Granville Freighter vs Medium Cargo Tonnage

[Aras]

Medium Cargo's length is longer than Granville Freighter. Medium Cargo's (9.9 m) draft is deeper then Granville Freighter(6.1 m). So anyone knows how these two ships are more or less equal in tonnage ? Shouldn’t a Medium Cargo weight heavier and carry more goods ?

[GJO]

I am guessing that the tonnages are based on real ships SS Granville was smaller than the average C2 Cargo ship that I guess is the basis for the Medium Cargo but in such a large group the GRT would be expected to vary.

[TECHNICOLOR]

And you should mention that a Granville can be sunk with one torpedo and a medium cargo needs 2 to go down,for about the same tonnage

[banryu79]

... since awhile I'm wondering about the differences among the Freighter / Cargo / Merchant ship classes.
What is that differentiate them so much to justify the different class designation? :06:
What is the specific purpose/function of each one?

[GJO]

They are all targets . . .

[Aras]

And you should mention that a Granville can be sunk with one torpedo and a medium cargo needs 2 to go down,for about the same tonnage

Yes. That’s the point. I don’t want to waste 2 torpedoes for a 4,5 t vessel. I rather prefer 1 Torpedo + Gunfire it.

[Paulebaer1979]

They are all targets . . .

:salute: Roger that :salute:

[banryu79]

... since awhile I'm wondering about the differences among the Freighter / Cargo / Merchant ship classes.
What is that differentiate them so much to justify the different class designation? :06:
What is the specific purpose/function of each one?
In RL I meant. Not in the game :haha:

[Jimbuna]

In RL I meant. Not in the game :haha:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_C2_ship

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Granville_S._Hall_(YAG-40)

[GJO]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_C2_ship

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Granville_S._Hall_(YAG-40)

The USS Granville S Hall was built in late 1944 as a 'Liberty Ship' with a displacement of 11,600 tons - I think the 'Granville' in the game is based on SS Granville of 4,103 tons that was built in 1913 and sunk by U-338 on 12 March 1943.

[Sailor Steve]

The USS Granville S Hall was built in late 1944 as a 'Liberty Ship' with a displacement of 11,600 tons - I think the 'Granville' in the game is based on SS Granville of 4,103 tons that was built in 1913 and sunk by U-338 on 12 March 1943.
Exactly what I was going to say.
http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?15852

[Jimbuna]

The USS Granville S Hall was built in late 1944 as a 'Liberty Ship' with a displacement of 11,600 tons - I think the 'Granville' in the game is based on SS Granville of 4,103 tons that was built in 1913 and sunk by U-338 on 12 March 1943.

Wrong link, you are quite correct, my bad :oops:

[CaptBones]

Let's also not forget that in the game (and in real life) merchant vessels were not measured in displacement, but in Gross Registered Tons (GRT) or British Registered Tons (BRT). The registered ton is the cargo carrying capacity measured in cubic feet (100cuft = 1 ton) and can vary widely (and wildly) between ships of similar size and hull form. The cargo capacity of a passenger/cargo ship is very different from a general cargo ship or a dry-bulk carrier or a liquid-bulk carrier, even if they all have the same length between perpendiculars, the same beam, the same molded depth, and the same draft. For instance, a mass of human cargo and mail requires much, much, more volume than the same mass of crude oil, or raw iron ore, or bagged wheat flour, or trucks and airplane components, etc., etc.

In practice the cubic cargo capacity of a given vessel could also produce a different draft/displacement, depending on what is the cargo. That's the reason load limits are painted on the hull, in the form of the Plimsoll mark. No matter what you're carrying, you can only load as much as it takes to bring your draft, and hence your displacement, up (or is it down?) to the maximum seasonal mark on the hull.

Enough of that...but just for the fun of it, I also wanted to remark regarding the '2 torpedoes to sink a C2' comment. I almost never need more than one torpedo to sink any merchant ship...accurate placement of the "eel" in a critical location works every time, even if it takes an hour or so for the ship to take her plunge..."one torpedo, one ship."

Here's a couple of tricks I learned and used in real life that seem to work well in the game, for me at least...when using a magnetic pistol (influence detonator), make your point of aim amidships, but fire the shot to hit the target (well, pass under it, actually) at an oblique angle. When using an impact pistol (contact detonator) make your aim point anywhere but amidships (directly under a mast or Kingpost, or right ahead of the bridge seems best) and be sure you get as close as possible to a 90deg weapon track to the target (torpedo hits at a right angle to the hull). It should be noted though; for a time, the real world U-Boat commanders' experiences with the impact pistols were totally the opposite. The better the weapon solution, the more likely the pistol was to fail. In addition to the other failure modes, a "perfect" 90deg impact angle would result in the inertial firing mechanism failing, getting crushed instead of detonating the warhead. That was also exactly the opposite of the early-war problem the US Navy experienced with its contact detonators. Anyway...good hunting everyone, sink 'em all!

[Jimbuna]

http://s30.postimg.org/4cwhlbztp/Page_1_shipchart.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/4cwhlbztp/)

http://s30.postimg.org/umhk44lr1/Page_2_shipchart.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/umhk44lr1/)

[CaptBones]

I knew if anybody had that chart at their fingertips, it'd be the COB! :salute:

Thanks Jimbuna...been looking for it for two days and couldn't remember where in the deuce it was.

[Jimbuna]

I knew if anybody had that chart at their fingertips, it'd be the COB! :salute:

Thanks Jimbuna...been looking for it for two days and couldn't remember where in the deuce it was.

SINK EM ALL!! http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8636/cdw.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/cdw.gif/)

[banryu79]

Thank you CaptBones for the informative post :)


Here's a couple of tricks I learned and used in real life that seem to work well in the game, for me at least...when using a magnetic pistol (influence detonator), make your point of aim amidships, but fire the shot to hit the target (well, pass under it, actually) at an oblique angle. When using an impact pistol (contact detonator) make your aim point anywhere but amidships (directly under a mast or Kingpost, or right ahead of the bridge seems best) and be sure you get as close as possible to a 90deg weapon track to the target (torpedo hits at a right angle to the hull). It should be noted though; for a time, the real world U-Boat commanders' experiences with the impact pistols were totally the opposite. The better the weapon solution, the more likely the pistol was to fail. In addition to the other failure modes, a "perfect" 90deg impact angle would result in the inertial firing mechanism failing, getting crushed instead of detonating the warhead. That was also exactly the opposite of the early-war problem the US Navy experienced with its contact detonators. Anyway...good hunting everyone, sink 'em all!
Intresting. I don't remember where, but I red that US Skippers where taught to fire (for contact detonations) with an AOB of 80° or 110° and not the usual 90°.

Anyway, about nice spots to aim your eels, I found this page very useful: Ship Weak Spots (http://web.archive.org/web/20071015054206/http://mysh3.info/shiii/index.php?title=Ship_Weak_Spots)

[Sailor Steve]

Intresting. I don't remember where, but I red that US Skippers where taught to fire (for contact detonations) with an AOB of 80° or 110° and not the usual 90°.
German torpedoes had a contact detonator that would slide directly into the tube it was mounted in and set the torpedo off. If it struck at an angle it could bend, thereby not detonating.

US torpedoes had the opposite problem. The firing pin had guides to keep it steady. The force of the torpedo hitting the target was too strong for the spring to handle, and the guides would bend. When striking at an angle the force was lessened, and the guides kept the pin steady.
http://www.military.com/Content/MoreContent?file=PRtorpedo2

[banryu79]

German torpedoes had a contact detonator that would slide directly into the tube it was mounted in and set the torpedo off. If it struck at an angle it could bend, thereby not detonating.

US torpedoes had the opposite problem. The firing pin had guides to keep it steady. The force of the torpedo hitting the target was too strong for the spring to handle, and the guides would bend. When striking at an angle the force was lessened, and the guides kept the pin steady.
http://www.military.com/Content/MoreContent?file=PRtorpedo2
Hey Sailor Steve, thanks for the info! :salute:
Now I remeber where I red that thing about preferred torpedo firing AOB, it was mentioned in the Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual doc at hnsa.org.
But you explained the ratio behind it that I didn't know: many thanks :yeah: