Getting constant BSODs when playing Skryim

[frau kaleun]

Altho as I've just discovered, this seems to be a problem when playing in fullscreen mode. I just played for about 10 minutes with the game windowed, so I could monitor the temps of the CPU and motherboard while the game was running - and the CPU went up by 10 C at most (topped out in the low to mid 50s) while the MB's temp hardly budged at all. They both stayed well below the manufacturer's default temp for an "alarm threshhold" or whatever according to their software for monitoring and configuring such things.

So to back up a bit - I started a new game and played enough hours to get to level 15 or so with no problems whatsoever - no lag, graphics looked awesome, everything was fine. Then all of a sudden the game starts crashing. Like, less than five minutes into a session, BOOM - and I don't mean the game crashes to desktop, I mean the entire system freezes up with either a BSOD and a restart or else the screen goes black and eventually I have to turn it off manually by holding down the power button. Or some combo of both, sometimes it BSODs and then can't seem to restart without me forcing a shutdown.

I have gone through the events log and done my best to see what errors were coming up, there was a repeated error which turned out to have something to do with video card drivers - found what looked like a fix for that and applied it, didn't help. I upgraded the drivers to the newest version - didn't help. I've uninstalled them and reverted back to older versions - didn't help.

In the midst of all this, I started having trouble with Steam itself - I'd get an error when trying to start it up, that the Steam Client Bootstrapper couldn't open or whatever. Then I started wondering if maybe Steam itself was crapping out mid-game, so I searched around for stuff on that. Tried some different things with Steam such as troubleshooting for compatibility, Windows wanted to run it in the comp mode for XP SP3, so I let it, which seemed to fix that problem.

Then after reinstalling the latest GPU drivers I was able to run it without any special comp mode and it was fine. Now tonight I can only start it in offline mode, altho they seem to be having issues according to the website so that may be their problem and not mine. I'm not getting the error about the program crapping out, at any rate.

So at first I thought it was my CPU crapping out, but at least in windowed mode that doesn't seem to happen... I ran my PC through a couple of areas that are very intense due to the Warzones mod, and had no lag and no crash - everything went fine. Just prior to that when I booted up in fullscreen I couldn't even walk blithely across a mostly empty field with getting a BSOD after a couple minutes at most.

I'm looking for something on my system that will let me monitor the GPU temps but I can't seem to find it... doesn't appear to be included in Catalyst Control Center at all. Is there a free program I can snag somewhere that will let me do that? I have an HD Radeon 6950.

Barring a way to monitor the temps on the GPU I guess my next option is to take all the mods off and start a new totally vanilla game and see if I still get a system crash, altho I'm not convinced it's overloading due to mods as I've been playing with the same set up for quite a while. I added a couple new texture mods for this latest game but removing them doesn't help and I'd already played 15 levels with them in place with no problem, so I dunno. I am having ZERO problems doing anything else, it's just running the game (fullscreen) that seems to be impossible.

Either some bit of hardware is getting seriously overloaded when I do that - or else there's a driver or other software issue that I can't figure out... not that I know where else to look at this point. I tried downloading the Windows Debugging tool to be able to read the dump files from the crashes, but THAT won't install properly so no luck there. I am getting a Locale ID of 1033 but after searching that I still can't tell if it means hardware itself or hardware bugging out due to driver errors or other software problems.

I'm actually at the point of thinking I should just back up everything and reinstall Windows and all other software and drivers, but if it's an actual piece of hardware that's dying then that would be a lot of hassle for nothing. :wah:

[Arclight]

This should give some comprehensive feedback on temperatures and such: http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

Keep an eye on temps and voltages I'd say, see if they don't deviate too much. If the issue isn't there it becomes a bit of a guessing game. :hmmm:

[frau kaleun]

This should give some comprehensive feedback on temperatures and such: http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

Keep an eye on temps and voltages I'd say, see if they don't deviate too much. If the issue isn't there it becomes a bit of a guessing game. :hmmm:

Thanks, I will take a look at it.

I've got one little app running right now that came with the CPU, I guess, that monitors frequency and voltage.

The voltage seems to be staying stable at around 1.45v, but the frequency keeps bouncing up and down from 800 to 2200 to 3400 MHz and back again. Of course I'm not doing anything right now but looking at a couple of browser windows and typing in this one, but is that normal?

Edit: okay, I'm trying to download it and Windows is telling me the file couldn't be downloaded. Tried both the ftp and html links too.

NEVER MIND, it finally came through. Jeebus H. Cripes, can ANYTHING I try not give me problems? Lol.

Aaaaand NEVER MIND THAT, because whatever got downloaded was a partial file or something because the setup won't run and it's telling me again that I couldn't be downloaded when I go back to try again. GOSH DARN IT I SURE WISH I COULD SWEAR IN HERE. :O:

[HW3]

Try here

http://download.cnet.com/HWMonitor/3000-2094_4-10793486.html?tag=mncol;1

:salute:

[frau kaleun]

Well I don't know what was going on but for a while there I couldn't download ANYTHING, including small files from the Downloads here. It was like it was trying to download the link to where the file was, instead of the file itself. But I finally got HWMonitor after rebooting the computer AGAIN and going back to the page. Sheesh.

At this point I'm getting more and more interested in reinstalling Windows because it's like a giant clusteryouknowwhat of things, every time I try to do something it's like something ELSE doesn't work right.

[frau kaleun]

Here's a question - would playing a game in fullscreen put enough additional stress on the hardware to cause a crash, when playing windowed does not? Because if the answer is no, then I would think it's more likely to be software related, specifically some setting or file that is causing the fullscreen mode to crap out.

Altho I didn't change anything prior to this problem starting, so I can't imagine what file or setting that would be. Unless Windows did an automatic update that screwed up something somewhere, but I couldn't find anything that looked suspicious in that area. :hmmm:

[frau kaleun]

Found something that would read any .dmp files for me, and got HWMonitor, and now I can't reproduce the crash. :har:

By which I mean I just played for about 15 minutes in fullscreen including running through the same two areas of heavy activity and getting caught up in a battle with numerous enemies who killed me dead, and everything was fine.

I checked HWMonitor a couple times during that and the GPU temp never got above 62 degrees Celsius... and I believe that's well within the safe parameters for the card.

So now I don't know what is or was going on. Granted, that was a small playing session, but for the past week I couldn't go 50 yards without the game crashing.

I'm wondering if it did have something to do with Steam crapping out somehow, that issues seems to have been resolved this evening - either on my end or theirs or both - and since I stopped having problems with that, no game crashes either.

Now I think I'll put back the newer mods I removed and see what happens. :hmmm:

[frau kaleun]

Just played for about two hours straight with all mods enabled, except one that I wasn't sure I wanted anyway - and removing it hadn't solved the problem before so I don't think that was the culprit. But I've gone from Whiterun to Solitude (on foot) with quite a lot happening on the way and NO CRASHES.

I swear I don't know what else to think, except that all the other stuff I looked at was a series of false leads and suspicions and it all just had something to do with Steam crapping out constantly for some reason. Altho why that would lead to a system crash and not just the game crashing to desktop, I don't know.

I'm completely stumped, but as long as things are running fine I guess I won't worry about it until if and when the problem repeats or something else goes wrong. :hmmm:

[Red October1984]

I've had them in SH3 from a very very heavily modded installation.

It was an easy fix for me. :hmmm:

[Task Force]

Whats your hardware setup, and what does the BSOD say?

Its normal for your CPU frequency to jump around as the processor load increases or decreases.

[Skybird]

Just have had serious troubles myself, ended up with replacing three hardware components just to get rid of one or two broken, could not nail it down any other way. System newly installed with gfx card, HD and monitor replaced. So - I feel with you, Fräulein.

In your case, check the obvious things first. Manually remove nVidia driver (the automatic installation of other drivers over the installed ones, as is saisd to be possible nowadays, ALWAYS leaves artifacts on my rig that start to interfwere with the new one), then install a new one. Very solid builds are 275.xx and - I'm just using it for days, but no probs so far - 214.xx.

If possible, reset your mainboard.

Check that dust flocks are not shortcutting something, mainboard circuits or USB plugs.

How old is the PSU, and is the output adequate for the gfx you use? You want to have some reserve there even under maximum stress. PSUs wear out over the years. I had to replace mine some years ago - that silenced a whole bag of gremlins haunting my rig back then.

How old is your HD? It also wears out. Try with a different one. Sorry, that means new installation or copying a safe image. You could use an old one with an already existing old installation and see if the problem continues to show up.

Replace the gfx, if possible.

Have a clean installation or image copied over. Check BIOS settings to be back to default, you can change them later.

Unplug all cables and connectors and replug them. Make sure you are free of static electricity when doing so. The resetting of the mainboard should be done after that, to be sure.

If none of this helps, then I fear the chances are raising that there is trouble with the mainboard itself - if for no other reasons than that not many other components are left that could have broken down. You could check the RAM bars one by one to see if one of them is faulty, but I doubt it. You just moved to a new house, boxes and things may have gotten some kicks during that. Could be a micro-fraction on the mainboard's circuits, for example, changing temperatures constantly changing the width of the breach, so sometimes the contact is made, sometimes not.

It'S a PITA trying to nail down the root of such unspecific problems, I just went through the whole dance, and it costed me time and nerves. Good luck!

P.S. Your router, modem, whatever you have, working fine?

[frau kaleun]

Going from memory, as I'm not at home:

PSU is 750W so I don't think it's a power supply issue unless the PSU is failing.

GPU is a 2GB Radeon 6950 so it should be able to handle quite a bit, and has, with no issues up to now and no changes to the game before the problem started - so again, unless the hardware is outright failing, it shouldn't be that. It's the newest hardware on the system, only about a year old.

The rest of the rig was built from scratch two years ago and all relevant internal hardware was bought new at that time... I think the only things I kept from the old set up were an external backup drive and possibly a DVD drive. I checked already and have the latest BIOS stuff, no updates available for mobo or chipset. I did make a couple small changes to the BIOS setup to see if that made a difference but it didn't so I changed it all back since it had been fine for two years up to now.

I check the inside periodically to blow out any dust (and there usually isn't much) and make sure all the fans are running properly; I've got mesh screens over all the intake/exhaust openings and keep those pretty clean as well. And when I was monitoring temps last night, I got no red flags there even when the game was up and running in fullscreen with all my desired mods in place.

Anyway - I played for two hours with no problems, and prior to that couldn't play for two minutes without a BSOD since the weekend. If I don't have any more problems, I'm not gonna worry about it.

[Arclight]

We're talking Windows 7 right?

I've had some issues in the past with games having trouble with the fact I have 2 active sound cards. It was a particular problem early on in Win7's introduction, but it cleared as drivers improved. If it's Win8 you're using it might well be a driver problem.

If it is a software problem, I'd say it has to be something low-level. Even then, at least on Win7, it's more likely to just have the driver crash than the entire system. :hmmm:

[frau kaleun]

Yeah, Windows 7.

The closest I came to finding a possible source with regard to video drivers was a number of posts/solutions in tech forums about one of the errors I kept seeing, apparently to do with versions 4.01, 4.1, and 4.2 of something associated with ATI's graphics cards and software. I kept getting errors saying those services had shut down due to the necessary files not being found, according to the stuff I found v4.01 is an outdated relic and shouldn't be there or be running any more after updates to the gfx drivers but registry entries don't get deleted when they update (despite doing a full uninstall of old software, apparently) and it remains as a "device" in Device Manager and the people reporting the error were also having numerous BSODs, particularly when running fullscreen apps.

I followed the instructions to remove the relevant references to it but that didn't SEEM to have any effect. Of course that was before I started updating/reverting the GPU software in its entirety trying to see if there was ANY version, at all, that would make the problem go away - assuming gfx drivers were the cause of it.

Then I started getting notices about a possible Java exploit being found and deleted, and uninstalled/updated/reinstalled Java just because I didn't know what that might have to do with anything, then I ran virus and malware scans and found nothing, then I noticed Steam wouldn't launch at all, then that problem got resolved and since then everything's fine.

So, to recap, I had a problem and now it's gone and I don't know why I had it or why it went away. :O:

[Kaleun]

Do you have an Asus sound card?? if you do, make sure the DSP mode in the Audio software isn't set to GX - its Asus' emulation of EAX and causes loads of crashes in games.

[frau kaleun]

Do you have an Asus sound card?? if you do, make sure the DSP mode in the Audio software isn't set to GX - its Asus' emulation of EAX and causes loads of crashes in games.

Yes, I do, and changing that setting may be one of the things I did, because I did go in and check the settings since they've given me odd problems before. Altho I think I usually have it set on the Music or Gaming button and if I'm happy with the sound I'm getting I don't ever go in and change anything, ever, mostly due to the fact that it usually results in the aforementioned odd problems.

I did that early on in the process of looking for culprits, though, so I dunno. But honestly I could swear there've been times when I had to go in and reset things in there that got fouled up without me ever touching them... that card gave me fits for a while when I first got it. Another reason why I rarely mess with the settings.

[frau kaleun]

GAAAAAAAH. :/\\!!

After playing about three hours last night with no problems, after about an hour tonight the game started crashing again. Sometimes it just crashes to desktop, sometimes the whole screen just goes black and the whole system reboots.

No BSODs so nothing to check there and the Events log just shows the same errors I was getting before, all of which I've already tried (and apparently failed) to remedy. The AODDriver4.01 etc. stuff is all back in Device Manager and the registry so I'm wondering if it's stuff that gets installed when you install the gfx drivers regardless of what version you have. Since I installed those clean and fresh, you'd think I wouldn't be getting errors about files not being found but... there they are. I don't even know if that's what's causing the problem.

I'm getting back to the notion of just reinstalling Windows and everything else onto a reformatted hard drive to see what happens. I've checked the hardware temps over the course of the evening and there still don't seem to be any red flags there, I've got the case open and all fans are running and I can hear them speeding up properly when the game is loaded. Can't find any loose connections anywhere.

[frau kaleun]

Okay so I went into the software for the soundcard and I SWEAR it looks like the settings have changed since I looked at it the last time. Tinkered with that and with the Windows config for playback devices to get it back to what I think it was when everything was working okay. We'll see what happens but I'm not getting my hopes up. :-?

Edit: Aaaaaand we have my first BSOD in two days. At least now I've got something to interpret the dump file.

[Arclight]

Considering the other issues... Might try a reinstall. I'd say it's just mod soup or driver crashing (pushing that engine too far perhaps, with the added mods) but if the issues extend outside the game that doesn't really explain it.

In terms of actual hardware failing, my first guess would be the HD. Graphics card issues tend to result in a corrupted image, failing CPU and RAM tend to affect boot as well (failed boot > beeps error code).


Just taking the thing apart and putting it back together can magically fix things as well. Do some cleaning while you're in there. Just reseating the RAM has "fixed" many a system (though in that case they would generally be angrily beeping a code at you).

[frau kaleun]

The file that got pegged as the likeliest culprit is afd.sys, which appears to be used by a wide variety of devices. A lot of the support stuff online links related crashes to outdated firmware for networking devices, and there is an update for my wireless router so I'm taking care of that right now. Windows searched and said the driver for the network adapter on the 'puter was already up to date.

I went into services.msc after a successful reboot and tried to see if the associated service for that driver is starting up and running with the OS, but I'm not sure what the name of the service would be or if there would even be one to look for. Something to do with Winsock? I dunno. Also checking out some of the services that show up as totally disabled but as far as I can tell they are all things that I don't use or need and have never enabled for that reason, stuff for SmartCard readers and people running web servers.

But I also think the reinstall is probably a good idea at this point. I have changed so many things, including tinkering with the registry, and used System Restore a couple times, and done so much stuff that I'm starting to lose track of what I did and when and whether or not I undid it (if that was even possible) after it didn't have any effect. And I've also just this evening had the computer crash (altho not to BSOD) while the game was NOT running which seems to indicate that the problem is not with the game/mod files, but something that is exacerbated by me running the game. Or else I've been running the game so much trying to recreate the problem that a crash I would have had anyway happens when it's loaded and is much worse because of that.

If I do a complete reinstall and still have problems then I might have to accept that it's hardware, but you are right that sometimes just getting in there and resetting stuff is a good idea. Altho I agree that if it were the GPU I would probably be seeing lag and/or a degradation of gfx quality somewhere, which isn't happening. Everything runs and looks great right up until the moment the whole system goes down.

[frau kaleun]

Update: I did end up completely wiping my boot drive (and my "gaming" drive, just in case) and reinstalling everything from the OS on up. Also opened the case and checked connections and gave everything a good dust-off, altho there really wasn't much to clean off. I also removed the heatsink/fan from the CPU and cleaned that and put new thermal paste down to reseat it.

Anyhoo what with one thing and another (not to mention all the hours and hours it took to get everything reinstalled) I didn't get a chance to play the game at all until this past weekend, but I've played several times - in one instance for 4-5 hours straight - without any issues at all.

I'm still thinking it was an issue with the graphics drivers not updating/uninstalling properly, as I had THREE entries in the registry for three different versions of the same graphics driver. I think they even reappeared after I tried to manually delete them so something there just wasn't right. After the clean reinstall, there's only one entry for the current and correct version.

But whatevs, everything's running faster and cleaner now all around and Skyrim isn't crashing my whole system so I'm happy. :yeah:

[Skybird]

GFX drivers are a very dubious bunch of clowns. Although it is said that you can trust nowadaysw (in case of nVidia drivers) to just install one version over the next and the installation taking care of everything necessary, I found this to be wrong on several occasions. So, I ALWAYS manually delete the old driver before installing another version. Since system restore also never has earned my trust, but failed almost every time I ever cared to try it, it is no option either.

Another good advice is to stick with the version that works stable for you and your needs, it does not matter if you use a version that is two years old. If it works for your needs and your stuff, then it works for your needs and stuff. I think "updating" gfx drivers never has solved any issue for me that I ever might have had. And often trying out a new driver version just introduced new problems to me, leading me to moving back to the former version again.

Some things just need to be done manually, the hard way. That might be old-fashioned - but in case of gfx drivers it is the only thing that works for me, since very long time.

[frau kaleun]

GFX drivers are a very dubious bunch of clowns. Although it is said that you can trust nowadaysw (in case of nVidia drivers) to just install one version over the next and the installation taking care of everything necessary, I found this to be wrong on several occasions. So, I ALWAYS manually delete the old driver before installing another version. Since system restore also never has earned my trust, but failed almost every time I ever cared to try it, it is no option either.

Another good advice is to stick with the version that works stable for you and your needs, it does not matter if you use a version that is two years old. If it works for your needs and your stuff, then it works for your needs and stuff. I think "updating" gfx drivers never has solved any issue for me that I ever might have had. And often trying out a new driver version just introduced new problems to me, leading me to moving back to the former version again.

Some things just need to be done manually, the hard way. That might be old-fashioned - but in case of gfx drivers it is the only thing that works for me, since very long time.

Very true and typically I ignore all notices to update gfx drivers as long as everything is working okay. About the only time I update them is if I'm having problems or if I install a completely new card - and I always completely uninstall what I've got before installing the new software, but as you say it seems like the "normal" way of doing that is insufficient sometimes. There were obviously traces of old drivers on my system and I think Windows was being led to look for files that were outdated and/or no longer there, because that was the continual message showing up in the error logs - that some service related to the gfx was looking for a file and not finding it and shutting down as a result.

When I started over from scratch this time I used the drivers on the disc that came with this card and I'm not going to experiment with anything different unless I start having issues again. When I was online looking for solutions I did see something about a "cleaner" program that was supposed to *completely* remove all traces of ATI gfx software from your system prior to updating or reinstalling... I didn't look into it as I'd already pretty much resigned myself to wiping everything and working up from the OS but I will definitely keep that idea in mind for the future rather than relying on the uninstall options that come from ATI or Windows itself.

[NeonSamurai]

Honestly it is always recommendable to reinstall the os when changing major components on one's computer. Heck I've had windows go completely berserk and refuse to boot without BSODing almost immediately, due to a straight up board swap, even though it was the exact same model and revision number as the previous board (an identical board). Plus as mentioned by others, drivers can be rather temperamental just on their own.

[frau kaleun]

Well, it has been running fine since the reinstall. I took a new character all the way to level 60-something with no crashes, using all the same mods so it definitely wasn't a mod issue or overloading the graphics card with hi-res textures or anything. I'm assuming it was the problem with the residue of old gfx drivers on my system, that seems to have been the most likely culprit.

[Wolferz]

Better late than never.
It's always a good idea to renew your OS install when you start noticing gremlins interrupting your fav game. Windows OS's are notorious when they get a little aged.
I always try to follow a bi-yearly OS reinstall schedule to pre-empt the shenanigans before they get started. Because once they do get started, they can begin to hammer your hardware. Like the little Gremlin in the Bugs Bunny cartoons. The one who wanted to hammer the bombs.:huh:

When I began reading this thread, I knew Frau K would apply all the proper logic in order to find the solution.:up: The only mistake I saw was the non-use of an engineering notebook to keep track of what had been tried, changed, changed back, tried again, changed again, changed back again and POOF! Hang it all I'm reinstalling EVERYTHING!:03:
Well done me little Skyrim junkie.:arrgh!::yeah: