Chinese nuke map of Western US

[nikimcbee]

http://media.washtimes.com/media/image/2013/10/31/10312013_china-nuke-strike8201_s640x430.jpg?eb194a8121619d8dffb15b5732 31300b66dc3661 (http://www.washingtontimes.com/multimedia/enlarge/image/10312013_china-nuke-strike8201jpg/?iframe=true&width=830&height=800)


Wow, this is so 1980s. When I first saw the story, I said "meh, get in line." Another country that wants to nuke us.
Then I looked at the map, and there is nothing important in Ore-gone.:har::har:. (according to media-types, Oregon is the most important/special/unique/pretty/ state in the union.) They want to hit Boise, ID, but not here. Actually, they probably have too many ex-pats spy...working in the semiconductor industry to nuke Portland.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/31/inside-china-nuclear-submarines-capable-of-widespr/

[Webster]

looks like they are only targeting liberals :up:

cant see the point in not targeting military bases or our nuke sights? but maybe they already own them so they don't have to

[Dread Knot]

China is just following Japan's lead. Everybody bombs Oregon.

http://www.planefax.com/radar/Oregon-5.jpg

[nikimcbee]

looks like they are only targeting liberals :up:

cant see the point in not targeting military bases or our nuke sights? but maybe they already own them so they don't have to

Notice, San Fran....(Chinatown), not in bomb sights.:hmmm:

Paging George Noory.

[nikimcbee]

China is just following Japan's lead. Everybody bombs Oregon.

http://www.planefax.com/radar/Oregon-5.jpg

Especially SEC football.:har::har:, sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Platapus]

The DF-5 and DF31a can hit any target in the US.

[Oberon]

:hmmm:

What on Earth has upset the PRC so much in Seattle and Portland?

Oh...wait...I know...

This is the last mission from World in Conflict isn't it?

You know, that bit where the PRC suddenly breaks with decades of anti-Soviet feelings and decides to help reinforce the beachhead at Seattle, so you have to take Seattle before the PLAN gets there or the US will have to nuke the city.

Must be that.

[Betonov]

I remember that mission. Sawyer was a madman, but at least we stopped the chinese. And putting Whitesnake at the end was a gem :)

[Oberon]

I remember that mission. Sawyer was a madman, but at least we stopped the chinese. And putting Whitesnake at the end was a gem :)

I must admit, I enjoyed the whole storyline as a whole, nuts in terms of plausibility (aside from the European missions and the raids on Russia) but good fun. The last cutscene of Cascade Falls was a memorable one too, and ye gods, holding the line around there was tough, I must have napalmed the forest around the bridges a dozen times.
Good game, a good game. :yep:

[Betonov]

That game really needs a sequel :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Some detailed notes here:

http://missilethreat.com/inside-china-nuclear-submarines-capable-of-widespread-attack-on-u-s/

[Ducimus]

Notice, San Fran....(Chinatown), not in bomb sights.:hmmm:

Paging George Noory.

The article does mention San Francisco as a target.

[nikimcbee]

Heavily influenced by Soviet naval models that stressed underwater forces, China’s nuclear submarine development began with the reverse-engineering of a Soviet Golf-class conventional-powered sub in the 1950s.

Now there's a shocker.:haha:

@Ducimus
SLC\Happy Valley isn't on the map either.:hmmm:

[Red October1984]

looks like they are only targeting liberals :up:

Ha. There'll still be more. They'd need to get both coasts to get all the liberals. :har:

cant see the point in not targeting military bases or our nuke sights? but maybe they already own them so they don't have to

They probably have some sort of virus in our systems that they put in there when they hacked us last.

It'll shut down all of our weapon systems.

At least I'll be safe where I am until the fallout shows up.

[Stealhead]

Well there used to be a good deal of missile silos out that way during the Cold War (but more in the Dakotas) still at the time that might have been their max range.

All that being said we have attack plans for nuclear war just like they do so really I do not see the problem.We have equally deadly plans for China and Russia in the event of a nuclear war.

It seems like that is more of a fallout map the area they would mast want to hit especially in a first strike would our silos scattered across the Dakotas and parts of Washington and Oregon.

@Red they can hit every square inch of the US.

Here is a link to a PDF by chapter on a study of a war between the US and China.Interesting but more strategic rather than the saber rattling Chinese news and the saber rattly counters already linked.
http://www.nukestrat.com/china/chinareport.htm

whole book in one PDF

https://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/Book2006.pdf

The US knows much about China we just do not brag about it like they do.Spying is only so useful after all it is not the only tool and is only tool that is used to estimate.

With over a billion citizens there are plently that will take coin for spying against their own government or will do it for other reasons.

[Wolferz]

Nah, we don't telegraph our plans...
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/Wolferz_2007/wopr_real.jpg

Or do we?:D

[Stealhead]

Honestly,China and Russia are far more likely to fight each other than the US is to fight either.

The reason is resources China needs oil and Russia has lots of it.Both nations if you look at their defensive polices are most highly concerned about the other and in both cases the best infantry and armored units are along the shared border.

On top of that China and Russia have a very long history of disliking each other(in fact they only got along well from about 1949 to 1965) and making claims on the same land once again it is about resource control like it always is and always has been.During the Cold War it was a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation and post 1972 was pretty chilly at best.

The other factor that makes a conflict between the US and China very unlikely is economic China relies very heavily on exports to the US the US alone is a larger market the rest of the world put together the sudden drop of economic relations with he US would be very bad news for China and would mean tens of millions of Chinese out of work which is never good for internal stability.

Getting even deeper than that China has another emerging regional power that it must deal with India.India and China are also not exactly friends and India has ambitions just as China does to make matters more interesting India has great relations with Russia and fairly good relations with the US.

[Fr8monkey]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7881117952/h8EFF126E/

[Stealhead]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7881117952/h8EFF126E/

Yeah and still several million Americans would die but that's cool.:88)

[Oberon]

Yeah and still several million Americans would die but that's cool.:88)

It's ok, they're commie-liberal-pinko-democrats so they're not real Murcans. :03:

[Stealhead]

Well if anyone bothered to read that link I posted wish was written folks that kind of know what they are talking about.The causality hit would be much harsher on the US than it would China so even though we have more weapons and better systems (for now) we also have a much smaller population and from a human cost it would be higher for the US per capatia.

Another important factor for the "gung hos" is that we do not know for certain the location of every single Chinese missile silo unlike with Russia who we do know thanks to START.That means that we have to use up some missiles on educated guesses.The Chinese could try and acquire the START data that Russia has on our silos and know right where each one is so they can more easily make an effective attack on the US that could destroy a good portion of our ICBM force.

It is also public knowledge exactly how many warheads the Us has so all China has to do is simply produce say 1,000 warheads to well counter the 400 that the US has.China at this time is not hindered by START nor any other nuclear weapons treaty short of the 1963 ban on weapons test which they delayed signing.They also have displayed that they are able to very rapidly catch up in the past.They made their first bomb in 1964 just 32 months later in 1967 they tested their first thermonuclear bomb.That leap took the US seven years to go from the first atomic bomb to the first thermonuclear and about the same for the USSR,UK and France.

It is not hard for a nation if it so wishes to gain an equal footing with a more powerful nation it can happen in a matter of years.

[STEED]

So American's first language in around 20 years will be Chinese. :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Make a change from Spanish :)

[Jimbuna]

:har::har::har:

Good grief...it must be infectious!! :o

[Stealhead]

I doubt China would ever attack its 'investment portfolio.


You refer to the fact they have a large share of the US debt.You should not ask what is the short term benefit of this but what is the long term benefit.If a nation has control over anothers debt they gain a lot of power in the long run.They could use this as a way to allow the borrowing nation to wear itself out and then when the time is correct they can suddenly demand full payment and the other nation is stuck.

You could almost use such a thing as a way to control a nation to have outside power when you are not as strong militarily you can gain power by having control of loans and economy by making economic ruin assured you can efficiently counter the threat a larger military might pose.

That idea to take loans from China was a very foolish and short term choice taken by the Us and very beneficial over the long term deal for China.

[Cybermat47]

looks like they are only targeting liberals :up:


The only Liberals worth nuking are members of the Liberal party here in Australia :O:

And they're actually conservative :doh:

[Fr8monkey]

No need to target Conservatives... They are already in the Stone Age.

[Oberon]

You refer to the fact they have a large share of the US debt.You should not ask what is the short term benefit of this but what is the long term benefit.If a nation has control over anothers debt they gain a lot of power in the long run.They could use this as a way to allow the borrowing nation to wear itself out and then when the time is correct they can suddenly demand full payment and the other nation is stuck.

You could almost use such a thing as a way to control a nation to have outside power when you are not as strong militarily you can gain power by having control of loans and economy by making economic ruin assured you can efficiently counter the threat a larger military might pose.

That idea to take loans from China was a very foolish and short term choice taken by the Us and very beneficial over the long term deal for China.

I think the big deal for China with the US at the moment is not so much the debt guarantee, although that is a nice back-up, but the trade quotient. It's a nice little earner. Likewise with Taiwan and Japan, they have a good trade network and the Chinese economy is geared towards creating goods for export at low cost. Obviously this is unsustainable and there is a major movement in the US to bring manufacturing employment back to the US from China, so, if I recall correctly, the current five year plan (which runs from 2012 to 2017) calls for the creation of a market within China for the cheap goods that China produces. To do that they've got to improve the quality of life for citizens in the countryside, which will also help prevent any socialist uprisings from the countryside against the rich and urban coastline cities.
As such, it would be reckless for China to put itself in a position where it finds itself at war with a major trading partner, sure it can create tension and engage in a war of words, like it has been doing with Japan over the Senkaku islands, but it won't actually create a war.

You're spot on about the casualty figures though, America has a lot more to lose than the PRC, but out of the two nations I think that America would probably recover from an exchange faster than the PRC, although there is a more than reasonable chance that both nations will fracture along certain lines. Of course, a non-nuclear option would be to simply ram something into the Three Gorges Dam, which would probably kill more people than a single nuclear warhead would...of course the PRC has vowed to respond to any attack on the Dam with their nuclear weapons so unless you were very clever about disguising how it was destroyed (since the Dam itself is fairly fragile, being made out of not particularly brilliant concrete and built on a fault line :/\\!!) you'd still get a face full of Dong-Fengs.

Either which way, the idea of a red scare this side of 2017 is quite unlikely. This whole nuke map thing is just the sort of 'look what my nukes can do' that the US and USSR partook in during the Cold War with the ever bigger MT test explosions.

[Betonov]

Leave that dam alone. I worked on that project.

In a war with the US, China also looses half the european market. NATO is stil active.
And the Russians would love a cripled and/or boged down China. Easier to take resources.

[Jimbuna]

It all sounds like a game of Chinese Chequers.

[Mr Quatro]

That map must be a joke :yep: without San Diego on the target list at least that Southern California dot is more up around LA and Seal Beach area anyway.

You don't have any strategy without San Diego due to three nuclear aircraft carriers sitting over at North Island in San Diego Bay and her escorts at 32 nd Street on the other side of the Coronado Bay Bridge, repair facilities, US Naval supply center and a few submarines left for training at Ballast Point (entrance to San Diego Bay).

North Island naval airbase on Coronado and Miramar marine airbase, formally known as Top Gun which moved to Reno, Nevada several years ago.

Point Loma itself is hollow used as a holding storage base for nuclear weapons for the ships and planes and submarines.

Yes, indeed San Diego is ground zero for anyone considering launching an attack on the good ole USA.

Edward Teller, father of the H bomb, had a novel plan to build a naval base in Alaska using low yield nuclear weapons grade material to secure a port there. Mr Teller was considered a little bit of a lunatic with his idea, but in hindsight Alaska would make a great place to have a naval base with Russia and China being so much closer.

True any first strike would only take a few more moments to reach San Diego, but if she was no longer a forward base for the 1st fleet and no ships or nuclear weapons remain ... would she then be considered a worthy target?

I don't think China or Russia is into just nuking a bunch of citizens, but would be more concerned with weapons that could be directed back at them on the expected strike back. The San Diego area population including Tijuana is around four (4) million people ... all would surely die in a first strike. :oops:

Perhaps Mr Teller was not so crazy after all, just a man ahead of his time.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/bomb/peopleevents/pandeAMEX73.html


People & Events Edward Teller, (1908 - 2003) Of all the scientists who worked on the U.S. nuclear weapons program none have led more controversial a career than ...

[Oberon]

Well, to be fair, there would be two war scenarios, a transition to war scenario in which case there wouldn't be any carriers in San Diego, or a bolt out of the blue scenario in which case the victory would be pyrrhic. Certainly casualty rates wise the PRC would probably fair better than the US because of a more spread out population, but there's a reason we didn't have a nuclear war with the Soviet Union and it still applies.


So yeah, the map is a joke... :03:


EDIT: In regards to Teller, the Teller-Ulam device is a thing of scientific beauty, terrifying but very well designed.