U BOAT Movies...

[Bubblehead1980]

I noticed in Das Boot and The Enemy Below that both Captains were not rabid Nazi's and seemed annoyed with members of their crew that were.My knowledge of the ATO is limited compared to PTO.Just wondering if this was a common real life conflict or more Hollywood revisionism? I can gather not all German's in the military were hardcore Nazis, esp some of the older ones such as Captain in Enemy Below.Just wondering if anyone can shed some light on this.

[AVGWarhawk]

U-boatmen were not part of the Nazi from my understanding.

[Admiral Halsey]

Dönitz did his best to make sure the U-Boat arm was one of the least nazified parts of the German forces. Unfortunately by 43-44 when casualties due to allied ASW grew too high the influx of young Germans who had grown up almost completely under Nazi rule made it the most Nazified of all of the German Armed Forces.(Though the navy on a whole was still the least Nazified of the armed forces.)

[Oberon]

It varied from boat to boat, just like their conduct in war, some would aid survivors from shipping, others would...well...not. Generally speaking though, the uboat arm, by its nature, sporadical contact, hard to keep track of, pretty independent, was one of the least political of the arms. Even in the other arms of the Germany military though, outside of the specialised divisions (SS and such) it was a varied rate of adherence to the political ideals of the regime, but it was harder for it to be openly expressed because of the Gestapo.

You could likely say a similar thing about the Soviets, to be honest.

[Sailor Steve]

This is a German propaganda film made in 1941, and it shows. It's in German and there are no subtitles, but from what I can gather there is no mention of Naziizm in the movie. I could be wrong, of course. If I'm right then that's pretty impressive for a movie made to glorify the Ubootwaffe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmtR9e9IUbA

One thing worth mentioning: Karl Doenitz plays himself. :sunny:

[edit] Sorry about the link. I had it copied and everything, just forgot to paste it. :oops:

[Admiral Halsey]

This is a German propaganda film made in 1941, and it shows. It's in German and there are no subtitles, but from what I can gather there is no mention of Naziizm in the movie. I could be wrong, of course. If I'm right then that's pretty impressive for a movie made to glorify the Ubootwaffe.

One thing worth mentioning: Karl Doenitz plays himself. :sunny:

I think you forgot the link.

[Oberon]

I think you forgot the link.

http://img.radio.cz/pictures/historie/gestapo1.jpg

These gentlemen would like to inform you that there is no link, and more so there has never been a link.
They would like to reassure you that the ubootwaffe are devout followers of Der Fuhrer and any attempts to disassociate them with Nazism are propaganda made by the enemy and should not be listened to.

Thank you for your co-operation.

[Sailor Steve]

I think you forgot the link.
Fixed. Sorry about that.

The Luftwaffe seems to have also been heavily anti Nazi (or at least anti-regime) and stood up to Goering and Hitler under the threat of death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighter_Pilots_Conspiracy

[Sailor Steve]

These gentlemen would like to inform you that there is no link, and more so there has never been a link.
They would like to reassure you that the ubootwaffe are devout followers of Der Fuhrer and any attempts to disassociate them with Nazism are propaganda made by the enemy and should not be listened to.

Thank you for your co-operation.
And the dog proves it!

Right, Winston?

[Stealhead]

U-boatmen were not part of the Nazi from my understanding.


Incorrect.First of all throughout the German armed forces there was never a requirement to be a member of the Nazi party.(excluding the SS) However this does not mean that in every branch of service that there where not card carrying Nazis present.

The U-boat force would have been no different.There where most certainly some members that where Nazi party members or supporters.

Some U-boat commanders where very dedicated Nazis.As a whole though the Kreigsmarine did have the lowest ratio of Nazi party members.

It would be hard to say for sure how many U-boat men where Nazis or pro Nazi just a s it would be hard to say how many US troops where democrats or republicans but you can be sure that some of them where.

In the end it matters little as in the German military as with most others(even the Soviet Army did not require it members to be card carrying communists) the mind set is obeying the orders handed down and completing the assigned mission.

Now the Allies incorrectly thought that the U-boat force was firmly Nazi and they treated POWs with much suspension and assumed that they where all hard core Nazis.This practice was not applied with Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht POWs.

Where some U-boat commanders Nazis?Sure. Where the majority? Most likely not.

That is the one cheesy part about Das Boot the young pro Nazi officer it would not have been that way in real life.The U-boat force had a some what liberal view (by Nazi standards) many of the officers and enlisted men included enjoyed jazz music.If an officer had a pro Nazi view he would have kept it to himself.I understand that political discussions of any kind where discouraged on U-boats.

Of course they where still dedicated fighting men as is plainly evident.

I think when you see films and books written they tend to either favor the wartime Allied view of the U-boat force being mostly Nazi or the opposite as shown in Das Boot that almost none where Nazis.I think the real middle ground was that the subject never came up on a u-boat they just carried out their orders and had no concern about the Nazi party.It would have had little bearing on achieving the mission.

[Sailor Steve]

That is the one cheesy part about Das Boot the young pro Nazi officer it would not have been that way in real life.
That's one of the things I like about the 5-hour 'Uncut' version over the others. In the Theatrical Release and in the Director's Cut we get the impression that he is a hardcore Nazi. Where do we get that impression from? Herr Kaleun says so. We never hear him preach Nazism. He never seems to say anything. In the 'Uncut' version I got the distinct impression that he is nothing more than a confused and somewhat stuffy young man who desperately wants to fit in. He left his stepfather's ranch in Mexico and made his way back to Germany to join the war effort. Why? It looks like he thought it was what he was supposed to do, so he did it because he couldn't think of anything else. He joined the party. Why? Because he thought it was what he was supposed to do. He may have felt that people would like him more if he was in The Party. Now he's on a boat with a commander who doesn't like Nazis, and he's extremely uncomfortable about it. He still doesn't fit in. Nobody seems to like him much, and he doesn't really understand why. He keeps his uniform clean and he shaves every day. It seems to me that makes him feel like he's doing the right thing. He never really talks down to anyone, and we never hear him preach Party politics. Maybe that's because he knows the captain won't like it, but maybe it's because he's not really sure of himself or his choices.

I also noticed that when the going gets rough he keeps his cool and is actually a very good first officer. Maybe all this is me reading in something that isn't there, but to me he never really seems like a True Believer where the Party is concerned. I think this was done to contrast people like the rabid first officer in The Sea Chase, who takes it upon himself to single-handedly slaughter an Australian radio station and brings a world of hurt onto his comrades.

And maybe I just feel sorry for the guy because he reminds me of myself when I was that age.

[Red October1984]

These gentlemen would like to inform you that there is no link, and more so there has never been a link.
They would like to reassure you that the ubootwaffe are devout followers of Der Fuhrer and any attempts to disassociate them with Nazism are propaganda made by the enemy and should not be listened to.

Thank you for your co-operation.

:rotfl2:

Colonel Klink will give his full cooperation...

[Stealhead]

And maybe I just feel sorry for the guy because he reminds me of myself when I was that age.


That is true.To be honest I have only watched the uncut version once so I forgot the added detail.Even in the other cuts he never really says anything pro-Nazi.

[nikimcbee]

I noticed in Das Boot and The Enemy Below that both Captains were not rabid Nazi's and seemed annoyed with members of their crew that were.My knowledge of the ATO is limited compared to PTO.Just wondering if this was a common real life conflict or more Hollywood revisionism? I can gather not all German's in the military were hardcore Nazis, esp some of the older ones such as Captain in Enemy Below.Just wondering if anyone can shed some light on this.

Read Jordan Vause's books "U-Boat Ace" and " "Wolf".

He addresses the subject.

Luth was a true believer. I think Prien was too, but I don't remember. It would have been interesting if Luth had survived the War, to hear his thoughts on the subject, sadly he was killed in the last moments of the War by a German sentry.

[kranz]

Can't give you any titles except for Kretschmer's biography by T.Robertson and the part devoted to the imprisonment in camps in Canada. (trials, murders etc)

[Jimbuna]

It varied from boat to boat, just like their conduct in war, some would aid survivors from shipping, others would...well...not. Generally speaking though, the uboat arm, by its nature, sporadical contact, hard to keep track of, pretty independent, was one of the least political of the arms. Even in the other arms of the Germany military though, outside of the specialised divisions (SS and such) it was a varied rate of adherence to the political ideals of the regime, but it was harder for it to be openly expressed because of the Gestapo.

You could likely say a similar thing about the Soviets, to be honest.

^ +1

I couldn't add much more if anything to that.

[Rhodes]

Another Place Another Time is a good book to also understand the u-boat sailors and their life. Mainly is the autobiography of a LI, the author joined in 41 or 42 the u-boat arm and only served the finals years, so we have a good vision of that era.
It's a good book and fine reading. He also mentions some movies images of the u-boat arm and the reality that he experienced.

We have also several biography's of u-boat commanders, I only read "Teddy" Suren one and Prien book of the attack to Scapa Flow. It has a little of his biography. When I read it, I didn't appear to me that Prien was a nazi believer.

[Jimbuna]

Read Jordan Vause's books "U-Boat Ace" and " "Wolf".

He addresses the subject.

Luth was a true believer. I think Prien was too, but I don't remember. It would have been interesting if Luth had survived the War, to hear his thoughts on the subject, sadly he was killed in the last moments of the War by a German sentry.

You can add Reinhard Hardegen to the above.

[Garion]

I could be wrong as it's a long time since I read the book The Enemy Below, but in that tome the captain was a die hard Nazi. :hmmm:

As I say I might be wrong...

Cheers

Gary

[Bubblehead1980]

I could be wrong as it's a long time since I read the book The Enemy Below, but in that tome the captain was a die hard Nazi. :hmmm:

As I say I might be wrong...

Cheers

Gary

Not sure about the book but in the movie the U Boat Captain is not a Nazi, he makes fun of the young officer(a nazi) to this first officer after the young officer saltues him(did not use the Nazi salute, I assume it was for PC reasons since film was not made that long after WW II)and later while on "silent routine" when everyone is bored, waiting out the Destroyer, the young officer is reading mein kampf, the Captain rolls his eyes and has an annoyed look on his face, included an "eye convo" with his first officer.Along with comments about being tired of the war etc Obviously, he is not fan of the Nazis

[Wolferz]

The dog doesn't look happy or it's totally disinterested.:hmmm:

[Garion]

Not sure about the book but in the movie the U Boat Captain is not a Nazi, he makes fun of the young officer(a nazi) to this first officer after the young officer saltues him(did not use the Nazi salute, I assume it was for PC reasons since film was not made that long after WW II)and later while on "silent routine" when everyone is bored, waiting out the Destroyer, the young officer is reading mein kampf, the Captain rolls his eyes and has an annoyed look on his face, included an "eye convo" with his first officer.Along with comments about being tired of the war etc Obviously, he is not fan of the Nazis

I will try and find my copy of the book, it's in my semi-tidy ( it's a total disaster area in there atm) man-cave out in the back garden.:arrgh!:

Cheers
Gary

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

From what I've read most U-Boat commanders didn't care too much for the Nazis. In Iron Coffins by Herbert A. Werner sometime after the failed 20th of July plot to kill Hitler, the Nazi party tried using political indoctrination in much of the German military most of which met with failure simply because the men that were pick to do this political indoctrination knew nothing about U-Boat life and most of the time got in way, so much so that the person aboard Werner's boat was confined to the aft torpedo room for much of the voyage (or ordeal) from France to Norway.
There is also a story from the A Higher Call in which members of the Gestapo called upon a fighter group on the Eastern Front looking for "Jews in the squadron" the commander said there where none and that theses Gestapo men where wasting their time. Before the Gestapo men left, the commander said "To be careful up there." The Gestapo men replied "Is it really that dangerous?" to which the commander said "No, but you've just pissed off a whole squadron of fighter pilots and I believe that that's your transport sitting on my runway." I'll have to get the book again to remember who said it and what squadron it was but I think it was Günther Lützow of JG3.

[Platapus]

I can highly recommend

Neither Sharks nor Wolves: The men of Nazi Germany's U-boat arm, 1939-1945 by Timothy P. Mulligan.

I wrote a review in this forum on this book.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=192592

[Aktungbby]

Can't give you any titles except for Kretschmer's biography by T.Robertson and the part devoted to the imprisonment in camps in Canada. (trials, murders etc)
If he'd written his own autobiography he wouldn't be "Silent Otto"!:arrgh!: