night surface attacks...

[c13Garrison]

I'm discovering I can attack on the surface at night, so long as the water is licking the lip of my conning tower. If I set depth to 29 feet I seem to not be visible above 1200 yards.

Now of course, I have to be stationary completely, but at least it is possible.

And I'm having to use about 50% more torpedoes Bubbs, so your mod is definitely having an effect. No duds (maybe a couple deeps but I don't know for sure) on the Mk 10's yet, but the warhead yield is certainly less. I'm assuming its the historically accurate result you were going for!

TMO/RSRD

[Bubblehead1980]

I'm discovering I can attack on the surface at night, so long as the water is licking the lip of my conning tower. If I set depth to 29 feet I seem to not be visible above 1200 yards.

Now of course, I have to be stationary completely, but at least it is possible.

And I'm having to use about 50% more torpedoes Bubbs, so your mod is definitely having an effect. No duds (maybe a couple deeps but I don't know for sure) on the Mk 10's yet, but the warhead yield is certainly less. I'm assuming its the historically accurate result you were going for!

TMO/RSRD

I'll ask Armistead if can send you the darker nights mod, it makes realistic night surface attacks possible.Can be on the surface, no decks awash and attack and get away.Once alerted though, spotlights get on you.RUN. lol It's great, a big piece of the game that was missing for a long time.Can actually get inside a DD screen at night now as so many skippers did.Of course moonlight etc matters.Definitely gets blood pumping when you have an escort 1000 yards ahead and 1000 yards behind and youve moved in as part of the screen, slowing slipping inside and turn to attack then rush out before torpedoes hit and they throw spotlights on me.

Hmm i actually didnt adjust the yield in V1 since I use Longer Sinking Times for TMO which sinks ships by flooding and compartment damage, not hitpoints. I sink large freighters with one well placed Mark 14 at times. Without the LST mod game sinks ships by hitpoints mostly. I think the higher number of torpedoes comes from the duds, prematures etc?

Yes, I was aiming for that result , to be historically accurate and you should have a patrol where torpedoes rarely premature, just depends.I can tell you that as sub skippers discovered, having torpedoes impact at smaller angles lead to less duds.The classic standard 90 degree shot was avoided.Setting up so torpedoes make a "glancing" blow is not as easy, esp on escorted ships but it'll bring the dud rate down.I made it where impact angles absolutely matter when it comes to duds.

[c13Garrison]

Well over about 9 patrols (2 careers, was about to start writing up the first when he died) I've fired about 80 Mk 10's with your mod. About 15-20 have missed for either bad solution or deep running, but of the others I have had Zero duds. The mk 10 seems a fine torpedo, it just doesn't hit as hard. I have also fired a single mk 14 (game autoloaded it, so I kept one just to try it) and its magnetic exploder worked perfectly.

I also use LST & the realistic Fire mod.

[Bubblehead1980]

Well over about 9 patrols (2 careers, was about to start writing up the first when he died) I've fired about 80 Mk 10's with your mod. About 15-20 have missed for either bad solution or deep running, but of the others I have had Zero duds. The mk 10 seems a fine torpedo, it just doesn't hit as hard. I have also fired a single mk 14 (game autoloaded it, so I kept one just to try it) and its magnetic exploder worked perfectly.

I also use LST & the realistic Fire mod.


The Mark 10 as far as I know had no dud issues, so i removed the dud factors from mark 10.Did not have magnetic exploder so not a factor.Does have issues running slightly deeper than set.

Well firing one Mark 14 does not mean they will work.

I use LST and fire mod also.Mark 10 is a decent torpedo but does lack the same punch as the others.

[Admiral Halsey]

What is this darker nights mod you speak of?

[Bubblehead1980]

What is this darker nights mod you speak of?


Makes the nights darker(far too light, even without a moon by default) which enables escorts and merchants to spot sub far too easily, which makes realistic night surface attacks nearly impossible.With the nights darker, player can close to 2000 yards which was ideal range in night surface attack.I've been able to get inside the escort screen, pass 1000 yards off a veteran escort(in testing , knew their skill leve) of course your profile, speed, moonlight etc are factors, becomes a judgement call. Just enables you to pull off attacks much as they really did since subs were extremely difficult to see at night on the surface.Adds a whole new element to the game.

Again, adds the unknown factor.Nothing like getting withing 1900 yards of a convoy on surface, firing torpedoes, turning away at flank speed, fish hit, escorts throw spotlight on you, youre running away, they are gunning, you are running but then there are times they dont spot you(as in RL) . Adds more realism as player cant see ships at night 8 miles away, can usually start to make out blurbs on the merchants at about 4,500 yards, lookouts see them a bit before. Definitely makes things more interesting.

[Admiral Halsey]

Considering I almost never attack with torpedoes unless forced to before 44(When all the merchants get something bigger then an AA gun.) This would be perfect for me. Where do I download it?

[Rockin Robbins]

I've always enjoyed standard TMO flooded down surface attacks. They can get pretty challenging.

[Armistead]

I've always enjoyed standard TMO flooded down surface attacks. They can get pretty challenging.


I think many like the ability to do night surface attacks and actually escape on the surface. The trick or concern, what is a reasonable range to pull off a surface attack, be able to turn out and escape without being seen? Course, many factors come into play.

[TorpX]

I think subs were able to get in pretty close, when conditions were ideal. But how often are they ideal? Do you make tests during periods of a new moon? I would think this would give you the best conditions for this type of attack.

[Armistead]

I think subs were able to get in pretty close, when conditions were ideal. But how often are they ideal? Do you make tests during periods of a new moon? I would think this would give you the best conditions for this type of attack.


It's not really the size of the moon that counts in the game, but the light value. Simply, light is the same quarter or full moon, least I can tell lil to no difference. Obvious, you can get closer with no moon.

You can go about it a few ways, but because several of the sim values effect day as well as night, I feel it's better to adjust the env files more than sim files, although you have to tweak them some.

What I made is more to Bubbles liking and I've only done mild testing. As long as I don't make mistakes, I can get within 800 yards of a competent escort with moon out. You do have to keep narrow and slow. A vet escort lights me up at about 1200 yards. That may be too close with the moon out, but makes for some nervous attacks trying to weave through a screen.

I was thinking probably about 1500 yards for a competent escort with moon out. I cut off all the searchlights on merchants and capital ships, so if you do get through, you can attack and get out without being lit up. Course, when torps hit escorts will light up and start looking. Realistically, I don't see merchants or capital ships lighting themselves up, it just broadcast where they are and makes it easy in game to get a stad on them.

The one thing I like is you about need the moon behind enemy to get good stad readings.

[TorpX]

It's not really the size of the moon that counts in the game, but the light value. Simply, light is the same quarter or full moon, least I can tell lil to no difference. Obvious, you can get closer with no moon.


I don't really understand how the game works, but the phase of the moon should make a difference in light. Maybe it's one of those things that's borked.

Anyway, sounds like you got it to work pretty good. 800 to 1200 yds. for a competent escort seems reasonable.

[Armistead]

I don't really understand how the game works, but the phase of the moon should make a difference in light. Maybe it's one of those things that's borked.

Anyway, sounds like you got it to work pretty good. 800 to 1200 yds. for a competent escort seems reasonable.


From what I can tell, it really doesn't, but yes it should.