Convert to Islam, or pay ‘jizya’ tax. Or...die.

[Feuer Frei!]

I just ask that we stay ot and keep it civil :yep:

The Muslim Brotherhood (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/muslim-brotherhood/) and its supporters have began forcing the roughly 15,000 Christian Copts of Dalga village in Egypt (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/egypt/) to pay a jizya tax as indicated in Koran 9:29, author and translator Raymond Ibrahim (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/raymond-ibrahim/) reported on SundaySOURCE (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/10/egypts-muslim-brotherhood-convert-islam-or-pay-jiz/)



Koran 9:29:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbledhttp://quran.com/9/29

[soopaman2]

Great to see the United States sends them money, while money for programs meant to assist American citizens are cut or eliminated.



Great world we live in...

[Tribesman]

I never knew the copts were polytheists, I thought they were Christians.
I suppose it goes back to Alexandria and whether trinitarianism is a heresy or merely ****uf

[soopaman2]

I never knew the copts were polytheists, I thought they were Christians.
I suppose it goes back to Alexandria and whether trinitarianism is a heresy or merely ****uf


Coptics actually go back to early Christianity, before the ideologies were skewed by the schisms and the Papal house becoming political.

They were isolated due to location from religious reforms, and practice it in its purist form.

I feel bad for Coptics, they actually still follow Christ as it was taught to them by apostles themselves, and remained Isolated from the changes man made. They survived thousands of years in a hostile environment. (Convert or die!)

Thier religion is alot closer to judaism, than modern Christianity, Judaism with forgivness for sin kinda.

[Skybird]

I just ask that we stay ot and keep it civil :yep:

SOURCE (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/10/egypts-muslim-brotherhood-convert-islam-or-pay-jiz/)



Koran 9:29:

http://quran.com/9/29

I think you are just an Islamophobe who does not know Islam well enough to judge it, and who only quotes from it what serves his biased prejudices.

:88)



:woot:




:salute:

[Tribesman]

Coptics actually go back to early Christianity, before the ideologies were skewed by the schisms and the Papal house becoming political.

They were isolated due to location from religious reforms, and practice it in its purist form.

I feel bad for Coptics, they actually still follow Christ as it was taught to them by apostles themselves, and remained Isolated from the changes man made. They survived thousands of years in a hostile environment. (Convert or die!)

I would have thought that claim would be more fitting for the arians or nestorians, after all their schisms came before the chalceon and indeed the arians had a thing for john so surely they are the ones who can claim to be following an apostle, unless of course you consider the Nasranis who claim they are following another apostle.
Purest form? according to who?

[Feuer Frei!]

I think you are just an Islamophobe who does not know Islam well enough to judge it, and who only quotes from it what serves his biased prejudices.

:88)



:woot:




:salute:

I assume you are joking, hence the coloured icons

[soopaman2]

I would have thought that claim would be more fitting for the arians or nestorians, after all their schisms came before the chalceon and indeed the arians had a thing for john so surely they are the ones who can claim to be following an apostle, unless of course you consider the Nasranis who claim they are following another apostle.
Purest form? according to who?

Purer than 2000 plus years of the church taking a more political role, than a spiritual role.

Christs kindness became a moneymaker, and has been so for thousands of years.

You think the Papacy pure, or the manipulations that people used in Christs name, the manmade changes, the inquisition, the Borgias? Yeah not the TV show, the real Borgias.

I am an Italian American, crapping on catholics is blasphemy for me. I feel betrayed, especially once I researched on my own how catholocism has changed the word of jesus, to control men to its own devices.

[Skybird]

I assume you are joking, hence the coloured icons
But a small doubt remains, eh? Are you so afraid of conflicts that you try to escape into hopes of me just joking? I must tell you, I mean it bitterly serious, you racist, xenophobic, lie-spreading, war-preaching Islam-hating poor Nazi, you.








:shucks: Noch Fragen?






:D

[Feuer Frei!]

:shucks: Any questions?
Keine Danke :smug:

Just a rebuttal.

The Koran's 9:29 was quoted for all to see since it was mentioned in the article i linked.
It would save the community the added pressures of having to research just why 9:29 was mentioned in the article.

As for a phobia for Islam?

Far from it. Phobia is fear. I neither fear nor trouble my mind with it.
I keep an eye on it. That's it.

No hopes or fears of you joking. Or not :salute:

[Betonov]

Jizya was actually the part of islam that was moraly more advanced than the catholic church. Instead of persecution you were granted religius freedom and an extra tax.

Conversion was not forced upon you, it was sold as a basis for tax deduction.


But this happening in our day and age is simply a step backwards :nope:

[Tribesman]

Purer than 2000 plus years of the church taking a more political role, than a spiritual role.

Christs kindness became a moneymaker, and has been so for thousands of years.

You think the Papacy pure, or the manipulations that people used in Christs name, the manmade changes, the inquisition, the Borgias? Yeah not the TV show, the real Borgias.

I am an Italian American, crapping on catholics is blasphemy for me. I feel betrayed, especially once I researched on my own how catholocism has changed the word of jesus, to control men to its own devices.
I am just wondering why you think pope Tawadros II is so different from pope Francis, pope Theodore II, abunas Mathias, pope Karekin II or even Major archbishop Alencherry?

[Tribesman]

Conversion was not forced upon you, it was sold as a basis for tax deduction.

Yep, forced conversion is banned by their book thingy they are supposed to follow.
Levying dodgy taxes is also banned, and doing any of that in the name of allah is a big one way ticket to a bad judgement in front of the big fellow.:03:

[Skybird]

Betonov,

those who had to pay jizya, were not citizens of equal value, but slaves and second class inferiors who had to be made feeling their inferiority by discriminating them, so that they shall feel the penalty by Allah for refusing him. It was the demand to pay protection money against terror and assassination that the receiver of the protection money else would have brought about the victim by his own hands.

Moral superiority or multi-cultural tolerance has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it. I must remind you that the discrimination of infidels for Muslim males is not voluntary, but a religious obligation, there is some passage in the Quran that leaves no doubt on that. Muslims showing tolerance and kindly live side by side with you, already violate the basic rules of Islam, whether they are aware of it or not. Islam does not know real tolerance and multiculturalism. People of the book my be held as second class people and slaves, all other infidels that are not Jewish or Christian, either have to convert, or must be killed. That'S why I do not take everybody claiming to be Muslim as a Muslim for sure, but take everybody I see as a real Muslim as a supremacist barbar indeed. Thus my hostility towards "real Muslims". The really integrating, humanism-orientated, "liberal" and tolerant "museum-Muslims" (after the term museum-Fremen from Frank Herbert's Dune-novels) that we often meet in Europe, are not representative for what Islam really is about. They are still helping the fundamentalists (the Real Muslims) with their silent passivity by tolerating them, not confronting them, claiming they are not representing Islam, and letting them act and talk on their behalf.

Moral superiority...? Think again. Since you referred to the medieval, let me just say that we have left it behind us since long. The Muslim world intellectually still sticks right in the midst of it. Europe was lagging behind to Arab knowedge in maths, medicine, optics, and some more. But not only have our forefathers closed the gap, but they have overtaken the Islamic world in all regards: technology, science, medicine, theology, philosophy, economy, basic human rights, state theory.

Personally, though i admit that is absolutely a question of perosnal taste, I could not even become friend with the cooking recipes in the ME. :) - that food is not for me, despite the damn warmth over the day the one thing I suffered most from. :woot: I prefer Italian, westernised Chinese, some German cuisine. :yeah:

[Betonov]

Yep, forced conversion is banned by their book thingy they are supposed to follow.
Levying dodgy taxes is also banned, and doing any of that in the name of allah is a big one way ticket to a bad judgement in front of the big fellow.:03:

But the taxes were not in the name of Allah, they were in the name of Sultan.
Every religion has a financial loophole :03:

[nikimcbee]

Buna akhbar!:shucks: There is no Buna but Jim!

I will gladly pay the beer and bacon offering in his hono(u)r.:woot:

[Betonov]

Sky:

Yeah yeah, true. But every citizen or non-citizen was a slave back then to nobility.
The thing is the muslims had a little more civilized way of converting the general populace.

Back then.

[Tribesman]

Moral superiority...? Think again. Since you referred to the medieval, let me just say that we have left it behind us since long.
I could have sworn someone was spouting about their future dreamworld of medieval serfdom recently:rotfl2:

[Jimbuna]

Buna akhbar!:shucks: There is no Buna but Jim!

I will gladly pay the beer and bacon offering in his hono(u)r.:woot:

You may well get a shock when you see the beer bill I'm running up whilst checking this section of the forum :)

[Aktungbby]

Thier religion is alot closer to judaism, than modern Christianity, Judaism with forgivness for sin kinda.
From which we get the expression when reckoning is due at the pearly gate of St P.:Kaleun_Goofy:: To COPT a plea! kinda sorta!

[nikimcbee]

You may well get a shock when you see the beer bill I'm running up whilst checking this section of the forum :)

Anything for you my Lord.:woot:

[Jimbuna]

Anything for you my Lord.:woot:

http://twitpic.com/show/large/bq5vrs (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=73kE7LEOAwRYnM&tbnid=wdTJJcI0_Qw2yM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwicsy.com%2Fi%2FbamE5c&ei=_Ks1UsKjLMSQ7AbblYHgCA&bvm=bv.52164340,d.ZG4&psig=AFQjCNE7SalT3Z7mrcieMoK3Zg3HBPqV6g&ust=1379335544753922)

[Tchocky]

JIZYA tax?


Taxing everything these days...

[soopaman2]

JIZYA tax?


Taxing everything these days...


Back in the day they converted you by force with a sword to the neck.

A few bucks is kind to these people.

Buna Akhbar! :D

[Jimbuna]

Buna Akhbar! :D

Bloody right...pay homage and I expect to see your payment in my bank account tomorrow :)

[Aktungbby]

Bloody right...pay homage and I expect to see your payment in my bank account tomorrow :)
Ach so, A retiree on a short pension with a new hound to feed! Any source of pounds will do! I'm in the same boat. Good shot from The Viking TV special.:arrgh!: