Uncomfortable Concept in Texas - Search Warrants

[Feuer Frei!]

Here's a key quote:

The majority's decision, he writes, means that 'search warrants may now be based on predictions of the commission of future crimes

SOURCE (http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2013/12/parker_county_meth_search_warr.php)

[Platapus]

Talk about a camel's nose on a slippery slope. :nope:

[Onkel Neal]

Talk about a camel's nose on a slippery slope. :nope:


:har:

[Cybermat47]

Good to see that they're employing Gypsys. How else can they know the future well enough to be able to get warrants?

[GoldenRivet]

If the article was properly and thoroughly read, you will find that it pertains to evidence as it is received by a third party source aka a "tip".

The exclusionary rule still applies to evidence seized improperly or without a warrant

HOWEVER... Texas judges... interpreting federal precedent determined that if i go tell the police that I was at billy bobs house, and he had detailed maps of a local federal building and what appeared to be several pipe bombs on the kitchen table this whole exclusionary rule goes out the window as it is a fair assumption that there is an intent to commit a crime based in me going to the police and bringing this to their attention.

Furthermore i will point out: the cops probably did drop the ball on this one and stepped into some crap, but looking for a way to cover it's arse end, the state found a federal loop hole and took advantage of it.

Finally, the state sticks to its claim that the arrests were not made because jim bob said someone was "fixin to break the law"... because "fixin to break the law" isnt against the law, breaking the law is against the law... i could think about robbing banks and pimpin' hoes all day long but until i actually do it i havent committed a crime, no the state says that their arrests were made due to the tip provided that these dope heads had meth cooking equipment and ingredients in quantities that were not only very likely illegal to possess, but they had completed product AND the tipster observed these knuckleheads in the first stages of cooking the meth. Which, i think for most of us, the assumption is safe that those things ARE against the law

sounds a little shady how they busted in... because how are we to know this guy isnt an amateur bill nye and was just working on a really cool 5th grade volcano experiment? but the kicker is the tipster telling the police about possession of the physical "usable quantity" of meth product and meth paraphernalia.

[Cybermat47]

If the article was properly and thoroughly read, you will find that it pertains to evidence as it is received by a third party source aka a "tip".


Ah... so Gypsys will be tipping them off :D

[gi_dan2987]

I think it's baloney how the gov't tries to constantly keep us at odds with each other. We are divided on everything from race, creed, origin, gender, politics, religion, and the list goes on.

Then there's the disparity between the Cannabis users and the booze hounds. The Cannabis users usually just end up minding their own business while getting lectured on health and responsibility from the guy who whacks down a jug of crown every night and burns 2 packs of Marlboros a day. I've never seen bigger hippocrates than drinkers and tobacco users. At the end of the day, it's your choice to do what you wish anyhow, and that shouldn't be of anybody's concern but the person doing it.

Another way they keep us at odds, is by getting us to taddle and nark on each other like little GD playground monitors (the kids that go on to be cops usually).

[Jimbuna]

Sounds a little like the reasonable suspicion laws we have in the UK but no tipoff is required so our boys usually get accused of racial profiling.

[GoldenRivet]

I don't see how this is the government keeping us at odds

Meth is a huge problem in a lot of places and it's criminal activity that should be reported wherever and whenever possible.

Any time you witness a crime or think one is being committed it should be reported to the police. Period.

It's not like it's their constitutional right to manufacture illegal drugs all day

[gi_dan2987]

No it's not, but it's also not the government's right to dictate what we do with ourselves in the privacy of our own homes.

And yes, they ARE keeping us at odds with each other. Take one look around you. This country needs to band together in order to get anything done. Does it seem to you that people are banding together, or bickering over all the aforementioned micro issues? The writing's on the wall.

[Onkel Neal]

If the article was properly and thoroughly read, you will find that it pertains to evidence as it is received by a third party source aka a "tip".

The exclusionary rule still applies to evidence seized improperly or without a warrant

HOWEVER... Texas judges... interpreting federal precedent determined that if i go tell the police that I was at billy bobs house, and he had detailed maps of a local federal building and what appeared to be several pipe bombs on the kitchen table this whole exclusionary rule goes out the window as it is a fair assumption that there is an intent to commit a crime based in me going to the police and bringing this to their attention.

Furthermore i will point out: the cops probably did drop the ball on this one and stepped into some crap, but looking for a way to cover it's arse end, the state found a federal loop hole and took advantage of it.

Finally, the state sticks to its claim that the arrests were not made because jim bob said someone was "fixin to break the law"... because "fixin to break the law" isnt against the law, breaking the law is against the law... i could think about robbing banks and pimpin' hoes all day long but until i actually do it i havent committed a crime, no the state says that their arrests were made due to the tip provided that these dope heads had meth cooking equipment and ingredients in quantities that were not only very likely illegal to possess, but they had completed product AND the tipster observed these knuckleheads in the first stages of cooking the meth. Which, i think for most of us, the assumption is safe that those things ARE against the law

sounds a little shady how they busted in... because how are we to know this guy isnt an amateur bill nye and was just working on a really cool 5th grade volcano experiment? but the kicker is the tipster telling the police about possession of the physical "usable quantity" of meth product and meth paraphernalia.


Well explained, thanks.While I understand people who point out the slippery slope aspect of this, I appreciate that another drug dealer has been taken off the street. All good.

[gi_dan2987]

Yes drugs are terrible. You can overdose on them, they cause chemical changes to your body and physical harm. Not to mention they are made from substances that are not in their purest, most natural form. They cause things like weight gain, weight loss, withdrawals, severe and uncontrollable intoxication, vomiting, and of course family issues and unexpected pregnancy.

One of the most common and deadly drugs in use today is none other than alcohol, 2nd only to heroin, coke, and nicotine.

I agree 100% Drugs are the destroyer of society and health. Herbs, spices, minerals, and other natural organics are what we are to use for medicines and remedies for ailments.

[Sailor Steve]

Well explained, thanks.While I understand people who point out the slippery slope aspect of this, I appreciate that another drug dealer has been taken off the street. All good.
Possibly, but they still went in without a warrant, and obtained one after the fact.

On the other hand, this:
the trial court cited federal "independent source doctrine," which allows illegally seized evidence a third party told them about beforehand
Is interesting and frightening at the same time.

[Aktungbby]

If the article was properly and thoroughly read, you will find that it pertains to evidence as it is received by a third party source aka a "tip".

The exclusionary rule still applies to evidence seized improperly or without a warrant

HOWEVER... Texas judges... interpreting federal precedent determined that if i go tell the police that I was at billy bobs house, and he had detailed maps of a local federal building and what appeared to be several pipe bombs on the kitchen table this whole exclusionary rule goes out the window as it is a fair assumption that there is an intent to commit a crime based in me going to the police and bringing this to their attention.

Furthermore i will point out: the cops probably did drop the ball on this one and stepped into some crap, but looking for a way to cover it's arse end, the state found a federal loop hole and took advantage of it.

Finally, the state sticks to its claim that the arrests were not made because jim bob said someone was "fixin to break the law"... because "fixin to break the law" isnt against the law, breaking the law is against the law... i could think about robbing banks and pimpin' hoes all day long but until i actually do it i havent committed a crime, no the state says that their arrests were made due to the tip provided that these dope heads had meth cooking equipment and ingredients in quantities that were not only very likely illegal to possess, but they had completed product AND the tipster observed these knuckleheads in the first stages of cooking the meth. Which, i think for most of us, the assumption is safe that those things ARE against the law

sounds a little shady how they busted in... because how are we to know this guy isnt an amateur bill nye and was just working on a really cool 5th grade volcano experiment? but the kicker is the tipster telling the police about possession of the physical "usable quantity" of meth product and meth paraphernalia.

Exactly, moreover the use of the heat source and the toxic situation, a major EPA headache, more than qualifies as conspiracy at that point and under the exigent circumstance of an explosion or toxic fire, the matter may be attended to prior to obtaining the warrant if the witness is reliable. Any 'fruits of a poisonous tree' issues can be dealt with by the court and judge after the fact at the hearing or indictment. In the piling on of charges at the prosecutors disposal and discretion, will include conspiracy and public endangerment.

[Madox58]

Informants.
:har:
Talk about a real joke!

Most had been caught doing illegal stuff. In self-preservation and to avoid jail time?
Started working for LEO. Doing SPONSORED illegal stuff!
Show me ONE law that says this is legal.
If I send a friend out to buy drugs and get caught?
I'm subject to arrest.
When do we arrest LEO's for doing the same?

[Armistead]

Any power given to the govt. will be abused by some, that's why it should be limited as much as possible...

[Platapus]

Any power given to the govt. will be abused by some, that's why it should be limited as much as possible...

One of my favourite political quotes from LBJ comes to mind.

"You do not only evaluate legislation in the light of the good it can do if properly administered

But also in the light of the harms it can do if improperly administered"

Considering how often we hear about police serving a search warrant on the wrong address and ending up shooting people or dogs, I want as much oversight as possible over the police.

It is the police that are in the position to infringe on our civil rights the most. That means that not only should they be held to a high standard, but there has to be significant oversight over their actions.