What Would You Have Done? New KTB

[Gustav Schiebert]

After a little break I've started making up my KTBs again. This one is from a patrol I did yesterday, and it comes with a little dilemma. I won't give too much away, it's a very short patrol but basically I end up with heavy damage and have to decide whether to return to base or not. (Creative license taken in writing - wen I 'ask BdU for permisson', that's me just texting my mate and asking him for what he thinks, then that becomes BdU's orders).

U-46 First Patrol (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxwYWxsYWRpYW5ndWFyZGZpbGVz aGFja3xneDo1MDBmZTYwOTNhZjBlNTZl)

[sublynx]

Nice report about a near-destruction experience :up: A return trip after the damage, for sure.

[Gustav Schiebert]

Now, y'see that's what I thought. Two dead crew and all those bust systems, I turned straight round and headed home.

But after about six hours all the systems were repaired, with the significant exceptions of the bow caps and attack periscope. But I could certainly have still tracked convoys even if I couldn't have attacked them.

When I got back in and looked at the patrol report, the Hull Integrity said 95% ... despite the boat showing all the signs of being on the edge of destuction, such as a total inability to hold depth, adgitated warnings from the Enigineer that we were 'taking damage' at 100m, etc. So now I think I could have got away with staying out there.

Thanks for reading, glad you enjoyed it :yeah:

Nice report about a near-destruction experience :up: A return trip after the damage, for sure.

[HW3]

Unsure of the condition of the boat, and the safety of the crew at stake, definitely head for home. It is better to play it safe, and live to fight another day, than to take the chance and lose the boat and crew too.:yep:

[Jimbuna]

Your primary concern should always be for your boat and crew....return to base.

[sublynx]

So now I think I could have got away with staying out there.

But when you made the decision you didn't know. What you knew was that you had been badly damaged and that the officer responsible for the technical functioning of the boat was warning about more damage.

+ the game does not simulate taking care of your crew. I would think that after the death of two of their mates and the risk on their lives and the unknown condition of the boat, the crewmen would have seen you as a pretty ruthless commander, if you had continued on. I remember reading somewhere that during the later war years there were suspicions that the crewmen had caused malfunctions on the boat to force a return trip. The respect of your crewmen is a precious thing and even if it is not simulated, there is no reason we can't play as if it was a part of the game. Of course the balancing between making the crewmen to function well under danger and on the other hand not risking their lives unnecessarily, is really not easy at all and in this sense the decision was not easy either.

Anyways I think it was a good decision and in the spirit of the game - of course depending on what kind of a commander you would like to play as :arrgh!:

[Gustav Schiebert]

Thanks for reading and for the advice chaps. Having slept on it a bit, I think I was being a bit harsh on myself with hindsight. I try to play as realistic as possible, and having read a lot of KTBs where Donitz writes on scathing comments about commanders who return to base with minor damage I was keen to avoid that. Also, the key factor about not being able to do underwater torpedo attacks was pretty key.

Donitz himself in Ten Years and Twenty Days makes it pretty clear he expected commanders to be totally unwavering, single minded and persistent but if I was doing this IRL, sublynx you are spot on with the whole crew respect thing. And at the end of the day he who fights and runs away...

Perhaps overthinking slightly but this is exactly the sort of thing I like to do, and that SH3 and SUBSIM help you do, is take the game further and use it as a really good historical tool to understand a little bit more about what life is like.

Anyway, thanks again for reading that and for your thoughts, despite my initial reservations I'm coming round to agree with you now. Oblt z S Wils is going to have another go, as his Second War Patrol is coming up shortly, I shall keep you posted...

[sublynx]

Perhaps overthinking slightly but this is exactly the sort of thing I like to do, and that SH3 and SUBSIM help you do, is take the game further and use it as a really good historical tool to understand a little bit more about what life is like.

Oblt z S Wils is going to have another go, as his Second War Patrol is coming up shortly, I shall keep you posted...

That's good to hear, it's always nice to hear a detailed description on how other players approach the game. I feel that the one thing that sets SH3 apart from most other games is the feeling that it can actually give some sense about the historical era the game's based on :know:

[flag4]

Your primary concern should always be for your boat and crew....return to base.


:yep:

[Aktungbby]

95% hull integrity!:nope: Welcome home Kaleun:salute: Here is your Mauser and orders for Stalingrad:dead:

[Von Tonner]

95% hull integrity!:nope: Welcome home Kaleun:salute: Here is your Mauser and orders for Stalingrad:dead:

At what percentage of hull integrity would one justifiably turn back for home ?

It is 1942 and at dead of night while on the surface on my way to my designated patrol grid I came across a coastal freighter and merchant. I lay in wait on the surface as it was pitch dark. As the coastal freighter passed I fired one torpedo and waited agonisingly for the merchant to cross in line. My game plan was to have fired the second torpedo before the first torpedo hit the coastal freighter and then get under. Unfortunately it did not happen that way. The first struck minutes before I was able to get the second off.

The sky lit up and I was under heavy fire from both ships. I should have immediately crash dived as these ships were going nowhere with no escorts to help them from a submerged attack. But I don't know, one tends to get caught up in the moment and become irrational as the adrenaline of attack, attack pumps through one. So I waited out those precious minutes exposed on the surface and under attack to release the second torpedo.

My officers were screaming out the damage we were taking but one kinda becomes so transfixed in one's game plan that reason becomes the first casualty.

Though the two torpedo's did their work I now sit submerged with hull damage at 62% and wonder if, for the sake of my crew and boat (I play DID) I should not turn back for home. And yes, I know its a bit late down the track to start behaving like a real Kapitan who would never have got himself into this position to begin with I would however like your opinion - go home or continue?

There is a milk cow within distance but I feel that is a little cheat as they were really only there for fuel, supplies and torpedo's - not major repairs to one's boat.

[sublynx]

At what percentage of hull integrity would one justifiably turn back for home ?

I wouldn't think about the damage percentage too much. I would take the situation as a lesson to be learned.

Your mistake was not retreating when you should have retreated to have a safer go later. Now you ponder what would be a mistake, to continue attacking or to retreat.

As attacking decisively seems to come naturally for you, it might be wise to keep on learning cautiousness. :ping:

When you arrive to your base after the abandoned patrol, you might experience a healthy frustration that might pop up in your mind the next time you are in a situation where retreating in order to keep attacking would be the sensible thing to do.

[Von Tonner]

I wouldn't think about the damage percentage too much. I would take the situation as a lesson to be learned.

Your mistake was not retreating when you should have retreated to have a safer go later. Now you ponder what would be a mistake, to continue attacking or to retreat.

As attacking decisively seems to come naturally for you, it might be wise to keep on learning cautiousness. :ping:

When you arrive to your base after the abandoned patrol, you might experience a healthy frustration that might pop up in your mind the next time you are in a situation where retreating in order to keep attacking would be the sensible thing to do.

Why do I feel as if I have just spent an hour with my therapist:D

You are 100% correct Sublynx. It is a lessoned to be learned. But on a more serious note your remarks on my game play or any others game play would probably give a good insight to what makes that player tick:o

[WilhelmSchulz.]

I may sound stupid but whats a KTB?

[Draka]

Kriegstagebücher = KTB = War Diary

This is the official record of the U-boat's daily activities during a patrol. It started (first entry) with the maintenance, repairs, etc in port and ended upon return to port. Depending upon the year, etc, up to 13 copies were turned in!

This page will give a wide range of actual KTB's turned in:

http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTBList.htm

Draka

[Aktungbby]

95% hull integrity!:nope: Welcome home Kaleun:salute: Here is your Mauser and orders for Stalingrad:dead:

At what percentage of hull integrity would one justifiably turn back for home ?


The sky lit up and I was under heavy fire from both ships. I should have immediately crash dived as these ships were going nowhere with no escorts to help them from a submerged attack.
My officers were screaming out the damage we were taking but one kinda becomes so transfixed in one's game plan that reason becomes the first casualty.

Though the two torpedo's did their work I now sit submerged with hull damage at 62% and wonder if, for the sake of my crew and boat
.
AHH! NOW IT'S 62%... THAT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT. What settles it for me is if I still have flank speed and can dive to 200 meters or not. As for the other matter; even in pitch dark be 'heavy' at 5-6 meters which shaves off dive time by at least 50 seconds when suddenly 'lit up' by those 'docile looking' merchants. In strong air cover area such as Biscay, it's actually defense #1. Case in point as I recall is Hans Goebeler's book about U-505 which was EXTREMELY heavily damaged just as the crew were 'thinking' about exactly that procedure (and extra lookouts as cloud cover was 'ambush' low) as radar and air activity was prevalent, off Trinidad. The heavily damaged IX U-505 limped back to port and is now on display at Chicago. Fighting any aircraft on the surface iss verboten-whatever ADM Dönitz may say!:salute:

[sublynx]

Why do I feel as if I have just spent an hour with my therapist:D

Maybe I should consult Neal Stevens in order to start a forum called "U-boat Therapist" :arrgh!:

[speargun]

Wow, that is an impressive KTB! After I complete a patrol I always write up an expanded patrol report from notes taken during the mission, and it is time consuming with nothing like the detail you have presented. A real labour of love.

The decision to return home having a couple of dead crew and a bashed up boat, I think was a realistic one. You managed to sink three ships for the fatherland- not a bad effort.