Optimal Distance when (Attacking A Destroyer & Attacking a ship with an S-Class)

[depthtok33l]

Hi all, got a few questions about attacking distances.

Scenario 1: Attacking a Destroyer
I just "semi-successfully" executed an attack on a lone IJN destroyer, why "semi-successfully"? Well I managed to sink it but with 6 torpedoes :haha:. What a waste for a ship worth just over 1700 tons.

I attacked from a distance of about 2500 yards - not the best distance especially when attacking destroyers. I put some spread in my shots (6 left, 5 left..and so on target was coming from the "right" of my sub), fired 4. Out of the 4, 1 managed to hit near its propellers reducing its speed and I finished it off with 2 midship shots. I was using a tambor-class sub here.

So my question to you good captains of Subsim - How close are you to a destroyer when attacking it?

Scenario 2: Rustbucket attack
Left Surabaya, going through Makassar Strait with a rustbucket when I spotted a lone 7000 ton Japanese merchant ship. I quickly positioned myself for 90° attack at a distance of about 900 yards. I fired all 4 - all evaded. That feeling when you're looking at a juicy target passing right in front of you :wah:.

Same patrol 5 days later somewhere in Celebes Sea another merchant, about 5000 tons. 90° attack at a range of about 750 yards same result as the one above.

Using manual tdc, calculations are great.
Mark-10 ugh. :/\\!!

Same question but with a rustbucket, how close do you have to be when attacking.
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Using TMO - I'm aware that the AI is buffed.

[les green01]

usual on escorts ill do down the throats if I attack,main thing on torpedoes attack make sure to open the doors

[merc4ulfate]

les has a good point. Make sure your doors are open before you hit fire. The delay can cost you your accuracy. I prefer to be within 800 yards on destroyers. I know I will waste two fish because if he sees the fish he will turn port or starboard so I guess which one and I'd say 75% of the time they turn starboard.

On your merchants ... leave the scope at 000. When the ship is at 350(with doors open) fire your fish while the scope is at 000 ... at the range you were ... it is hard to miss that way.

[depthtok33l]

usual on escorts ill do down the throats if I attack,main thing on torpedoes attack make sure to open the doors

I always open them just a few minutes before I fire.

[Akotalaya]

lol...Mark 10's and the S-class...would take that boat over my Balao...she is much smaller and can get into shallow water easier, i used one to get into rabaul harbor where i sank a heavy cruiser and crippled another..and on the way in i hit and almost sank one of the same class...but i think the S-class should be mastered before using any other boat...if you can master the S class then the other boats are childs play. but all it takes is practice and you wont have any problems...also if i miss i go ahead full and chase them down, i dont like big juicy merchants to get away from me..i wanna play online so bad too...

[Snarf]

lol...Mark 10's and the S-class...would take that boat over my Balao...she is much smaller and can get into shallow water easier, i used one to get into rabaul harbor where i sank a heavy cruiser and crippled another..and on the way in i hit and almost sank one of the same class...but i think the S-class should be mastered before using any other boat...if you can master the S class then the other boats are childs play. but all it takes is practice and you wont have any problems...also if i miss i go ahead full and chase them down, i dont like big juicy merchants to get away from me..i wanna play online so bad too...

It's always good to learn to do more with less. When you have less torpedoes to fire you have to get really good at evading while not at silent running to give your boys time to reload. You also have to make the shots you do have count. Yesterday I singlehandedly took out the entire Java invasion force (save two Tyohei Marus) there were 8 Tyohei Marus, 3 Naka Light cruisers and about 6 destroyers, all in a Salmon. I didn't even end around or anything, I just stayed with the convoy underneath while constant helming at full speed while my torpedomen reloaded. I took out the DD's and light cruisers first, then went to work on the troop transports. I ran out of torpedoes with 5 Tyohei's left, and finished off 3 more with the 3" deck gun before running out of ammo. Every torpedo I fired I meticulously set the depth and opened the doors before firing. The whole time I did not fire any shots outside of 1000 yards (it really helped that they slowed to 4 knots), I also did not fire within 3000 yards with the deck gun to avoid the machine gunners on the Marus.

Oh and to answer the question, DD's I shoot between 500-800 yards if they are aware of me, maybe 1000 or 1100 if I haven't spooked them yet.

[Snarf]

Oh don't forget to overcompensate on your depth setting, they do tend to run deep, so I always bring it up 10 feet.

[Hinrich Schwab]

Hi all, got a few questions about attacking distances.

Scenario 1: Attacking a Destroyer
I just "semi-successfully" executed an attack on a lone IJN destroyer, why "semi-successfully"? Well I managed to sink it but with 6 torpedoes :haha:. What a waste for a ship worth just over 1700 tons.

I attacked from a distance of about 2500 yards - not the best distance especially when attacking destroyers. I put some spread in my shots (6 left, 5 left..and so on target was coming from the "right" of my sub), fired 4. Out of the 4, 1 managed to hit near its propellers reducing its speed and I finished it off with 2 midship shots. I was using a tambor-class sub here.

So my question to you good captains of Subsim - How close are you to a destroyer when attacking it?



I would prefer to avoid destroyers altogether. They guard the targets worthy of torpedoes.:D However, if you MUST sink one, Anything further away than 1000 yards is asking for a wasted shot. Even in stock, the destroyer AI can spot torpedo wakes rather easily. At distances of 1000 yards or more, a simple aspect change or throttle spike will ruin the shot. At 500-1000 yards, there are two options. The first is a stealth alpha strike against a destroyer. I would position myself windward and abeam and wait in complete silence at All Stop for the destroyer to cross my path. I would take no more than two (2) shots. If one shot connects, the destroyer is at least crippled and two shots virtually guarantees a kill. If the destroyer uses the "SH4 Jake Brake" to magically stop in the water or slow down to change aspect, the odds are that it will turn away from the torpedoes, showing its blind spot to me, giving me free reign to escape, whereupon I run under convoys to wear the merchants as hats. if the formation is large enough, the convoy prevents the destroyers from coming at me and I sink ships in the formation with minimal to no resistance.

The other way to sink a destroyer is the "down the throat" shot. This actually works better if you are detected because the destroyer will come at you full steam, making dodging the shot harder. I fire two torpedoes at 800 yards with me and the destroyer at Flank Speed or 750 if the destroyer is slower. I then crash dive and HOPE I have enough time to go deep enough for my periscope shears to clear his keel as the torpedoes light him up, then I knuckle away to avoid the sinking ship. This technique can be inverted if the destroyer is in a stern chase with you. However, it is better to wait until 700 yards and you still have to crash dive because the destroyer will always outrun you, even as a burning hulk. The Stern Chase version is best in shallow water where crash diving may be a bad idea.

[Snarf]

If the destroyer uses the "SH4 Jake Brake" to magically stop in the water or slow down to change aspect


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/attachment.php?attachmentid=886&stc=1&d=1397924096 Japanius Destroyerus SH4icus

[depthtok33l]

I would prefer to avoid destroyers altogether. They guard the targets worthy of torpedoes.:D

Yes, it is wasteful indeed, however I was sent on a patrol in the Marshall Islands
where all I saw were Australian vessels for a whole in-game month within my patrol zone. When I was nearly out of fuel, decided to leave and just before I left the Marshall territory, there was a lone destroyer crossing right in front of me, so might as well since I haven't used any torpedoes.

[depthtok33l]

Oh and to answer the question, DD's I shoot between 500-800 yards if they are aware of me, maybe 1000 or 1100 if I haven't spooked them yet.

Worked perfectly, thanks. Just sunk one a few minutes ago. :salute:

[Armistead]

Hitting a DD can be difficult if you're trying to get a side shot, so most don't mess with them or prefer a DTT shot. A lot depends on your mods, torp failures, damage zones, etc.

Because warships ships can turbo and stop on a dime, I prefer to shoot spreads by the wire. The goal is to fix it or confuse it so it won't turbo off or stop on you. I will get target info, then unlock target and aim by the wire on the bow, next MOT and then one at the rear or a tad behind it. When it sees the first torp, the AI will try to dodge, knowing it's at the bow and can't speed by it, it will slow to dodge it, so hopefully the MOT or rear torp will hit it.

I don't go after DD's as a target much early war with M14's unless planning a DTT shot. I prefer to get them chasing me so I can use the sterns, that way if I'm missed I'm going away from the enemy and gives me more time to dive deep. If doing a DTT I set up a dead straight shot not using the TDC, basically get in at 180 perfect because they will come straight. I will then shoot by the wire aiming a small 3 shot spread in case he starts helming or spots them and tries to zig..hopefully he will run into one. If you let them get too close they will switch to a helming search pattern, but stay on the same course, so spreads are a must IMO. Now when I get M18's I go after the DD's at all angles.

Shoot all your torps as fast together as possible so they all arrive basically together as much as the game allows. If you get good at judging distance, sometimes I'll shoot the first one's' on slow speed, wait a few then shoot the others at fast..hoping they all hit together.

[Warren Peace]

With DDs, I'd rather go deep and evade, as I tend to believe any warship below 3k tons is a waste. If it has to be done, I'll fire one just to port of the fool, then fire another just starboard ~5 seconds later. 90% of the time, the moron turns to avoid the torpedo that is going to miss, and runs straight into the second shot.

As for scenario number 2, I have no idea how you missed at 750 yards with a Mk.10, since the run-time at that distance is something like 37 seconds, which should not be nearly enough time for a merchant to detect and evade the incoming torpedoes. In my opinion, 750 yards is a great shooting distance, so I really can't say what could have gone wrong.

[A Hidden Soul]

Almost always I will avoid anti-submarine ships. Unless I'm attacking a convoy or damaging a task force. Anyway...here's how I approach it.

I will continue to stay on the surface running at ahead standard. Once I feel I'm closing in on viewing distance I will submerge. I will keep at periscope depth until I'm about 2nm or 2000m away. At that point I will dive down past thermal layer until I'm about 1nm or 1000m away. I will then change speed to ahead slow and come back up to periscope depth and check around. I will then fire my fish. If I'm detected I will lower scope, go ahead full, and go to test depth. Once I'm there I will change course and set speed at ahead slow and sneak away.

Keep in mind if it's available take out whatever DD is in front of you broad side. If he's not a threat do NOT attack him. Choice is yours, I'm for completing the mission and making it home alive. Notice I said alive and not safe. Chances are, if detected you will take a depth charge or two.

[Shkval]

Well gentlemen, IF I decide to attack a destroyer, first thing is the choice of proper torpedo for the job, steam ones only by night... the uglier night the better i.e. less light... electric by day. In case of the steam torpedo get as close as possible, silent running "on", 1.5 knots speed, below 50 rpm, 700 meters distance, T course, 0 degrees shot. Rising of periscope down to a minimum, often following target with hydrophone after the last optical parameter check. With electric torpedo you can be more comfortable, mostly in distance field... I will attack only if a warship is on a closing course... never chasing or end around waste of ammo and fuel ... except it's a carrier or something bigger than destroyer, but it's a rare thing and they are always much faster than you...

[TorpX]

When I was just starting in SHCE, I often engaged destroyers, and usually sank them. But when I started playing a career and using manual targeting, it was very much the opposite. I didn't see the sense in risking a good career for the dubious victory sinking a small but dangerous ship, like a destroyer.

IMO, it is very easy to take on ASW ships (and be brave generally), when you are using map-contacts and auto-targeting. The game seems to fall short in some of these aspects.

I did sink two Momi class patrol boats in a career not too long ago. I was in an area of sparse shipping and decided to make an approach on one patrolling. It was at night and I dived when I was close. He was hit by 1 of a spread of 3 without being aware of my presence. I had actually miscalculated the firing solution, but the spread covered my mistake. The second started like the first, but saw me as I was tracking it. I had to dive to escape shell fire, and intended to sneak away, but after awhile he had stopped to listen. I had to slowly turn the boat around (at low speed), to fire a single torpedo at ~3,000 yds., aimed near the bow. They saw it about 2 sec. before impact, but still took a fatal hit 2/3 towards the stern. All of this is with a S-class sub, btw.

[anotherdemon]

6 fish for 1 DD is probably good as far as historical accounts go.

Sure, it's not a huge tanker or transport, but it's a serious warship.

Anyway, the only way I attack a DD is down the throat with 1 fish, then another fish either side of him (a couple of degrees or so for each); that way when he sees the one coming straight on, he'll turn p or s and catch one of the others. 3 fish for one DD is good.

Though I'm not surfaced when I do this. I head for the DD at flank and get his attention, then I'll go to PD and make a heap of noise so he'll still be coming at me. When you think he's in the no escape zone of the 3 fish, let em' go (shallow depth).