This game cheats BIG TIME!

[Shkval]

Well, a few nights ago I saved patrol in the middle of Bungo strait, after the nice Hiroshima harbor raid, (Fuso goes down), and a lots of dodging of patrol boats I finally passed the shore defenses and the night settled down, I did sound check, surfaced and saved that game. Last night I loaded that save and immediately got "Warship sighted" warning... 156 degrees, 5600 meters! Swung around with binoculars... three destroyers in column steaming on me at medium speed :o:timeout:! After a series of panicking keyboard shortcuts commands I managed to slip away unnoticed, but this was really close one! I was almost unarmed (one torpedo stern tube) and my batteries were at 75%. Did anyone had similar experience?

[Hinrich Schwab]

Well, a few nights ago I saved patrol in the middle of Bungo strait, after the nice Hiroshima harbor raid, (Fuso goes down), and a lots of dodging of patrol boats I finally passed the shore defenses and the night settled down, I did sound check, surfaced and saved that game. Last night I loaded that save and immediately got "Warship sighted" warning... 156 degrees, 5600 meters! Swung around with binoculars... three destroyers in column steaming on me at medium speed :o:timeout:! After a series of panicking keyboard shortcuts commands I managed to slip away unnoticed, but this was really close one! I was almost unarmed (one torpedo stern tube) and my batteries were at 75%. Did anyone had similar experience?


How close were you to shore when you saved? Both 3 and 4 are...weird if you save within 50 miles of shore. Ships and groups appearing and disappearing at random are common issues. The game isn't "cheating", as your title implies. It is an old bug that was never resolved in the core code.

[Dread Knot]

For me, I guess find it more annoying that we as virtual skippers, can wander into a major enemy naval base and pump torpedoes into a 29,000 ton moored battleship unscathed. No mines, no nets, no underwater obstructions. I realize almost everyone does it at some point in SH4 ( and in SH3) as well. That's the game the devs gave us, but it does make the sim feel less historical and more arcadey.

Yes, Prien did it at Scapa Flow, but British efforts there began late to repair peacetime neglect of the harbor's defences. The Germans never tried it again.

[Shkval]

Well about 15-17 km on port and starboard... I don't know is this a bug, but it surely stinks like cheating to me :hmm2:.

[Webster]

yes, sunk ships reappearing after saves is a known "issue" as well an unreal detection of your sub at long distances in conditions were spotting you should be and is not possible. not to mention the unreal sniper accuracy of the guns on ships that can spot and hit your periscope at ranges in excess of 5,000 meters!

it is a game and its built in need to make it difficult on you to keep things "fun" means things like this are just part of the game

[Bilge_Rat]

For me, I guess find it more annoying that we as virtual skippers, can wander into a major enemy naval base and pump torpedoes into a 29,000 ton moored battleship unscathed. No mines, no nets, no underwater obstructions. I realize almost everyone does it at some point in SH4 ( and in SH3) as well. That's the game the devs gave us, but it does make the sim feel less historical and more arcadey.

Yes, Prien did it at Scapa Flow, but British efforts there began late to repair peacetime neglect of the harbor's defences. The Germans never tried it again.

Most of the mods, TMO, RFB, RSRDC add mines, nets, coastal batteries, protective ASW patrols. I got sunk by a mine off of the Inland Sea in a TMO/RSRDC career. However, there are still gaps/unprotected areas.

I play with a personal "house rule" of not sneaking into harbours.

[Armistead]

If a group is timed to spawn, but your in it's contact zone, it won't spawn. This happens so a group won't spawn on top of you. For instance say you're at a port at 8am hours and by chance a group is supposed to spawn in the same spot as you at 810am, it won't, that way a TF doesn't spawn on top of you. However, if you save and load, the group would've properly spawned and could be on top of you.

[Hinrich Schwab]

Well about 15-17 km on port and starboard... I don't know is this a bug, but it surely stinks like cheating to me :hmm2:.

Without knowing the absolute details, I cannot say. It sounds like you were still too close to shore and the spawn initialization happened to be within that range of your boat. Again, saving within 50 miles of shore can be tricky for just this reason.

I usually encounter the opposite of ships disappearing. I was playing with a destroyer off Melekeok and it was banging around for me. After an hour or so, he turns to put in to port and then disappears completely 8500 yards away. :doh: I had no save files involved with that and simply shrugged my shoulders and smoked every ship docked there laughing at the holes in the game's code.

As far as "magic ships" go, I normally see it in SH3 during the early war. There is almost always a Black Swan frigate that magically pops into BF 17 if your time compression exceeds x64. :/\\!! It always seems to make Bungo Pete and the HMS Walker look like amateurs in ASW, too. :shifty:

[Sailor Steve]

For me, I guess find it more annoying that we as virtual skippers, can wander into a major enemy naval base and pump torpedoes into a 29,000 ton moored battleship unscathed. No mines, no nets, no underwater obstructions. I realize almost everyone does it at some point in SH4 ( and in SH3) as well. That's the game the devs gave us, but it does make the sim feel less historical and more arcadey.
I agree with this. Yes, US sub skippers did raid harbors, but they were small harbors and merchants were sunk. A major naval base? Never. Sinking battleships inside Japanese bases? Not realistic at all. All these games "cheat" in that way, making it far too easy to get unrealistic tonnage.

Yes, Prien did it at Scapa Flow, but British efforts there began late to repair peacetime neglect of the harbor's defences. The Germans never tried it again.
And even then Prien was only successful because Dönitz himself carefully planned the raid using aerial photographs.

[Dread Knot]

I play with a personal "house rule" of not sneaking into harbours.

I do too. Even with the mods I still find harbor raiding rather easy. The few patrol vessels on station are rather easy to dodge.

Another thing that always irked me is the lack of a strong reaction. When the Japanese battleship Mutsu accidently blew up at the Hashirajima anchorage near Hiroshima in 1943, the Japanese assumed it was a submarine and put strong air and sea patrols at all the entrances to the Inland Sea and put the fleet on alert.
In the game, I've noticed that a few subchasers may come over and sniff about at the site of the vessel you sank, but by then I'm long gone. There is no real effort to cut you off from escaping. Not to mention that other anchored warships that are also potential sitting ducks don't even stir.

[merc4ulfate]

I have also noticed that if you sink ships and they are simply sitting on the bottom or are on their way down and you save the game they can be back on the surface next time. since the game has not totally gotten rid of them in essence they are still viable.

Last near land load of a saved game I had left me with absolutely no crew men at all. Dead in the water and no crew to run anything. I hadnt lost much but it was sure weird to not even see crew slots on the personal tab. No slots not even lined out boxes where they should have been and also no equipment showing up on the boat. nothing like being the only one on the boat and stuck in the middle of the Indian Ocean.

[Armistead]

I do too. Even with the mods I still find harbor raiding rather easy. The few patrol vessels on station are rather easy to dodge.

Another thing that always irked me is the lack of a strong reaction. When the Japanese battleship Mutsu accidently blew up at the Hashirajima anchorage near Hiroshima in 1943, the Japanese assumed it was a submarine and put strong air and sea patrols at all the entrances to the Inland Sea and put the fleet on alert.
In the game, I've noticed that a few subchasers may come over and sniff about at the site of the vessel you sank, but by then I'm long gone. There is no real effort to cut you off from escaping. Not to mention that other anchored warships that are also potential sitting ducks don't even stir.

They're mods that correct and deal with these issues.. However, anchored warships will not come after you as they're docked.

[Webster]

They're mods that correct and deal with these issues.. However, anchored warships will not come after you as they're docked.

true but sometimes you come across a DD in port just sitting there not moving but also not set as "docked" so once there is a strike on a ship it is triggered on alert status and comes alive and starts looking for you.

so while it is rare, you cant always assume a DD in port wont come after you but it would have to be one that's away from the dock. other warships or any of the ships at the piers wont come after you

[merc4ulfate]

Operation Monsun has plenty of those British DD's sitting there all stop but not specifically anchored. I had two run me into the ocean bottom one night in Portsmouth. They used the dreaded Hedgehogs and literally blew my bow up to the surface from the concussion of exploding in such shallow water. The boat completely surfaced at that and they blew me to pieces with their deck guns.

I am very wary of Escorts who remain still and never fire at them thinking they will not move. When I do fire I send two fish. The first is to move them the second I fire leading them knowing once they move the first will miss.

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
OpsMonsun_V705
OMv705_to_V720
OMv720_Patch5
OMEGU_v300
OMEGU_v300_Patch7
OM_Harder_Escort_L2
UBM Missions
Popular German Music From The 30´s
OM_Pac_Env
#1 Real Environment mod install

[Dread Knot]

They used the dreaded Hedgehogs and literally blew my bow up to the surface from the concussion of exploding in such shallow water.

I wouldn't want any British escort with ahead throwing weapons in three nautical miles of me. Not even in a Type XXI. They are nasty.

[Bubblehead1980]

Cheating? no, it's a spawn load/save issue, it happens. Cheating is raiding a major naval base like that.Part of my upgrade to RSRD is fixing pretty much every major harbor so that such shenanigans are not possible or if you do, it's highly unlikely will survive between the mines(which have been upgraded so they destroy your sub, no unrealistic surviving of mine impacts) obstacles etc.

[merc4ulfate]

>>Bubblehead are you speaking of a new upgrade or the existing RSRD?<<

I left a recent thread that addresses the real life exploits of the late war efforts to attack shipping routes around ports of England and the outcome of such maneuvers. It is a great documentary.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=208867

[Webster]

>>Bubblehead are you speaking of a new upgrade or the existing RSRD?<<




yep he's working on an update for RSRDC to bring it new life


IT"S ALIVE, ALIVE !!!!!

it should be a great mod because he is trying to address all the shortcommings and things left undone by the mod when it was declared "final version" by the modder who made it

[merc4ulfate]

oh I look forward to this

[torpedobait]

Operation Monsun has plenty of those British DD's sitting there all stop but not specifically anchored. I had two run me into the ocean bottom one night in Portsmouth. They used the dreaded Hedgehogs and literally blew my bow up to the surface from the concussion of exploding in such shallow water. The boat completely surfaced at that and they blew me to pieces with their deck guns.

I am very wary of Escorts who remain still and never fire at them thinking they will not move. When I do fire I send two fish. The first is to move them the second I fire leading them knowing once they move the first will miss.

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
OpsMonsun_V705
OMv705_to_V720
OMv720_Patch5
OMEGU_v300
OMEGU_v300_Patch7
OM_Harder_Escort_L2
UBM Missions
Popular German Music From The 30´s
OM_Pac_Env
#1 Real Environment mod install

Beware the escort that is motionless but has steam up (check the stacks). No smoke = no motion if you fire at him; smoke present, he is listening for you and will pursue.

[Sailor Steve]

Cheating? no, it's a spawn load/save issue, it happens. Cheating is raiding a major naval base like that.
:yep:

I completely agree. I once responded to someone on the SH3 forum complaining about the ocean floor being "unrealistic", saying "Using External View is realistic?"