Holy Smokes! Why Did People Not Like This?

[Pooch]

I saw so many posts tearing SH5 apart that I figured, "Forget it!" I've really enjoyed SH4, though, and all of the beautiful SH5 screenshots made me want this, too. What the hell. For 10 bucks?
Damn! It's one of the best looking games I've ever seen. I like my U.S. subs and it was hard coming to the dark side, but I'm lovin' this!
I've got some great mods on it and I have all graphics on max. It's a beautiful game. And I am thoroughly immersed. Being able to walk all over my U-Boat really makes me feel as though I'm on this thing. Just leaving Kiel during the campaign was one of the most realistic simming experiences I've ever had.
Good game. Not sure why it got such bad press.

[Sailor Steve]

A big part of the reason was that as pretty as it may be, the gameplay was anything but. Many of the things that made SH3 so popular were lacking in SH5. The campaign was awful. Though it was claimed to be easy to mod there is still a singular lack of variety in the types of merchants available. Walking through the entire sub was cool for about five minutes. Talking to the officers to keep the morale up got old real fast. You can't run a Type II or Type IX boat. Whereas people compained about having to micromanage the crew in SH3, and that was properly fixed in SH4, SH5 "fixed" it further by removing the crew altogether, so there's nothing to manage.

While it's true that many of those things have been fixed, it's also true that the most talented modders have spent several years fixing what was broken, and are still unable to add many of the features available in earlier versions of the Silent Hunter Franchise. Features like working locks in the canals and harbor entrances are still not there.

So if gorgeous graphics are your raison d'être when judging a game, then yes, SH5 is far beyond anything we've seen. If a realistic feel for the u-boat war is what you're after, then SH3 is still the best game out there.

Understand that I'm not knocking SH5. Many people love it and wouldn't play anything else. I just had such high hopes for it, and while I'm still hoping I'm also still waiting for something that may never happen. But then I still play the 20-year-old Aces of the Deep, so my orientation is a bit different than most.

[Pooch]

I was very impressed with the graphics, so it may have come off in my post that its the only thing I'm interested in.
But, actually, I see nothing wrong with the gameplay. Maybe it's because I don't particularly like to manage my crew, so I don't miss that. I don't bother with it in SH4, either. Never played SH3.
You still have to hunt down enemy shipping, get yourself lined up for a good shot, dodge destroyers and airplanes...etc. I don't see the gameplay being all that dramatically different. Must be me. Maybe I'm easy to please.
I'm also not running into any of the bugs that its supposed to have. The only thing that was bothering me was the sticky mouse problem. Last night I discovered "Anti-lag." Pure genius. Problem solved.
I like it. Very much.

[Webster]

I was very impressed with the graphics, so it may have come off in my post that its the only thing I'm interested in.
But, actually, I see nothing wrong with the gameplay. Maybe it's because I don't particularly like to manage my crew, so I don't miss that. I don't bother with it in SH4, either. Never played SH3.
You still have to hunt down enemy shipping, get yourself lined up for a good shot, dodge destroyers and airplanes...etc. I don't see the gameplay being all that dramatically different. Must be me. Maybe I'm easy to please.
I'm also not running into any of the bugs that its supposed to have. The only thing that was bothering me was the sticky mouse problem. Last night I discovered "Anti-lag." Pure genius. Problem solved.
I like it. Very much.

all I can say is play the purely stock unmodded game and then speak to how good the sh5 gameplay is.

you cant compare a modded game to express an opinion on the game itself. you have to specify the "modded" sh5 is a good game because the stock game is very bad and the game play is like a poorly made arcade game at best.

mods made the game good and very likable simulator but its barely tollerable from a simulator perspective as an unmodded stock game

[adrians69]

A big part of the reason was that as pretty as it may be, the gameplay was anything but. Many of the things that made SH3 so popular were lacking in SH5. The campaign was awful. Though it was claimed to be easy to mod there is still a singular lack of variety in the types of merchants available. Walking through the entire sub was cool for about five minutes. Talking to the officers to keep the morale up got old real fast. You can't run a Type II or Type IX boat. Whereas people compained about having to micromanage the crew in SH3, and that was properly fixed in SH4, SH5 "fixed" it further by removing the crew altogether, so there's nothing to manage.

While it's true that many of those things have been fixed, it's also true that the most talented modders have spent several years fixing what was broken, and are still unable to add many of the features available in earlier versions of the Silent Hunter Franchise. Features like working locks in the canals and harbor entrances are still not there.

So if gorgeous graphics are your raison d'être when judging a game, then yes, SH5 is far beyond anything we've seen. If a realistic feel for the u-boat war is what you're after, then SH3 is still the best game out there.

Understand that I'm not knocking SH5. Many people love it and wouldn't play anything else. I just had such high hopes for it, and while I'm still hoping I'm also still waiting for something that may never happen. But then I still play the 20-year-old Aces of the Deep, so my orientation is a bit different than most.

How good is Aces of the Deep? and is it still available anywhere do you know?

Thanks
Adrian

[Pistoliero]

Okay, now I play first mission (British coastal waters, sink 50 000 tons). I sail to marked area and sink freighters. Commonly after ship sinking progress bar stands still. Only once or twice tonnage was actually counted towards mission limit.
Game does not even give any hint why it works this way. My guess is that hunting area on the map is inaccurate, but can be anything else.

That's a good example why people don't like the game - simple core mechanics does not work half of the time without visible reason.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Pistoliero

I have played BCW many times and never had the problem that you mention.

As long as you are within or close to the patrol band in any mission your sinkings should count towards your tonnage except neutrals of course.

What mods are you using?

Peter

[THEBERBSTER]

SH5 still continues to take knocks.

When you consider you have the Reworked Submarine Damage mod.

You can operate the Dive Planes.

You can use a Sextant to get Celestial Fixes.

You can adjust the Wind Speed.

You can have your Decks Awash.

You can have Independent Engine Controls.

Air to Air combat.

Coastal Artillery.

Active Searchlights.

You can change your Map Colours.

Superb Graphics.

Some excellent Interface and Campaign mods.

Mod soups you can put together without ctd’s if you know what you are doing.

And much more.

Those who do not understand how SH5 works continue to knock it and are not prepared to learn it either by the documentation or the Forum Posts and so it does not get the chance it deserves because people give up on it.

We seasoned skippers appreciate the hard work that has gone in to making this a game full of immersion and with a realism aspect that allows you to take it as far your ability can handle.

I play both SH4 and SH5 all the time and enjoy playing these two contrasting games.

Peter

[Pistoliero]

Hi Pistoliero

I have played BCW many times and never had the problem that you mention.

As long as you are within or close to the patrol band in any mission your sinkings should count towards your tonnage except neutrals of course.

What mods are you using?

Peter

Hello, THEBERBSTER.

I don't have any mods yet, playing stock 1.2 for now.

Can you please comment, what I am doing wrong?
I start the campaign, go to flotilla commander and request mission in BCW area. He gives me mission (yellow ship mark on the map; sometimes this mark is even slightly outside of the red marked BCW area). So my uboat sails to marked area and either I meet and sink any ship here (yellow mark disappears after this) or nothing happens for 2-3 days (if so, I get new yellow mark via radio and move there; repeat).

After any ship is sunk near patrol area mark, mark disappears, so I start to patrol random places of big red marked area (trying to be close to ports) and sink ships here. Most of the sinkings do not count.
And just in case, I am NOT an owner of pirate game copy (95% of search results on my problem give me "stop using pirated software" so far).

[Sailor Steve]

How good is Aces of the Deep?
The Good: It came with a fully dynamic campaign that allowed you to start just after the beginning of the war (October 1939) and progress from a Type II u-boat to a Type XXI.

It had a nightclub you could visit to pick up the latest scuttlebutt (just like in Das Boot), and it wasn't always accurate.

The gameplay is still better than anything that's come out since. I've had escorts follow my like bloodhounds, but I've also had the opposite. One of my favorite moments came early in the war when a destroyer charged toward my position, ran right above me at full speed and then slowed down and started dropping depth charges about a mile beyond my position. I've never had anything like that happen to me in any other game.

The damage control is still the most realistic there is. In the damage control screen you see a picture of the boat's interior. Clicking on it does nothing. If you get damaged and go to the screen the damaged area will be circled. Clicking on the circled area will give you a screen showing the LI's report, including an estimated repair time, which isn't always accurate.

You could call in and request a change of patrol grid.

Every so often you would be offered a newer boat. You didn't have to take it.

When you did something great, or when you died, you would see a newspaper headline describing the event.

You occasionally get a report of a convoy departing some port, usually one far away from where you're at.

Working time compression that went up to 4096 times normal speed, and dropped you back into real time the instant anything was spotted.

The Bad: You didn't have a choice of which flotilla to start in, or what type of boat you wanted to start in.

The campaign allowed starting at certain periods of the war, but not month-by-month.

Of course the sound and the graphics are extremely dated. That doesn't bother me most of the time, but one of my great pleasures in SH3 has been sailing in and out of the harbors with dozens of ships coming and going, and just enjoying the sights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d9RJxBylUs

and is it still available anywhere do you know?
Only very rarely, for a very high price, and with no guarantee it will even run on modern systems.

[Sailor Steve]

SH5 still continues to take knocks.
As do the others. Every game has its flaws, depending on what you expect from it. For me the knocks to SH5 are different than most. I judge the game by what it still can't do, compared to the others.

You can operate the Dive Planes.
Something no real-life captain could do. One of my biggest compaints about SH2 was the mod that allowed you to fly the sub like an airplane. Modern subs can do that. WW2 subs could not.

You can use a Sextant to get Celestial Fixes.
Certainly one of SH5's biggest selling points. SH3 has a Celestial Navigation mod, but it doesn't come close the the one by DarkWraith for SH5.

You can have Independent Engine Controls.
Really? Can you steer the boat with the engines? That would be a huge plus.

Those who do not understand how SH5 works continue to knock it and are not prepared to learn it either by the documentation or the Forum Posts and so it does not get the chance it deserves because people give up on it.
I agree, and as I've said many people think it's the best there is. Me, I'm still waiting on a Type II.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Pistoliero

What you are doing wrong is playing Stock!

Are you using Steam?

If you are not a Steam user do you have TDW's Generic File Patcher and Option File Editor Installed?

Take the time to go through my Tutorials.

Everything you need is there for the beginner.

There is no reason why you cannot start off as a beginner with a good mod content that works without ctd's.

All the instructions are there.

Link to my SH5 – SH4 posts:

Step By Step Tutorials & How To Do It

Also Included Are Some Useful Download Links

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=211804 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=211804)

If you have a problem just PM me and we will take as long as it takes to get you up and running with a game worth playing.

Peter

[BigWalleye]

Really? Can you steer the boat with the engines? That would be a huge plus.

No, you can't. You can control the speed of the two engines independently, and stop one while going ahead on the other at slow turns. So you can creep under Silent Running. But, last I looked, it was not possible to generate a turning moment that way. Turning must be done with the rudder.

TDW may have found a way around this by now. SH5 keeps moving ahead so fast, it's hard to keep up. That's one reason I stopped playing it. Every mod was a "Must Have." I could never get through more than a patrol or two without changing everything.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Steve

As SH5 seems to strive for further perfection this is the latest addition.

Starting with v1.0.165.0 added a new patch to SHSim_act: RPM inertia. Player's unit and AI unit's shafts/props will now have inertia and thus will not 'spin up' or 'spin down' at ridiculous speeds. See the Notes= of the patch for how to change the multipliers

Peter

[adrians69]

You're right Pooch, with the right mods SH5 is arguably the best in the series. Certainly the most realistic navigation system out there with Real Nav. Also punishing AI with IRAI. Good hunting!! :up:

[Sailor Steve]

No, you can't. You can control the speed of the two engines independently, and stop one while going ahead on the other at slow turns. So you can creep under Silent Running. But, last I looked, it was not possible to generate a turning moment that way. Turning must be done with the rudder.
That's still pretty cool. Thanks for the heads-up.

TDW may have found a way around this by now. SH5 keeps moving ahead so fast, it's hard to keep up. That's one reason I stopped playing it. Every mod was a "Must Have." I could never get through more than a patrol or two without changing everything.
I have been asked why, after nine years, I have still not gotten past 1940 in SH3. Every time some new mod comes out that affects things at the beginning of the war I stop all my careers (one from each flotilla) and start over again with the new mods. Maybe I have OCD. Maybe I'm just flat-out insane. In fact I'm sure both are true, but it's the only way I can do it. :sunny:

Starting with v1.0.165.0 added a new patch to SHSim_act: RPM inertia. Player's unit and AI unit's shafts/props will now have inertia and thus will not 'spin up' or 'spin down' at ridiculous speeds. See the Notes= of the patch for how to change the multipliers
That also sounds really cool. If I ever finally get a computer that will run SH5 I do mean to finally load it up (I've owned a copy since the day they removed the "online only" requirement). I'm pretty sure the "no Type II" thing will still be a limitation for me, though.