'Yes' vote 'means leaving pound'

[Jimbuna]

Osborne has finally publically and unequivocally said what I suspect so many others in the UK wanted to hear.

Over to you Mr. Salmond, after all it is you who has painted yourself into a corner.

UK Chancellor George Osborne has said a vote for Scottish independence would mean walking away from the pound.

He said there was "no legal reason" why the rest of the UK would want to share sterling with an independent Scotland, as Scottish ministers have proposed.

Mr Osborne was backed by Labour and the Liberal Democrats.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26166794

[Tango589]

Becoming an independent country and keeping the same currency is like divorcing the missus but still going round for nookie!

[STEED]

If what I saw around a friends house Scotland can tell England to get stuffed and stick it up your rear end we're rolling in money. I didn't see all the interview but it was clear Scotland could very well become more richer than England.

If this comes about?

[Jimbuna]

If what I saw around a friends house Scotland can tell England to get stuffed and stick it up your rear end we're rolling in money. I didn't see all the interview but it was clear Scotland could very well become more richer than England.

If this comes about?

You've obviously not read this 'carefully' or otherwise then:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26170638

[STEED]

Wall up the Scottish transvestites, only they would re-name a skirt. :O:

[Dread Knot]

Did anybody up there in Brigadoon really think that the British people have spent the last 10 years rejecting the euro only to jump into another currency union?

That's one aspect of this possible divorce that hasn't really been publicized too much. While a newly independent Scotland may have to cede some sovereignty to the remainder of the UK in order to stay in a currency union, the rest of the UK will also have to cede sovereignty to the newly independent Scotland.

If, as has been suggested, Scotland takes a radically different approach and becomes a more egalitarian society with high levels of welfare spending fueled by a mixture of North Sea oil revenues and borrowing based on those revenues, then the rest of the UK will have to underwrite this expenditure to some extent. I'm not sure how happy the rest of the UK will be to have the value of their currency determined in part by a group of politicians in a neighboring country with a radically different world view.

[Oberon]

A bit of a bully-boy tactic, but it's true, it wouldn't make much sense to be independent but reliant on a foreign currency (although one could argue that this is exactly what the Euro is...). It's really just another display of how poorly Salmond has thought out his little vote winner. :O:

[Jimbuna]

A currency union would mean the Bank Of England would be underwriting Scottish assets as well as setting the interest rates and that is what Salmond is failing to grasp.

The Scottish banks aren't strong enough to fend for themselves on their own and the EU and other lending institutions are well aware of the fact.

The threat of refusing to take any part of the financial debt unless the pound is kept only goes to show that an independant Scotland will be no better thought of than the likes of Greece in EU circles and interest rates on borrowing would reflect the fact.

Yes, Mr Salmond has certainly painted himself into a corner this time.

[BossMark]

Somehow I dont think Jabba the hut will get his "yes" vote

[BossMark]

There are many issues for Scotland if they choose independence. What would happen to their NHS? Their BBC? And their British Airways?

But of course the larger question is: what would Andy Murray be if he lost a tennis match?

[TarJak]

Haggis

[guntherprien]

What's the official position on Faslane if independence does take place ?
I understand Salmond wants a nuclear free Scotland.

[Jimbuna]

Then we relocate to to a naval base down on the south coast and nearly five thousand jobs in Scotland disappear.

Better still....why would Scotland be willing to join Nato when none of their allies (those potentially carrying nuclear weapons) would be allowed in Scottish ports?

[Schroeder]

The Scottish banks aren't strong enough to fend for themselves on their own and the EU and other lending institutions are well aware of the fact.

Actually I think that an independent Scotland wouldn't even be part of the EU. So I'm not so sure they would be lending too much money to Scotland anyway.:hmm2:

[Herr-Berbunch]

It's doomed for sure (said in the Scots accent of the guy from Dad's Army).

51% of me wants them to remain in the Union, the remaining wants my to laugh at their historic failure as it happens. Unfortunately with friends from and living there keeps 'no' above the halfway mark.

[TarJak]

Is support for the split that high over the border? Most polling I've seen shows a clear No vote on its way.

[Oberon]

Likewise, there's the usual core SNP lot, but I can't see the mainstream voters going with the Yes vote, but you honestly can't call these things for certain until it happens.

[mapuc]

I wonder if those who's for an independent Scotland have been thinking on all these issues?

Such as economy, currency

Military

a.s.o

Markus

[Herr-Berbunch]

I wonder if those who's for an independent Scotland have been thinking on all these issues?

Such as economy, currency

Military

a.s.o

Markus

I think they're targeting the youth vote, so no, they won't be thinking of economy or currency, just 'let us get rid of the English overlords (overlaird?) and that nice fishy bloke will give us lots of money, free childcare, free this, free that, with no idea how it will be paid for in the future. Oh, North Sea gas and oil? :hmm2:

First Minister Alex Salmond's argument that the revenues from North Sea oil would be a golden ticket if Scotland became independent after September's referendum has received a devastating blow.


According to the latest monthly report from the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries (Opec), the average oil output in 2013 from the North Sea registered its lowest level since 1977.


Source (dated just yesterday!) - http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/scottish-independence-alex-salmonds-north-sea-oil-dreams-dashed-by-opec-outlook-1436166

[Wolferz]

Leave the pound?
Anything to get away from the dog catcher, eh?:03::salute:

[Jimbuna]

Actually I think that an independent Scotland wouldn't even be part of the EU. So I'm not so sure they would be lending too much money to Scotland anyway.:hmm2:

The Scots are in favour of joining the EU for the 'benfits' of trade and hoped for financial stability.

On the other side of the coin, the EU are concerned Scotland is financially insecure and would quickly become another Greece.

[Jimbuna]

I think they're targeting the youth vote, so no, they won't be thinking of economy or currency, just 'let us get rid of the English overlords (overlaird?) and that nice fishy bloke will give us lots of money, free childcare, free this, free that, with no idea how it will be paid for in the future. Oh, North Sea gas and oil? :hmm2:




That is precisely the question Salmond has dodged answering...how can you continue giving the free this and free that when the 'fiscal experts' question or doubt your countries ability to pay for said freebies without large hikes in taxation?

I was always hopeful they would remain in the Union but the closer we get to the September vote I'm erring on the side of 'Go on then, bugga off but don't go coming back in a decade or so'.

[Skybird]

In case the Scots vote for separation, the EU would suck them in, yes. It always does, it even wants to suck in states that it cannot digest. All European land must be theirs. So the Scottish calculation that the EU would accept them, can be understood.

I have no opinion on it, just saying that any people and region always has just any right there can be to decide whether they want to unite or split from some superregional entity like a state. But who does so should make sure that he can afford to stay for himself, also, he has no right to demand others to bail him out on his deficits. He can beg for help, and when refused, he has to liver with it.

Problem over the Euro is that EUrocratics always give an impression as if the EU not only wants everybody in, but would even have an obligation to just welcome everybody.

As long as the Scots do not change their political system fundamentally and replace their politcial personnel and send the whole political establishment to hell, I see little importance on the issue of whether they formally split from the Brits or stay with them. The storm that is gathering above Western states will catch them this Pound-way or that Euro-way anyway.

[STEED]

UK declares war on Scotland!

British troops should be marching into Scotland in a about a month time after a few visits to the cobblers to repair their boots.

Mean while Scotland will have there Tanks ready to face us.

[TarJak]

Jim just wants them to separate so he can nip across the border to pick up some duty free fags and booze each week

[Jimbuna]

Well, put it this way and putting the question of independance aside....for as long as I can remember there have been many businesses in England who refuse to accept Scottish banknotes on the pretext (I suspect) that they are more easily forged than English banknotes.

[STEED]

Who said it was money?

Paper money. :har::har::har::har::har::har::har:

[Jimbuna]

http://s16.postimg.org/irg9s4zwl/alex_salmond.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[STEED]

http://www.oilcareers.com/onstream/files/2012/06/Alex-Salmond.jpg

I'm voting NO

[STEED]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dCmctezAGiI/T0OrmpEJh8I/AAAAAAAABM4/tn-6Jy3N85w/s1600/Salmond+tunnocks.jpg

Alex votes yes on chocolate.

[STEED]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CpN7Ph4Vu1A/UeauqIyTfQI/AAAAAAAALWo/gJSXfVC6lnQ/s1600/SNA0814ECK--_1759748a.jpg

Alex votes yes on pies.

[STEED]

http://elcoral2.com/slideshows/political/p7ssm_img_2/fullsize/alex_salmond_SNP_fs.jpg

Alex campaigns hard for the No vote and promises to invade Poland this September.

[Jimbuna]

http://s28.postimg.org/4ok813s4d/r_ALEX_SALMOND_large570.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
"I know what people think of me and they are very correct"

[STEED]

http://www.ianfraser.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Alex-Salmond-300x168.jpg
Alex gives jim the thumbs up on those Danish porn films.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/13/article-2086137-087D19F0000005DC-122_306x423.jpg
Alex tells Toffboy shut your face you bank arse licker.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/285x214/38101_1.jpg
YeeeHarrr Alex campaigns for the American No vote.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/431810114614329344/H3CWkjC4.jpeg
Alex goes for the cool No vote.

[STEED]

Scotland wins the war against England.

http://www.clickonwales.org/wp-content/uploads/Alex-Salmond-David-Cameron.jpg

Toffboy signs the surrender papers while Alex signs the arrest papers for Toffboy.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Here is Alex Salmond's official portrait (from Wikipedia):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Alex_Salmond%2C_First_Minister_of_Scotland.jpg/254px-Alex_Salmond%2C_First_Minister_of_Scotland.jpg
Doesn't this look more like a mug shot than "official portrait"? :hmmm:

[Wolferz]

Here is Alex Salmond's official portrait (from Wikipedia):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Alex_Salmond%2C_First_Minister_of_Scotland.jpg/254px-Alex_Salmond%2C_First_Minister_of_Scotland.jpg
Doesn't this look more like a mug shot than "official portrait"? :hmmm:


No, he's not dressed in his OJ's:O:

[Tango589]

Jose Manuel Barroso: nearly impossible for Scotland to join EU (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10641902/Jose-Manuel-Barroso-Scotland-joining-EU-would-be-extremely-difficult.html)

No currency union, no EU, it looks like things are getting trickier for the Yes vote.

[Oberon]

Don't forget the EU specialises in Impossibilities though. :03: All Salmond would have to do is fudge the numbers and he'd get in alright. :O:

[Catfish]

Don't forget the EU specialises in Impossibilities though. :03: All Salmond would have to do is fudge the numbers and he'd get in alright. :O:

No chance, have been in Scotland fishing, and all salmons have different sizes, no standarisation, nothing.
:O:

If bananas have to have a certain curving to be accepted, how will Scotland ever do that ?

[Jimbuna]

No chance, have been in Scotland fishing, and all salmons have different sizes, no standarisation, nothing.
:O:

If bananas have to have a certain curving to be accepted, how will Scotland ever do that ?

They will ensure the perfect roundness of the haggis no doubt.

[Oberon]

They will ensure the perfect roundness of the haggis no doubt.

Well, haggis is a science, the left and right legs on the male and female haggis have to be at the exact different height or they'll miss each other whilst running around the mountain. Natural selection at its finest, those who don't have the right sized legs, miss their mates and don't breed.

To hell with monkeys, haggis evolution is where it's at. :yep:

[GT182]

Don't worry. If Scotland gets their indepenance the US will take them as the 51st State. ;)

But that haggis crap has to stay in Scotland.. we doesn't want it over here. LOL

[Jimbuna]

Too late, they already have their king.

http://s29.postimg.org/gzsccjcjr/THE_LAST_KING_OF_SCOTLAND_001.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[STEED]

Don't worry. If Scotland gets their indepenance the US will take them as the 51st State. ;)

But that haggis crap has to stay in Scotland.. we doesn't want it over here. LOL

Take aim

FIRE...

Scotland bombards America will low flying haggis.

[Jimbuna]

If I hadn't watched his speech today on the news I would never believe it...now Salmond reckons UK firms could face huge taxation costs because the chancellor and the Bank Of England as well as both main opposition parties have ruled out a currency union with an independant Scotland.

Excuse me Mr Salmond but I do believe you are missing a fundamental point here...it is YOU who wishes to leave the union and any consequences are as a direct result of the actions you are promoting.

If you want to keep the Pound then let the status quo continue.

We all know what your Plan A is but you don't have a Plan B do you?

Pretty soon the hole you're digging will be too deep for you to climb out of and Cameron is quite correct when he said earlier today that you are "The man without a plan".

Blocking an independent Scotland's ability to share the pound could damage business in the rest of the UK, First Minister Alex Salmond has said.

Mr Salmond said the UK Treasury could impose "hundreds of millions of pounds" in costs on firms if plans for a post-Yes currency union were rejected.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26220638

[Herr-Berbunch]

If you want to keep the Pound then let the status quo continue.


Funny you should mention the musical masters :hmmm: -

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/scotland-joining-eurovision-would-be-very-difficult-for-everyone-2014021783678

Warning - one small expletive in the link

[TarJak]

When do they go to the polls? I'm going to be spending a week in Bonnie Jockland in July and don't want to get trapped on the wrong side of the border after it closes.

[Herr-Berbunch]

When do they go to the polls? I'm going to be spending a week in Bonnie Jockland in July and don't want to get trapped on the wrong side of the border after it closes.

If you're there you might get a vote, seeing as the 366k English living in Scotland will do, but the 800k Scots elsewhere won't.

[Bilge_Rat]

Having gone through two of these "independence" referendums myself (Quebec 1980 and 1995), I am glad to be the outside observer on this one. :D

BTW, the currency argument was used here in the 1980 referendum. The PQ was arguing for a common currency, the Feds said no way.

As Karl Marx said, history always repeats itself twice, once as tragedy and the second time as farce.

Good luck, Chaps.

[TarJak]

If you're there you might get a vote, seeing as the 366k English living in Scotland will do, but the 800k Scots elsewhere won't. I'll get my pen out. The wife and kids have pommy citizenship so we can skew the vote for small fee. :)

[Herr-Berbunch]

I'll get my pen out. The wife and kids have pommy citizenship so we can skew the vote for small fee. :)

I don't think it's needed, but I could be wrong.

[Jimbuna]

When do they go to the polls? I'm going to be spending a week in Bonnie Jockland in July and don't want to get trapped on the wrong side of the border after it closes.

September.

[mapuc]

A thought

If the Scots "discover" this independence from England wasn't that perfect as they thought it would be. Do you think they would run back and get a second "marriage" with England?

Markus

[TarJak]

September.
Och aye. Will ye be nipping across the border to vote?

[MGR1]

A thought

If the Scots "discover" this independence from England wasn't that perfect as they thought it would be. Do you think they would run back and get a second "marriage" with England?

Markus

In a word, NO. The rest of the UK won't want Scotland back.

As much as it pains me to post this, being pro-Union, I think that Osbourne's cocked up. He's a Tory as well, which makes it much more dangerous. His intervention is actually a boon to the Nationalists, being able to play on the outrage at being "imperiously" told that Scotland can't do something.

BBC News link here:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26158234

All Osbourne's managed to do is polarise, and envenom, the debate.:down: There's going to be too much emotion for properly reasoned debate, I fear.

Mike.:(

[MGR1]

Right then, here's a list of the top ten issues that Scot's are most concerned about:

Economy
Currency
Pensions
Scotland's relationship with UK
Scotland's relationship with EU
Welfare
Defence
Immigration
Energy
Broadcasting

There was a program on BBC Two Scotland last week about it which was very interesting. If you want to have an idea what Scots are actually thinking, give it a watch. If your outwith the UK you'll need a proxy server as it's on the BBC iPlayer:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03vmb0s/Referendum_Documentaries_Scotlands_Top_Ten_Battleg rounds/

Here's the BBC News article covering it, plus an article from the Guardian:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26102076

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/2014/feb/12/scotland-referendum-sirtomhunter

Mike.

[mapuc]

Right then, here's a list of the top ten issues that Scot's are most concerned about:

Economy
Currency
Pensions
Scotland's relationship with UK
Scotland's relationship with EU
Welfare
Defence
Immigration
Energy
Broadcasting

There was a program on BBC Two Scotland last week about it which was very interesting. If you want to have an idea what Scots are actually thinking, give it a watch. If your outwith the UK you'll need a proxy server as it's on the BBC iPlayer:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03vmb0s/Referendum_Documentaries_Scotlands_Top_Ten_Battleg rounds/

Here's the BBC News article covering it, plus an article from the Guardian:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26102076

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/2014/feb/12/scotland-referendum-sirtomhunter

Mike.

Thanks for the links

Found the documentary on youtube

are watching part 1 right now
"scotland's smoking gun"

Markus

[Garion]

Right then, here's a list of the top ten issues that Scot's are most concerned about:

Economy
Currency
Pensions
Scotland's relationship with UK
Scotland's relationship with EU
Welfare
Defence
Immigration
Energy
Broadcasting

There was a program on BBC Two Scotland last week about it which was very interesting. If you want to have an idea what Scots are actually thinking, give it a watch. If your outwith the UK you'll need a proxy server as it's on the BBC iPlayer:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03vmb0s/Referendum_Documentaries_Scotlands_Top_Ten_Battleg rounds/

Here's the BBC News article covering it, plus an article from the Guardian:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26102076

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/2014/feb/12/scotland-referendum-sirtomhunter

Mike.

Yoo forgot "Will there be Duty free booze and fags if we get independence? ":arrgh!:
Cheers Jev

[Jimbuna]

Och aye. Will ye be nipping across the border to vote?

I'll probably be press ganged into rebuilding Hadrians Wall.

[Sailor Steve]

I'll probably be press ganged into rebuilding Hadrians Wall.
Well, you said you wanted a job. :O:

[Jimbuna]

Well, you said you wanted a job. :O:

LO...not after my final signing come Friday :sunny:

[MGR1]

I'll probably be press ganged into rebuilding Hadrians Wall.

Problem with that is we'd get everything north of the Tyne! That includes a big chunk of Newcastle......:D:03:

Mike.:O:

[Jimbuna]

Problem with that is we'd get everything north of the Tyne! That includes a big chunk of Newcastle......:D:03:

Mike.:O:

You get to keep the kilts and we'll settle for the coal :03:

[mapuc]

I personally don't care if Scotland becomes an independent state or not after the referendum. I Only say this

Think twice, before you make your decision, whatever you are for an independent Scotland or not.

Markus

[TarJak]

I'll probably be press ganged into rebuilding Hadrians Wall.You can put back the stones your ancestors pinched to build Newcastle with then. :O:

[Jimbuna]

You can put back the stones your ancestors pinched to build Newcastle with then. :O:

They were used to build your ancestors prisons :smug:

[Jimbuna]

The Scottish government will be able to issue its own bonds to investors in 2015 as well as having the ability to set its own Scottish income tax rate.

Salmond is still not entirely satisfied and reckons only full independance will suffice.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26245684

[MGR1]

You get to keep the kilts and we'll settle for the coal :03:

Nah, we don't need coal. We've got wind, and lot's of it. Must be true, there's been enough wind turbines popping up everywhere since the SNP came to power.:shifty:

The Scottish government will be able to issue its own bonds to investors in 2015 as well as having the ability to set its own Scottish income tax rate.

Salmond is still not entirely satisfied and reckons only full independance will suffice.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26245684

Not exactly major, increasing income tax has been on the cards for a while. They haven't done it as Scot's don't like paying tax anymore than the rest of the UK does. They'd probably lose votes. The bonds option will probably go over most people's heads, unless it's explained properly.:hmmm:

Mike.:)

[Jimbuna]

Nah, we don't need coal. We've got wind, and lot's of it. Must be true, there's been enough wind turbines popping up everywhere since the SNP came to power.:shifty:



Well Salmond must be the source of it all :O:

[TarJak]

They were used to build your ancestors prisons :smug: Quite possibly, as I'm sure a few may have been Tyneside villains. :know:

[TarJak]

Nah, we don't need coal. We've got wind, and lot's of it. Must be true, there's been enough wind turbines popping up everywhere since the SNP came to power.:shifty:
Is that from the baked beans or the politicians?

[Jimbuna]

Is that from the baked beans or the politicians?

Salmond :)

[TarJak]

Smoked or fresh?

[Tango589]

Tinned.

[BossMark]

I'm getting beside myself with worry.

If Scotland vote for independence Britain won't have a curling team at the next winter Olympics.

[Jimbuna]

Smoked or fresh?

Tinned.

Probably poached :)

[BossMark]

David Bowie: Scotland, stay with us.

Pack your bags folks, looks like all 5m Jocks are off to New York!

[Jimbuna]

Alexei Salmon, Jacobite King in waiting and a descendant of William Wallace is set to charge down with a broadsword on horseback with Catalonian mercenaries and take the pasty faced Sassenachs by surprise when he wins the Independence referendum next spring :doh:

[Dread Knot]

Watching the rhetoric heat up on both sides, I'm finding it more difficult to see how relations between the UK and Scotland can quite ever return to the status quo after the referendum, regardless of the vote.

[Jimbuna]

Watching the rhetoric heat up on both sides, I'm finding it more difficult to see how relations between the UK and Scotland can quite ever return to the status quo after the referendum, regardless of the vote.

Well I certainly can't see England invading Scotland again should the vote go for independence :)

[Dread Knot]

Well I certainly can't see England invading Scotland again should the vote go for independence :)

No, I don't see that either.

I think the sentiments will be along the lines of, "don't let the door hit you on the way out" and " write if you find work....if you can find work." :D

[Oberon]

Naaah.


Now Scotland invading England on the other hand... :haha:

[Jimbuna]

No, I don't see that either.

I think the sentiments will be along the lines of, "don't let the door hit you on the way out" and " write if you find work....if you can find work." :D

Spoken like a true English Geordie :cool:

[Dread Knot]

Spoken like a true English Geordie :cool:

I could go for canny bag o' Tudas right now.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icnewcastle/jun2005/6/0/000C2DB6-F56B-12BB-98750C01AC1BF814.jpg

[Jimbuna]

I find this article quite interesting and gives one food for thought from the opposite perspective.

Try to read it all before looking at the authors opinion at the end.

Should the English have a say on Scottish independence?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26173128

[Garion]

The English people that live in Scotland will have a say and every third voice I hear in East Lothian where I live is of English origin.

The Scottish Economy being subsidized by England is a bit of a mystery to me.

The oil that is left under the sea is the big factor in this, most of the money gained by it goes down to Westminster where it is squandered.

If Scotland Leaves the Union then that money will stay here, even if it's only for forty years, but forty years is a long time.

My girls have a Norwegian friend that attends the same university and he just can't understand why we are in the mess we are in. He has actually said to me that the further south he travels the better things are. I can niether prove or disprove that statement it is just his opinion.

I am fed up being a second class citizen in my own country, our currency is even refused in England.

On a military note, I was brought up on war movies where more often than not the protagonist would encourage his men to fight for England not Great Britain.

Only to find out that there were more Scots, Australians, New Zealander's, Indians, Canadians, Welsh and Northern Irish fighting than Englishmen.

When people from other nations refer to Great Britain as England and spout that Scotland is part of England.

That sticks not only in my throat but I would hazard that most Scots feel the same.

DO I hate the English and England? Hell No!. I have many friends in England and have served in the Royal Navy.

DO I think that Scottish MP's should have a say in matters that only concern England? Hell No!

The reason I am voting YES in the referendum is because something has to change. If we get independence at it works then that would be great. If fail well... At least we wont be able to blame the English :D

Sorry Jim for my rant, I know it's wee niggly reasons, but after a while the niggly reasons explode.

Peace
Gary

[mapuc]

The English people that live in Scotland will have a say and every third voice I hear in East Lothian where I live is of English origin.

The Scottish Economy being subsidized by England is a bit of a mystery to me.

The oil that is left under the sea is the big factor in this, most of the money gained by it goes down to Westminster where it is squandered.

If Scotland Leaves the Union then that money will stay here, even if it's only for forty years, but forty years is a long time.

My girls have a Norwegian friend that attends the same university and he just can't understand why we are in the mess we are in. He has actually said to me that the further south he travels the better things are. I can niether prove or disprove that statement it is just his opinion.

I am fed up being a second class citizen in my own country, our currency is even refused in England.

On a military note, I was brought up on war movies where more often than not the protagonist would encourage his men to fight for England not Great Britain.

Only to find out that there were more Scots, Australians, New Zealander's, Indians, Canadians, Welsh and Northern Irish fighting than Englishmen.

When people from other nations refer to Great Britain as England and spout that Scotland is part of England.

That sticks not only in my throat but I would hazard that most Scots feel the same.

DO I hate the English and England? Hell No!. I have many friends in England and have served in the Royal Navy.

DO I think that Scottish MP's should have a say in matters that only concern England? Hell No!

The reason I am voting YES in the referendum is because something has to change. If we get independence at it works then that would be great. If fail well... At least we wont be able to blame the English :D

Sorry Jim for my rant, I know it's wee niggly reasons, but after a while the niggly reasons explode.

Peace
Gary


A question from an outsider, would you respect a no? Would you respect the result if it is a no to a Scottish independent?

Markus

[Sailor Steve]

Sorry Jim for my rant, I know it's wee niggly reasons, but after a while the niggly reasons explode.
I've stayed out of this thread as I have no business and no opinion. I just wanted to say that there are different kinds of rants, and I found yours to be well thought out. Whether somebody agrees or disagrees, you were careful to cite your reasons and state them clearly, and even inject a bit of humor.

Either way it ends up going, I hope it works out for the best.

[Garion]

A question from an outsider, would you respect a no? Would you respect the result if it is a no to a Scottish independent?

Markus

Yes, if the result is NO, then I will respect that outcome.

Like many on these forums I have seen too much death and destruction in my life to contemplate any armed insurrection, I am too auld anyway:arrgh!:

Cheers

Gary

[BossMark]

Here is the latest odds from William Hill
No 1/4
yes 3/1

So that is what the bookies think, the no vote will win easy

[Jimbuna]

Sorry Jim for my rant, I know it's wee niggly reasons, but after a while the niggly reasons explode.



You've no need to apoligise to me Gary, you, like me are entitled to an opinion and I can honestly say I agree with a great deal of what you posted.

My main concern is Salmond being unwilling to take on his fair share of the national debt or being selective with the truth to his electorate about the additional income from taxation that will be needed to maintain free prescriptions etc.

Until recently I was all for maintaining the Union and still believe the No vote will prevail but Salmond is one guy I honestly believe is not fit to be First Minister of your fine country.

We'll have a definitive answer come September.

[Garion]

Hi Jim

It is really all turning into smoke and mirrors with the "he says this, she says that, somebody else says something else. All we can do is look at the evidence and believe what we believe.

A yes vote is not a vote for Alec Salmond, elections will be held and we will see what we shall see.

As for the National Debt, the Nationalists will say that we have been paying it from the 1970's. Personally I see no problem in paying off a fair share.

As for extra taxation, if people over the past few decades were more willing to accept a minimal tax increase then maybe would not have all the stealth taxes we have now. When I started work I paying 30% tax, there was no VAT or any of the rip off taxes we have now.

modern people seem to have forgotten that yoo can't get out fir n'owt. So I am happy to pay a higher tax. *This from a Scotsman) :o

Cheers

Gary

[STEED]

Wake me up when all the political wind bags stop strutting around pumped full of funny pills.

[STEED]

NORTH SEA OIL WAR!

[Jimbuna]

Here is potentially another 5000 jobs at risk.

Standard Life's announcement that it may move operations outside Scotland in the event of independence has sparked a political row.

The company said it was putting the contingency plan in place because of uncertainty over issues like currency.

The Scottish government said the move demonstrated its post-Yes currency union plan was the right option.

Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg said he was not surprised by the announcement.

The intervention came ahead of the Scottish independence referendum, on 18 September.

Meanwhile, in a separate development, credit ratings agency Standard and Poor's gave its assessment of the viability of an independent Scotland, saying, "the challenge for Scotland to go it alone would be significant, but not unsurpassable".

Edinburgh-based Standard Life - which has been based in Scotland for 189 years - employs about 5,000 people north of the border out of a total headcount of 8,500.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26364418

[gordonmull]

The actual statement by standard life can be read here. It's not nearly so dramatic: http://www.standardlife.com/utility/customer_statement.html

At no point do they say they are pulling out.

Standard and Poor actually gives us a glowing report. http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/repository/StandardAndPoorsKeyConsiderations.pdf

As to the Currency union, Westminster are playing a very dangerous game here. They either recognise Scotland as a successor state or as a continuing state. They can't have it both ways. I personally think this is deliberate manoevering by the SNP to force Westminster into a corner. They can't go back on a currency union now. Scotland would be quids in without paying their share of the debt, but we will only do that if we get the CU.

I want to make this absolutely clear - Scotland has no obligation to the debt. Westminster has already made it clear that rUK will be solely responsible for it. http://archive.is/k7x0s Offering to send money to the rUK to help them service their debt is only out of goodwill. The currency union is only out of goodwill. The Scottish Government's Fiscal Commission stated that the CU was in the best interests of Scotland and rUK. Not in the pure interests of Scotland. Scottish Sterling would be in Scotland's best interests, according to the Adam Smith Institute.

The CU and foreign aid from Scotland to help service the rUK's national debt is the only option for the rUK or the arse will fall out of Sterling very quickly as financial markets realise that 10% of the population has gone, along with a significant proportion of GDP. I don't want to see that happen so I support a CU with an agreement for Scotland to shoulder her per capita share of the debt. Unfortunately I think the SNP has other ideas as Scotland would be far better off without that huge financial burden in her starting years.

The most sinister thing to come out of the whole wrangling over this affair is that Westminster has stated that if Scotland doesn't negotiate on their terms that they might ignore the democratic will of the people, in contravention of the Edinburgh Agreement and Article 1 paragraph 2 of the Charter of the United Nations. Yet it's barely talked about. How's that for a slap in the face? I'll reference that when it's not so late at night.

Anyhoo, either way, we can do it. I just wish that the media might focus as much on the positives as it does on the negatives. I'm hoping for a Yes and that Scotland might upset the Westminster applecart badly enough for rUK to wake up and kick the three Tory parties and their City cohorts out once and for all.

Above all, and politics aside, visiting sassanachs can still expect a warm welcome, hot food, good craic, a nice bed to sleep in and to be sent home entirely devoid of sobriety but with a strange sense of longing. (Unless they are David Cameron & co). As to the ones that stay here - why do you think they stay here? It's a better quality of life. I can say that as someone who's lived both north and south of the border. I'm optimistic that the English immigrant vote will be quite highly in favour of independence. It's their country too now.

[STEED]

Tonight's big bout is...

Salmond Vs Cameron

[Jimbuna]

More like Tom and Jerry.

[Tango589]

More like Tom and Jerry.
More like Pinky and Perky: two pigs at the trough

[STEED]

More like Pinky and Perky: two pigs at the trough


One eating pies the other eating money.

[Tango589]

:haha:

[BossMark]

There's an Englishman, an Irishman and a Welshman...

It used to be a Scotsman, but he wants to go it alone so sod him.

[Jimbuna]

One very crude and the other full of gas.

[gordonmull]

There's an Englishman, an Irishman and a Welshman...

It used to be a Scotsman, but he wants to go it alone so sod him.

Oh we'll still be there. We're not going to set adrift and sail to the middle of the Atlantic:rotfl2: Just doing it our own way :up: Mind we are already a country in our own right, just with a (supposed) unified parliament. Always have been. ATM we are just voting on whether that agreement is what we want. I won't mention the stuff that's been done to us - you have an internet for that. Still, you won't find much on there about ethnic cleansing in Scotland, I suppose.

Anyway, the English and Welsh should be happy if Scotland goes independent: for the first time in a very long time you can go on holiday abroad by car and drink decent beer while you're there:03:

[THEBERBSTER]

When you think over hundreds of years the Scottish Clans fought the English for their independence and were killed for it in their thousands.
Scotland now has the chance of independence and can honour their forefathers by claiming their rights and doing the decent thing.
Commercialism and lethargy unfortunately is likely to win the day.

[Herr-Berbunch]

. . . you can go on holiday abroad by car and drink decent beer while you're there:03:

:har:

Here is a link to the joke thread - http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=184647

[MGR1]

I think Jim will like this:03::

http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/local/alex-salmond-warned-he-s-unwelcome-on-aberdeen-council-property-1.249947

Mind you, if Aberdeen City Clowncil actually spent it's money properly instead of on White Elephants, the latest civic fad (trams at the moment) etc, a lot of Aberdeen's roads would actually be roads and not rally tracks.:down:

For those of you in England who may not know, FirstGroup started out as Grampian Regional Transport (owned by Aberdeen City Council, remember this bit.) prior to deregulation and amalgamation with various English companies.

Why do you think their Headquarters are still in Aberdeen? And FirstAberdeen having an effective monopoly on bus travel plus the highest bus fares in Scotland. I'm not being suspicious, honest.:hmmm:

Mike.

[Jimbuna]

I think the sooner September comes and the votes are cast and the independence decision is made, the better for the United Kingdom and the Scottish Crimean peninsular :)

[THEBERBSTER]

SCOTLAND THE BRAVE

SCOTLAND BE BRAVE

[STEED]

I see Salmond is borderline banging the war drum!

Is England about to face yet another Jacobite up rising?

[Jimbuna]

I see Salmond is borderline banging the war drum!

Is England about to face yet another Jacobite up rising?

We'll simply blockade their ports...it's not as if they'll have a navy :)

[Herr-Berbunch]

Saw Rab C Nesbit on BBC News 24 yesterday evening giving a speech in London. I was wishing that South African translator would come on with his balloons.

[STEED]

We'll simply blockade their ports...it's not as if they'll have a navy :)


Outlaw this...

http://www.thedrinkshop.com/images/products/main/1646/1646.jpg

And watch those Scots sober up and going screaming over a cliff top.

[Jimbuna]

Outlaw this...

http://www.thedrinkshop.com/images/products/main/1646/1646.jpg

And watch those Scots sober up and going screaming over a cliff top.

Better still...

http://s17.postimg.org/a1378e8m7/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[Dread Knot]

I see Ladbrokes betting are now predicting a Yes vote of 40%, which if I recall is down 1% since the last time I looked.

I should check to see if Vega$ has odds on this.

[STEED]

Better still...

http://s17.postimg.org/a1378e8m7/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Mass extinction of Scotland. :o

[gordonmull]

We'll simply blockade their ports...it's not as if they'll have a navy :)

We don't need a navy. We'll swim out and bite your ships to death :arrgh!:.

Brilliant, Steed, Jim, we'll ban their war paint and spears and anything else they like. THEY. Us people who are lesser than you? It's weird because I always think of English people as equals. Try and see it from our side. Christ, my grandfather was beaten for speaking Gaelic in the playground. The destruction of a nations culture, the burning of their literature, that's acceptable, that's even funny? There are abanonded dwellings all over the island I grew up on because of English rule. There was a population of 10000. Now there is about 2000 and getting to that figure is comparatively recent, i.e. in my 37 year lifetime. Up from 800. Go on, take a holiday to mull and ask someone to show you a blackhouse. Stand in it's ruins and say you don't feel the slightest bit sorry for whoever lived there. There is a region on the island known as Glengorm. It means Blue Valley. It was blue from the smoke of the burning dwellings, this is how it got its name, from people being burned out of their homes. Despite all this we've stood peacefully and faithfully by England, fought in many wars and yet all we get is insults and belittlement when we say "enough".

Anyway, we Scots are pretty sensitive, or some of us are, because we've had some pretty appalling things done to our country. It doesn't mean we should completely fragment the UK. I just want the respect of a sovereign country in a union of nations. If Westminster had tabled that then most Scots would have gone for it. Instead they poked the hornet's nest and woe betide them if they **** us about. The Germans called us the Ladies From Hell for a reason. Westminster is going about it the right way to call the Ladies up on the side they don't want them.

Anyway. Harrrumph. Youse guys didn't personally do those bad things to us so I still love you the same as I always have, even if you don't quite get it. I can only liken it to a battered wife. Many of us are too angry, ashamed and humiliated to walk away, even though we know it makes sense.

Jim, Steed, I've enjoyed reading your posts over many years and I hope I've not offended you.

I'll leave you with this. If you watch, you might get it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iXRcs-oS0E&sns=fb
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iXRcs-oS0E&sns=fb)

[Jimbuna]

Jim, Steed, I've enjoyed reading your posts over many years and I hope I've not offended you.


You've certainly not offended me Gordon and I shouldn't imagine STEED either.

As serious a topic as this can be and is for some I'd simply ask you to take it in the humorous context it is intended (in the main).


I'll leave you with this. If you watch, you might get it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iXRcs-oS0E&sns=fb
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iXRcs-oS0E&sns=fb)

Look at the benefits...less electricity usage in the hours of darkness because everything will glow in the dark :O:

[Jimbuna]

Looks like Shell are in favour of the Union.

The chief executive of the oil company Shell has said he would like Scotland to "remain part of the UK".

Addressing the company's annual reception in London on Wednesday, Ben van Beurden said he valued the "continuity and stability" of the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26461833

[gordonmull]

Aye, you're right Jim. It's good to get some humorous release sometimes.

Many Scots are just a bit more touchy at the moment because we're being insulted and patronised from every angle. We're getting fed up of being taken as too wee, too poor and too stupid.

In the interests of humour, here's a pro-indy vid that had me in stitches: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SvdecwnYJ4&feature=share# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SvdecwnYJ4&feature=share)
EDIT - BTW if you ban our Irn Bru and Buckie we'll just do what we've always done in response to Westminster party-pooping. Illicit drinks production in caves!

[MGR1]

Looks like Shell are in favour of the Union.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26461833

Yep, but he wants the UK to stay in the EU as well:

"That's the chief reason we're in favour of the UK maintaining its long-established place at the heart of the European Union: it provides greater investment stability and certainty."

That's what it all boils down to - big business doesn't like uncertainty of any type. They obviously aren't enamoured of either debate.

I think the European head of Nissan(?) said the same thing a while ago too.:hmmm:

Mike.:)

[Jimbuna]

I think the European head of Nissan(?) said the same thing a while ago too.:hmmm:

Mike.:)

Most certainly did and without them the north east would be royally knackered.

[BossMark]

If the Scots vote for independence , they may not be allowed to keep the English Pound ;

Question is , will England be allowed to keep the Scotland Yard?

[Garion]

We do have the 'Scottish Pound' up here :woot:

Cheers

Gary

[Jimbuna]

The latest viewpoint in this monetary tennis match.

A deal on sharing control of the pound between an independent Scotland and the rest of the UK is "unlikely", analysts at the global bank Citigroup have said.

They also said it was "astonishing" the Scottish government did not have a currency union alternative.

Scotland's fiscal deficit was "now significantly above UK levels" because of a recent fall in oil revenues.

Scotland's "large" banking system, with bank assets of more than 1,000% of Scotland's annual GDP, might be too big for the country to bail out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26489307

[gordonmull]

They also said it was "astonishing" the Scottish government did not have a currency union alternative.This is an often repeated myth. They do. In fact they have several. All already outlined in the Fiscal Commission Working Group's report, and perfectly accessible to a BBC that was in any way trying to present a balanced discussion. What the Scottish Government has said is that they will push for currency union, but that will be a post referendum negotiation.


Scotland's fiscal deficit was "now significantly above UK levels" because of a recent fall in oil revenues.

Scotland's "large" banking system, with bank assets of more than 1,000% of Scotland's annual GDP, might be too big for the country to bail out. Oil is volatile in price but yet Standard and Poor's report states that even without taking oil revenues into account we'd still be given an excellent credit rating. It's not the sort of independent assessment that would give me cause to worry about financial instability.

I just should also point out that I'm a Green not a frothing SNP cybernat lol :) I don't really support an oil economy, obviously, but I think Scotland's got a particularly profitable future in renewables, so I don't really see us as oil dependent.