Really bewildered by TMO optional mods!

[Dux Ducis Hodiernus]

Since the descriptions about the optional mods are either minimal, ambigious, or just plain non existant, I have some questions about them.

1; The mod manual says that "The effectiveness of surface search radar in TMO 2.0 is variable,if you choose to install this optional mod."

Then proceeds to list detection values that I assume is from this optional mod(which I assume to be TMO_Alternate_JS_Radar_Performance).

Then it proceeds to say "Note 2: If you do not agree with this model for radar performance, an optional mod with fixed radar detection ranges is available in the documentation directory of TMO 2.0".

What does this mean? It sounds here, that If I don't want the alternate detection values, I should install an optional mod, not the other way around?! What would this mod be, even? I don't see any other mod that would make sense except the "TMO_Alternate_JS_Radar_Performance", which I thought was supposed to enable it? What.


2; Do you guys like to use this optional mod with TMO? Should I use it? Does it provide for a more enjoyable/immersive experience?



3; Subtextures_fooskin is what, exactly? I tried googling it (https://www.google.se/search?num=100&espv=210&es_sm=93&q=TMO+SubTextures+fooskin&oq=TMO+SubTextures+fooskin&gs_l=serp.3...15194.17142.0.17321.4.4.0.0.0.0.79.2 57.4.4.0....0...1c.1.32.serp..4.0.0.VwwLB5rd2xQ), but the only results I found was people saying their mod loading list. I mean seriously, how can there be so little information about something like this?


4; TMO_Metric_SpeedChart_Nomo is what? It just changes the speedchart to metric? What does the Nomo stand for?

5; TMO_Alt_engineSounds? Good? Bad? Do you use it?

6; How many of you use RSRDC? Is it a big improvement? Should I stick with TMO default?

7; Any other optional mods you'd recommend? :06:

8; Anything else that might be helpful to me?(Tips, information, advice, etc).


edit: Also, for some reason I can't turn on any radar thingies, even when I got surface search radar, and air radar, when pressing the "on" button it refuses to move/start. Also, my crew have often detected(via hydrophones) ships far away, that, when I use the hydrophones, I can't seem to hear/make the green light go on, even when I know its exact bearing(via observations from the lookout) Is this a bug, or am I missing something? Seems the crew might be somehow skipping limitations caused by being surfaced, rough weather, etc.

Also my native(and by far most liked) system is metric, and it's what I play with. However the torps and distance/speed etc predictions on info stuffs and maps are all subpar imperial. Should I change and use this very weird, and a bit illogical imperial instead, just so its a bit more universal? How do you do when it comes to stuff like this? What's your preference?

[CapnScurvy]

I'll let other folks answer some of your other questions. The "Nomo" is the Nomograph that's viewed on the right side of the Navigation Map. Its used to find speed of a target when both distance and time traveled are known. By using the maps tools to "mark" a specific targets position, you measure its distance traveled.....compared to the time it took to travel that distance (use the stopwatch)......and using the same tools to draw a straight line, you simply connect the dots on the Nomograph. You start a line from the right side column for Time Traveled, draw it through the center Distance Traveled column, and find the Traveled Speed at the other end. A very handy tool when "map plotting" a targets course.

The reason you can't turn on the radar units (even though their modeled) is because you don't have them installed yet. Early in the war, surface search Radar wasn't installed on the boats, its not until mid 1942 will you get the "offer" to have radar put onto your older boat. The newer boats will have radar installed when you receive command of them. The developers of the game had plans on installing "covers" over the radar units (their in the 3D models) but they didn't implement them into the game. What you see, is what you get. SD radar (the air search radar) is on the boat, but the two screens you're seeing are only for the SJ radar (the surface search radar). You're told of an approaching plane through the Message Text Box only. You won't be able to see the plane using TMO's radar (when you do finally get it).

The ability to hear a hydrophone contact by you (even though your sound man states there is one) is a flaw in the game when a ship travels less than half its maximum rated speed. Some mods have ship routes where the ship will change its speed during travel. If this ship has an 11 knot maximum speed in its file, and the route calls for it to travel at 5 knots between two waypoints.....you'll not hear it when you use the hydrophone station. I just ran across this flaw the other day, and have started to fix the problem in my future mods. Seven years after the game is released and we're still finding problems with it!

As far as the measuring system used.....if your playing the American side, USE THE IMPERIAL SYSTEM (although its not called Imperial in this country....we dumped the Imperials in 1776!). The developers expected you to use the metric system when playing the Germans in SHIII. Even to the point of having the German language spoken during the game. That's fine for SHIII, but if your playing an American Submarine Simulation why not simulate what measuring system was really used? :yeah:

[Dux Ducis Hodiernus]

Thanks for the advice/help.





The reason you can't turn on the radar units (even though their modeled) is because you don't have them installed yet. Early in the war, surface search Radar wasn't installed on the boats, its not until mid 1942 will you get the "offer" to have radar put onto your older boat. The newer boats will have radar installed when you receive command of them. The developers of the game had plans on installing "covers" over the radar units (their in the 3D models) but they didn't implement them into the game. What you see, is what you get. SD radar (the air search radar) is on the boat, but the two screens you're seeing are only for the SJ radar (the surface search radar). You're told of an approaching plane through the Message Text Box only. You won't be able to see the plane using TMO's radar (when you do finally get it).

(Bolded the part I'm talking about)

But I installed surface search radar(as well as air radar) via the submarine setup thingy, where you can change guns and other equipment. That doesn't count?



Also the reason why it wasnt obvious to me to use the imperial system, is because, to be frank, in comparison to the uniform and logical metric system, it's quite stupid and I have no idea about the units, and having like 34 feet to the yard(making stuff up because I am clueless) and 120yards to the mile is quite weird. But I'll guess I just have to use it anyways. It's not like I would have to do much conversion anyways, just that it feels weird using a less pragmatic system of units.

[Dux Ducis Hodiernus]

Also, another question. What is crew berthing room for? Is it just sleeping quarters/idling room, or does it have any use? Want to know if I can leave it unoccupied without any difference made.

[CapnScurvy]

I installed surface search radar(as well as air radar) via the submarine setup thingy, where you can change guns and other equipment. That doesn't count?


Yes, it should. If the offer for upgrading to SJ equipment was made and you actually "Have it on Boat" (the middle information box will say this) after you mouse drag the equipment over to the "empty" slot,....you should have it in-game.

The U.S. Customary unit of measurement is certainly different than the metric system. Yet, if you are thinking in the right frame of mind, its quite logical. You need to think in fractions of a whole more often than in quantities of 10, 100, 1000. The system of length is based mainly on average human body part dimensions that reflect a man's foot length (broken down into a dozen equal parts, 1/12 of a foot is 1 inch). Width of his out stretched arms is 1 yard (equal to 3 feet; 1/3 of a yard is one foot). One statute mile is said to have been equal to 1000 paces of the Roman army, when they would count "left/right".

In Nautical terms, one fathom of depth is equal to 2 yards, or 6 feet. One Nautical Mile is equal to one minute (1/60th) of a degree. One degree is 1/360th of the circumference of the earth. Fractions play an important part in our world, thinking in fractions makes the U.S. Customary a bit easier to follow. I'm not saying one system is better than another, but to me, thinking in fractions of a whole makes perfect sense.

The crew berthing room is for stashing away your conning tower crew in a safe environment when being attacked by depth charges. Leaving them in the conning tower makes them vulnerable when you don't have plans to use them. Think of the berthing room as being inside the main hull of the ship, unlike the conning tower that sits on top of the deck.

[Dux Ducis Hodiernus]

Yet, if you are thinking in the right frame of mind, its quite logical. You need to think in fractions of a whole more often than in quantities of 10, 100, 1000. The system of length is based mainly on average human body part dimensions that reflect a man's foot length (broken down into a dozen equal parts, 1/12 of a foot is 1 inch). Width of his out stretched arms is 1 yard (equal to 3 feet; 1/3 of a yard is one foot). One statute mile is said to have been equal to 1000 paces of the Roman army, when they would count "left/right".

Converting between fractions is a whole lot more logical than converting between one third, or 12th, etc. Not to mention easier. However I do understand that imperial system made sense back in its day, but compared to metric, it's convoluted and messy. I am playing using it for the game atm though, now, since it's practical to use the units the game information and tools do, not to mention historical. If the Americans back then didn't have the luxury of being able to straightforwardly convert a mile to a yard, then I guess it's fair that I don't get to either.

Thanks for your advice though.


Now I just really really need someone to help me with the main question, that is, the optional mods! How can there be so little documentation?! lol.

[Dux Ducis Hodiernus]

Considering how relatively popular it is, at least someone has to be able to answer this question, if not the ones about the optional mods:

"6; How many of you use RSRDC? Is it a big improvement? Should I stick with TMO default?"

[HertogJan]

Last posted question first:

It's all about how you want to play the game really...

Do you want to play the game with hystorical convoy routes and battles as they happend (times, locations and such <- yes, they are in there) install RSRDC.
Or do you wan to play the game without knowing all that, then don't install.



Since the descriptions about the optional mods are either minimal, ambigious, or just plain non existant, I have some questions about them.

1; The mod manual says that "The effectiveness of surface search radar in TMO 2.0 is variable,if you choose to install this optional mod."

Then proceeds to list detection values that I assume is from this optional mod(which I assume to be TMO_Alternate_JS_Radar_Performance).

Then it proceeds to say "Note 2: If you do not agree with this model for radar performance, an optional mod with fixed radar detection ranges is available in the documentation directory of TMO 2.0".

What does this mean? It sounds here, that If I don't want the alternate detection values, I should install an optional mod, not the other way around?! What would this mod be, even? I don't see any other mod that would make sense except the "TMO_Alternate_JS_Radar_Performance", which I thought was supposed to enable it? What.


2; Do you guys like to use this optional mod with TMO? Should I use it? Does it provide for a more enjoyable/immersive experience?

Can't help you here, don't use them :-?

3; Subtextures_fooskin is what, exactly? I tried googling it (https://www.google.se/search?num=100&espv=210&es_sm=93&q=TMO+SubTextures+fooskin&oq=TMO+SubTextures+fooskin&gs_l=serp.3...15194.17142.0.17321.4.4.0.0.0.0.79.2 57.4.4.0....0...1c.1.32.serp..4.0.0.VwwLB5rd2xQ), but the only results I found was people saying their mod loading list. I mean seriously, how can there be so little information about something like this?

Just what it says, it's a skin (paint job) for your sub. Think its pink ;)


4; TMO_Metric_SpeedChart_Nomo is what? It just changes the speedchart to metric? What does the Nomo stand for?

Has been answered by CapnScurvy

5; TMO_Alt_engineSounds? Good? Bad? Do you use it?

Simply try them out, if you don't like the sounds uninstall them!

6; How many of you use RSRDC? Is it a big improvement? Should I stick with TMO default?

Like I said, it's about what you want/like in this game.

7; Any other optional mods you'd recommend? :06:

I understand there are a lot of Mod's out there which enhances the game, however, Mod soup's are so personal you'll need to test and see which you like.
I also understand this doesn't help much but people will tell you to use Mod X, Y or Z because they like them not because you like them.

My advice would be:
Go to the Download section and download the Mod's you find interesting, then read the documentation and the release thread for Mod compatibility and such, then try them out. Start small, only a couple of Mod's at a time, test the game and add a couple more.

8; Anything else that might be helpful to me?(Tips, information, advice, etc).

Depends on your skill level, on this page you'll find a lot of information.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795
If you want sonar explained, go to "Ducimus Link" you'll understand what you'll need to do to avoid detection.


edit: Also, for some reason I can't turn on any radar thingies, even when I got surface search radar, and air radar, when pressing the "on" button it refuses to move/start. Also, my crew have often detected(via hydrophones) ships far away, that, when I use the hydrophones, I can't seem to hear/make the green light go on, even when I know its exact bearing(via observations from the lookout) Is this a bug, or am I missing something? Seems the crew might be somehow skipping limitations caused by being surfaced, rough weather, etc.

Also my native(and by far most liked) system is metric, and it's what I play with. However the torps and distance/speed etc predictions on info stuffs and maps are all subpar imperial. Should I change and use this very weird, and a bit illogical imperial instead, just so its a bit more universal? How do you do when it comes to stuff like this? What's your preference?

CapnScurvy answered that one too.


Hope this gave you a bit more info


HJ

[fireftr18]

RSRDC is a mod that converts the traffic layers to historical accuracy. The battles are as accurately portrayed as near as the game would allow. The convoys and single merchants follow historical accurate routes, but are still random. You will get reports of a convoy or task force on a certain route and the projected time and location it may be found. You will find that there are fewer ships to be found, but it is closer to historical accuracy. I use it, and I love it.

[Dux Ducis Hodiernus]

RSRDC is a mod that converts the traffic layers to historical accuracy. The battles are as accurately portrayed as near as the game would allow. The convoys and single merchants follow historical accurate routes, but are still random. You will get reports of a convoy or task force on a certain route and the projected time and location it may be found. You will find that there are fewer ships to be found, but it is closer to historical accuracy. I use it, and I love it.

If I use RSRDC, should I use some sort of air mod with it as well? Heard that the airforce is a bit broken in terms of realism, finding you too easy under the water and sutch.

[fireftr18]

If I use RSRDC, should I use some sort of air mod with it as well? Heard that the airforce is a bit broken in terms of realism, finding you too easy under the water and sutch.

RSRDC also makes adjustments to the air patrols. I think it makes them more historically accurate. Remember, from the air, something can be seen as far deep as 100'.

[Admiral Halsey]

RSRDC also makes adjustments to the air patrols. I think it makes them more historically accurate. Remember, from the air, something can be seen as far deep as 100'.

Especially if you use the mod that returns the planes back to their evil TMO versions.

[merc4ulfate]

No two people will use the same mods. Most of what others do is also trial and error as to what mods they prefer and why. My list is this:

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
1_TMO_25_small_patch
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
Traveller Mod v2.6 TMO
#1 Real Environment mod install
Traveller Mod 2.6 Patch 1 - ISE v3 Patch
#4 Warships retextured
Traveller Mod 2.6 No Midway Transfer
Traveller Mod 2.6 No DC Camera Shake
Traveller Mod 2.6 Larger Search Patterns
Traveller Mod 2.6 Harder Enemy AI Escorts
Traveller Mod 2.6 Automatic Ship ID
Traveller Alternate Main Loading Screens
Convoy Routes TMO+RSRD
tambor198's TMO+RSRDC missions pack
==============================


Why two radar mods, well that is because if you have one with settings "A" and you adjust them to settings "B" you can no longer call it the A mod. You will find many sensor mods and no two of them are the same. You can ever create your own.

Subtexturefooskin ... self explanatory. It is a texture for the submarine. Textures and/or skin is a term used to describe the painted 3d model. These skins can be found for all areas of the boat as well as AI's in sub folders at the game installation directory. The foo skin is simply a different texture. You apply it ... you look at it ... you say yeah I like it and keep it or you say no I don't and remove the mod.


The point is no one can tell you if it is good or bad to use a mod if that choice is a personal preference. Some will like a particular mod while other will not.

I have tried many mods over the years. I also run a mods list for the German Uboat and as with the american side people will run their own preference in mods. With the Uboats I run Operation Monsun and OMEGA mods with it and several other adjustment mods.

With TMO and RSRD I enjoy the more realistic aspect of enemy traffic lanes and ship movements. I like how the game is harder because playing a stock game is boring as ever.

The largest headache you run into is when you put mods together that were never written to work together and you get odd issues or crashes. The is especially true if your using two or more large mega mods like TMO and RSRD or Operation Monsun and OMEGA. Making sure your mod order is specifically set up according to the mod creators is very important.

Some will run mods of their preference that were never written to work with TMO lets say. They may never experience an issue in the game. Then again they may not be able to save the game or have "LOAD GAME FAILURE" upon loading the saved game or any number of other issues. No one knows how the files will be affected because everyone runs a different setup.

The best I came up with was to read documentation very very well on any mod or patch. Some will same they are compatible with this mod or that one but it may have to be in a certain order. You may also have a third mod that then says it has to get in between those first two you have or it wont work correctly because it needs to be second but now your third is not second.

This is a very good game simulation in my opinion. There are many mods that do a very great many things. It takes time to find what your personal preference will be. If you ever try the German side you might find you enjoy that more and then you will have those mods list and orders to think about.

One of the nice things about this game is how so many have tried to make things more real or in some cases not realistic at all. Having a nuclear powered submarine chasing japanese is not such a realistic thing but there is a mod for it. Many have put hours upon hours into tweaking things.

Just take your time and remember the worst that can happen is you corrupt all your game file and have to reinstall the game and start over. That really is not a big deal.

On my current system I have ran Silent Hunter 4 for 5 years now without a re-installation. I know if I ever had to though it is a simple matter to start over. Sure no one wants to loose their career but I have been through careers in the game so to me it is no different than the war ending and me starting back over in 1941 ... or 1939 on the German side.

Experiment and have fun.

[Armistead]

If I use RSRDC, should I use some sort of air mod with it as well? Heard that the airforce is a bit broken in terms of realism, finding you too easy under the water and sutch.

RSRD actually nulls the evil planes of TMO that could often see you at 150ft. I haven't played TMO alone and use my own settings, but seems TMO 2.5 adjusted to where planes don't see you as easy, older versions of TMO, planes were outright ugly and unreasonable. They're a few mods to get the evil TMO planes back.

Still, RSRD planes can carry depth charges that can damage you up to 150ft. If they see you dive or planes join in to help ships attack you, be careful...always fun to have ships and planes dropping on you, worse if you get stuck in shallow water.

[_alphaBeta_]

Since the descriptions about the optional mods are either minimal, ambigious, or just plain non existant, I have some questions about them.

1; The mod manual says that "The effectiveness of surface search radar in TMO 2.0 is variable,if you choose to install this optional mod."

Then proceeds to list detection values that I assume is from this optional mod(which I assume to be TMO_Alternate_JS_Radar_Performance).

Then it proceeds to say "Note 2: If you do not agree with this model for radar performance, an optional mod with fixed radar detection ranges is available in the documentation directory of TMO 2.0".

What does this mean? It sounds here, that If I don't want the alternate detection values, I should install an optional mod, not the other way around?! What would this mod be, even? I don't see any other mod that would make sense except the "TMO_Alternate_JS_Radar_Performance", which I thought was supposed to enable it? What.

I was going to ask exactly this on the forums, as the manual does contradict itself on this subject. I've tried generating a difference report in the files, but can't still can't tell which is which. From the difference report, it does seem like the TMO_Alternate_JS_Radar_Performance mod has a precise range, and the stock one doesn't. This implies that note 2 is correct in that the optional mod has the fixed values. Can anyone confirm?

[merc4ulfate]

All you english speaking chaps need to remind yourself that wording in written form can come out a bit askew since some of these mods are written by non-english or second language english modders.

It is lovely to ask questions but do not be in to much of hurry to assume a modder is simply incorrect in what they are saying. They said it just fine it simply did not translate as well to the english speaking eyes and ears.

We have many great modders from Germany and other European non-predominantly-english speaking nations.

[Tombomsee]

No two people will use the same mods. Most of what others do is also trial and error as to what mods they prefer and why.

The point is no one can tell you if it is good or bad to use a mod if that choice is a personal preference. Some will like a particular mod while other will not.

I have tried many mods over the years. I also run a mods list for the German Uboat and as with the american side people will run their own preference in mods. With the Uboats I run Operation Monsun and OMEGA mods with it and several other adjustment mods.

With TMO and RSRD I enjoy the more realistic aspect of enemy traffic lanes and ship movements. I like how the game is harder because playing a stock game is boring as ever.

The largest headache you run into is when you put mods together that were never written to work together and you get odd issues or crashes. The is especially true if your using two or more large mega mods like TMO and RSRD or Operation Monsun and OMEGA. Making sure your mod order is specifically set up according to the mod creators is very important.

Some will run mods of their preference that were never written to work with TMO lets say. They may never experience an issue in the game. Then again they may not be able to save the game or have "LOAD GAME FAILURE" upon loading the saved game or any number of other issues. No one knows how the files will be affected because everyone runs a different setup.

The best I came up with was to read documentation very very well on any mod or patch. Some will same they are compatible with this mod or that one but it may have to be in a certain order. You may also have a third mod that then says it has to get in between those first two you have or it wont work correctly because it needs to be second but now your third is not second.

This is a very good game simulation in my opinion. There are many mods that do a very great many things. It takes time to find what your personal preference will be. If you ever try the German side you might find you enjoy that more and then you will have those mods list and orders to think about.

One of the nice things about this game is how so many have tried to make things more real or in some cases not realistic at all. Having a nuclear powered submarine chasing japanese is not such a realistic thing but there is a mod for it. Many have put hours upon hours into tweaking things.

Just take your time and remember the worst that can happen is you corrupt all your game file and have to reinstall the game and start over. That really is not a big deal.

On my current system I have ran Silent Hunter 4 for 5 years now without a re-installation. I know if I ever had to though it is a simple matter to start over. Sure no one wants to loose their career but I have been through careers in the game so to me it is no different than the war ending and me starting back over in 1941 ... or 1939 on the German side.

Experiment and have fun.

Quite astonishing how you are able to put my thoughts about all the fun and compassion I have starting over to play SH into sophisticated words (as usually ;-). Thanks again Merc, good to know there are more people out there thinking like this :yeah: