Dog on a leash

[raymond6751]

I almost got into a fight today with a biker over my dog not being on a leash. I've been walking dogs here since '92, in the woods beside our river. Everyone does, no leashes.

Then two summers back the city paved the path, put a yellow line down the center and the bikers showed up. Now they won't slow down, won't sound off, and give us trouble.

My dog was greeting two others on the left side of the path. This guy and his wife stopped their bikes and gave us impatient looks. I said, "you could go around, you know?" He says the dogs have to be on a leash and the next time he sees me, I'd better have it on leash."

You can imagine my reaction! He gets off his bike, so I get squared off. He takes out his phone and starts taking my picture!! It's to give it to the police, he says!! Off he rode. :down:

[razark]

Where's the "depends on the situation" or "sometimes" option?

[Aktungbby]

Well bottom line, is there a "leash law" or not?:hmmm: On the other hand a bicycle IS a vehical...and failure of a vehical to yield to a pedestrian is also a violation as one poor fellow found out when he rode into me in full kit while in a crosswalk, on the job, in San Francisco: so the game can go both ways. :hmmm:

[Wolferz]

Is it a law or ordinance that your dog be on a leash in that area?

Some people are either scared of dogs or they just don't like them enough to be friends with them. Maybe due to things like the thread showing the dog attacking a child and being chased off by Sylvester the cat or they've been bitten before because they are scared of dogs.

Still, it's funny how some people think they own where they happen to be recreating.

Some friends and I were playing Frisbee golf in a state park not far from here. The course runs through one of the picnic areas and we stopped to rest on a picnic table near other tables that a lady was prepping for a child's birthday party. She took exception to our resting there and came at us like an old hen, even though we assured her that we would move on shortly after one of our party completed a run to the restroom. She still insisted that we vacate immediately or risk an encounter with the rangers. The way she acted, you'd think we were crashing the party and stealing the cake and ice cream.:stare:


Just to be on the safe side, put your dog on a leash the next time you use the trail and the yuppie bikers won't have anything to complain about.:)
If they do, proceed to the parking area and deflate the tires on any car with a bike rack on it.:haha:

[Jimbuna]

Always check the council bye laws.

Don't have any woods nearby but we do have a green belt and the bye law states dogs should be under control whilst in a public area.

[Red October1984]

I'm the only one who voted...

Voted "Heck, No

[Betonov]

The first part of our regular walk he's on a leash. It's a more populated path.
The other half I let him loose. Depends on the path really.
Can't vote on this one.

About cyclists. They're arrogant little jerks (got a better word but it's NSFW)
But the road cyclists. The one's that have bicycles with the narrow wheels.
The mountain bikers and off hillers are a lot more cooled down. Like live and let live, you won't bother me for cycling down a path you're ascending and I won't be bothered by your dog.

Plus hitting a Labrador with a bike usually ends very badly for the bike. Those dogs are as tough as rocks :)

[swamprat69er]

Me too. I also have private woods.

[mapuc]

I don't know how the law is regarding leashed or not leashed when walking with your dog in a Forrest in the country where you live

In Sweden the dog has, even if its well trained, to be leashed.

Markus

[razark]

...the bye law states dogs should be under control whilst in a public area.
But does the law consider "under control" to mean "leash"? The exact phrasing could matter, because what one person considers under control does not necessarily match with another person.

[Jimbuna]

But does the law consider "under control" to mean "leash"? The exact phrasing could matter, because what one person considers under control does not necessarily match with another person.

Put it this way...if there is an incident and the dog wasn't leashed then it is highly likely the dog would be considered 'not' to be under control.

[Platapus]

In Virginia, there are leash laws. On state and country property, all dogs must be on leashes unless specifically allowed off lead. On Federal land (national parks and such) they are designated off lead areas.

If the woods are privately owned, it would depend on the owner of the land.

However, citing laws is all swell and such, but, if your dog bites (or even threatens to bite) someone, in many jurisdictions it is up to the dog owner to prove that the dog is not a threat.. That is not an easy thing to prove.

"your dog bared its fangs at my child" is a pretty tough thing to disprove. Tie, unfortunately, often goes against the dog.

I always keep my dogs on a leash when out and about. Not because of my dogs but because of other people and other dogs. There are a lot of people who are either afraid of dogs or simply don't like dogs. I really don't want to make myself nor my dog vulnerable so some complaint where I am at a legal disadvantage.

Not fair, not right. But a reality. :yep:

[Herr-Berbunch]

About cyclists. They're arrogant little jerks (got a better word but it's NSFW)
But the road cyclists. The one's that have bicycles with the narrow wheels.


Hey, that's me! :o

But you're unlikely to find anyone on a road bike anywhere other than smooth tarmac (as smooth as it can be when they don't fix the potholes until they're the size of a dinner plate), any trails through woods is highly likely to be avoided. And, whilst they can go slow (indeed they should if on a shared path), it does increase the fall-off-ability, particularly if you're using cleats (attach shoes to the pedals - not easy to get out quickly).

[fireftr18]

I didn't vote. It really depends on the circumstances. In general, if I know there will be a lot of people, or a high potential for the dog getting in trouble, then I leash. If not, then, no leash. Near my house is a public lake designated for water dog training. We had a lab, so we spent many hours there with her having fun swimming and chasing training floats. Around my house, no one cared, so she was on her own along with rest of the neighborhood dogs. :D

[Tribesman]

Well bottom line, is there a "leash law" or not?:hmmm: On the other hand a bicycle IS a vehical...and failure of a vehical to yield to a pedestrian is also a violation as one poor fellow found out when he rode into me in full kit while in a crosswalk, on the job, in San Francisco: so the game can go both ways. :hmmm:


That hits the core of the issue, a bicycle is a vehicle, a cycle lane is designated for use by vehicles.
It appears from the OP that this is a clearly marked cycle lane.
A road is used by vehicles, would the OP have his dog on the road without a leash?
No real difference is there?
So lets weigh it to see if the complaint makes sense
I was on the sidewalk , my dog went in the road to greet some dogs, people using the road objected that my dog was in their way, they could have gone round the dog, what is wrong with these drivers?:hmmm:
On balance the complaint seems to make no sense.
.

[Feuer Frei!]

Sounds like you got a grudge against cyclists rather than a possible adherence to council by-laws. (If they are in fact present, which we don't know in this case)
You haven't said if the woods are privately owned or council land.

Please post more details when posting polls, it's hard to vote on something when there are absolutely no details other than a cyclist telling you to leash your dog.


The poll is useless since it all depends on where you live and the council laws.

[Armistead]

Leash laws are for a purpose, abide by them or find a place you can let your dog run free.

[HunterICX]

Most of the time on a leash, since I'm being held responsible for his actions I rather not risk to ruin all what's right about the dog for 1 moment where it did something I didn't expect which may ruin it for me, the dog himself and in a worst case scenario a victim.

an example was with our old shepard who has been trained to a level of that of police dogs and it stuck to our legs like glue without a leash but one night when my dad walked with it he chased a cat crossing the street (usually when cat crossed and he didn't do anything whether by command or not) this time however he did chase not listening to commands to come back and got hit by a car. Luckily all that was needed from the vet where a few stitches on his paws.

Kept him on leash at all times myself only to let go for bit during playing fetch keeping an eye out on my surrounding if anyone else showed up. He obeyed well but my dad was the Alpha for him.

[Bilge_Rat]

Depends on the circumstances, my dog Lola is a 10 pound Shih-Tzuh, scared of her own shadow who sticks to my side like glue. If there is ever a problem, I just pick her up, so I rarely use a leash even when one is required.

[fireftr18]

That hits the core of the issue, a bicycle is a vehicle, a cycle lane is designated for use by vehicles.
It appears from the OP that this is a clearly marked cycle lane.
A road is used by vehicles, would the OP have his dog on the road without a leash?
No real difference is there?
So lets weigh it to see if the complaint makes sense
I was on the sidewalk , my dog went in the road to greet some dogs, people using the road objected that my dog was in their way, they could have gone round the dog, what is wrong with these drivers?:hmmm:
On balance the complaint seems to make no sense.
.


In my area, any trail designated for bicycles is a shared path also for pedestrians and pet walking. A leash is required for pets. We don't have any bicycle only paths.

[Tribesman]

In my area, any trail designated for bicycles is a shared path also for pedestrians and pet walking. A leash is required for pets. We don't have any bicycle only paths.
The last part is what is important.
Yes on shared paths bicycles must give way to horses, wheelchairs and pedestrians. Its a speed thing just like roads.
But what are the rules about pedestrians on the shared path with animals in tow?
Leashed isn't it, as it is a path shared with vehicles. :yep:

[Betonov]

But what are the rules about pedestrians on the shared path with animals in tow?


We're talking about dogs here. The human is the one in tow

[AVGWarhawk]

About cyclists. They're arrogant little jerks (got a better word but it's NSFW

And I thought it was just me who thought this. Most where I live believe the entire county should be a bicycle utopia. They have very little issue acting out about it.

[Jimbuna]

We're talking about dogs here. The human is the one in tow

That is certainly the case when I've got the pup out on a walk :)

[Sailor Steve]

Depends on the circumstances, my dog Lola is a 10 pound Shih-Tzuh, scared of her own shadow who sticks to my side like glue. If there is ever a problem, I just pick her up, so I rarely use a leash even when one is required.
Some people keep the dog on a leash. Others keep it in a pocket. :O:

[Platapus]

my dog Lola is a 10 pound Shih-Tzuh

We are talking about real dogs. Not dogettes. :D

[Aktungbby]

Well bottom line, is there a "leash law" or not?:hmmm: On the other hand a bicycle IS a vehical...and failure of a vehical to yield to a pedestrian is also a violation as one poor fellow found out when he rode into me in full kit while in a crosswalk, on the job, in San Francisco: so the game can go both ways. :hmmm: I googled "Pedestrian vs bicycles on share paths" and the results are remarkably similar for many states and municipalities. Big rule 1: Bicycles are vehicles! Know the path rules

You might be surprised to learn that use of shared paths and footpaths is covered in the Victorian road rules. Some of the key rules appear below:
What is a shared path?
A shared path is designed to be used by both pedestrians and bike riders. Signage indicates that the path is a shared path.
Up to what age can children legally ride on the footpath?
Children under 12 years are allowed to ride on the footpath. Adults who accompany children can also legally ride on the footpath.
Who has right of way on shared paths and footpaths?
If you are riding a bike on a shared path or footpath you are required to give way to all pedestrians.:salute:
Do I need to keep to the left when riding on a shared path or footpath?
Yes, it is a legal requirement that you ride on the left unless it is impracticable to do so. :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

We are talking about real dogs. Not dogettes. :D

Careful or I'll let this mean bugga give you a nasty lick :)

http://s22.postimg.org/xggzj3wqp/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[Tribesman]

If you are riding a bike on a shared path or footpath you are required to give way to all pedestrians.

Yes, but what has that got to do with the price of cheese?
The question is not about giving way to pedestrians, it is about if a dog has to be on a leash on a shared path.
And the answer is, of course it does.
So was the cyclist in the right? Yes.
Was Raymond in the wrong? Yes.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes, but what has that got to do with the price of cheese?
The question is not about giving way to pedestrians, it is about if a dog has to be on a leash on a shared path.
And the answer is, of course it does.
So was the cyclist in the right? Yes.
Was Raymond in the wrong? Yes.

Is it posted dogs are required to be leashed? If not the answer is not of course. For the dogs safety I would recommend a leash. However, at the end of the day, cyclists(at least in my area) have a personal vendetta with drivers and people on their bike paths. They believe they are saving the environment one pedal at a time.

[Aktungbby]

Yes, but what has that got to do with the price of cheese?
The question is not about giving way to pedestrians, it is about if a dog has to be on a leash on a shared path.
And the answer is, of course it does.
So was the cyclist in the right? Yes.
Was Raymond in the wrong? Yes.

Is it posted dogs are required to be leashed? If not the answer is not of course. For the dogs safety I would recommend a leash.

DOGONNIT! :O:you're probably both right but my sense of it is the bicyclist must give right of way and stay left. Politeness, common sense and and an enjoyable outing being foremost in both cases. The dog may even be an animal assist dog and the pedestrian handicapped-hence his being on foot; the biker doesn't know otherwise, and a 'shared path' isn't the proper venue for strict regulation and a major quibble. We have an open park nearby and the dogs are allowed to run free and the bikers and horsemen know it and still go cross country riding; the only big rule is: dog owners MUST clean up after their pets!:hmph:

[AVGWarhawk]

There is always common courtesy. Yes, a leashed dog is a safe dog IMO. Cleaning up his calling card is always best for all. I find that cyclists and dog owners are both very different and view the path as their own. The B&A Bike trail in MD is shared by all types and I do not hear much about it other than the cyclists who for some reason demand that the entire area should have bike paths. Honestly, not everyone is a bike nut who desires to ride everywhere. There are pressing issues in the county requiring cash. Constructing new bike trails is not one of them.

[Tribesman]

Is it posted dogs are required to be leashed? If not the answer is not of course
Is it posted on every road that dogs must be kept on a leash?
No because dog owners are supposed to be aware of this simple thing.
A shared path is in effect no different from a roadway.

DOGONNIT! :O:you're probably both right but my sense of it is the bicyclist must give right of way and stay left.
But if you look at the OPs complaint the cyclist did give way, the cyclist did as he should, the cyclist then complained that the dog owner was being irresponsible for not doing what he should.
The person at fault is the one who was not doing as he should...the dog owner who didn't have his animal under control on a vehicles route.
Under control means on a leash as even the best trained animals can do stuff like.....an example was with our old shepard who has been trained to a level of that of police dogs and it stuck to our legs like glue without a leash but one night when my dad walked with it he chased a cat crossing the street

[AVGWarhawk]

Tribesman:

Is it posted on every road that dogs must be kept on a leash?
No because dog owners are supposed to be aware of this simple thing.
A shared path is in effect no different from a roadway.

Roads and bike paths or paths in general have very different rules. Most county rules require dogs to be leashed no matter the circumstances. Although many do not leash their pet and it is widely accepted does not mean a rule is not being broken. Everyone is doing it does not apply. You give to much credit to some dog owners knowing this. And to much credit to cyclist as well. Yes, a shared bath is very different in the sense that roads have more signage and rules/laws governing them. Foot/bike paths have less rules and more common courtesy attached. As posted above, both believe the path belongs to them. At the end of the day IMO, the dog should be on a leash. Both parties could have handle the altercation a bit differently.

[Tribesman]

@AVG.
I am not giving too much credit.
Many dog owners and many cyclists are ignorant pricks when it comes to their responsibilities and the rights of others, but their ignorance doesn't negate the fact that they should be aware of these things.

[Aktungbby]

... as even the best trained animals can do stuff like.....an example was with our old shepard who has been trained to a level of that of police dogs and it stuck to our legs like glue without a leash but one night when my dad walked with it he chased a cat crossing the street Well naturally! a police level trained canine should give chase to an infracting JAYWALKING feline..as I discovered this AM myself as CATastrophe struck http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=193647&page=558#post2212143 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=193647&page=558#post2212143) :D

[AVGWarhawk]

@AVG.
I am not giving too much credit.
Many dog owners and many cyclists are ignorant pricks when it comes to their responsibilities and the rights of others, but their ignorance doesn't negate the fact that they should be aware of these things.

Following the rules is below most people.

[Feuer Frei!]

Here's some light reading for the dog owners in the land of Hot Dogs:

http://www.edgarsnyder.com/dog-bite/leash-laws/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/heavenlycreatures/2012/09/5-reasons-to-obey-the-leash-law-yes-im-talking-to-you/

[Gargamel]

Always check the council bye laws.

Don't have any woods nearby but we do have a green belt and the bye law states dogs should be under control whilst in a public area.

That's kinda vague. I'm friends with a few K9 handlers, and under control doesn't mean on a leash for them. They can have a a group of dogs walking in formation with them and that'd be under control.

My dog, I needed to keep her on a log chain else she'd be roaming the neighborhood. More than once a nieghbor would bring her back with her sitting happily in the back seat of their car.

[Tribesman]

That's kinda vague. I'm friends with a few K9 handlers, and under control doesn't mean on a leash for them.
Already dealt with.....
an example was with our old shepard who has been trained to a level of that of police dogs and it stuck to our legs like glue without a leash but one night when my dad walked with it he chased a cat crossing the street .

A dog is a dog, at times a dog will simply do whatever a dog wants to do no matter how well trained it is, the only way to prevent this happening is by physical restraint in the form of a leash.

[Jimbuna]

That's kinda vague. I'm friends with a few K9 handlers, and under control doesn't mean on a leash for them. They can have a a group of dogs walking in formation with them and that'd be under control.

My dog, I needed to keep her on a log chain else she'd be roaming the neighborhood. More than once a nieghbor would bring her back with her sitting happily in the back seat of their car.

If the dog causes injury or harm etc. and is not on a leash it is then considered not to be under control and the responsibility for said outcome is deemed to be the person in charge of the dog at the time, whether it be owner or temporary keeper.

[Feuer Frei!]

If the dog causes injury or harm etc. and is not on a leash it is then considered not to be under control and the responsibility for said outcome is deemed to be the person in charge of the dog at the time, whether it be owner or temporary keeper.

66.67% say 'heck no' to that so far.

Looks like some dog owners are arrogant pricks too, just like them calling cyclists arrogant pricks.
Both parties should cycle together sometime, while the dog is running ahead. Unleashed.

[Jimbuna]

66.67% say 'heck no' to that so far.

Looks like some dog owners are arrogant pricks too, just like them calling cyclists arrogant pricks.
Both parties should cycle together sometime, while the dog is running ahead. Unleashed.

Sad but I've seen a few motor vehicle accidents caused by unleashed dogs, not to mention the occasional impromptu savage assault on pedestrians....never one having caused a fatality but there have been a few in recent years.

[Gargamel]

Already dealt with.....
an example was with our old shepard who has been trained to a level of that of police dogs and it stuck to our legs like glue without a leash but one night when my dad walked with it he chased a cat crossing the street .

A dog is a dog, at times a dog will simply do whatever a dog wants to do no matter how well trained it is, the only way to prevent this happening is by physical restraint in the form of a leash.

Leash or no, when a group of German Shepherds want to chase that squirrel, they're gonna chase that squirrel.

Mine was able to pull my truck up a hill trying to chase one once. Thought tying her to the bumper hitch while I unpacked would be safe(accidentally knocked it into neutral), she started pulling, reversed the coast of the truck down the slight incline, and went after the squirrel.

So even one dog on a leash will still be able to pull its owner wherever it wants. I believe Rottweilers were bred to replace horses on farms to pull plows.

[Tribesman]

So even one dog on a leash will still be able to pull its owner wherever it wants.
If a dog on a leash is able to pull its owner wherever it wants then the dog is not in control of the owner and should not be allowed out in pubic.
I find a shotgun is very good at controlling dogs that are not under the control of their owners.

[Armistead]

One thing about dogs, you can't train out instincts. I've got a lil Yorkie and no matter what I do, if it sees a rat or mouse, he will chase it. I also have and train Tibetans, if they have a mind, very hard to control. My belief is dogs should be homed in enviroments that suit their breeding.

I love to walk all my numerous different dogs, but when I let them run free, I take them to where they can safely doing it, such as the farm or in the woods.

[Aktungbby]

Leash or no, when a group of German Shepherds want to chase that squirrel, they're gonna chase that squirrel.

Mine was able to pull my truck up a hill trying to chase one once. Thought tying her to the bumper hitch while I unpacked would be safe(accidentally knocked it into neutral), she started pulling, reversed the coast of the truck down the slight incline, and went after the squirrel.

So even one dog on a leash will still be able to pull its owner wherever it wants. I believe Rottweilers were bred to replace horses on farms to pull plows.
Carting actually; more than plowing. Descended probably from Roman cattle herding dogs to butcher cart dogs and cattle driving dogs in present day Germany, the musculature lends itself to heavy duty as in carting contests today. One of my clients is a Rottweiler Rescue guy and his wife goes round the planet with sniffer/cadaver 'rotties' to assist in disasters-truly a noble animal IMHO. http://96.0.238.153/images/deb%20and%20bosco.jpg

[Gargamel]

Very cool AK.

[Jimbuna]

One thing about dogs, you can't train out instincts. I've got a lil Yorkie and no matter what I do, if it sees a rat or mouse, he will chase it. I also have and train Tibetans, if they have a mind, very hard to control. My belief is dogs should be homed in enviroments that suit their breeding.



True that :yep:

[HunterICX]

So even one dog on a leash will still be able to pull its owner wherever it wants.

Not with this it won't.

http://i.imgur.com/qq036lU.jpg

Since I was 1 out of the 3 that walked the dog and just 14 at the time I had to use the collar shown above on him. Wile my parents used the regular one.

[Feuer Frei!]

Now where in the Blazers is raymond?

Must be chasing after his dog.

[AVGWarhawk]

So even one dog on a leash will still be able to pull its owner wherever it wants.

I have a hard time believing the toy breeds would pull their owners around.

Teacup Yorkie:

http://www.petclassifieds.us/user_images/9414876.jpg

[Dan D]

You can imagine my reaction! He gets off his bike, so I get squared off. He takes out his phone and starts taking my picture!! It's to give it to the police, he says!! Off he rode. :down:

Well, I guess the Police at your place does not like self- proclaimed "nazi" block leaders' who report a "massive Violation" of administrative offences commited by dog owners, drivers, cyclists etc, too.

Taking pictures, what a tosser. Is that even allowed?

This imo is not so much about legal norms but about social norms. I for one like racing my bicycle. Dog owners hate me, because we meet where they think they can safely unleash their dog and then it is me coming up with high speed. They fear for their dog and I fear for my bike and my health and so I always slow down to give them a chance to grab their dog so that I don't overun it and hurt myself. Same goes with horse riders, carriage drivers and elderly people etc. People are usually thankful for that.
What I really hate is when I am walking on a hiking trail and get overtaken by a mountain biker from behind with high Speed without any sign of warning. That is reckless in my book. Different story.

[Stealhead]

In this day and age I'd only have a dog leash free only in an area I had control over like my own property. Any place else if something happens you could get sued.