Torpedo anti-Torpedo

[biosthetique]

Now it is official:

http://defensetech.org/2013/10/28/na...gy/#more-21660 (http://defensetech.org/2013/10/28/navy-deploying-new-anti-torpedo-technology/#more-21660)

And the Torpedo anti-torpedo from Atlas-Elektronik:

http://www.atlas-elektronik.com/what...ons/seaspider/ (http://www.atlas-elektronik.com/what-we-do/naval-weapons/seaspider/)

[Leandros]

Now it is official:

http://defensetech.org/2013/10/28/na...gy/#more-21660 (http://defensetech.org/2013/10/28/navy-deploying-new-anti-torpedo-technology/#more-21660)

And the Torpedo anti-torpedo from Atlas-Elektronik:

http://www.atlas-elektronik.com/what...ons/seaspider/ (http://www.atlas-elektronik.com/what-we-do/naval-weapons/seaspider/)

Not surprised - but I am a little surprised that they haven't worked on a simpler solution - like IR-seeking mortar rounds coupled to the sonar system. This is an existing technology against moving tanks. Without knowing this I should think a torpedo leaves a significant IR track.

Or IR sensors coupled to the CIWS already mounted on many naval vessels. These are, after all, capable of shooting down incoming missiles.

Or even simpler, a modern version of the Hedgehog - the forward-firing salvo-depth charges

OK, the torpedo constructors would then load their torpedoes with underwater chaff and there we go again....Wouldn't work against a hedgehog system, though. Only problem with that is that range had to be increased for better margins.

Then the torpedo designer would make them go deeper til they reach sprint distance......and so forth....

How shall they counter an anti-torpedo torpedo? With an anti-anti torpedo torpedo....:o...

Fred

[Herman]

Or even simpler, a modern version of the Hedgehog - the forward-firing salvo-depth charges

Supposedly, this was one use of the Soviet/Russian RBU anti-submarine rocket system.

[Sunburn]

So now we have a real-world example. That's great!

In accordance with what I said earlier: (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2119319&postcount=15)

BTW If I am wrong and this capability is described anywhere out there (outside the SSN game), please do correct me. I would be interested in learning more about it. Thanks!...we can now look into implementing this capability properly in Command.

BTW, thanks for confirming my suspicion that it takes brand-new 2010s sonar technology and special mini "interceptor torps" to do this, and you can't do it with old conventional sonars and any traditional torp and certainly not a Mk48. You just confirmed the Clancy-SSN implementation was arcadish :D. Thanks man!

[Julhelm]

You don't need 2010-era tech to do it. It's just the USN needs to think about these things now that they no longer have ASW frigates to put in the wake of a carrier if someone launches a torpedo at it.

And it's not like the ability to detonate a weapon on command is some fantasy invention. The old Mk45 ASTOR had this very functionality and I'd be surprised it it weren't retained for later weapons.

[Sunburn]

Hi Julhelm, I agree it's a combination of technological maturity and doctrinal needs but even back in the old days the sacrificial frigate was really more of a desperate measure against the Soviet wake-homing monsters rather than a conscious choice. It is reasonable to assume that if the USN had any other viable countermeasure they'd prefer it to losing an escort every time a Sov skipper got within range.

IIRC the command-detonation was a necessity in the Mk45 because it had no terminal homing of its own and relied on the firing sub's sonar picture for guidance (similar to nuclear SAMs in this manner). In Command we do in fact perform remote detonation of such weapons when they reach the estimated target position but it's something done automatically by the virtual sub crew, not manually by the player.

Thanks for your input!

[Herman]

Now it is official:

http://defensetech.org/2013/10/28/na...gy/#more-21660 (http://defensetech.org/2013/10/28/navy-deploying-new-anti-torpedo-technology/#more-21660)

And the Torpedo anti-torpedo from Atlas-Elektronik:

http://www.atlas-elektronik.com/what...ons/seaspider/ (http://www.atlas-elektronik.com/what-we-do/naval-weapons/seaspider/)

In direct response to a request for assistance from:
ORIGINAL: Gunnyhighway

And the so called specialist said it was impossible!

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3855769/WAS_IST_DAS_And_the_so_called_#Post3855769

This video will demonstrate how Harpoon players can create their own weapons systems according to their own desires without any need to contact a developer, database manager, or video creator to do it on their behalf due to the openness of the publicly available Harpoon databases and the database editor program included with the game.

You can watch Creating Anti-Torpedo Defense systems in HUE v3.10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibMaDSz4fqs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibMaDSz4fqs

A fundamental difference (and advantage) between an open game system like Harpoon and a closed one like MNO is the ability for users to create weapons systems like the ATD on their own in Harpoon.

we can now look into implementing this capability properly in Command.

BTW, thanks for confirming my suspicion that it takes brand-new 2010s sonar technology and special mini "interceptor torps" to do this, and you can't do it with old conventional sonars and any traditional torp and certainly not a Mk48. You just confirmed the Clancy-SSN implementation was arcadish :D. Thanks man!
Actually, anyone planning to replicate the function already found in Harpoon should know that the anti-torpedo sonar is the same one as found on the ADCAP when it came out in the 1970s or so. No special advances in either sonar or torpedo technology were needed or used. This anti-torpedo function even works with old conventional sonar and a traditional torpedo for those wanting to simulate it in that manner. However, it would be great if this anti-torpedo function did not exhibit the same Pac-man behaviour shown by the Phoenix missiles in MNO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0F8v-AFC0s&list=PLCddXNp2g4cM3S95D_XyDZ9roKVRmPoLE&index=5

You don't need 2010-era tech to do it. It's just the USN needs to think about these things now that they no longer have ASW frigates to put in the wake of a carrier if someone launches a torpedo at it.

And it's not like the ability to detonate a weapon on command is some fantasy invention. The old Mk45 ASTOR had this very functionality and I'd be surprised it it weren't retained for later weapons.
Exactly right; we just demonstrated the ability to create anti-torpedo defense systems with technology from the 1970s.

[Julhelm]

Hi Julhelm, I agree it's a combination of technological maturity and doctrinal needs but even back in the old days the sacrificial frigate was really more of a desperate measure against the Soviet wake-homing monsters rather than a conscious choice. It is reasonable to assume that if the USN had any other viable countermeasure they'd prefer it to losing an escort every time a Sov skipper got within range.
You could probably defeat a wake homer by firing ASROC rounds at it. After all a torpedo is just a very small submarine.

[biosthetique]

So now we have a real-world example. That's great!

In accordance with what I said earlier: (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2119319&postcount=15)

...we can now look into implementing this capability properly in Command.

BTW, thanks for confirming my suspicion that it takes brand-new 2010s sonar technology and special mini "interceptor torps" to do this, and you can't do it with old conventional sonars and any traditional torp and certainly not a Mk48. You just confirmed the Clancy-SSN implementation was arcadish :D. Thanks man!

How seriously can I take your remarks when you don't even have a system of collection of information in regards to gather and organize real world data for your game, you just wait for other people's charity?

I have to say something for you to re-actualize your "Realistic" game?...

That is the perfect example of intelligence break down!....Or "Blow Back" for that matter!

Be honest, you don't read between lines and you did not see it coming because you are not a ASW weapon system analyst.

You just sell a computer game!...

[Julhelm]

To be fair, there seems to be a trend among sim developers today to go with declassified, published data and only declassified, published data. Devs in the 80's and 90's went with published declassified data and a fair bit of guesstimation as to what was classified and ended up closer to real capability as a result.

[John Channing]

How seriously can I take your remarks when you don't even have a system of collection of information in regards to gather and organize real world data for your game, you just wait for other people's charity?

I have to say something for you to re-actualize your "Realistic" game?...

That is the perfect example of intelligence break down!....Or "Blow Back" for that matter!

Be honest, you don't read between lines and you did not see it coming because you are not a ASW weapon system analyst.

You just sell a computer game!...


Could you possibly de-personalize your posts a little bit going forward. It perfectly fine to voice your opinions, but some of your posts are bordering on personal attacks, and that is something we can't have here at Subsim.

Thanks

JCC

[biosthetique]

Could you possibly de-personalize your posts a little bit going forward. It perfectly fine to voice your opinions, but some of your posts are bordering on personal attacks, and that is something we can't have here at Subsim.

Thanks

JCC

Denied!