The Manifesto of Elliot Rodger

[Onkel Neal]

I imagine psychiatrists will be studying this for years to come. I've skimmed through a few pages, it's amazing the mindset of this kid. Really twisted, spoiled and out of touch with reality.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/05/25/us/shooting-document.html?_r=0

One thing that struck me, the parents were not very involved with his life. He dropped all his college classes and they never knew.

[Flamebatter90]

EDITED: We should not give these guys any spotlights.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

It looks to me that this guy had really low self esteem in particular during middle school when he decided he had to start acting weird and annoying other people just to gain attention which of course lead to getting bullied but he thought that was ok because he was getting attention, he made assumptions as to how and why girls treated the way they did, then freaks out about not getting to play World of Warcraft for eight weeks, he developed a hate neurosis of any girl, anyone who was popular, anyone who was popular and had a girlfriend, and anyone who was a skateboarder.

Yes he was really out of touch with reality who lived in his own world, who decided to that getting negative attention was better then no attention at all, who believed that anything bad, unfair, or unjust that happened to him was the fault of someone else and never because of his own actions and that he just because he couldn't have sex he decided that no-one else should either, it like the whole villain thing "IF I CAN'T HAVE IT NO ONE CAN!!" mentality.. its just :nope:.

He said it himself " I felt no girl would ever have sex with me...And I developed extreme feelings of envy, hatred, and anger towards anyone who has a sex life. I saw them as the enemy. I felt condemned to a life of lonely celibacy while other boys where allowed to experience the pleasures of sex, all because girls didn't want me. I felt inferior and undesirable. This time, however I couldn't just stand by and accept such injustice anymore. I refused to continue hiding away from the world and forgetting all the insults it dealt me. I began to have fantasies of becoming every powerful and stopping everyone from having sex. I wanted to take their sex away from them, just like they took it away from me. I saw sex as an evil and barbaric act, all because I was unable to have it. This was the major turning point. My anger made me stronger inside. This was when I formed my ideas that sex should be outlawed. It was the only way to make the world a fair and just place. If I can't have it, I will destroy it. That's the conclusion I came to right then and there.
I spent more time studying the world, seeing the horrible, unfair place it is. I then had a revelation that just because I was condemned to suffer a life of loneliness and rejection doesn't mean that I am insignificant. I have a high level of intelligence. I see the world differently then anyone else. Because of all the injustices I went though and the worldview I developed because of them, I must be destined for greatness. I must be destined to change the world, to a shape that suits me!"

[Onkel Neal]

I don't know if it's just me but your spoiler tag isn't working.

[Jimbuna]

Nope, spoiler tag is kaput.

[HunterICX]

One thing that struck me, the parents were not very involved with his life. He dropped all his college classes and they never knew.

Odd, here in Spain the parents get notified by text message or e-mail if their kid is skipping/missing classes if the school hasn't been informed beforehand.

[Schroeder]

Odd, here in Spain the parents get notified by text message or e-mail if their kid is skipping/missing classes if the school hasn't been informed beforehand.
College isn't school. You have no obligation to go to college classes (at least over here) as you have no obligation to go to university classes.:know:

[HunterICX]

:hmm2:Ah I see, well I'm not familiar with the educational steps in the US so I thought College as High-school or something.
now you mention it 22-years old makes sense, still can you blame me for not paying much attention to his background?
(I know you have plenty of other reasons to blame me for)

[Armistead]

Seems one thing we know with all these shooting is the kids are mentally ill and usually on a lot mind altering prescription drugs.

[Dread Knot]

Considering his rather mysgonist outlook, I looked through the manifesto for instances where he was wronged by women. Oddly enough, there are none, unless we count a girl who pushed and yelled at him in childhood, because he first bumped into her. Other examples are of the type where a woman he smiled at didn't smile back, where a woman he said "hi" to, didn't respond. If female rejection was what he mostly blamed for his suffering, where is that rejection in his manifesto? Or did he expect women to flock to him, without any necessity to make an effort to meet them or talk to them?

I cannot say for certain. But the impression I got is that he never lifted a finger to approach women at all. Females were simply supposed to fling themselves at him, and when they did not, like some angry, neglected god he felt there had to be retribution. Seems he saw women as trophies and utilities that should have read his mind and put out.

If anything, the actual named women in his life were all overly kind to him, with the possible exception of his stepmother who tried to set limits to his behavior and assigned him chores such as cleaning which he felt were beneath him and belonged to the hired help.

While I definitely don't want to lay blame at his parents' feet, I wonder if here was another kid who had never had to deal with real, naturally occurring, age appropriate disappointment and thus failed to learned how to cope with the simple fact that we don't always get what we want. Seems like there is a growing population of frustrated narcissists out there, and one wonders if it might stem (partly) from always getting their way. Never having to go through life hearing the unfamiliar word, 'No.' This quote from his manifesto might be insight to the failure of healthy childhood maturation:

"At mother’s house, all of my needs were met with excellent precision, whereas at father’s house…"

Combine that with disgust at having to do chores he thought the 'help' should do, scream about a sense of entitlement worthy of the most stubborn, spoiled two-year-brat.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Nope, spoiler tag is kaput. Fixed it, no spoilers are good spoilers.:O:

[HW3]

We are going to see more of these in the U.S. with the liberals rules of no winners/losers in contests. Everyone gets a participation award. No special recognition of outstanding achievement in our schools. The "we can't have anyone get their feeling hurt" mentality does not prepare kids for the reality of life.

[Onkel Neal]

Considering his rather mysgonist outlook, I looked through the manifesto for instances where he was wronged by women. Oddly enough, there are none, unless we count a girl who pushed and yelled at him in childhood, because he first bumped into her. Other examples are of the type where a woman he smiled at didn't smile back, where a woman he said "hi" to, didn't respond. If female rejection was what he mostly blamed for his suffering, where is that rejection in his manifesto? Or did he expect women to flock to him, without any necessity to make an effort to meet them or talk to them?

I cannot say for certain. But the impression I got is that he never lifted a finger to approach women at all. Females were simply supposed to fling themselves at him, and when they did not, like some angry, neglected god he felt there had to be retribution. Seems he saw women as trophies and utilities that should have read his mind and put out.

If anything, the actual named women in his life were all overly kind to him, with the possible exception of his stepmother who tried to set limits to his behavior and assigned him chores such as cleaning which he felt were beneath him and belonged to the hired help.

While I definitely don't want to lay blame at his parents' feet, I wonder if here was another kid who had never had to deal with real, naturally occurring, age appropriate disappointment and thus failed to learned how to cope with the simple fact that we don't always get what we want. Seems like there is a growing population of frustrated narcissists out there, and one wonders if it might stem (partly) from always getting their way. Never having to go through life hearing the unfamiliar word, 'No.' This quote from his manifesto might be insight to the failure of healthy childhood maturation:

"At mother’s house, all of my needs were met with excellent precision, whereas at father’s house…"

Combine that with disgust at having to do chores he thought the 'help' should do, scream about a sense of entitlement worthy of the most stubborn, spoiled two-year-brat.


Yeah, exactly. It's not just his hatred of women that floors me. He has an unbelieveablely over-inflated opinion of himself...and he's always running to mamma for money, laptops, games, etc. Christ, that boy was a mess. I am in no position to judge, but all the instances in his life where he could not cope with daily things...that should have tripped some alarm bells.

On the day after, I almost got into a physical fight with Angel. The ugly pig kept acting as if girls
thought he was more attractive than me. Hah! I am a beautiful, magnificent gentleman and he is a low-
class, pig-faced thug. I had enough of his cocksure attitude, and I started to call him exactly what he was.
I tried to insult him as much as I could, telling him how superior I am to him, and saying that he was low-
class. He tried to attack me, but Ryan, being the more mellow of the two, held him back. A pity, I was
itching for a chance to hurt that obnoxious little animal. Though I suppose it was for the best… My life
was too important to risk doing anything rash.

In a panic, I immediately called my mother as soon as I could and told her of the dire situation. There
was no way I could live with those two imbeciles for the whole college year. They already ruined my
weekend. My mother agreed that I needed to get out of there, so I went to the leasing office and
explained to the manager everything that happened. He told me that there was another room available
for me to transfer to, but it would cost one hundred more dollars a month, because it was a larger two
bedroom unit and I would only be sharing it with one housemate, who would occupy the other room. I
called my mother and she gave me permission to go through with it. I signed the new lease, arranging to
transfer when the room became available in September. I would have to bear living with them for the
rest of the month until then.
To help get through the month, my mother let me come home every weekend until I was able to
transfer to the new apartment.

I would only stay in Santa Barbara during the weekdays, but on those
weekdays Angel and Ryan went out of their way to make my life a living hell. Every time they went out
they kept yelling to me how they’re going to sleep with hot girls that night. I knew they were just lying to
make me jealous. They always made fun of me for being a virgin. At night, they frequently made noise to
wake me up. I was literally being bullied, and it was truly horrific. I wanted to kill them both, but of
course I was smart enough not to go through with that desire. All I could do was remember every single
insult, so I can get revenge in a more efficient way in the future. That is who I am. I don’t act stupidly or
rashly. I remember every insult, and I wait until the time is right to strike. When that time comes, I will
crush all of my enemies in the most devastating and catastrophic way possible, and the results will be
beautiful.



I was glad that she moved to a better place, but I would have much rather she got married to a
wealthy man and moved into his mansion. Even though she was no longer seeing Jack, she dated other
men of high class. She had a special way of charming them. I continued to pester her to get married so that I can be part of an upper classfamily and enjoy allthe benefitsthat would come with that, butshe
always refused, claiming thatshe never wants to getmarried due to her unpleasant experiences with
my father. I told her that she should suffer through any negative aspects of marriage just for my sake,
because it would completely save my life, but she still refused.

[AVGWarhawk]

I stopped reading at the end of the first paragraph. I have little sympathy and caring for a guy who has troubles with the female gender. I have no desire to read why this individual acted out his drug induced fantasies because he simply could not get a nut. This is not newsworthy IMO. It just provides fuel for the next guy to make it much worse for a larger headliner of the day. I'm sorry for those that were involved all the same. At the end of the day there were innocent bystanders to a guy who if applied himself as much to finding a girls as he put forth on his manifesto he probably have 6 girlfriends. We see creating a world of a martyr was much more fun for him. It was no long about the girls anymore.

[Schöneboom]

IMO, when someone crosses the line into a mass murder spree, there's not much point in analyzing motives, upbringing, or a general social malaise. The man was psychotic.

Perhaps one day they'll figure out if it's a genetic brain anomaly or whatever. Being spoiled and misogynist is not sufficient explanation, just as I don't think Anders Breivik's extreme politics caused his actions. He just needed to kill people.

[Oberon]

Question: Before he became a mass murderer would anyone have read this manifesto? :hmmm:

[Dread Knot]

Question: Before he became a mass murderer would anyone have read this manifesto? :hmmm:

Given the length and turgid, self-obsessed nature of the text, probably not many.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Question: Before he became a mass murderer would anyone have read this manifesto? :hmmm: I would put that on the low side of maybe. If he had money or power people probably would but since he was pretty much off everyone's radar no-one would know it even existed until after the fact. The same question could be asked of the video he posted titled Retribution at least one day before the killing spree. How come no-one noticed it? That should of raised alarms too but it didn't until too late.

[Dread Knot]

The part where he suggests that most women should be put into concentration camps, to be starved to death, while he watches should have raised eyebrows. But there are worse rants on the internet. Some just glibly posted there by trolls to incite negative attention.

I am not a psychiatrist and couldn't give diagnoses on the basis of reading something of this sort. I cannot tell what the role of the bullying he faced at school might have been, and I cannot tell if anything could have been done to relieve his delusions. But the role of entitlement, the role of narcissism and the role of god-like thinking in the manifesto makes me fear that any ordinary therapy would likely not have worked. Something was either going to get in his path, or be denied him sooner or later, and set him off.

[Wolferz]

This lovelorn fellow just took a wrong turn...
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/Wolferz_2007/funny-road-signs-lovers.jpg

Blame it on Google for not updating their maps properly.

[Onkel Neal]

The part where he suggests that most women should be put into concentration camps, to be starved to death, while he watches should have raised eyebrows. But there are worse rants on the internet. Some just glibly posted there by trolls to incite negative attention.

I am not a psychiatrist and couldn't give diagnoses on the basis of reading something of this sort. I cannot tell what the role of the bullying he faced at school might have been, and I cannot tell if anything could have been done to relieve his delusions. But the role of entitlement, the role of narcissism and the role of god-like thinking in the manifesto makes me fear that any ordinary therapy would likely not have worked. Something was either going to get in his path, or be denied him sooner or later, and set him off.


Indeed. I wonder, is there any kind of treatment for people like him?

[AVGWarhawk]

Indeed. I wonder, is there any kind of treatment for people like him?

Straight jacket and rubber room come to mind.

[Stealhead]

Question: Before he became a mass murderer would anyone have read this manifesto? :hmmm:


Counter question: Is it odd that I have no desire to ever write a manifesto? I mean a crazy dude one some manifestos are big deals such as The Declaration of Independence.

[Oberon]

Counter question: Is it odd that I have no desire to ever write a manifesto? I mean a crazy dude one some manifestos are big deals such as The Declaration of Independence.

It's not likely that any of us will be in a position to need to write one, unless Neal takes Texas out of the union, which is possible I guess. :03:

[HunterICX]

and reforms the USA to USS? United States of Subsim?

[CaptainMattJ.]

Aspergers can be a crazy disease. Aspergers can potentially ruin the development of social skills, along with causing a complete lack of empathy. Elliot rodgers had extremely poor social skills which made him an outcast for most of his life. He suffered from severe depression and frequent thoughts of suicide. Eventually, most likely due to the depression and his Aspergers, his grief turned into envious hatred. He mentioned many times how he thought he was a superb and perfect gentleman, and how girls would be lucky to have him, marking where he begins blaming society for his inadequacies. It was probably a mix of all the wrong things coming together that made this kid go completely psycho. There seems to be a pattern: Aspergers and rough childhoods apparently dont mix well together.

[TarJak]

Aspergers or no, he was a misogynist and nothing much more. He deserves contempt and any rejection he got, though there's not much of that in his pile of poo scribblings.

No-one would have any sympathy/empathy with him if he was a terrorist. No-one should have any for a misogynistic killer. Glad he's dead an its a shame he had to take some good people with him to fulfil some self aggrandising fantasy.

[Stealhead]

I am no expert but when I take into consideration that there are many successful members of society who have Aspergers I find it unlikely that it in and of its self has any effect on the potential for a person to commit a violent act.

It is not even listed in the DSM-5 manual.

In my opinion spree killings are a culmination of many factors the media just has to play the if it bleeds it leads game and make up their reason why it happened when in truth they have no idea.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Aspergers or no, he was a misogynist and nothing much more. He deserves contempt and any rejection he got, though there's not much of that in his pile of poo scribblings.

No-one would have any sympathy/empathy with him if he was a terrorist. No-one should have any for a misogynistic killer. Glad he's dead an its a shame he had to take some good people with him to fulfil some self aggrandising fantasy.
I actually dont sympathize or empathize with him at all. I was saying how aspergers may (or may not) have played a role in the development of such a psychopath. It could have been why he was such an outcast, and why he would come to the conclusion that society was not only to blame for his misery, but should be punished for it. Its fascinating and horrifying to try and wrap your head around the mind of a psychopath, which is why i mentioned it. Ultimately, however, it doesnt really matter what he killed for or why, because hes still a monster.

[TarJak]

I actually dont sympathize or empathize with him at all. I was saying how aspergers may (or may not) have played a role in the development of such a psychopath. It could have been why he was such an outcast, and why he would come to the conclusion that society was not only to blame for his misery, but should be punished for it. Its fascinating and horrifying to try and wrap your head around the mind of a psychopath, which is why i mentioned it. Ultimately, however, it doesnt really matter what he killed for or why, because hes still a monster.

I wasn't suggesting that you did sympathise or empathise with him. Just chucking my 2 cents in the ring.