Skybird
12-09-13, 11:37 AM
As I said in the Assetto Corsa thread, I considered to buy the G27 by Logitech, and what should I say: I bought the G27 this morning. It was too tempting to finally do the jump towards clutch pedal, manual shifter, and 900° rotation. I only considered it due to Assetto Corsa, a fantastic sim, imo. The only other driving sim I use, is OMSI, but that is a completely different breed of driving, obviously. Nevertheless, in its field it is a hardcore simulator – and regarding physics, a superb one. I use the new controller in these two sims exclusively.
At the time of writing this, I have collected a bit more than three hours of pure driving with the G27. The 430 I have had for I think over two years. Before that, I used an old MS Sidewinder FFB Wheel. :D
Of course I compare the G27 to the Thrustmaster Ferrari 430, my old wheel. That is imo the superior performer in the price segment around 140 Euros, whereas the price for the G27 varies between 250 and 300 Euro over here. And beside obvious feature superiority by the Logitech G27 regarding third pedal, 900° rotation and manual shifter, the 430 nevertheless not only holds its ground, but scores over the Logitech wheel in several categories.
Why is that?
The Logitech wheel feels nice to grab and hold, with that leather in your hands. The manual shifter also feels surprisingly nice, better than I expected. The pedals have varying pressure, with the brake being the strongest and the gas the weakest too press. There is a carpet clamp in the pedals’ plate that works very well. There are six buttons on the wheel’s surface. These imo are a big disappointment, they are tiny, spaced too close together, they feel very weak and extremely cheap, and really are not any pleasure to press at all. Bad buttons, plain and simple. There are 8 more buttons on the shifter’s panel, plus a cursor arrangement. These have a different feeling and more moving space, no hard click spot, but a softer, longer movement. But nothing special, you have seen buttons like these on many ordinary gamepads of lower prices. The paddles are of metal and have an okay feeling. The wheel feels very nice to hold, the leather is a good idea indeed.
The Thrustmaster wheel has 240° rotation only, and two pedals only, and no manual shifter. Like the G27, it is 28 cm in diameter, both wheels weigh almost exactly 3 kg. The wheel has 6 buttons on the face of the wheel, and a five-way switch-and-push button, and finally a four-way button that hides in the big red engine-start button, next there are two hidden button s at the side of the wheel’s axis (before the paddles), and two more programmable buttons on the motor box. That gives the 430 more buttons than the G27, and all of them located on the wheel. Especially the wheel’s face buttons have a superior feeling, they have nice movement space and a soft but well defined contact point, the 5-way rotation button also feels very “expensive”, it has no free space but a robust feel to it both when turning and pushing. The paddles, made of metal, are thicker and better polished at the edges, they are far more robust and give a much better feeling than the G27’s. The round wheel itself is coated with rubber, which actually feels quite well: not as nice as the leather of course, but better than plastic. The center, like the G27, has a metal furnish. The gas and braking pedals have a very comparable pressure resistance when comparing them to the G27, with the braking pedal again being tougher. The G27’S pedals nevertheless are slightly better because the plate really stays in position when kicking the irons hard, and by superficial visual inspection of the outside I could imagine that their mechanism is of a better construction.
All in all: the G27 wins in the design of the pedals, but the 430 imo is a whole class better in the wheel’s outside manufacturing quality and button arrangement. The leather alone of the Logitech cannot save that, because the Ferrari wheel’s grip does feel inferior compared to that, but taken for itself feels not bad at all. By looks and ergonomy, I would prefer the 430 over the G27 any day.
The shifter of the G27 cannot be compared, the 430 has no pendant. It is feature dominance by Logitech here, so to speak.
The effects of FFB now. Well, the 430 actually has quite strong FFB effects. But the G27 seems to have smoother transitions between effects, while offering the same possible strength in FFB rumble, if needed. The 430 has one motor which has no clicking sounds like the G27 occasionally has, but while not being a loud wheel, it nevertheless is a bit louder than the G27. The centering force, if you switch it on additionally to FFB effects, can be turned to equal levels in the G27 as with the 430, but the 430 again is not as smooth, but more “rude”, also, you often have to choose between either having FFB effects controlled by the sim you run, or the motor only providing a centering “spring”. So while the 430 features comparable maximum strengths in effects like the G27, the G27 wins due to the greater smoothness and variety by which it implements effects.
How do I drive with the new wheel? Well, the different turning of the wheel makes it a whole new ball game for me, also the manual clutch. I’m not used to it, I have of course learned it long time ago, but since I do not own a car I am not used to it, and so it takes me longer than drivers with routine to change gears. I currently crawl around the tracks and need 40 seconds longer at Imola for one lap. :D It feels more realistically, yes, but the idea to race competitively with this new setup, I can bury for the next months to come. I am too used to the 240° rotation and paddle-gear switching. Trying to drift turned from bad to worse. So I have to say: it is more fun to drive, and more frustration to race. Or should I ask: what racing? Well, I admit that I never have been a good driver anyway.
Was it worth those 250 bucks for me? I admit I am a bit undecided, currently, the G27 offers some feature superiority, especially the 900° rotation, the manual shifter and clutch pedal, but the 430 is a better manufacturing quality, it has a heavier, better finished feeling, and let’s face it: it looks damn sexy, like a real Ferrari wheel (which it indeed mimics, due to licensing). That little Manettino switch (I think that is how it is called) on the right side and the idea to hide the cursor keys in the engine igniter, are two more bright ideas, well implemented. The G27 however, while being inferior in paddles and buttons and almost feeling cheap there, has some smoother FFB and the attractiveness of manual shifting and greater rotation. No, I do not regret the buy, but I have one eye crying for having to give up the 430, and it is no all-out love with the Logitech wheel, no triumphant new competitor. I strongly assume that over time it will convince me indeed, but there is work to be done to achieve that affection. For its price, the Ferrari 430 really is a damn good piece of kit. And I cannot help to think that the Logitech, due to it’s inferior finish, is a bit overpriced. Third pedal and manual shifter – I give it 50 bucks more than the 430. But that already is a maximum. The only argument where the 430 really must fall silent, is 240 versus 900 degrees of wheel rotation. But people might be used to the stuff they are used to. I drive faster – MUCH faster – with the limited steering angle, even when using paddle shifting (trying the 458 in AC). Yesterday I read that some people are out there who learned to run online races competitively – with analog sticks of gamepads. So, when you are used to use something, you can really become competitive with the choice of theirs. No matter what others do.
My recommendation? I nail it down to this simple argument: check out how important it is for you and how much money your are willing to give. If you want to get very good gear for 130-150 Euros, you cannot go wrong with the Thrustmaster Ferrari 430, again: it is extremely good equipment with solid manufacturing quality and a very valuable feel all around it. If you feel like wanting to almost double that investment, don’t save they money, but spend it for the G27, it’s good reputation all in all certainly is not undeserved. A bad investment none of the two wheels are. I think the bang-for-the buck score goes to the Thrustmaster wheel, the price I see as fair. The Logitech imo is slightly overpriced.
I just noted, I lost no word on the digital indicator for the revs. Well, that also says something on how important that feature is for the Logitech wheel: not very. I tend to use my ears and keep an eye on the ingame indicators instead.
At the time of writing this, I have collected a bit more than three hours of pure driving with the G27. The 430 I have had for I think over two years. Before that, I used an old MS Sidewinder FFB Wheel. :D
Of course I compare the G27 to the Thrustmaster Ferrari 430, my old wheel. That is imo the superior performer in the price segment around 140 Euros, whereas the price for the G27 varies between 250 and 300 Euro over here. And beside obvious feature superiority by the Logitech G27 regarding third pedal, 900° rotation and manual shifter, the 430 nevertheless not only holds its ground, but scores over the Logitech wheel in several categories.
Why is that?
The Logitech wheel feels nice to grab and hold, with that leather in your hands. The manual shifter also feels surprisingly nice, better than I expected. The pedals have varying pressure, with the brake being the strongest and the gas the weakest too press. There is a carpet clamp in the pedals’ plate that works very well. There are six buttons on the wheel’s surface. These imo are a big disappointment, they are tiny, spaced too close together, they feel very weak and extremely cheap, and really are not any pleasure to press at all. Bad buttons, plain and simple. There are 8 more buttons on the shifter’s panel, plus a cursor arrangement. These have a different feeling and more moving space, no hard click spot, but a softer, longer movement. But nothing special, you have seen buttons like these on many ordinary gamepads of lower prices. The paddles are of metal and have an okay feeling. The wheel feels very nice to hold, the leather is a good idea indeed.
The Thrustmaster wheel has 240° rotation only, and two pedals only, and no manual shifter. Like the G27, it is 28 cm in diameter, both wheels weigh almost exactly 3 kg. The wheel has 6 buttons on the face of the wheel, and a five-way switch-and-push button, and finally a four-way button that hides in the big red engine-start button, next there are two hidden button s at the side of the wheel’s axis (before the paddles), and two more programmable buttons on the motor box. That gives the 430 more buttons than the G27, and all of them located on the wheel. Especially the wheel’s face buttons have a superior feeling, they have nice movement space and a soft but well defined contact point, the 5-way rotation button also feels very “expensive”, it has no free space but a robust feel to it both when turning and pushing. The paddles, made of metal, are thicker and better polished at the edges, they are far more robust and give a much better feeling than the G27’s. The round wheel itself is coated with rubber, which actually feels quite well: not as nice as the leather of course, but better than plastic. The center, like the G27, has a metal furnish. The gas and braking pedals have a very comparable pressure resistance when comparing them to the G27, with the braking pedal again being tougher. The G27’S pedals nevertheless are slightly better because the plate really stays in position when kicking the irons hard, and by superficial visual inspection of the outside I could imagine that their mechanism is of a better construction.
All in all: the G27 wins in the design of the pedals, but the 430 imo is a whole class better in the wheel’s outside manufacturing quality and button arrangement. The leather alone of the Logitech cannot save that, because the Ferrari wheel’s grip does feel inferior compared to that, but taken for itself feels not bad at all. By looks and ergonomy, I would prefer the 430 over the G27 any day.
The shifter of the G27 cannot be compared, the 430 has no pendant. It is feature dominance by Logitech here, so to speak.
The effects of FFB now. Well, the 430 actually has quite strong FFB effects. But the G27 seems to have smoother transitions between effects, while offering the same possible strength in FFB rumble, if needed. The 430 has one motor which has no clicking sounds like the G27 occasionally has, but while not being a loud wheel, it nevertheless is a bit louder than the G27. The centering force, if you switch it on additionally to FFB effects, can be turned to equal levels in the G27 as with the 430, but the 430 again is not as smooth, but more “rude”, also, you often have to choose between either having FFB effects controlled by the sim you run, or the motor only providing a centering “spring”. So while the 430 features comparable maximum strengths in effects like the G27, the G27 wins due to the greater smoothness and variety by which it implements effects.
How do I drive with the new wheel? Well, the different turning of the wheel makes it a whole new ball game for me, also the manual clutch. I’m not used to it, I have of course learned it long time ago, but since I do not own a car I am not used to it, and so it takes me longer than drivers with routine to change gears. I currently crawl around the tracks and need 40 seconds longer at Imola for one lap. :D It feels more realistically, yes, but the idea to race competitively with this new setup, I can bury for the next months to come. I am too used to the 240° rotation and paddle-gear switching. Trying to drift turned from bad to worse. So I have to say: it is more fun to drive, and more frustration to race. Or should I ask: what racing? Well, I admit that I never have been a good driver anyway.
Was it worth those 250 bucks for me? I admit I am a bit undecided, currently, the G27 offers some feature superiority, especially the 900° rotation, the manual shifter and clutch pedal, but the 430 is a better manufacturing quality, it has a heavier, better finished feeling, and let’s face it: it looks damn sexy, like a real Ferrari wheel (which it indeed mimics, due to licensing). That little Manettino switch (I think that is how it is called) on the right side and the idea to hide the cursor keys in the engine igniter, are two more bright ideas, well implemented. The G27 however, while being inferior in paddles and buttons and almost feeling cheap there, has some smoother FFB and the attractiveness of manual shifting and greater rotation. No, I do not regret the buy, but I have one eye crying for having to give up the 430, and it is no all-out love with the Logitech wheel, no triumphant new competitor. I strongly assume that over time it will convince me indeed, but there is work to be done to achieve that affection. For its price, the Ferrari 430 really is a damn good piece of kit. And I cannot help to think that the Logitech, due to it’s inferior finish, is a bit overpriced. Third pedal and manual shifter – I give it 50 bucks more than the 430. But that already is a maximum. The only argument where the 430 really must fall silent, is 240 versus 900 degrees of wheel rotation. But people might be used to the stuff they are used to. I drive faster – MUCH faster – with the limited steering angle, even when using paddle shifting (trying the 458 in AC). Yesterday I read that some people are out there who learned to run online races competitively – with analog sticks of gamepads. So, when you are used to use something, you can really become competitive with the choice of theirs. No matter what others do.
My recommendation? I nail it down to this simple argument: check out how important it is for you and how much money your are willing to give. If you want to get very good gear for 130-150 Euros, you cannot go wrong with the Thrustmaster Ferrari 430, again: it is extremely good equipment with solid manufacturing quality and a very valuable feel all around it. If you feel like wanting to almost double that investment, don’t save they money, but spend it for the G27, it’s good reputation all in all certainly is not undeserved. A bad investment none of the two wheels are. I think the bang-for-the buck score goes to the Thrustmaster wheel, the price I see as fair. The Logitech imo is slightly overpriced.
I just noted, I lost no word on the digital indicator for the revs. Well, that also says something on how important that feature is for the Logitech wheel: not very. I tend to use my ears and keep an eye on the ingame indicators instead.