Donation: paypal troubles (fixed)

[Skybird]

Wanted to do my donation part, using a paypal account, the same like the past two years, its my friend's, since I have cancelled mine some time ago.

But when hitting the button, we found that suddenly Paypal now demands that a credit card is being registered.

He/me never saw that before. What nonsense is this? People have paypal accounts in order to not having to send credit card info and using credit cards at all. That's the mere purpose of paypal!

There is a bank account already linked to that paypal account obviously, why is that not good enough anymore, why must the payment done via a separate credit card?

This stinks. Somebody wants to collect more credit card infos, or what? Not you Neal, I know. But paypal's policy change stinks.

[Skybird]

It worked smooth with this guy's paypal the past two years. We also just shifted ten cents to the account of his brother for testing, no credit card needed. Trying subsim again confronts us again with a message that for this transaction, a credit card must be added to the paypal account, and that "Lastschriftverfahren" for this transaction is unavailable.

You do not need Paypal if you must use credit card payment anyway.

[Skybird]

:shifty: Friend is gone and I googled, found out that the problem obviously is around since some time now, a policy change that paypal has started to implement since 2011, and that just was not that obvious until now becasue the number of transaction and custoimers getting this treatement was intially small, but has constantly grown. At ebay people complain that almost none of their trascaciton works without credit card infos added to their paypal accounts anymore, and that paypal does transactions only via these credit cards for them.

I'm sure they jhave very many and very sensible excuses for it. But it is a torpedoing of the very purpose why paypal initally was successful in getting introduced to the market. You do not need paypal at all if you nevertheless have the transaction done via credit card. Why then adding it to paypal, why not skipping paypal and do it straight via credit card all the way? Or do they have a hidden alliance with credit card companies and wanting to generate income for them by forcing people to run via their credit cards nevertheless?

Neal, I'm still wondering why you do not run a separate, dedicated bank account for subsim-related things. Is thgat so expensive in the US? Ove rhere it costs me 30 some bucks poer year. With other banks it could have had even cheaper. That way, people could directly do transactions from their banking account to yours. Simple. Straight. Works since many decades. No internet-related concerns regarding security. No need to place personal sensitive data on more servers, and credit card info, and so on.

I have given up my credit card also. A life without these internet and plastic things is possible. :yep: In stores, I pay cash, almost never via my bank card.

I have had paypal, then cancelled it during the Assange incident in protest, when paypal and other companies obeyed to US pressure and blocked Assange'S account. Last year I shortly had activated it again, when the hunger to buy a sim was greater than reason, but I regretted that when getting spam email adverts en masse which I traced back to the senders and learned that I got them due to my paypal account. I cancelled it again, and deleted it completely, and this time I have no intention to go back to them a third time.

I'll ask for my fathers credit card again to get your case done. But for that there must be an option to donate via credit card.

Didn'T know that donating could become so complicated.

[Jimbuna]

Policy changes were made last year IIRC Sky

My own account is registered to a bank account I use solely for Paypal transactions and they have a credit card number they will fall back on if there were insufficient funds in the bank account to cover said transaction.

A small tip you may already be aware of: When sending money, use the 'gift' option and the recipient will receive the full amount without any percentage being taken by Paypal.

[Betonov]

If you can wire it into my bank account, I could send Neal the donation in your name.
No charge

[Skybird]

Policy changes were made last year IIRC Sky

My own account is registered to a bank account I use solely for Paypal transactions and they have a credit card number they will fall back on if there were insufficient funds in the bank account to cover said transaction.

You misunderstand the problem. Of course, every paypal account has a bank account linked to it. But Paypal now explicitly refuses to use this for transactions. I had it that way in the past: bank account was sufficient to use paypal for all kinds of transactions. My friend has a bank account linked to his paypal as well, and it worked in the past. I think you cannot even log a personalised paypal account without a banking acount entered.

I have used my friends account for DCL buys for Skyrim - there it worked. For SBP updates, I used the credit card of my father the last times. But today, Paypal sent a message saying that they do not do transactions via that banking acount, but that linking a credit card to the profile which then will be used for the transaction, is mandatory. How much money your regular bank account holds, is irrelevant.

Most people have used paypal to avoid the need to reveal their credit card data, and some, minors, also did not have credit cards. Paypal came in where credit cards were not agreed to, or for other reasons were no option. Now Paypal depends on credit cards!? In the German ebay forum for exmaple IO read many people commenting that since two years they have not been able to make any buy with paypal without credit card linked to the pp account.

[Skybird]

If you can wire it into my bank account, I could send Neal the donation in your name.
No charge

It would be more logical if Neal then gives me his bank account, and I transfer it directly from mine: of course I have a regular bank account, I'm not living in a cave. No paypal and credit cards needed for that straight transfer.

Heck, it worked that way for how many decades...?

I told my buddy to charge his paypal account, and then send that from his to subsim'S pp acount, as describe don the donation page.

That charging will take two days, PP says. :dead:

And we still cannot say if for that direct pp-to-pp transaction a credit card linked to the profile for principle reasons and terms will be demanded or not.

Idiotic this all is. PP claims it is for security, that is the modern beats-everything overkill rhetorical argument of course: its for "security"!. In how far it improves security if a credit card is used instead of a bank account, and that additional sensitive data stored on foreign servers, they did not explain.

On a sidenote, my father wants to give up his credit card also, he does not need it. That means a problem for me: how to pay those precious SBP updates in the future then? :o :timeout:

[Jimbuna]

That's is very strange then because I made a purchase yesterday evening and the transaction went smoothly.

[Skybird]

Should I make a screenshot? I'll do.

Try your transaction with the Subsim donation.

[Betonov]

How about those prepaid debit cards. I got Visa Electron just for the Paypal payments.
It's not linked to your bank account and if hacked can't steal more than what you got on it

[Jimbuna]

Should I make a screenshot? I'll do.

Try your transaction with the Subsim donation.

A bit late for that if you look below my avatar.

My next ebay purchase is due in 1day 6hrs (hopefully).

It definitely worked last night though.

[Feuer Frei!]

@Jim:

so this is how you got to 87k posts :haha::O:

[Jimbuna]

@Jim:

so this is how you got to 87k posts :haha::O:

Bloody server sticking...deleting now :)

[Skybird]

Jim, I got that reply of yours displayed 22 times in sequence - from page 1 to page 3. You sure your transactions landed where they should? :D

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6554/w510.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/w510.jpg/)

[Jimbuna]

Should I make a screenshot? I'll do.

Try your transaction with the Subsim donation.

A bit late for that if you look below my avatar.

My next ebay purchase is due in 1day 6hrs (hopefully).

It definitely worked last night though.

[Jimbuna]

Jim, I got that reply of yours displayed 22 times in sequence - from page 1 to page 3. You sure your transactions landed where they should? :D



LOL :)

I reckon the server slowed right down so I clicked send a few times :oops:

:/\\!!

[Herr-Berbunch]

You're like my wife - if it doesn't do it straight away she just keep clicking until it does and then suffers the consequences. :O:

[Jimbuna]

The internet seems to be a bit sluggish today as well despite the fact my speed tests show no deterioration in supply :hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

@Jim:

so this is how you got to 87k posts :haha::O:


:haha:

[Skybird]

I'm really getting it today. :/\\!! First Paypal, now Visa again. :arrgh!:

The new copy of the Visa card of my father, handed out just a quarter of a year ago or so, that I use to supply some apps from Google Playstore to my tablet, now also makes trouble again. Wanted to buy a little astronomy app, had the card data from earlier buys already on their server - and they tell me the card is invalid (which is nonsense, btw.)

Two months ago, Google has blocked the card and needed me adressing their extremely customer-avoiding "customer service" that made me typing in race-track-patterns to finally made them unlock it again. The card according to the bank was 100% okay. Of course it was.

I can clearly remember times when these kind of things where running easy, and straight.

:arrgh!:

Maybe it is the revenge of the NSA. They are bringing down my "conspiratory network".

And maybe I shall vote NSA on German national elections next week. They seem to be the only ones really showing interest for me. :88)

:/\\!!

[kranz]

My 2 cents:

2 years ago I bought a 3-month membership on some 3D stuff website, paid with paypal - no problems.

A year ago I tried to buy the same sort of membership - the payment was declined because of the reason mentioned in the OP.
I e-mailed paypal asking wtf. I was told that I should contact the owner of the site I was trying to get the membership rather than paypal because it was the owner/moderator w/e who decided on how transactions were accepted.
I e-mailed them and they confirmed what paypal consultant had said.
They (not paypal) changed the way you could pay for the membership. Only linked cards were allowed.

As someone above said - linked credit cards are necessary when you buy something which requires regular fees. If you run out of your paypal money, it will suck from your credit card.
But that's not paypal's choice - you as a web master decides which payments are accepted.

[Nippelspanner]

I wanted to donate for Subsim a few month ago and hit the same problem, Credit Card required. Paypal is funny sometimes...

[Skybird]

:D Ahhh! Didn't I say its the NSA?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-the-nsa-spies-on-international-bank-transactions-a-922430.html

That's why they want everybody's credit cards, and want everybody using credit cards. Easier to track. :up:

If you are a tourist or visitor to the US, you must even file in your credit card data that you n ever used for transaction with the Us, and will not take with you and thus do not use there. One of the many, many personal data they demand from you when you travel into the US. If you get send to prison by a German court, far less personal data about you are recorded in files, than when you visit the US.

Matti does not wish to deal with the paypal issue any longer. I cannot criticise him for that, why should he care for it at all if it is my business. So, no donations from me. He used his paypal this morning, btw, for a direct debiting process like usual, and it worked. Without a credit card filed into his account.

Neal, you may want to check your paypal procedure settings. That the direct debit processing is not allowed from here to your paypal account definitely is no general paypal policy setting (though it spreads) affecting all paypal transactions, but affects only certain types and cases, it must be something related to your account therefore.

[Skybird]

I wanted to donate for Subsim a few month ago and hit the same problem, Credit Card required. Paypal is funny sometimes...
Ah?! Hear hear.

[RickC Sniper]

Am not sure it could matter, but perhaps this was caused by a donation to Subsim being changed to a "subscription" which automatically gets billed annually unless you cancel it.

Could this be the cause?

[Mr Quatro]

Does subsim have snail mail?

Someone charged two apple computers to my visa ... but thank god I didn't have enough funds to cover them :o

[Dowly]

Does subsim have snail mail?

Yup,

Neal Stevens, Subsim
5108 Woodville Lane
Pearland, TX 77584

Yes, check or cash can be mailed to the address above. Be sure to include your forum nickname, so I can upgrade your account.

[kranz]

Am not sure it could matter, but perhaps this was caused by a donation to Subsim being changed to a "subscription" which automatically gets billed annually unless you cancel it.

Could this be the cause?

this is the cause (as I explained in my post above) but I bet we will have at least 4-5 more people blaming paypal rather than subsim for not being able to donate.

[Onkel Neal]

I will have to check with Paypal, if that is the case, I can add a non-subscription button too. The subscription option notifies the user before renewing the subscription, so it can be cancelled easily at any time.

[Madox58]

Yup,

Neal Stevens, Subsim
5108 Woodville Lane
Pearland, TX 77584


I could never remember the address. But I can drive there from memory.
:haha:

Last year around Easter I did a drive by scowling.

http://www.emofaces.com/png/200/emoticons/scowling.png

[August]

I'm sending my donation out via snail mail.

:salute:

[Skybird]

Am not sure it could matter, but perhaps this was caused by a donation to Subsim being changed to a "subscription" which automatically gets billed annually unless you cancel it.

Could this be the cause?
I just tried it again to check that out, by now I have my friends paypal data in the back of my head :D, but I find no option to choose between donation and subscription ?! Trying to complete the paypal debiting process again failed: "no debit transactions possible, please link a credit card to your paypal account" (translated from the German).

A banking or email provider, or whatever it is, named snail mail is unknown to me, could find no info on it. And I have no intention to buy or subscribe into just another such service.

It's either paypal, or Visa, but not Visa via paypal, and no third transaction service. What is good enough for so many other shops and service providers, certainly should be good enough for Subsim, too. If not, I fold. It's not as if my money is begging me to leave my purse.

[Jimbuna]

Snail Mail is a term commonly used for surface/letter post :03:

[Skybird]

Oh, my fault.

Money in letters is a no go. Tests with the German mail in 2011 showed that up to one third of such envelopes disappeared.

I am a big fan of cash payment. But only from hand to hand.

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, the reason I went with "subscription" is because the word has SUB in it.

No, not really, it is because the vBulletin forum system works with the Paypal subscription tools to automatically enable the user ranks and forum access for me.

[Webster]

Oh, my fault.

Money in letters is a no go. Tests with the German mail in 2011 showed that up to one third of such envelopes disappeared.

I am a big fan of cash payment. But only from hand to hand.


its always best to put it inside a sheet of paper folded 3 times so you cant see money through the envelope, I never just stick it in by itself or your right it gets nicked

[Skybird]

its always best to put it inside a sheet of paper folded 3 times so you cant see money through the envelope, I never just stick it in by itself or your right it gets nicked
That goes without saying. BTW, the tests showed (they were even on TV) that it is not about seeing, but feeling it with fingertips, and fingernails (!)

Worked with a mail center in the early 90s myself, during university. It was a not-spoken-about open secret that the disappearance rates with parcels also were much higher than what they let the public know. No wonder, there was almost zero security back then, everybody could stroll onto the perimeter, act as if he belonged there,. picked up a parcel, and walk out. Nobody would have asked you. With parcel services now being delegated to sub-contractors by most if not all parcel deliverers, it probably has not become better.


Neal,
if you get your paypal thing fixed, or set up a credit card option, set up a big flashing post announcing it in GT, and I'm sure you will be able to collect some more coins within short time - and mine as well, certainly. Until then, I now let it rest.

[Onkel Neal]

Ok, Sky, I have a special button for you :shucks:

Click here and enter any amount you wish. (http://www.subsim.com/sh2fleet_forms/donation_fundraiser_2013.htm)

That is not a subscription, just a plain donation form. Thanks!

[Feuer Frei!]

Ok, Sky, I have a special button for you :shucks:

Special button for a special person :haha:

[eddie]

No problems here making a donation to Subsim using Paypal. It worked just fine!

[Skybird]

Na bitte, geht doch! ;)

Done.

Even set up own pp account again. :-? Must be true love by me...

[Onkel Neal]

Cheers, Sky, and thanks man! :Kaleun_Cheers:

[Dowly]

I hope you keep that non-sub method even after the fundraiser is over, I like it better. :yep:

[Skybird]

Having gotten the email confirmation by Paypal for the transaction over my "new" account, I just realized that although i signed a new account, they seem to have not formed a new one, but linked the form's data to the old one, and reactivated it.

I note that due to a spelling mistake in my data, which was present in the old one, and now is back in the "new" one.

Point is: back then I erased my banking data from the old pp-account, then send them an email that they should shut down the whole account and delete it, instead of it just hibernating until reactivation.

And they sent a confirmation they would do.

And now this...? :huh:

Just confirms my deep mistrust I have for banks in general, and online payment things in general. You are not master of your own data, you cannot unlist from such services if you want that, and once the genie is out of the bottle, you never get it back into it. Even worse is when your stuff is on foreign servers. You have nothing but their smiling faces to believe in. What really is being done with all that stuff, you have absolutely no clue of.

I have sent them an email with a request for them explaining themselves.

Reminds me of the fingertip scanner in the new iPhone. German authorities are warning against using that function, and the reason has far greater validity: biometric characteristics that can be used for ID-ing you, stick with you for all your life. If you store them carelessly in many foreign places over which you have no control whatever, and use them inflationary, this can badly backfire against you if somebody gets his hands onto them and abuses them criminally. Apple says the fingertip gets stored on the device and the data cannot be accessed. How stupid do they think people are? It will get hacked, of course, and of course criminal energy can get such data out of your handy. And this time you cannot heal the problem by just logging a new email adress or changing all your PINs and codewords.

I do not trust these things. My deep distrust for these digital things is already encoded within my genes. I do not like this new world forming up. And I do not think it is friendly. Being controlled and monitored and personally recorded, is not friendly, but a hostile act meant to control, expose and lock you, defenselessly.

[Mr Quatro]

I know what you mean sky about banking ... some people have no choice except to just go along with whatever they want when they want it.

I had a savings account with an unnamed bank that included keep the change on all my transactions and transferring it to my savings account. The amount came to a couple of hundred dollars a year, but then the bank started charging a fee if you didn't have a minimum of $400 in your savings account.

So I canceled keep the change and they still charged me the fee so I canceled the whole savings account keeping the checking account, with me so far?

Three months go by and they charge me $10 for not having enough in my, by now non excitant, savings account. I called them up and told them that I didn't even have a savings account and she said well you forgot to inform us of this and we charged you anyway ... :o

How about that new subsim fund raiser graphics in the header...
makes me thirst for SHVI :yep:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=165&pictureid=5983 width=

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, that graphic represents the current progress. I may shut the fundraiser down a day early, we are almost there.:up:

Dowly, I will leave the donation page intact, but I will still feature the normal subscription model, it makes everything automatic, and my life easier:cool:

[Skybird]

I know what you mean sky about banking ... some people have no choice except to just go along with whatever they want when they want it.

I had a savings account with an unnamed bank that included keep the change on all my transactions and transferring it to my savings account. The amount came to a couple of hundred dollars a year, but then the bank started charging a fee if you didn't have a minimum of $400 in your savings account.

So I canceled keep the change and they still charged me the fee so I canceled the whole savings account keeping the checking account, with me so far?

Three months go by and they charge me $10 for not having enough in my, by now non excitant, savings account. I called them up and told them that I didn't even have a savings account and she said well you forgot to inform us of this and we charged you anyway ... :o


One thing is for certain: if I ever succeed in turning into a grumpy old man and feeling like wanting to turn my back on all this digital madness they only impose on us in order to make us all easier controllable and governable and expose us in a completely weak and defenseless state towards state and business, I will not just switch off the wire of internet cable and telephone, but will completely shut down all my insurance and bank accounts as well without any "transfer servicing" which is only meant to hand them over the keys to your new life, so to speak. Then i will wait a little while and then start a completely new bank account with a foreign bank, if I still need it.

If they leave us papermoney anyway. Like there was a reason why they enforced us to give up gold-covered value-money for inflationary printed papermoney, there also is a reason why in the EU they are training and psychologically preparing people to give up paper money for digital money next. The answer is this: control. The totally transparent and helpless "citizen" sitting right in the center of the totally unlimited focus of government and business ambitions. Computer and digitalization make it possible. And those craving for power and control and profit, will use what is possible, to maximum effect.

[Dowly]

Dowly, I will leave the donation page intact, but I will still feature the normal subscription model, it makes everything automatic, and my life easier:cool:

Goodie! :salute:

[Skybird]

Yeah, that graphic represents the current progress. I may shut the fundraiser down a day early, we are almost there.:up:

Dowly, I will leave the donation page intact, but I will still feature the normal subscription model, it makes everything automatic, and my life easier:cool:
So I will ask you again for the link next year. :D Makes for a nice new old thread...

[Penguin]

Worked fine for me using debit (German:Lastschrift). Had a credit card tied to paypal once some time ago which is probably expired by now, but today only have a banking account connected to it.

[Onkel Neal]

So I will ask you again for the link next year. :D Makes for a nice new old thread...

I like that idea :)