inconvenient truths

[Skybird]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF1L74YHMAg

Lesson to be learnt, if you do not already know it: NEVER take help of others for granted.

[Jimbuna]

How about a few years behind bars for a public disorder offence?

I noticed the Obama lookalike was of no help or use...nothing much changed there then :)

[Skybird]

Don't be a clerk, Jim. Obviously the thing to take note of is something else.

BTW, the police had been informed by them in advance. ;) Obviously there were no objections. So why jailing them when they hold the mirror at people'S faces?

I was once in a comparable situation, while standing in line at a supermarket cashdesk. Another customer collapsed with an epileptic attack. Of two or three dozen people and staff, I was the only one trying to help the man, at the same time yelling at staff to grab their telephones and to call an ambulance, and that it was an epileptic attack. I was still young back then and did not everything right what today I would know better, but still - I were the only one at least TRYING to help.

When I see staring mobs at the scene of accidents, crimes and things like this, I get angry and very aggressive very rapidly. I hate staring monkeys and babbling retards. I wish the police would bring up water cannons and have them getting the full load without further warning.

[Jimbuna]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'clerk' so I'll take no offence but it could be a typo and you may care to elaborate.

A question....what if this foolish prank brought about a heart attack to an innocent bystander?

I've also quite a lot of experience of being first on the scene of serious injury, often fatal events. Bystanders are unavoidable in public places, most find it hard to cope because they aren't trained to deal with such events. During my time in uniform (and often whilst off duty) events would quickly escalate into more serious situations and at this point your much better equipped to deal with the situation if you can ignore what we called the 'Ghouls'

[Skybird]

I meant no offence, I meant a "Paragraphenreiter" (=somebody who is riding the paragraphs to be pedantic and beancounting)
.

Somebody getting a heart attack? Well, that would suck when he is in a crowd where nobody would care to help him, right? Maybe one reason more why to hold the mirror to people'S faces?

And once again: the group had announced in advance to the NY police what they planned to do. Obviously nobody told them to not do it.

Though you are right, that there is a question of ethics involved. That also was the case with more well-known and elaborated social psychology experiments like them Milgram and the Stanford Prison Experiment. At some popint the experimenters thought thta a red line was crowssed, and they broke off early. I do not see this being the case here. Social psychology knows too many examples where people get brought to death by an assassin or a violent husband or wife - and bystanders and house neighbours flocked to the stairhouse by the dozens in reaction to the yelling: and just watched and chatted, but did not help and did not even call the police. Just telling such stories seems to have zero effect ion people. So I am for confronting people a little bit more. And training, you mentioned? Does it need special training these days to react naturally and humanely and at least think of calling the polcie instead of taking photos for Instagram or just fleeing the scene of action? We do not talk that everybody should have insider police or medic knowledge on how to manage the events on the scene. Just a little common sense, a little civil courage, and a little humane empathy. Nothing of that needs special training. What needs training is how to unlearn these qualities.

It seems that human mass civilization and living in crowded places comes at a loss. It does not make the mass any more civilized, or humane. It seems to cost the mass these qualities.

[Feuer Frei!]

In relation to people gawking and standing idly by while a incident takes place, or people babbling or breaking down and crying or running away or god knows what, remember, we are not all heroes.

People unfortunately deal with crisis or incidents of distress in all manner of ways.

When dealing with behaviour of humans, nothing is black and white.

Even though you may want it to be so.

[Skybird]

We do not talk about helpful people who do not know how to help, and got no training, Feuer. The video - and me - are abouit people we call 2Gaffer" in German, and you know that. People who think they have the right to block routes for police and firebrigades and ambulances so that they can see better. Who take pictures with their smartphones and post them online, maybe in real time. People who feel annoyed when fate strikes near them, for it ruins their plan to have a funny day, and so they attack the victim verbally and want it to get away. People who take it as a personbal affront when a victim dares to ruin their mood by confronting them with its miserable sight.

Gaffer, Feuer, thats what we call them in German, dont we. Stupid, blood-horny, sensationalist disaster tourists.

This is not about cluelessness resulting from lacking preparation and no trianing for how to deal with such situations, Feuer. Just a little common sense, a little civil courage, and a little humane empathy.

And if somebody over this video should get locked, then it is those who did nothing (for "unterlassene Hilfeleistung": non-assistance of a person in danger, which by German law is a punishable offence AFAIK), and those who even took pictures and post them, for that is a violation of privacy and personal rights of the viuctim, to put it this way.

Gaffer are not Gaffer because they lack the training to react adequately, Feuer. They are Gaffer because they enjoy the show. And those who just run away in the video, are either brutal egoists not wanting to care, or are cowards.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Don't be a clerk, Jim. Obviously the thing to take note of is something else.

BTW, the police had been informed by them in advance. ;) Obviously there were no objections. So why jailing them when they hold the mirror at people'S faces?

I was once in a comparable situation, while standing in line at a supermarket cashdesk. Another customer collapsed with an epileptic attack. Of two or three dozen people and staff, I was the only one trying to help the man, at the same time yelling at staff to grab their telephones and to call an ambulance, and that it was an epileptic attack. I was still young back then and did not everything right what today I would know better, but still - I were the only one at least TRYING to help.

When I see staring mobs at the scene of accidents, crimes and things like this, I get angry and very aggressive very rapidly. I hate staring monkeys and babbling retards. I wish the police would bring up water cannons and have them getting the full load without further warning.
The same exact thing happened to me as well. There was a bagger at my grocery store who was was helping a woman carry her groceries (he had some form of disability) and all of a sudden he dropped the bags and screams. He just froze and tipped backwards, and hit the ground and started seizing. For like 10 seconds nobody was trying to help him, they were just staring at him, so me and a couple other people started helping before any of the staff actually started doing anything. People need to get a hold of themselves and actually help instead of standing there befuddled while a person is potentially dying.

[Skybird]

I can understand that unprepared people need reaction and adaptation time, yes.

What all this here is about is not delayed reaction - but no reacton or disgusting reaction. A ghoul like Jim called them, is no helpful people. He is a brutal egoist on an egotrip at the cost of somebody needing his help instead.

[Armistead]

When I was a paramedic, even decades ago, this was common. However, for the most part people did help, stand back and call 911 and no dummy tried to pull the knife out. People get scared when they see something like this, an attack and don't know who, why or what may be going on. Heck, usually we had so many idiots around screaming and playing doctor when we got there is could be a chore.

[Skybird]

For the fourth time: the video - and me - do not target or complain about people not knowing what to do when getting surprised by something like this. The problem is people who very well make decisions here: to take pictures and to post them, to stay on the scene to enjoy the show without doing anything positive, to not even call help but just get away so that their private lives and plans for the day do not get delayed by a minute when calling 911 or sitting by the side of an injured for five minutes until the medics come.

The distorted standards, the failure of basic rules of being a "civilised" person.

Like probably almost everybody here I occasionally came across street scenes of a car accident or an ambulance parked and a patient getting loaded in, or a collision on the Autobahn. But I always moved on when seeing my help is not needed and help already is on scene, I never felt the need to just stand and stare. Why should I? It is so completely beyond me that I fail to see how people could react like this and decide to stand and watch the show, pointing fingers and grinning in excitement. Its no decision of mine, and no force I use against myself to prevent me from standing and watching - to me it is just the natural thing to do: you cannot do anything, your help makes no difference and is not needed or wanted - so you move on. You make no difference - so why stare at the intimate suffering of somebody else?

But being able to help by calling an ambulance with your cellphone; or instead of doing that using the cellphone camera to take pictures of a man in need...??? Or being angry about the victim of an apparent crime daring to ruin your evening by exposing its bleeding wound to you when it collapses on the street...?

Sorry, I do not forgive that, and accept no excuses for that.

The problem here is a fail in moral standards (photo-takers, and social-psychological group dynamics known as "bystander effects". It says that the more bystanders are witnessing an event where their help would be needed, the less probability there is that any of them actually will help indeed. I would attribute both also to some tpyical failures in civilzational value systems deriving from living in modern mass environments and metropoles.