Bowe Bergdahl

[Gerald]

I hope that the outcome will be good, and that this was a strength showing up in the U.S.

http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q764/gasturbin/_68330952_hi018405332_zpsd806e5c5.jpg (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/gasturbin/media/_68330952_hi018405332_zpsd806e5c5.jpg.html)
Scores of Harley Davidson riders joined the Bring Bowe Back rally in the missing soldier's hometown in Idaho.

They were heard before they were seen. More than 100 Harley-Davidsons growled into the remote town of Hailey on a warm Saturday afternoon.

They had ridden from as far away as Utah, California and Nevada, cutting through the vast russet coloured mountains of Idaho to this small Sun Valley community.

The motorbikes arrived in a cloud of dust that dazzled with chrome. Leading the line was the father of Bowe Bergdahl, riding the motorcycle of his missing son.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23021734

Note: 23 June 2013 Last updated at 15:12 GMT

[Armistead]

Haven't seen a thread on it yet, but if one floating...delete.

IMO Obama has lost his mind his last term or more. Obama had to know this man was a deserter. He signed a bill to give congress notice and ignored it. We all know these 5 Taliban leaders will soon be back in the business of terror. For the life of me I can't believe all the Dem spin I've heard this morning.

My question is...do you think Bergdahl will face trial or will Obama find a way to cover it. It seems this would be a military issue, that they would be having hearings and making the decision?


http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/article/20140608/WDH06/306080220/Letter-Returning-POW-Bowe-Bergdahl-not-hero-traitor-yet

[Sailor Steve]

What we think is irrelevant. Either he is or he isn't, and anyone who thinks one way or the other will be proven wrong or right. Idle speculation is useless.

[Admiral Halsey]

If it was any of the previous administrations i'd say he wouldn't have even been exchanged.

[Jimbuna]

At this point in time I would have to agree with Tina Grimm below but only an investigation will ever bring the matter to a definitive end one way or the other.

My opinion of the debate about returning American soldier Bowe Bergdahl is that he had to come home, not only for his well-being and his family’s but for all of us moms who sent our whole worlds off to war.

Once Bergdahl is back and stable, I wholehearted agree that questions need to be asked and those who are in the position to find out what happened need to decide on potential consequences. In my eyes, he’s not a hero or a traitor at this point. All that is just the different news channels playing on people’s biases. In my eyes, he’s just a son returning home after five long years.

[Tribesman]

IMO Obama has lost his mind his last term or more. On what grounds?

Obama had to know this man was a deserter. Did he? Was He ?
And why on earth would it make the slightest bit of difference if both answers are eventually proven positive?

He signed a bill to give congress notice and ignored it. Lets see, these releases have been in the pipeline for 4 years.
1 year and 3 months ago the final deal was put forward by the US.
3 months ago the afghan government on a visit to the US urged the prisoners to accept the deal.
How can congress claim they were unaware of it for the required 28 days?
Were they asleep 4 years ago? were they still asleep 15 moths ago? did they doze on 3 months ago?

We all know these 5 Taliban leaders will soon be back in the business of terror. For that to happen you would have to designate the Taliban as a terrorist group.

For the life of me I can't believe all the Dem spin I've heard this morning. Yet I am not at all surprised at the Republican spin.
I do think Fox has really excelled itself in being lowlife pondscum on this issue.
O'Reilly really was the cream of the malignant crop, though of course I don't think he will accept any blame for the death threats now being issued to the family, after all the famiy do look like muslims don't they.
Though I suppose if you put a bandana on it and started ranting about woopsies they could look like the duck dynasty and be heralded for expressing their views as free born Americans:rotfl2:


@Halsey
If it was any of the previous administrations i'd say he wouldn't have even been exchanged. Exchanges, even contravercial ones are a long running regular occurance through numerous previous administrations.
Don't forget that those raising the loudest objections are the very people who sing the praises of people who made certain prisoner swaps when they were clearly and very specifically banned under US law.

@Buna
At this point in time I would have to agree with Tina Grimm below but only an investigation will ever bring the matter to a definitive end one way or the other.

Well said.

[Oberon]

Basically

(read from bottom up [Better now Schroeder? :O:])

https://24.media.tumblr.com/6598eac73569e6ad805217394a6ed329/tumblr_n6phfeCex81qz9bu3o1_400.png

https://swingcoachshow.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/merica.jpg

[Tribesman]

Basically


:har::har::har::har:
Classic:up:
Plus don't forget. We are told repeatedly by certain people that anyone who puts on a uniform is somehow magically special.
Bergdahl put on a uniform so he too is special.

[Armistead]

What we think is irrelevant. Either he is or he isn't, and anyone who thinks one way or the other will be proven wrong or right. Idle speculation is useless.

So OK for Obama not to consult with congress and free basically the leaders for the Taliban.

[Oberon]

Then, of course, there's Fox News:

https://31.media.tumblr.com/8f1b5e235d24e502bddad0884f8985f2/tumblr_n6nv7vg3Z51qz8x31o2_500.gif

https://31.media.tumblr.com/8d9188870c5603ee42cdd46b787c76c2/tumblr_n6nv7vg3Z51qz8x31o3_500.gif

So...beards make you look like the Taliban, right?

http://media.salon.com/2013/10/duck_dynasty_beards.jpg
Taliban members on tour.

http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/-images/2010/07/13/80092/size0-army.mil-80092-2010-07-13-220703.jpg
Jewish Taliban

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/378163_10151390217367003_1712441966_n.jpg
Sikh Taliban

http://i.imgur.com/NfwD0EB.jpg?1
Green Beret Taliban

Gee, those Taliban sure do come in different shapes and sizes.

And this morning I hear that Bowe Bergdahls father is receiving death threats (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/08/us-usa-afghanistan-bergdahl-idUSKBN0EJ02720140608), as if he isn't already going through enough with the media building his son up and then tearing him apart.

So, my opinion is:

http://i.imgur.com/XqvWDUY.jpg

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

http://imageshack.com/a/img818/323/k9ml.gif

[Tribesman]

So OK for Obama not to consult with congress and free basically the leaders for the Taliban.

If the leaders of the Taliban have been in Cuba all this time then who has been kicking your butt in Afghanistan for the past decade?

[Catfish]

Methinks this thread should have stopped after Oberon's post.
This was a good one :hmmm:

[Mr Quatro]

Methinks this thread should have stopped after Oberon's post.
This was a good one :hmmm:


Methinks this is one of the nicer threads I have seen on the net on the subject of Bergdahl/five Taliban prisoner exchange.

I'm shocked it took 8 days to wind up here, but I'm glad it did take that long. I've been up and I've been down about this exchange.

A man's life was involved, Bergdahl's life that is. I was mad and I was angry, but after seeing the filmed release by the Taliban my heart melted for him, no matter what the rest of the story may yield ...

President Obama did the right thing ... Congress is Washington and Congress would've spoiled the deal ... the same deal that has been discussed for over four years.

True President Obama's desire is to empty and close Guantanamo Bay, but these same five men were going to be released next year anyway as the war in Afghanistan winds down this is what they do ... release prisoners.

Better to get something now than nothing later.

This was a good deal and most important it is a done deal.

Sure those five men are still dangerous and they will return to fighting the war in Afghanistan, but only a few American soldiers will be left by then for training the Afghanistan army.

Get over it ... America did the right thing.

[Stealhead]

Israel has traded hundreds of prisoners for one single IDF solider and for them that is a much larger risk(to release direct combatants)seeing as they are literally surrounded by enemies.

There currently no solid proof that Bergdahl deserted.

What was that thing back in the day? Oh yeah Iran-Contra oops.

[Armistead]

The men that served with him are all clear and together that he deserted his post. Six men lost their lives searching for him. My fear is we'll never get the full truth because it's now so political. My issue is Obama ignored congress once again.

These 5 aren't your average fighters, two are wanted by the UN for possible war crimes and that route should've been taken to try them, instead of free them to do it again. All of them are top leaders and it won't be long these guys will be back in charge killing innocent people in Afghanistan.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2648055/Bowe-Bergdahl-DID-walk-away-post-captured-Afghanistan-classified-report-reveals-wasnt-time.html

[mapuc]

From an Danish article about the American standpoint on this issue

Have used Google translate

"exchange with the Taliban are dividing the U.S.
Americans are divided on the issue
whether President Barack Obama
did the right thing by swapping five
Members of the Taliban for the U.S.
happen POW Bowe Bergdahl

According to a poll conducted by
Reuters.

44 percent of those surveyed responded that the prisoner exchange should never have taken place, while 29 percent believe that Obama did the right thing. The remaining 27 percent are unsure.#

78 percent also said that the United States must
do everything they can to liberate
POWs as Bergdahl."

Markus

[Platapus]

It should also be remembered that when President Obama signed this law, he also issued what is called a "signing statement" where he informed congress that he felt the law was unconstitutional and was an infringement on the powers of the Executive Branch.

In effect, he was saying that "yes it is a law, but I am not bound by it due to separation of powers". Unfortunately, signing statements have become common (too common) in the past 40 years. :down:

[Oberon]

So, essentially this is yet another 'whatever Obama does we're going to bash him for it' thread? :hmmm:

If he hadn't have got Bergdahl released it would be all "Obama get our man back" "Obama doesn't like our troops" "Get our man back, what is taking you so long" and since he's got him back it's "That man was a traitor" "Obama is negotiating with terrorists".

http://www.mikechurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/barack-obama-deal-with-it-300x205.jpg?33471f

[Armistead]

So, essentially this is yet another 'whatever Obama does we're going to bash him for it' thread? :hmmm:

If he hadn't released Bergdahl it would be all "Obama get our man back" "Obama doesn't like our troops" "Get our man back, what is taking you so long" and since he's got him back it's "That man was a traitor" "Obama is negotiating with terrorists".

http://www.mikechurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/barack-obama-deal-with-it-300x205.jpg?33471f

This has been going on for years...Obama refused several times before. It may be he is a deserter, but as liberal Feinstein pointed out...he didn't follow the law in getting him out. In not doing so, he can forget getting Gitmo closed. My bigger issue is two are wanted by the UN for war crimes...and that should've happened, not traded where they will go back killing again.

We have plenty evidence that it's clear he willingly left his post.....

[Oberon]

This has been going on for years...Obama refused several times before. It may be he is a deserter, but as liberal Feinstein pointed out...he didn't follow the law in getting him out. In not doing so, he can forget getting Gitmo closed. My bigger issue is two are wanted by the UN for war crimes...and that should've happened, not traded where they will go back killing again.

We have plenty evidence that it's clear he willingly left his post.....

So, if he left his post then he is no longer an American citizen, is that it?

[Tribesman]

Methinks this thread should have stopped after Oberon's post.
This was a good one :hmmm:
You would have thought so, but Armistead keeps digging his hole.:nope:

So lets see what he delivered, the Daily Fail...no that's too easy.

Ah the UN, that's the evil UN of course:03:
So that's under the treaty that the US voted against.
Not a good start
So that's the treaty that the US and Sudan said no way hosea to:yep:
Definitely not a good start.
Speedy trial, no torture , full disclosure, full legal representation...ooops you can see why they couldn't hand over the Taliban for trial can't you.
Its definitely not starting well at all.

Ok forget all the obvious stuff, ignore all the screw ups which arise from the Gitmo mess and the clear problems of jurisdiction when a state says it is not a party to the party.
Lets pretend those complications don't exist and go straight to the preliminary report on war crimes and crimes against humanity in Afghanistan.
Damn there's a lot of mentions of the US led coalition in there. Funnily enough one of the US backed warlords one of the Taliban 5 is accused of crimes against is accused of the very same crimes himself:hmmm:
But what the hell lets go with the flow and hand over the Taliban leaders, and also hand over the US leaders, put Bush and Obama on the same flight to the Hague after all they were in command, add in all the US troops implicated plus the other coilition forces and then pack it out with all the coilitions Afghan allies who get a mention.
After all fairs fair and if you want to hand people over to the Hauge then you must hand over everyone or it isn't justice.

So then Armistead are you eager to hand over any of those Americans for trial?

[Armistead]

So, if he left his post then he is no longer an American citizen, is that it?

Wait and see, he will be found a deserter and traitor that an American president traded 5 of our worse enemy while we're still in war. I'll trust those that served with him and knew him over the spin going on now to get Obama out of another mess.

I wasn't aware Bush or Obama were wanted for war crimes by the UN...your facts please?

Yes, he is an American, but a traitor and should be quickly tried by the military, not the WH.....and then quickly executed for his crimes.

[Stealhead]

The men that served with him are all clear and together that he deserted his post.


So because a handful of former Army soldiers say he was a deserter he was.

Yeah I do not trust any media outlet when they say they found a bunch of guys that served with him unless you show me their DD-214 and detailed service record that shows that they did in fact serve in the same exact unit (and it would have to very exact as in some platoon) it is nothing more than hearsay and even then it could still be hearsay.

[Armistead]

So because a handful of former Army soldiers say he was a deserter he was.

Yeah I do not trust any media outlet when they say they found a bunch of guys that served with him unless you show me their DD-214 and detailed service record that shows that they did in fact serve in the same exact unit (and it would have to very exact as in some platoon) it is nothing more than hearsay and even then it could still be hearsay.

6 were exact same platoon and all say he deserted. We have numerous other facts now that he had issues.

[Tribesman]

your facts please?
Wow...just wow:doh:

Are you not familiar with the 3rd and 4th?
More particularly the breaches which go beyond normal war crimes and become grave breaches:hmmm:

I suppose if you get confused you could ask the bloke that dealt with war criminals in places like Darfur Uganda Libya Congo CAR Mali Ivory Coast and Columbia. One would assume that he is a bit of an expert on stuff like war crimes as its his job.

Or are you one of those strange people who said the Geneva and Hague conventions don't apply and also said that torture isn't really torture.
Perhaps the shock of the US courts saying its commanders were not only breaking international laws of war but also breaking US military law was so shocking that you blanked it from your memory.

[Oberon]

Wait and see, he will be found a deserter and traitor that an American president traded 5 of our worse enemy while we're still in war. I'll trust those that served with him and knew him over the spin going on now to get Obama out of another mess.

I wasn't aware Bush or Obama were wanted for war crimes by the UN...your facts please?

Yes, he is an American, but a traitor and should be quickly tried by the military, not the WH.....and then quickly executed for his crimes.

You're going to need a few machine guns if you're going to be shooting deserters, it's estimated that some 40,000 American troops deserted their posts during the Iraq war, and some 50,000 deserted during the Vietnam war.

Last time I checked Desertion stopped being punishable by death sometime after the First World War, heck, even during the First World War we only shot about 306, out of the 20,000 we convicted. Germany in the Second World War shot about 15,000, and the Soviets shot about 158,000...so I suppose there's good precedence there for you. :yeah: Never mind that the US only executed one soldier for desertion in the whole Second World War, the Axis and Comintern obviously had the better solution. Never mind that the US hasn't executed a man for desertion in seventy years, and that he was the only man to be executed since the Civil war. :har:

[Armistead]

You're going to need a few machine guns if you're going to be shooting deserters, it's estimated that some 40,000 American troops deserted their posts during the Iraq war, and some 50,000 deserted during the Vietnam war.

Last time I checked Desertion stopped being punishable by death sometime after the First World War, heck, even during the First World War we only shot about 306, out of the 20,000 we convicted. Germany in the Second World War shot about 15,000, and the Soviets shot about 158,000...so I suppose there's good precedence there for you. :yeah: Never mind that the US only executed one soldier for desertion in the whole Second World War, the Axis and Comintern obviously had the better solution. Never mind that the US hasn't executed a man for desertion in seventy years, and that he was the only man to be executed since the Civil war. :har:

Obviously shooting his was sarcasm, but I would....because men died for his desertion. I hope they at least stick his cowardly butt in prison for the rest of his life. I don't think it matters what political heat the Obama admin can bring, the army will have to investigate now..

[Oberon]

the army will have to investigate now..

Bingo, and if he is charged with desertion he will face a custodial sentence, or dishonorable discharge. Sending death threats to his father and lynching him in the media and social networks is both unproductive and quite honestly an insult to the entire justice system.

It strikes me that this is basically just being used as another stick to beat Obama with, just as it would be if Bergdahl was still sitting in his Taliban prison, people would be beating Obama with the 'Why haven't you gotten him released' 'Bring our boy back home' stick, exactly as I have already demonstrated in this thread with the screenshot from someones twitter account. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, but that's exactly what being a US President is all about. :yep:

[Tribesman]

Obviously shooting his was sarcasm, but I would....because men died for his desertion.
Really?
I thought men died because some idiots tried to do Afghanistan on the cheap, then diverted resources off on an adventure of silly buggery elsewhere causing the six month window of opertunity to turn into a 13 year waste of time money and lives.
Are you willing to shoot those people too?
Or does your outrage at lost lives only come into play if Obama can somehow be blamed?

[Mr Quatro]

Wait and see, he will be found a deserter and traitor that an American president traded 5 of our worse enemy while we're still in war. I'll trust those that served with him and knew him over the spin going on now to get Obama out of another mess.

I wasn't aware Bush or Obama were wanted for war crimes by the UN...your facts please?

Yes, he is an American, but a traitor and should be quickly tried by the military, not the WH.....and then quickly executed for his crimes.

Who appointed you judge?

You don't shoot loony bins ... the poor guy is a loony bin :yep:

[Bilge_Rat]

I think GOP strategist Frank Luntz put it best:

Pro Tip: Attacking the actions that led to the release of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl is a surefire way to lose in 2014.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2014/06/02/why_republicans_are_crying_foul_about_the_release_ of_a_pow.html


This is politics pure and simple.

[Dread Knot]

A point to consider: it isn't that unusual for the occasional sailor, soldier, marine, or airman to hit one of those low points in life, on a deployment, where something sets him (or her) off and there is a rapid transition to "screw this, and anything to do with this" mode. I recall when the ex- NFL player Pat Tillman was the model of the fearless square-jawed, All-American hero. Now it turns out he expressed strong disillusionment with the war in the weeks before his death, too. (knowing that now, would we rescue him if captured?)

With the number of folks who deployed multiple times to Iraq and Afghanistan, and the total number we have sent into those cauldrons of stress, it comes as no surprise to me that a few folks lose it. (See also that guy who "lost it" by going out and shooting sixteen Afghan civilians.)

Get whomever back into the system, and figure it out from there. It is long past time for the confinees in Gitmo to be of some use. If that is as trade bait for Berghdal, so be it.

[Wolferz]

Turn them loose with trackers installed and it becomes a simple task to trace them back to their holes for execution via UAV carried hellfire missiles. Whether Bergdahl walked away from his post and got captured or not is not a matter for the news media and Armistead or anyone else to investigate or decide. It's in the hands of the military JAG and the UCMJ.

Try not to be Lemmings y'all. The talking heads lie like a dog on a rug.:roll:

If they really wanted to solve the Gitmo problem...they would only need to turn all those prisoners loose on the the island of Cuba and Castro and his ilk would take care of it.

[Bilge_Rat]

It should also be remembered that when President Obama signed this law, he also issued what is called a "signing statement" where he informed congress that he felt the law was unconstitutional and was an infringement on the powers of the Executive Branch.

In effect, he was saying that "yes it is a law, but I am not bound by it due to separation of powers". Unfortunately, signing statements have become common (too common) in the past 40 years. :down:

On that, the President is on fairly solid legal grounds. The 30 day notification period is almost certainly an unconstitutional infringement of the President's power as commander-in-chief of all U.S. forces and his power to grant pardons.

[Mr Quatro]

I think GOP strategist Frank Luntz put it best:


Quote:
Pro Tip: Attacking the actions that led to the release of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl is a surefire way to lose in 2014.


OT: This would make a good thread on it's own merit ... I hope someone starts one. Not me ... I have work to do :o

[Jimbuna]

I'd much rather any threads relating to Bowe Bergdahl be kept together, otherwise we run the risk of going down the route of gun threads.

[Mr Quatro]

I'd much rather any threads relating to Bowe Bergdahl be kept together, otherwise we run the risk of going down the route of gun threads.

Sorry Jim :oops: I agree I was more interested in the point Bilge Rat was trying to make:


a surefire way to lose in 2014

[Jimbuna]

Sorry Jim :oops: I agree I was more interested in the point Bilge Rat was trying to make:

No problem at all and certainly no apology needed...I am always open to suggestions.

[Bilge_Rat]

well the GOP is all over the Bergdahl story because they think it will score them points for the mid terms. According to Frank Luntz anyway, he thinks it will backfire. We will see in November.

It is obvious Washington is now in full campaign mode. Obama was in Europe last week trying to shore up a united response to Russian aggression in Ukraine and what was the only topic on everyone's lips? Bergdahl. Who even heard or cared about Bergdahl before he was exchanged?

Putin must be laughing himself silly. He has a free ride until november 5th, 2014.

[vanjast]

You lot shouldn't have been there in the first place...
You suckers have been 'rooted' by your own administration.. like Vietnam, into a 'war' you cannot win.. because you're going about it the wrong way :03:

Why you get so patriotic about this BS is beyond me... Take the guy back home to his family.
:up:

[Armistead]

Bingo, and if he is charged with desertion he will face a custodial sentence, or dishonorable discharge. Sending death threats to his father and lynching him in the media and social networks is both unproductive and quite honestly an insult to the entire justice system.

It strikes me that this is basically just being used as another stick to beat Obama with, just as it would be if Bergdahl was still sitting in his Taliban prison, people would be beating Obama with the 'Why haven't you gotten him released' 'Bring our boy back home' stick, exactly as I have already demonstrated in this thread with the screenshot from someones twitter account. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, but that's exactly what being a US President is all about. :yep:

I don't think anyone was beating Obama about getting Berg free, he's been known about and numerous deals considered and previously refused by Obama, including one to let 3 go. For whatever the push this time seems to be his health, although he looked rather healthy on camera.. Obvious some politics behind doing this now we may know or never about...

[Bilge_Rat]

purely on the legal aspects, Michael Mukasey, Attorney General under President Bush agrees the law is unconstitutional:


“He broke the law, but I believe that the law itself is unconstitutional,” Mukasey said on “Fox News Sunday.” “Article II [of the Constitution] makes him the commander in chief of the armed forces. These people were in the custody of the armed forces.”


http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-live/2014/06/mukasey-guantanamo-notification-unconstitutional-189960.html?hp=l22

The last and only U.S. soldier executed for desertion since 1865 was private Edward Slovik in 1945.

Although over 21,000 American soldiers were given varying sentences for desertion during World War II, including 49 death sentences, Slovik's was the only death sentence that was actually carried out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Slovik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUKEupQbqj8

[Oberon]

I don't think anyone was beating Obama about getting Berg free, he's been known about and numerous deals considered and previously refused by Obama, including one to let 3 go. For whatever the push this time seems to be his health, although he looked rather healthy on camera.. Obvious some politics behind doing this now we may know or never about...

Then where does Iran-Contra fall in this state of affairs? One could argue that it was a far greater scandal than this, and a bigger abuse of office by Reagan and his team.

A cautionary saying about stones and glass houses does come to mind when I read of Republican outrage... :hmmm:

[Armistead]

Then where does Iran-Contra fall in this state of affairs? One could argue that it was a far greater scandal than this, and a bigger abuse of office by Reagan and his team.

A cautionary saying about stones and glass houses does come to mind when I read of Republican outrage... :hmmm:

We know both sides are thinking politcal first. One, I don't confuse GOP members in congress with Fox news, although some are out there. Not to forget, several Dems have bashed Obama as well, including liberal Feinstein. No doubt it's the wrong approach. I honestly think there's clear evidence that the military and Obama knew about Berg deserting and probably why nothing was done in 5 years, even though there were better deals for us in times past. So we wait 5 years and do a much worse deal....I think there's a politically motivated reason behind this now.

Personally, I would rather these 5 responsible for 1000's of innocent lives face trial in the US or {cough cough} UN. To release these tyrants back on Afghanistan will prove to be a costly mistake.

As long as the army does an investigation I would be happy. But I think we all know Dem politics will seek to protect themselves and screw the process up...

[Tribesman]

Personally, I would rather these 5 responsible for 1000's of innocent lives face trial in the US or {cough cough} UN. To release these tyrants back on Afghanistan will prove to be a costly mistake.

A trial in the US was pretty much out of the question.
The methods used during detention coupled with US efforts to ensure US people don't end up in the Hague too rule out the UN route.
That leaves three possible routes, or 4 if you include summary execution of prisoners without trial.
1. keep them in prison without trial for the rest of their lives.
2. pay another country a large amount of money to accept them for release(the usual method)
3. swap them for a US POW.

#3 seems the best deal on price.
The costly mistake was the manner of their imprisonment and the shortsighted attempts at ignoring all the relevant laws.

[August]

it's estimated that some 40,000 American troops deserted their posts during the Iraq war, and some 50,000 deserted during the Vietnam war.

Estimated by who? That figure has no basis in reality.

[HunterICX]

Since 2000, about 40,000 troops from all branches of the military have deserted, the Pentagon says

I guess it does :hmm2:

[Oberon]

Estimated by who? That figure has no basis in reality.

According to the Pentagon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon), more than 5,500 military personnel deserted in 2003–2004, following the Iraq invasion and occupation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq).[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion#cite_note-CBS2004-29) The number had reached about 8,000 by the first quarter of 2006.[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion#cite_note-Nicholas2006-30) Another report stated that since 2000, about 40,000 troops from all branches of the military have deserted, also according to the Pentagon. More than half of these served in the US Army.[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion#cite_note-truthout2006-31) Almost all of these soldiers deserted within the USA. There has only been one reported case of a desertion in Iraq. The Army, Navy, and Air Force reported 7,978 desertions in 2001, compared with 3,456 in 2005. The Marine Corps showed 1,603 Marines in desertion status in 2001. That had declined to 148 by 2005.[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion#cite_note-Nicholas2006-30)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion#Iraq_War

[Bilge_Rat]

According to the Pentagon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon), more than 5,500 military personnel deserted in 2003–2004, following the Iraq invasion and occupation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq).[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion#cite_note-CBS2004-29) The number had reached about 8,000 by the first quarter of 2006.[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion#cite_note-Nicholas2006-30) Another report stated that since 2000, about 40,000 troops from all branches of the military have deserted, also according to the Pentagon. More than half of these served in the US Army.[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion#cite_note-truthout2006-31) Almost all of these soldiers deserted within the USA. There has only been one reported case of a desertion in Iraq. The Army, Navy, and Air Force reported 7,978 desertions in 2001, compared with 3,456 in 2005. The Marine Corps showed 1,603 Marines in desertion status in 2001. That had declined to 148 by 2005.[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion#cite_note-Nicholas2006-30)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion#United_States

[Tribesman]

I guess it does :hmm2:

I'm afraid not
August is correct, Oberon stated "during the Iraq war".
Those figures would fit better if he wrote "during the Afghan war" but at both ends they fall partly outside the timeframe of the waste of time in Iraq.

[August]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion#Iraq_War

Beware of using Wiki, I seem to remember some Brit guy saying that. :)

If you look at the referenced sources to that wiki article it's just some civilian media articles, no actual Pentagon report to back them up is listed. What they're probably doing is lumping awol soldiers in with actual deserters to inflate the numbers, not unlikely given the politics of the time. Just look at the dates of the articles referenced. I don't think Armistead advocates executing every young GI who comes back a day or three late from a weekend pass.

[Tribesman]

Beware of using Wiki, I seem to remember some Brit guy saying that. :)

If you look at the referenced sources to that wiki article it's just some civilian media articles, no actual Pentagon report to back them up is listed. What they're probably doing is lumping awol soldiers in with actual deserters to inflate the numbers, not unlikely given the politics of the time. Just look at the dates of the articles referenced. I don't think Armistead advocates executing every young GI who comes back a day or three late from a weekend pass.
What you need to do before you make such claims is explore the links.
When you get to the DoD supplied figures you will note that it only includes those that are administratively categorised as deserters.
You will also find it explains the difference between deserters and AWOL, why the cut off date for that categorisation is used for administrative purposes and how the military justice system shifts the burden of proof at that cut off date for any future trial.

Seems quite comprehensive really.

Beware of Wiki without checking the links, but beware of writing off wiki and rubbishing the links without exploring all the links.:know:

[Wolferz]

http://news.msn.com/us/bergdahl-was-discharged-from-the-coast-guard-for-psychological-reasons-before-he-joined-the-army-1

It seems that Sgt Bergdahl had problems even before he joined the army and at the time, the recruitment standards set the bar pretty low.:hmmm:

[Oberon]

Well, you need the manpower, and if people aren't joining up like they used to then you need to set the bar lower to get those that do who would otherwise be turned away.

Also, you guys make the mistake of hiring people instead of T-800s, people sometimes don't work as they're supposed to.

[Wolferz]

:DWell, you need the manpower, and if people aren't joining up like they used to then you need to set the bar lower to get those that do who would otherwise be turned away.

Also, you guys make the mistake of hiring people instead of T-800s, people sometimes don't work as they're supposed to.



http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/Wolferz_2007/terminator_10.jpg

I'll be back.

[Tribesman]

I'll be back.
Yes, but how many Taliban will have to be exchanged to bring you back?

[Oberon]

Yes, but how many Taliban will have to be exchanged to bring you back?

Where is Mohammad Con-al-din?

[TarJak]

Yes, but how many Taliban will have to be exchanged to bring you back?Only the one...

Where is Mohammad Con-al-din?

:har:

[Armistead]

Be interesting to see what all these letters say as Berg explains to family why he deserted his post...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/06/12/bergdahl-letters-afghanistan/10380147/

Anyway, I'm sure he'll be found mentally unfit now in the hospital so he can be excused and taken out of the public light.

[Platapus]

"The Obama administration has dismissed the criticism, saying there was concern for Bergdahl's declining health. And POW swaps are standard practice as wars wind down, Obama has said."

So now, when it is convenient, all of a sudden these prisoners are now POWs?

[Flamebatter90]

I'd be careful around this guy. He says something, 2 others say it didnt happen.

1. He is said to have left the base without authorization
2. He says that he and his patrol were ambushed, I think it was 14th of July
3. No patrols were scheduled for that day
4. Search launches
5. 6 US soldiers are killed direcle or indirectly due to the ops to find Berghdahl.

Let me play the devil's advogate and say: maybe he has switched sides? He hated the war, he didn't believe in the uniform.

We are talking about the Taliban, how many prisoners have they kept for 5 years? Usually it's a shot in the back of the head, or worse, throat cut.

[Oberon]

It's possible.

My personal take on it is this. He joined up trying to find a place for himself and didn't find it. He'd already bounced out of the USCG, but made it through Basic on the US Army. He was disillusioned by service in Afghanistan and, yeah, he probably did have some sympathies with the Afghanis, not the Taliban but those who have spent the last decade being bombed into oblivion. Finally he has had enough of being in the US military and decides to walk to Pakistan and onward perhaps to India.
Of course, dumb idea because that's through the most Taliban/Al'Qaeda infested region in the whole of Afghanistan and surprise surprise he gets captured by the Taliban, who rather than treat him fairly as a someone who sympathises with the plight of the Afghan people, they kick him into a cage and do all the fun Taliban things with him.

The guy is pretty broken, he was already damaged when he went to Afghanistan, now he's broken. He'll probably be in therapy for the next decade, between military service, imprisonment and trial (and execution) by media.

[Flamebatter90]

The guy is pretty broken, he was already damaged when he went to Afghanistan, now he's broken.
And that's what worries me. Reading his last emails to his parents, he didn't believe in the war nor the uniform anymore. He also lies how he got captured. Everyone in his base says he left, no patrol, he just left.

I am glad he is back home.... sort of. He's clean, it'd be a political suicide to charge him for desertion at this point. BUT, what about the 5 terrorists that went free? High-risk terrorists to be specific.

US has been known for not negotiating with terrorists for quite some time.
Now, one PRIVATE is exchanged for 5 leaders?
That might be noble, but it's damn stupid too.
EDIT: Honestly, I think Bergdahl just gets forgotten.

[Dread Knot]

Now, one PRIVATE is exchanged for 5 leaders? That might be noble, but it's damn stupid too.


It makes a dandy advertising jingle. At Gitmo, you Git More.

[Oberon]

And that's what worries me. Reading his last emails to his parents, he didn't believe in the war nor the uniform anymore. He also lies how he got captured. Everyone in his base says he left, no patrol, he just left.

I am glad he is back home.... sort of. He's clean, it'd be a political suicide to charge him for desertion at this point. BUT, what about the 5 terrorists that went free? High-risk terrorists to be specific.

US has been known for not negotiating with terrorists for quite some time.
Now, one PRIVATE is exchanged for 5 leaders?
That might be noble, but it's damn stupid too.
EDIT: Honestly, I think Bergdahl just gets forgotten.

Yeah, his lying is him trying to recover some dignity before he is torn apart by the US press, somewhat naive of him to think that it wouldn't be checked up on, but he strikes me as a naive guy.
In regards to the men who were let go, they will likely be lying low for quite a while, but at any time after that there's an AGM-114 with their name on it ready to drop from a drone.

In regards to the non-negotiation, I'd say that it was definitely an attempt by Obama to work on the 'we bring our boys home' image, the whole "We don't leave our guys behind" motto of the US military, and either he hoped the desertion subject wouldn't come up or get out, or gambled that the media would focus on the fact that an American had been brought back from the Taliban. Probably more the former than the latter, Obama should know how determined elements of the US media are to villify him, so he'd be stupid to think that they'd pass up that chance.

But yes, forgetting about Bergdahl is the best bet, let him go through his court martial, discharge and therapy in peace. :yep:

[Tribesman]

"The Obama administration has dismissed the criticism, saying there was concern for Bergdahl's declining health. And POW swaps are standard practice as wars wind down, Obama has said."

So now, when it is convenient, all of a sudden these prisoners are now POWs?
Not all of a sudden. A long time ago the supreme ruled that there must be coverage.
Its a basic thing that prisoners cannot have indeterminate status, the default in this is POW status.
The confusion arises from the former administrations attempt to skirt the legal issues and simply make up a status of its own on a whim.

[Wolferz]

A great many folks have lost sight of the meaning of the abbreviation... P.O.W. Prisoner Of War. I 've yet to see any official declaration of war against a sovereign enemy in the country of Afghanistan.
Bergdahl decided to go sight seeing and got kidnapped, not captured.:hmmm:

Yeah, I know. Semantics.:yep:

[Tribesman]

A great many folks have lost sight of the meaning of the abbreviation... P.O.W. Prisoner Of War. I 've yet to see any official declaration of war against a sovereign enemy in the country of Afghanistan.
That is because a declaration of war is not needed under US law to go to war.
There are three options available in the lets go to war act. The US used two of them. Though it is mainly the second of the three in regards to Afghanistan as far as the formal legislation of the war goes.
Though the earlier declaration on 18th Sept 2001 pretty much declares war on anyone and everyone anywhere the President shall choose.

So its a war which means prisoners from the war are prisoners of war unless they fit into one of the other recognised categories.
So its not that a great many people have lost sight, its just that some people choose not to see and then claim others have lost sight.

[Onkel Neal]

Not turning out too well for Obama :O:

Everything The White House Told You About Bowe Bergdahl Was Wrong (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/25/everything-the-white-house-told-you-about-bowe-bergdahl-was-wrong.html)

[nikimcbee]

I hope that the outcome will be good, and that this was a strength showing up in the U.S.


Note: 23 June 2013 Last updated at 15:12 GMT

Nope. Time to pay the piper.

[Oberon]

http://rs1img.memecdn.com/thanks-obama_o_2543775.jpg

[Platapus]

A great many folks have lost sight of the meaning of the abbreviation... P.O.W. Prisoner Of War. I 've yet to see any official declaration of war against a sovereign enemy in the country of Afghanistan.
Bergdahl decided to go sight seeing and got kidnapped, not captured.:hmmm:

Yeah, I know. Semantics.:yep:

A very important semantic. The legal state of war is like being pregnant. Either you are or you are not. There is not almost or kinda.

[Wolferz]

If Bowe thinks the Taliban were rough on him...:timeout:

Wait until he gets to Leavenworth.:o

You can't fix stupid but you can sure make it suffer

[fred8615]

If Bowe thinks the Taliban were rough on him...:timeout:

Wait until he gets to Leavenworth.:o

You can't fix stupid but you can sure make it suffer

I predict he won't serve a day in prison if he's convicted. They'll say his five years "captivity" by the Taliban plus a prison term is too harsh. He'll get a dishonorable discharge, etc., but no jail.

And while I think this highly, highly unlikely, there is a little tiny voice in my head suggesting Obama pardons him. Just to make all this go away. He'll take heat for it, but he's already survived swapping five terrorists for this twerp. He can survive pardoning him too. But, as I said, I don't think he'll end up doing it.

[Wolferz]

Time will tell, Fred.
Obama could allow the UCMJ to do its thing and wait until next January and pardon the guy before he exits the oval office but, by then the damage will be done. Having a DD on your DD 214 isn't good for job prospects.:-?