RAF Typhoons in near clash with Turkish F-16's

[Jimbuna]

Everything turned out well in the end thankfully.


British and Turkish fighter planes nearly clashed over the skies of Cyprus yesterday after two Typhoon Eurofighters scrambled from Akrotiri airbase.

Details remain unclear, but informed sources said the Typhoons, which are part of a total of six aircraft sent to the RAF Akrotiri airbase for possible actions against Syria, flew over the Turkish occupied part of Cyprus to intercept unidentified planes.


http://famagusta-gazette.com/breaking-british-typhoons-in-near-clash-with-turkish-jets-over-cyprus-p20439-69.htm

http://theaviationist.com/2013/09/03/typhoon-vs-tuaf/

[eddie]

Your Government won't allow you to get involved with Syria, so you go after Turkey instead!?!:D

[Oberon]

http://i.qkme.me/3u2qju.jpg

[eddie]

:haha: You guys on the other side of the pond are nuts!!(in a nice way!)

[Jimbuna]

Would be interesting to know what each of the aircraft types were carrying, missile-wise.....both have the capability of carrying the latest technology.

[eddie]

Its funny they are unaware of each other flights, in that they don't communicate to each other what their flight plans are?

[Oberon]

Yeah...Cyprus, it's all a bit...touchy down there, and the Syrian crisis doesn't help much. After all, it was not even twenty years ago that Turkey and Greece almost went to war, and Cyprus is right in the middle of it all.

[Jimbuna]

Some of that has to do with the fact many countries believe the north of the country is under occupation by the Turks.

[Jimbuna]

From the second link in #1



The dispute over the Turkish occupied northern part of Cyprus is reflected by active NOTAMs (Notice To Airmen):

NAVIGATIONAL WARNING TO ALL CONCERNED REFERENCE IS MADE TO TURKISH NOTAM A2652/05 AND WISH TO STATE THAT THE SO-CALLED ERCAN AIRPORT (LCEN) IS AN UNAUTHORISED AIRPORT OPERATING IN THE OCCUPIED BY TURKEY NORTHERN PART OF THE ISLAND OF CYPRUS (CYPRUS AIC A06/02 REFERS). CYPRUS GOVERNMENT AS THE APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY AND THE ONLY RECOGNISED GOVERNMENT HAS NEVER REGISTERED ABBREVIATION CODE LCEN WITH ICAO. THEREFORE THIS CODE AND THIS ILLEGAL AIRPORT SHOULD NOT BE USED. 24 NOV 14:30 2005 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 24 NOV 14:53 2005

[Stealhead]

Would be interesting to know what each of the aircraft types were carrying, missile-wise.....both have the capability of carrying the latest technology.


Well they are both NATO so IFF and their radar would have gone nuts the systems know the radar signatures of various aircraft as well as the signature that each planes radar system emits.The Typhoon is quite a bit more capable than the F-16(though the Turks have some of the best Vipers in the world as well as good pilots) as well being arguably the most capable interceptor in the world.Of course they did not actually encounter each other I think reading the article it was a stretch to call it a near clash the Turks where seeking a bogey not a tango.They would have checked the airspace and evaluated the situation and then acted accordingly.Had they have done all that and nearly engaged I would agree with the title of the article.

Had the Typhoons still have been in the area the turks would have figured out pretty quickly what they where encountering.

[TLAM Strike]

Well the Russians are rotating in a larger force (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2110409&postcount=780) than what is being rotated out of the med now inter NATO jet skirmishes.

Yea I hope this isn't spiraling towards a Fred Thompson level situation.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3948/3kxd.jpg

[Stealhead]

I have the sudden urge to get a reverse mortgage.

[Oberon]

Well the Russians are rotating in a larger force (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2110409&postcount=780) than what is being rotated out of the med now inter NATO jet skirmishes.

Yea I hope this isn't spiraling towards a Fred Thompson level situation.


I don't think we're quite in a Fred Thompson situation just yet, but we're certainly crawling towards a potential Scott Glenn, a very bad quality Scott Glenn at that.

http://imageshack.us/a/img163/1756/4xyg.jpg

[Stealhead]

That is from that short film where a war breaks out between the US and the USSR in the Persian Gulf Looks like it anyway.

[Tchocky]

This is Richard Valeriani for CNN, reporting from the French aircraft carrier Foch, somewhere in the Mediterranean.

[Oberon]

That is from that short film where a war breaks out between the US and the USSR in the Persian Gulf Looks like it anyway.

:yep: Countdown to Looking Glass

[Sailor Steve]

I'm sorry. I don't care how good British pilots may think they are, there is no way a Typhoon

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/03Hawker_Typhoon_MkIB_zpsee76398a.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/SailorSteve/media/03Hawker_Typhoon_MkIB_zpsee76398a.jpg.html)

stands a chance against an F-16. :O:

[Stealhead]

I wonder if they where thinking of Looking Glass the airborne NORAD command and control planes.

Yes they where I just looked it up on youtube at 1 hour 27 minutes it is a very long short film.

You should take a look at First Strike the sequences showing the Air Force and Navy members are real well not really real but the people where not actors they where missilers,pilots and submariners.For example the B-52 pilots have on their line badges which allow you to be on a bases flight line and not have an M-16 in your grill Hollywood would never get that detail.

Kind interesting the US was really worried about the SS-18 back then and the fear that it would allow a devastating first strike.The demo bit is pretty neat but the majority where they talk to experts is fairly interesting as well.

They used some sequences of this film in The Day After.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlPEBROvR9w

[TLAM Strike]

I'm sorry. I don't care how good British pilots may think they are, there is no way a Typhoon

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/03Hawker_Typhoon_MkIB_zpsee76398a.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/SailorSteve/media/03Hawker_Typhoon_MkIB_zpsee76398a.jpg.html)

stands a chance against an F-16. :O:

You're right, to stand a chance against a jet they would need Hawker Sea Furys. :03:

[Oberon]

I wonder if they where thinking of Looking Glass the airborne NORAD command and control planes.

Yes they where I just looked it up on youtube at 1 hour 27 minutes it is a very long short film.

You should take a look at First Strike the sequences showing the Air Force and Navy members are real well not really real but the people where not actors they where missilers,pilots and submariners.For example the B-52 pilots have on their line badges which allow you to be on a bases flight line and not have an M-16 in your grill Hollywood would never get that detail.

Kind interesting the US was really worried about the SS-18 back then and the fear that it would allow a devastating first strike.The demo bit is pretty neat but the majority where they talk to experts is fairly interesting as well.

They used some sequences of this film in The Day After.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlPEBROvR9w

Yeah, I've seen First Strike, you can note with The Day After that they cut from the missile silo interior at a certain point, about where the strike impacts.
The intro to this film is quite well done as well, in fact the whole film itself is quite well made, with real life clips cleverly interwoven with fiction:
http://tu.tv/videos/zdf-tv-docudrama-world-war-3

[Stealhead]

TLC I wonder if that is the same TLC here on American TV.

A friend from the Air Force that I met in Germany who did "IT" work had been stationed at NORAD prior to the NATO unit he a member of in Germany.He said that the MPs and SPs(USAF name for MP) at NORAD where very strict.You had an ID badge that had to be fully visible at all times.If it was covered they would walk up to you with weapon draw and order you to properly ID yourself.

The NATO unit he was a member of was interesting I had to drive him to it once I wont disclose the location but it was very rural and I was not even allowed on the base which is not common for even other military members to be barred any form of access at all it was also subterranean.But when you see that level of security you know that it is very high value asset.Just on any air base they have things pretty tight someone is always watching.Sometimes "God" would call you on the radio and ask why you did something.

[August]

You're right, to stand a chance against a jet they would need Hawker Sea Furys. :03:

He'd be happy with a squadron of Spitfires!
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-0yYCAA3uptw/UQWqw0TBpmI/AAAAAAAAE0A/RKCrMFzenq4/79.leadinggermanpilotrequestsSpitfir%25255B1%25255 D.jpg?imgmax=800

[Tribesman]

Some of that has to do with the fact many countries believe the north of the country is under occupation by the Turks.
Important lesson there.
If you do go to northern Cyprus don't let them stamp your actual passport, as no country apart from Turkey recognises its existence.

[Buddahaid]

You're right, to stand a chance against a jet they would need Hawker Sea Furys. :03:

I do expect to see a couple flying at Reno soon. :sunny::yeah::sunny:

[Betonov]

Important lesson there.
If you do go to northern Cyprus don't let them stamp your actual passport, as no country apart from Turkey recognises its existence.

What happens if I let them do stamp it :hmmm:

[Buddahaid]

What happens if I let them do stamp it :hmmm:

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0S00MqikSlSxD4AZ8L7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTB2Yz BqM3E1BHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDVjE0NgRncG9zAzU-?p=car+off+cliff&vid=6340d765889453b4088cb33957f9e339&l=00%3A49&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.45 57562751353985%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOM QZW9SjjFY&tit=INSANE+-+Ralley+Car+Falling+Off+a+Cliff%21&c=4&sigr=11a0du2jc&pstcat=autos&age=0&fr=yfp-t-745&tt=b

[Jimbuna]

You're right, to stand a chance against a jet they would need Hawker Sea Furys. :03:

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2305/cf5j.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/cf5j.jpg/)


[/URL][URL="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/wf98.jpg/"] (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/4ibb.jpg/)

[Oberon]

What happens if I let them do stamp it :hmmm:

http://filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsU/79806-7628.jpg
"Good luck..."

[Tribesman]

What happens if I let them do stamp it :hmmm:
Border control doesn't accept official documents from a country that doesn't "exist".
It can invalidate your passport, which is why you should have the stamp on a piece of paper which you can throw away afterwards.

[Jimbuna]

Important lesson there.
If you do go to northern Cyprus don't let them stamp your actual passport, as no country apart from Turkey recognises its existence.

I know that was the case in 84 when I honeymooned there but I have an ex colleague with property in Kyrenia who informs me said restriction has been relaxed by the Cypriot authorities.

[Tribesman]

I know that was the case in 84 when I honeymooned there but I have an ex colleague with property in Kyrenia who informs me said restriction has been relaxed by the Cypriot authorities.
Does that easing of restriction mean people can not be turned away at JFK because the stamp invalidates their travel document?
BTW. I hope your friend checked ownership of the property very very carefully. The last peace deal proposal meant current "owners" have to not only hand over the property to its real owners but also pay the back rent since 1974.

[Jimbuna]

I was making reference to travel between the north and south of the island.

The Kyrenia property was built from new on land with no original title or claim of ownership she reckons....rather her than me.

[Tribesman]

....rather her than me.
Yep. Its just something that came up over here when gullible people were going mad for investment properties overseas as the domestic market was blown to ludicrous levels by gullible people.
Though I think N.Cyprus was the worst property investment expo they had out of a very very dodgy bunch. At least with some of the others you could end up actually owning the bit of swamp your luxury apartments were supposed to sit on.

[TLAM Strike]

Looks like two Syrian Su-24s tested the defenses around Cyprus and got chased off by the RAF.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/syrian-warplanes-flee-after-testing-2259425

[CaptainMattJ.]

Well the turkish block 50/52 F-16s are more than a match for a typhoon. Not to mention the fact that assuming the typhoons came out initially on top, the turks have hundreds of ready aircraft. It would've been both a disaster for the RAF and a disaster for overall relations.

[Stealhead]

More than a match for a Typhoon? Perhaps the WWII aircraft with that same name made by Hawker but the Typhoon made by Eurofighter Fighter aircraft GmbH? No.

The Typhoon has quite a few distinct advantages.

We are talking a flight of aircraft(4 UK) vs. an element(2 TUR) as well the fact that Turkey has many other aircraft has little relevance in the direct equation.

It would not have come to that anyway one or the other would have figured the error and nothing would have happened.

But 4 Typhoons vs. 2 F-16C/D block 50/52 much would have to be in the favor of the Vipers if all where fully intent on combat and it was on like Donkey Kong for them to light up and take down 4 Typhoons
and not suffer any lose them selves or even win the engagement at all.For starters the Typhoons have a much greater engagement range.A real 4 vs 2 the Vipers best bet would be to break contact and run for home.

The Viper is a good aircraft but against something like a Typhoon it would be out of its element.

[Jimbuna]

Looks like two Syrian Su-24s tested the defenses around Cyprus and got chased off by the RAF.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/syrian-warplanes-flee-after-testing-2259425

A risky tactic but 14 miles air exclusion zone doesn't sound like a lot.

Any idea what stand-off weapons (if any) and their ranges?

[Jimbuna]

More than a match for a Typhoon? Perhaps the WWII aircraft with that same name made by Hawker but the Typhoon made by Eurofighter Fighter aircraft GmbH? No.

The Typhoon has quite a few distinct advantages.

We are talking a flight of aircraft(4 UK) vs. an element(2 TUR) as well the fact that Turkey has many other aircraft has little relevance in the direct equation.

It would not have come to that anyway one or the other would have figured the error and nothing would have happened.

But 4 Typhoons vs. 2 F-16C/D block 50/52 much would have to be in the favor of the Vipers if all where fully intent on combat and it was on like Donkey Kong for them to light up and take down 4 Typhoons
and not suffer any lose them selves or even win the engagement at all.For starters the Typhoons have a much greater engagement range.A real 4 vs 2 the Vipers best bet would be to break contact and run for home.

The Viper is a good aircraft but against something like a Typhoon it would be out of its element.

I have to agree and add that since Akrotiri is currently overflowing with US and French aircraft also, any future engagement would bring a seriously heavy response.

[Oberon]

The Turks aren't stupid, they've got enough on their hands with Assad, this was a storm in a tea cup really. Although the Syrians probing Cypress is an interesting turn. Hope it's not in preparation for Assad doing something stupid because an attack on an RAF base, no matter who is using it, would likely drag us into any war with Syria.

In regards to the F-16 vs Eurofighter...well...

http://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/f16gun03.png

Although to be fair, exercise kills are pretty worthless unless the ROE is known, although this is a very interesting picture:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/mt/flightglobalweb/blogs//the-dewline/ea18g_f22kill.jpg
(http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/mt/flightglobalweb/blogs//the-dewline/ea18g_f22kill.jpg)

[Herr-Berbunch]

Thanks for that Jamie, that link led me on to this Sidewinder working principles (for 5 year olds)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dr6vUL2ThDQ

[TLAM Strike]

A risky tactic but 14 miles air exclusion zone doesn't sound like a lot.

Any idea what stand-off weapons (if any) and their ranges?
The Su-24 can carry Russian missiles with ranges of 60 miles or greater. They can carry AS-9, AS-11, and AS-17.

[Oberon]

Thanks for that Jamie, that link led me on to this Sidewinder working principles (for 5 year olds)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dr6vUL2ThDQ

:har::har::har: That is brilliant! :up:

[Jimbuna]

The Su-24 can carry Russian missiles with ranges of 60 miles or greater. They can carry AS-9, AS-11, and AS-17.

The 14 mile exclusion zone is of little significance then :)

[Catfish]

I'm sorry. I don't care how good British pilots may think they are, there is no way a Typhoon

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/03Hawker_Typhoon_MkIB_zpsee76398a.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/SailorSteve/media/03Hawker_Typhoon_MkIB_zpsee76398a.jpg.html)

stands a chance against an F-16. :O:


Look ! They are coming back (unharmed) :O:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/penaeus/03Hawker_Typhoon_MkIB_zps2d7e14c9.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/penaeus/media/03Hawker_Typhoon_MkIB_zps2d7e14c9.jpg.html)

[Stealhead]

The Turks aren't stupid, they've got enough on their hands with Assad, this was a storm in a tea cup really. Although the Syrians probing Cypress is an interesting turn. Hope it's not in preparation for Assad doing something stupid because an attack on an RAF base, no matter who is using it, would likely drag us into any war with Syria.

In regards to the F-16 vs Eurofighter...well...



Although to be fair, exercise kills are pretty worthless unless the ROE is known, although this is a very interesting picture:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/mt/flightglobalweb/blogs//the-dewline/ea18g_f22kill.jpg
(http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/mt/flightglobalweb/blogs//the-dewline/ea18g_f22kill.jpg)

It would have been a good example of facing a different platform.Still Going with the tangibles the EF Typhoon has higher agility and it also has the infrared sensor which gives them a big AOA advantage with IR missiles.The Turkish F-16s do not have this and they may not even have been the latest fully kitted out block 50/52 models either.

[Jimbuna]

It would have been a good example of facing a different platform.Still Going with the tangibles the EF Typhoon has higher agility and it also has the infrared sensor which gives them a big AOA advantage with IR missiles.The Turkish F-16s do not have this and they may not even have been the latest fully kitted out block 50/52 models either.

Agreed....so at least one up to the RAF but in reality....it won't happen.