Taxes done right?

[Wolferz]

Even Rummy is confused...
http://news.msn.com/us/ex-us-defense-secretary-knows-accuracy-of-his-tax-return-is-unknown


:har:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

:D

:D

:D

(ouch, my jaws don't stretch enough...)

[Betonov]

Here the DURS (Slovene IRS) does our taxes.

I'll get €200 back so I really don't care if they were done right :)

[Oberon]

http://thefabweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/EGopFRS.png

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Here the DURS (Slovene IRS) does our taxes.

I'll get €200 back so I really don't care if they were done right :)Can't be! I'm confident they just forgot this little symbol from your tax papers: -

:D

(I got only €4 back. Lucky one!)

[Platapus]

"The tax code is so complex and the forms so complicated that I know that I cannot have any confidence that I know what is being requested and therefore I cannot and do not know, and I suspect a great many Americans cannot know, whether or not their tax returns are accurate," he wrote."

Uh, I know that my taxes are done accurately. Probably because I am not trying to scam the system with questionable deductions and loopholes.

[mapuc]

I must have been a nice guy got about 370 $ from them in return

They are well needed.

Markus

[TarJak]

Here the DURS (Slovene IRS) does our taxes.

I'll get €200 back so I really don't care if they were done right :)

Your shout then in July! :woot:

[August]

Here the DURS (Slovene IRS) does our taxes.

I'll get €200 back so I really don't care if they were done right :)

What happens if you should have got €20000 instead?

[August]

http://thefabweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/EGopFRS.png


Makes sense if you think about it. :yep:

[Sailor Steve]

He left off the unknown knowns. I'm sure there are things I don't know that I know.

[fireftr18]

Makes sense if you think about it. :yep:

But it hurts my brain.:hmmm:

[TarJak]

Makes sense if you think about it. :yep:

Makes even more sense if you don't think about it.

[Jimbuna]

Here in the UK (unless you are self employed) your employer deducts tax at source by referring to the individuals tax code allowance.

Much simpler but it does mean you pay your tax prior to the release of your wage.

[banryu79]

Here in the UK (unless you are self employed) your employer deducts tax at source by referring to the individuals tax code allowance.

Much simpler but it does mean you pay your tax prior to the release of your wage.
Mmm... how could you know how much to pay in taxes calculated against your wage before getting the wage itself?
This is a clear example of known unknown knowns... You know, the things that you are supposed to know you don't know, but instead you know. It's so simple :haha:

[Betonov]

Much simpler but it does mean you pay your tax prior to the release of your wage.

Same here. The amount is shown on the pay report.

[swamprat69er]

Here in the UK (unless you are self employed) your employer deducts tax at source by referring to the individuals tax code allowance.

Much simpler but it does mean you pay your tax prior to the release of your wage.
The same thing is done in Canada.
I also rent out my house and that money is not taxed.....Pensions and higher than normal wages this past year took a toll and I paid out an additional $2600.oo :wah:

[Red October1984]

Here in the UK (unless you are self employed) your employer deducts tax at source by referring to the individuals tax code allowance.

Much simpler but it does mean you pay your tax prior to the release of your wage.

If I have the right idea, that's the same thing they do here...at least for me. :hmmm:

Seems to be a good system. I don't pay a whole lot of tax...like 2-4 dollars per paycheck.

[swamprat69er]

I am quoting off a pay stub from last year. (2013) For 26 hours at hard labour? $726.81 +10 hours statutory holiday pay $250.60, I paid $116.21 in taxes. (Deducted at the source.)
Then there are other deductions, too.

[Betonov]

Seems to be a good system. I don't pay a whole lot of tax...like 2-4 dollars per paycheck.

Out of ??

[Jimbuna]

The same thing is done in Canada.
I also rent out my house and that money is not taxed.....Pensions and higher than normal wages this past year took a toll and I paid out an additional $2600.oo :wah:

What angers me is the fact I pay basic rate tax of 20% of each and every pound of my pension.

[swamprat69er]

On the RRSP's that I converted into Life Income Funds, taxes are optional. But if I don't pay taxes out of it when I get it, then I have to pay the tax in April when I do my taxes. The Old Age Security that I get along with the Canada Pension Plan are both taxable and if I wasn't working, they would be taxable at a much lower rate than what I pay while working.

[Jimbuna]

I hope to get my tax affairs sorted within two months but my main fear is HMRC will tell me it will have to wait to the next tax year which is next April.

[Wolferz]

If I have the right idea, that's the same thing they do here...at least for me. :hmmm:

Seems to be a good system. I don't pay a whole lot of tax...like 2-4 dollars per paycheck.

What? What does your job pay, nothing? You aren't really paying taxes on your weekly pay but have funds withheld to help cover your tax burden at the end of the year. Withholding is generally @ 23% of your gross pay. I can see your withholding being almost nil if you are only working part time.:) I'm sure you've noticed all those extra lines of deductibles in your pay stub. Like FICA (Social Security) and all that rot. As your working career develops in the coming years you will come to hate what gets pulled out and you will soon learn that the system totally sucks balls.:-?

[Skybird]

Taxes done right? They are never done right, not in collecting, and not in wasting them.

I learned some years ago that of all literature about national and international tax laws and treaties, all literature that exist on the globe in any language on the issue - over the half of it is about the German tax system alone.

That' us Germans, yeah!:dead:

Voluntary accepting to pay taxes is either conspiracy and support of organised crime, or a clue for a brain oedema - while blackmailed enforced tax payments are a crime. Tax payers are either accomplices, patients, or victims.

The only moral solution: ask people for voluntary donations. Will not happen. The many sun kings scrimmaging in the world of politics, need the loot to bribe their herds of obedient voting cattle, to build their monumental public construction projects by which they want to win eternal fame and annihilate billions in money, and to grease the feudal relations with other sun kings and their ever growing royal households of antisocial parasites.

[magic452]

When I was working at Lockheed I worked a lot of overtime.
The way it worked out for a 5 day week everything I made on Friday went to the government. A 6 day week all of the time and a half Saturday went to the man. Seven days all the double time Sunday went to Uncle Sam.
It worked out almost to the dollar.

Magic

[Red October1984]

Out of ??

What? What does your job pay, nothing? You aren't really paying taxes on your weekly pay but have funds withheld to help cover your tax burden at the end of the year. Withholding is generally @ 23% of your gross pay. I can see your withholding being almost nil if you are only working part time.:) I'm sure you've noticed all those extra lines of deductibles in your pay stub. Like FICA (Social Security) and all that rot. As your working career develops in the coming years you will come to hate what gets pulled out and you will soon learn that the system totally sucks balls.:-?

I work like 5 hours a week part-time at a grocery store. :doh:

I get like....30$-35$ per shift.

[Wolferz]

I work like 5 hours a week part-time at a grocery store. :doh:

I get like....30$-35$ per shift.

That 'splains it.:yep:

[Betonov]

I work like 5 hours a week part-time at a grocery store. :doh:

I get like....30$-35$ per shift.

Thats a low tax rate if I ever saw one.

[Jimbuna]

Thats a low tax rate if I ever saw one.

Well I'm jealous :-?

[Platapus]

I hate paying taxes.

Just the other day, I was driving on some really nice and well maintained roads, passing our Fire Department that has the latest Emergency equipment to help save our lives; just down the road was our police station where we have a pretty good number of police to keep the crime low in my neighbourhood (which helps keep the property values good); About 5 miles a way we have a nice hospital with a state of the art trauma ER (been there way too many times); Nestled in the trees, I could not see the modern schools (not as good a school system as possible, but pretty good) where the kids gets some learnin'; more visible is a our big library which does so much more than just store books on shelves.

Wistfully, I wished I could skip work and go to one of several parks, where they have really done a good job melding nature with recreation. I thought ahead to that evening when I would stop off at a local market knowing that the State and Country inspect the local farms to make sure the food I feed my family is not hazardous.

While at home I can get a glass of water knowing that it is safe for my family to drink and that after the meal I can sit on the throne knowing that "that" also will be taken care of safely. Exactly 6 miles from my house is our sanitation landfill where our non-recyclable trash is buried. Unless you read the sign, you can't tell it is a landfill. It really helps keep things clean. Speaking of recycling, the county has a really good recycling program which is efficient and more important, easy to use. The easier recycling is made, the more people will want to use it.

Yeah, I don't like paying taxes either. I wonder what I am getting for my tax dollars?

:D

[August]

I wonder what I am getting for my tax dollars?

You get camouflage uniforms for the military that don't work. You get 10 Federal agencies doing the same job. You get "Bridges to Nowhere" and "Big Digs" that are marvels of political cronyism, cost overruns and shoddy construction. You get billions and billions wasted on countless expensive boondoggles by a government that increasingly views itself as more important than the people it is supposed to serve.

Still feeling so happy about paying taxes? :hmmm::)

[nikimcbee]

You get camouflage uniforms for the military that don't work. You get 10 Federal agencies doing the same job. You get "Bridges to Nowhere" and "Big Digs" that are marvels of political cronyism, cost overruns and shoddy construction. You get billions and billions wasted on countless expensive boondoggles by a government that increasingly views itself as more important than the people it is supposed to serve.

Still feeling so happy about paying taxes? :hmmm::)

I'll add to August's list:D.

@ Platapus,
If you were from Ore-gone, you'd get "Cover Ore-gone" (OR version of obamacare), the computer system doesn't work at all!!
I'd throw in Portland taxes, but I don't live there. They have some great ones.

[em2nought]

http://thefabweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/EGopFRS.png
Guys like Ross Perot out there, and "we" got guys like Rummy in charge. :har: sheeple. :stare:

[Red October1984]

Well I'm jealous :-?

:D

Thats a low tax rate if I ever saw one.

Let's see...on April 3rd I picked up a paycheck for $31.35 and paid $2.40 in tax. :)

[Betonov]

Let's see...on April 3rd I picked up a paycheck for $31.35 and paid $2.40 in tax. :)

Just fund my tax report.
I made €12 000 (aprox.) and payed €2 120 in taxes last year.
Highway robbery I say

[Platapus]

Still feeling so happy about paying taxes? :hmmm::)

It is not a perfect system but it sure beats the alternative. :yep:

[August]

It is not a perfect system but it sure beats the alternative. :yep:


So how do we keep the taxes for the things we really need but eliminate the waste and fraud that pisses everyone off to the point they don't want to pay?

[nikimcbee]

I vote we throw the tea in the bay. Has anyone thought of that? I'm going to dress up as an Indian too.

http://images.indianexpress.com/2014/01/varunsoodm.jpg

...oh. Lost in translation.

[swamprat69er]

I vote we throw the tea in the bay. Has anyone thought of that? I'm going to dress up as an Indian too.

http://images.indianexpress.com/2014/01/varunsoodm.jpg

...oh. Lost in translation.
We need another 'tea party' on both sides of the 49th.

[Platapus]

So how do we keep the taxes for the things we really need but eliminate the waste and fraud that pisses everyone off to the point they don't want to pay?

Wish I had the solution. :)

[Skybird]

Contributing to communal needs is not wrong at all. However, I ask why I must give the money not to the needs I see reasonable to support, but to politicians far away who then use my money to do with it what THEY want, and that is most often not what I want to see being done with my money. Instead I see them turning the world into a mess. Not only do they do with my money what I do not wish to support, but what I indeed want to support often remains unsupported.

Political parasites are classical men in the middle, squeezing themselves in where they are not needed and people could have a direct causal linkage from themselves to the cause to which they want to contribute. So why are they there, why do we tolerate them! They are maggots living in the tasty centre of the spam. A healthy idea would be to squeeze them out and to swat them.

Why is this? Why should these antisocial parasites being paid by me for a service which is no service, and which consist of wasting my money while stealing my money form the causes I want my money being spend on?

That new autobahn link they want to build north of my home - why should I pay for it when I do not support it? It would destroy a precious and beautiful nature reserve that is used by citi8zens in my town for recreation, relaxation, picnic and bicycle bike tours. Or should I pay for projects that take place 700 km away from me and to which I am not linked in any way? Why should I pay for policies that I totally oppose and would prefer to see being shut down and destroyed? Why should I allow my money being spent on issues on which i do not even get asked, and when I oppose them, they get realised and spent money for nevertheless? Migration policies, environmental policies, antisocial wellfare spending frenzies?

Why should I allow somebody else to determine in my place what is good for me and what not? Is money I own or earned, indeed my moiney if pöoltivcians claim the right to steal it from me in the name of "higher interests", that just mean nothing else but THEIR interests? Why am I not left the freedom to decide myself and to assess myself what is of interest worthy to be supported? Why should I accept their definition of higher interest? I don't! Not at all!

No, I insist on the control over my money being left to where it belongs: leave it to me. What I see as reasonable to support I will support. What I oppose, I will not support. You can ask me to contribute. But I deny you any right to demand a contribution from me - and even preset its amount for me in advance.

But that would mean an end to the sun kings' spending parties, where they waste money that is not theirs, for ridiculous causes, and with shining, glorious project incompetence of theirs. Just see how politicians jump from one ressort to the next, and in each new field they claim to be the ideal office holders, knowing it all. The result is monumental messups like the new Berlin airport BER, immigration policy that is a total fail and is enforced against the majority's will, or the creation of structures of organised crime and tyranny.

Never allow politicians to decide over monetarian issues, never allow them to create money, to print it, to define its value and to regulate it. And never never never allow politicians to collect money and spend it like they want. NEVER.

If you think about it, this means the end of the politician as the term is being understood today. without being able to spend money, politicians would have no function.

Since I started to read about these things, I have never, not a single time, read a single argument in defence of mandatory tax payments that could morally survive. It'S a criminal act of oppression where the one group of people claims the right to steal property from the others and use it as they like. As I see it it is a surviving element of the medieval feudal mentality where kings thought of peasants as their private property.

In business, I prefer costs for erecting and financing infrastructure wanted by traders and businessmen to be calculated into the prices of products that get transported via this infrastructure. Leave the control over the construction to those who are affected by it: businessmen. It is in their interest to negotiate best possible deals over the costs, to keep the price impact for their products as low as possible and thus remain attractive for customers. Much better than bureaucratic control of tax money that gets sunk in ever growing stupid projects where they spend money that is not theirs, and where more money is needed to maintain the hilarious superstructure of bureaucracy that bites of its share from the financial cake. For what...? Well, you tell me! Cut back state ministries and bureaucracies by 90% minimum. Prohibit life-long professional political "service". Nobody should be allowed to make his living by being a politician. And never allow anyone to become a politician who benefits more from being a politician than he contributes to the communal good.

People in a place can organise themselves. They can build themselves, and define their interests and options themselves. They do not need more and more political and bureaucratic superstructures over them, pushing them onto their knees and telling them what they owe to politicians, and what they should do and what they are not allowed to do, and that the money they earn by their hand's work to over the half belongs to politicians and political parties and bureaucracies deciding for what it is to be spend (and last but not least that is to spend it for themselves and their power interests).

You think the age of feudalism and kings and peasants is over? Think again. You are wrong.

[Skybird]

Just fund my tax report.
I made €12 000 (aprox.) and payed €2 120 in taxes last year.
Highway robbery I say

It'S more. Add to it the taxes like VAT and so on, that are not liksted on your payroll. when you fill your car'S tank. Go to movies. Use a copy machine. Pay for your new Id card when the old one became invalid.

Then, mandatory insurances. In Germany, you cannot legally work without having some of them.

In Germany at least, the ordinary employee and worker must allow to have more than half of his income being stolen from him. Legally.

Believe me, its true. Over one half.

[Betonov]

I was refering to income tax.

Medical insurances and social insurance are payed by my employer. Probably my wage wouldn't be higher without them, only his takings so I don't care about that.

VAT and road tax and the rest of them, those are voluntary. Don't want to pay a road tax, don't own a car, don't want to pay VAT, don' buy things.

I don't mind paying taxes. The new road and fibreoptic line on my street was payed by taxes. My successful asthma treatment was payed by insurance and taxes, the paramedics that helped my mother were payed by taxes and the ambulance was payed by taxes.
Only the taxes being used for the upkeep of the retard-fest called the government are the ones that I have a problem with

[Jimbuna]

Just fund my tax report.
I made €12 000 (aprox.) and payed €2 120 in taxes last year.
Highway robbery I say

This poor old pensioner wouldn't mind swapping ya :o

[Betonov]

This poor old pensioner wouldn't mind swapping ya :o

You'd be shocked with how little you get by with a €1000 per month here.
European prices, Balkan wages :nope:

[swamprat69er]

Only the taxes being used for the upkeep of the retard-fest called the government are the ones that I have a problem with

:har::har::haha: Retard-fest. I love it!

[Skybird]

I was refering to income tax.

Medical insurances and social insurance are payed by my employer. Probably my wage wouldn't be higher without them, only his takings so I don't care about that.

VAT and road tax and the rest of them, those are voluntary. Don't want to pay a road tax, don't own a car, don't want to pay VAT, don' buy things.

I don't mind paying taxes. The new road and fibreoptic line on my street was payed by taxes. My successful asthma treatment was payed by insurance and taxes, the paramedics that helped my mother were payed by taxes and the ambulance was payed by taxes.
Only the taxes being used for the upkeep of the retard-fest called the government are the ones that I have a problem with

Why have you not done private insurance deals for your asthma and hospital costs? You want faster internet - why must all others pay for it, why not just yourself and those wanting it? The paramedics helped your family out - what is so immoral in expecting you to come up for the costs, why must all others budget you?

And in your country you people really can step to the cashdesk and decide all by yourself whether you want to pay VAT this day, or not? I don'T believe that.

Solidarity that is enforced, is no solidarity, but force, because solidarity necessarily has voluntariness as a precondition. And those who always speak of this social solidarity, in the end mean just this: all others pay for me.

I refuse to be solidary, refusing that has become a moral imperative and a demand of reason in these crazy times of ours. People can ask me whether I help them out or not, or whether I contribute to somethign they want to see getting done, or not. But the choice must be mine. Where I am forced to comply with some stranger's demands and must pay for him whether I want it or not, I turn hostile nowadays.

And for myself, I also do not want free rides, btw. The costs of my educaiton have been payed for - by the taxes of my father over that time. I do not buy into this criminal "Umlagesystem" (no English translation found, I mean)that was implemented after WWII, it always remains to be a crime against the following generation, always. It is like a chain mail system. My insurance sees me paying more into it, then I have taken in returns. One occasion where I needed an ambulance after I was stabbed down some years ago, saw me making a voluntary donation to the Maltheser organisation of 300 Euros. Back then I still had not dived that deep into libertarian politics and economics like I have in the past 2 years or so, but already back then I hated to have debts with somebody.

A recent study by the OECD confirmed Germany being at the global top of tax liabilities for citizens in the various countries, over 49% of wages get stolen by the state for income tax and social taxes. Add to this consumer taxes and VAT , and you easily end up far beyond the 60% mark. Even Sweden has learned after the partial collapse of its socialist utopia of the 80s' dreams that such taxation levels are poison, and had them cut back . In Germany, our people are mentally so damaged that they even demand to get taxed more! People want it! It is here where I realise that the situation is really hopeless. Its a typical German deformation, Germans are not any less missionary than Americans are, we only are like that in a very different manner. But both expect that sooner or later all the world would follow their wonderful example they have set.

Even when haying payed for that ambulance, voluntarily, taxes I must accept to get betrayed over nevertheless. I would prefer to have all thta money given by me used for purposes that I decide on, in my region and place of living, over issues I am in any way linked to, are affected by. I do not carer for maintaining an Autobahn in Bavaria. I care for maintaining an Autobahn here in the Münsterland, and want the Bavarians not caring for ours, but theirs. I do not see why the money for that must be given to bureaucrats in berlin and Brussels knowing nothign about that, and distributing nation-wide money pools via so many instances in the middle to their final purposes that the deciding polticians are totally disconnected from. We people in the Münsterland could very well decide and organise autobahn maintenance all by ourselves, or let it be done by those wanting to use that part of the autobahn - and then have them the costs added to the prices of consumer goods (instead of VAT) and road toll systems. Those using the autobahn, pay via street toll when driving on that autobahn. Those not using the autobahn, but profiteering from havign their consumer goods being transported via the autobahn, pay via the price for consumer goods that has the costs for the autobahn calculated into it, like now the VAT is included in it. - Just a principle example. Most things could be organsied like this, regionally, locally, via private contracts - no need for politicians overwatching it: education, healthcare, police, fire brigades, cultural life... People pay for what they use, they do not pay for what they do not use. If a business or service stops to exist because not sufficient people were willing to pay for it, then this simply means the demand was too low for that service. Just make sure there is competition between companies offering such services, and no monopoles and cartels being formed up. If people want a cultural life ion their town, they will pay for it. If they do not want to pay for it, then obviously it is not worth it to them. The few wanting it nevertheless have no right to force the majority to nevertheless subsidize it. If they see their future threatened by to low educaiton and cultural life standards, they will pay for increasing them. If they will not do that, they will have to live with the consequences. But it is THEIR decision. Not yours, not mine, not thta of some feudal sun king in a distant capital telling them "You MUST!" and "You SHALL NOT!"

Politicians are a disturbance variable only. And they live parasitically by people accepting their useless existence. They bribe people into handing over their freedom and self-responsibility to them, and in return get material 24/7 nursing and in the end total dependence form the state. Great things will come from such a dozing, lazy, incompetent, cowardly population that even expects getting its baby ar$e$ wiped by the government!

Pay for what you take, do noit take what is not yours, make your bills and debts straight, do not spend more and demand more than you can afford, if you have ambitions: prepare the basic groundwork first enabling you to realise them - do not dare for even one minute to assume that the others owe it to you. They don't owe you anything more than just the fulfillment of their part of any deal you negotiated with them.

Where the heck are politicians and governments needed in all this?

And what shall it be now - do we formally guarantee the freedom to own private property - or do we not, instead allowing the majority to decide over partial expropriation, and legalizing theft and looting? When two wolves and a lamb have a vote on what shall be up for dinner, how will it end?

[Betonov]

Solidarity that is enforced, is no solidarity

I refuse to be solidaric,


Then drag yourself into a little hole and be alone and angry there.

Enforced solidarity helped me, my family and most of the people I know so I really don't care about if it's voluntary or not. No one got killed paying those taxes.
But you know when people would die ?? When un-enforced solidarity would be in place. Especially in a nation as cold-hearted and egotistical as Slovenia. You think people would line the tax office with money to ''donate'' to the healthcare system. They wouldn't give a cent and people would die because of it. And in the end they themselves would die because they wouldn't be able to afford it.

So what if my insurance was used to pay for someone's heart operation 100km away from me. So what if my taxes were used to build a road to a place with only one house. A nation where an ambulance can't be at any house within minutes is not modern and not civilized. Enforced solidarity ensures that.

I'm a one response away from having to apologise to Jim and Steve in the evening about the infractions that I'll get from being honest about you.
So I'll just ignore.

[Wolferz]

I don't know about Europe and it's taxes but, here in the states, we were all sold into slavery back in 1903 when the big banks and the banksters that run/own them got their way in the creation of the Federal Reserve bank and instituted the Income tax to guarantee the government payment of interest on the money it borrows from these banksters to operate with.
The banksters get rich and the rest of us get screwed every April since.:stare:

[Jimbuna]

I don't know about Europe and it's taxes but, here in the states, we were all sold into slavery back in 1903 when the big banks and the banksters that run/own them got their way in the creation of the Federal Reserve bank and instituted the Income tax to guarantee the government payment of interest on the money it borrows from these banksters to operate with.
The banksters get rich and the rest of us get screwed every April since.:stare:

And here was me thinking we made you all free when we gave you back our colony :hmmm:

[Skybird]

Then drag yourself into a little hole and be alone and angry there.

Enforced solidarity helped me, my family and most of the people I know so I really don't care about if it's voluntary or not. No one got killed paying those taxes.
But you know when people would die ?? When un-enforced solidarity would be in place. Especially in a nation as cold-hearted and egotistical as Slovenia. You think people would line the tax office with money to ''donate'' to the healthcare system. They wouldn't give a cent and people would die because of it. And in the end they themselves would die because they wouldn't be able to afford it.

So what if my insurance was used to pay for someone's heart operation 100km away from me. So what if my taxes were used to build a road to a place with only one house. A nation where an ambulance can't be at any house within minutes is not modern and not civilized. Enforced solidarity ensures that.

I'm a one response away from having to apologise to Jim and Steve in the evening about the infractions that I'll get from being honest about you.
So I'll just ignore.
There is a logical fallacy. There is no such thing like "enforced solidarity".

Regartding yourself, you can asdk other peopel for help. Your friends, family, for example, that would come to mind first. Before we had this modern madness (that ahs beocme totally unmaintaianble now, and creates costs we cannot afford and raises our debts!!!), people used to take more care for each other. You also can found fincing on dionations, olike they use to do it in the Us ver ymuch. In many cultures and societies, voluntary donation is seen as morally desirable, is even favoured by religions. But the state doie snto want that to be in pirvate intiiave, but wants to enforce it mandatorily - via the state. Becasue else the state would noit be needed, and all those bureaucrats workjing in stat5e service would not be payed anymore.

A simple math excercise for you.

In Germany, state spending on social issues has increased by a factor of 19 in the 4 decades from 1960 to 2000. At the end of that time era, over one third of the state budget was spend for the "social sector". Who benefited from that? In 2000, at best one in twenty persons was really depending and was really poor in Germany, needing to get support from state-driven social programs, around 4 million people. One third of the state budget translates into over 1.2 trillion bucks. That would have meant that each of the depending social net receivers would have been paid 300,000 thousands bucks per year! Obviously that has not happened! NMo social wellfare receiver ever gets 300,000 per year. He may get let'S say 15,000 per year. Makes a difference of 285,000. and here is the question for you:

Where has that money gone?

You should know that estimations are that in 2000, for every socially depending person there may have been 10-15 persons in adminstration who spoend their working timwe with amdinstrating and channeling the 15000 bucks to the net receiver. These people all wanted to get payed for their organsdartion service. The offices need to be payed for, the maintenance costs need to be made straight. Ministries have more staff working over these issues, they ll want their privileges and limousines, careers in politics base on having a function in the social field.

In other words, of the 300,000 bucks for single receiver, 285 thousand get sucked up by the system, and 15,000 ends up to actually getting spend on the individual in question.

Any company or insurance doing business like this, would be mauled at the end of the first quarter already, and would be trialed. The state does not get trialed, because he has a monopolised status that he has claimed for himself and secured by making legislation and laws supporting his monopolised status.

the same service on social issues could be had much cheaper. Estimations are that when you donate money to an organisation busy in charity or protection of nature, good management could reduce administrative costs to around 10% of the money they collect, that means of one dollar you donate, 10 cents get spend for the internal buraucracy, and 90 cents end up ina tually being used for social aid or environment protection measurements. Obviously the state cannot compete here, of one dollar you give him, he spends 95 cents on internal bureaucracy, and jst 5 cents on the issue the money was collected for.

Why is the state still in business then? Because he is a monopolist. He does the worst quality in service, and charges many many times more in fees for providing that service. Competent management means one tenth of the funds get consumed for administration. State management means 95% opf funds get spend for administration.

Grewat show! And people are asking why states de facto are bancrupt and only carry on by criminal cheats and tricks that are nothing else than punishable-by law delaying of filling of insolvency...?

What people have forgotten is that you cannot spend more than you can afford, and when you spend more than you have, sooner or later you get a problem and end up crashing with your head against a wall that is harder than your skull. That crash is not too far away anymore. Until it makes Wham!, the paraitical prfiteers of the system will do all they can to suck up more welath rom porivate property that is not theirs, thy will steal and lie and loot and enforce and suprerss increasingly, that is the nature of socialism. Socialiost econoimic thoery is the thoery of plundering and looting, and giving the state the monopole in legalising himself to do all that.

You know why people allow this disaster to unfold? Because they got bribed and trained and brainwashed not to know the nature of money, and not to value the value of material value anymore. People have learned that wealth comes form money printers, indefinetely, and that the majority has the right to steal and plunder form a minority, which explains sufficiently the essence of democracy. And that si why I and others say: democracy always and unavoidably must lead to and end in socialism, which always is totalitarian and tyrannic.

"Enforced solidarity...?" Illogical. Impossible. Immoral and totalitarian.Corruption or collaboration or pressure, never should be mistaken with "solidarity", the many people in Eastgermany or Nazigermany suffering from the regimes, or living silent and anxious in order to not attract unwanted attention, did so not because they were solidaric with the regime'S policy. They bowed under the pressure applied to them.

The paper money system will collapse (which is good, even when it will mean disaster, but it is a needed, hurting correction), and the wealth and culture of the West will collapse as well. And it is self-made and well-deserved, I say. I have reached a point in my life where I watch it unfolding in cold blood, and with absolutely no mercy with the ordinary population.The only innocent victims in this, are the little children. All others are accomplices in crime already, some more, some less. The consequences of what we were willing to let the elites do to us, will find us, and then will, crush us. And we deserve it.

[Skybird]

Thanks to mapuc I learned about this news site, and found this article there:

LINK - 18 Stats That Prove That Government Dependence Has Reached Epidemic Levels (http://www.pakalertpress.com/2014/04/19/18-stats-that-prove-that-government-dependence-has-reached-epidemic-levels/)

They give a list of 18 items that are worth to be taken note of. Each includes a link to the original news source.

It illustrates my argument that the insane polciies of democratic states lead to a situation where more and more dpeneding people get artifically created - and few and fewer people most shoulder higher and higher costs to finance them with their work. Also, my argument was and is that growing social policies discourage self-responsibility and invite people to trade freedom for material benefits that got stolen from others before.

There are more and more wolves, and few and fewer lambs.

One wonders what will happen when the wolves run out of lambs.

[Wolferz]

They don't pay their taxes and get bonuses.:stare:
http://news.msn.com/us/irs-awards-bonuses-to-1100-who-owe-back-taxes

[em2nought]

They don't pay their taxes and get bonuses.:stare:
http://news.msn.com/us/irs-awards-bonuses-to-1100-who-owe-back-taxes

...and the BLM doesn't shoot them either. :D