Convoy woes . . .

[GJO]

On a mission out of Lorient I have been patrolling the western approaches to the Straights of Gibralter - sinking a couple of British cargo vessels and spotting several neutral units flying French or Spanish flags.

On the morning of 21 October 1940 at about 08:20 I encountered a large convoy that entered the patrol grid from the south west travelling ENE at about 8 Knots. I am nicely ahead of the convoy so should be in a good position to attack but I am suddenly discovered, depth charged and sunk, with all hands, by one of the escorts.

I had saved the game just before the first contact with the convoy and I have reloaded it several times using various different tactics (even approaching at a depth of 20 metres at less than 2 Knots and rigged for silent running) but each time the end result is same - I am dead before I get a chance to fire a single torpedo. I don't even get a chance to identify the attacking vessel. I just hear it pinging me and then get the report 'depth charges in the water' which is always followed by fatal damage.

What am I doing wrong?

I am playing SH3 1.4 + GWX, type VIIb, 2nd Flotilla, and have a decent crew and healthy renown.

[GoldenRivet]

Are you rigged for silent running?

what speed are you using?

are you directly in front of the convoy waiting on the lead escort to pass?

Scopes down or up?

are you facing the convoy or perpendicular to it?

If i remember correctly the lead escort is always pinging, so if you are in his vicinity he will pretty much always detect you. the best approach will be to approach the convoy from ahead and left and ahead and right. giving the lead escort a wide berth is generally a good idea.

[Jimbuna]

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8636/cdw.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/cdw.gif/)

[the dark knight]

Convoys are hard..... What I have had success with so far is I line myself up with the second column, sit at 14-15m with nothing above the waves (no scopes, antennas, ect). rig for silent running, and bring both engines to all stop. Let them come to you. Then, after the leader has passed a sufficient distance, I will raise the scope so it is barely out of the water (less likely to be seen). Then pick your targets, fire and escape. To escape, I will run my engines 100 RPM's of less (or 1 knot), turn my boat 90 degrees and dive to 100m of depth. It is slow, but early in the war, it seems to work well. Other's might have a better way to go about it, but this is working for my type IXB currently. And if you are depth charged, when the destroyer starts dropping charges, go to flank. When the depth charges start exploding, make a hard turn, change your depth and as they stop exploding, back to 1 knot and do the whole dance all over again.

[GJO]

Are you rigged for silent running?

what speed are you using?

are you directly in front of the convoy waiting on the lead escort to pass?

Scopes down or up?

are you facing the convoy or perpendicular to it?

If i remember correctly the lead escort is always pinging, so if you are in his vicinity he will pretty much always detect you. the best approach will be to approach the convoy from ahead and left and ahead and right. giving the lead escort a wide berth is generally a good idea.

Yes I have tried the stealth approach - depth 20m, scopes down, slow speed silent running etc., the hydrophones always detect the mass of merchant ships but don't detect the warship so the earliest indication of the warship is when the hydrophone operator reports "the enemy is pinging us Sir" followed by "depth charges in the water" and doom! The lead warship is obviously small and fast and if it is continuously 'pinging', then it may be best to stand off to one side and fire torpedoes into the convoy from a range of well over 1000 metres.

[Aras]

Your hydrophone operator should also report Warships. You have 3 options for the hydrophone (I am not playing the same since some time so I do not remember exactly the names) like "general scan", "report closest warship", "report closest target" (merchant or warship doesn’t matter). Also keep in mind that visual reports override hydrophone reports meaning if your scope is up and the target is in visual range the hydrophone operator won’t be reporting targets.

If you have watched Das Boot, then you should know you have to keep away from Gibraltar !

[GJO]

I have tried a suicide approach with the scope up to see what this formidable escort is - it is a 'Black Swan' class sloop and a little research reveals that they were one of the more successful ASW vessels of WW2 - so I shall keep clear of them in future.

Up until now, my tactic is to keep down and quiet until the first ships of the convoy have passed over, then come up to periscope depth in the middle of the convoy and wreak as much damage as possible before diving deep and exiting out from the back of the convoy to reload and return. This doesn't work so well with a particularly fast and vigilant escort leading the convoy.

[GoldenRivet]

1940 should more or less be a cake walk, even against a black swan frigate.

something isnt right, either you are moving faster than 2 knots or you are waiting it out right in front of the convoy and the frigate is detecting you as he passes over. In my most recent run through a career in SH3 i didnt really start having problems with escorts in til early 1943, for the most part, earlier years they are pretty inexperienced.

i suggest approaching the convoy from ahead and from the port or starboard side about 1500 meters abeam the lead escort ship.

If you spend a lot of time watching the lead escort you will notice he is sailing a zig zag course ahead of the convoy searching for u-boats. but if you pay close attention - you will notice that he will periodically come to a dead stop. when he does this, his hydrophone receivers are functioning as close to 100% as possible.

if you are close when he stops, or turning more than a knot or two... he WILL find you. the further from him you are the better off you will be. but i would say 1500 to 2000 meters should be plenty of space. once he has passed by and you are in his baffles or nearly so... you can proceed with your attack against the convoy.

I recommend attacking the 2-3 largest ships you can and then diving deep when the fish leave the tubes. big tankers always are sent a spread of two from my boat. but if i am low on torpedoes then i will not target the big guys, i will go for the small merchants that are more likely to sink when they are hit with one torpedo.

good luck out there

[Ghost Dog]

its not the convoys that are tough, but the escorts! Since installing GWX, I find the escorts are much tougher. Here are some tips.

1. Try to get ahead of the convoy and let them sail over you, while you lie in wait.

2. get deep and creep into position, then come up to PD, loose your fish and 'clear datum'. Don't expect to re-attack, you'll likely not get your torpedoes reloaded in time espescially if you're at silent running.

3. sometimes you cannot avoid being detected, just make it count! If you're going to make a submerged 'run' into a convoy, get the timing right.

4. escorts generally do not ping without a reason. Either they have heard you on hydrophones, or a convoy ship has seen your mast and radioed the escorts. If you hear pinging, its time to shoot or dive.

[Aktungbby]

I have tried a suicide approach with the scope up to see what this formidable escort is - it is a 'Black Swan' class sloop and a little research reveals that they were one of the more successful ASW vessels of WW2 - so I shall keep clear of them in future.

Up until now, my tactic is to keep down and quiet until the first ships of the convoy have passed over, then come up to periscope depth in the middle of the convoy and wreak as much damage as possible before diving deep and exiting out from the back of the convoy to reload and return. This doesn't work so well with a particularly fast and vigilant escort leading the convoy.

A black swan sloop eh laddie. You're probably up against the feared Johnny Walker himself...time for a little submersible judo-using your opponent's momentum against himself. Lure him directly onto you by revealing your scope. Using a 1 meter depth steam eel at 500-600 meters do a Bungo Straight down-the-throat shot, set at highest speed. Get to 20-25 meters depth and proceed directly under him at top speed,(risky) still viewing thru a lowered scope; his cans should be set too deep and will not get all of you. Rise as he passes and take him with rear tube(s) before he turns to regain his now lost contact. If all fails at this point, head, at speed,( do not crash dive you'll need all your air later) to 200+ meters, the cellar, and prepare to have your 'lily gilded' for a while on silent running. good luck:salute:

[GoldenRivet]

A black swan sloop eh laddie. You're probably up against the feared Johnny Walker himself...time for a little submersible judo-using your opponent's momentum against himself. Lure him directly onto you by revealing your scope. Using a 1 meter depth steam eel at 500-600 meters do a Bungo Straight down-the-throat shot, set at highest speed. Get to 20-25 meters depth and proceed directly under him at top speed,(risky) still viewing thru a lowered scope; his cans should be set too deep and will not get all of you. Rise as he passes and take him with rear tube(s) before he turns to regain his now lost contact. If all fails at this point, head, at speed,( do not crash dive you'll need all your air later) to 200+ meters, the cellar, and prepare to have your 'lily gilded' for a while on silent running. good luck:salute:

Quite an unrealistic approach - however, it is doable in game depending on your realism settings and mods.

[Aktungbby]

Full realism; no mods: Works in SHII and V, haven't played SHIII...too scared. In SH II it is Johnny Walker in Tay off Greenland and is brutal as the scenario is in total fog, high seas and radar and two FATS, set long-12,500 meters and slow, are indispensable. The approach from snorkel depth to surface repeatedly to reconnect the radar sweep (1 turn only) and a swift resubmerge from gun fire is the only way to close the convoy targets in that one. Even at 200+ meters on 1 knot silent approach, the Tay can find me. The way to avoid there is to rise as he passes with blow ballast(really fast) when sonar hears the cans coming and race into the convoy in the fog surfaced before he can turn, regain and chase you down. The difficulty makes it one of my favorites, especially as the air cover back to Lorient is severe too.

[Aktungbby]

Quite an unrealistic approach - however, it is doable in game depending on your realism settings and mods.

"L'dace L'dace"- mein Kamerad! (check out my album you ol' warbird! those are at nearby Paso Robles; ):up:

[GJO]

A black swan sloop eh laddie. You're probably up against the feared Johnny Walker himself...time for a little submersible judo-using your opponent's momentum against himself. Lure him directly onto you by revealing your scope. Using a 1 meter depth steam eel at 500-600 meters do a Bungo Straight down-the-throat shot, set at highest speed. Get to 20-25 meters depth and proceed directly under him at top speed,(risky) still viewing thru a lowered scope; his cans should be set too deep and will not get all of you. Rise as he passes and take him with rear tube(s) before he turns to regain his now lost contact. If all fails at this point, head, at speed,( do not crash dive you'll need all your air later) to 200+ meters, the cellar, and prepare to have your 'lily gilded' for a while on silent running. good luck:salute:

A most formidable opponent indeed!

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Special-Events/Battle-Of-The-Atlantic/Special-Features/Capt-Johnnie-Walker
(http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Special-Events/Battle-Of-The-Atlantic/Special-Features/Capt-Johnnie-Walker)

[Jimbuna]

A most formidable opponent indeed!

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Special-Events/Battle-Of-The-Atlantic/Special-Features/Capt-Johnnie-Walker
(http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Special-Events/Battle-Of-The-Atlantic/Special-Features/Capt-Johnnie-Walker)

Never bettered IMHO :salute: