What type of fighter jets should we choose ?

[mapuc]

Denmark are about to make a decision on their next generation of Fighter Jets to the Danish Airforce.

The backbone in the Danish airforce F-16 has served Denmark since the late 70s and now it's time to send this aircraft at the museum. Therefore, Denmark needs a new fighter jets to replace it.

Denmark has selected four candidates. they are:

Boeing F/A-18F Super Hornet one or two-seat, do not know which.

Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II one or two-seat do not know which.

Saab JAS 39 Gripen E / F (Next Generation) same here

Eurofighter Typhoon

All of the above aircraft has its advantages and disadvantage.

Well I do not have to be the one to choose. I have chosen my favorite aircraft F/A-18.

So what planes do you think Denmark should choose?

Markus

[Mittelwaechter]

A European one of course.

Make a compensation deal. You're digging a tunnel to Sweden iirc. They will come for booze I guess.
Charge them with a fee and they'll pay the Gripens for you. :)

[TarJak]

ones with big guns.

And lazers!

pew pew!:ping:

[Skybird]

For Denmark, the Gripen sounds ideal in ability and costs. However, squeeze a good deal out of the Swedes, the plane is not the newest anymore.

F-35 and Eurofighters are too expensive for what they offer. The Superhornet also would be a good choice, but the Gripen probably can be had cheaper. However, for long range operations over water, the Hornet might be better than the Gripen, I'm not sure: longer legs, or am I mistaken? Thinking about the Faroer Islands.

Or forget fighters completely, and go for drones. Its only a question of time until drones no longer just maverick ground targets, but start shooting stuff out of the sky as well.

[krashkart]

I highly recommend the F-35. Somebody's got to help us pay for that flying metal coprolite. :03::D

[TarJak]

OK being serious. They are all too expensive and don't work properly for what you need. Drones is the way to go. Cheaper, less risk to losing pilots yadda yadda.

[Admiral Halsey]

OK being serious. They are all too expensive and don't work properly for what you need. Drones is the way to go. Cheaper, less risk to losing pilots yadda yadda.

You want a cheap and proven fighter? Then start building these





http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/P-51-361.jpg

[krashkart]

You want a cheap and proven fighter? Then start building these





http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/P-51-361.jpg

Nostalgia is good and all, but... :)

[Admiral Halsey]

Nostalgia is good and all, but... :)
.
True it may not be as fast as modern jets but how well could a heat seeking missile track them? After all its got no jet exhaust

[Herr-Berbunch]

Anything but F-35, prove to the world that Denmark isn't as gullible as the rest of us.

[Oberon]

Go with what we should have, the Hornet. It's cheaper, but still a very potent weapon. The Eurofighter is a good bird, but too expensive for what you need, and the less said about the F35 the better. The Gripen is good though, and you might be able to haggle the price down with the Swedes, but ultimately the F-18E/F is a tried and tested bird, and probably the best bang per buck out of the four.

Of course, drones are the next big thing, so getting ahead of the curve might pay off but then you've got to consider the cut back in staffing that drones would represent and factor that into Denmarks unemployment rate, so politically it makes more sense to buy manned aircraft than to go drone...at this time.

[Jimbuna]

Any of them at the right price apart from the F35.

[Wolferz]

How about a squadron of those Iranian stealth fighters?
All you'll need to do is learn the catch phrases for weapon deployment.

"Allah hu Akbar!" WOOSH!...... BOOM!:O:
Great yuyulation!

[Jimbuna]

http://s29.postimg.org/k1eocyivb/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[Wolferz]

^^
Wonder Woman called. Need I say more?:O:

[Jimbuna]

http://s21.postimg.org/r9pmli4nb/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[Wolferz]

OMG!!!
You Basum!!!:dead:
My EYES My EYES!!!!

[mapuc]

Thank you for your reply, even the funny ones they gave me a good laugh.

As I said, it's best it isn't me who's going to make this decision.

Day before yesterday DoD program office sends out "Request for Binding Information"
to the four participating manufacturers
The decision will be made medio 2015 and expected arrival of first fighter plane about 2020.

Have been reading many of the comment's on the Danish homepage "Nytkampfly.dk" = new combat aircraft

Many say that the F-35 is so expensive Denmark wouldn't have enough money to have them. Advanced fighter indeed, but to expensive.



Markus

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Denmark are about to make a decision on their next generation of Fighter Jets to the Danish Airforce.

The backbone in the Danish airforce F-16 has served Denmark since the late 70s and now it's time to send this aircraft at the museum. Therefore, Denmark needs a new fighter jets to replace it.Nothing wrong in F-16. I would have considered modern variant (F-16E/F Block 60 or later) as good (relatively) low cost alternative option. As you have already decided thats not good for you...

Boeing F/A-18F Super Hornet one or two-seat, do not know which.This my favourite. I would buy combination of single seat F/A-18Es and two seat F/A-18Fs. Single seaters would be used for air superiority etc. missions while two seaters would handle strike missions or ofcourse you could buy all single or two seater fleet aswell. Advantage of this aircraft is that you could order F/A-18Fs with Growler wiring preinstalled as Australians did. This would allow upgrading some airframes to EA-18G Growler electronic warfare aircraft when needed/funds are available.

Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II one or two-seat do not know which.There are three variants available of which none has two seats. These are:
F-35A Air Force CTOL variant
F-35B Marine's STOVL variant and
F-35C Navy's CATOBAR variant
Although F-35 may eventually become great fighter its simply far too expensive. What will you do with aircraft you can't afford to lose?

Saab JAS 39 Gripen E / F (Next Generation) same hereSecond best option in my opinion. Affordable aircraft with reasonable performance.

Eurofighter TyphoonGood aircraft but a bit pricy. If you decide you really need two engine aircraft then this is good option.

I highly recommend the F-35. Somebody's got to help us pay for that flying metal coprolite. :03::DOh the joys of corporate wellf... ehh investments to sustain industrial base! :D

[Wolferz]

America's military industrial complex thanks you for your support.:up:

Free floor mats with every unit purchased.:yep:

[Jimbuna]

They buy the F35 and they'll not have anything left to purchase the fuel needed :)

[vanjast]

funny how no one has mentioned this..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA

:03:

[Stealhead]

.
True it may not be as fast as modern jets but how well could a heat seeking missile track them? After all its got no jet exhaust

Very easily actually a heat seeking missile sees a difference in infrared signatures anything that produces heat above the atmospheric temperatures can be seen.Modern IR can even lock onto the heat signature of the friction of airflow across the fuselage.

Heck the early AIM-9 and AIM-4 very often took down remote flown WWII stock a modern IR missile would have a much easier time.Some US drones have been killed by Taliban using MANPADS it just does not make the news and they have a lower IR signature than a P-51.

The appearance of the SA-7 in Vietnam in 1971 put a fairly rapid end to the career of the A-1.

[Jimbuna]

funny how no one has mentioned this..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA

:03:

Most likely because the winning candidate will be announced mid 2015 and the Sukhoi is not expected to become operational in Russia until a year later.

[Oberon]

Most likely because the winning candidate will be announced mid 2015 and the Sukhoi is not expected to become operational in Russia until a year later.

That and I can't see a member of NATO buying anything Russian in the current climate... :03:

[Jimbuna]

That and I can't see a member of NATO buying anything Russian in the current climate... :03:

Oh I don't know...I hear the Russians have some Ukrainian aircraft going for a bargain basement price :hmmm:

[Wolferz]

I think you'd be better off spending the money on anything other than fancy military hardware.

[nikimcbee]

That and I can't see a member of NATO buying anything Russian in the current climate... :03:

...so I guess buying MiG-21s is out then?

[nikimcbee]

America's military industrial complex thanks you for your support.:up:

Free floor mats with every unit purchased.:yep:

:haha::haha::haha:
Is there a discount if we buy in bulk? Does Costco carry them?:/\\k:

[Wolferz]

:haha::haha::haha:
Is there a discount if we buy in bulk? Does Costco carry them?:/\\k:

Only on the website to be delivered from the warehouse. If you wish to discuss a bulk rate purchase, call 1-800 COSTCO:D

[Aktungbby]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/16/us-f35-fighter-jet-approves-transatlantic-flight (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/16/us-f35-fighter-jet-approves-transatlantic-flight) Get over to Britain in July and determine firsthand; With an uppity Soviet rebuilding current, maybe the expense and "who we fightin'" issues are up for re-examination! this bad boy is scheduled for the London RIAT and Farborough, England airshows! Good for the economy indeed if nothing el$e! http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/4/16/1397666364829/5e4f813a-2adc-4295-8b59-a91e7023bb79-460x276.jpeg

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/16/us-f35-fighter-jet-approves-transatlantic-flight (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/16/us-f35-fighter-jet-approves-transatlantic-flight) Get over to Britain in July and determine firsthand; With an uppity Soviet rebuilding current, maybe the expense and "who we fightin'" issues are up for re-examination! this bad boy is scheduled for the London RIAT and Farborough, England airshows! Good for the economy indeed if nothing el$e! http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/4/16/1397666364829/5e4f813a-2adc-4295-8b59-a91e7023bb79-460x276.jpeg If they can cut its price tremendously then ofcourse that may eventually be worth purchasing but again what will you do with aircraft you can't afford to lose? If premise is that none will be lost then I'm sure there will very ugly wake up call inbound. Remember F-117 over Serbia? :hmmm:

[krashkart]

Oh the joys of corporate wellf... ehh investments to sustain industrial base! :D

Investment. Yes. That's it! Investment. It is an investment in Denmark's future. That's how we'll sell it! http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=258&pictureid=5374 :haha:

[mapuc]

Investment. Yes. That's it! Investment. It is an investment in Denmark's future. That's how we'll sell it! http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=258&pictureid=5374 :haha:


And that's the problem that our politicians are just like you, and me susceptible to commercial jipp japp. ending up buying something that would cost Denmark a whole lot more than expected

A perfect example is our famous IC4 train.

Markus

[Schroeder]

If you're looking for a two engined bargain fighter we just retired our F4 Phantom II fleet.:D

[mapuc]

If you're looking for a two engined bargain fighter we just retired our F4 Phantom II fleet.:D


That's the problem with one of the candidate-the F/A-18 by the time the first plane arrives in Denmark about 2020 the F/A-18 would have been in service for a very long time and I guess it will be singing it's last line in the USA's defense

The F/A 18 is of course a well proved plane no more child sickness a.s.o.

Remember the candidate to the danish Airforce's F-16 is to be the next backbone for about 40-50 years. Counting from 2020. The first F-16 arrived in Denmark in 1980.


Markus

[Wolferz]

Oh the problems of wanting air superiority.

I hear Germany has a great deal on some surplus V-2 rockets and Komets.:up:

[Jimbuna]

That's the problem with one of the candidate-the F/A-18 by the time the first plane arrives in Denmark about 2020 the F/A-18 would have been in service for a very long time and I guess it will be singing it's last line in the USA's defense

The F/A 18 is of course a well proved plane no more child sickness a.s.o.

Remember the candidate to the danish Airforce's F-16 is to be the next backbone for about 40-50 years. Counting from 2020. The first F-16 arrived in Denmark in 1980.


Markus

Depending how near to the F35 I can get this year I'll let you know what it's like :)

[Schroeder]

Oh the problems of wanting air superiority.

I hear Germany has a great deal on some surplus V-2 rockets
I wasn't aware one could achieve air superiority with a ground to ground missile...:hmm2:

@Mapuc

well, you should take our Phantoms. The enemy isn't allowed to shoot at them anymore as they are now historical aircraft and could become part of the world technological heritage protected by the UN.:yeah:
:D

[Oberon]

I wasn't aware one could achieve air superiority with a ground to ground missile...:hmm2:

Hit the airfields. :03:

[Jimbuna]

I wasn't aware one could achieve air superiority with a ground to ground missile...:hmm2:

@Mapuc

well, you should take our Phantoms. The enemy isn't allowed to shoot at them anymore as they are now historical aircraft and could become part of the world technological heritage protected by the UN.:yeah:
:D

Can't be many countries still flying them...Greece and Turkey are the only countries that immediately spring to mind, possibly South Korea as well :hmmm:

[Schroeder]

Can't be many countries still flying them...Greece and Turkey are the only countries that immediately spring to mind, possibly South Korea as well :hmmm:
Iran...

[Jimbuna]

Iran...

Yeah...forgot about them :yep:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Depending how near to the F35 I can get this year I'll let you know what it's like :)Aircraft missing in the Royal International Air Tattoo

21 July 2014 at 11:00 GMT

GLOUCESTERSHIRE The Royal International Air Tattoo held yearly in RAF Fairford in Gloucestershire has taken unexpected turn. Reportedly at or shortly after midnight on Saturday 19 July United States Air Force fighter jet went missing. Aircraft - an Lockheed Martin F-35A Ligthning II - was last seen in its hangar by maintenance personel. Guard noticed disappearance at early morning hours. United States Air Force has declined to comment citing national security concerns. Gloucestershire Constabulary is looking for information on middle aged Geordie male seen in area with diecast Spitfire...:03:

:D

[Jimbuna]

^:har:

Post of the day :sunny:

[Aktungbby]

Had to shift all the Newcastle Brown Ale:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up::Kaleun_Party: for this puppy!:Kaleun_Cheers:http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/07/20/article-1201018-05C6BA7D000005DC-443_634x443.jpg

[Wolferz]

That doesn't really work, aktungbby. The canopy is higher than the door.:doh: Ruining the illusion.:O:

[Wolferz]

I wasn't aware one could achieve air superiority with a ground to ground missile...:hmm2:

@Mapuc

well, you should take our Phantoms. The enemy isn't allowed to shoot at them anymore as they are now historical aircraft and could become part of the world technological heritage protected by the UN.:yeah:
:D

The V-2's would work quite well if the enemy's airfield was the primary target.:up::O: Pre-emptive striking keeps your skies and their runways clear. Except for those huge craters!:haha:

[Jimbuna]

A bit OT but this would be my choice...

http://s27.postimg.org/5tdn6pt37/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[mapuc]

^ that F1 car with an F-35 engine - a good combination

Markus

[Aktungbby]

That doesn't really work, aktungbby. The canopy is higher than the door. Ruining the illusion.Indeed: all illusions are eventually ruined by definition-Reality Sucks; However, having carefully perused Jimbuna's garage: Gear loading:

The choice of the main wheel tires is made on the basis of the static loading case. The total main gear load http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/f/9/b/f9b8436d6d1568684c9a3ffce5c7c8be.png is calculated assuming that the aircraft is taxiing at low speed (being pushed by hand:O:) without braking:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/c/6/8/c6804526be00fbfb765d123d54e05f16.png where http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/6/1/e/61e9c06ea9a85a5088a499df6458d276.png is the weight of the aircraft and http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/e/e/a/eeae6746c1cf4188d753932ef7e300d5.png and http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/9/9/b99fbb03a4970e0373c48eab48d82f8f.png are the distance measured from the aircraft's cg to the main and nose gear, respectively.
The choice of the nose wheel tires is based on the nose wheel load http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/3/4/e/34e82b663aebc6b184ac28f8b755c78a.png during braking at maximum effort:http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/1/b/9/1b99a16f9963a257eb7443180fd2626e.png where http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/d/2/0/d20caec3b48a1eef164cb4ca81ba2587.png is the lift, http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/f/6/2/f623e75af30e62bbd73d6df5b50bb7b5.png is the drag, http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/9/e/b9ece18c950afbfa6b0fdbfa4ff731d3.png is the thrust, and http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/c/5/0c55faee768c83e321c2f17af5b856e9.png is the height of aircraft cg from the static groundline. Typical values for http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/1/3/7132fe975a717eeb617c50d5509475e5.png on dry concrete vary from 0.35 for a simple brake system to 0.45 for an automatic brake pressure control system. As both http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/d/2/0/d20caec3b48a1eef164cb4ca81ba2587.png and http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/f/6/2/f623e75af30e62bbd73d6df5b50bb7b5.png are positive, the maximum nose gear load occurs at low speed. Reverse thrust decreases the nose gear load, and hence the condition http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/a/b/c/abcf4d55557aebef87c9c0add3a78758.png results in the maximum value:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/1/6/4/164815331152532d8d2f13b4045dfc96.png To ensure that the rated loads will not be exceeded in the static and braking conditions, a seven percent safety factor is used in the calculation of the applied loads...and have concluded that clamping on the shocks and temporarily bleeding 8lbs of air from the nose wheel will get it done! Or hang two 50 gallon barrels of Newcastle Brown Ale from the pointy end...!!!:har:

A bit OT but this would be my choice...

http://s27.postimg.org/5tdn6pt37/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/) A modest upgrade SIRE http://buyersguide.caranddriver.com/media/assets/submodel/4894.jpg$2.5 million and 200 mph. Blond not included...#1 on my bucket list! Bugatti Veyron!

[Wolferz]

I bet Jim would prefer a Prius. :D:O:
Powder blue in color.:har:

[mapuc]

Taking a little trip back on track for a moment

A poll on TV2's website showed the following:

F-35 clearly Danish favorite

With almost 40 percent of the vote, the F-35 Danish clearly the favorite to become our new combat aircraft. At least among the nearly 5,000 Danes who from Tuesday evening to Sunday evening had voted on TV2's website linked to an article on fighting aircraft purchase

The article doesn't say anything about the knowledge on these 40 %

Markus

[Schroeder]

Taking a little trip back on track for a moment

A poll on TV2's website showed the following:

F-35 clearly Danish favorite

With almost 40 percent of the vote, the F-35 Danish clearly the favorite to become our new combat aircraft. At least among the nearly 5,000 Danes who from Tuesday evening to Sunday evening had voted on TV2's website linked to an article on fighting aircraft purchase

The article doesn't say anything about the knowledge on these 40 %

Markus
That's why I'm against referendums. Too many people have no bloody clue about what they are actually voting on and the consequences of their votes.:nope:

[mapuc]

That's why I'm against referendums. Too many people have no bloody clue about what they are actually voting on and the consequences of their votes.:nope:

I agree 100 % It is however just some kind of "if-you-was-the MoD" poll not some kind of election.

I could have read all the information wrong. If I haven't then this F-35 is going to be a very expensive fighterplane for the danish economy.

Markus

[Wolferz]

I agree 100 % It is however just some kind of "if-you-was-the MoD" poll not some kind of election.

I could have read all the information wrong. If I haven't then this F-35 is going to be a very expensive fighterplane for the danish economy.

Markus
I hope you folks have lots of gold.:salute:

[Schroeder]

I agree 100 % It is however just some kind of "if-you-was-the MoD" poll not some kind of election.

Yes, I know it's just that a lot of people and some parties over here want more direct referendums for the people on certain things and when I see the results of polls like the one you mentioned then I'm always reminded why I'm against that. I might be for it if they add a rule that everybody must pass a test before voting to prove that he/she actually knows what he/she's voting on and the possible consequences.

[Jimbuna]

I bet Jim would prefer a Prius. :D:O:
Powder blue in color.:har:

If it comes with a brunette then...that'll do nice3ly :)

[Jimbuna]

Taking a little trip back on track for a moment

A poll on TV2's website showed the following:

F-35 clearly Danish favorite

With almost 40 percent of the vote, the F-35 Danish clearly the favorite to become our new combat aircraft. At least among the nearly 5,000 Danes who from Tuesday evening to Sunday evening had voted on TV2's website linked to an article on fighting aircraft purchase

The article doesn't say anything about the knowledge on these 40 %

Markus

The thing is, forget about the price a moment, if your country is after something that is relatively future proof atm then the F35 is probably the best choice.

Personally, I still think the Euorofighter would be the next best choice, especially when comparing costs but at the end of the day it is all down to the cost v capability requirements.