View Full Version : Romania and Bulgaria controls lifted
Jimbuna
01-01-14, 06:48 AM
With the qualification rules to benefit entitlement having recently been tightened up I'm not so sure we will witness a mass migration into the UK.
My main concern is the effect it will have on the unemployment market, especially for those in lower paid work.
Only time will tell.
Citizens of Romania and Bulgaria can work without restrictions across the European Union from Wednesday.
Transitional controls were imposed by some member states on nationals of the two countries - the poorest in the bloc - when they joined the EU in 2007.
Their rights to work and claim benefits were limited for their first seven years of EU membership.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25565302
POSITION OVERRUN STOP THOUSANDS OF THEM STOP DAILY EXPRESS WAS RIGHT STOP ONLY THE GHOST OF DIANA CAN SAVE US NOW STOP END
Jimbuna
01-01-14, 06:54 AM
LOL...this will surely cement the NMW in areas such as Norfolk/East Anglia.
LOL...this will surely cement the NMW in areas such as Norfolk/East Anglia.
Cement? The area is virtually constructed from it! :haha: Still, I've seen a good cross section of native work ethic vs Eastern European work ethic and to be quite honest if what I've seen is anything to go by, we've no-one to blame but ourselves if the unemployment market dries up for the natives.
After all, how many British do you see willing to get up at 3am in the frost and cold to pick Brussel Sprouts? :hmmm:
Jimbuna
01-01-14, 07:03 AM
Cement? The area is virtually constructed from it! :haha: Still, I've seen a good cross section of native work ethic vs Eastern European work ethic and to be quite honest if what I've seen is anything to go by, we've no-one to blame but ourselves if the unemployment market dries up for the natives.
After all, how many British do you see willing to get up at 3am in the frost and cold to pick Brussel Sprouts? :hmmm:
That is very true but you and I both know that is not how a sizeable majority of the voters will see it come the next election.
IMHO unemployment will match austerity in the forthcoming political debates.
The people have the scapegoat they needed to cry foul and blame others for a predicament many of them are actually partly the causation factor to.
That is very true but you and I both know that is not how a sizeable majority of the voters will see it come the next election.
IMHO unemployment will match austerity in the forthcoming political debates.
The people have the scapegoat they needed to cry foul and blame others for a predicament many of them are actually partly the causation factor to.
That is exactly what worries me, the scapegoating of an entire subsection of society for political reasons. At the risk of Godwinning the thread so early in the day, it smacks of the vilification of the Jews in Europe in the 1930s, and we all know what that lead to. Whilst I would be surprised to see British concentration camps in my lifetime (even though we invented them) I do have my concerns on it increasing the rate of hate crimes against Eastern Europeans and those who 'look a bit foreign', in a manner similar to the small wave of violence against mosques that occurred after the murder of Lee Rigby, and that such hatred will be gleefully stoked by the media, desperate for rolling news and headlines, and by the politicians for cheap vote scoring. :nope:
Romania looks like they bought this on themselves judging from the book I'm reading. If Romania stayed out of the war they could have well been better off. Here is the few lines from "Death on the Don"...
Romania possessed one of the largest oil production and refinery complexes in the world.
Goes on about US investment and how all the oil sites...
pumped more than 600,000 metric tonnes of oil out of the ground every month. This incredible bounty was more than Germany, Italy, Hungary,Slovakia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Finland, Spain and Japan produced combined,
If Romania stayed out of the war
Bordered by Nazi Germany on one side and the Soviet Union on the other, they had about as much chance of staying out of the war as Hitler had of being cast as Shylock in the Third Reichs annual production of Merchant of Venice.
Bordered by Nazi Germany on one side and the Soviet Union on the other, they had about as much chance of staying out of the war as Hitler had of being cast as Shylock in the Third Reichs annual production of Merchant of Venice.
The threat of blowing all sky high would have been enough to solve that problem. Any how back to present day...
All this comes about because we are a member of a corrupt organisation known as the EU, they tell us to jump and we jump.
Uk is finished as long as we let big corporations and banks piss on us from on high.
Open the debate up..
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/romania-denies-uk-faces-migrant-39-invasion-39-231724118.html#FB1TM6e
Migrant Numbers 'Should Be Decided By People'
Britain should hold a referendum to decide how many EU migrants should be allowed to come to the UK, a leading MP has told Sky News.
The call was made by Keith Vaz, chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee
There is one fact, those who have been let in ship millions back home which dose not help the our economy much.
I think that is a bit of a red herring if I'm honest, hardly any of those I know (and I have met many Eastern Europeans) directly send the money home, they prefer to save it up in order to pay for university tuition fees back home which, when scaled vis a vis average wage, are about as expensive as those in our country. If you were to look at the top recipient countries for remittances you might be in for a bit of a surprise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittance#Top_recipient_countries
More money is sent home to France and Germany than it is to Poland or the Czech Republic.
http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/submitViewTableAction.do?dvsc=9
Furthermore remittance payments, when they do occur, are a stable financial diet for the economy in uncertain economic times. The UK benefits from remittance payments from places like Dubai and the UAE, but the most money that goes out from the UK goes to India rather than the East of Europe. :03:
Open the debate up..
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/romania-denies-uk-faces-migrant-39-invasion-39-231724118.html#FB1TM6e
More political vote scaremongering. :nope:
A couple of Poles I know are going home as they had it...
Your country is in trouble and most of you will not do nothing about it.
I agree with his comment, nice guy...well both of them are.
A couple of Poles I know are going home as they had it...
I agree with his comment, nice guy...well both of them are.
I think the biggest problem is going to be housing, and that has little to do with immigration (although it is effected by it to be fair) and more to do with people wanting house prices to go through the roof so they can sell off their homes as a fund for retirement purposes...which in itself is understandable, however it's creating a bubble which will eventually burst in a very nasty fashion.
Jimbuna
01-01-14, 08:36 AM
I think the biggest problem is going to be housing, and that has little to do with immigration (although it is effected by it to be fair) and more to do with people wanting house prices to go through the roof so they can sell off their homes as a fund for retirement purposes...which in itself is understandable, however it's creating a bubble which will eventually burst in a very nasty fashion.
When initially considering retirement seriously for the first time about a year ago, the wife and I (well me mainly if I'm being honest) considered downsizing our home (no mortgage since four years ago) but my conscience prevented me on the grounds that this course of action would be of no benefit in financial terms to the kids inheritance.
Mind you, the way the economy is looking that decision may yet be subject to change...the boy has carved out his future career and the daughter we will wait and see considering she is in her last year of university.
I think the biggest problem is going to be housing, and that has little to do with immigration (although it is effected by it to be fair) and more to do with people wanting house prices to go through the roof so they can sell off their homes as a fund for retirement purposes...which in itself is understandable, however it's creating a bubble which will eventually burst in a very nasty fashion.
The Mail/Express have been hiking up this as great news which left me thinking are they fools? I have now dismissed this in favour of Corporate controlled agenda and without question that gangster George Osbourne's right to buy a home scheme is nothing more than a ponzi scam.
All to easy too fool for the corporate agenda blame it all on the immigrants.
"EU free movement" on-road test:
I have recently dealt with a law case which exemplifies the legal situation with regard to the topic in question.
My client: a 50 years old woman from Greece (EU country), who had lived a good civic life working as a bank assistance (“the irony”) for more than 20 years. She lost her job because of the financial break down in Greece, had to live from unemployment money which is paid for 12 months only and then she was depending on welfare money.
As she saw no other option for her life, she then at her age decided to move to Germany to earn a living (imo “a brave, inspiring woman”).
As an EU citizen she is inherited to a right of free movement within the EU countries to live and work there. But of course, this right has its limits. No country can afford an uncontrolled immigration of people into its social security systems.
The limits:
a) for the first 3 months of your stay in a different EU country, you can’t claim welfare money,
b) after that you either have a job which pays you a living, then part of your income is paid into the unemployment insurance, if your then lose your job, you receive unemployment money to which you have contributed to before by paying money into the insurance while you had a job, or
c) you still have no job, or have not worked long enough to claim unemployment money or you only have a “minijob” which means that you can only in parts meet your living expenses and you depend on supplemental social security money. If that is the case, if you would have to claim welfare money, your stay in a EU country other than your own, is limited to a maximum 6 months period. Then they will send you back home.
My client had worked for a period of 12 months in Germany on low-wage jobs as French maid and dish washer, which did not put her into the position to be able to claim unemployment money, then lost one of her “minijobs” which meant that she would depend on additional welfare money.
The social security office refused to make any payments as long as she does not submit translations of some Greek documents. I pointed out to them that as an EU citizen she can claim interpreter and translation costs to be paid by the office if she can not afford the costs, and made the proposal that social aid could be paid as a loan until the translations of the documents are submitted and her claim for social money can be decided.
As the office still refused any payments, I sued it to the Social Court and at court we made a settlement which involved temporary payment of welfare money as a loan until the translations are available, which have to be paid by the office, and in addition: my client gets legal aid to cover the legal costs which means that I got paid by the state.
I am under the impression that the agents at the office did not know yet how to handle such cases, and that the EU law involved is all new to them. It could have been cheaper, if the agent would have asked the in-house legal advisors of the office on how to handle the claim, so that the costly court case would have been avoided.
After the settlement at the Social Court, the immigration office showed up and wrote to my client that they are planning to expel her. But as my client defines as “employed” even with her part time “minijob” and even though she is depending on additional welfare money, they can’t do that, which they acknowledged after we sent them salary statements.
Within the 6 months period (c), she will start an apprenticeship which was offered her by her present employer under the condition that she improves her German which she does by taking German language courses for immigrants, which means that she can stay in Germany, if all works out as planned.
Imo it is kind of obvious that there will be further restrictions in future either by the Courts or the law-makers as to what defines as "employee" under EU law, which is what gives you the right to free movement within the EU, e.g. "As "employee" you define under EU law, if you have a minimum income of ,let's say, 16.800 € p.a. for you own living".
Well, I've worked alongside 4 Bulgarians and single Romanian over the past three years. And lots of Poles.
Capable of working their butts off when their good, absolutely useless when their not.
Mike.
Skybird
01-04-14, 11:04 AM
The EU's Central Committee and German Social Courts disagree and collide over how to interpret and implement legislation regulating social wellfare payed to foreigners.
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/recht-steuern/sozialleistungen-europa-entscheidet-ueber-hartz-iv-fuer-eu-auslaender-12735010.html
One wonders if even the Central Committee's commissioners really know their stuff correctly.
On the migration from Bulgaria and Romania, German politicians keep telling the public that most of these people that are coming are highly educated specialists and academics. However, until today for this claim no ministry has presented any numbers that could be verified.
The impression in public, could not disagree more from this opportunistic claim. In certain cities in the Ruhrgebiet, where these foreigners concentrate mostly, communities ache under the fincial burden stemming from needing to pay social wellfare of various kinds. Conflicts with local population are constantly climbing. There are some areas that already now look worse than most of what I have ever seen in the GDR in social misery and ruined, rubble-stuck buildings. The amount of beggars and organised beggars from Romania have mutliplied by several factors over the past 2 or 3 years, it is even noticable in my own hometown where there is no huge Romanian community like in some other places. If there are any highly trained academic specialists amongst them, then their number is such that they practically disappear in the overall rush.
Such specialists, btw, would be needed and are being sought for! - in Bulgaria and Romania themselves. Such people could find work in their home countries, so one wonders why they would come to Germany. Also, one has to ask about the morality of trying to bring such people from there to here, because obviously they are being needed in their home countries, to rebuild them, and moving them from there to here is at the cost of those foreign countries. But as I said, there are only claims, not evidence in numbers, that really the lion share of refugees from Romania and Bulgaria are highly trained academics and specialists. I tend to rightout deny that that claim can be true. Where ever they work, if they exist - they are not noticable for the public. They are invisible. Far more visible are the huge problems the army of poor and beggars mean for the communities where they flock down.
Beside political correctness, there probably is another background why politicians claim that the migration of social low class foreigners is so welcome (which it is not, a very huge majority of German population I would dare to say is anything but enthusiastic over this issue). The health service system is desperately short on personnel that works in branches where they aid the elderly and in asylums. The more and more old people and the fewer and fewer young people - the generation clash, as I call it - mean exploding financial costs for the young, while many elderly care nurses are missing, there is a huge gap between demand and offer. These underqualified if not uneduacted social low class foreigners probably get welcomed by politicians to have them in some time available as low wage workers in these sectors, as nurses for example. While we already have for example engineers from Poland and doctors from the Czech Republic, you need to search for long time to find comparing specialists with Romanian and Bulgarian names. The perception is that for the most they are begging, or do low wage work at the lowest end of the employment market's food chain, which means they receive additional aid by the state and so cost more than they pay back in taxes. The conclusion from this must be what already is clear for other social low class migrant groups that flock to Germany from some parts of the Middle East: in the end, this fills Germany'S need for cheap slave workers , sometimes more and sometimes less, which nevertheless costs more than it pays off, because the migration into the social wellfare system is immense (what every< politician of course aggressively denies). And that I say NOT because the CSU baits with this argument currently.
It's like always, some migration groups from some countries and cultures benefit better, integrate better and match Germany's needs better than others. Some are enriching Germany indeed, others are - as a whole group - a plague. The to be expected wave of Romanians coming now, is no good news.
But politicians and their paper money. By switching on the printer they believe they can keep their show running forever. And it is not them who need to live in closest vicinity to the hot zones where local population and poor foreigners live skin to skin.
Well, people let it happen, and do not object to politicians and do not chase them to hell, but instead legitimize them again and again and obey their selfish rule-making. The world they assisted to form by that, will get exactly what it deserves. My sympathy or compassion thus tends towards nill.
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