Watch out my brothers of color...

[Wolferz]

Using the N word is now considered illegal even among your own...

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/ny-case-puts-n-word-use-among-blacks-on-trial

[vienna]

The key words here are "hostile and discriminatory". The use of any abusive language in the workplace, whether racially charged or simply profanity, is by any measure, creating a hostile workplace. The discriminatory facet is a bit more nuanced: there is, and has been, a very derogatory meaning to the "N" word among African-Americans. I recall, from as early as childhood, how some African-Americans would use the term as a derision or denigration towards those of their race they felt were presenting or acting in a manner casting a negative light of fellow African-Americans in much the same way as light-skinned African-Americans were sometimes derisively referred to as "high yellows" by members of their own race...

There is possibly a time and a place for the use of racially charged language, but the workplace isn't one of them. The double standard regarding the "N" word is a reality; the African-American society will have to sort out it out amongst themselves. In this case, I believe the decision is, of a whole, a proper one...


<O>

[CaptainMattJ.]

$280,000 for yelling at someone and using the N word. So much for the 8th amendment :roll:.

[Sailor Steve]

What does the Eighth Amendment have to do with this?

[vienna]

$280,000 for yelling at someone and using the N word. So much for the 8th amendment :roll:.


Doesn't apply here: the judgement was by a jury finding guilt and assessing damages and not a fine payable to the U.S. government. This is just basically a damages case and the jury is allowed to set the amount of damages. If a government agency, say the EEOC, had fined the offenders, then perhaps a case could be made for 8th Amendment protections. However, even then, if the fine was intended to punish and deter not only the original offenders, but, also, those who may offend in the future, what may seem as a rather large "unreasonable" fine may be allowed for the purposes of deterence. Also, in some cases, a smaller fine or judgement against a very large and wealthy offender really wouldn't have the intended purpose of punishing and deterring; a $1,000 fine or judgement isn't going to be a blip on the radar of, say, a multi-national financial insitution and make them change their ways; a $1,000,000 fine or judgement is definitely going to get their attention...


<O>

[Platapus]

$280,000 for yelling at someone and using the N word.

For almost 300K you can call me any name you want in the book. :yep:

A four minute rant? Guess this person never went to basic training. :haha:

[CaptainMattJ.]

Doesn't apply here: the judgement was by a jury finding guilt and assessing damages and not a fine payable to the U.S. government. This is just basically a damages case and the jury is allowed to set the amount of damages. If a government agency, say the EEOC, had fined the offenders, then perhaps a case could be made for 8th Amendment protections. However, even then, if the fine was intended to punish and deter not only the original offenders, but, also, those who may offend in the future, what may seem as a rather large "unreasonable" fine may be allowed for the purposes of deterence. Also, in some cases, a smaller fine or judgement against a very large and wealthy offender really wouldn't have the intended purpose of punishing and deterring; a $1,000 fine or judgement isn't going to be a blip on the radar of, say, a multi-national financial insitution and make them change their ways; a $1,000,000 fine or judgement is definitely going to get their attention...


<O>
I understand the 8th doesn't actually apply in this scenario but the principal that this guy had to pay 280,000 dollars to a woman for yelling slurs at her is, to me, unfair punishment. To my knowledge this isnt a multi-million dollar corporation that has systemic employee abuse and mistreatment, its just some guy going off an a worker. Im not saying that she should've been able to sue but $280,000 is a pretty absurd sum for an insulting rant.

[NeonSamurai]

I have more than a few friends who would be extremely offended if ever called that word. It may have been appropriated by certain black cultures, that used frequently, and even endearingly, but the word is still one of the most offensive in the English language.

Anyhow in this case, it does not sound like it was being used as a term of endearment.

[Armistead]

I think the word "N word" is more offensive than the actual word. It's like saying it without saying it and each time it's used, the word goes through our mind.

Banning words is silly, but I don't have a problem if racial intent can be implied if the word is used in a crime or work place abuse. The problem is use of words can be grey and many love lawsuits. Are we gonna replace Cracker with the C word, ect.

Much is he same with gay groups wanting to ban what is spoken in churches as gay hate speech, because most churches open their door to the public..Doubt that will ever pass, because it's your choice.

[CaptainMattJ.]

I have more than a few friends who would be extremely offended if ever called that word. It may have been appropriated by certain black cultures, that used frequently, and even endearingly, but the word is still one of the most offensive in the English language.

Anyhow in this case, it does not sound like it was being used as a term of endearment.
It is put upon a pedestal as a word that in the wrong situation as one of the most offensive words in the english language, when in reality its not anymore offensive as a number of other words that describe any other race.

[Wolferz]

"Insult can't be given unless taken"

This makes the recipient as equally guilty as the offender.

According to the story, derogatory language in any form that is aimed at anyone in the workplace is now considered taboo.
It's a pity. There are numerous employers I could have sued.:stare:

@ Platapus,
Drill instructors are no longer allowed to speak to recruits the way they used to when you and I went through basic. In fact, they hand out stress cards to the noobs to hold up in the air if they feel overwhelmed. Then the drills must stop the training activity to get the troopie calmed down and sorted out.
Yeah, I know, it's sad really.

I guess I was fortunate in the sense that I wasn't an 18 year old kid then and the drills never found an excuse to plant a brim on my forehead and spit in my face while screaming at me. My fellow troopies never learned the secret because they never asked.:haha:
Three simple words would douse a drill's fuse before he/she exploded... " No excuse Sergeant!":rock:

[Takeda Shingen]

"Insult can't be given unless taken"

One of those blanket statements that people use as a cover so that they can be as rude and offensive as they like. As if the target of the insult is guilty for the behavior of the one doing the insulting. They tend to be the kind of people that don't get invited over for dinner.

[Armistead]

"Insult can't be given unless taken"

This makes the recipient as equally guilty as the offender.

According to the story, derogatory language in any form that is aimed at anyone in the workplace is now considered taboo.
It's a pity. There are numerous employers I could have sued.:stare:

@ Platapus,
Drill instructors are no longer allowed to speak to recruits the way they used to when you and I went through basic. In fact, they hand out stress cards to the noobs to hold up in the air if they feel overwhelmed. Then the drills must stop the training activity to get the troopie calmed down and sorted out.
Yeah, I know, it's sad really.

I guess I was fortunate in the sense that I wasn't an 18 year old kid then and the drills never found an excuse to plant a brim on my forehead and spit in my face while screaming at me. My fellow troopies never learned the secret because they never asked.:haha:
Three simple words would douse a drill's fuse before he/she exploded... " No excuse Sergeant!":rock:

Now Now, much better to teach hard life lessons with stress cards and giving everyone an award, that way they're no losers and my low self esteem isn't further effected.

[eddie]

New recruits should watch "Full Metal Jacket" if they want to see what my boot camp experience was like!

[Wolferz]

One of those blanket statements that people use as a cover so that they can be as rude and offensive as they like. As if the target of the insult is guilty for the behavior of the one doing the insulting. They tend to be the kind of people that don't get invited over for dinner.

Yup and it was relayed to me by my supply sergeant who got it from a shrink.

Basically, if someone tries to insult you, ignore it and it will go away as soon as they see that they didn't get the response they were looking for.

As for dinner in Allentown. Thanks but no thanks.:D

[donna52522]

Are we gonna replace Cracker with the C word, ect.

The C-Word is already taken :O:

[Takeda Shingen]

Yup and it was relayed to me by my supply sergeant who got it from a shrink.

Basically, if someone tries to insult you, ignore it and it will go away as soon as they see that they didn't get the response they were looking for.

Actions have consequences, so as long as you are fine with that, then flap the lip. Otherwise, don't whine about what people do when you shoot the mouth off. If you're trying to piss someone off, don't get all whiny when somebody takes offense to a blatantly offensive statement.

As for dinner in Allentown. Thanks but no thanks.:D

I think you misunderstand. I wasn't inviting you. I have no desire to meet you in real life. You do not seem the type of person that I enjoy associating with. We will never meet in real life. Period.

I hope that this is clearer for you.

[Ducimus]

I'll just leave this here:
George Carlin - They are only WORDS! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUvdXxhLPa8)

[Wolferz]

I'll just leave this here:
George Carlin - They are only WORDS! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUvdXxhLPa8)


George Carlin and I would get along.:D:up:

[Webster]

Using the N word is now considered illegal even among your own...


as it should be

there is no place for that word to be used by anyone anytime ever!

[Wolferz]

Actions have consequences, so as long as you are fine with that, then flap the lip. Otherwise, don't whine about what people do when you shoot the mouth off. If you're trying to piss someone off, don't get all whiny when somebody takes offense to a blatantly offensive statement.



I think you misunderstand. I wasn't inviting you. I have no desire to meet you in real life. You do not seem the type of person that I enjoy associating with. We will never meet in real life. Period.

I hope that this is clearer for you.

:haha: The feeling is mutual.
I have but one question in response....
Why so serious?
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/Wolferz_2007/gibbsslap.jpg

[Ducimus]

Most of us will never meet in person, and I think most of us are not like others think we are. Online persona's and all that. Ninety percent (if i have the number right) of communication is non-verbal.

[Takeda Shingen]

:haha: The feeling is mutual.
I have but one question in response....
Why so serious?
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/Wolferz_2007/gibbsslap.jpg

Again, you misread. You seemed to take my off-hand comment as an invitation to dinner, or retraction thereof. As such, I explained to you in the simplest and most repetitive terms possible that this was not the case. I feel no animosity toward you. Animosity would require that I care about you as a person and place weight on your view of me. This is simply not the case. You, to me, are a random person on an internet full of random people, as I am no doubt to you.

Why you have decided that we should do this ridiculous dance is a mystery to me, but perhaps you are getting something out of it. If that is the case, then more power too you.

[Wolferz]

as it should be

there is no place for that word to be used by anyone anytime ever!

Welcome to San Angeles. Mind your language.

Now they'll invent the Department of Language Enforcement to monitor everything we say and fine us for every infraction.
@#$%^&*(**&&^^%%$$#@@@^&*()_

Now I'm broke and can't dine at Taco Bell.:timeout:

[Aktungbby]

'Kaffir', a south African import, will do nicely used by randy people on a randy forum; Could'nt get past the use of the 'N' word amongst the brothers to each other as I was so careful myself, being a minority in that particular worksite...and wouldn't consider doing so in the first place as my mom sent me to an expensive charm school back in the day. "My coffee and the daily, Jeeves"! :arrgh!:

[Armistead]

as it should be

there is no place for that word to be used by anyone anytime ever!

But in that is the slippery slope, you start banning words, then books, then history. The fact is a person has the constitutional right to be racist if he pleases.

The problem is the double standard, where the word is used commonly by black entertainers. The fact is numerous white teens now use it in the same endearing way, calling their pals,,,,ni...... Black entertainment has made the word mainstream on one hand, then we want to sue people with it on the other hand. One can watch TV and hear it constantly, it's in most black music.

You pick a word and ban it by law, it opens the legal right to start banning any word that offends. It also leads to the stupidity of changing or abbreviating the word into "N word". I can see the future where I have to refer to Wolferz as the S word.

Again, I do believe race crimes exist, have no problem if people can prove it in a crime, but as far as personal or non criminal use, people have the right to say what they please.

I'm sure lawyers and politicians would love us to start banning words, allowing fines, lawsuits and jail, so much money to be made and another way of controlling peoples lives.

[August]

I don't know about banning words but I do think that insults should not be excused because of the insulters skin color..

[Tribesman]

as it should be

there is no place for that word to be used by anyone anytime ever!

I don't know about banning words but I do think that insults should not be excused because of the insulters skin color..
As someone pointed out in a posted link, it's all about context.

[vienna]

You speak of drill sargeants and basic training as a toughening experience...

Try spending your childhood in the hands of an old-fashioned Dickensian Catholic school with nuns who would have sent those DIs running and screaming. In my school, the nuns belonged to an order called the BVM for "Blessed Vingin Mary"; we students used to tell outsiders BVM stood for "Black Veiled Monsters"...

I once worked for a water utility here in Los Angeles in the 1980s. I was in the position of easing the transition from large mainframe computing to the newer PC based systems. My work often required I work in what would be normally "off hours" so as to either not interfere with normal business operations or have the normal business operation interfere with my projects. I had rather flexible hours and was given broad leeway with work dress. I tended towards rather casual clothing...

One day, I came into work at about 10:30 or so in the morning and was dressed in black jeans, black shirt, black boots and a black leather cycle jacket. To this was added my customary shades. As I walked down the main hallway, I passed a rather tense looking man who was striding down the hallway with serious intent. After I had gotten a few yards past him, I suddenly heard a loud voice shout "You!!". I stopped, turned around and saw the man had stopped and was pointing a finger at me. He strode rapidly towards me, and stopped nearly forehead to forehead with me. He looked just like a DI and had the same posture and attitude. He barked out "Who are you and why are you here? Do you work here?" Looking at his central casting appearance and style, I just burst out in laughter. This did not endear me to him. He made his demand again and between fits of laughter, I told him, yes, I worked there. He asked who I worked for and I told him I reported directly to the CFO. He got a strange grin on his face and said "We'll see how much longer you work here!", turne on his heel and marched off down the hall. I later told the CFO of my encounter and he said he had heard from the man, who turned out to be the newly hired Human Resources Director, and, yes, he was a former Marine DI and lifer. When the Director had come to the CFO to basically order my firing, the CFO informed I was vital to the new operations and couldn't be touched (which was news to me) or, as the CFO put it "No him, no computers". Crushed in his attempt to press his vision of what a proper office and employye(s) should be, he spent his remaining time sneering and snarling at me whenever or paths crossed. I say remaining time becasuse his time was short lived: he had hired a person to fill a position in the accounting department based soley on his "gut" and the applicants masterful self-presentation as a former gung-ho Army vet. The new hire some months later broke into the offices after hours and stole a substantial amount of cash from the accounting vault. When an investigation was done of the perp, it was found the person was not only not a vet, but was a rather much sought after con-woman who had an extensive record in several states. The Director, based on his "gut" and admiration for a fellow "vet" had not done any background checks before hiring. The Director was let go for incompetence; I stayed on for a number of years until the company decided to move its offices to a far away suburb and I decided not to follow...

<O>

[Stealhead]

I know some guys that have the marks from rulers getting whacked across their hands by those mean old nuns.One guy whose father was a submariner during WWII into the 50's said that he got in trouble so often that a top his head you could find the USN submarine badge (the one with the two dolphins) because his dad would whack him on the head and the ring left the impression.

[vienna]

The BVMs were a particularly nasty bunch. I saw a nun take a solid oak backboard pointer and hit a kid's palm so hard the pointer broke. Another nun used to keep a supply of those hard felt blackboard erasers on her desk: if you daydreamed or were otherwise not paying attention, she whould throw an eraser full force at your head. She had a very good, major league qualtity, arm and an unerring aim. like you father, I started out in Catholic school in the 50s and finished up in the mid-60s. It was right after I left that the Church made reforms regarding disciplining of students...

<O>

[Stealhead]

Good thing I did not go to Catholic school of course by my time they had been reformed for a few years.

I sometimes work with a man from Connecticut originally he is very good at general contract work.Unfortunately he has had some very serious drug abuse problems in his lifetime.He went to old school Catholic education.He basically had ADHD and was very disruptive so they gave him Phenobarbital which of of course made him seek stronger drugs and he has had problems with crack in the past.This guy he can hardly sit still must of the time which I found out is a side effect of Phenobarbital use and I am sure also damage from drug abuse.A shame really because this man is highly intelligent if he ahd been in a better environment he would have had a very successful life.

Anyway I pretty much was always daydreaming in grade school.What I used to hate the most was group reading because I was much faster than my peers and to have to sit and hear some kid stammer though a simple paragraph was very annoying to me.Not because I disliked the kid but because I disliked that he was getting put on the spot for no real reason when he could have read in silence to himself much more effectively.Of course you always had the kid in class that read aloud all the time that kid deserved an eraser to the dome.My luck was that that kid always sat by me but I also always had thumb tacks for him to sit upon.

[Wolferz]

A pair of scissors, me and the kid in front of me were a bad combination in first grade. Many fist fights over my barber talents ensued when the teacher was out of the room.

I feel for you Catholic school boys. You'd think that the brides of Christ would be a little more forgiving.:hmmm:

[Stealhead]

I think it must have had something to do with sexual frustration the nuns I mean.

In kindergarten this girl in my class took something or other from me and she said I had make her give it back so I tried all the kid tricks,Indian burn all that no success.So I bit her arm that worked and also got me sent to the office luckily the girl explained the situation so I did not get in much trouble.

My best exploit was in 7th grade our school had 7th to 12th all together and this 12th grader who was legally an adult kept messing with me and the other kids.I said in class "one day someone is going to flak:hmm2: you up" and he jumped up and grabbed me and pulled his fist back so I took that Star Trek book and whacked him across the face so hard it broke his nose.Well that was not my plan but he did get flacked up as I had promised.He came pretty close (after making threats against me) to getting flacked up by a Vietnam vet and ex Ranger as well but the gentlemanly encounter he had with my father made him realize that he did not want to see the nasty side if the lanky son can do so much damage with a book it makes you think about what dad can do.