Be aware of Obamacare

[Armistead]

Don't want to start another long Obamacare thread, but be aware of this, more so if you have an elderly parent on medicare. My wifes mother had a minor stroke, was placed in observation, where she received very poor care. She had a major stoke bout 30 hours later, the damage so bad she could never recover. She was moved to a better hospital, we had hope for a few days, but not to be, treatment has been stopped and they're waiting for her to die.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/09/04/will-obamacare-play-games-with-your-actual-life/

[Tchocky]

I don't always parallel medicine to air traffic control, but when I do, I don't.

[Jimbuna]

Sorry to learn of your mother-in-laws illness.

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm saddened to hear of your mother-in-laws ordeal. My mother-in-law was diagnosed with cancer at the age of 50. There were times of touch and go. Calls for the ambulance to transport to the hospital occurred a few times. Until one day, the call was made and the ambulance was not dispatched and not going to be. That call to not make the call to the home with the ambulance came from the hospital. That evening she passed. This was 1998. Does this make anything better for your current situation? Not really. The only thing it demonstrates is somethings are just not to be. Some illness can not be overcome.

[Father Goose]

Don't want to start another long Obamacare thread, but...

I'm afraid that's inevitable.

My deepest sympathy to you and your family.

[Armistead]

I'm saddened to hear of your mother-in-laws ordeal. My mother-in-law was diagnosed with cancer at the age of 50. There were times of touch and go. Calls for the ambulance to transport to the hospital occurred a few times. Until one day, the call was made and the ambulance was not dispatched and not going to be. That call to not make the call to the home with the ambulance came from the hospital. That evening she passed. This was 1998. Does this make anything better for your current situation? Not really. The only thing it demonstrates is somethings are just not to be. Some illness can not be overcome.

Well, in her case had they admitted her and started stroke meds right away as they should've, most likely the clot wouldn't have burst 3 days later. She never even saw a neurologist in observation. Anyway, too late now, just hate my wife has to wait for him mom to die from lack of food and water, not fun to watch and wait.....just hope she goes quickly as possible

[GoldenRivet]

yeah its BS... the fiance got a letter in which her premium and copay are now over twice what she used to pay.

me... I dont even have an insurance plan anymore! My only options at this point are to either pay out the wazoo for a new policy or enslave myself to the government and jump on the welfare insurance bandwaggon :nope:

[Armistead]

yeah its BS... the fiance got a letter in which her premium and copay are now over twice what she used to pay.

me... I dont even have an insurance plan anymore! My only options at this point are to either pay out the wazoo for a new policy or enslave myself to the government and jump on the welfare insurance bandwaggon :nope:

Well, we had insurance for our several employees, even though we had less than 50. It wasn't great and they paid for half of it, but it was insurance. Course then we had to abide by new Obamacare, the best we could find was was too expensive and we can't afford it, nor can they, so we dropped it. They're on their own now.....

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, in her case had they admitted her and started stroke meds right away as they should've, most likely the clot wouldn't have burst 3 days later. She never even saw a neurologist in observation. Anyway, too late now, just hate my wife has to wait for him mom to die from lack of food and water, not fun to watch and wait.....just hope she goes quickly as possible

Sir, I completely understand. We too stood by and waited for the inevitable. In no uncertain terms is sucks. I distinctly remember the call from my wife stating the ambulance was not to be dispatched. She was at home and asked what she should do. I advised to get over there as the determination by the hospital was made for us. In hindsight that call was for the best. Sound kind of callus. However, there as no life for her mother. Blind, morphine and chemo taking it's toll. To add, her grandmother suffered a major stroke. She was allowed to sleep into that good night. It's tough and plenty of questions that will go unanswered.

[Armistead]

I went through some of it when my mother died. I guess it was easier because I knew she was dying regardless.

Hard for my wife, the day before her mother went in they decorated her house for xmas and went shopping. However, I know she'll cherish that last day in the future.

[AVGWarhawk]

I went through some of it when my mother died. I guess it was easier because I knew she was dying regardless.

Hard for my wife, the day before her mother went in they decorated her house for xmas and went shopping. However, I know she'll cherish that last day in the future.

It is a bit easier when you are given time to prepare. As in my mother-in-laws case. My father-in-law was diagnosed with liver cancer. He refused chemo. Passed three months after the diagnosis. I found my mother dead on her kitchen floor. It was 2 years ago this past November. Many unanswered questions there. Every doctor visit showed a clean bill of health. We are not infallible machines. My dad was a doctor. He always said, "If we know how easy it is to kill ourselves we would not live the way we do." He said this after pulling on his cigarette and drinking his scotch. Man do I miss my pop! I think each of us is faced with an event like this in our lives. My wife and I have seen our parents off to a better place. Give my best to your wife.

[Armistead]

Yep, my dad won't be around much longer, numerous issues and bad COPD. He still smokes two packs a day, while on oxygen. Doctors told us to leave him alone about it, not gonna quit and too late anyway.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yep, my dad won't be around much longer, numerous issues and bad COPD. He still smokes two packs a day, while on oxygen. Doctors told us to leave him alone about it, not gonna quit and too late anyway.

Same thing my pop said with smoking. Why bother? At 74, a pharmacy of pills to keep his heart going what is the difference. His quality of life was fine. Traveled the world with my mom. Literally traveled the world!

[Wolferz]

Saddened to hear of your troubles Armistead but, not unexpected with the new healthcare reforms. The reforms were not made in anyone's best interest other than the money grubbing insurance companies.:hmmm:

We all know that we are scheduled to expire at some point and now the government has decided to hasten the date in the interest of the all mighty dollar. It may turn out to rival the holocaust. At least it sure seems to be the plan to cast off what they consider the unproductive refuse of our society.
Those of us who aren't rich enough to pay our medical bills are destined for boot hill, sooner than later. I get closer to it with each passing minute due to suffering a massive stroke back in November of 2000. At that time, our local hospital tried to transfer me to another facility that refused to treat me and would not accept the transfer. I spent three days in ICU where I was left to flounder with port side limbs that didn't function properly anymore. I had trouble feeding myself and they did not care. Just as well, the food sucked anyway.:dead:

I have checked the ACA insurance marketplace to get this mandatory health insurance for milady and found out that the least expensive policy is $175.00 a month for suck arse benefits. Couple that cost with the high prices of everything and you end up juggling your bills and making a decision between food or electricity or medicine.
It sure seems like the government wants to kill us all.:down:

[Armistead]

Wolferz, one our our kennel workers has health problems and obvious we don't pay much, not in this county. We figured she'd be better off to quit working all together, get medicare, welfare, food stamps, etc...Fact is she needs health insurance and even if she had a job with cheap insurance, she couldn't afford the deductible,.....so she's gonna live fully off the government and try to find some part time work under the table....She already got a nice apt in one of the govt funded programs.....

[Aktungbby]

It sure seems like the government wants to kill us all.:down:

That is its primary function. All conflict derives from have-nots coveting the haves. Any ruler or governing body historically, will insure it's own existence at the expense of the governee, the more so when no longer offering anything of value either from internal decay- moral or infrastructure- or simply inevitable devaluation of the paper-based medium of exchange...inflation of the buck( Im Gott we trust?). Soak yer hands in ice water daily so they're used to it when they pry your gun from 'em too, as a final measure of futile suzerainty when the myth of your inalienable rights becomes fully manifest...and the universal medium of exchange...no doubt covered under ObamaCare, will be tubes of ASTROGLIDE:hmph: the nether regions once again!

[Bubblehead1980]

Sorry to hear this Armistead. Although, are we sure this was caused by obamacare, that they didn't give her the meds? or just negligence by the staff? That, sadly does happen.

[Armistead]

Sorry to hear this Armistead. Although, are we sure this was caused by obamacare, that they didn't give her the meds? or just negligence by the staff? That, sadly does happen.

Mix of both, but mostly the new regulations and fines imposed by Obamacare while people are in observation....If people are placed in observation, they absorb more of the cost, an Obamacare savings, plus much lower care. Still, the Doctors were stupid and careless, but small town, small hospital, bankrupt, good Drs. been leaving the area.

[Bubblehead1980]

Mix of both, but mostly the new regulations and fines imposed by Obamacare while people are in observation....If people are placed in observation, they absorb more of the cost, an Obamacare savings, plus much lower care. Still, the Doctors were stupid and careless, but small town, small hospital, bankrupt, good Drs. been leaving the area.


Sorry to hear that.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Saddened to hear of your troubles Armistead but, not unexpected with the new healthcare reforms. The reforms were not made in anyone's best interest other than the money grubbing insurance companies.:hmmm:

We all know that we are scheduled to expire at some point and now the government has decided to hasten the date in the interest of the all mighty dollar. It may turn out to rival the holocaust. At least it sure seems to be the plan to cast off what they consider the unproductive refuse of our society.
Those of us who aren't rich enough to pay our medical bills are destined for boot hill, sooner than later. I get closer to it with each passing minute due to suffering a massive stroke back in November of 2000. At that time, our local hospital tried to transfer me to another facility that refused to treat me and would not accept the transfer. I spent three days in ICU where I was left to flounder with port side limbs that didn't function properly anymore. I had trouble feeding myself and they did not care. Just as well, the food sucked anyway.:dead:

I have checked the ACA insurance marketplace to get this mandatory health insurance for milady and found out that the least expensive policy is $175.00 a month for suck arse benefits. Couple that cost with the high prices of everything and you end up juggling your bills and making a decision between food or electricity or medicine.
It sure seems like the government wants to kill us all.:down:
Precisely why we needed healthcare reform in the first place. What kind of garbage system does that to the sick and helpless?

I dont know what you expected for 175 bucks a month. For health insurance, that's a pittance. Insurance companies have, are, and always will find every way they can to screw you. This isnt news. This wasnt brought about suddenly. The difference is that now they cant offer 100 dollar plans with virtually no coverage at all and get away with it. And since they cant get away with it, they just dumped the loss of those lost extorted profits onto everybody else.

[Wolferz]

Precisely why we needed healthcare reform in the first place. What kind of garbage system does that to the sick and helpless?

I dont know what you expected for 175 bucks a month. For health insurance, that's a pittance. Insurance companies have, are, and always will find every way they can to screw you. This isnt news. This wasnt brought about suddenly. The difference is that now they cant offer 100 dollar plans with virtually no coverage at all and get away with it. And since they cant get away with it, they just dumped the loss of those lost extorted profits onto everybody else.

One would think that the primary goal of the ACA should actually be Affordable Care for everyone. It doesn't come close in any way, shape or form. It's just another government induced financial responsibility law, similar to auto insurance. Those on the government forced retirement, aka, Social Security will be hard pressed to budget for an additional monthly bill to buy a health policy that doesn't cover the exorbitant costs of modern health care. Only to be left with a high co-pay for any treatment received. Next stop is bill collector harassment.
Just what sick people need.
Since all people are being forced to purchase this crap, wouldn't it be better to just create a super group coverage policy? Then we all win to a degree.:hmmm: That might even eliminate the need for government subsidy of premiums for the lower income brackets.
Bottom line is... only the insurance providers will come out smelling like roses and we all get sheep dipped.

[Armistead]

One would think that the primary goal of the ACA should actually be Affordable Care for everyone. It doesn't come close in any way, shape or form. It's just another government induced financial responsibility law, similar to auto insurance. Those on the government forced retirement, aka, Social Security will be hard pressed to budget for an additional monthly bill to buy a health policy that doesn't cover the exorbitant costs of modern health care. Only to be left with a high co-pay for any treatment received. Next stop is bill collector harassment.
Just what sick people need.
Since all people are being forced to purchase this crap, wouldn't it be better to just create a super group coverage policy? Then we all win to a degree.:hmmm: That might even eliminate the need for government subsidy of premiums for the lower income brackets.
Bottom line is... only the insurance providers will come out smelling like roses and we all get sheep dipped.

It’s unsurprising that large health insurance companies are enjoying the fruits of mandatory Obamacare regulations, since they helped write them in the first place.

[CaptainMattJ.]

One would think that the primary goal of the ACA should actually be Affordable Care for everyone. It doesn't come close in any way, shape or form. It's just another government induced financial responsibility law, similar to auto insurance. Those on the government forced retirement, aka, Social Security will be hard pressed to budget for an additional monthly bill to buy a health policy that doesn't cover the exorbitant costs of modern health care. Only to be left with a high co-pay for any treatment received. Next stop is bill collector harassment.
Just what sick people need.
Since all people are being forced to purchase this crap, wouldn't it be better to just create a super group coverage policy? Then we all win to a degree.:hmmm: That might even eliminate the need for government subsidy of premiums for the lower income brackets.
Bottom line is... only the insurance providers will come out smelling like roses and we all get sheep dipped.
Except that all of that was happening BEFORE the ACA on just as large a scale. Frankly the ACA is a misguided step in the right direction. You're correct, it does little to nothing to stem the actual cost of healthcare itself (which the insurance companies have jacked up to outrageous sums). What it does do is address some of the other major issues with healthcare, such as people with pre-existing conditions essentially being left to die. It doesn't address every issue, and it addresses some issues rather poorly, but it still has beneficial measures.

As far as the "mandate" that people buy insurance (OR pay a fine), it would be a much better and more practical idea if the ACA actually addressed the cost of healthcare. The idea itself is no different than mandating car insurance. You can be the best driver in the world, doesnt mean you cant get in an accident. And if the other guy has no insurance, who pays? You do, or you indirectly pay through your insurance company who jacks up rates to spread the cost. The same can be said about healthcare. You can be perfectly healthy and lose both your legs in an accident, or suddenly develop cancer, or suffer massive injures in a crash, or any NUMBER of emergencies/unforseen accidents. And if youre an average earner and choose not to have insurance, who pays for that 70000+ dollar hospital bill? Everybody else. Ergo, its time for people to put their share in, either by paying for their own insurance or putting money back into our collective coffers. The concept, of course, is idealistic and not practical because the ACA didn't address the cost of healthcare, putting some in a worse position than they should be by forcing them to pay for what we already know are astronomical premiums.

What the ACA needs is a huge overhaul, a complete revision that gets things done and is free of useless compromises that destroy the whole purpose and effectiveness of the bill. One that addresses the mind-numbing price gouging that the insurance companies, private hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies employ to extort our sick and helpless for profit. One that actually works towards lowering the cost of healthcare directly.

[Cybermat47]

Sorry to hear of your mother-in-law's condition Armistead.

[CaptainHaplo]

Your family will be in our prayers.

[CaptainHaplo]

I think the perception here that its due to the ACA (aka Obamacare) is incorrect. While the law sucks, as AVG pointed out - this type of thing has happened well before the ACA. And I am on the record as stating the ACA is a huge error/flop.

What I find appalling is that palliative care is being withheld at this point. That is inexcusable.

[Jimbuna]

What I find appalling is that palliative care is being withheld at this point. That is inexcusable.

That is my thinking as well.

[Father Goose]

What I find appalling is that palliative care is being withheld at this point. That is inexcusable.

That is my thinking as well.

Agree 100%.
Where this may not be a direct result of BOcare, it may certainly be a sign of things to come.

[AVGWarhawk]

What I find appalling is that palliative care is being withheld at this point. That is inexcusable.

I do not believe there is no palliative care. Armstead did not state there was no care that I'm aware of. This type of care has been normally handled through hospice organizations. Hospitals will do the same.

[AVGWarhawk]

Agree 100%.
Where this may not be a direct result of BOcare, it may certainly be a sign of things to come.

Signs of things to come? Hospice care has been in use for decades. It is not things that are to come. It has been around for a very long time.

[Wolferz]

Regardless of the forced march into the poor house for many Americans that mandatory health insurance is going to bring, the problem is still squarely in the healthcare providers exorbitant rates...

I was just reading the other day that going to the ER to have a cut stitched up costs, on average, $500.00 per stitch.
That's some expensive Catgut.:nope:

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere and applying all the wrong remedies" ~~~ Groucho Marx

[AVGWarhawk]

Regardless of the forced march into the poor house for many Americans that mandatory health insurance is going to bring, the problem is still squarely in the healthcare providers exorbitant rates...



Healthcare is a business and has been handled as such. The ACA was designed to throw money at the problem of high costs instead of diminishing the high costs already in place. Just as they say trickle down economics does not work. Trickle down healthcare costs by throwing money at it will not trickle down either.

[Armistead]

Regardless of the forced march into the poor house for many Americans that mandatory health insurance is going to bring, the problem is still squarely in the healthcare providers exorbitant rates...

I was just reading the other day that going to the ER to have a cut stitched up costs, on average, $500.00 per stitch.
That's some expensive Catgut.:nope:

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere and applying all the wrong remedies" ~~~ Groucho Marx


If I need healthcare, I use our vet for lots of things, stitches,{all the time from dog bites}

Healthcare isn't going to be fixed as it drives a large part of our economy, the biggest job creator, etc...add big pharma, insurance..

Unlike most industrialized nations, we'll always put mass profit first. Wish the government would kill the state monopoly system.

I don't think Obama thinks he's failed, but that he knows this will fail, the old create chaos then do what you intended.

Anyway, we'll see more and more stuff happening like what happened to my mother in law, somehow they have to support the new millions coming into medicare. One thing I learned, you spread that pie around enough, everyone ends up eating crumbs..

[Aktungbby]

you spread that pie around enough, everyone ends up eating crumbs..
Karl Marx: "Religion is the opiate of the masses" meets up with...Woodie Guthrie: "you get pie in the sky when you die"; the dialectic bottom line : be good so "you can see yer baby when you 'leava thissa' world" and hope there's a good pastry chef upstairs!:timeout::nope:

[Armistead]

WTH.........anyways:haha:

[Jimbuna]

WTH.........anyways:haha:

Precisely :)

Won't be long before our NHS goes down similar lines.

[Mr Quatro]

ACA will work if given the chance ... someday people will praise President Obama for what he started, sure it needs work that's why we have lawmakers in Washington to make it work.

The republicans have to stop bad mouthing President Obama long enough to make it work. They think just because it has a bad web page sign up start up that the bill can be defeated and that this will result in votes for the republican party, but this just is not true.

I am republican, I did not vote for President Obama, but I see a whole nation that is hurting without healthcare. We need it, before some big event happens, not WWIII or anything like a hurricane, but still some big event could force a lot of people to need healthcare all at the same time.

So who will the hospitals take first? The people that are covered will be first, everyone else will have to wait outside in line.

We all have to get behind it and stop complaining about the cost ... just get it.

I was wondering why the news keeps saying the USA will need more doctors in 2015, 2016, and 2017 to enter the medical field now and then I figured it out, because all of the people that aren't insured now will be insured then.

The numbers are mind boggling :yep:.

[AVGWarhawk]

ACA will work if given the chance ... someday people will praise President Obama for what he started, sure it needs work that's why we have lawmakers in Washington to make it work.

The republicans have to stop bad mouthing President Obama long enough to make it work. They think just because it has a bad web page sign up start up that the bill can be defeated and that this will result in votes for the republican party, but this just is not true.

I am republican, I did not vote for President Obama, but I see a whole nation that is hurting without healthcare. We need it, before some big event happens, not WWIII or anything like a hurricane, but still some big event could force a lot of people to need healthcare all at the same time.

So who will the hospitals take first? The people that are covered will be first, everyone else will have to wait outside in line.

We all have to get behind it and stop complaining about the cost ... just get it.

I was wondering why the news keeps saying the USA will need more doctors in 2015, 2016, and 2017 to enter the medical field now and then I figured it out, because all of the people that aren't insured now will be insured then.

The numbers are mind boggling :yep:.

That is all well and good but the law was predicated on lies. Second, just stop complaining about the cost? Sorry sir, many budget month to month. Most did not budget in a new car payment at a drop of a hat. How could anyone budget anything when the costs have not been known for 3 years? Also,add the lying that it will cost next to nothing for most and families will see a reduction of $2500.00 a year in premiums? This was blowing smoke. If, for example, I was not covered by my work. Family of 4. No smokers. I do not qualify for subsides. The cost per month for my family is $1200.00. Not in my budget Mr. Quatro but I'm forced to pay by law or get fined.

Let's also mention for this to work millions of young healthy Americans need to sign up to support the millions auto-enrolled into Medicaid. Let's toss in the fact that everyone needs to have coverage for child birth. Mr. Quatro many do not need that type of coverage. Me be one of them. It is a crap law and will remain a crap law until any of the clowns in DC actually read the law thus making changes so it will work. Doing it on the fly is worse than the simple signing of the law three years ago without reading the bill. Then all on Capitol Hill running home for Christmas.

[Father Goose]

I do not believe there is no palliative care. Armstead did not state there was no care that I'm aware of. This type of care has been normally handled through hospice organizations. Hospitals will do the same.

Signs of things to come? Hospice care has been in use for decades. It is not things that are to come. It has been around for a very long time.

AVG, are you having a conversation with yourself? :O:

I never said anything about hospice and neither did Armistead. You made that comparison and threw it at me? :confused:
The poor woman was not in hospice, she was in a hospital...NOT getting the care she should have been provided during those critical 30 hours. Very sad.

That is all well and good but the law was predicated on lies.

It is a crap law and will remain a crap law until any of the clowns in DC actually read the law thus making changes so it will work. Doing it on the fly is worse than the simple signing of the law three years ago without reading the bill. Then all on Capitol Hill running home for Christmas.

Now there's something I support you on 100%!

[Wolferz]

We all know that anything the Federal government sticks its fingers and noses in turns up FUBAR from the get go.:stare:

Big insurance, big pharma and big business medical drove this turd to market. I don't think a single critter in DC asked any of their constituents what they wanted. They only asked the rooster suckers who padded their pockets for a yea vote on the bill.

[Bubblehead1980]

ACA will work if given the chance ... someday people will praise President Obama for what he started, sure it needs work that's why we have lawmakers in Washington to make it work.

The republicans have to stop bad mouthing President Obama long enough to make it work. They think just because it has a bad web page sign up start up that the bill can be defeated and that this will result in votes for the republican party, but this just is not true.

I am republican, I did not vote for President Obama, but I see a whole nation that is hurting without healthcare. We need it, before some big event happens, not WWIII or anything like a hurricane, but still some big event could force a lot of people to need healthcare all at the same time.

So who will the hospitals take first? The people that are covered will be first, everyone else will have to wait outside in line.

We all have to get behind it and stop complaining about the cost ... just get it.

I was wondering why the news keeps saying the USA will need more doctors in 2015, 2016, and 2017 to enter the medical field now and then I figured it out, because all of the people that aren't insured now will be insured then.

The numbers are mind boggling :yep:.

Wow, someone has sucked down the kool aid.

Lol, first off, this monstrosity is doomed to fail, it's wrong and and in order to save healthcare in this country, it must be repealed.First, the law will not bring down costs, it's taxes and regulations has caused them to rise.

Second, it takes a lot of choice from patients and doctors and involves too much red tape.

Costs matter, in terms of the now mandated consumer being able to afford the high premiums and deductibles.Also matters in terms of more US debt since medicaid explansion and subsidies will be paid for with more borrowed money.

This law is a disaster already and will be even more of one in future.Only good part is it will help Barack Hussein Obama be remembered in the negative manner he should be.Just a shame americans were so gullible and fell for this load of crap.Myself and others who have screamed about this idiotic law since day one are vindicated, it's a disaster.Wake up, really.

[August]

Myself and others who have screamed about this idiotic law since day one are vindicated, it's a disaster.Wake up, really.


Yet you and these others still, since day one, have not come up with a viable alternative either, just remember that. Obamacare is never going to be successfully repealed unless there is something to replace it.

[eddie]

:agree:

[CaptainHaplo]

Yet you and these others still, since day one, have not come up with a viable alternative either, just remember that. Obamacare is never going to be successfully repealed unless there is something to replace it.

Repealing it IS an alternative - as in returning a private business sector to - oh I dunno - private businesses....

You see - it worked well for MOST people. Remember - 80% of people got health insurance through their employer or the government.

So the ACA is supposedly to help that 15% that is uninsured....
See here for details...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/30/%3Fp%3D63297/

But the article even admits that the ACA will still insure less than half the uninsured... Or about 25 Million by 2020. Keep that in mind... 6+ years to get 25 million people insured.

Why is that important? Because up to 80% of the individual health care buyers are losing access to their plans. Guess what - that is ~58 Millions. So we threw ~58 Million people off of their insurance plans in one year just to insure 25 Million in in 6. Not to mention that next year - another 100 million are likely to lose coverage due to the employer mandates causing employers to drop insurance entirely.

So that forces people into the "exchange" system - where supposedly costs were lower... except they are not.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/02/fact-check-premiums-will-go-up/

So basically we borked a system that was working for most of the people, just so 7% of the people could get "helped".

Repeal of the ACA will fix it for the 158+Million that are at risk - which is a damned sight better than screwing them all over for 15 Million people.

So yes - simple repeal and a return to the free market system IS an alternative. Maybe not the best one - but a hell of a lot better than keeping the ACA.

[Father Goose]

:agree: Go CaptainHaplo!!! :sign_yeah:

Not to mention that next year - another 100 million are likely to lose coverage due to the employer mandates causing employers to drop insurance entirely.

Torches and pitchforks time!

[August]

Repealing it IS an alternative - as in returning a private business sector to - oh I dunno - private businesses....

You see - it worked well for MOST people. Remember - 80% of people got health insurance through their employer or the government.


It didn't really work all that well with yearly double digit increases to the annual cost was well on it's way to making health care insurance unaffordable for a great many of that 80%.

I'm not saying the ACA is any better, and i'll grant you that it may even be worse but a simple repeal with no replacement for it is not going to help the situation one little bit.

[Armistead]

My wifes mother passed last night. Rather beautiful passing, surrounded by her 3 daughters, husband and grandchildren, everyone with their hands on her as she passed....

However, it should've never happened.....

[August]

My wifes mother passed last night. Rather beautiful passing, surrounded by her 3 daughters, husband and grandchildren, everyone with their hands on her as she passed....

However, it should've never happened.....


Sorry for your loss Armistead.

[CaptainHaplo]

My wifes mother passed last night. Rather beautiful passing, surrounded by her 3 daughters, husband and grandchildren, everyone with their hands on her as she passed....


May her soul find shelter in the hand of the Creator, and may her family find peace in this time of sorrow.

However, it should've never happened.....

Agreed.

[CaptainHaplo]

It didn't really work all that well with yearly double digit increases to the annual cost was well on it's way to making health care insurance unaffordable for a great many of that 80%.

I'm not saying the ACA is any better, and i'll grant you that it may even be worse but a simple repeal with no replacement for it is not going to help the situation one little bit.

If you grant that the ACA is "worse" - then repeal is at the least a start to help the situation compared to what it is today. Maybe not help from where it was - but we don't live in the past - we live in today. Making tomorrow better than today is helping the situation.

Health Care reform is simple - its called common sense.
What should be done is the following...

1) Repeal the ACA and return Health Care insurance to the private sector.
2) Institute tort reform that negates the need for a Dr. to run every test under the sun just because you stubbed your big toe - simply because he doesn't want to get sued.
3) Get government out of all health care. Yes - get rid of Medicaid and Medicare. Why? Because by underpaying for the care of the poor and elderly - they are raising the costs on everyone else. That is right - the government is a huge reason why health care costs are skyrocketing.
4) Open up health insurance competition nationwide. Let Joe and Sally consumer shop across state lines for the best deal. Competition lowers prices - which is another reason the health exchanges are seeing costs increase - there is little to no competition in them.
5) Reform how patents are dealt with. Right now, if a company produced a miracle cancer cure in a pill - they could stop a generic from being produced for 7 years.
6) Allow for generic medications sooner - and allow for them to be purchased from specific foreign locations that agree and comly with meeting the necessary safety testing.
7) Stop demanding that people who can't (and often choose not to be able to) pay for their own care get it for free (or subsidized).

Yep - basically - your own personal doctor is not a human right - nor is it a defined constitutional right. If you can't pay for it - you shouldn't just get it for free.

[Wolferz]

My sincere condolences to your wife's family Armistead.

May your mother in law rest in peace and be accepted into the creator's loving care.

[AVGWarhawk]

My wifes mother passed last night. Rather beautiful passing, surrounded by her 3 daughters, husband and grandchildren, everyone with their hands on her as she passed....

However, it should've never happened.....

My condolences sir.

[Tribesman]

Condolences for your loss Armistead

[u crank]

Sorry for your loss Armistead.

God bless you all.

[August]

If you grant that the ACA is "worse" - then repeal is at the least a start to help the situation compared to what it is today. Maybe not help from where it was - but we don't live in the past - we live in today. Making tomorrow better than today is helping the situation.

I didn't grant it was "worse", I just said it might not be "any better". The way I see it the previous system (or lack thereof) was just as unworkable if not more so. Just because the life boat (Obama-Boat?) is ill designed and taking on water that doesn't mean we should all jump into the raging sea. Repeal gets rid of the popular things about the ACA along with the unpopular.

Health Care reform is simple - its called common sense.
What should be done is the following...

1) The same private sector that has caused costs to rise by leaps and bounds every year? The same market where it's more profitable to treat the symptoms instead of curing the disease? The ACA is a response to a problem, a real problem, a problem that the American people want addressed. It's flawed for sure but so far I am not convinced that it is any worse than what we had before.

2) Might be a good idea though I can see how it would end up with patients unable to get adequately compensated for bad medical care.

3) So instead of underfunding them you prefer the poor and elderly go completely without medical care? Maybe we should just set them out on ice floes and be done with it.

4) A good idea that should be implemented whether or not the ACA is repealed.

5) 6) Sounds like you're asking drug companies to spend gobs of money on research and development but then let anyone who can mix chemicals in some foreign sweatshop steal all their profits. What would be the motivation to come up with these wonder drugs in the first place? What is the likely market response to taking the profit out of something but none of the liability or risk?

7) Problem here is you don't differentiate between can't and won't. While I might sympathize (to a point) with your feelings about the latter, I think a nation that would not do it's duty to care for the former should be ashamed of itself.

[Kixa]

Sorry for your loss Armistead.
" Rather beautiful passing, surrounded by her 3 daughters, husband and grandchildren, everyone with their hands on her as she passed...."

[CaptainHaplo]

I'm not saying the ACA is any better, and i'll grant you that it may even be worse but a simple repeal with no replacement for it is not going to help the situation one little bit.

I didn't grant it was "worse",

Yea, you pretty much did.

Repeal gets rid of the popular things about the ACA along with the unpopular.

Which is what, exactly? The no more pre-existing condition clause? What else?

1) The same private sector that has caused costs to rise by leaps and bounds every year?

So instituting a system where the prices go up faster is the right course of action? No. If your complaining about the rise in costs - how can you justify making costs rise faster - which is what the ACA has done? A repeal won't "fix" rising costs - but is sure won't mean cost increases accelerate faster. What your doing is saying that we were headed for a cliff at 50 miles an hour - now we are headed there at 100 miles and hour and we shouldn't slow back down to 50.... Makes no sense to me.

The same market where it's more profitable to treat the symptoms instead of curing the disease? The ACA is a response to a problem, a real problem, a problem that the American people want addressed. It's flawed for sure but so far I am not convinced that it is any worse than what we had before.

OK - lets look at that. Your saying that the free market benefits from treating the symptom instead of curing the disease. I agree. However - show me one way - other than the so called "death panels" (Independent Payment Advisory board) that will determine what treatment is available - leading to symptom treatment - or death - how exactly does the ACA actually change our health care system into one having an interest in curing the patient?

Sure - death is technically a "cure" - but not one most patients want to undergo. So the ACA does nothing to "fix" the problem you say it should be kept for. I can (and have) listed a number of reasons to repeal it - I have yet to hear a single one that holds water to keep it.

2) Might be a good idea though I can see how it would end up with patients unable to get adequately compensated for bad medical care.
I don't propose making a malpractice suit impossible - just reform the system to where every doctor can spend time helping the patient instead of covering his/her ass.

3) So instead of underfunding them you prefer the poor and elderly go completely without medical care? Maybe we should just set them out on ice floes and be done with it.
Personal responsibility is somehow a bad thing? When you say the poor do you mean the teatsuckers that live in housing paid for by the working man's taxes, watching a big screen tv purchased with taxpayer funded welfare and eating steaks bought with food stamps? Let me turn your question around - why should I have to pay for my medical care when others don't? And why should I have to pay for theirs - when they don't pay for their own or mine? The question you asked is worded to pull heart strings - its emotion based - yet strangely skips the "fairness" question.

4) A good idea that should be implemented whether or not the ACA is repealed.

5) 6) Sounds like you're asking drug companies to spend gobs of money on research and development but then let anyone who can mix chemicals in some foreign sweatshop steal all their profits. What would be the motivation to come up with these wonder drugs in the first place? What is the likely market response to taking the profit out of something but none of the liability or risk?

It doesn't remove profit. Still - kind of ironic that you ask this after complaining about how the profit motive is to treat the symptom and not cure the disease. A company that develops a "wonder drug" for whatever ill makes its money back a lot sooner than 7 years. Simply shorten it to 3 or 4 years. How long is too long?

7) Problem here is you don't differentiate between can't and won't. While I might sympathize (to a point) with your feelings about the latter, I think a nation that would not do it's duty to care for the former should be ashamed of itself.

Again - why "can't" they - or why "won't" they? Yes - can I see us providing health care for a quadriplegic? Sure. They truly can't. Can I see us doing it for a person suffering from dementia? Yes.

Can I see us doing it for a 75 yr old who chose not to plan ahead? Yes - but only because that man or woman was promised it decades ago.

But the guy who is 60 and has been looking at a system that has been falling apart and expects to still ride the gravy train because he gives nay damn and screw everyone else as long as he gets his? Nope.

Personal responsibility.

I am 40. I have been promised social security and medicare when I am older too. I sure as heck am not banking on that - because the ills have been foreseeable and I have not put all my eggs in a basket I could see was falling apart. And yes - I have little sympathy for those who chose to abrogate their own personal responsibility to the government and the future generations just so they could "get theirs".

[Armistead]

When it comes to healthcare, seems for every action, law or regulation, you end up with several unknowns and counter reactions. For instance, this crappy "Observation Status" That started because the govt felt hospitals were not giving people proper care and possibly releasing them too early, so if a hospital releases someone and they're readmitted in 30 days, the hospital has to pay a big fine. The counter to this and regulations allow it was instead of admitting people, they're placed on observation status, often placed in a regular room, but many hospitals now have observation wings. In observation, since you're not admitted, you'll pay a larger chunk of the bill. More than likely you wont see the specialist needed and studies show you'll get lower care and often they miss stuff.....it's actually caused quite a stink, because people are dying.
Simply, the plan was "better" treatment, but passing more cost to the sick person and imposing fines on hospitals. Doctors aren't treating patients, but meeting strict regulations so they don't get fined. It's the same crap as education, teacers spend more time teaching how to pass state and federal test, than teaching.

When my mother-in-law was admitted, it was clear she had a minor stroke, her face was sagged on the left, left side body not working, couldn't talk much. She was given a CT that showed no damage, common for a minor stroke. Typically a neurologist would come and do neuro test and if a minor stroke start clot busting meds...she didn't see one. The next day they said it was a possible bladder infection gone to the brain and put on meds for infection....she got up and walked that day.. The third day she had a major stoke, simply the clot that was there busted. We sent her to a big city hospital with a stroke team and they confirmed she had a minor stroke that finally busted 3 days later. They decided the damage was too much and per her will, family had to let her go. Note, it was medicare auditors 700 miles away deciding what treatment she could get the entire time.

Sadly, we didn't know, but all she had was medicare, had she a supplement or other insurance, she probably would've been admitted instead of being observed...maybe.....Sad, at the hospice center, the hospice nurse asked what happened, when I told her she was placed in observation, she just rolled her eyes and shook her head and said she sees it everyday.

Course, it is a good way to save cost, kill the elderly and others on medicare, fine hospitals and let govt auditors decide your treatment over your Doctors...

[soopaman2]

I never ever rooted for a Tea Partier. But considering a conservative supreme court approved of a Liberal "tax", they might be the only thing to save us from our own government.

I always laughed at TP'S, But I kinda get it now.

I am so disappointed by Obama. (still better than Romney or Palin, so keep your pants on)

Chris Christie 2016, moderate republican, not into your wifes womb or what she does with it, but fiscally smart.

I want a fiscally smart man. I want to be off of China....

[August]

Yea, you pretty much did.

"may" not "will". It's too early to see how bad the ACA will be and how the health care situation would be today had the ACA never been enacted cannot be proven.

Which is what, exactly? The no more pre-existing condition clause? What else?
Preventative care, kids on parents policies until 26, you know, all the things that are popular with the electorate. The same electorate that will punish the party that takes those things away without installing suitable substitutes.


So instituting a system where the prices go up faster is the right course of action? No. If your complaining about the rise in costs - how can you justify making costs rise faster - which is what the ACA has done? A repeal won't "fix" rising costs - but is sure won't mean cost increases accelerate faster. What your doing is saying that we were headed for a cliff at 50 miles an hour - now we are headed there at 100 miles and hour and we shouldn't slow back down to 50.... Makes no sense to me.

You're assuming that costs have indeed risen faster and if so will continue to do so. The jury is still out on that. For all we know what you think will slow things down might actually cause this proverbial car to accelerate up to 200mph.

OK - lets look at that. Your saying that the free market benefits from treating the symptom instead of curing the disease. I agree. However - show me one way - other than the so called "death panels" (Independent Payment Advisory board) that will determine what treatment is available - leading to symptom treatment - or death - how exactly does the ACA actually change our health care system into one having an interest in curing the patient?

Maybe it doesn't but then again the government, unlike the market, isn't driven purely by monetary greed. I may not trust the Feds but I trust the corporate world even less.

Sure - death is technically a "cure" - but not one most patients want to undergo. So the ACA does nothing to "fix" the problem you say it should be kept for. I can (and have) listed a number of reasons to repeal it - I have yet to hear a single one that holds water to keep it.

Your reasoning may hold water or it may be just as flawed as that of the Democrats who promoted the ACA. I'm just saying that arguing for repeal without a realistic substitution is not a winning political strategy.

I don't propose making a malpractice suit impossible - just reform the system to where every doctor can spend time helping the patient instead of covering his/her ass.

Sounds a lot easier said than done.

Personal responsibility is somehow a bad thing? When you say the poor do you mean the teatsuckers that live in housing paid for by the working man's taxes, watching a big screen tv purchased with taxpayer funded welfare and eating steaks bought with food stamps? Let me turn your question around - why should I have to pay for my medical care when others don't? And why should I have to pay for theirs - when they don't pay for their own or mine? The question you asked is worded to pull heart strings - its emotion based - yet strangely skips the "fairness" question.

Obviously emotion based appeals are useless to a guy who thinks that being poor means being a "teatsucker".

It doesn't remove profit. Still - kind of ironic that you ask this after complaining about how the profit motive is to treat the symptom and not cure the disease. A company that develops a "wonder drug" for whatever ill makes its money back a lot sooner than 7 years. Simply shorten it to 3 or 4 years. How long is too long?

There are armies of lawyers to address that issue. Who are you to say it's too long?

Again - why "can't" they - or why "won't" they? Yes - can I see us providing health care for a quadriplegic? Sure. They truly can't. Can I see us doing it for a person suffering from dementia? Yes.

Can I see us doing it for a 75 yr old who chose not to plan ahead? Yes - but only because that man or woman was promised it decades ago.

But the guy who is 60 and has been looking at a system that has been falling apart and expects to still ride the gravy train because he gives nay damn and screw everyone else as long as he gets his? Nope.

Personal responsibility.

I am 40. I have been promised social security and medicare when I am older too. I sure as heck am not banking on that - because the ills have been foreseeable and I have not put all my eggs in a basket I could see was falling apart. And yes - I have little sympathy for those who chose to abrogate their own personal responsibility to the government and the future generations just so they could "get theirs".

I guess I'm just not as cold hearted as you. I believe that basic healthcare should be provided to all of our citizens regardless of their ability to pay. I also think i'm on the eventual winning side of the issue too.

[AVGWarhawk]

When it comes to healthcare, seems for every action, law or regulation, you end up with several unknowns and counter reactions. For instance, this crappy "Observation Status" That started because the govt felt hospitals were not giving people proper care and possibly releasing them too early, so if a hospital releases someone and they're readmitted in 30 days, the hospital has to pay a big fine. The counter to this and regulations allow it was instead of admitting people, they're placed on observation status, often placed in a regular room, but many hospitals now have observation wings. In observation, since you're not admitted, you'll pay a larger chunk of the bill. More than likely you wont see the specialist needed and studies show you'll get lower care and often they miss stuff.....it's actually caused quite a stink, because people are dying.
Simply, the plan was "better" treatment, but passing more cost to the sick person and imposing fines on hospitals. Doctors aren't treating patients, but meeting strict regulations so they don't get fined. It's the same crap as education, teacers spend more time teaching how to pass state and federal test, than teaching.

When my mother-in-law was admitted, it was clear she had a minor stroke, her face was sagged on the left, left side body not working, couldn't talk much. She was given a CT that showed no damage, common for a minor stroke. Typically a neurologist would come and do neuro test and if a minor stroke start clot busting meds...she didn't see one. The next day they said it was a possible bladder infection gone to the brain and put on meds for infection....she got up and walked that day.. The third day she had a major stoke, simply the clot that was there busted. We sent her to a big city hospital with a stroke team and they confirmed she had a minor stroke that finally busted 3 days later. They decided the damage was too much and per her will, family had to let her go. Note, it was medicare auditors 700 miles away deciding what treatment she could get the entire time.

Sadly, we didn't know, but all she had was medicare, had she a supplement or other insurance, she probably would've been admitted instead of being observed...maybe.....Sad, at the hospice center, the hospice nurse asked what happened, when I told her she was placed in observation, she just rolled her eyes and shook her head and said she sees it everyday.

Course, it is a good way to save cost, kill the elderly and others on medicare, fine hospitals and let govt auditors decide your treatment over your Doctors...


Pencil pushers have been making the call for years. After the birth of our first child 18 years ago we were told insurance pays for one night. That's it. My aunt had a major surgery. Was sent home much to early than recovery time needed. She was found dead on her couch. Insurance was not going to pay for intermediate recovery care. My point is, the ACA has done nothing but exacerbate the problem between doctors and their recommendations as to what the insurance company dictates. The only winner at the moment is the big money insurance industry.

Had dinner with our friends daughter tonight. She is a nurse. Two items, confirmed what you said about 30 days and any issue that might arise from treatment. If the patient returns the cost is on the hospital. Second, the hospital she works is losing money like mad since the law was in effect. Medicaid increased rolls. The hospitals will raise prices to cover. The ACA has really screwed the system.

[Armistead]

Pencil pushers have been making the call for years. After the birth of our first child 18 years ago we were told insurance pays for one night. That's it. My aunt had a major surgery. Was sent home much to early than recovery time needed. She was found dead on her couch. Insurance was not going to pay for intermediate recovery care. My point is, the ACA has done nothing but exacerbate the problem between doctors and their recommendations as to what the insurance company dictates. The only winner at the moment is the big money insurance industry.

Had dinner with our friends daughter tonight. She is a nurse. Two items, confirmed what you said about 30 days and any issue that might arise from treatment. If the patient returns the cost is on the hospital. Second, the hospital she works is losing money like mad since the law was in effect. Medicaid increased rolls. The hospitals will raise prices to cover. The ACA has really screwed the system.

We have a small town, our hospital is bankrupt, although the large city next to use is trying to take it over.

I don't know the answer. I do think it's sad that people have to live in pain, go broke or die over profit, often in sight of wonderful medical hospitals.

[Armistead]

I never ever rooted for a Tea Partier. But considering a conservative supreme court approved of a Liberal "tax", they might be the only thing to save us from our own government.

I always laughed at TP'S, But I kinda get it now.

I am so disappointed by Obama. (still better than Romney or Palin, so keep your pants on)

Chris Christie 2016, moderate republican, not into your wifes womb or what she does with it, but fiscally smart.

I want a fiscally smart man. I want to be off of China....

Liberals will probably still vote for Clinton, while the religious right doesn't show up for Christie.....I like him, but don't see him winning.

[Jimbuna]

My wifes mother passed last night. Rather beautiful passing, surrounded by her 3 daughters, husband and grandchildren, everyone with their hands on her as she passed....

However, it should've never happened.....

Sincere condolences Armistead.

[AVGWarhawk]

We have a small town, our hospital is bankrupt, although the large city next to use is trying to take it over.

I don't know the answer. I do think it's sad that people have to live in pain, go broke or die over profit, often in sight of wonderful medical hospitals.

The answer is certainly not the ACA. It is backwards and never addresses the true issue of healthcare. That is the exuberant cost.


Liberals will probably still vote for Clinton, while the religious right doesn't show up for Christie.....I like him, but don't see him winning.

I'm so very tired of seeing a Clinton. The first woman President? My visions are not Clinton. As for Christie, he is to wishy washy. Goes with the tide. I'm voting Ben Carson running or not.

[Bubblehead1980]

Yet you and these others still, since day one, have not come up with a viable alternative either, just remember that. Obamacare is never going to be successfully repealed unless there is something to replace it.


Same old talking point, yes we have.While obamacare was being drafted, the Democratic majority excluded all ideas from the opposition, they wanted to own this and oh boy, do they lol.

Look a law actually about healthcare would have been this:

Medicaid available to those who can not afford insurance, pay a low yearly premium, if can't due to low income, "free" for them.Use money now wasted on obamacare to properly fund the expansion and pay hospitals, doctors properly so more will accept the insurance.


No denial for pre existing conditions

Ability to purchase health insurance across states lines, this would breed much competition and bring down costs in a meaningful way.Options are limited in many states, creates de fact monopolies.

Lower taxes relating to medical industry

Tort reform, lower malpractice insurance rates would lower overall costs.

These simple things were mentioned as ways to reform healthcare but the president and dems said no, because this way not about healthcare, its about power and money.Either they are too ignorant and blinded by their flawed and failed ideology or they just did not care.

[Bubblehead1980]

Sorry for the loss Armistead, I know it makes even more painful knowing it could have went different if not for their incompetence and red tape.

[Father Goose]

My wifes mother passed last night.

My sincerest sympathy to you and your family.