Decks Awash toot (TEC)

[Sniper297]

A do it yourself tutorial for people who don't normally hack files, involves only two CFG files which can be opened and edited with notepad, no programming skills needed. Two items;

Not uploading this as a mod since Commands.cfg is altered with several existing mods, do it yourself means you can change any version of SH4 or any mod for it.

2, Decks Awash was an actual tactic used by actual WWII sub skippers, I'm not remotely interested in flawed theories using half understood science stated as gospel fact (a theory is not a fact until proven) by self appointed experts who think that a fleet sub could ever be unstable. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, most college kids are educated beyond their intelligence and assume they know it all after reading a couple of science books. Don't take everything you read on the internet for gospel. :know:

Difference when you're trying to sneak up on someone without submerging all the way:

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/q71/s720x720/1797443_691467527564197_603943639_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1797443_691467527564197_603943639_n.jpg?oh=0da264c 4bbe3254126ca7db3759ccaec&oe=55BBA4E9&__gda__=1438303240_3723e59fb55db402418d5ec9af4d2f3 8

Sargo class fully surfaced;

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/q71/s720x720/1620683_691467524230864_819553335_n.jpg

Flooded down to 25 foot depth, "decks awash".

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xta1/v/t1.0-9/1620683_691467524230864_819553335_n.jpg?oh=9ad8db6 ba07c45ca6b1e05f7bfd463be&oe=5573E8EB&__gda__=1438241517_367089826b3f3ddabed391f882830e2 2

Why the hack? The crew at the diving controls acknowledge an order to submerge to 25 feet if you set that on the depth dial, but then don't execute the order. Dive below 35 feet and then order them back up to 25 and they'll wobble up and down near 25 for awhile then say "20 feet, close enough - or maybe 19 is better" (scurvy dogs!). With the snorkel depth command activated they will hit and hold a 25 foot depth.

So, to start, those who don't know about file extensions:

http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?304396-Windows-Explorer-for-dummies


\Data\Cfg\Commands.cfg

Open that file with notepad.
CTRL F opens a search window, type

195

That will jump to this datablock;

[Cmd195]
Name=Snorkel_depth
Ctxt=1
Str=1033
;Key0=0xBA,C,"Comma"

In C code the apostrophe means "comment", with that at the beginning of the line it tells the program to ignore this line. So remove that, or just copy and paste this text to overwrite the 195 datablock;

[Cmd195]
Name=Snorkel_depth
Ctxt=1
Str=1033
Key0=0xBA,c,"CTRL semicolon"

Capital C replaced with lowercase makes it so the actual key is CTRL ; instead of just ; so you don't accidentally rise to decks awash when you meant to fire a torpedo or set rudder amidships. If you don't make k3yb0Rd m!$taK3$ you could leave the C alone and just press ; instead of CTRL ; . Save, exit.

Next file;

\Data\Submarine\NSS_Subtype\NSS_Subtype.cfg (for "Subtype" use the type of sub you want to mod, for example if you want to set the depth for a Gato don't use the s18 folder and .cfg)

Open that .cfg file in notepad, small file so just scroll down to;

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=16.7;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.5;meters
CrashDepth=40;meters
MaxDepth=100;meters
SurfaceDepth=5.061;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=30;meters
StormConditions=9,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

Default for that is 15, since US subs didn't have snorkels until the war was over we don't need an actual snorkel depth (probably why it was disabled in the original command.cfg). Metric conversion is all off, possibly they used some weird French Fortnight conversion or subtracted the price of a Romanian postage stamp. But 8.5 will give you 25 foot depth, 9.4 a 29 foot depth. 30 feet or deeper will switch from diesel to battery power, so if you're trying to sneak into a harbor or something where you need to go a long way don't make it more than 9.4.

Save, exit, launch game and try it out. Use whatever sub you edited, if you changed NSS_Porpoise.cfg a Balao won't work, you'd have to edit NSS_Balao.cfg. Or edit all of them.

Known issues, in real life a sub running flooded down deeper than 25 ft in reasonably calm waters could shut the main induction and draw air through the conning tower hatch to keep the diesels supplied with air. This would also keep the crew supplied with air, but this game for some reason considers anything deeper than 22 feet to be "submerged" for the crew air supply (CO2 buildup). The battery draw doesn't start until 30 feet, so if you're at 29 feet the diesels run so no battery discharge, but no fresh air for the crew. Dunno how to fix that, so just be aware that if you set time compression on without fully surfacing the battery won't discharge but the crew will suffocate after 48 hours. :dead:

Yes, I did that yesterday, running at all ahead full through a convoy flooded down to decks awash, then headed for home forgetting to surface and killed TM2 Kublinsky. :doh: For some reason there's no court martial for that. :arrgh!:

[TorpX]

Why the hack? The crew at the diving controls acknowledge an order to submerge to 25 feet if you set that on the depth dial, but then don't execute the order. Dive below 35 feet and then order them back up to 25 and they'll wobble up and down near 25 for awhile then say "20 feet, close enough - or maybe 19 is better" (scurvy dogs!).



Yes, I've noticed the AI crew will stubbornly adhere to their programed routines. It can be very annoying. I hope the next generation of SH will permit some manual control of ballast tanks and dive planes.


... but this game for some reason considers anything deeper than 22 feet to be "submerged" for the crew air supply (CO2 buildup).


Hmmm.... didn't know that. Very odd.

[Sniper297]

A *%#&@$#! men. At the very least a way to blow safety or pump fore and aft trim tanks or blow selected ballast tanks or something. In real life even traveling all day and night on the surface they made a daily trim dive to get the boat balanced fore and aft, and as close to neutral buoyancy as they could. The actual sequence was flooding negative and bow buoyancy tanks on the surface (the safety was always flooded, they called it the safety because if the ballast tanks were holed blowing the safety would give positive buoyancy) after the low pressure blowers emptied the saddle tanks (main ballast), and when doing the trim they calculated the amount the negative needed to have for near neutral buoyancy. On diving they would open the vents for the main ballast tankS (plural, many, not just one!) starting with the forward tanks so the bow would go down first, then open the others in sequence fore to aft. Passing 40 feet the command is given "blow negative to the mark", whatever mark they decided on when they did the last trim dive. In case of flooding in compartments they could "put a bubble" in any of the main ballast tanks (those are NORMALLY either empty or full but you CAN blow air into different ones for more buoyancy, since the air is compressed the inner and outer pressure will match and the tank won't collapse) or pump from / blow compressed air into any of the internal tanks to compensate. They completely ignore the most important aspects of operating a submersible vessel, buoyancy and balance management, in every sub simulator I've ever played. :/\\!!

As for the CO2 buildup, like everything else I found that out the hard way. Once I discovered it I changed the numbers to various different values (which are way off if they're in meters, unless they're Martian meters or something, 25 feet should be 7.6 meters, not 8.5) and ran a bunch of tests to determine what the actual depths are - 21 feet or above will get the crew on deck, 22 feet you can operate the deck gun but the crew won't man it, 23 feet will pop you back inside if you're on the deck gun. You can man the AA guns at 38 feet but not 39, even though you're underwater at 38 feet. At 35 feet you can still be on the bridge but underwater. 29 feet no battery discharge, diesels running, 30 feet diesels quit and the battery starts going down. Dive and stay under for a day or so, see the CO2 level at about 50%. Then come up and rise gradually, the red instantly vanishes and you get the message "oxygen level 100%" at 21 feet, same depth that the crew comes up. The instant effect is realistic, but in actuality the conning tower hatch is opened as soon as it clears and the main induction is opened at about 25 to 27 feet, as soon as the deck is about level with the water. The boat is then ventilated through the main induction, so if needed you can pop up, ventilate the boat, and dive again with a complete air change in a minute or so. The 21 foot depth part is the only thing that's really wrong, if the diesels are running at 29 feet where do they think the air is coming from?

[TorpX]

... unless they're Martian meters or something ...

Yeah, I've wondered about these things. How many of these flaws are due to simple mistakes?

... if the diesels are running at 29 feet where do they think the air is coming from?

Yes, why didn't they tie the oxygen to the diesel engine operation? Wouldn't that have been easier?

[Sniper297]

Occam's razor says the simplest explanation is that they hacked SH3 to "create" the "new" SH4, adding some files, eliminating some files, changing some files, and forgetting to eliminate - change some files. My guess is they edited the SH3 file for the diesels for more depth in SH4, but forgot to change the file with the crew air supply. Type VII u-boat had a smaller diameter (smaller in every dimension) than the US fleet boats, so had less freeboard and drew less water on the surface. Decks awash for Das Boot would probably be about 20 to 21 feet.

[BillBam]

Very nice, works perfect! Thanks.

[merc4ulfate]

considering how many versions of boats there are on both sides I'm surprised no on ever created a JSGME ready mod to adjust the files for all of them.

[Sniper297]

"Not uploading this as a mod since Commands.cfg is altered with several existing mods, do it yourself means you can change any version of SH4 or any mod for it."

Take whatever mod you use, make the simple changes, and save that as your own version of the mod.

[merc4ulfate]

I'm curious is this only for campaigns or should this work in single missions as well?

I went by the letter of what you instructed and then played Bungo Pete single Mission with a GAR but the boat never went to any type of snorkel depth and every time I pressed Ctrl; the text said Radar depth but actual depth never changed.

I changed both file for that type but it did not seem to change any attributes for the boat.

[Sniper297]

"both file for that type"

There's only one file for each type, and one global for all just to activate the snorkel depth command.

\Data\Cfg\Commands.cfg

[Cmd195]
Name=Snorkel_depth
Ctxt=1
Str=1033
Key0=0xBA,c,"Comma"

I don't find a radar depth in either file, for the Gar class you need;

\Data\Submarine\NSS_Gar\NSS_Gar.cfg

After a little trial and error (never tried a Gar myself before so I didn't have that one set) I came up with 8.8 which gets her down to 25 feet in about two minutes. That's stock 1.4, I have the flooding speed for the Sargo ballast tanks hacked to get down quicker, but that's in the SIM file and requires Silent 3ditor.

Also no gots bungo pete, closest I have is "Last Targets" quick mission, tried that with a Gar and it says "snorkel depth", not "radar depth", and stabilizes at 25 feet every time.

Never tried RFB, possibly they hacked something else that overrides the snorkel depth with a radar depth?

[CapnScurvy]

Bungo Pete is a Ducimus mission (TMO).

Whatever attributes his subs/ships used when the mission was developed/saved......that's what you'll get when you play the mission. That's why the "Training Missions" don't always reflect the mods we apply to the assets in-game. Their different.

[Sniper297]

Shouldn't have anything to do with it, the single/quick .mis files have the default sub type, but nothing about the physics of the sub. If TMO alters either of the two files involved in this hack, then the changes made by the user should override that. Depending on several factors, of course;

1. Windows Vista/7/8/whatever UAC interfering with changes,
2. Editing the correct file in the wrong folder, example editing CFG files in F:\Silent Hunter 4 Wolves of the Pacific then testing in C:\Subgames\Silent Hunter 4 Wolves of the Pacific using the unedited files,
3. Being a senile old geezer and forgetting to change the subtype in the mission from Balao to Gar (I did that twice while testing this yesterday),
4. Using JGSME the wrong way at the wrong time.

Can't think of anything else offhand, whatever the basic physics of the subtype are they should be used in any career start or any quick mission. Only thing that triggers alarm bells in my mind is his reference to "radar depth", when I hit CTRL ; the message I get is "snorkel depth".

[merc4ulfate]

Running windows 7 Professional UAC is not an issue and files do get saved properly after editing them.



Mods :

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
1_TMO_25_small_patch
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
Improved Ship Physics 2.6_TMO_RSRDC
TMO_Visuals_for_RSRDC
FJB_Navigation_Maps
FJB Color Navigation Map
Gyoraitei
Hull_Numbers
rocks small
plants small
Ship pack 1
Remove grain effect
Webster's Eliminate Floating Plankton for v1.4 and v1.5
More_DDs_for_AITorpedoLauncher
More_IJNDDs_AITorpedolauncher
Aircraft_reflections
11 New Ships + Yamato AA Fix by Miner1436
#5 Depthcharge Sound
#3 Submarines Splash Sound
#2 Other Clouds

My COMMANDS.CFG file: Section 195, of Z:\SHOM\Data\Cfg [Shom is my folder name for Silent Hunter]

[Cmd195]
Name=Snorkel_depth
Ctxt=1
Str=1033
Key0=0xBA,C,"v"


NSS_GAR.CFG file: Properties section, Z:\SHOM\Data\Submarine\NSS_Gar [SHOM is my folder name for Silent Hunter]

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18.3;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.5;meters
CrashDepth=50.29;meters
MaxDepth=76.2;meters
SurfaceDepth=7.62;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=61;meters
StormConditions=7,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

I switched the KEY to "v". Using "v" or have the file as describe using CTRL ; neither will affect a change and I get a "Radar Depth Message with CNTRL ;.

I switched it to comma and even went into TMO and TMO patch and changed the values there as well but the boat will not go to Decks Awash depth as a snorkel setting. [EDIT] I changed the setting in ISP 2.6 but that also has no effect.

Anyone have a clue as to what I might change ??

{{{EDIT}}}

I have removed all mods and the boat will now go to decks awash at 25 feet in both Gar and Gato. Adding mods to see where the change over occurs.

[Sniper297]

Hmmm, I tried to learn C code when it first came out, gave up on it after 10 years or so (not as complicated as algebra or women, but still too much for me). Looking over the code here though it appears it's the hex for the ASCII characters;

http://www.ascii-code.com/

Looking that over, hex for "V" is 56, so;

[Cmd195]
Name=Snorkel_depth
Ctxt=1
Str=1033
Key0=0x56,C,"V"

The second part of the string has either capital C or lowercase c which apparently translates to unshifted (just press the key no CTRL or SHIFT or whatever needed) or CTRL to activate. So if you want the key to activate with a single keypress you would use a capitol C in that slot, obviously your game has something mapped to the CTRL key somehow, when I press the CTRL key and nothing else, nothing happens. Dunno what the codes would be for SHIFT or ALT.

But in your case for the plain jane letter V, just change the lowercase c to capital C, change the 0xBA (ASCII semicolon) to 0x56 (ASCII letter V) and it should work.

[merc4ulfate]

What I have discovered is that TMO over writes the use of the cfg file for the player class submarine.

The cfg file I change in the stock game and also set TMO Gato.cfg to the same setting. When the semicolon is pressed you hear radar depth but you actually go to decks awash not radar depth as the game sat it.

ISP 2.6 also over write TMO so it too had to be changed so that all three files, Stock cfg, TMO cfg ISP cfg for each boat Gato, Gar etc... would be the same.
++++++++++++++++

[tohowalk]

I've been playing with this a bit, and I can't get everything to work the way I want.

TMOwtw is my only mod atm.

It seems the game is using the value of "sub/config-snorkel Depth" as the depth to go to when I hit "radar depth". While I can change that depth value and the key combination that activates it, I don't seem to be able to have both snorkel depth and radar depth available - it uses the depth I enter in the sub/config file for snorkel depth. What I think is needed is a separate value in sub/config for both radar depth and snorkel depth (or decks awash, or whatever you call it). That , in turn, would require a new command/cfg entry for decks awash so either one could be used.

Tohowalk

[merc4ulfate]

I still havent figured out why at pressing snorkel depth I get a Radar depth message.

[Sniper297]

It is my considered opinion that it beats the hell out of me. :06: I never looked into a separate radar depth, since the radar activates at 39 feet I can just order 35 feet and they'll go to 35 and hold that with no problem. It's only when I order depths around 25-28 feet that the swabs get attention deficit disorder so the decks awash mod using the snorkel depth is the only thing that consistently works for me.

One thing to try is de-activate all mods and run just the decks awash hack, see if it still says radar depth instead of snorkel depth. It could be a 1.5 thing, or if it's specific to one mod we can narrow down the investigation to only the files included with that mod.

[merc4ulfate]

When I emptied the mods I tried that idea. It still says radar depth without any mods but I can not find a single place in the cfg files concerning radar depth. It just isnt there.

I have a feeling that somewhere in the hard code maybe the american side is linked to a vocal que for radar depth and on the german side linked to snorkel depth.

I also noticed that the mods have to be disabled then modified and then re added before they take proper effect. If I leave the mods activate nothing seems to change after the file has been altered.

The sound file for Radar Depth must be named something other than what it is. I searched the entire sub structure of all files and mods and I can not find a single reference to a sound file for Radar Depth. There is one for snorkel depth but not Radar even though during game play you do have the sound "Radar Depth"

I have continued my testing and I now have achieved a 27 foot decks awash.

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18.3;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.7;meters
CrashDepth=50.29;meters
MaxDepth=76.2;meters
SurfaceDepth=7.62;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=61;meters
StormConditions=7,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

Using 8.7 meters with only version 1.5 and only TMO as a mod this will give you a 27 foot decks awash. Any speed above 2/3 will decrease your depth by 1 foot. So Flank at Decks Awash will have you sitting at 26 feet submerged. Sitting at 27 looks really nice. I found that using 8.5 had me sitting to far up out of the water. I will begin to add the mods I have in my list and report any changes. I am expecting one with ISP 2.6 but I am going to adjust that file to reflect 8.7 before I load it.

============================

Added testing notes.

Running this list alone:

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
1_TMO_25_small_patch
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1

And having the original game file as well as TMO in the Gato.CFG altered to reflect this setting:

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18.3;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.7;meters
CrashDepth=50.29;meters
MaxDepth=76.2;meters
SurfaceDepth=7.62;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=61;meters
StormConditions=7,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

You will run Decks Awash at 27 feet and 11 knots if your speed is set to flank.

If you add ISP 2.6 And your Gato.CFG file is as follows:

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18.3;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.38;meters
CrashDepth=50.29;meters
MaxDepth=91.44;meters
SurfaceDepth=7.62;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=61;meters
StormConditions=7,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

You will run Decks Awash at 27 feet but will only have a maximum speed of 8 knots for any engine setting above 2/3. There is no increase in speed above 2/3 settings

I am trying to determine why ISP limits the Decks Awash speed to only 8 knots for any setting above 2/3.

BELOW are the differences of the two files I have not posted the entire file since all other information in it is the same for both.


TMO for GATO.CFG

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18.3;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.8;meters
CrashDepth=50.29;meters
MaxDepth=91.44;meters
SurfaceDepth=7.62;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=45.75;meters
StormConditions=9,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

[EngineProperties]
AllStop=0.00
AheadSlow=0.25
AheadOneThird=0.50
AheadStandard=0.75
AheadFull=0.90
AheadFlank=1.00
BackSlow=-0.26
BackStandard=-0.40
BackFull=-0.53
BackEmergency=-0.66

==========================

ISP GATO.CFG

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18.3;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.38;meters
CrashDepth=50.29;meters
MaxDepth=91.44;meters
SurfaceDepth=7.62;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=61;meters
StormConditions=7,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

[EngineProperties]
AllStop=0.00
AheadSlow=0.46
AheadOneThird=0.68
AheadStandard=0.82
AheadFull=0.91
AheadFlank=1.00
BackSlow=-0.30
BackStandard=-0.45
BackFull=-0.60
BackEmergency=-0.67



I am hoping TOPRX can help shed some light on this for me so we can get a consistent speed out of decks awash no matter which of the mods are running.

27 feet for decks awash is an awfully good thing.

++++++++++++++++

NEW UPDATE:

I have discovered a small mod I ran called #3 Submarines Splash Sound which was part of the Enviroment 5 mod does something to change the submarine boats physics or something and will not allow Decks Awash. This file modifies the Gato.SIM as well as GATO.DAT files in some way that I do not understand as yet. If ISP has altered the DAT or SIM files from the GATO this might be why the reduced speed for decks awash over TMO and RSRD without ISP. I'll have to wait for TORPX to enlighten me on it. I have never adjusted any DAT or SIM files as yet. Modding is pretty new to me.

[Sniper297]

Speed will be reduced by decks awash simply because the deeper the hull in the water the more drag there is. More drag = more thrust needed to maintain same speed, also less speed at max thrust. It's still a good compromise for sneaking in harbors though, lower profile for less chance of detection combined with faster speed than submerged without discharging batteries.

I tinkered with this a bit last night, in the command.cfg file,

[Cmd68]
Name=Toggle_radar_view
Ctxt=1
;Key0=0x78,,"F9"
;Key0=0x52,,"R"

Again the ";" at the beginning of a line tells the program "this is a comment do not process this line." So in stock SH4 the R key is not used at all.

With that in mind I added a datablock at the bottom;

[Cmd567]
Name=Radar_depth
Ctxt=1
Key0=0x52,C,"R"

Then changed the numbers at the top to increment;

CommandsNb=601
MaxKeyCommandsNb=171

After that did the NSS_Sargo.cfg thusly;

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.85;meters
RadarDepth=10.6;meters
CrashDepth=40;meters
MaxDepth=100;meters
SurfaceDepth=5.0;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=99;meters
StormConditions=9,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

No joy in mudville, pressing the R key in game does zip point diddly squat. Not a serious problem for me, again my SOP is to listen around the sonar dial, make a 90 degree turn to check the dead zone, then up to periscope depth for a 360 sweep. No visible targets I order 35 feet, fire up the SJ radar and sweep that a few times, then "snorkel depth" (decks awash) for a few minutes while continuing the radar sweep before blowing the ballast to surface all the way. For some reason any depth from 30 feet on down is no problem for the planesmen, it's just depths between 20 and 30 feet they can't hit and hold even when you offer them rum.

[merc4ulfate]

It would have been a great feature to have independent dive plane operation (bow and stern) and control over the several ballast tanks. I would have added independent control over the two screws as well.

=================

The odd thing is ... where am I getting Radar Depth messages? Why is it that pressing Snorkel Depth I get a radar message? I recall somewhere that TMO had a Radar Depth in it so that if you hit R you went to radar depth but you had to activate it manually I think.

Well doesnt this answer it all for me?

TMO AND RADAR DEPTH (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=189073&highlight=radar+depth)

TMO Radar Depth is ";" but you can manually change it to "R". The vocal message is tied to the key stroke so it is always RADAR DEPTH. I have not figured out where to change that yet.

:rock: Rockin Robbins ROCKS :rock:

[TorpX]

Ok, the internet just ate my post, so this is going to be the short version.

You will run Decks Awash at 27 feet but will only have a maximum speed of 8 knots for any engine setting above 2/3. There is no increase in speed above 2/3 settings

I am trying to determine why ISP limits the Decks Awash speed to only 8 knots for any setting above 2/3.


First, try going to GQ. The engine room compartment Ef is important here. Having better crew should help some.

If you are deep enough to fully submerge your hull, you are essentially a submerged submarine. The only advantage you retain, propulsion wise, is being able to run the diesels. If you are too deep to do that, you might as well be fully submerged.

Your exact speed will likely depend on your exact depth, and crew Ef. Don't expect much better than your max. submerged speed, if your hull is under.

I am hoping TOPRX can help shed some light on this for me so we can get a consistent speed out of decks awash no matter which of the mods are running.


??

You can't expect the same results with ISP as with other mods, as it changes propulsion at a basic level. Otherwise, there would be little point in using it.

[merc4ulfate]

Thank you TOPRX.

I was hoping to find a solution that would allow Decks Awash to run at 11 knots like it does with TMO. I found it odd that any speed setting above 2/3 would not change the speed by even one knot.

Decks awash at Flank using Diesels even considering your hull is underwater would be faster than at 2/3.

When I was looking at the maximum submerged speed both TMO and ISP were set to 8 but TMO will go to eleven at 27 feet and ISP only 8. ISP has greater speed per setting ie. TMO Ahead Standard 0.75 and ISP 0.82 and I thought this also would have contributed to a greater speed per setting even at decks awash.

I am curious where to find the "basic level" that you spoke of when dealing with propulsion? I am not much when it come to modding but I would mind having a look at it.

[TorpX]

You didn't say whether you tried GQ, or what you crew Ef was while you were doing 8 kn. ..??

Were seas calm?

[Sniper297]

Difference between TMO and ISP is probably the NSS_(SubType).sim file, specifically

11. unit_Submarine

If you look in there under propulsion and E_propulsion you'll see the max surface speed (using Gato as example) set to 21, max submerged speed is 9. Decks awash max speed will depend on depth (in one I note you have it at 8.7, the other at 8.38, shallower is faster) and both max speed settings. One "supersargo" I play with occasionally has surface max 26 knots, submerged 10 knots, that gives me 15 knots at decks awash flank speed. In other words the max speed at decks awash is a percentage of the max speeds in the sim file, probably the median between the two although I haven't run any tests to confirm that theory.

TorpX, one thing I've always wondered about;

StormConditions=9,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

I note in his the number is changed;

StormConditions=7,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

What exactly does that affect?

[TorpX]

TorpX, one thing I've always wondered about;

StormConditions=9,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

I note in his the number is changed;

StormConditions=7,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

What exactly does that affect? I think it mainly is a matter of the crew putting on their foul weather gear; beyond that, I'm not sure. I don't know if it prevents use of deck gun. I never try to use it if seas are rough.



***
I did a quick test of the Gato with decks awash (using ISP, of course).
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I wanted to try several depths, but the game boat doesn't want to settle on any depth between 22 and 28 ft. There are obviously a lot of mechanics coded in the game that we can't reach.
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Anyway, at 22 ft., I was able to reach 10.0 knots, at crew Efficiency of 100 (8.2 kn. at ~ 75). This was in a very calm sea. The deck is not actually awash; maybe 2 ft. is above water.
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At 28 ft., 7.8 kn., and a maximum of 9.2 kn. @ Ef 100. The deck is fully submerged, and crew is below. I don't see this as being very practical, but maybe you can get by with this. This is really deeper than I wanted.
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Fully surfaced, at 17 ft., I reached 21.5 kn. @ Ef 100, or 19.5 kn. @ Ef 67.
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To double check, I went back to 22 ft. and reached 9.8 kn. @ Ef 100.
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For whatever reason, at 'decks awash' max. speed didn't seem to change from standard to flank; at least not that I could tell. Perhaps the drag just makes the increase too small to observe.
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I wanted to try 24 or 25 ft., but the crew doesn't cooperate. In any case, I consider the above results reasonable.
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If anyone is having trouble getting good speed at decks awash check these things:
With ISP, you must have the crew efficiency at 100, or at least high. Ordinarily, this means going to GQ.
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What is your exact depth? The deeper you are, the slower you go.
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Make sure you are not charging batteries.
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Sea-state is still a factor, though you will probably not loose too much speed, since you are mostly submerged already.
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I agree with Sniper about the way the game handles the matter. It looks at the max. surface speed, the max. submerged speed, and your present depth to calculate the instantaneous drag. You do not have to be fully submerged to be slowed. [This is easily seen when we dive; we start slowing down long before the boat is fully submerged.] Whether this is a simple linear interpolation, or something more complicated, I don't know. I don't believe the game takes any factors, like the bow wave into account.

[Sniper297]

"I wanted to try 24 or 25 ft., but the crew doesn't cooperate"

Hence the need for the hack, the mutinous dogs won't hold any depth less than 30 feet consistently without the snorkel depth setting.

I was wondering about the storm conditions setting because I thought it might affect the automatic shutoff of the SJ radar (and again the scurvy lubbers don't have the sense to automatically turn the blasted thing back on!) but it's difficult to test since waves high enough to shut down the SJ are so random.

[merc4ulfate]

In my test I use the same mission, calm seas and it doesn't matter if we are at GQ or not the speed will never increase about 8 knots even setting the max speed in the file to 20.

I'm ok with it really but I would have liked to have had it at 11 like in TMO. 11 seems plausible to me with decks awash to 27 feet and all ahead 2/3.

Been reading patrol reports and I think the game seriously over estimates the number of depth charges held on a DD. The Tunny reported that a MOMO only held 10?

[Sniper297]

Limited number on the racks/launchers but the total number carried for reloading could be almost anything.

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/D/e/Depth_Charge.htm

Specific sentence;

"The typical loadout on a fleet destroyer was about 30 depth charges, while dedicated escort ships had a very large loadout, of as many as 300 depth charges."

No data I can find on how long it took to drag the extras up from the magazines or prep them for firing/dropping. My problem with the whole thing is it's too easy in any depth over 300 feet, the thermal layer acts like a Klingon cloaking device. Fire all tubes, dive 60 feet below the layer, slow to 2 knots, go five miles in any direction except the original convoy/task force course before coming back to periscope depth. Don't even need to go to silent running, once I'm under the layer they can't find me at all. I tried adjusting that at one time but the layer seems to be completely digital, either 100% effective or zero percent.

[YonMaruIchi]

Off topic but I'm sure the Momo's age had something to do with it. Hell those things are even older than Minekaze. Why put dozens of depth charges on such an outdated destroyer? I'm surprised it had any. Particularly since Fubuki was such a huge step forward in destroyer quality being the first modern destroyers in the world and consequent designs being mass produced, I don't think anything before Mutsuki was really intended to see much action at the time. Find out if anything made after 1920 had so few depth charges that hadn't recently attacked another sub. Momo is a terrible example destroyer, probably the worst you can use :haha:

According to wiki by WWII that ship was the only ship of its class to actually still be used in WWII and wasn't even classed as a destroyer, but an auxiliary escort, and was barely even ocean-going, just an unnamed coastal patrol boat.

[TorpX]

Off topic but I'm sure the Momo's age had something to do with it. ...
According to wiki by WWII that ship was the only ship of its class to actually still be used in WWII and wasn't even classed as a destroyer, but an auxiliary escort, and was barely even ocean-going, just an unnamed coastal patrol boat.

The IJN wasn't going to dedicate their latest and greatest DD's to ASW. They would be screening CV's and BB's and looking for trouble in fleet actions. The Momi patrol boats were second-class, and therefore all the more likely to be deployed for the job of chasing after USN subs.

In fact the RN and USN used a lot of second-class vessels for ASW duties, too.

[Sniper297]

According to Nicholas Monsarrat (The Cruel Sea) the Royal Navy was so unprepared for U-boats they sent out assorted tug boats and fishing trawlers armed with a few WWI Lewis guns and half a dozen depth charges at the beginning of the war. The IJN was a little better prepared (since they had two years to watch what the U-boats were doing to the Brits) but still equipped small craft and merchants with depth charges at various times.

[TorpX]

According to Nicholas Monsarrat (The Cruel Sea) the Royal Navy was so unprepared for U-boats they sent out assorted tug boats and fishing trawlers armed with a few WWI Lewis guns and half a dozen depth charges at the beginning of the war.

Not only at the beginning. I'm reading Blair's History of the U-boat campaign, and some of those trawlers were 'loaned' to the USN to help stop the carnage on the East coast during '42. Later, when they weren't needed there, they were sent to the South Atlantic, around South Africa, because the defenses there were still weak in '43.

There is never enough new equipment to go around.

[Crannogman]

Thanks Sniper, I'm enjoying this little tweak, though I may have to bring the depth a little lower in my Gato. FWIW, I'm also getting "radar depth" when I use that command. I'm tempted to reset my periscope depth a meter shallower so I can still hear the radio

[Sniper297]

Are you getting "radar depth" with stock 1.5, or with one or more mods? Still can't figure out where that's coming from.

[merc4ulfate]

I get Radar Depth no matter what the mod configuration. Stock, TMO, TMO+RSRD+ISP I get it no matter what.

[Sniper297]

Hmm, must be a 1.5 thing. Curious, does it say "SnorkelDepth" in the SubType.cfg file?

Looking over some of this slop;

[Unit]
ClassName=SSSargo
3DModelFileName=data/Submarine/NSS_Sargo/NSS_Sargo
HumanPlayable=YES
Interior=data/Interior/NSS_Salmon/NSS_Salmon
UnitType=200
MaxSpeed=26 Not used
MaxSpeedSubmerged=10 Not used
Length=94.6404
Width=8.1788
RenownAwarded=130

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.9;meters
CrashDepth=45;meters - Depth at which the sub automatically levels off after ordering a crash dive with the C key.
MaxDepth=90;meters - Not actually the crush depth, merely sets where the test depth needle on the deep depth gauge goes.
SurfaceDepth=5.06;meters Not used
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=122;meters Default sets this at 30 meters (99 feet) which is silly, when the torpedo tubes are flooded the pressure in the tube is the same as the exterior pressure, so the outer doors can be opened at any depth.
StormConditions=9,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

Max speed and max speed submerged have no effect in this file, neither does the surface depth. Probably leftovers from SH3, some of these files are very similar to SH3, in fact some are obviously SH3 files that don't do anything at all in this game and could have been deleted.

Max depth is misleading, the actual depth at which the sub starts taking damage is labeled as "crash depth", but not the one in this file, that's in the ZON file. So "crash depth" in this file is actually crash DIVE level off depth, max depth in this file is not used except for the indicator needle, actual max depth is in the ZON file - they probably read "crush depth" and just spelled it wrong when translating to English.

[merc4ulfate]

eVEN IN A gATO AND gAR IT SAYS sNORKLE dEPTH IN THE CFG FILE BUT THE AUDIO IS "raDAR dEPTH"

[Sniper297]

Interesting, I've had voices turned off for quite a while since they're so irritating, all I get is the messages in the little box. Have to turn the voices back on to check that out and see what I get with 1.4.

[merc4ulfate]

SH4/Data/Sounds :
then there are 9 folders with varying speakers for each related vocal response. So far I have been able to find Snorkel Depth but never in the game. I have however found not a single reference to Radar Depth. There are Radar destroyed, repaired and damaged but no Depth. I have looked through all the mods I am running and still there is no reference in them to Radar Depth.

[CapnScurvy]

Kids,

I've been watching you for over a week now....I can't stand it any longer. :up:

Data/Menu/Menu.txt.......version 1.5, try 1033 entry.

[Sniper297]

We're just getting warmed up, wait til we start selling tickets! :woot:

Turned the voices back on, I get "yes sir" followed by another "yes sir" in a different voice with "CE snorkel depth" on the message screen. Hitting the ' key I get "CE rudder amidships" on the message, voices "yes sir" followed by "rudder! rudder!". With all the other bugs in this game those are merely minor annoyances, easily cured by turning the voices off. When these lubbers persist in saying "yes sir" where they should be saying "aye aye sir" I don't really want to hear them anyway. :hmph:

[merc4ulfate]

That is like a script reading a note card scurvy. Those functions in that part of the txt are for calling subtitles. Sure there is an address for function but where is the actual audio file? I have yet to find the audio file for "Radar Depth". I know that the noted function Snorkel Depth and Radar Depth are there but the only audio file I can find is the one for Snorkel Depth.

Ever instance where the function is called it uses the audio file saying "Radar Depth" when it should be using the audio file saying "Snorkel Depth".

This Radar Depth audio file must be called something different because in a system wide search I have found no audio file that is verbally saying "Radar Depth" and it is this file I wish to find and change to say "Bring the boat to Decks Awash, Aye Sir".

Even the files concerning snorkel depth all say snorkel depth I have not found a single one that is called snorkel depth to actually say radar depth. Where is the game pulling the audio file itself in saying, "Radar Depth" when the key stroke for Snorkel Depth is depressed?

I had thought that all speech files were in the folders numbered 1-9 but if there are other speech files where in this Radar Depth audio file may reside please let us know.

[hughesjr]

Sorry to necro .. but .. does the decks awash setting (using snorkel depth as outlined in post 1) actually reduce your detection profile .. either from Radar or Visual.

Or is this just aesthetic only?

I suppose I can try some tests .. but I am not really interested in doing it if the only impact is it looks cool.

Edit:
OK .. some things I would consider 'critical' to decks awash, that we don't get:

1. Can go almost normal speed surfaced speed, not dive max speeds. (In testing on the Porpoise, I went for 18Kn to 12Kn for 8.5m .. I can live with that (propulsion is still on the diesels. At PD I get 9kn it seems)
2. I need to be able to have watchstanders on the bridge. It seems I can't .. they rig for dive and leave, I do not see any way to put them back on the bridge .. I can go to the bridge though. This might just be a misunderstanding of how I can control the crew for now. (It seems I CAN see the ships on the map as if I had lookouts on the bridge, even though they are not there.)

So, basically, it seems to me that the only real thing this does is allow me to charge the battery and I can ride on the bridge, but no lookouts. It also seems no sonar working .. no sound contacts. Only what I personally see on the scopes or on the bridge can I target. So this gives me a way to charge the battery, looks kind of cool .. but leaves me completely blind. I would only do it if I could prove it reduced the ability for people to see me as I lost all my crew target finding (at least it seems to me).

Not for me I think.

[l02turner]

I found the cfg file for the BALAO but when I went to te GATO there was no CFG file.
??
Also, what command is used to go to Snorkel Depth?

Thanks!

[KaleunMarco]

I found the cfg file for the BALAO but when I went to te GATO there was no CFG file.
??
Also, what command is used to go to Snorkel Depth?

Thanks!

that key depends on the mod-set you are playing, which you did not post.
for example, in Stock, there is no key command for Snorkel Depth.
in TMO 2.5 (not the new one, the old one), the key is Shift+P.
your install should have two JPG's for the keyboard in the SH4 level of your folders. those should tell you what key is used, UNLESS...you are using a mod-set whose creators did not make one.
then, your only alternative is to browse to \data\cfg and look for Commands.cfg. open it with Notepad or Notepad++ and perform a find for Snorkel. DO NOT SAVE any changes you may make.

Good Luck, Herr Kaleun.