View Full Version : CMO review at SimHQ
A new review for CMO has been posted to SimHQ.
http://www.simhq.com/air-combat/command-modern-air-naval-operations-review.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zoK0L3wprw
BadKarma1001
09-30-13, 12:26 AM
Ah well since the reviewer and the developers seem to had their problems back in their Harpoon modders days i have to ask myself how unbiased this review really is?
http://www.warfaresims.com/index.php?s=herman
Ah well since the reviewer and the developers seem to had their problems back in their Harpoon modders days i have to ask myself how unbiased this review really is?
http://www.warfaresims.com/index.php?s=herman
About as unbiased as the HHQ page you link, they are far from innocent and unbiased either.
Herr-Berbunch
09-30-13, 08:55 AM
A new review for CMO has been posted to SimHQ.
http://www.simhq.com/air-combat/command-modern-air-naval-operations-review.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zoK0L3wprw
Your first link leads to the wonderful 404. Try http://www.simhq.com/naval-combat/command-modern-air-naval-operations-preview.html although it is the beta.
Your second link is private, so I for one can't see it. :-?
biosthetique
09-30-13, 09:34 AM
SimHQ is mainly about car races sims, flight sims, FPS, some Tanks sims. They are not a group about Naval Simulation. Look at their forum and you will see what is paramount for them.
BadKarma1001
09-30-13, 09:38 AM
About as unbiased as the HHQ page you link, they are far from innocent and unbiased either.
Didnīt said they are but since these guys defiantly have a history imho it was not the best choice for a reviewer!
Ah well since the reviewer and the developers seem to had their problems back in their Harpoon modders days i have to ask myself how unbiased this review really is?
If you find an inaccuracy or falsehood within the review, please report it. I am more than happy to provide clarification on any concerns.
For example:
Actually, I can point to one glaring error that totally unhinges the entire review:
"Most displays such as Weapons, Sensors, and Contacts can only be activated via the mouse-click on a button."
should read:
"Most displays such as Damage Control and Contacts can only be activated via the mouse-click on a button."
:arrgh!:
BadKarma1001
10-01-13, 12:14 AM
About as unbiased as the HHQ page you link, they are far from innocent and unbiased either.
If you find an inaccuracy or falsehood within the review, please report it. I am more than happy to provide clarification on any concerns.
For example:
Actually, I can point to one glaring error that totally unhinges the entire review:
"Most displays such as Weapons, Sensors, and Contacts can only be activated via the mouse-click on a button."
should read:
"Most displays such as Damage Control and Contacts can only be activated via the mouse-click on a button."
:arrgh!:
Is the game flawless? No, of course itīs not! Is it cluncky at some parts? For sure it is!
It has afaik a 3 man dev team for gods sake!
Is it overpriced? I would say yes and i am 100% sure the devs would do better if they had another publisher but i bit the bullet since there are no alternatives for a game with this background and scale! Even not Harpoon, but that is mho.
All i am saying is that someone who has a tarnished past with the devs should not do a review on a site like simhq! Itīs like you had a run in with a guy in the past and it turns out heīs the new building inspector for your house! There will always be the question, is he an hardass to anyone or just to me because of the past!
My past is untarnished, so I had no problem writing the review for SimHQ or anyone else.
I'll say it, again. If you have found an inaccuracy within the review, please feel free to point it out.
BadKarma1001
10-01-13, 11:04 AM
My past is untarnished, so I had no problem writing the review for SimHQ or anyone else.
Imho the point is not if you made valid points, i am sure there where/are the point is you shouldnīt have done the review in the first place because of the history you have with the devs! I bet you didnīt had a problem reviewing the game!:hmph:
Imho the point is not if you made valid points, i am sure there where/are the point is you shouldnīt have done the review in the first place because of the history you have with the devs! I bet you didnīt had a problem reviewing the game!:hmph:
I did not intend to review the game. However, I kept getting requests from people for my opinion. I finally relented and decided that if I was going to help one person, I may as well try to help them all, at the same time.
Now, if the fact that I knew the developers beforehand is reason to recuse myself from a review, that would be too restrictive. The naval wargame community is generally small and I have probably either been in contact with or played matches against many of them or played. The fact that I am engaged and knowledgeable is the very reason folks want my opinion. You could prefer to get medical advice from your lawyer in order to avoid any possible conflict but, would you trust it?
BadKarma1001
10-01-13, 03:09 PM
You could prefer to get medical advice from your lawyer in order to avoid any possible conflict but, would you trust it?
I prefer my building inspector example!:03:
Your first link leads to the wonderful 404. Try http://www.simhq.com/naval-combat/command-modern-air-naval-operations-preview.html although it is the beta.
Your second link is private, so I for one can't see it. :-?
A new review for CMO has been posted to SimHQ.
http://www.simhq.com/air-combat/command-modern-air-naval-operations-review.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zoK0L3wprw
The review has been re-posted and, except for normal editorial amendments, remains unchanged.
Long time lurker but first time poster. Reading all this talk I just had to say something as there seems to be a crusade against CMANO. I haven't played it yet but from reading up on it it feels like a clear winner over the other games of this type.
Someone I know at Sim HQ implied that when they agreed to have a review written it was by someone else. I get the feeling they didn't notice it was signed by Herman before it was published and by the time they saw the reaction they were in a difficult position. They look like they are reacting to pressure if they remove it even if they had realised their mistake.
Maybe this is incorrect though so Herman can you clarify if you were the one who contacted Sim HQ and offered to do a review and they were aware you were involved or did you have someone else act as an intermediary? I always like to hear both sides of the story though so Herman do you feel you have been completely open and honest with everyone at Sim HQ?
I worry that Herman & Vincenzo, whilst claiming not to, do have their own agenda. I suspect they see CMANO as a threat. They love making mods for Harpoon and are unable to edit the DB in CMANO. I get the feeling they think if CMANO succeeds they'll have nobody left to make mods for.
They may have nothing to gain from a monetary point of view but do they have a vested interest in preventing CMANO succeeding and taking people away from their Harpoon DB, scenarios and mods? You make your own decision. I saw arguments like this tear the Harpoon community apart and fear it will happen again.
This is a small hobby so why the need to destroy one of the very few games of this type. I have seen Herman post links to his review everywhere he can and claim he is being censored. I see claims from Vincenzo that Matrix doesn't want people to see the real review, only previews, implying the game is bad. Did Matrix ask Sim HQ to remove the review - I don't know. I don't really care. I do care that there is a small subset of people who, for reasons I cannot fully comprehend, are trying to destroy the best chance of a healthy ongoing future for our hobby.
One last question Herman - what is the best game of this type in your opinion? You are very clear in your criticism but which game wins and why? I'm sure others would be interested. You are very good at specific details so I'd be interested in specific details on what your favourite game is.
Henrik M
biosthetique
10-02-13, 06:00 PM
Gee!...Do you have a conspiracy theory HM1969?
I bought the game despite the price and played it and am still playing it.
There is a lot of room for improvement.
One of my complaint, is the castrated behaviors of MK 48 ADCAP which distance has been cut from 27nm to 6 nm pretexting, one type of engagement, lack of intelligence from the player, hence, the game is thinking for him. The same inaccuracy was in Harpoon too.
For that price of the game, I am not happy about it!
But I don't see a conspiracy!....Look at that price, the game better be perfect.
Did you buy it?...Are you playing it?
Maybe this is incorrect though so Herman can you clarify if you were the one who contacted Sim HQ and offered to do a review and they were aware you were involved or did you have someone else act as an intermediary? I always like to hear both sides of the story though so Herman do you feel you have been completely open and honest with everyone at Sim HQ?
I was in contact with SimHQ under my real name at all times.
I worry that Herman & Vincenzo, whilst claiming not to, do have their own agenda. I suspect they see CMANO as a threat. They love making mods for Harpoon and are unable to edit the DB in CMANO. I get the feeling they think if CMANO succeeds they'll have nobody left to make mods for.
The premise is illogical. Any mod relies upon a game. There is absolutely no economic benefit from a mod and neither of us has any official connection to the game's owners. In fact, Vincenzo pays for a support site out of his own pocket and asks for nothing in return. The site is open for all to use and will support any game (including MNO). Anyone wanting to post files there are welcome to do so.
Anyone who presumes that either Vincenzo or I would wish ill upon another has not been reading closely. We are constantly helping folks build databases and scenarios. I went to help the Colombian Navy with nothing more than a request to, 'Please come.' The underlying motto remains: "Help All Who Ask". I had no intention of writing a review, but only did so after getting numerous requests for one. I decided to help them all instead of one person at a time.
They may have nothing to gain from a monetary point of view but do they have a vested interest in preventing CMANO succeeding and taking people away from their Harpoon DB, scenarios and mods? You make your own decision. I saw arguments like this tear the Harpoon community apart and fear it will happen again.
Again, the premise is illogical. The success or failure of one game has no bearing upon another. However, the conduct of the developers in the various fora should give users cause for concern. Any criticism or dissenting opinion is quickly met with an accusation of the reporter somehow being either Vincenzo or Herman i.e. "Hi Herman!" For the record, I am Spartacus. :-) The success or failure of the game rests upon the developers' ability to act responsibly; something not exemplified by their reaction to this review. Calling their critics Nazis (and worse) is not indicative of professionals.
One last question Herman - what is the best game of this type in your opinion? You are very clear in your criticism but which game wins and why? I'm sure others would be interested. You are very good at specific details so I'd be interested in specific details on what your favourite game is.
This game has potential. Anyone reading the review will see that reported. It is just very unpolished and user-unfriendly in its current state. This is poor design as opposed to the bugginess of Harpoon ANW.
An MNO player (who had never played Harpoon) dropped in on one of our MP sessions and just watched us play. He was simply agog at how fast and quickly we were able to move things, see things, find things, track things, add things, etc. He kept asking, "How are you doing THAT so quickly?" I didn't even have to play MNO to know that they were in trouble. If a twenty-yr. old game can do anything better than your new one, the problem does not lie with the older game.
Harpoon ANW is riddled with bugs, but that does not mean it doesn't have a whole lotta good ideas. MNO duplicated a lot of the functions and were given credit for doing so in the review. IMO, they need to duplicate a whole lot more of the good ideas instead of just trying to shoe-horn them into the present game.
I want to play MNO more. Unfortunately, I find it a chore to play instead of a pleasure.
You keep using the term illogical which explains everything that has happened in Harpoon community. Just because it is illogical doesn't mean it isn't happening.
You Also keep stating that you have nothing to gain financially and this means you have no vested interest. As I explained your interest is not financial but based on 20 years investment in the Harpoon system. This kind of vested interest is far more personal. Harpoon seems to be your entire life based on the amount of time you put in to it.
I still am of the opinion you want the game to fail because you do not want to lose your little empire and see it crumbling away. Quite frankly I do not believe you when you say you have nothing to lose. If you didn't you would not be pursuing this so vigorously.
Yes the devs did react badly when they first heard about your review and there were some knee jerk reactions which they seem to reject. Since then though they have been nothing but professional ignoring the stream of attacks fro some quarters. While I think their comments were wrong I can see how it happened when they were so invested.
On your comments about a 20 year old UI I have an alternative interpretation. Maybe, just maybe, the UI you have been using every day for 20 years is so completely 2nd nature to you that any other UI is hard to get to grips with. That doesn't make the new UI bad - that makes you inflexible.
On your comments about which is the best game I'm still unclear. You are very good at avoiding giving a hard answer so that you can't be held accountable for it later.
So maybe it is you who is the problem and not the game ;)
As I said I have not played it yet but the attitude I see here makes me sick for the developers who have out years of work in to this labor of love. Maybe I am wrong and it's all conspiracy but enough of this just looks wrong to me to make me think at least some of this doesn't add up as you suggest.
Frankly, I do not understand this heated debate about a review. A review is a review and always reflect the author's opinion - so it is never neutral.
Look at the reviews of other games...you often find a rating range between 50 and 90 %...even for universal acclaimed 'good' games.
I've read his review and you can argue that he viewed the game with a bit of negative attitude but I would not consider it as unfair.
The game cannot 'fail' since the developers have stated that they are not involved to make money. Therefore, no definition of failure is possible. Even if the game makes no money, they will continue.
And I see your agenda here. It isn't to see a response to an answer, but to find something to which I can somehow be held 'accountable'.
So maybe it is you who is the problem and not the review. ;)
Since you are unclear, I'll repeat the answer. Harpoon is a good design that is plagued with poor programming, QA, and bugs. MNO is more functional, but has made some poor design decisions. When asked about games, I do not pick one over another. I point out the good and bad of each and allow everyone to make their own decision. I deal in facts and not innuendo.
biosthetique
10-03-13, 12:30 PM
@HM1969:
I did not read the Herman's review. But with you trial of intention, you seem suspect of a cover up, and I have re-installed Larry Bond's HARPOON Ultimate edition on my computer, and will indulge myself.
And if I need support, I will be glad to ask Herman's help to your great dismay!
So long bilge rat!
It's not about the review it's about the clear attempt to blacken the developers name. He must have known the effect having him writs a review would have on them. He set the trap and waited for them to react and he assumed they self destruct and destroy their own community in the process.
When googling for other info on command I found Herman posting his review claiming some cover up on a Greek military site of all places. Does that sound rational and reasonable. All because a developer doesn't want a link to his review on their site . Hardly surprising considering the history. Somehow he's managed to convince people he's the victim of a corporate coverup.
Herman cleverly refuses to answer direct questions and gives carefully worded vague answers. He is clearly intelligent. Very intelligent. It's a shame the effort and ability is not put to something constructive.
He won't say which game he thinks is best for fear of being held accountable for his views. Have the guts to say what you really think Herman and stop hiding behind clever words!
biosthetique
10-04-13, 11:27 AM
Excellent review Herman, as it is a strong CAVEAT EMPTOR, yet necessary for a $108,00 game.
I should have read it earlier, but with all the negative noise around it, it kept me away from it!...
I am glad I finally read it after returning the game, otherwise they would have blamed it on you!
Some people read the review and hate it (and still buy the game).
http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=587289&pg=1#642615
Currently, the video has as many Dislike votes as Like votes. That is about as fair as one can expect. :up:
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