Why is subsim publishing Russian propaganda?

[Joloc]

The story subsim is running about the Ukrainian flagship defecting to Russia is a lie perpetrated by the Russian government. Why is subsim repeating it when it is trivial to verify that is a very blatant lie? I tried contacting the site directly but got no response.

[Cybermat47]

I looked it up. Most news sources are reporting that she has defected.

[Armistead]

Neal has a lil Russian on his mothers side...

[Herr-Berbunch]

Subsim doesn't publish it - rt.com published it.

The main page of www.subsim.com has lots of things on it, in the middle column is World Naval News - anything remotely to do with anything Naval that gets spotted ususally gets a link there. RT.com published the story and someone spotted it and linked it because, let's face it, it does sound slightly naval, and worldly, thus filling the criteria. :salute:

Or in other words -

http://www.mikron.org.uk/images/2013/don%27tShootTitle.png

[Onkel Neal]

Our news editors simply post news articles from the media. If you read the first lines of that report, you will see that it is not confirmed. We did not choose the title of the report, but a reader should be able to determine for themselves that the facts of the report are in dispute.

Ukraine’s Navy flagship, the Hetman Sahaidachny frigate, has reportedly refused to follow orders from Kiev, and come over to Russia’s side and is returning home after taking part in NATO operation in the Gulf of Aden flying the Russian naval flag.

There has been conflicting information on where exactly the vessel is, but a Russian senator has confirmed to Izvestia daily that the frigate defected to the Russian side.

If a report surfaces that this report is untrue, it will also be published. I have edited the title of the article to reflect the nature of the article.

Hope that helps,
Neal

[Joloc]

http://www.mil.gov.ua/index.php?lang=en&part=news&sub=read&id=32772 Ukrainian ministry of defence ended up having to publish a statement that their flagship is sailing under the Ukrainian flag the following day. Are there any news sources that are not Russia Today reporting this?

[Joloc]

Also, thanks for editing the title. :)

Russian propaganda machine is strong - most Russians seem to believe that Ukraine is run by antisemitic Nazi Jews from Germany who are Ukrainian nationalists out to burn, rape, and loot anything Russian, and so it can be quite confusing to tell what is true and what is not even when exposed to various media outlets.

[nikimcbee]

I was gunna say this is GT, anything goes:

Adjusted for GT
What the democrat sees:
Republican propaganda machine is strong - most republicans seem to believe that the nation is run by Communist fellow travier athiets from Kali-fornia/New York who are American socalists out to burn, rape, and loot anything related to the Constitution, and so it can be quite confusing to tell what is true and what is not even when exposed to various media outlets.

What the Republican sees:
Obama propaganda machine is strong - most welfare recipients seem to believe that 'merica is run by antisemitic Nazi evangelicals from Texas and or Florida who are corperate thugs out to burn, rape, and loot anything related to the obama, and so it can be quite confusing to tell what is true and what is not even when exposed to various media outlets. :/\\k::subsim:

[nikimcbee]

At this point you hurl insults at each other until Neal shows up and opens up a can of Texas whup-ass, and the thread chills out.:know:

[Skybird]

It was in several of Germany's major news outlets as well, the ship had defected, the commander and crew. I linked to the news myself in a thread two days ago.

Not all Ukrainian units and commanders on the Crimea are defected or have defected. But quite some, it seems. Which is not so surpising, consideirng that there are many couples on the Crimea where one of the two is serving in the Ukrainian forces and the other in the Russian forces. For married couples like that, this situation must be hell.

Another story says that the newly appointed chief of the navy also switched sides, and pledged allegiance to the Russian side. But that story I did not follow and thus do not know if it was confirmed.

Both Russian AND Ukrainian news sources should be met with mistrust. It's a propaganda war that is fought by two. And no side is shy of lies, if lying appears to be opportune. After all, many of the new leaders in the interim government are of very dubious, suspicious backgrounds and the far right, and the currently so-called prime minister has a repeatedly reported biographic background in organised crime - and that is claimed not just by the Kremlin, but by Western correspondents knowing the country since years.

So, Joloc, take also the info that you chose to believe in, with a grain of salt. ;)

[CCIP]

Russian propaganda machine is strong - most Russians seem to believe that Ukraine is run by antisemitic Nazi Jews from Germany who are Ukrainian nationalists out to burn, rape, and loot anything Russian, and so it can be quite confusing to tell what is true and what is not even when exposed to various media outlets.

That's a pretty propagandistic blanket statement about a very large group of people in itself, don't you think? :shifty:

[Wolferz]

My Dad always told me.. "believe none of what you see and half of what you hear." " There are three sides to every story. The right one, the wrong one and the truth.":)

[krashkart]

My Dad always told me.. "believe none of what you see and half of what you hear." " There are three sides to every story. The right one, the wrong one and the truth.":)

In other words: don't take it for a grain of salt. Right? :03:

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

To be fair, I think it was even in Hong Kong media. Besides, it doesn't help that it is likely no one can remember which ship is the Ukrainian flagship, or whether there is such a thing.

[Aktungbby]

:roll:Apparently there is now a 'REPUBLIC OF CRIMEA'; the most amazing political development of the 21 st century! http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73319000/jpg/_73319731_73319730.jpg
Ukrainian navy chief Denis Berezovsky swears allegiance to Crimea on Sunday, the day before failing to persuade fellow officers to defect. Photograph: Reuters
Ukrainian navy officers have rejected pleas for them to defect to the self-declared Crimean government at an extraordinary meeting at their headquarters in Sevastopol.
On Sunday the recently appointed navy commander-in-chief, Rear Admiral Denis Berezovsky, appeared on television to announce he was defecting to the Russian-supported Crimean authorities. But despite his appeals to officers on Monday, they said they would remain loyal to their oaths to serve Ukraine. Berezovsky has been accused of state treason by the new authorities in Kiev. " I swear allegiance to the 'autonomous Republic of the Crimea!:Kaleun_Sleep:

[Joloc]

Hetman Sahaydachniy (U130) is the ship in question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_frigate_Hetman_Sahaydachniy_%28U130%29

No, she did not defect.

The navy chief did, reportedly for USD200,000 and tried convincing others to defect too, without success. All the ships still remain under Ukrainian control as far as I know. That may change any minute though.

In other news another RT news anchor could not put up with the lies they were made to say out loud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55izx6rbCqg

That's two in two days. At this rate they will soon have noone left to speak all that rubbish. :03:

[Jimbuna]

The situation in the area is a constant sea of change and will continue to be so until a settlement is reached between all parties concerned.

Believe what you will but always keep an open mind...such is the way of the media these days.

[raymond6751]

Also, thanks for editing the title. :)

Russian propaganda machine is strong - most Russians seem to believe that Ukraine is run by antisemitic Nazi Jews from Germany who are Ukrainian nationalists out to burn, rape, and loot anything Russian, and so it can be quite confusing to tell what is true and what is not even when exposed to various media outlets.

Please don't bring your political issues here. Reporting news isn't what this forum is about, but reporting news sources through links is better than stirring things up with "views" and "beliefs" of one group vs the other. That is not right. :hmmm:

[Joloc]

In that case could you publish this news about the same ship, also coming from the Russian government?

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/722267

It reports the "defected" ship to now be in Odessa, under Ukrainian flag, and to be spying for NATO.

:har:

[Joloc]

Please don't bring your political issues here. Reporting news isn't what this forum is about, but reporting news sources through links is better than stirring things up with "views" and "beliefs" of one group vs the other. That is not right. :hmmm:

Apologies, I will try to be more factual.

BBC reports http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26463731 that the main TV channels in Crimea have been raided, and now Russian state television is broadcasting from it, and is reporting that the Jewish Prime Minister of Ukraine ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arseniy_Yatsenyuk ) is an extremist Nazi.

Same link above also reports that a woman in Crimea tried protesting against joining Russia. She was summarily arrested and publicly flogged for holding radical views by the forces that reportedly do not take orders from Moscow, according to the Russian president Putin.

Same link as above, a bit further down, further reports widespread marches in Russia in support of military action, to bring the threat of Ukrainian Nationalist Jewish antisemitic threat to an end.

Meanwhile the Guardian spoke to a resident of Crimea about what he thinks is going on in Kiev: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/04/russian-propaganda-ukrainian-rumours-anger-hate-crimea

"What you foreigners don't get is that those people in Maidan, they are fascists," said Alexander, a Simferopol resident drinking at a bar in the city on Monday night. "I mean, I am all for the superiority of the white race, and all that stuff, but I don't like fascists."

Of course I do not know how much of the underlying population share the beliefs expressed by the state authorities. It is difficult to tell because when the United Nations secretary general envoy went to find out he got stopped. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-un-special-representative-seized-by-armed-men-in-crimeaukrainian-ministry-9171405.html . The people blocking him held signs implying Obama was not potty trained, and therefore UN should "go home". Whatever that means.

[Onkel Neal]

Any update on this?