I don't mind the authorities spy on me"

So say a huge percentage or the citizens
Nevertheless it is an extremely dangerous attitude, which has enabled many dictatorships and tyrannies in nations unfolding because people refused to make a stand against their increasing claims for totalitarian powers and controls on the ground of just this assumption: I do nothing wrong, I obey their laws, and so I have nothing to fear.

The point is: laws can be changed. And they get changed according to the needs of those wanting to protect their power and agenda.

Pooiunt alos is: state terror doe sniot care for the quresiton of innoicence and guilt. It terrorises andiomoly chosen victims,. to intimadte them all. Stalin once said to his police leader: "we do not exceute enought people. Arrest more people and execute them." He understood the profound basis of state's power.

And in case somebody wonders: no, it is not nice at all, I fully agree. Power is power, and nothing else.

Rockstar

11-20-19, 03:18 PM

- "I'm not a crook, so I don't mind the authorities spy on me"

So say a huge percentage or the citizens

Good you are not a crook, then it's no need to have a camera up in a body parts where the lights don't shine or in other words.

No need to spy on everyone on a street just because 1-2 of them are criminal.

Markus

Im not gonna live in fear of technology. Its available and I think it ought to be purchased and used. The tech is much more reliable than eye witness accounts. Easier and faster than looking through photographs, line-ups and FD-258's.

IMO technology is not what keeps the herd at bay. In a so called free society I think its the divisive nature of politics, the citizens severe lack of knowledge in foreign and domestic affairs. People in power have nothing to fear from sheep.

Skybird

11-20-19, 03:44 PM

Its not the technology I am worried of, but its abuse by those in power that allows them to abuse it. Where it can be abused, it will be abused. That is the reason why I may argue on occasions that it would be better a certain technology would not be around. Nuclear bombs were uzsed on just one hisotric opporutnity, and then enver again. With modern computer power and its abuse, this cannot be said. The abuse is the rule.

Rockstar

11-20-19, 03:57 PM

well, when the abuse of power begins Im gonna hangout with vienna in his underground prepper bunker.

August

11-20-19, 04:02 PM

Skybird

11-20-19, 04:20 PM

well, when the abuse of power begins Im gonna hangout with vienna in his underground prepper bunker.
What do you mean with "when it begins"...? You are in the midst of it. Since long. We all are. Since long.

Our own fault.

Skybird

11-21-19, 06:07 PM

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/11/no_author/now-that-assange-is-safely-locked-up-sweden-drops-its-investigation/

Tchocky

11-24-19, 02:03 AM

If I am accused of sexual assault I don't get to hide in an embassy.

He chose to. That tells me a LOT.

Face your accuser and make your case.

Your job, your "journalism" doesn't matter.

Be the man you tell people you are, or run away.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

Skybird

11-24-19, 07:50 AM

It was a plot, staged to get hands on him. The question of guilt never played a role.

And you would have been naive enough to voluntarily step into that trap and trust in that the rigged game rules would give you a fair deal...?

Well, then you would have gotten what you asked for.

The way the American side has switche don and off and on accusaitons and pulled new ones out of the hat suddenly - THAT is what tellsa lot.

STEED

11-25-19, 07:26 AM

I hear from the news this rat needs to go to hospital or he will die in prison, bet some folk would like to put that to the test.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/julian-assange-could-die-in-prison-health-hospital-doctors-open-letter-uk-authorities-today-2019-11-25/#

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/index.html

Catfish

02-05-20, 04:40 PM

^ maybe you should change your mind.

Assange made it clear that countries are no longer interested today in legitimate confidentiality, but in the suppression of important information about corruption and crimes.

"A made-up rape allegation and fabricated evidence in Sweden, pressure from the UK not to drop the case, a biased judge, detention in a maximum security prison, psychological torture; and soon extradition to the U.S., where he could face up to 175 years in prison for exposing war crimes."

1. The Swedish Police constructed a story of rape

2. Assange contacts the Swedish judiciary several times to make a statement; but he is turned down

3. When the highest Swedish court finally forced public prosecutors in Stockholm to either file charges or suspend the case, the British authorities demanded: «Dont get cold feet!!»

4. In the UK, violations of bail conditions are generally only punished with monetary fines or, at most, a couple of days behind bars. But Assange was given 50 weeks in a maximum-security prison without the ability to prepare his own defense

5. A prison sentence of 175 years for investigative journalism: The precedent the USA vs. Julian Assange case could set

The states are the real traitors: «A murderous system is being created before our very eyes»
(https://www.republik.ch/2020/01/31/nils-melzer-about-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange)The 'Five eyes' are not the good guys here.

edit: Or anywhere else it seems. The english-speaking race-patriots club of looking down on others

https://www.lawfareblog.com/newly-disclosed-nsa-documents-shed-further-light-five-eyes-alliance

https://www.newcoldwar.org/consortium-news-strikes-back-londons-five-eyes-freelands-nazi-roots-stand-exposed-once-more/

Catfish

09-07-20, 08:09 AM

Assange's legal fight to avoid U.S. espionage trial resumes in London (Reuters)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-assange/assanges-legal-fight-to-avoid-u-s-espionage-trial-resumes-in-london-idUSKBN25X10D

Is Wikileaks legal? Obviously, yes. Interesting article:
https://political-economy.com/is-wikileaks-legal/

Skybird

09-07-20, 08:22 AM

Jimbuna

09-07-20, 08:32 AM

You just may well be right but 'so much for justice' if you are.

Catfish

09-07-20, 08:32 AM

I dont dare to imagine the political pressure the judge is under. Its cases like this that build reputations - or destroy them.

The public will never learn about it. But states have interests. And the brexited UK wants something from the US, while being in the much weaker position from start on.
All true. States have interests, and "truth is treason if you have an empire".
I do not like to defend Assange, but he is not a US subject, so he is not subject to US rule. Accusations to destroy his reputation to make the public shut up and trying to let him die should not be a common procedure here.

Gerald

09-07-20, 04:26 PM

The Assange case was handled incorrectly, especially from the Swedish side, and of course not unexpectedly by political pressure, there have been other people who have had the same flow of information as him and he became more of a coincidence a front figure in the context, however he has a responsibility for his actions. As I understand the situation, for several reasons he does not have much to bargain with, that time is over, and "in principle" he is the highest bidder for different states.

Bilge_Rat

09-08-20, 01:33 PM

"A made-up rape allegation and fabricated evidence in Sweden, pressure from the UK not to drop the case, a biased judge, detention in a maximum security prison, psychological torture; and soon extradition to the U.S., where he could face up to 175 years in prison for exposing war crimes."

1. The Swedish Police constructed a story of rape

Not sure what you are basing yourself on, but the story is well known and has been extensively reported on, such as here in your favorite publication:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden

The allegations centre on a 10-day period after Assange flew into Stockholm on Wednesday 11 August. One of the women, named in court as Miss A, told police that she had arranged Assange's trip to Sweden, and let him stay in her flat because she was due to be away. She returned early, on Friday 13 August, after which the pair went for a meal and then returned to her flat.

Her account to police, which Assange disputes, stated that he began stroking her leg as they drank tea, before he pulled off her clothes and snapped a necklace that she was wearing. According to her statement she "tried to put on some articles of clothing as it was going too quickly and uncomfortably but Assange ripped them off again". Miss A told police that she didn't want to go any further "but that it was too late to stop Assange as she had gone along with it so far", and so she allowed him to undress her.

According to the statement, Miss A then realised he was trying to have unprotected sex with her. She told police that she had tried a number of times to reach for a condom but Assange had stopped her by holding her arms and pinning her legs. The statement records Miss A describing how Assange then released her arms and agreed to use a condom, but she told the police that at some stage Assange had "done something" with the condom that resulted in it becoming ripped, and ejaculated without withdrawing.

When he was later interviewed by police in Stockholm, Assange agreed that he had had sex with Miss A but said he did not tear the condom, and that he was not aware that it had been torn. He told police that he had continued to sleep in Miss A's bed for the following week and she had never mentioned a torn condom.

On the following morning, Saturday 14 August, Assange spoke at a seminar organised by Miss A. A second woman, Miss W, had contacted Miss A to ask if she could attend. Both women joined Assange, the co-ordinator of the Swedish WikiLeaks group, whom we will call "Harold", and a few others for lunch.

Assange left the lunch with Miss W. She told the police she and Assange had visited the place where she worked and had then gone to a cinema where they had moved to the back row. He had kissed her and put his hands inside her clothing, she said.

That evening, Miss A held a party at her flat. One of her friends, "Monica", later told police that during the party Miss A had told her about the ripped condom and unprotected sex. Another friend told police that during the evening Miss A told her she had had "the worst sex ever" with Assange: "Not only had it been the world's worst screw, it had also been violent."

Assange's supporters point out that, despite her complaints against him, Miss A held a party for him on that evening and continued to allow him to stay in her flat.

On Sunday 15 August, Monica told police, Miss A told her that she thought Assange had torn the condom on purpose. According to Monica, Miss A said Assange was still staying in her flat but they were not having sex because he had "exceeded the limits of what she felt she could accept" and she did not feel safe.

The following day, Miss W phoned Assange and arranged to meet him late in the evening, according to her statement. The pair went back to her flat in Enkoping, near Stockholm. Miss W told police that though they started to have sex, Assange had not wanted to wear a condom, and she had moved away because she had not wanted unprotected sex. Assange had then lost interest, she said, and fallen asleep. However, during the night, they had both woken up and had sex at least once when "he agreed unwillingly to use a condom".

Early the next morning, Miss W told police, she had gone to buy breakfast before getting back into bed and falling asleep beside Assange. She had awoken to find him having sex with her, she said, but when she asked whether he was wearing a condom he said no. "According to her statement, she said: 'You better not have HIV' and he answered: 'Of course not,' " but "she couldn't be bothered to tell him one more time because she had been going on about the condom all night. She had never had unprotected sex before."

Assange has confirmed most of the stories, Both the women were somehow involved with Wikileaks. I am not familiar with Swedish law. The issue appears to be not whether the women consented to sex, but consented to sex without a condom.

Other than what Assange and his supporters are claiming, is there any evidence that he was setup or that the Swedish police was manufacturing evidence?

Catfish

09-08-20, 02:31 PM

Please, we all know why all this happened?
Before you can kill someone or put him in jail with made-up accusations, you first destroy his reputation, so the public condemns said person and asks no more questions. Even when it comes to violating official law like an extradiction to a foreign country. Here it backfired, because the political pressure from the US to forge documents was a bit too obvious.

Forged documents:
https://www.pressenza.com/2020/03/how-swedish-authorities-invented-the-rape-charge-against-julian-assange/

Gerald

09-08-20, 05:55 PM

Swedish legislation is and remains a mystery in many aspects and in the J.A. case it is obvious of a lot due to a feminist attitude in courts which in many cases permeates the judiciary in Sweden in general. Little has changed in the current situation, the same jargon prevails in many ways, tameness, ridiculous and extremely long negotiation times than normal, one should consider this if there is to be a conversation based on such a fuzzy attitude. As previously mentioned here, there are many ambiguities partly from the Preliminary Investigation Protocol and the preliminary investigation, these differ which also results in a weakness partly in police action but also from the first instance in the court chain itself. The witnesses have also not been able to be proven in a safe way, which has been the subject of a number of speculations. If you had shown impartiality from the beginning, you could have sifted the bait away from the wheat.

Bilge_Rat

09-09-20, 05:39 AM

and yet mrs. Anna Ardin, i.e. complainant A, is still claiming that she was assaulted by Assange.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/4/12/18306901/julian-assange-arrest-wikileaks-rape-sweden-embassy

Why should we not believe her?

Catfish

09-09-20, 06:01 AM

^ We can, although this article is from last year, and as i quoted things seem to have changed again.
I am not the judge nor accuser or defender, if they reopened the case and prosecuted him with hard evidence it would be all ok and legal.
But the whole case stinks to the high heavens.

Whatever, an extradition to the US would be illegal and is not on the table.
If the UK wants to play the US' lapdog and break the law to get better trade deals.. we will see.

edit: We should not only speak about a dead cat on the table (Assange), but also about what was being revealed (war crimes), don't you think so? Trying to shoot the messenger is only one side of the story.

Day 2:
https://consortiumnews.com/2020/09/09/day-two-of-assange-hearing-us-tries-to-narrow-its-espionage-charge-to-only-naming-informants-defense-witness-crumbles-under-cross-examination/

Bilge_Rat

09-09-20, 09:01 AM

That is a separate issue. For the reasons I posted here, I do not agree with the decision to prosecute Assange on espionage charges:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2611280&postcount=117

Letting governments decide who is or who is not a "legitimate journalist" is a thoroughly bad idea. I don't agree with what a lot of journalists say or write, but I don't want them censored for political reasons.

If the U.S. has any proof that Assange is in fact a Russian spy, as the Democrats have been claiming since 2016, it should be released publicly.

Jimbuna

09-10-20, 08:45 AM

The extradition hearing for WikiLeaks co-founder Julian Assange has been postponed until Monday due to concerns that one of the lawyers involved may have been exposed to coronavirus.

I doubt a few more days will matter when considering how long he has been in custody.

Gerald

09-10-20, 09:16 AM

All the speculations and "myths" that have been flourishing in his name lately ... are just hypothetical speculations and nothing else. That he should also "have" been a Russian spy is absurd.

Jimbuna

09-11-20, 06:35 AM

Julian Assange has been told to hold his tongue and not interrupt court proceedings by a judge as he contests US attempts to extradite him from Britain to stand trial over his WikiLeaks website.

During the cross-examination of human rights lawyer Clive Stafford-Smith, one of Assange’s own witnesses in his extradition trial, Jules shouted out, “I’m here and by proxy” according to The Times.

District Judge Vanessa Baraitser, presiding, warned Assange to keep quiet, telling the Aussie: “Witnesses must be allowed to give their evidence free from interruption. In these hearings, things will most likely be said which you don’t agree with, and you would like to contradict it and speak about these things yourself. This is not the opportunity to do so.”

The judge added that “it is open to me to proceed without you”, a clear threat to remove the WikiLeaker from the courtroom if he kept on disrupting proceedings.
https://www.theregister.com/2020/09/09/assange_extradition_hearing_london/

Gerald

09-11-20, 06:51 AM

It is amazing that many countries spend huge amounts of tax-financed money on this, and in particular in this way.

Catfish

09-11-20, 02:51 PM

Also amazing how someone can be in court in a country of which he is no citizen, and in which he did not commit a crime.

Jimbuna

09-12-20, 04:30 AM

^ I consider myself to be neutral on the matter but he was convicted on charges of violating the terms of his bail and that ran up a £16million bill for the British taxpayer.

Jimbuna

09-12-20, 10:40 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-DpZNdFITE

Catfish

09-12-20, 01:09 PM

^ I consider myself to be neutral on the matter but he was convicted on charges of violating the terms of his bail and that ran up a £16million bill for the British taxpayer.
Agreed, but why did they even costly try to arrest and then surveyed him? Political reasons, USA, probably not to blame on him?

Jimbuna

09-13-20, 04:29 AM

Agreed, but why did they even costly try to arrest and then surveyed him? Political reasons, USA, probably not to blame on him?

I've no idea but when he was able to enter the embassy building which is technically the land of said country he immediately became untouchable and this would be the case in any other 'civilised' country.

Gerald

09-13-20, 07:51 AM

He would have gone back to continue his kangaroo breeding. Seriously, if he had managed his commitments from the beginning in Sweden, there would have been no parody of this.

Jimbuna

09-13-20, 12:07 PM

Skybird

01-04-21, 06:18 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55528241

No extradition of Assange to the US.

Appeal at the High Court possible, and after that EU Court for Human Rights.

Its high time to set him free. Even then he would live for the rest of his days as a hunted.

Lets rip off more masks.

Jimbuna

01-04-21, 09:42 AM

I doubt it but I wonder if the Harry Dunn case had any bearing on the decision behind the scenes.

Catfish

01-04-21, 10:21 AM

A reminder of how the accusations against Assange were forged.
https://www.pressenza.com/2020/03/how-swedish-authorities-invented-the-rape-charge-against-julian-assange/

Still some admittedly rhetorical questions:
Which are the accusations against Assange, beside the forged ones that have been debunked?
"Breaking into computers"? I take it someone else delivered the info to A:'s organisation?
How did this put US citizens or anyone in danger?
How did the UK manage to spend 16 million pounds to observe someone being in a foreign embassy? Why did they even do that? US pressure?
Has the US been accused of breaking international law based on information Assange made public?

Catfish

06-24-21, 08:23 AM

Now what happenes to Assange?
Will England lock him up forever, without evidence? Or extradict him to the US? What the hell is going on here? It is grotesque.

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2021/06/19/Julian-Assange-fiance-calls-his-detention-in-UK-grotesque-

https://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-says-assange-could-be-next-john-mcafee-suicide-2021-6?op=1

So maybe he will die for whatever reason, preferrably by suicide, how convenient.

Jimbuna

06-24-21, 08:59 AM

Taking into account the Harry Dunn case I'd be reluctant to extradite.

Skybird

06-24-21, 09:10 AM

This case has stunk from day one on and the odour of it has not become weaker in the past years.

An intimidating example is to be executed, any abuse, bending, mutating of the law allowed.

Catfish

06-24-21, 09:22 AM

Taking into account the Harry Dunn case I'd be reluctant to extradite.
Well yes.. but then anyone can only hope that he does not get in such a situation, and become a hostage in international politics. It is about justice and democracy, and this case undermines both.

Jimbuna

06-24-21, 09:31 AM

Well yes.. but then anyone can only hope that he does not get in such a situation, and become a hostage in international politics. It is about justice and democracy, and this case undermines both.

So which is worse. Being incarcerated for years or losing one's life?

Catfish

06-24-21, 01:41 PM

What a question is this? :hmmm:
You want to say that Assange is safe where he is now? He is not. I foresay he will soon die, conveniently.

You discover and publish criminal action done by a government and deserve the Nobel prize, instead they incarcerate you, in a.. democracy? Just a reminder that the accusations were obviously fabricated from day one, the last witness remaining presumed bribed, finally admitting it.

Jimbuna

06-24-21, 01:56 PM

Kai, i'm referring to the fact that Harry Dunn lost his life.

Catfish

06-24-21, 02:57 PM

Those are two different cases..
But fair enough, I became too fixated on Assange.

Jimbuna

06-25-21, 07:51 AM

What I meant and should have referred to in greater detail was....no, I wouldn't extradite on the basis that the US refused to extradite the individual alledgedly responsible for the death of Harry Dunn.

Aktungbby

06-25-21, 11:32 AM

Catfish

01-26-22, 03:48 AM

Julian Assange passes one thousand days in Belmarsh Prison, dubbed “Britain’s Guantanamo Bay”

"For 50 weeks, or 350 days, Assange was held on the basis of trumped-up bail offences, dating back to 2012. The charges were completely illegitimate, given that Assange’s application for political asylum had been approved and upheld by the United Nations after they were laid. Since the bail sentence elapsed, the WikiLeaks publisher has been held on remand, convicted of no crime."

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jan/24/julian-assange-wins-first-stage-of-attempt-to-appeal-against-extradition

NSA:
"Why do you need privacy, nothing to hide, nothing to fear.?

Julian Assange:
"Agreed, this is why i am leaking government files online."

US and UK:
"Kill him!"

Jimbuna

01-26-22, 09:42 AM

Hopefully the Supreme Court will quickly come to a final and definitive decision that will bring matters to a swift conclusion.

Personally speaking, I don't fully understand what is going on, not having given it much thought but the timescales look absolutely ridiculous.

Skybird

01-26-22, 09:48 AM

The time scale is not ridiculous, but wanted. Its called executing a deterring example. As Catfish reminds of and said back then already and as I said back then, too, the whole rape case is just a staged act to get hands on Assnage and tkae revenege. It has always been about just this this, and every other claim is just an opportunistically misleading lie.

States are the coldest of all monsters.

Assange probabaly was a bit naive. Snowden was far more realistic about what to expect. Assnage I cannoit stand, but I defend his cause and doing. Snowden I only have deepest respect for his competence, his courage, his willingness to sacrifice so much of his life, and his deep love for his country. Calling him a traiotr on America, is ridiuclous. Americans, and the whole world, owe him. Unfortunately the media-racing modern society has already almost forgotten about his warnings. The loss of freedoms due to this is all to obvious. Liberty and free thinking is under siege. Not just outside the Western world, but also in the Western world. Liberty is slowly brought down, for the usual excuses. It dies, slowly - but it dies.

Bubblehead1980

01-26-22, 02:40 PM

Yeeees!!!! Now this pompous self righteous individual will get his comeuppance. Wonder who will get the first bite at him. USA or Sweden?

Really? Assange is a hero.

Catfish

01-26-22, 03:47 PM

All freedom is defined by the cage.

mapuc

01-26-22, 04:17 PM

Didn't Sweden drop their charges against him ?

Markus

Skybird

01-26-22, 06:06 PM

Sweden always was just America's poodle in this plot. I showed the tricks the American trainers had taught it. And it was very proud of it like - well, like a trained poodle. :down:
The role of the UK that took over from Sweden was not much better.

They both can be very proud of themselves.

mapuc

01-26-22, 06:10 PM

I remembered correctly Sweden did drop the charges against Assange.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50473792

Markus

Skybird

01-26-22, 08:47 PM

I remembered correctly Sweden did drop the charges against Assange.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50473792

Markus
No need for them to stay involved. They had played their part in that little stageplay and all the damage was done that was their role. And then their role had ended.

Jimbuna

04-10-24, 11:56 AM

Biden 'considering' request to drop Assange charges

US President Joe Biden has said that he is considering Australia's request to drop the prosecution of WikiLeaks' founder Julian Assange.

The country's parliament recently passed a measure - backed by PM Anthony Albanese - calling for the return of Mr Assange to his native Australia.

The US wants to extradite Mr Assange from the UK on criminal charges over the leaking of military records,

Mr Assange denies the charges, saying the leaks were an act of journalism.

When asked on Wednesday whether he had a response to Australia's request, Mr Biden said: "We're considering it."

Mr Assange, 52, is being held in Belmarsh prison and is fighting his extradition in the UK courts.

His lawyers asked the High Court in London in February permission to launch an appeal.

A hearing on a final decision could take place in May.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68784298

Catfish

04-10-24, 01:27 PM

Biden 'considering' request to drop Assange charges
Not enough.

Sweden always was just America's poodle in this plot. I showed the tricks the American trainers had taught it. And it was very proud of it like - well, like a trained poodle. :down:
The role of the UK that took over from Sweden was not much better.
They both can be very proud of themselves.
Some governments should stumble and fall over such action. What better is that than Putin and Navalny.

Catfish

04-13-24, 04:56 AM

"Trump is a russian agent."
(with the same amount of truth as the post above)

Torvald Von Mansee

04-19-24, 12:54 AM

Won't let me delete.

mapuc

04-19-24, 02:27 AM

Won't let me delete.

If you mean post #204 then yes you can't.

You can delete a post/comment as long it is the last post/comment. As soon someone post a reply your possibility to delete vanish.

What you can do is alter the text.

Markus

Jimbuna

04-19-24, 06:44 AM

Won't let me delete.

I'll sort that for you.

Jimbuna

06-26-24, 08:33 AM

Julian Assange lands in Australia a free man

Julian Assange has landed back home in his native Australia, after a plea deal allowed him to walk free from a London prison.

There were emotional scenes at Canberra Airport, as the Wikileaks founder kissed his wife and hugged his father, his lawyers watching on, visibly moved.

"Julian needs time to recover, to get used to freedom," Stella Assange said at a news conference shortly after her husband arrived.

For the past 14 years, Assange has been in a legal battle with US officials who accused him of leaking classified documents, which they say put lives in danger.

The 52-year-old did not attend the news conference in Canberra, instead letting his lawyer and wife speak for him.

"You have to understand what he's been through," Mrs Assange said, adding that they need time to "let our family be a family".

The couple married in London's Belmarsh prison in 2022, and have two children together.

The plea deal saw Julian Assange plead guilty to one charge of conspiracy to obtain and disclose national defence information, rather than the 18 he was originally facing.

The case centred around a massive Wikileaks disclosure in 2010 when the website released a video from a US military helicopter which showed civilians being killed in the Iraqi capital Baghdad.

It also published thousands of confidential documents suggesting that the US military had killed hundreds of civilians in unreported incidents during the war in Afghanistan.

The revelations became a huge story, prompting reaction from all corners of the globe, and led to intense scrutiny of American involvement in foreign conflicts.

Assange formally entered the charge on the remote Northern Mariana Islands, an American territory in the Pacific, two days after leaving Belmarsh prison.

In return, he was sentenced to time already served and released to fly home.

His lawyer, Jen Robinson, told media that the deal was "criminalisation of journalism" and set a "dangerous precedent".

Echoing this, Mrs Assange said she hopes the media "realise the danger of this" conviction for "newsgathering and publishing information that was in the public interest".

His lawyer also gave details on a phone call between Assange and Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, who has been instrumental in securing his release.

Assange told the prime minister that he "saved his life", Ms Robinson said, adding: "I don't think that's an exaggeration".

"This is a huge win that Australia stood up to an ally and demanded the return of an Australian citizen," she said.

Mr Albanese held his own news conference on Wednesday, saying he is "very pleased" that the case is over, adding that the Wikileaks founder has been through a "considerable ordeal".

The PM has said in the past that he does not agree with everything Assange has done, but "enough was enough" and it was time for him to be released, making the case a priority.

When asked whether the plea deal may affect US-Australia relations, he said: "We have a very positive relationship with the United States. I regard President Biden as a friend, I regard their relationship as being absolutely central."

Assange spent the last five years behind bars at London's high-security Belmarsh Prison, fighting US attempts to extradite him to face charges over the document leaks.

In 2010, he faced separate charges of rape and sexual assault in Sweden, which he denied. He spent seven years hiding in Ecuador's London embassy, claiming the Swedish case would lead him to be sent to the US.

Swedish authorities dropped that case in 2019 and said that too much time had passed since the original complaint.

Women's rights groups in Sweden say it is a shame he never faced official questioning over the rape allegations.

"It's a chapter of shame and betrayal that ends with his release," Clara Berglund, head of the Swedish Women's Lobby, told Reuters news agency.

"This is about a case that takes place on the major political stages, and men's violence against women is given incredibly little weight."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxee24pvl94o