IJN BBs visual contact range??

[LCQ_SH]

Does anybody know the maximum range in which a BB can make visual contact? :timeout:

I am asking because right now I am in Dec 1941 intercepting an IJN Task Force heading to Borneo. I am 12km away from them........they are going at high speed (so no sonar could have spot me, thinking in a correct simulation of escorts sensors, and no radar available in that time (if it were, my signal would be very week I guess...) so why I'm being spotted from so far?? :hmmm: Anybody?

Using TMO, RSRD for TMO and traveller 2.6

Greetings! :salute:

[TabbyHunter]

From what I know of TMO,...it boosts the IJN's ability to detect you to an insane extent......Atleast I think it was TMO.....SH4 Supermods confuse me. My suggestion, keep a range of them being over the horizon and try to get ahead of them. Submerge, silent running, ect ect and pick your targets when they come to you.

[Admiral Halsey]

Well it depends on a lot of factors really. Your subs speed, time of day, weather etc. Rule of thumb is don't let them get closer then 10 miles or so during the day and no closer then 7 at night before submerging.

[BigWalleye]

You don't mention whether you were surfaced or submerged. If surfaced, then sighting at a range of 6 nm from the top of a 12-story building in tropical summer visibility isn't too surprising. Even at night, if your were traveling on the surface at high speed, lookouts well-trained in night operations and equipped with arguably the best night-vision optics available at the time might spot you at that range. It's not implausible.

But, if you were submerged, just chalk it up to TMO. TMO is not about realism in a physical sense. To loosely paraphrase Ducimus, it's about making the player feel a historically appropriate sense of risk and uncertainty. In no way should you expect the IJN in TMO to be limited by what is physically possible. If you want physical realism, try RFB, although RFB is an orphan and hasn't been updated since 2010. But in RFB, 'tis said, you begin knowing too much from history, like that IJN depth changes never were set deep in the early war. YMMV.

[Admiral Halsey]

Actually RSRD undoes a decent bit of the stuff the TMO did to the destroyers and planes.

[Sniper297]

"I am 12km away from them"

That's why they're picking on you, using them heathen infidel metric kilometers instead of honest yards and nautical miles in 1941. :03:

[merc4ulfate]

I have read war reports from sub skippers on the allied side who were spoted at 10,000 yards.

[TorpX]

12 km is only about 6.5 nm., and this is not an implausible figure. Especially, if it was a clear day, and you were going fast.

[merc4ulfate]

... and the 10,000 yards was at night ...

[Admiral Halsey]

Spotting a sub in the dark at that distance was more of an exception then a rule. Plus a couple of those skippers thinking they were spotted might actually not have.

[Admiral8Q]

Does anyone have the link for RSRD for TMO?

[Admiral Halsey]

Does anyone have the link for RSRD for TMO?
Here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1414 and the patch to fix the campaign layers here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1459

[Admiral8Q]

Admiral Halsey, thanks for the quick reply! This works with TMO 2.5 I'm assuming?

[Admiral Halsey]

Admiral Halsey, thanks for the quick reply! This works with TMO 2.5 I'm assuming?

Yep. If you ever want to mess around with Real Fleet Boat there is also a version for that as well.(I don't use RFB for anything other then the Los Angeles 668 mod that also works with the RFB compatible version of RSRD.)

[Admiral8Q]

Yep. If you ever want to mess around with Real Fleet Boat there is also a version for that as well.(I don't use RFB for anything other then the Los Angeles 668 mod that also works with the RFB compatible version of RSRD.)

Cheers! :()1:
I played RFB, a good mod, but I need more challenge. That's why I prefer TMO. If I sink one merchie with 4 torps, and survive to tell about it, I'm happy. :03:

You wouldn't happen to know where the war-time gramophone mod is linked, would you? The one with the songs like "Good Bye Mamma" and "In the Fuehrer's Face"? :06:

[Admiral Halsey]

Cheers! :()1:
I played RFB, a good mod, but I need more challenge. That's why I prefer TMO. If I sink one merchie with 4 torps, and survive to tell about it, I'm happy. :03:

You wouldn't happen to know where the war-time gramophone mod is linked, would you? The one with the songs like "Good Bye Mamma" and "In the Fuehrer's Face"? :06:

Saw that question on your post in GT. It's already installed in TMO with maybe a few extras. Was Abbott and Costello's "Who's on first?" sketch in that mod?

[Admiral8Q]

Saw that question on your post in GT. It's already installed in TMO with maybe a few extras. Was Abbott and Costello's "Who's on first?" sketch in that mod?

Yes it was! Hmm, maybe with this steam version of SH4 I have now, the mod isn't installed correctly. :-?

[Admiral Halsey]

Yes it was! Hmm, maybe with this steam version of SH4 I have now, the mod isn't installed correctly. :-?

You have the steam version? Do you also have the U-Boats expansion? You need to follow the instructions here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1265821&postcount=4 in order for JGSME to work with steam.(Ignore the TMO 1.9 stuff. While it's an older post it's still the same requirements to make it work with Steam.)

[Admiral8Q]

You have the steam version? Do you also have the U-Boats expansion? You need to follow the instructions here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1265821&postcount=4 in order for JGSME to work with steam.(Ignore the TMO 1.9 stuff. While it's an older post it's still the same requirements to make it work with Steam.)

Mods are working, took me awhile to find the right folder, but, nope, only the stock gramophone. I even got a radio mod that works.

[Admiral Halsey]

Mods are working, took me awhile to find the right folder, but, nope, only the stock gramophone. I even got a radio mod that works.

Strange. The added songs that TMO adds to the gramophone work just fine on mine. I honestly have no clue what's causing the problem. Me and Brother Bill should be the first thing playing when you click the gramophone.

[Armistead]

I don't recall the actual files, but probably in the Library...Each ship type gets a visual range, the higher the ship, the further it sees. Seems the BB had a unrealistic range in RSRD, they would often see you before escorts would on the perimeter. I know I toned them down a tad long ago for realistic night attacks.

Other factors do come into play such as speed, your sub profile, weather, crew ratings, etc..

[Admiral8Q]

Strange. The added songs that TMO adds to the gramophone work just fine on mine. I honestly have no clue what's causing the problem. Me and Brother Bill should be the first thing playing when you click the gramophone.

I just installed the U-boat add on. I've unloaded mods. I'll re-load and see if it works.

(No idea why I'm obsessed with the gramophone. Heh heh! Neal knows I was with music back in the SH2/DC days :smug: )

[Admiral Halsey]

I just installed the U-boat add on. I've unloaded mods. I'll re-load and see if it works.

(No idea why I'm obsessed with the gramophone. Heh heh! Neal knows I was with music back in the SH2/DC days :smug: )

So you had the mods installed before you installed the U-Boat add on? Well there's your problem. TMO 2.5 was made to work with the 1.5 version of SH4 and you could only get that by installing the U-boat add on.

[Admiral8Q]

So you had the mods installed before you installed the U-Boat add on? Well there's your problem. TMO 2.5 was made to work with the 1.5 version of SH4 and you could only get that by installing the U-boat add on.

I have the SH4 1.5 version, just bought the U-Boat expansion now. I'll see if that helps.

I really miss my boxed set cd versions. (Got stolen or destroyed when my place was ransacked/robbed a few years ago) Steam is a bit weird, but I'm starting to figure it out.

[Admiral8Q]

I don't recall the actual files, but probably in the Library...Each ship type gets a visual range, the higher the ship, the further it sees. Seems the BB had a unrealistic range in RSRD, they would often see you before escorts would on the perimeter. I know I toned them down a tad long ago for realistic night attacks.

Other factors do come into play such as speed, your sub profile, weather, crew ratings, etc..

Battleships were the enormous 'castles of the ocean' in their day. If they don't spot you at 6 miles, then there is something wrong with the deck-watch. Even at night they looked for an anomaly on the horizon.

[Admiral Halsey]

I have the SH4 1.5 version, just bought the U-Boat expansion now. I'll see if that helps.

I really miss my boxed set cd versions. (Got stolen or destroyed when my place was ransacked/robbed a few years ago) Steam is a bit weird, but I'm starting to figure it out.

Uhh I don't know how you got the 1.5 version from Steam without buying the U-Boat expansions. The Steam version is version 1.3. There has been several posts about that problem already.

[Admiral8Q]

Uhh I don't know how you got the 1.5 version from Steam without buying the U-Boat expansions. The Steam version is version 1.3. There has been several posts about that problem already.

Steam could have been lying (most likely unintentionally) I don't have much faith in them. :damn:

I'll see if it works now....:salute:

[Admiral8Q]

The gameplay is much better now. Much from what I remember. I still have the crappy gramophone though, heh heh! Whatever. Maybe I'll try some of the russian gramophone mods. :o

[TorpX]

If they don't spot you at 6 miles, then there is something wrong with the deck-watch. Even at night they looked for an anomaly on the horizon.

They shouldn't really be able to spot you at a great distance, at night. They would be looking down from a high level, and trying to spot a low black, or dark gray blob against dark gray water. If they happen to have the benefit of a bright moon, they might do it, otherwise, I don't see how they could accomplish it.

Night surface attacks were the preferred method of the KM against the RN, and they created havoc with it. The RN and USN had poor success defending convoys, until RADAR came into service. If subs were easy to spot at night, they wouldn't have needed RADAR.

[BigWalleye]

They shouldn't really be able to spot you at a great distance, at night. They would be looking down from a high level, and trying to spot a low black, or dark gray blob against dark gray water. If they happen to have the benefit of a bright moon, they might do it, otherwise, I don't see how they could accomplish it.

Night surface attacks were the preferred method of the KM against the RN, and they created havoc with it. The RN and USN had poor success defending convoys, until RADAR came into service. If subs were easy to spot at night, they wouldn't have needed RADAR.




I don't think you can assume that visual sighting ranges in the North Atlantic are similar to those in the South Pacific. Some historical data from weatherspark.com: In 2011, the highest average monthly visibility recorded at Hartlepool UK was 6.7 miles, with the lowest monthly average 5.9 miles. The lowest daily recording was 1.5 miles. In Honolulu HI, the lowest monthly average was 9.9 miles, with most months 10+ (US system recorda visibility greater than 10 miles as 10+.) The lowest daily recording for Honolulu was 8.9 miles. Data vary across these large areas, but it seems reasonable to assume that visibility in the PTO would be at least twice that in the ATO. (There is a lot of historical data available online, if anybody wants to mine it.)

BTW, at night, as you say, it would be difficult to see a dark blob on a dark ocean background. But a bright streak, a quarter-mile long and often phosphorescent due to Pacific marine microorganisms, would be a different matter. At night, the wake is often the easiest thing to spot.

[mobucks]

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/mobucks_2006/beer_zps793281f7.jpg

[BigWalleye]

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/mobucks_2006/beer_zps793281f7.jpg

Do you know the range to the sub when this screenie was made?

[Dread Knot]

Just for fun you guys might want to check out the USN lookout manual. :) I had no idea that even the act of visual search was so complex. The illustrations are fun too.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref/Lookouts/

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref/Lookouts/img/Lookouts.jpg

[Admiral8Q]

Just for fun you guys might want to check out the USN lookout manual. :) I had no idea that even the act of visual search was so complex. The illustrations are fun too.


:up:
That's a great website!

[Admiral8Q]

Sorry, anouther question.
How do you turn the camera lock off?

[mobucks]

Do you know the range to the sub when this screenie was made?

Which sub? I put two in there.

[merc4ulfate]

Being a look out was normal duty when I was at sea. I loved it too.

I can see both submarines in that photo but why is it so blurry?