Finding IJN carriers at Coral Sea

[jldjs]

I used mission editor to find the location coordinates of the carrier force at Coral Sea. For example, on May 7, 0600 hrs, the map show the carriers should be at aprox 158.42E, 13.85S. So I'm on patrol, and arrive at those coordinates at that time, 0600, wait, but nothing happens. I'm in a Sargo, no radar, surfaced, but get no sonar alert. Tried again, this time at periscope depth, get no sonar alert. What am I doing wrong? Any advice as to how to get this force to spawn?

[CapnScurvy]

As far as I know, Task Forces, Merchants, or anything else that spawns from a "mission" file needs at least 20 Kilometers of distance between the Spawn Point and your sub position. Just sitting on the spawn coordinates, at the correct time, won't allow the spawn to initiate.

It's done this way so you never see the game make the AI forces from "thin air".

Try to intercept the TF after its spawn, some distance away from that point.

[Cybermat47]

So, you're looking to win the war earlier, eh? :)

[jldjs]

Nope, if so, I 'd have no reason to try and find the carriers at Midway!
It's just on my bucket list! Couple of years ago I found the invasion fleet, but couldn't find the carrier fleet, so I'm back at it!

[Rammstein0991]

I always seem to miss battles, the only time I ever seem to find flat tops is either harbor raiding Honshu and the occasional tf that suddenly comes crawling up my tailpipe from nowhere >.>

[Admiral Halsey]

I always seem to miss battles, the only time I ever seem to find flat tops is either harbor raiding Honshu and the occasional tf that suddenly comes crawling up my tailpipe from nowhere >.>

You use any mods? If you're using stock most of the battles aren't even in the game. The few that are are horribly made. If you want a mod for the battles alone use Run Silent Run Deep the campaign.

[Armistead]

What mods are you using. Not sure of the coordinates, but as long as your not sitting near the original spawn point, it should spawn when it comes in contact with you. It also depends upon the radius set, ships don't spawn exactly along the line if the traffic mods set a spawn radius.

The best place I find to ambush the group with RSRD is when it comes around San Cristobal. Just sit about 20 nms south of it and you should catch it.

[TorpX]

I always seem to miss battles, the only time I ever seem to find flat tops is either harbor raiding Honshu and the occasional tf that suddenly comes crawling up my tailpipe from nowhere >.>
I've never seen any either. Since I don't go looking for them, that isn't really a surprise. I like the fact that they are out there *somewhere*, but I don't want to make them the centerpiece of my game.

[Liquidx3]

I have played SH:IV for years and never, ever got this lucky. It's a bit like those of us that have never been to New York in SH:III. Oh and, at this very second, (as I type this I just received a missive from Der Fuhrer about Kursk) I am about 60km west of Lisbon; doing a '43 IXD2 run. Yes, I got SH:III and have been running GWX for about three months. Nothing like spending twenty minutes plotting the course of a vessel off the coast of Spain, in bad weather, only to discover that it's a gorram SCHOONER!

Anyway my career was fresh, first patrol, and it wasn't anything extravagant. Only problem is that my typical start is just after Pearl. It's rare that I begin past '42. So there I was -- Somewhere in the Pacific. I was staying submerged during the day and only running on top at night. I know it's probably a bit much at this point in the war but what the hell. Anyway, I was running at 2 knots around 95 feet and I pick up a contact.

A few minutes later it's clear that the "contact" stretches over nearly ten degrees. OK, it's a convoy. Well, let's start plotting their course. It very quickly becomes clear that the entire host is headed right for me. I maintain shallow depth, sparse use of the scope, and just drift at ~1 kt on silent running; as slow as I can go. After some time the "contact" continues to increase in noise and bearing. I've been glued to sonar for the past twenty minutes (realtime). After some time, judging by the insane S/N, I raise the attack scope for a quick peek. The escorts have passed me, a few of the light cruisers are just shy off the mark and here, dead center on the scope; is a Jap(anese) carrier.

I have played SH:IV practically since it came out. Vanilla first and then TMO up to the current version as of the last update. I have never been this close to an IJN carrier.

I lined up and blew my entire wad right at 'em. That big bastard sank within a few minutes and I was credited with ~44,000 tons.

Then it was get deep quickly and let the escorts try and sort it out. It wasn't too difficult to clear datum and "illude" (Bing knows but Google does not...odd.) the escorts. The rest of the patrol was uneventful but I will never forget that moment.

[CapnScurvy]

I don't quite remember the exact mod(s) I was using (I'm thinking it was TMO and its RSRDC companion) while on patrol along Japan's coast of one of its major ports. I picked up a sonar detection of a ship approaching, finding a lone Hiryu CV coming into range. No escorts, just the carrier heading for the mouth of the bay.

Needless to say, it never made it to port.

While out at sea, one of the tell-tale signs of a carrier near by, is when you get a heavy amount of plane flyovers. Its hard to guess just in which direction the carrier(s) may be, but take a chance and pick one or the other. Planes far from land mean only one thing.

[Dread Knot]

Planes far from land mean only one thing.

Single engines planes maybe. Some of those Emily and Mavis 4-engine flying boats had a staggering range in excess of 4,000 miles. Even the nimble Zero had a range of 1,930 miles with an external tank.

If Vals or Kates above then I'm thinking carrier in the neighborhood.

[jldjs]

As far as I know, Task Forces, Merchants, or anything else that spawns from a "mission" file needs at least 20 Kilometers of distance between the Spawn Point and your sub position. Just sitting on the spawn coordinates, at the correct time, won't allow the spawn to initiate.


Good suggestion, so I tried that on 3 or 4 locations I got from viewing Carrier Div plot as viewed in Mission Editor, but to no avail:06:. I still don't understand the time factor I guess. I equated my mission time with the times from the mission as viewed from the ME. But, my mission time is based on my base, right? Which is either PH or Surabaya. PH is 3 hours ahead, and Surabaya is 3 hours behind the time zone of the battle, Coral Sea. Tried that too but still could not find the Car Div.:nope:

[Rammstein0991]

I don't quite remember the exact mod(s) I was using (I'm thinking it was TMO and its RSRDC companion) while on patrol along Japan's coast of one of its major ports. I picked up a sonar detection of a ship approaching, finding a lone Hiryu CV coming into range. No escorts, just the carrier heading for the mouth of the bay.

Needless to say, it never made it to port.

While out at sea, one of the tell-tale signs of a carrier near by, is when you get a heavy amount of plane flyovers. Its hard to guess just in which direction the carrier(s) may be, but take a chance and pick one or the other. Planes far from land mean only one thing.

Realistically you simply observe where most of the planes approach your location from, chances are the carrier would be in that direction

[Admiral Halsey]

Good suggestion, so I tried that on 3 or 4 locations I got from viewing Carrier Div plot as viewed in Mission Editor, but to no avail:06:. I still don't understand the time factor I guess. I equated my mission time with the times from the mission as viewed from the ME. But, my mission time is based on my base, right? Which is either PH or Surabaya. PH is 3 hours ahead, and Surabaya is 3 hours behind the time zone of the battle, Coral Sea. Tried that too but still could not find the Car Div.:nope:

By the time the Coral Sea battle happened shouldn't Surabaya have been already been captured?

[jldjs]

By the time the Coral Sea battle happened shouldn't Surabaya have been already been captured?

Yes. But I started this mission from Surabaya, and then received the msg that Surabaya was captured and was re=based to PH. So, what is the base time for the game as I play it, since I have not yet gone back to PH. I rearmed at Brisbane and "hung around" so I could get into the Coral Sea battle. If only I could find the IJN Car Div:06:

[Admiral Halsey]

Yes. But I started this mission from Surabaya, and then received the msg that Surabaya was captured and was re=based to PH. So, what is the base time for the game as I play it, since I have not yet gone back to PH. I rearmed at Brisbane and "hung around" so I could get into the Coral Sea battle. If only I could find the IJN Car Div:06:

You got rebased to Pearl? If you started in the Asiatic Fleet you should have been transferred to Freemantle.

[Armistead]

You got rebased to Pearl? If you started in the Asiatic Fleet you should have been transferred to Freemantle.

This.....

[Armistead]

Realistically you simply observe where most of the planes approach your location from, chances are the carrier would be in that direction


I have found that the ships are usually in the direction of the first group of planes that come your way.

[Admiral Halsey]

I have found that the ships are usually in the direction of the first group of planes that come your way.

I normally try to follow the planes back to the carriers. That's actually how I found the Midway group during my first RSRD play through.

[CapnScurvy]

As far as the carrier planes are concerned......yes, the first positive direction from which you can determine their approach, would be the direction of travel you should take to intercept a possible carrier. I've found most of the time, the carrier planes travel in pairs (zero's, vals, or kate's). But, you'll need to be on your toes to catch that first possible fly-over and make a note as to their heading. With time compression running, you'll find the planes will head back and forth, making it almost impossible to make a correct guess as to which direction the planes are coming from (unless you made that first notation).

I made a test mission once using a couple of Jap ships steaming from the North, one was a carrier. Some distance behind the Jap group, I added a couple of American ships, one being an American carrier. My plan was to check range to target using the periscopes with the Jap ships, then surface to use the TBT with the following Allied ships. My surprise came while watching the Jap group go by, Allied planes had spawned, promptly attacking the carrier. The planes sunk it before I could do much of my testing. No Jap planes had attacked the American force, leaving me to think that by my observance of the Jap group, this detection caused the American forces to mount the attack. I had not issued a message of finding the Jap force, the attack came all on its own. I know detection of your sub will trigger an automatic response from the Axis side in several different ways.....so will the Allied side.

One other point about carrier based planes. The stock v1.5 game has the Shokaku CV having the G4M Betty Bomber!? Most of us have corrected this issue with our mods, taking the twin engine bomber off the carrier's inventory.

[jldjs]

All of your suggestions are welcome and interesting but would someone please opine on the question about time! Is my game time, say 1300 hrs, the same as the missions time from the ME if it was 1300, or is my time an offset from my base time?

[Admiral Halsey]

All of your suggestions are welcome and interesting but would someone please opine on the question about time! Is my game time, say 1300 hrs, the same as the missions time from the ME if it was 1300, or is my time an offset from my base time?

From everything I know it should be your base time.

[jldjs]

From everything I know it should be your base time.

Thanks Admiral.

[Armistead]

I normally try to follow the planes back to the carriers. That's actually how I found the Midway group during my first RSRD play through.

Yes, and as I and Scurvy has stated, make sure you note the direction of the FIRST group that enters your spawn zone and then pay attention to other groups that come from that direction. This will give you an idea of a basic course, as if you just head in the direction of the first group, you may fall behind. What I do is mark the first group, then make marks from all other groups coming from that direction and use that as a basic course to try and get in front. If you don't notice and mark the first group, then you get planes coming and going and then you have to decide which direction.
Course, when I head that way, I watch for the big lag so I can check radar.

The problem of course is not to let planes spot you, so it's a lot of up and down and hoping you can come in contact. The bad news, if you're spotted, you may be dealing with hundreds of planes attacking you and lose any chance of catching the TF.

[jldjs]

Must my sub be in proximity to a spot near the waypoints, but more than 20 nm, for this Car Div to spawn? Or, based on the campaign mission, is the TF already there following it's waypoints and I just need to intersect it at the right time?

[Admiral Halsey]

Must my sub be in proximity to a spot near the waypoints, but more than 20 nm, for this Car Div to spawn? Or, based on the campaign mission, is the TF already there following it's waypoints and I just need to intersect it at the right time?

If your sub is within twenty miles of a spawning point the group won't spawn. If the TF is already spawned and steaming towards the battle the all you have to do is intercept it.

[jldjs]

I'm not familiar with the ME, so how can I find the spawning points?

[Armistead]

Must my sub be in proximity to a spot near the waypoints, but more than 20 nm, for this Car Div to spawn? Or, based on the campaign mission, is the TF already there following it's waypoints and I just need to intersect it at the right time?

There is one spawning point, the original one, that's the one you need to be away from. With RSRD most groups spawn near or in port. Other than that you need to be along the waypoint path.

[jldjs]

Thanks for that. I thought I had plotted the Car Div path as it rounded San Cristobal, allowed for a three hour time difference since my base shows PH, but I still haven't intersected that group. Gotta keep tryin!

[Admiral Halsey]

Thanks for that. I thought I had plotted the Car Div path as it rounded San Cristobal, allowed for a three hour time difference since my base shows PH, but I still haven't intersected that group. Gotta keep tryin!

If you haven't rebased to Pearl yet you should still be running on Surabaya time.

[Armistead]

Thanks for that. I thought I had plotted the Car Div path as it rounded San Cristobal, allowed for a three hour time difference since my base shows PH, but I still haven't intersected that group. Gotta keep tryin!

Not sure how you could've missed it. With RSRD, the group should come that way. Try about 35 NMs south from the center of San Cris...

[Admiral Halsey]

Not sure how you could've missed it. With RSRD, the group should come that way. Try about 35 NMs south from the center of San Cris...

I've found that until you get radar it's quite easy to miss even the largest TF. For every time I ambush the Midway force on it's way to the battle there is another 10 times I miss it.

[jldjs]

I'm no longer sure what time it is, but PH has the tilted anchor but I have'nt got there yet! I do not have radar, just 10nm passive sonar. I plotted the waypoints that I read from the ME and sat on that line from just below San Cristobal to its point west of Guadalcanal where the TF turned south early on May 6 to eventually launch first attack on Sims. I'll keep tryin', ain't gone home with a full load of fish if there's an IJN CV around.

[Admiral Halsey]

I'm no longer sure what time it is, but PH has the tilted anchor but I have'nt got there yet! I do not have radar, just 10nm passive sonar. I plotted the waypoints that I read from the ME and sat on that line from just below San Cristobal to its point west of Guadalcanal where the TF turned south early on May 6 to eventually launch first attack on Sims. I'll keep tryin', ain't gone home with a full load of fish if there's an IJN CV around.

So you have yet to dock at Pearl? If so then you should be on Surabaya time still.

[Armistead]

I'm no longer sure what time it is, but PH has the tilted anchor but I have'nt got there yet! I do not have radar, just 10nm passive sonar. I plotted the waypoints that I read from the ME and sat on that line from just below San Cristobal to its point west of Guadalcanal where the TF turned south early on May 6 to eventually launch first attack on Sims. I'll keep tryin', ain't gone home with a full load of fish if there's an IJN CV around.


Just be careful, seems when they turn south, the TF picks up speed to about 20 kts. If you can get there the day before the battle at San Cris and just wait. Don't sink the US carriers that come through there the day before...

[jldjs]

Well, after "sitting" on the coordinates where the Car Div turned San Cristobal for 24 hours on May 5th without encountering anything, I have left the area and the fate of this battle to Adm Fletcher and Fitch. I can do no more and do not feel derelict in my duty, just frustrated!
Yet I wonder if my sonar worked while being on the surface! Hmmm!

[Admiral Halsey]

Don't sink the US carriers that come through there the day before...

Ummm about that....

[Armistead]

Well, after "sitting" on the coordinates where the Car Div turned San Cristobal for 24 hours on May 5th without encountering anything, I have left the area and the fate of this battle to Adm Fletcher and Fitch. I can do no more and do not feel derelict in my duty, just frustrated!
Yet I wonder if my sonar worked while being on the surface! Hmmm!


Why not try to intercept the Port Moresby Invasion Group? It comes back to Rabaul, so just get there a day early, 6th would be fine and wait until it comes. Just sit in the middle of the strait at Rabaul.