Now we're down to 2 US automakers

[Onkel Neal]

Fiat to buy full control of Chrysler (http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/01/news/companies/fiat-chrysler/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

Hmmm.... not sure what to say expect, this isn't like the 70s.:shifty:

[Betonov]

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

FIAT :haha: :haha: :haha:

Sorry, can't help it :)


Just might work though. FIAT was never shy of using new technologies.
It's actually putting cars together that's their weakspot :)
Maybe the Punto would have been a more reliable car if it was made by Yenks :)

[Jimbuna]

Neal, I'm not aware the UK has any Brit car manufacturers these days.

[Feuer Frei!]

http://www.tonu.be/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/fiat-chrysler-1024x806.jpg

[Tribesman]

Neal, I'm not aware the UK has any Brit car manufacturers these days.
Morgan?

[Jimbuna]

Morgan?

Right...I obviously should have been more detailed and typed 'mass production' :)

[Jimbuna]

Looks like it was just a formality then:

Shares in the Italian car giant fiat surged over 15% on Thursday following the announcement of its plan to buy the remaining 41% of Chrysler it does not own.

Fiat has owned a majority stake in the US company since 2009.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25571200

[Feuer Frei!]

Top 3 Car manufacturers by sales in US, 2012:

GM
Ford
Chrysler

EDIT:

Chrysler slipped, or they were forecast to slip in December 2013, below Toyota:

http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/v2_article_large/public/2013/12/23/001-volume-sales-edmunds.jpg






FIAT gets a foothold in the North American market.
They want to, and need to cut their losses in Europe.
This may be a good thing for them.

The Italian Job on the smallest of the Detroit 3 :haha:

[Oberon]

Right...I obviously should have been more detailed and typed 'mass production' :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=busPzPoXvJs

[Jimbuna]

I must be missing something here Jamie...as far as I'm aware all production line vehicles are now owned by foreign parent companies :hmmm:

[MH]

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

FIAT :haha: :haha: :haha:

Sorry, can't help it :)


Just might work though. FIAT was never shy of using new technologies.
It's actually putting cars together that's their weakspot :)
Maybe the Punto would have been a more reliable car if it was made by Yenks :)

Its a perfect match then.
American cars are very mediocre in terms of engineering and reliability.
The reason of downfall of american car companies i think.

[Oberon]

I must be missing something here Jamie...as far as I'm aware all production line vehicles are now owned by foreign parent companies :hmmm:

Indeed, but at least they're still building them here, which at the end of the day is what really matters in terms of employment.

[Betonov]

Its a perfect match then.
American cars are very mediocre in terms of engineering and reliability.
The reason of downfall of american car companies i think.

The downfall of US car manufacturers were greedy managers and CEO's.

More money was spent in bonuses, lobbying and bribes than actual design and investments.
And more and more jobs were outsourced.
You can hear all you can about Americans but I'll fight someone when it comes to defend the hardworking able American. You can build quality things, problem is you manufacture less and less.
FIAT on the other hand, like the rest of European countries, can't survive only by it's domestic market. Cars are mediocre, but they're cheap, low maintainance and very high mileage. Perfect for a lower income European that just needs some wheels.

[Jimbuna]

Indeed, but at least they're still building them here, which at the end of the day is what really matters in terms of employment.

True that and none more so than Nissan in the north east.

[MH]

The downfall of US car manufacturers were greedy managers and CEO's.

More money was spent in bonuses, lobbying and bribes than actual design and investments.
And more and more jobs were outsourced.
You can hear all you can about Americans but I'll fight someone when it comes to defend the hardworking able American. You can build quality things, problem is you manufacture less and less.


I did not say that americans can't built quality things - quite opposite , but when it comes to cars bottom line is that something went wrong.

[Sailor Steve]

I must be missing something here Jamie...as far as I'm aware all production line vehicles are now owned by foreign parent companies :hmmm:
That's probably true, but it brings up an interesting point. If Fiat has already owned the controlling interest in Chrysler for the past five years, what has changed? What will change? Will Chrysler start building Italian cars? Probably for the average car owner nothing will change at all. Perhaps construction techniques will improve. Perhaps the opposite. Perhaps more jobs will be sent overseas. Perhaps not.

That video on British manufacturing was startling, to say the least. I'm reminded of a conversation between my friend Rocky and a biker. The part of the talk involved the fact that, until found out, Harley-Davidson used Keihin carburetors, along with several other Japanese-made parts. Harley had to spend some money overcoming that embarrassment. The point of the argument was that when the biker proudly said "My Harley was made in America!", Rocky replied "So was my Kawasaki."

And it's true. In 1974 Kawasaki became the first foreign company to manufacture motor vehicles in the United States with their plant in Lincoln, Nebraska. They save time and money not having to ship products from the home country to the point-of-sale, and employ local workers and management. Only the ownership is actually overseas. So what is the difference between that and Chrysler now being owned by a foreign company? I don't know.

[Jimbuna]

That's probably true, but it brings up an interesting point. If Fiat has already owned the controlling interest in Chrysler for the past five years, what has changed? What will change? Will Chrysler start building Italian cars? Probably for the average car owner nothing will change at all. Perhaps construction techniques will improve. Perhaps the opposite. Perhaps more jobs will be sent overseas. Perhaps not.

That video on British manufacturing was startling, to say the least. I'm reminded of a conversation between my friend Rocky and a biker. The part of the talk involved the fact that, until found out, Harley-Davidson used Keihin carburetors, along with several other Japanese-made parts. Harley had to spend some money overcoming that embarrassment. The point of the argument was that when the biker proudly said "My Harley was made in America!", Rocky replied "So was my Kawasaki."

And it's true. In 1974 Kawasaki became the first foreign company to manufacture motor vehicles in the United States with their plant in Lincoln, Nebraska. They save time and money not having to ship products from the home country to the point-of-sale, and employ local workers and management. Only the ownership is actually overseas. So what is the difference between that and Chrysler now being owned by a foreign company? I don't know.

I find it rather embarrassing they can buy our companies and run them for profit in the same country we couldn't. It's not just car manufacturing either power and water companies as well a host of others are joining an ever lengthening list.

Pretty soon there'll only be the crown jewels left...or have we already sold them? :)

[Sailor Steve]

It's not just car manufacturing either power and water companies as well a host of others are joining an ever lengthening list.
Funny, our own Utah Power and Light is wholly owned and operated by Scottish Power. :sunny:

[Jimbuna]

Funny, our own Utah Power and Light is wholly owned and operated by Scottish Power. :sunny:

Not funny at all if Scotland gains independence and cuts off your supply for being allied to the English :)

[Sailor Steve]

Not funny at all if Scotland gains independence and cuts off your supply for being allied to the English :)
I'm sure there's some Chinese firm out there just waiting to take over. :dead:

[Jimbuna]

I'm sure there's some Chinese firm out there just waiting to take over. :dead:

They wouldn't dare or we'd close all the takeaways :)

[Schroeder]

They wouldn't dare or we'd close all the takeaways :)
But then half of England will starve.:o

[Aktungbby]

Funny, our own Utah Power and Light is wholly owned and operated by Scottish Power. :sunny:Polygamists in kilts!!!:o

I'm sure there's some Chinese firm out there just waiting to take over. :dead:Antactica today!; tomorrow, the imperialist round-eyed dogs!:yep:

They wouldn't dare or we'd close all the takeaways :) No wonton tacos!!!:oops:

[vienna]

The downfall of US car manufacturers were greedy managers and CEO's.

More money was spent in bonuses, lobbying and bribes than actual design and investments.
And more and more jobs were outsourced.
You can hear all you can about Americans but I'll fight someone when it comes to defend the hardworking able American. You can build quality things, problem is you manufacture less and less.
FIAT on the other hand, like the rest of European countries, can't survive only by it's domestic market. Cars are mediocre, but they're cheap, low maintainance and very high mileage. Perfect for a lower income European that just needs some wheels.

This is, indeed very true. It used to be manufactured items in the US were made and managed by people who actually cared about their products, having either invented, created, or developed their products and thereby had a singular, vested interest in the the rputation and quality of their product. In many cases, it was a family concern and the very name of the family was at stake. After the advent of the late 70s ascencion of the "bean counters", with their shiny new MBAs, and the growth of the trend towards mergers and acquisitions, American manufacturing quality and pride in ownership took a back seat to "bottom-line" considerations. It became more profitabloe (i.e., bigger bonuses for the execs) to sell a manufacturing concern rather than invest in new plant or R&D. Folloowing WW2, the Japanese were able to surpass the US in manufaturing grwoth mainly because their manufacturing infrastructure had been demolished, allowing them to "start from scratch" with new plant and procedures. The US moved forward, also, using methods learned in wartime manufacturing to creat the manufacturing boom of the late 40s, 50s, 60s, and early to mid-70s. However, after that, the amount of new plant to replace or update rapidly outmoded or declining existing plant steadily dropped. The management of the manufacturing sector increasingly moved from family-based ownership/management or "worked up from the mailroom" executives to management culled from universities and colleges with impressive degrees, but little loaylty to the companies. Also, the management ranks were being filled by persons outside of a companies field of interest (e.g., a former banking CEO running a automotive manufacturer, or a automotive exec running an electronics firm). The days of company loyalty and pride of work, at all levels of American manufaturing, are, I am afraid, long gone...


<O>

[Jimbuna]

But then half of England will starve.:o

Maybe so...but not the English :03:

[XabbaRus]

The thing with UK car manufacturers wasn't foreign companies buying them and running at a profit what we couldn't. It was a combination of rubbish management over unionisation with a labour force happy to wreck products and hence a reputation sank and the industry was done for. Then the. Japanese came and built factories. Taught new management and production techniques so that Nissan uk have one of if not the most efficient car factory in their group. They treat the workers right and everything works. The irony is that most of the top car designers are uk born and educated. Even the design houses are based in the uk. American cars I'm afraid have never had a great reputation for build or technological advance. The current Mustang still uses a live rear axle if not coach springs. All modern euro and Japanese sports cars use all round fully independent suspension. I remember being in a good few American cars from top luxury to big standard and not being more seed by the finish or style. So hopefully FIAT can bring some good changes.

[em2nought]

They should have tanked Chrysler and kept Plymouth, with Dodge as the main monicker. Still my preferred American choice of the three. Really bad thinking to not have much of anything with decent mileage. Maybe they should have just become a kit car manufacturer selling Challenger, jeep, and power wagon bodies minus a 318 that you install yourself.

[Tango589]

I'm sure there's some Chinese firm out there just waiting to take over. :dead:

They already own UK Power Networks, the electricity company in SE England.

[Jimbuna]

They already own UK Power Networks, the electricity company in SE England.

They are also going to finance the next super nuclear power station.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10384745/Chinese-companies-to-buy-big-stake-in-next-generation-of-British-nuclear-power.html

[Oberon]

They are also going to finance the next super nuclear power station.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10384745/Chinese-companies-to-buy-big-stake-in-next-generation-of-British-nuclear-power.html

Indeed, they're looking to invest outside of the PRC now, since the new Five Year Plan looks to try to stabilise the economy of the country. Furthermore, the experience and knowledge gained through helping the UK build its next gen power stations will go towards the PRCs power station construction spree.
I was chatting to some chaps from our local NPP and they told me about a design of reactor that was imported from the French in the 1990s, the 900MWe class, which produced (surprisingly enough) 900MWe, but this was not quite enough for the Chinese, who took the design, improved upon it and got it putting out 1000MWe. Their latest development of it, the ACPR-1000 will get rid of the final vestiges of the French design and enable it to be marketed abroad (since the French still own the design rights of the 900MWe).
So it's win-win really, we get our NPPs, they get their NPPs, and they get ideas they can use for their next generation of NPP.

[Jimbuna]

Indeed, they're looking to invest outside of the PRC now, since the new Five Year Plan looks to try to stabilise the economy of the country. Furthermore, the experience and knowledge gained through helping the UK build its next gen power stations will go towards the PRCs power station construction spree.
I was chatting to some chaps from our local NPP and they told me about a design of reactor that was imported from the French in the 1990s, the 900MWe class, which produced (surprisingly enough) 900MWe, but this was not quite enough for the Chinese, who took the design, improved upon it and got it putting out 1000MWe. Their latest development of it, the ACPR-1000 will get rid of the final vestiges of the French design and enable it to be marketed abroad (since the French still own the design rights of the 900MWe).
So it's win-win really, we get our NPPs, they get their NPPs, and they get ideas they can use for their next generation of NPP.

But they charge us the earth for the 'privilege' :)

[Oberon]

But they charge us the earth for the 'privilege' :)

Well, the energy companies have got to give some excuse to keep jacking the bills up. :O:

[Jimbuna]

Well, the energy companies have got to give some excuse to keep jacking the bills up. :O:

I was considering putting up a twelve bank of solar panels but the initial outlay looks quite prohibitive in the short to medium term.

[Aktungbby]

I was considering putting up a twelve bank of solar panels but the initial outlay looks quite prohibitive in the short to medium term.

Partial assist solar... or off grid totally?

[Platapus]

Many years ago, it used to be that the phrase "made in Japan" often gave the customer the impression of a product that was cheaply made and not of very good quality.

Now, perhaps the phrase "made in the USA" has taken its place.

Just from my own perspective, if I am considering a product and I see "made in the USA" I find myself taking special efforts to examine the product for defects either in manufacturing or design before considering to buy it..... especially when considering the price.

Based on the past experiences of my family, it will be a long time before we can risk our money in an "American" car. Perhaps in a few years, if things improve under Fiat, we might consider it.

I would like to purchase products made in my own country. But the price/quality ratio is just not there. As a capitalist, I am not going to spend more money and get less, just because of nationalism. :nope:

The sad thing is that we only have ourselves to blame.

[BrucePartington]

Car repair being my field, and having driven and repaired vehicles on/from both sides of the pond, it is my view that quality and reliability are going down the drain on both sides.

People tend to compare things they know.
Vehicles built in the 70's and 80's were generally far more reliable and durable than current models, regardless of car maker.
Even Mercedes, traditionally regarded as a model of reliability and durability, is now having problems that simply could not exist before the year 2000.

IMHO, the two main contributing factors are environmental demands and greed, oh! excuse me, budget limitations.
One of the main sources of engine grief is the EGR valve, which tends to get clogged up rather quickly, and then proceeds to do the same to the engine innards. Not to mention the dreaded dual-mass engine flywheel (for manual transmissions, of course), which more than doubled the cost of a clutch kit replacement.
Camshafts used to be one solid piece you'd hardly worry about. Today, the shaft is hollow, and the cams are pressed onto it. A cam rotating out of position was simply unheard of. And this one can instantly totally destroy an engine.
If you are faced with a major engine or gearbox repair, it is now cheaper - and in some cases imposed by the car maker, as individual parts are simply not supplied - to exchange it for a complete rebuilt unit.

Remember the airline company that took one olive from every single meal served aboard? Well it seems the idea has caught on.