Banning Trans Fats

[Bubblehead1980]

Normally, I am against government banning just about anything, but in the case of trans fats, I find myself okay with it.Anyone agree, disagree? I will admit my knowledge of this is limited, some reading on subject is in progress but I do tend to trust science in most cases, we know trans fats are terrible for us, likely a major factor in heart disease epidemic in our nation.This is where seemingly logical, practical, actions conflicts with principle, bit torn on the subject.

[Madox58]

I'm of the opinion I don't want anyone banning something for my own good.

We've seen to often how that leads to basic rights being taken away.
:nope:

We've also seen that once something is banned? A simple change in it's chemical make up bypasses the bans. With a usual bad out come. (Bath Salts come to mind)

If you are going to protect me by banning Trans fats?
I'd expect you'd want to protect me by makeing me wear a helmet when I ride my Triumph.

How about a ban on obese people eating junk food?
Say scales at all Fast food joints and if you get pinged you can't eat there?

[Ducimus]

Normally, I am against government banning just about anything, but in the case of trans fats, I find myself okay with it.Anyone agree, disagree?

Strongly disagree.

Since a picture is worth 1000 words.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/02/article-2153881-136BBF04000005DC-531_634x1159.jpg

I'm of the opinion I don't want anyone banning something for my own good.

We've seen to often how that leads to basic rights being taken away.
:nope:

We've also seen that once something is banned? A simple change in it's chemical make up bypasses the bans. With a usual bad out come. (Bath Salts come to mind)

If you are going to protect me by banning Trans fats?
I'd expect you'd want to protect me by makeing me wear a helmet when I ride my Triumph.

How about a ban on obese people eating junk food?
Say scales at all Fast food joints and if you get pinged you can't eat there?

This.


As an aside, If i turn into a fat fricking pig; It is my own damn fault for making poor choices. However at least the choice was mine to make. If trans fat is such a big public health issue, then I would agree to warning labels , or something that otherwise advises of the possible consequences of the decision i was about to make, but the decision should always be up to the individual to make. Kinda like tobacco I suppose.

This is suppose to be a free country. Where you can live your own life as you see fit for yourself.

edit:
Personal responsibility, it seems to be a novel concept these days. I'm kinda partial to it myself.

[Garion]

They tried it in 'American Dad'...

It didnae work.....:know:

Cheers

gary

[Nippelspanner]

Normally, I am against government banning just about anything, but in the case of trans fats, I find myself okay with it.Anyone agree, disagree? I will admit my knowledge of this is limited, some reading on subject is in progress but I do tend to trust science in most cases, we know trans fats are terrible for us, likely a major factor in heart disease epidemic in our nation.This is where seemingly logical, practical, actions conflicts with principle, bit torn on the subject.
I'd call it Darwin at it's best - do not ban that stuff.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Don't want trans-fats? Don't eat processed food. :yeah:

Buy fresh ingredients and cook them yourself, it may cost a little more but what cost is quality of life?

[Madox58]

I'd say have Mrs. Obama start a 'Put the Donut down' thing like Mrs. Reagan's 'Just say No' joke.
:har:

I also find it strange You of all people would kind of agree with anything like this!
Is this some kind of test?

[Jimbuna]

Eat more curry :O:

[kranz]

Why would anyone want to pester obese transsexuals?
They are people too:nope:

[CaptainMattJ.]

But do you not set a line on what should and shouldnt be banned? Drugs are banned. Fireworks are banned in many places.

So who decides where the line is drawn?

[Armistead]

Ban trans fat, what will poor people eat?

[Madox58]

Ban trans fat, what will poor people eat?
Soylent Green. What else?
That's why you can't ban trans fats! We're feeding future foods!
:D

[Madox58]

Drugs are banned.
I think if one has enuff money? Drugs ain't banned just 'regulated'.
Most things I see about drugs? I'd rather suffer the problem not the cure!

[Armistead]

Soylent Green. What else?
That's why you can't ban trans fats! We're feeding future foods!
:D

My wife and I went to Walmart to get a few things today. Checking out the lady in front of me had two carts full of groceries...steaks, ice cream, chips, several bottles of soda, junk food galore.....and paid with it with a food stamp card....like $310.....

Didn't know they gave out that much........eats better than we do and we use coupons...

[nikimcbee]

No.

Everything you need to know is here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs

Want a hot apple pie?

My favorite part of this whole documentary is the part about lawyers (@25 min).

[Skybird]

I had to realise that every time government does something like this, it is a door opener for even more of the same to follow. And that is why I am now totally opposing such steps.

However, I like mandatory health insurance gone, and becoming voluntary. Where you chose it voluntarily, I want options for people to increaser their tariffs to cover health consequences they are responsible for all themselves (smoking, eating tons of sugar and drinking tons of soft drinks, etc) - I do not see why everybody should obligatorily pay for individuals' lack of information, their irresponsibility, or their stupid behavior. You want an insurance for fallout resulting from your own stupidity? That should cost you accordingly then. The more stupid you act, the more it shall cost you. where that is too difficult to judge or too complicated in bureaucratic processes, there shall be no insurrance option at all. That will make people either think - or die early before they become a burden by own fault for all other payers.

But its the age of rampant socialism and everybody living with both his hands in other people's pockets. Go figure.

[Madox58]

I'm still wondering if Bubbles is doing some test here.
:hmmm:

It's not like him to agree to any ban of anything.

[Sailor Steve]

I had to realise that every time government does something like this, it is a door opener for even more of the same to follow. And that is why I am now totally opposing such steps.
I'm kind of up in the air about it, but if there is one 'best' argument against it, that is it.

[Oberon]

I'm still wondering if Bubbles is doing some test here.
:hmmm:

It's not like him to agree to any ban of anything.

Between that and his disagreement with the other GOPs over minimum wage increases...

http://brattleblog.brattlefilm.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/invasBodySnatchersDVDcap4.jpg

[TorpX]

I had to realise that every time government does something like this, it is a door opener for even more of the same to follow. And that is why I am now totally opposing such steps.


Agree completely.

Every restriction is a stepping stone to a more onerous one. These people are never satisfied.

[Bubblehead1980]

I'm still wondering if Bubbles is doing some test here.
:hmmm:

It's not like him to agree to any ban of anything.

Lol no test here.Like I said, I am inclined to be against the government banning anything but when the food industry puts something in popular brands they know is harmful, even in moderation as has been claimed, come on. I am honestly torn on this one and as said am in process of researching this more thoroughly but it is like global warming debate for me.I believe yes, man's activity has caused damage and does affect our environment but to the degree some like Al Gore claim? I don't think so. Esp given climate gate etc Trans fats bad? Likely, are they are bad as have been claimed? Possibly, but have to do some research first.However, if they are as bad as claim, why now simply tell food industry, can not use this crap? Does anyone lose liberty? No precedent is set, there are already regulations that prevent other things from being used that are harmful.Liberty lost that can not use brain or spinal material of a cow due to threat of mad cow disease? No.

The US does have an epidemic of heart disease, many factors but trans fats which have been widespread but are on the decline due to the awareness(market taking care of it in a sense) . Like I said, it's logic and sense and principle conflicting a bit here, trying to reconcile the two.

[Bubblehead1980]

Between that and his disagreement with the other GOPs over minimum wage increases...

http://brattleblog.brattlefilm.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/invasBodySnatchersDVDcap4.jpg


Well, have tried to tell my detractors on here for a long time, contrary to what they claim, I am not a lock step GOP mouthpiece. One issue where GOP and conservatives are very wrong is the minimum wage issue.They claim any increase will hurt and are wrong , some mean well, some are lying and know it. Like I have said, want to end the welfare state? Then make sure private sector is providing jobs with living wages so welfare state is minimal because most people, esp those added to the rolls in last few years do not want to be there, they are there because they have no options, they lost their "real" jobs and were not able to find an equivalent or better one due to the obama economy, so they end up in jobs that pay low wages, often time minimum wage, and on the dole to supplement their income.This just makes sense and would be such an easy issue to beat the Dems with, but some ass backwards thinking on the subject is entrenched in conservative political circles.Trust me, I have been verbally gang banged by fellow conservatives over it, but their tired old position on the subject just does not mesh with the modern economy and situation of the average worker.

[Skybird]

I'm kind of up in the air about it, but if there is one 'best' argument against it, that is it.
Believe it or not, but you have some role in making me think like that. Not the decisive role, but still: our collisions helped it. :up:

[Skybird]

Agree completely.

Every restriction is a stepping stone to a more onerous one. These people are never satisfied.

In Germany, they now discuss tax raises on products containing fat, salt, sugar, alcohol. They claim health reasons. The truth is: they need to generate additional tax prey for the state criminals - to pay for the additional 50 billion the great coalition's spending frenzy will cost.

[Nippelspanner]

In Germany, they now discuss tax raises on products containing fat, salt, sugar, alcohol. They claim health reasons. The truth is: they need to generate additional tax prey for the state criminals - to pay for the additional 50 billion the great coalition's spending frenzy will cost.
Pf, Skybird! Sei nicht so Paranoid! They just care about our health and want our best...
Just like they want to start to censor the crap out of the internet - cause the internet is Neuland for all of us, right? :D
That one made my... year, really.

[AVGWarhawk]

There are more pressing things for the local, state and Federal gov't work on than trans fats and 32 oz soft drinks. When does the nonsense stop?

[Ducimus]

I'd say have Mrs. Obama start a 'Put the Donut down' thing like Mrs. Reagan's 'Just say No' joke.
:har:

I also find it strange You of all people would kind of agree with anything like this!
Is this some kind of test?


Speaking of donuts, a 2 minute video for bubblehead:
GET THE GOVERNMENT OFF MY DONUTS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZUtFMn8klo)

[Bubblehead1980]

There are more pressing things for the local, state and Federal gov't work on than trans fats and 32 oz soft drinks. When does the nonsense stop?


Soft drinsk? Yes Trans fat? I don't know, while some companies and brands are going trans fat free(well they can contain a tiny amount and still be labeled trans fat free) not enough are because while demand is growing and issue is becoming well known, it's not happening fast enough.I am in process of researching this but more I learn, more I am for getting rid of them. One thing if fried chicken has it, we don't have to eat fried chicken every day but common items such as supposedly healthy fresh sliced deli turkey, which I pay extra for to avoid various things like nitrates etc, turns out to have 5 grams of trans fat, I was floored. Bottom line, the majority of food industry will continue to use this crap because of the cost etc of finding other non harmful things to replace trans fats.This could explain the heart disease epidemic in the US, trans fats have been in just about everything and are still in most.Some research suggest even small amounts are dangerous.

Now, my concern is if okay this, will this lead to what skybird mentioned, the salt tax, sugar tax and other unreasonably stupid things.Small amounts occur naturally and that is fine, but the large amounts in various foods that are added, needs to stop. Do we wait 30 years for the food industry to respond, let heart disease epidemic grow despite awareness or simply use the FDA to have food industry phase them out? I am sure they can find a a non harmful substitute but they won't until given the shove by the consumer or the government.Talk about HC costs rising? Well this is part of that.We have to start looking to treat the disease, not the symptoms. I hate to admit it, but more I look into this, more I am for having trans fats banned.Goes against my principles and usual thinking, but this just seems to be common sense because they are all in the food supply, options to have no trans fats are limited.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes Bubble. 32 oz soft drinks. A pet project for the mayor of NYC. :yep:

[Oberon]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/32360_306675332765945_2125385943_n.jpg

[Armistead]

It's a tough subject, because it's related to health care. They say the next big economic crisis will be medical cost due to mass obesity. The tax payers will pay for much of this, so where do we draw lines...?

[Wolferz]

I don't need a Nanny or a big brother or an uncle Sam to tell me how to live MY life. They try to say it's for your own good but, is it?

I blame it all on companies like Monsanto and Con Agra who push their high fructose corn syrup, which has been proven to make you stupid if you consume too much of it. The latest campaign video about it touts only a 5% difference between corn sugars and Cane sugars. It's what's in that 5% that worries me.

Don't even get me started on artificial sweeteners.

I have endured this long. What's a few extra days in the grand scheme?:hmmm:

The bleeding hearts and the goody two shoes need to learn to butt out!

For example: Some drunk passes out with a cigarette burning in his fingers and he drops it in a garbage can that catches fire and burns down the house. Killing his entire family.
The bleeding hearts jumped on that event with both feet and blamed the cigarette, for killing innocent children. Not the alcohol that put daddy to sleep.They always use the kids as their motivator. Pathetic in my book. That's nature cleaning the gene pool.
They lobbied to have cigarettes made safer (like there could ever be such a thing) So, the tobacco companies were forced to develop a fire safe cigarette. They did so by adding rings of extra paper in the rolling papers to make the cigarette go out.
All well and good in the eyes of Uncle Sam because now a cigarette can't be used as a time fuse on an explosive bundle. For all of us smokers, we get smokes that won't burn properly. Going out before burning half way, unless you're sucking on it constantly. Then there's the adhesive(carpet glue) used to add the extra layer of material. Like the tobacco isn't bad enough for you.:hmmm:
All thanks to the bleeding heart scumbags who can't mind their own damned business! Maybe these particular lobbyists were backed by the Bic lighter and Diamond match companies. Yes? No?

[Madox58]

Well maybe they should start by outlawing personal responsibility.
Once that is done then anyone makeing, promoting, or selling anything that hurts us in anyway gets to shoulder the blame.

[Wolferz]

Ah, good old blame. The finger pointing game.

Pity that those who want to point the finger never notice the other three pointing back at them.:nope:

[Bubblehead1980]

Yes Bubble. 32 oz soft drinks. A pet project for the mayor of NYC. :yep:


Well Bloomturd is an idiot, soda is an option, can choose to drink it or not.Trans fats are ADDED into so many things, people have very limited options.From what I am reading, it's tantamount to having poison in food supply, just it's kills over long period of time.Domr trans fats occur naturally in small amounts but the food industry ADDS them in large amounts to various foods, some junk yes, but some otherwise healty foods that are part of a balanced diet, but they should not be there.This could explain why people who eat right, work out, no genetic history of heart trouble etc are still getting heart disease.This could explain explosion of other diseases in this country in last century.Sure, other reasons but trans fats being in the diet for so many years, explains a lot.

Like I said, it's conflict for me but this is not just junk food etc they adding this to supposedly healthy turkey as I mentioned.

[Ducimus]

Junk food is optional too. You may as well be like that lady some years back, who tried to sue McDonalds for making her fat. Nobody held a gun to her head and made her eat there, she ate there on her own accord.

[Aktungbby]

I'm of the opinion I don't want anyone banning something for my own good.
C'mon! the government banned saccharin in 1969 and my dad moved us to sunny CA; I discovered :subsim: and lived happily everafter and actually ended up guarding the FDA too!:yeah:
Strongly disagree.
As an aside, If i turn into a fat fricking pig; It is my own damn fault for making poor choices.This is suppose to be a free country. Where you can live your own life as you see fit for yourself.Personal responsibility, it seems to be a novel concept these days. I'm kinda partial to it myself.
Hail Ducimus you old fashioned republican, put on a toga; I'll squeeze into mine; we'll meet in the forum; bring daggers!:up:

favorite part of this whole documentary is the part about lawyers (@25 min). "Lets kill all the lawyers"( Shakespeares Richard III act IV):up:

I'm kind of up in the air about it, but if there is one 'best' argument against it, that is it.
Some camels are two humped:O:
Believe it or not, but you have some role in making me think like that. Not the decisive role, but still: our collisions helped it. :up: The eternal question: "to collide or to collude"!:hmmm:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/32360_306675332765945_2125385943_n.jpg
THAT IS ARMISTEAD leading Pickett's Charge at Gettysburg!:salute:
It's a tough subject, so where do we draw lines...? Up yonder at the 'copse of trees'? The ultimate high water mark of the Salt pork fed Confederacy!:haha:

[Ducimus]

It occurs to me, the reason we have cardiac and weight issues in this country is because of the way people choose to live. Too many people hork down a bunch of fast food garbage, and then sit on their asses playing MMO's, Xbox, or watching crap like American Idol, and let themselves go.

There are many sedentary people in our society these days. We have way more diversions then we did in the past. Transfat/fatty foods have been around for a long time now (Lard anyone?) , only in recent decades is obesity a larger problem; that should tell you something.

This commercial is funny, but true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UntdGA7gH3Q

[Madox58]

:hmmm:
I don't think there's an obesity problem in Ethiopia like in the U.S. is there?
Coincedence?
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000389405/polls_Home_Alone_1427_197417_answer_3_xlarge.png

[Wolferz]

It occurs to me, the reason we have cardiac and weight issues in this country is because of the way people choose to live. Too many people hork down a bunch of fast food garbage, and then sit on their asses playing MMO's, Xbox, or watching crap like American Idol, and let themselves go.

There are many sedentary people in our society these days. We have way more diversions then we did in the past. Transfat/fatty foods have been around for a long time now (Lard anyone?) , only in recent decades is obesity a larger problem; that should tell you something.

This commercial is funny, but true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UntdGA7gH3Q

Was that Eric Cartman?


BEEFCAKE!!!:haha:

[Bubblehead1980]

It occurs to me, the reason we have cardiac and weight issues in this country is because of the way people choose to live. Too many people hork down a bunch of fast food garbage, and then sit on their asses playing MMO's, Xbox, or watching crap like American Idol, and let themselves go.

There are many sedentary people in our society these days. We have way more diversions then we did in the past. Transfat/fatty foods have been around for a long time now (Lard anyone?) , only in recent decades is obesity a larger problem; that should tell you something.

This commercial is funny, but true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UntdGA7gH3Q


I agree, lifestyle is part of it BUT from what I am reading, trans fats can be linked to the huge rise in heart disease of other illnesses such as diabetes, alzheimers, etc since they became common in the food supply around the 20's or so. For me, it's one thing if it is in a doughnut, ice cream, other foods not meant to be consumed as part of regular diet but people have freedom to do so if they wish, but if it is added to things such as the supposedly healthy turkey I mentioned and other foods that are part of a balanced diety.That is like inviting someone to a fixed poker game and then asking why they can not win, it's wrong.


My principles say no, government has no business in this but then when think about it, do they have no business ensuring sanitary conditions in meant packing plants etc? I would argue it's one of the few roles government does have.I like knowing I can reasonably assume it is safe to eat a steak. This came about because the private sector failed to ensure this.I love the private sector but there are times it, as a whole, acts like a teenager and as we know, teenagers, well most, need limits set or they will do what they can get away with.Actually, that is human nature, even grown ups do it, which is why we have a constitution that was meant to keep the people holding the power in line.

[Skybird]

Why do people eat so much crap food? Lacking education about it (obesity heavily correlates with - low - social class), and industry lobbyists and advertisements tolerated to propagate lies about crap food, and picking up subsidies for continuing to produce crap food. Also, people think that the insurance pays for their treatment if they behave stupid. Also, crap food is cheaper than healthy food. That's another reason why poverty correlates with obesity. Cheap low quality meat for example. In historic times, meat was luxury, served on every fourth sunday only or so. Today, buying cheap meat products is is the comfortable option to go if you want to save money. Buyng vegetables and ingredients costs you more. Not to mentioin that many people do not learn to cook or do not have the time or interest to do so. And so they pick up a pack of crap ready to eat.

Me, I prefer preparing my crap by hand, all by myself. That way I know that I'm eating quality crap. :D

[Bubblehead1980]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/32360_306675332765945_2125385943_n.jpg

Yes, perhaps the GOP 'civil war" will be a good thing in long run, because if we ever want to dominate politics again, we must not change so much as adopt a more sensible set of policies along with adhering to our principles.NeoCons and RINO's nearly destroyed the party, could not tell much different between them and the Dems.The old guard is trying to hold on to power but it's slipping away.

The Democrats should have a inner party civil war as well, perhaps after they lose big due to obamacare next year, the sane voices drowned out by all the marxists etc will regain some power, be the real Democratic party again.

[Oberon]

Yes, perhaps the GOP 'civil war" will be a good thing in long run, because if we ever want to dominate politics again, we must not change so much as adopt a more sensible set of policies along with adhering to our principles.NeoCons and RINO's nearly destroyed the party, could not tell much different between them and the Dems.The old guard is trying to hold on to power but it's slipping away.

The Democrats should have a inner party civil war as well, perhaps after they lose big due to obamacare next year, the sane voices drowned out by all the marxists etc will regain some power, be the real Democratic party again.

Here's what makes me scratch my chin a bit though...

You support minimum wage increases and a ban on trans-fats, amongst other differing lines from the GOP manifesto...
Would not, therefore, some more conservative Republicans, those who are against both minimum wage increases and bans on, well, anything..would they not call you a RINO? :hmmm:

Food for thought...pardon the pun...

[Armistead]

Yes, perhaps the GOP 'civil war" will be a good thing in long run, because if we ever want to dominate politics again, we must not change so much as adopt a more sensible set of policies along with adhering to our principles.NeoCons and RINO's nearly destroyed the party, could not tell much different between them and the Dems.The old guard is trying to hold on to power but it's slipping away.

The Democrats should have a inner party civil war as well, perhaps after they lose big due to obamacare next year, the sane voices drowned out by all the marxists etc will regain some power, be the real Democratic party again.

If the Tea Party is redefining the GOP then it's doomed. I do see a generation that believes in conservative principles, but they're very socially liberal. The GOP wants govt out of things {they say} but at the same time wants to shove their personal, social and religious beliefs down others throats.

The GOP will keep congressional seats, but if they want the presidency they can't run the old school or the Tea Party religious nut. Problem is if they run a moderate like Christy that has a chance, will probably lose due to the religious right. The Dems can run a moderate with much more success.

If they GOP can't win the next election....time for a new socially liberal fiscally conservative party to arise...

[Bubblehead1980]

Here's what makes me scratch my chin a bit though...

You support minimum wage increases and a ban on trans-fats, amongst other differing lines from the GOP manifesto...
Would not, therefore, some more conservative Republicans, those who are against both minimum wage increases and bans on, well, anything..would they not call you a RINO? :hmmm:

Food for thought...pardon the pun...


Some would, yes, some have since I do not agree with the staunch pro life stance many take, I believe in liberty, part of liberty is choice, especially on something such as pregnancy, so am pro choice on those grounds.I believe in the constitution, separation of church and state.Those who would call me a RINO would be in error as I am a conservative.I am for no income tax aka repeal of 16th amendment, starving the beast, return to gold standard, requiring by constitutional amendment a budget is passed into law each year, no exceptions.Behavior like that of the Democratic Senate would be legally considered criminal, purposely not passing a budget.Immigration laws would be strictly enforced with secure borders and deportations.Dismantling the fed, non imperial foreign policy, respect for the constitution, only appoint judges who have records of adhering to and respecting the text of the constitution, not opinions they dreamed up from their "living constitution" garbage.Dismantling of the police state and military industrial complex. I simply hold a more rational, up to date thought of certain issues such as minimum wage as a way to reduce welfare.Like I said, want to reduce the welfare state to the bare minimum safety net? Make sure private sector jobs paying living wages are there and many on the dole now, won't have to be.Private sector refuses to do on it's own, so a minimum wage adjustments for inflation(which would not exist mostly with the fed gone) could be an answer.Of course, would have to pull off a balancing act.

Making sure people are not being paid what is tantamount to slave wages is conservative, it's about liberty.I wish the private sector would do these things on it's own, sometimes it does, but often it does not, which is why government types even get to step in.


The Neo Cons are big spenders who are just a little less liberal than Dems on social matters and are for a police state, imperialistic foreign policy.RINO/Neocons 's like John McShame are the problem.

I have had a few idiots call me a RINO because I am not a jesus freak and I see sensible things like a living wage and not allowing what is tantamount to poison being in the food, but they mean to serve a conservative end, they have nothing else to go on and usually get put in their place pretty quick.

[Oberon]

Some would, yes, some have since I do not agree with the staunch pro life stance many take, I believe in liberty, part of liberty is choice, especially on something such as pregnancy, so am pro choice on those grounds.I believe in the constitution, separation of church and state.Those who would call me a RINO would be in error as I am a conservative.I am for no income tax aka repeal of 16th amendment, starving the beast, return to gold standard, requiring by constitutional amendment a budget is passed into law each year, no exceptions.Behavior like that of the Democratic Senate would be legally considered criminal, purposely not passing a budget.Immigration laws would be strictly enforced with secure borders and deportations.Dismantling the fed, non imperial foreign policy, respect for the constitution, only appoint judges who have records of adhering to and respecting the text of the constitution, not opinions they dreamed up from their "living constitution" garbage.Dismantling of the police state and military industrial complex. I simply hold a more rational, up to date thought of certain issues such as minimum wage as a way to reduce welfare.Like I said, want to reduce the welfare state to the bare minimum safety net? Make sure private sector jobs paying living wages are there and many on the dole now, won't have to be.Private sector refuses to do on it's own, so a minimum wage adjustments for inflation(which would not exist mostly with the fed gone) could be an answer.Of course, would have to pull off a balancing act.

Making sure people are not being paid what is tantamount to slave wages is conservative, it's about liberty.I wish the private sector would do these things on it's own, sometimes it does, but often it does not, which is why government types even get to step in.


The Neo Cons are big spenders who are just a little less liberal than Dems on social matters and are for a police state, imperialistic foreign policy.RINO/Neocons 's like John McShame are the problem.

I have had a few idiots call me a RINO because I am not a jesus freak and I see sensible things like a living wage and not allowing what is tantamount to poison being in the food, but they mean to serve a conservative end, they have nothing else to go on and usually get put in their place pretty quick.

So, basically, you are centralist in regards to GOP policy. Not far enough to the right to be a 'Jesus freak' but not far enough to the left to be a Neo-Con.
You see the Neo-Cons as being a big threat to the GOP, but what about the 'Jesus-freak' side of things?

[Ducimus]

If the Tea Party is redefining the GOP then it's doomed. I do see a generation that believes in conservative principles, but they're very socially liberal. The GOP wants govt out of things {they say} but at the same time wants to shove their personal, social and religious beliefs down others throats.

The GOP will keep congressional seats, but if they want the presidency they can't run the old school or the Tea Party religious nut. Problem is if they run a moderate like Christy that has a chance, will probably lose due to the religious right. The Dems can run a moderate with much more success.

If they GOP can't win the next election....time for a new socially liberal fiscally conservative party to arise...

Some of the things you describe there, are some of the reasons why I find myself drawn to the Libertarian camp.

[Sailor Steve]

Some would, yes...usually get put in their place pretty quick.
Well said. I don't agree with all of your opinions, but still well said.

[Tribesman]

I don't need a Nanny or a big brother or an uncle Sam to tell me how to live MY life. They try to say it's for your own good but, is it?

No one is telling you that you can't eat crap, you are free to add as much rubbish to your own food as you wish.
The proposal is so that other people cannot add crap to your food.
Think of it in the same the same way as water, there is nothing stopping you from getting a glass of water running it through a lead pipe, adding some diesel, pesticide and human excrement then drinking it.
However if you want to supply water to others for consumption then the nanny state says you can't put that crap in it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well Bloomturd is an idiot, soda is an option, can choose to drink it or not.Trans fats are ADDED into so many things, people have very limited options.From what I am reading, it's tantamount to having poison in food supply, just it's kills over long period of time.Domr trans fats occur naturally in small amounts but the food industry ADDS them in large amounts to various foods, some junk yes, but some otherwise healty foods that are part of a balanced diet, but they should not be there.This could explain why people who eat right, work out, no genetic history of heart trouble etc are still getting heart disease.This could explain explosion of other diseases in this country in last century.Sure, other reasons but trans fats being in the diet for so many years, explains a lot.

Like I said, it's conflict for me but this is not just junk food etc they adding this to supposedly healthy turkey as I mentioned.

Just as soda and choosing to drink or not can also be said of what food you choose to eat. My daughter is a vegetarian. No trans fats lettuce! :up: You are what you eat. This has been said for decades.

No worries. Michele Obama will have a mandated menu for all coming to the restaurants near you! :haha:

[Aktungbby]

Michele Obama will have a mandated menu for all coming to the restaurants near you! :haha:
Not at a SAMBOS! :O:

[Buddahaid]

Just as soda and choosing to drink or not can also be said of what food you choose to eat. My daughter is a vegetarian. No trans fats lettuce! :up: You are what you eat. This has been said for decades.

No worries. Michele Obama will have a mandated menu for all coming to the restaurants near you! :haha:

Trans fat is vegan as it's made with soy beans.

[AVGWarhawk]

Trans fat is vegan as it's made with soy beans.

You do not need to eat soy products either. My daughter does not much care for soy. Or tofu for that matter.

[Bubblehead1980]

No one is telling you that you can't eat crap, you are free to add as much rubbish to your own food as you wish.
The proposal is so that other people cannot add crap to your food.
Think of it in the same the same way as water, there is nothing stopping you from getting a glass of water running it through a lead pipe, adding some diesel, pesticide and human excrement then drinking it.
However if you want to supply water to others for consumption then the nanny state says you can't put that crap in it.


We agree on something finally, what has this world come to ? lol

[AVGWarhawk]

No one is telling you that you can't eat crap, you are free to add as much rubbish to your own food as you wish.
The proposal is so that other people cannot add crap to your food.
Think of it in the same the same way as water, there is nothing stopping you from getting a glass of water running it through a lead pipe, adding some diesel, pesticide and human excrement then drinking it.
However if you want to supply water to others for consumption then the nanny state says you can't put that crap in it.


Hmmmm...the good folks that built Love Canal did not get the memo. :o

[Oberon]

We agree on something finally, what has this world come to ? lol

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/3807459/world-implodes-o.gif

[Tribesman]

Hmmmm...the good folks that built Love Canal did not get the memo. :o
The good folks who filled the canal didn't get the memo because permission was granted 6 years before the legislation passed.

[Wolferz]

No one is telling you that you can't eat crap, you are free to add as much rubbish to your own food as you wish.
The proposal is so that other people cannot add crap to your food.
Think of it in the same the same way as water, there is nothing stopping you from getting a glass of water running it through a lead pipe, adding some diesel, pesticide and human excrement then drinking it.
However if you want to supply water to others for consumption then the nanny state says you can't put that crap in it.

Why would I want to add rubbish to my food and water?:confused:

The Nanny state can tell product producers anything they want. Doesn't matter to me. If they wish to remove trans fat from factory prepared food, so be it. I can go back to frying up a rasher of bacon and saving the grease to cook with. Scrambled eggs are especially good fried in bacon grease.:up:
I won't be buying any of those tasteless factory prepared foods. That's the only consequence of a forced removal of trans fats. Most of the products sold in stores these days carry the "reduced fat" label. Like it's going to make any difference in your longevity. Your biomechanical side is still going to quit one day.:dead:
I'm more concerned with possible implications in the future... like when they decide that we shouldn't smoke cigarettes or drink beer and other spirits because they're bad for us too. They make the government mucho deniro so, those items will never be outlawed for consumption.

Why worry?:haha:

[AVGWarhawk]

Scrambled eggs are especially good fried in bacon grease.


Yes sa! :yep:

[Ducimus]

http://eatlovetravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Emeril-Lagasse.jpg

Too obscure?

[Bubblehead1980]

So, basically, you are centralist in regards to GOP policy. Not far enough to the right to be a 'Jesus freak' but not far enough to the left to be a Neo-Con.
You see the Neo-Cons as being a big threat to the GOP, but what about the 'Jesus-freak' side of things?


I would reject the centralist label, I am a conservative. Somehow the jesus freaks hijacked the conservative movement few years enough to be permanently associated with it.People are quite shocked when I , as an Atheist, am a conservative.While I use the term jesus freaks, I value them as part of the party and they are less of a threat then the Neo-Cons.Neo-Cons are liberals, and just as dangerous as liberals.The religious sect hold some out there views on abortion for instance but overall, their views are pro constitution and conservative.The are for limited government etc They serve the cause much more than any neocon or RINO.The problem they present is when they go "jesus freak" on TV, they alienate a lot of voters who think these people seek theocracy.They need to learn to adopt a more friendly appeal. Ted Cruz has a great position on Gay marriage, it is the one have held all along.While I believe marriage is a man and a woman, it is a state issue and should be up to the states, let their laws reflect their values.The debate needs to be had in those terms, get people to understand that marriage is not a right, but a legal privilege granted by each state.There is the religious side of that and it's up to said religions to grant marriage in their churches etc. Honestly, that is a rational, constitutional argument that can be made without making GOP sound like anti-gay party.May still lose gay vote overall, because so many are militant but would win some over and many of their supporters.Abortion, can be against it, but make it clear do not appear to take away a woman';s right, we are the party of individual liberty and rule of law.

This is part of the "civil war" going on in the party, I do believe we will reconcile and rebrand enough to win elections, hopefully in time to win 2016.2014 is looking good due to the flop of obamacare and his continued dishonesty etc, it ours to lose.2016 against Hillary is winnable and not just with Christie, who is not quite a RINO but what I will call a pseudo.Personally, I like his style but he holds the police state mentality, he was a prosecutor after all.In order to undo the police state which began construction under Bush and has been nearly completed under obama, we need a Ted Cruz or Rand Paul type, who sees it as imperative to rain in the NSA, FBI etc.

[Armistead]

The GOP and the Dem have been terrible for the economy. The GOP still believes in trickle down in a global economy, ain't gonna work. The middle class is being destroyed, the Dems answer is to support all the poor with mass social programs, the GOP is let em fend for themselves....the Dems win.

[TarJak]

The level of trans fats in your bacon grease is very low. The naturally occurring trans fats in meats and dairy products are not the problem or the target. They are after the artificial vegetable oil based trans fats that are introduced to extend shelf lives of products. Nom all the bacon fat you like ans you're still not going to have as much impact on your cholesterol as a few doughnuts made from almost pure trans fat.

I'm with you on the flavour of eggs cooking in bacon grease. Everything is better with bacon.

[desertstriker]

I'm with you on the flavour of eggs cooking in bacon grease. Everything is better with bacon.
you ever deep fry pancakes in bacon grease absolutly wonderful to eat.

[Betonov]

bacon grease ??? :hmmm:

There's an idea worth trying. So what do you do. Just put bacon on low heat until the fat becomes liquid and then turn on the heat ??

[desertstriker]

nope I cook the bacon like normal and then when I am done with the bacon I make some pancake batter and pour the batter into the pan and while the pancakes cook I eat my bacon growling like a dog to any that come near:haha:

[Garion]

Deep Fried mars bars in batter.. MMmMmmMmmM....

erm... barf :woot:

Cheers

Gary

[Ducimus]

http://thisiswhyyourefat.com/

:haha:

[Madox58]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5824421120/hF25CD14E/

[AVGWarhawk]

you ever deep fry pancakes in bacon grease absolutly wonderful to eat.

Never tried it. I have fried eggs in the bacon grease. Usually I make suet cakes for the birds. They love it in the winter. Calories to burn. Not much calories in bird seed.

http://unusualfinds.com/images/How-to-Make-Bird-Suet-Cakes.jpg

[Madox58]

:o
Looks like good bait for the Air Guns!
:D

[AVGWarhawk]

:o
Looks like good bait for the Air Guns!
:D

Good bait for birds of winter in the eastern deciduous woodlands region. :D

[Madox58]

I only shoot at the invasive types.
A good scope and studying the Birds before I take a shot is important.
:D

[Betonov]

Never tried it. I have fried eggs in the bacon grease. Usually I make suet cakes for the birds. They love it in the winter. Calories to burn. Not much calories in bird seed.




Recipee please. We also feed birds during winter and that looks very practical

[Jimbuna]

Recipee please. We also feed birds during winter and that looks very practical

DITTO

[AVGWarhawk]

Recipee please. We also feed birds during winter and that looks very practical

DITTO


Two parts. You use the fat from sausage or bacon. Pour liquefied grease in a container that can handle the heat. I just use plastic Tupperware bowl. Pour in the seed to the same level as the oil. Let sit to cool and solidify. I usually put the mixture in the refrigerator. I use a suet holder or just sit on the feeder. The fat provides calories for the birds. Seed they like but an abundance is needed to fulfill the caloric intake they need during the winter. It's cold and no fat bugs to eat. Uses a lot of energy to keep warm.

Best part, you do not dump the oil in your drain that can cause blockage over time. Much like our arteries we dump the bacon into. :o

[Tribesman]

Two parts.
Optional part three.
Put string in the mould so you can hang them up outside.

[August]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/32360_306675332765945_2125385943_n.jpg

Still butt hurt over Yorktown I see. :rotfl2:

[Jimbuna]

Two parts. You use the fat from sausage or bacon. Pour liquefied grease in a container that can handle the heat. I just use plastic Tupperware bowl. Pour in the seed to the same level as the oil. Let sit to cool and solidify. I usually put the mixture in the refrigerator. I use a suet holder or just sit on the feeder. The fat provides calories for the birds. Seed they like but an abundance is needed to fulfill the caloric intake they need during the winter. It's cold and no fat bugs to eat. Uses a lot of energy to keep warm.

Best part, you do not dump the oil in your drain that can cause blockage over time. Much like our arteries we dump the bacon into. :o

Cheers Chris :up:

[Oberon]

Still butt hurt over Yorktown I see. :rotfl2:

Eh, we got to set fire to the White House thirty years later, so it's not so bad. :up:

[Betonov]

Ah, nice. Thanks :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

Optional part three.
Put string in the mould so you can hang them up outside.

Good idea as well. :up: The indigenous birds to my area like the suet blocks.

[Oberon]

Ours love suet blocks too, it's recommended not to use vegetable oil though since it can cause problems with their feathers.

[AVGWarhawk]

Ours love suet blocks too, it's recommended not to use vegetable oil though since it can cause problems with their feathers.

I have only used bacon grease. Does vegetable oil solidify? :hmmm:

[Armistead]

I have only used bacon grease. Does vegetable oil solidify? :hmmm:

Don't worry about the fat AVG, I think you still look great in a thong....

[AVGWarhawk]

Don't worry about the fat AVG, I think you still look great in a thong....

Never saw the string......

:haha:

[Oberon]

I have only used bacon grease. Does vegetable oil solidify? :hmmm:

Unsure, never tried it, but it's one of the advisories on the RSPBs site apparently, for people who make their own blocks. I imagine it does eventually, but would probably take a lot longer than bacon grease does.

[AVGWarhawk]

Unsure, never tried it, but it's one of the advisories on the RSPBs site apparently, for people who make their own blocks. I imagine it does eventually, but would probably take a lot longer than bacon grease does.

I guess it does. I always seen my mom use bacon grease and that is what I have used. Never really thought about other greases to use. Thanks for the heads up! :up:

[Madox58]

Vegetable oil won't solidify unless it's hydrogenated like Crisco.

[Aktungbby]

Eh, we got to set fire to the White House thirty years later, so it's not so bad. :up:
Could ya do it again please!?
Ours love suet blocks too, it's recommended not to use vegetable oil though since it can cause problems with their feathers.
"a cardinal rule my little chickadee"-W.C Fields

[TarJak]

Vegetable oil won't solidify unless it's hydrogenated like Crisco.

And therefore full of trans fats.

[Madox58]

And therefore full of trans fats.
What does that have to do with hanging bird feeder things?
We want them fat so they are easier to shoot!
:haha:
:o
OH! You mean all those fat Guys hanging around my feeders.
:03:

[TarJak]

What does that have to do with hanging bird feeder things?
We want them fat so they are easier to shoot!
:haha:
:o
OH! You mean all those fat Guys hanging around my feeders.
:03:

No its all about birds with high cholesterol dying from strokes all over Ohio.

http://media2.newsnet5.com//photo/2013/01/04/dead-birds-bentleyville_20130104190151_640_480.JPG

:O: