NSA 'debates' amnesty for Snowden

[Jimbuna]

I'm a little surprised...is it possible they are in fear of what they know he has yet to leak? :hmmm:

A top NSA official has raised the possibility of an amnesty for fugitive intelligence contractor Edward Snowden if he agrees to stop leaking documents.

The man in charge of assessing the leaks' damage, Richard Ledgett, said he could be open to an amnesty deal.

Disclosures by the former intelligence worker have revealed the extent of the NSA's spying activity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25399345

[Gerald]

You have a point in what you say, it is feared that he will leak more, eventually he will probably want to go home to the U.S.

[soopaman2]

Not a big fan of the man, amnesty?

Too late, he already gave the Russians everything.

Sorry, let him stay there.
I do not even want him, as long as he can never come back, if he does we hang him. Hopefully botch it like the Saddam hanging.

I find people who join our military, then betray the public trust despicable.

No matter what he supposedly exposed that is the definition of a traitor, working against our troops.

I am so happy China, and Russia coveted him, he is surely not telling them anything right? You nieve sympathetics?

I am sure he is there for free, with no info, and I am sure they did not look at his laptops, nope. America is evil, king evil, the great satan, we made the euro fail, and we killed the prophet muhammed.! No other country would do that!

[Jimbuna]

Ah, righteo then.

[Ducimus]

Personally, I'd love to see the entire NSA apparatus as it currently exists in its overbearing and unconstitutional form, dismantled; utterly, and entirely.

[Wolferz]

Personally, I'd love to see the entire NSA apparatus as it currently exists in its overbearing and unconstitutional form, dismantled; utterly, and entirely.


+1:up:

[TarJak]

Not a big fan of the man, amnesty?

Too late, he already gave the Russians everything.

Sorry, let him stay there.
I do not even want him, as long as he can never come back, if he does we hang him. Hopefully botch it like the Saddam hanging.

I find people who join our military, then betray the public trust despicable.

No matter what he supposedly exposed that is the definition of a traitor, working against our troops.

I am so happy China, and Russia coveted him, he is surely not telling them anything right? You nieve sympathetics?

I am sure he is there for free, with no info, and I am sure they did not look at his laptops, nope. America is evil, king evil, the great satan, we made the euro fail, and we killed the prophet muhammed.! No other country would do that!

Been at the Hamm's again?

Snowden was never part of the military. He was employed by a contractor to which analysis had been outsourced. If you are going to rant do so factually.

[mapuc]

You have a point in what you say, it is feared that he will leak more, eventually he will probably want to go home to the U.S.

Thanks to Snowden, Sweden are facing an upcoming diplomatic crisis with Russia and a domestic crisis

What it looks like is that the FRA-law could have been as a result of influence of external political powers( According to the Swedish news)


Markus

[Gerald]

Thanks to Snowden, Sweden are facing an upcoming diplomatic crisis with Russia and a domestic crisis

What it looks like is that the FRA-law could have been as a result of influence of external political powers( According to the Swedish news)


Markus Not that I have any direct insight into the operations of the FRA, so get the information, not surprisingly, with a collaboration between US-SWE,given Sweden's position on the map, and co-existing signal reconnaissance goes far back in time, during WWII was is a constant activity within the organization which was then called B-Agency in Sweden.

[Jimbuna]

Thanks to Snowden, Sweden are facing an upcoming diplomatic crisis with Russia and a domestic crisis

What it looks like is that the FRA-law could have been as a result of influence of external political powers( According to the Swedish news)


Markus

Sweden?

Really?

[Skybird]

Snowden said some months ago he joined the NSA for the mere purpose of getting those infos, I recall from reading several articles at that time. That makes him not a traitor, but an infiltrator.

The benefit of having revealed the huge amount of illegal actions and criminal acts as well as having started a debate about the green and red lights of total surveillance societies, outweighs by far any argument about the legality of his action.

German news this evening has headlines that an American judge has said the total NSA telephone surveillance "most likely" is a massive violation of American laws, and that legal challenges to the NSA have very good chances of success.

What is to be learned here: Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Never trust states, governments, government services. Democratic ideas about controlling these monsters, is an illusion. Especially in the US, intel and military are secret societies in themselves, are states within the state without any legitimation by the electorate (which Americans usually are so keen to point at).

Between the need for self defense by military and intel services, and the need for transparency and counter-controlling the power of such institutions, I see a gap or contradiction that becomes the wider and more unbridgable the more technology advances. That maybe points at a fundamental dilemma we are drowning in sooner or later, because the less we can "grade" the balance between needed secrecy and transparency, the more we only have the absolute choice between total transparency and defenselessness, or total control by the state and maximum security. The slider between these two poles seem to disappear, getting replaced with a simple two-way flipping switch.

And that is extremely dangerous and can lead to wars, as European history has shown many times.

That the whole system is corrupted beyond repair by business lobbyism and cheating politicians, does not make it any better, of course.

With each year passing by, I think more intensely that breakdown and collapse not only is unavoidable, but is highly desirable - to flush all the dirt and decadence away and make room for building new - maybe. It'S a small chance only. Chance that the dirtiness of the other global players will ruin us in our rubble, is greater. So maybe even that is no way out, but will just relaunch the same old story that has been told since eons now, again and again, and again. In perceiving the reality around me, I asm realistic. But in assessing the ability of man to change the fundamental moral and intellectual premises of his acting , I have become very pessimistic. History illustrates the endless repetition of the same mistakes over and over again, all too often. And the dualistic view of life, the two-sided nature of the coin that human life is, maybe even do not allow lasting and final, correct solutions to the existential dilemmas that crush us time and again. Sisyphos on my mind.

[mapuc]

Sweden?

Really?

Here's a story you may not know

in the early night time on 29th of Mars, a group of 6 Russian fighter planes conduct a series of bomb-training just outside the Swedish border. The Swedes reacted slowly and when their JAS 39 arrived the Russian plane was heading home

it turned out that they trained attack on the FRA Institution

FRA means Defense Radio Institute. in other words SIGINT.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Here's a story you may not know

in the early night time on 29th of Mars, a group of 6 Russian fighter planes conduct a series of bomb-training just outside the Swedish border. The Swedes reacted slowly and when their JAS 39 arrived the Russian plane was heading home

it turned out that they trained attack on the FRA Institution

FRA means Defense Radio Institute. in other words SIGINT.

Markus

Your quite correct, I wasn't aware....but when was the last time Sweden was on a war footing/alert? :)

[Gerald]

Your quite correct, I wasn't aware....but when was the last time Sweden was on a war footing/alert? :) 1981

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_S-363

[Jimbuna]

Crumbs on the table in the overall context of historical warfare me thinks.

[Stealhead]

Crumbs on the table in the overall context of historical warfare me thinks.


None shall take down Volvo!!!

[Aktungbby]

Been at the Hamm's again?
Thanks for the plug Tarjak! As I stated in an earlier post when the Snowden story first broke and after he was given an award by four retired members of other intelligence agencies... 'this worm is beginning to turn'. :shifty:

[d@rk51d3]

The only leaking I was thinking about, was his brains, onto the wallpaper.

[Jimbuna]

None shall take down Volvo!!!

LOL :)

[TarJak]

Perhaps their surveillance picked up early notice of this judgement: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/16/justice/nsa-surveillance-court-ruling/
:hmmm:

[mapuc]

Found a English article about this Russian exercise

http://www.thelocal.se/20130422/47474

Markus

[Gerald]

Karin Enstrom as defense minister is a minor disaster and government way of managing defense capability, for several years, and that the Swedish security policy leaves many questions,:down:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

...the Swedish security policy...Security policy? What security policy? :hmmm: No offence but you can't be neutral without means to enforce that neutrality. Policy which includes constantly cutting defence capability isn't "security policy".

[Gerald]

Security policy? What security policy? :hmmm: No offence but you can't be neutral without means to enforce that neutrality. Policy which includes constantly cutting defence capability isn't "security policy".I mean that even a neutral country must have a real and genuine way attitudes towards the outside world in security policy issues and act in a proper manner,which is not working at 100 percent.

[Gerald]

It is possible to name several examples where it has failed, which causes unclear signal to the world that the country's ability to deal with situations as above.

[MH]

It is possible to name several examples where it has failed, which causes unclear signal to the world that the country's ability to deal with situations as above.

Sweeden dos not deal with situations threafore it is parveh.
The policy works very well :haha:.

[Gerald]

Sweeden dos not deal with situations threafore it is parveh.
The policy works very well :haha:. LOL :)

[Mr Quatro]

Snowden said some months ago he joined the NSA for the mere purpose of getting those infos, I recall from reading several articles at that time. That makes him not a traitor, but an infiltrator.


I agree with this part, but the rest of what you said is judging the system. The system is designed to produce results and produce results is what it does best.

Who does it hurt? The guilty are guilty of something and in todays let them go society you have to catch them first and then you have to make it stick.

The NSA does not have time to waste on the innocent.

As for as amnesty is concerned it comes from the same people that produce 'talking points' just to see what the other side is up to.

[Jimbuna]

Not much of a future in my estimation.