Homicidal Nutter of the Day

[Onkel Neal]

It's getting to be a daily occurrence, so why not just have a thread that lists each one?

Georgia courthouse attacker prepared to inflict mayhem
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/06/justice/georgia-courthouse-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Wow, grenades? I didn't know you could get those.

In this case, only one deputy was wounded, bad guy dead.

[Jimbuna]

As Forsyth County Sheriff Duane Piper said, "He came prepared to do this."

Body armor, a gas mask, an assault rifle, an assortment of grenades, flexible handcuffs....yep, you could say that :)

[Sailor Steve]

...bad guy dead.
On behalf of bad guys everywhere, I would like to protest this comparison. Real bad guys aren't this crazy. Well, we are, but at least we have enough self-respect to pretend we aren't. :O:

[Oberon]

Homicidal nutter thread...not actually a bad idea, since they do seem to be part of the staple diet at the moment.:hmmm:

[Kaptlt.Endrass]

On behalf of bad guys everywhere, I would like to protest this comparison. Real bad guys aren't this crazy. Well, we are, but at least we have enough self-respect to pretend we aren't. :O:

I'M NOT ALONE! YIPPIE KY AY! ( Runs off preaching the good news to confused townsfolk)

[Wolferz]

Dead dead deadski moron. :roll:

As it should be with premeditated nuttery.

[Stealhead]

Homicidal nutter thread...not actually a bad idea, since they do seem to be part of the staple diet at the moment.:hmmm:


They always have been surely since the dawn of time people have gone Mau Mau with an axe or what ever weapon they had at hand and went around splitting heads. We just hear about it more easily these days where as long ago it probably was not known about beyond the next valley.

If anything the attention such actions get likely does not help things as some people see "going off" as a way to get their fifteen minutes of fame.

All part of the human condition I recon.

[Wolferz]

They always have been surely since the dawn of time people have gone Mau Mau with an axe or what ever weapon they had at hand and went around splitting heads. We just hear about it more easily these days where as long ago it probably was not known about beyond the next valley.

If anything the attention such actions get likely does not help things as some people see "going off" as a way to get their fifteen minutes of fame.

All part of the human condition I recon.

AKA suicide by cop. When life grinds you so far into the mud that all you want to do is end the misery, going on a shooting rampage will definitely get you the right attention to accomplish your goal. It really motivates the law dogs to put one between your eyes.:88)

You can't fix crazy but you can put it down like a rabid dog.:dead:

[Red October1984]

Body armor, a gas mask, an assault rifle, an assortment of grenades, flexible handcuffs....yep, you could say that :)

http://images.flickdirect.com/movies/the-other-guys/the-other-guys_1.jpg

"Looks like they've been playing Grand Theft Auto too..."

[Stealhead]

AKA suicide by cop. When life grinds you so far into the mud that all you want to do is end the misery, going on a shooting rampage will definitely get you the right attention to accomplish your goal. It really motivates the law dogs to put one between your eyes.:88)

You can't fix crazy but you can put it down like a rabid dog.:dead:

Not necessarily. Not every spree killer goes down some it seems want to get captured others kill themselves.I do not see every spree killer as having been pushed to the edge and then snapping.It could be any number of things my point basically is that such things are a part of human nature and will never go away nor be avoidable.

I do not think that every spree killer is certifiably mentally ill either some are just people that have no problem with killing and know that it is morally wrong they just choose to kill.

I have no idea the statics might be but I have a feeling that far more people who wish to commit suicide do so successfully on their own with out physically harming another person in the process I'd say that the spree killer who off themselves when they are finished would be the smallest portion of the "committed suicide this year" whole.

[Wolferz]

Not necessarily. Not every spree killer goes down some it seems want to get captured others kill themselves.I do not see every spree killer as having been pushed to the edge and then snapping.It could be any number of things my point basically is that such things are a part of human nature and will never go away nor be avoidable.

I do not think that every spree killer is certifiably mentally ill either some are just people that have no problem with killing and know that it is morally wrong they just choose to kill.

I have no idea the statics might be but I have a feeling that far more people who wish to commit suicide do so successfully on their own with out physically harming another person in the process I'd say that the spree killer who off themselves when they are finished would be the smallest portion of the "committed suicide this year" whole.
True dat.:yep:
It's just the rabid ones who develop the extreme point of view of, "If I can't live I'll take a few with me.":-?

[Onkel Neal]

Double Nutter day
2 cops, bystander die in Las Vegas ambush

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140608/NATION/306080037#ixzz346z0js35

[Wolferz]

Double Nutter day
2 cops, bystander die in Las Vegas ambush

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140608/NATION/306080037#ixzz346z0js35

Detroit news? They've really expanded their area of news coverage if it includes Las Vegas.:haha: Must've pulled the story off the wire to make sure it gets "national" attention to promote the agenda for disarming the population.:shifty:

[Wolferz]

Trap, trap, trap until the cage is full.
Another fugitive caught and sentenced to a life in a federal cage.
http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/utah-mountain-man-gets-10-1-2-years-in-prison
At least he didn't kill anybody.:yep: Though he did take pot shots at the authorities when they were trying to apprehend him.:-?

[Mr Quatro]

It's getting to be a daily occurrence, so why not just have a thread that lists each one?

Georgia courthouse attacker prepared to inflict mayhem
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/06/justice/georgia-courthouse-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Wow, grenades? I didn't know you could get those.

In this case, only one deputy was wounded, bad guy dead.

You can purchase hand grenades right there in Galveston, Texas I forget which store, but they sell them empty of course and then you just put the powder in.

The two policeman in Las Vegas weren't so lucky though, uh?

I fear this really is going to be a war right here in America ... sad :oops:

[mapuc]

Here are some more sad news to all you Americans

Get use to it and get use to it on daily basis and sometimes several times a day

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

Looks like the two nut jobs in Vegas were white supremacist:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/las-vegas-cop-killers-hated-government-left-swastika-body-n126666 (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/las-vegas-cop-killers-hated-government-left-swastika-body-n126666)


The duo left calling cards of their world view on the bodies of the slain cops: a
"Don't Tread on Me" flag, a note that read "The revolution is beginning" and a swastika (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/two-cops-three-others-killed-las-vegas-shooting-spree-n125766) meant to equate police with the Nazis, McMahill said.

[Tribesman]

Looks like the two nut jobs in Vegas were white supremacist:

Yep, a couple of "patriots" who didn't want to be sent to fema re education camps for possessing guns after being caught breaking the law.
Its nice to see their mentor calling these murders a US government black flag operation.
I wonder if Alex Jones could be pulled in for conspiracy or incitement in relation to his disciples actions?

[Admiral Halsey]

.....

[vanjast]

Over here our police kill people 'striking for more pay', en mass.

The US has a long way to go yet.. :D

[P_Funk]

You can purchase hand grenades right there in Galveston, Texas I forget which store, but they sell them empty of course and then you just put the powder in.

Ain't freedom great? :doh:

[Wolferz]

Ain't freedom great? :doh:

It's only fair when you think about the SWAT teams tossing flash/bangs into an occupied playpen while bum rushing a house to serve an arrest warrant.:timeout: You can't be too careful with a possibly armed baby I guess.:-?
I wonder if they've ever tried calling and ordering the wanted criminal to step outside and surrender? Nope, they have to be all macho and use the ambush tactic with no regard for any of the innocent folk who might be present.
Sometimes the cops are nutters too.:doh:

Can you say oppression by excessive force? :stare:

[Dread Knot]

Yep, a couple of "patriots" who didn't want to be sent to fema re education camps for possessing guns after being caught breaking the law.
Its nice to see their mentor calling these murders a US government black flag operation.

Given that these two deranged morons were publically big fans of Alex Jones, is why Jones has to push the "false flag" story every time these events occur to distance himself and lay blame on the government. Otherwise, he has to face the fact that his conspiracy theory con game shtick has gone too far and actually gotten people killed.
　
But lately it's degenerated into a nasty positive feedback loop. Time and time again these people harp on how anytime anybody in the US ever shoots someone else it's a "false flag event", to enact harsh gun control laws and that the fine citizenry needs to "stand up" to the tyrannical usurpers; but anytime one of them does take the initiative, it's just called another false flag by the rest. (that citizens need to stand up to the government over). Around and around.

I wonder if Alex Jones could be pulled in for conspiracy or incitement in relation to his disciples actions? That's a good question. The First Amendment doesn't protect Alex Jones from being held accountable for what he has said. That accountability may not have to be in the criminal sense. He might be vulnerable to redress under the law of torts. I do wonder if the victims and their families in this case might have cause to sue Jones under some form of reckless endangerment or negligence.

[Oberon]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Bert2.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BptnQuiIMAIbtcx.jpg

[Dread Knot]

Sounds like today's dose of the madness is under way....

http://koin.com/2014/06/10/shots-fired-at-troutdales-reynolds-high-school/

Shooting reported at Reynolds High School near Troutdale, Oregon.

http://www.jimandnancyforest.com/wp-content/uploads/2005/04/Pogo.jpg

[nikimcbee]

Shooting in a Portland school. I'll wait for the press frenzy to die down.:shifty:

[mapuc]

As I told Steve in an another thread.

This is an all American problem and I do hope you will find a solution that both part can say yes to.(from my memory)

because you have to find some kind of solution or this will escalate out of controll and as I wrote before if you don't then

Get use to it....

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

As I told Steve in an another thread.

This is an all American problem and I do hope you will find a solution that both part can say yes to.(from my memory)

because you have to find some kind of solution or this will escalate out of controll and as I wrote before if you don't then

Get use to it....

Markus

We could handle a shooting almost everyday and it would still be one in a million. How about your country?

313.9 million (2012)
United States of America, Population

https://www.google.search.com (https://www.google.search.com)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population)

[mapuc]

We could handle a shooting almost everyday and it would still be one in a million. How about your country?

313.9 million (2012)
United States of America, Population

https://www.google.search.com (https://www.google.search.com)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population)

I live for the moment in Denmark but comes from Sweden

And yes we have a lot of shooting here to. Mostly its criminals against criminals.


Markus

[Tribesman]

We could handle a shooting almost everyday and it would still be one in a million. How about your country?

313.9 million (2012)
United States of America, Population

https://www.google.search.com (https://www.google.search.com)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population)
Pick a random number of a States cities and counties from various locations in the US. Pick any day to view their local media.
How many shootings can you come up with in any single day?
How does that leave your We could handle a shooting almost everyday ?

[TarJak]

We could handle a shooting almost everyday and it would still be one in a million. How about your country?

313.9 million (2012)
United States of America, Population

https://www.google.search.com (https://www.google.search.com)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population)
So it's some form of population control? That's the spirit! 'mericans :nope:

[Dread Knot]

So it's some form of population control? That's the spirit! 'mericans :nope:

:)

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33400000/The-Mummy-Movies-Fan-Art-the-mummy-movies-33401414-500-213.gif

[vienna]

A bit to think about on that "one a day" matter:


http://guns.periscopic.com/?year=2013


<O>

[Tribesman]

A bit to think about on that "one a day" matter:


http://guns.periscopic.com/?year=2013


<O>
What a coincidence, post #33 on the "one a day" claim comes up with the 33 a day figure.:yeah:

[Mr Quatro]

Pick a random number of a States cities and counties from various locations in the US. Pick any day to view their local media.
How many shootings can you come up with in any single day?
How does that leave your We could handle a shooting almost everyday ?

The OP shootings ... are the ones I'm talking about. Not just any shooting.

These wackos and nut jobs are one in a million ... something is driving them to these extremes.

Movies perhaps, we all watch movies, but some people think they are real and that mental unbalance causes the problem.

The media exposes these shootings for the hungry and thirsty for the shocking news and in turn causes even more mental instable people to imitate the ones on the news.

We will never have a perfect society ... that's all I meant by one in a million people will go to the extremes these news items have generated.

[Schöneboom]

Oy, Alex Jones never misses a chance to ramp up the paranoia:

http://www.infowars.com/cnn-says-liberty-movement-more-threatening-than-al-qaeda/

Taking this just a step further, it makes sense that Jones would be an agent provocateur himself!

(OMG, this post is #666! Lawd help me!) :o

[Oberon]

So it's some form of population control? That's the spirit! 'mericans :nope:

It's more constitutional than Obamacare! :O: :03:

[Wolferz]

It's more constitutional than Obamacare! :O: :03:
We'll never see the death toll figures for that obamanation.:dead:

[Dread Knot]

Oy, Alex Jones never misses a chance to ramp up the paranoia:

http://www.infowars.com/cnn-says-liberty-movement-more-threatening-than-al-qaeda/

Taking this just a step further, it makes sense that Jones would be an agent provocateur himself!

(OMG, this post is #666! Lawd help me!) :o

Jerad Miller's posts on Infowars depict an angry, down-on-his-luck man who blamed his woes—decaying teeth, lack of health insurance, and inability to find work—on the tyranny of government.

He's reported to have been a methamphetamine addict, but yeah, it's the government's fault his teeth were falling out. :88)

[Wolferz]

Jerad Miller's posts on Infowars depict an angry, down-on-his-luck man who blamed his woes—decaying teeth, lack of health insurance, and inability to find work—on the tyranny of government.

He's reported to have been a methamphetamine addict, but yeah, it's the government's fault his teeth were falling out. :88)

Nothing that a little Obamacare will "never" fix.:hmmm:

[Tribesman]

The OP shootings ... are the ones I'm talking about. Not just any shooting.

These wackos and nut jobs are one in a million ... something is driving them to these extremes.

Movies perhaps, we all watch movies, but some people think they are real and that mental unbalance causes the problem.

The media exposes these shootings for the hungry and thirsty for the shocking news and in turn causes even more mental instable people to imitate the ones on the news.

We will never have a perfect society ... that's all I meant by one in a million people will go to the extremes these news items have generated.
OK fair enough.
now talking about only mass shootings, taking into account population differences why does the US appear to have proportionally more than other western countries.
other countries have movies, other countries have sensationalist media, other countries have mentally unstable people. So why is America so different on this?
Its OK to say rather flippantly that its one in a million, but if other countries come up with 1 in 30 million, one in a hundred million or once in a blue moon when the wind comes from the north and south the geese fly backwards and Tuesday becomes Sunday it shows that your problem is vastly greater.
Is it more crazies, crazier crazies or crazies having too easy access to firearms?

[Wolferz]

OK fair enough.
now talking about only mass shootings, taking into account population differences why does the US appear to have proportionally more than other western countries.
other countries have movies, other countries have sensationalist media, other countries have mentally unstable people. So why is America so different on this?
Its OK to say rather flippantly that its one in a million, but if other countries come up with 1 in 30 million, one in a hundred million or once in a blue moon when the wind comes from the north and south the geese fly backwards and Tuesday becomes Sunday it shows that your problem is vastly greater.
Is it more crazies, crazier crazies or crazies having too easy access to firearms?

Maybe because we're swimming in the dirtiest gene pool on the planet?
That would explain it.
'merica:up:

[vienna]

Is it more crazies, crazier crazies or crazies having too easy access to firearms?

Hey, guns don't kill people -- people kill people...

...guns just make it easier...


<O>

[TarJak]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-10/texas-shooting-kills-six-people-gun-control-debate/5587800

[Jimbuna]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-10/texas-shooting-kills-six-people-gun-control-debate/5587800

Neal is in Texas atm :hmmm: :)

[Onkel Neal]

It's ok, I have cover. :)

You know, when they were building the Panama canal, workers were dying by the hundreds of Yellow fever and malaria. The brightest scientific minds at the time blamed it on miasma and vapors from waste and jungle mud. No one had an inkling it was being carried by a certain breed of mosquito. In the present, I wonder if there is some new phenomenon that is causing people to go crazy... something that has developed around the same timeline as these mass killings, like the saturation of radio waves from cell phones, wifi, etc. Yeah, I know, sounds crazy, but I cannot recall there being anything at all like this kind of killings when I was a boy.

[Aktungbby]

"Like political terrorism, the mass shooting is a crafted public spectacle, a theater of violence in which we are the unwitting yet compliant audience. The report describes the shooter’s obsessive interest in prior massacres. But among its many inconclusions is that it finds “no clear indication why Sandy Hook Elementary School was selected.” Perhaps the answer is too sickening to be sayable: the shooter deliberately chose a target that would maximize the horror and ensure his place in the pantheon of anti-heroes." Additionally: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/342150/what-motivates-mass-murderers-john-r-lott-jr (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/342150/what-motivates-mass-murderers-john-r-lott-jr) ..."the media should stop giving these killers the attention that they crave, especially by mentioning their names. Some countries, including Canada, put legal embargoes on information about pending criminal cases. Only after trials have occurred may the news media go into the case’s details. The main reason is to protect the jury from bias, but it also limits the notoriety the killers can accrue.":hmmm:

[Tribesman]

Would those media embargoes work?
Often the pathetic loser is dead so there is no trial to bias.
I think the the media should always preface the name of the loony with some choice derogatory names.
For example all media reports should read like ....
"The extremely stupid sexually inadequate idiot Dylan Klebold murdered some kids today because he was a spoilt brat with the intelligence of a retarded goldfish":hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

Would those media embargoes work?
Often the pathetic loser is dead so there is no trial to bias.
I think the the media should always preface the name of the loony with some choice derogatory names.
For example all media reports should read like ....
"The extremely stupid sexually inadequate idiot Dylan Klebold murdered some kids today because he was a spoilt brat with the intelligence of a retarded goldfish":hmmm:

I like that strategy!

Reminds me of years ago when I was poor and living in the ghetto section of Freeport, TX, a gang spraypainted their name on my garage-- chantajistas

I took a can of paint and added FAG chantajistas love big ****



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-10/texas-shooting-kills-six-people-gun-control-debate/5587800


Texas Shooter Kicked in Door, Tied Up Kids, Executed Them


Haskell tied up the teenager and other children and waited in the home until the rest of the family arrived back at the residence, the prosecutor said. When they returned, Haskell allegedly tied up two adults, identified as Katie and Stephen Stay, and four other children, all under the age of 13. He forced them all to lay facing the ground, the court was told.

While the family lay bound, Haskell asked the family members where his wife was, prosecutors said. When they said that they did not know where his wife was, Haskell allegedly shot every member of the family in the back of the head, execution style.

So, anyone wanna argue against the Death Penalty?

[Tribesman]

So, anyone wanna argue against the Death Penalty?
Yes, with the usual well tried and unopposable argument.
You can't offer guarantees.
You could list a thousand dickheads like that murderer, all would be trumped by a single example of a screw up.

[Onkel Neal]

"unopposable argument"

I guess that ends that discussion.

[Tribesman]

"unopposable argument"

I guess that ends that discussion.
It does, unless you can come up with a guarantee.
Since the guarantee would appear impossible you really have your work cut out if you want to try and oppose it.
Feel free to try though.

[u crank]

It does, unless you can come up with a guarantee.

There are no guarantees in the criminal justice system. Examples from my country: David Milgaard, Guy Paul Morin, Donald Marshall, Steven Truscott to name a few. Milgaard spent 23 years in prison before his conviction was overturned.

There are no guarantees in life. The surgeon operating on you might be having a bad day. The guy you are meeting on the highway might be falling asleep....and so on.

On the other hand crimes like the one mentioned in Texas are pretty clear cut. Eye witnesses, video tape evidence and confessions. What then?

Again, my country. Justin Bourque shoots 5 RCMP officers in an ambush, killing 3. Death penalty candidate: check yes. I wouldn't lose any sleep on that one.

Since the guarantee would appear impossible you really have your work cut out if you want to try and oppose it.

The guarantee is impossible to give but the solution is not unworkable.

[Tribesman]

There are no guarantees in the criminal justice system. Which is why such a final and permanent punishment cannot be applied if you are seeking justice.

On the other hand crimes like the one mentioned in Texas are pretty clear cut. Eye witnesses, video tape evidence and confessions. What then? Convictions usually are pretty clear cut, if they were not pretty clear cut there wouldn't be a conviction.

Again, my country. Justin Bourque shoots 5 RCMP officers in an ambush, killing 3. Death penalty candidate: check yes. I wouldn't lose any sleep on that one.
Like I said, you can provide thousands of examples, they mean nothing as they can all be trumped by a single example(and you already supplied 4 of those yourself)

The guarantee is impossible to give but the solution is not unworkable.
It is the attempts to make a workable solution which makes the dealth penalty so expensive.
Not wanting to put a price on justice of course, but a lot of capital punishment advocates do fixate on costs of imprisonment without realising the finances involved in executions..

[u crank]

Which is why such a final and permanent punishment cannot be applied if you are seeking justice.

Hmm.. if the criminal confesses, if there are multiple witnesses, video tape or DNA evidence, why not? I guess it depends on what kind of justice you are seeking. What is justice for the murder of innocents? Opinions vary obviously.

Convictions usually are pretty clear cut, if they were not pretty clear cut there wouldn't be a conviction.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Is a wrongful conviction a clear cut conviction every time? In the examples I mentioned, shoddy police work, witnesses that lied, prejudiced (Donald Marshall) and the unavailability of a real perpetrator led to the arrest and wrongful conviction of these men.

Like I said, you can provide thousands of examples, they mean nothing as they can all be trumped by a single example(and you already supplied 4 of those yourself)

There would be many cases that would not be part of a 'workable solution'. On the other hand, Justin Bourque's case is not one of them and will be easily proved in court.

Not wanting to put a price on justice of course, but a lot of capital punishment advocates do fixate on costs of imprisonment without realising the finances involved in executions..

That's not my argument. :smug:

[Tribesman]

Hmm.. if the criminal confesses, if there are multiple witnesses, video tape or DNA evidence, why not?
Multiple string to that bow.
Should be safe enough.
Yet any or all can be faulty.

I guess it depends on what kind of justice you are seeking.
Justice that can be put right when it is found to be not justice.
A posthumous pardon doesn't really cut it.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Is a wrongful conviction a clear cut conviction every time?
They were clear cut enough to be beyond reasonable doubt.

There would be many cases that would not be part of a 'workable solution'.
Yes, and each screw up was applied as part of a workable solution.
So how to differenciate?
So which part is part and which part is only "part"?
There is no shortage of cases where it definitely fitted the bill, until of course they later found out they was wrong.

[Nippelspanner]

So, anyone wanna argue against the Death Penalty?
Yep, still against it.
I'm too busy huggin' trees as to understand the importance of a state executing people to get "justice" (revenge) while at the same time they hold up the oh so holy bible that teaches...the opposite. (revenge=bad, don't do it!)

Besides a moral point, there are many others, even financial ones as well. (shouldn't matter when we talk peoples lives... oh the idealist I am...)

But... I did share my viewpoint about this in a dedicated thread about CP, IIRC and since those discussions end the same way as the guns: 'nay or yay' discussions where, mostly, some under-educated jerks come along and argue for it without even knowing the facts about CP but only repeating the same bs-propaganda they heard or maybe read... I'll just better not participate other than stating that CP is wrong, end of story. :yep:

[u crank]

Justice that can be put right when it is found to be not justice.
A posthumous pardon doesn't really cut it.

Milgaard was exonerated and given 10 million dollars in compensation. No one on this earth can give him back those 23 years.

They were clear cut enough to be beyond reasonable doubt.


I think you are making my argument for me. There are obviously cases where there is no doubt of guilt. Bourque is one of them.

Yes, and each screw up was applied as part of a workable solution.
So how to differenciate?

Glad I don't have to.:03:

There is no shortage of cases where it definitely fitted the bill, until of course they later found out they was wrong.

The cases that I mentioned were not like that. In fact they were the opposite.

[Tribesman]

Milgaard was exonerated and given 10 million dollars in compensation. No one on this earth can give him back those 23 years.

He was freed wasn't he, would he have had any free life at all if they had killed him?

I think you are making my argument for me. There are obviously cases where there is no doubt of guilt. Bourque is one of them.

So was Milgaard, he wouldn't have been convicted if they doubted he was guilty.
How long did you say he was in prison before the police and courts said ooops?

[u crank]

He was freed wasn't he, would he have had any free life at all if they had killed him?

That is without argument.

What would you take in exchange for 23 years in maximum security for a crime you didn't commit?

So was Milgaard, he wouldn't have been convicted if they doubted he was guilty.

There is not the slightest comparison between these two cases and that has been my point all along. Milgaard was convicted at age 16 with sketchy forensics and unreliable witnesses. He insisted in his innocence. It took his mothers' public confrontation with politicians to get some action. Justice Edward MacCallum, the Alberta judge who headed the inquiry that eventually freed him concluded that "The criminal justice system failed David Milgaard".

Justin Bourque on the other hand...

http://i.imgur.com/O2eaVcy.jpg

...that was shortly before 3 RCMP officers were murdered.

I was always opposed to CP but I think there could be instances where it would have merit. This guy will get life imprisonment and be fêted by fellow criminals as a 'cop killer'. Not much of a deterrent and could possibly lead to copy cat crimes. Like I said, I wouldn't lose any sleep.

[Tribesman]

There is not the slightest comparison between these two cases and that has been my point all along. But the point is you want to put faith in the criminal justice system to deliver only righteous verdicts of death, yet indroduce an example where they monumentally failed to do so.
What has changed in your view? Has the court system suddenly stopped screwing up?

Justin Bourque on the other hand...
Yes, but its never just this case or just that case is it.
Being sure about a single case isn't a good lead as they were sure about those cases where they screwed up too.
If they can go ahead because they are sure then what is to stop them when they are sure but wrong?

[u crank]

But the point is you want to put faith in the criminal justice system to deliver only righteous verdicts of death, yet indroduce an example where they monumentally failed to do so.

Clearly, I am not advocating the death penalty for every case in which someone was killed. And I think you realize that. I'm trying to make a distinction between two vastly different cases. I have very little faith in the criminal justice system, but unless there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll, Bourque is guilty. The evidence is over whelming and I'd say he pleads guilty with mental issues. He will spend the rest of his life in a concrete home and Canada will not bring back the death penalty. We're just to damn nice.:D

[Tribesman]

Clearly, I am not advocating the death penalty for every case in which someone was killed. And I think you realize that. I'm trying to make a distinction between two vastly different cases. I have very little faith in the criminal justice system, but unless there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll, Bourque is guilty. The evidence is over whelming and I'd say he pleads guilty with mental issues. He will spend the rest of his life in a concrete home and Canada will not bring back the death penalty. We're just to damn nice.:D
I know, what we have is a fundamental difference of approach.
You favour taking the risk on the occasional one where there is definite guilt.
I favour not taking the risk because you need to protect the innocent who definitely get found guilty.
So the question for your approach is how do you ensure that the innocent are excluded and it is only applied to those that are definitely guilty, after all those people who get wrongly convicted appeared to be definitely guilty in their trial.

[u crank]

So the question for your approach is how do you ensure that the innocent are excluded and it is only applied to those that are definitely guilty, after all those people who get wrongly convicted appeared to be definitely guilty in their trial.

Obviously there would have to be a different approach than the one in place now. It would have to apply to those cases where the convicted is beyond any shadow of doubt guilty. The aforementioned Justin Bourque is one. Another case here in Canada would be serial killer Clifford Olsen. He led the police to the bodies of his victims for cash. He also pleaded guilty. That's as definite as it gets. I guess some one would have to decide. I'm glad it won't be me.